The Linux Counter Relaunches

A few suggestions for the new maintainer by jawtheshark · 2011-09-10 01:32 · Score: 5, Insightful

I have an account and log in once a year, when I get my reminder email. Usually, I have quite a lot to update: decommissioned machines, upgraded machines, new machines and that's only for my personal machines. They have a script which uses sendmail to update your information. That's unacceptable in a desktop setting. What they should have is a simple, but relatively robust update system like freedns.afraid.org uses. If on top of that they can package their updating script and convince major distros to carry it as an opt-in for default installations, it could get some accurate stats.

--
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)

Re:A few suggestions for the new maintainer by BrokenHalo · 2011-09-10 02:35 · Score: 1

They have a script which uses sendmail to update your information. That's unacceptable in a desktop setting.
If you think about it, back in those days most distros that I'm aware of included sendmail by default, so it sort of makes sense to use what was there.
Re:A few suggestions for the new maintainer by cobbaut · 2011-09-10 02:53 · Score: 1

Same here, mod parent insightful!

--
European Linux user, living in Antwerp
Re:A few suggestions for the new maintainer by jawtheshark · 2011-09-10 04:00 · Score: 1

Yes, absolutely. I understand where they come from. Every year, when I got my reminder email, I checked if they modernized the automatic script system. It stayed the same old one, always. Fine back when they started, not fine for at least the last five years. My post was mostly intended as constructive criticism, not to bash them. I do think the Linux Counter Project is a worthwhile initiative, but there is serious potential for amelioration.

--
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Re:A few suggestions for the new maintainer by hduff · 2011-09-10 06:41 · Score: 1

The script works just fine using a properly configured /etc/nail.rc file and /bin/mail on my Mandriva system.
If you use GMail like I do, some special configuration is needed:
set smtp=smtp.gmail.com:587
set smtp-use-starttls
set from=USERNAME@gmail.com
set smtp-auth-user=USERNAME
set auth-login=USERNAME
set smtp-auth-password=PASSWORD
You may need to provide a link to /usr/bin/sendmail if /etc/alternatives does not already do that.

--
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
Re:A few suggestions for the new maintainer by Baloo+Uriza · 2011-09-10 10:28 · Score: 1

Why not just fix your desktop's MTA so it forwards someplace where it can reach you and the outside world?

--
Furries make the internet go.
Re:A few suggestions for the new maintainer by Taty'sEyes · 2011-09-10 13:17 · Score: 1

I agree completely. The first thing I saw was, download this script which will use sendmail to tell us all about you. I haven't used sendmail since '05 and I don't want to set it up just to let them know I'm using linux. I mean if google can tell everything about my computer from the web, why can't LiCo? More and more people use linux and some will look at you with a blank stare when you say sendmail.

--
We show geeks how to get their dream girl at EyesOfOdessa.com
Re:A few suggestions for the new maintainer by marcosdumay · 2011-09-10 14:54 · Score: 1

Almost all distros install an MTA by defaul. Also, almost no distro set it by default in a configuration that would make that script work. On most computers setting the MTA for that isn't even a wise thing to do.
I'd be happy if the counter provided an HTTP based script. It could use the same code, just need to create a page that gets the POST data and gives it to the code that currently parses the emails.

--
Rethinking email
Re:A few suggestions for the new maintainer by Dark$ide · 2011-09-11 01:22 · Score: 1

They have a script which uses sendmail to update your information. That's unacceptable in a desktop setting.
If you think about it, back in those days most distros that I'm aware of included sendmail by default, so it sort of makes sense to use what was there.
These days most systems have Perl, curl, wget and stuff like that. Security using OAuth is simple. Identification using OpenID is simple. They could change their machine update script to use https to send the details of my machine. I'd prefer all of that to the current system.

--
Sigs. We don't need no steenking sigs.

PHP Upgrade failed by mrmeval · 2011-09-10 01:36 · Score: 1

Opps

--
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty

Already Slashdotted by russlar · 2011-09-10 01:39 · Score: 4, Funny

The project started in 1993 and shot to fame six years later, largely as a result of three Slashdot articles (two of which brought the Counter to its knees)

Here's to keeping the tradition alive!

--
Anybody want my mod points?

Re:Already Slashdotted by sharkey · 2011-09-10 03:43 · Score: 1

Nice to see 7-digiters keeping up the side!

--

--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.

Pointless... by giuseppemag · 2011-09-10 01:40 · Score: 2

...as long as it works, who cares how many people use it?

--
My book: Friendly F#, fun with game development and XNA; my game: Galaxy Wars by VSTeam; my gamedev language: Casanova.

Re:Pointless... by robbrit · 2011-09-10 01:47 · Score: 5, Insightful

I care. Also those manufacturers of complex hardware like Nvidia might care, so that they can justify putting the resources aside to develop Linux drivers.
Re:Pointless... by SigmundFloyd · 2011-09-10 01:51 · Score: 1

...as long as it works, who cares how many people use it?
Quite a few care, obviously.

--
Knowledge is power; knowledge shared is power lost.
Re:Pointless... by westlake · 2011-09-10 02:20 · Score: 1

...as long as it works, who cares how many people use it?
It becomes much easier to attract money and talent if your "product" has a market of some measurable size.
The Moz Foundation gets 97% of its funding through the add-click --- from its placement on the Windows desktop, for all practical purposes.
Re:Pointless... by deniable · 2011-09-10 02:21 · Score: 1

The competition. Don't look at desktops. Look at smart phones.
Re:Pointless... by BrokenHalo · 2011-09-10 02:59 · Score: 3

Well said. I have read much bashing of Nvidia regarding the proprietary nature of their drivers, but I remember them being right at the forefront of manufacturers providing proper drivers at a time when I was unable to get 24-bit colour from the SiS GPU that I had in my box at the time. The fact that they have continued to provide good drivers when most other manufacturers have totally ignored Linux users has done a lot to ensure brand loyalty on my part.

I just don't have the time or the inclination to write my own drivers, and I am honest enough to admit that my own skills in this area are unlikely to stack up well against someone who does this for a living.

This aside, although I bought my first Nvidia card in 1998, I have never replaced one because it has failed. Motherboard manufacturers keep changing their sockets so my old cards no longer fit. But over the years, I have cobbled together a lot of boxes using my old components for various charities (with Linux pre-installed), and those old Riva and GeForce cards are still damn good components for anyone who doesn't need high-end gaming performance.
Re:Pointless... by pjstevns · 2011-09-10 03:17 · Score: 1

I care.
Also those manufacturers of complex hardware like Nvidia might care, so that they can justify putting the resources aside to develop Linux drivers.
If Nvidia gave a hoot about linux they would open-source the 3D driver or at least provide specs and docs to the nouveau project. I no, I seriously don't think they need to be told by LiCo how many people use linux. They Know!
FWIW: LiCo smells like amateur-hour. Too bad!
Re:Pointless... by Omestes · 2011-09-10 05:11 · Score: 2

. Despite all that and people constantly saying dumb things that aren't true like "linux is for geeks" or "linux is hard" or "linux is for technical people" when in reality it depends on the version.
Its gotten better, but those phrases still, sadly, stand. Perhaps I'm bitter because I'm once again fishing for a decent distro (anyone have anything to say about Aptosid?), but Linux still isn't as easy to use as OS X or Windows. Sure, its more versatile and powerful, but that is something that only matters to geeks and technical people.Yes, the days of spending hours hand writing config files has passed (though not completely, no distro will support sound over HDMI on an Ion chip without messing with ALSA), but it still isn't as easy to use, it still breaks for somewhat arbitrary reasons, and Linux coders still can't make a GUI to save their lives.
When both Gnome and Ubuntu jumped the shark, ruining my years of Distro stability, I had to go fishing for a decent distro. None of them were very friendly, half of the ones I tried wouldn't recognize my 8 year old wifi chip. All them them were very, very, different, with different ways of doing things. Most of them have incomprehensible config GUIs.
Hell, there isn't even decent media software. When I was trying to make a Linux based HTPC, I couldn't find anything simple enough to use as a "roll your own" jukebox at a party, where people of all levels of computer skill could access music, and create playlists (ala iTunes party shuffle). I couldn't even find anything that was stable with a very large library (50Gb+). I spend around a whole weekend just trying various media players, to see if anything would even come close to my needs. None did. Well, Songbird was close, but they discontinued Linux support, and it still liked to crash or go unresponsive. What software there is, that a normal person would want, all looks terrible, and is often wrapped in an impenetrable mess of a GUI (with no consistency, even).
Hell, even the core isn't quite there. The Linux filesystem, for all its functional and logical glory, sucks for the average user. The fact that I still need to use the command prompt daily doesn't help either (I personally don't mind, buy my parents would). When something breaks in Linux, it breaks, when something breaks in modern iterations of Windows, there is generally a quick fix, and it generally is 100% the fault of the user.
I can attest to this, since I'm not a technical user. I'm a geek, sure, but I'm pretty much trying to teach myself Linux as I go. I'm not an expert user. I'm also not the average joe, since I've been attached to a key board for 28 years, and have probably tried around 300 distros over the years, waiting for Linux to be mature enough to be my daily OS. I love Linux, I use daily now. But it still isn't at the point where I'd recommend it to a complete novice. Ubuntu was making me hopeful that that point would be coming soon, but lately I have my doubts (Unity, wtf?). Hell, the easiest to use GUI (Gnome) decided to kill themselves as well. Its as if the community decided that they might be able to stand on their own (desktop wise), and got scared.
Though, I suppose, I respect the idea behind Unity and Gnome Shell, Linux should try to just be a Windows/OS X clone, and should try being competent on its own merits, in its own way. If I wanted OS X or Windows, I'd be running them. Sadly both implications failed completely. And going for "simpler than OS X" is probably a mistake, since Linux' strength sure as hell isn't its simplicity.

--
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Re:Pointless... by chrb · 2011-09-10 05:18 · Score: 2

The first thing they will ask is "where did this number come from?". The 29 million users estimate appears to be the ratio of new registered users multiplied by an old estimate from 2001. It seems like a very unreliable figure. I've been using Linux as my main desktop since 1996, I've installed hundreds of servers, several desktops, and I've never heard of this Linux Counter site before now. I would imagine most Linux users have also never heard of this site... and now it appears on Slashdot, registrations will suddenly jump, and the estimate will increase by several million users?! And how many non-English speakers will have registered with this site?
Here's another guesstimate I just came up with: 2 billion internet users, 2.38% Linux desktop share according to Wikipedia, so 56 million Linux users...oh well, quality is often more important than quantity...
Re:Pointless... by ifiwereasculptor · 2011-09-10 13:52 · Score: 1

Well said, mostly. Linux is great, very functional but it does require some fiddling around every now and then. Though it tends to support my hardware better than Windows, historically. WiFi out of the box is often a problem, but it's not that much better in Windows unless you happen to have an installation CD for your wireless card. Windows also tends to not recognize VIA audio drivers on every other computer.
Your complaints about the file system, though, were odd. Why would it suck for the average user? It's actually much more streamlined. Everything that's yours is in /home/you. That's it and it's bookmarked. The rest is just white noise. Windows, on the other hand, puts your shit all over the place. Is it in C:\Users\you\program? No. Ok, C:\Program Files\program? Ok, then try C:\Program Files (x86)\program. Is whatever you want there? Oh, it might be in C:\program, try that. Windows 7 annoyed me for a while because it did not bookmark my home folder by default and left me dumbly looking for a C:\Documents and Settings that I couldn't find until I saw Users. Then everything was ok again, but Windows is not in any way, shape or form better than Linux when it comes to the file system.
Regarding your distro hunting, if you liked Ubuntu, try Mint. Preferably the Debian Edition. It simply saves you the hassle of installing media codecs and flash and is the distro I'm now recommending to newcomers.
Re:Pointless... by jc79 · 2011-09-10 20:41 · Score: 3, Informative

The reason I don't offer Linux is because every 6 months your drivers break

No they don't.
I've been running Fedora for the last 5 years on my desktop machine, which I use for my business administration as well as personal use, so it's pretty mission critical. In five years, I've only once had my "drivers break", and that was because I was trying the ATI Catalyst drivers rather than the free drivers from my distro. Using the drivers from the distro, I've always had a functioning system. This is something that Just Works. Printer, webcam, bluetooth headsets, audio cards, all work out of the box with the default installation with no extra administration needed.
I've not used Windows since XP, but my memory of adding new hardware to that system was having to install drivers from a CD, reboot the system, plug in the new hardware, reboot the system a couple of more times, search the internet for updated drivers, download them from a website and install them by hand, reboot the system again. How is that better for Joe or Sally to manage than plugging a bit of kit and having it work first time?
Re:Pointless... by Ash-Fox · 2011-09-11 00:34 · Score: 1

They want clicky clicky simple, nothing more than 3 GUI clicks away for basic tasks
So.. What basic task isn't in the GUI again?

The reason I don't offer Linux is because every 6 months your drivers break and that is just unacceptable.

Why doesn't it break for me?

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Re:Pointless... by Ash-Fox · 2011-09-11 00:36 · Score: 1

If Nvidia gave a hoot about linux they would open-source the 3D driver or at least provide specs and docs to the nouveau project.
nVidia actively develop, maintain, support a Linux driver, I would call that giving a hoot, in which case, your prediction was wrong or a lie.

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Re:Pointless... by Ash-Fox · 2011-09-11 22:40 · Score: 1

Using Kubuntu as an example here.

Well lets see...how about a working network front end?
So, previously I clicked the network tray icon and opened up a dialog to connect to a wireless network.

How about a simple fucking "find drivers" button, like Windows has had for a damned decade now?
I opened up "Additional drivers" (also known as restricted-drivers and restricted-manager).

Try something a little newer though, like Realteck HD Audio, The later Intel/AMD/Nvidia chips, Sigma sound Realtek Ethernet...those don't survive upgrades.
Work fine for me.

Hell try it yourself. Download any distro from 2006, that will be the same as if you had 5 years of support. Now upgrade to the current version and see what happens
I went from Kubuntu Hardy to Kubuntu Natty, didn't have magical problems on the machine that had such hardware (didn't have an earlier version because I didn't acquire that particular hardware until 08). I do have other machines though where I went from Kubuntu Dapper to Kubuntu Lucid, the worst issue I had in one of the upgrade was some init.d files were not updated, but that didn't mean any sort of failure, just the start up would not be faster for the specific daemons due to having legacy init.d files. Not really a deal breaker.

Tell you what, if you think Linux is ready remove your shell.

Honestly, I think you're fishing for issues at this point.
Also, some evidence.

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Re:Pointless... by Omestes · 2011-09-13 03:02 · Score: 1

Your complaints about the file system, though, were odd.

The /home versus everything else bit makes a ton of sense. But when it breaks down further to /var, /etc, /xyz it gets more opaque. It all makes sense from a purely practical view, but for people without years of Unix-like experience it seems rather odd and arbitrary.

Regarding your distro hunting, if you liked Ubuntu, try Mint.
Right now I'm trying KDE shoehorned onto the Xfce version of Mint Debian (quickly, come out with KDE Debian!), so far I'm liking it, though KDE isn't nearly as polished as in the Opensuse, Ubuntu, or vanilla Mint versions (obviously). Why KDE? I'm scared of when I'm forced to use Gnome Shell, and I personally don't like Xfce (its nice and light, but perhaps a bit too sparse. I loved OpenSuse, but also loved the idea of a rolling release, but Tumbleweed choked, and eventually decided to cease letting me update files, also apt is one of the sexiest things in the world. So far I'm happy with the experience, but I'd much prefer a native KDE version, I'm having a hard time remembering what features make it generally pleasant in other versions.

--
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Re:Pointless... by ifiwereasculptor · 2011-09-13 11:53 · Score: 1

The /home versus everything else bit makes a ton of sense. But when it breaks down further to /var, /etc, /xyz it gets more opaque. It all makes sense from a purely practical view, but for people without years of Unix-like experience it seems rather odd and arbitrary.
System files always seem odd and arbitrary at first. Open C:\Windows so you can make a proper comparison to / and you'll see it's pretty much the same, if not worse. Plus, my point is that regular users shouldn't be going through system files, so all you should really see is /home, making it far cleaner and simpler than the mess Windows tends to make. The problem with Linux, from an average user perspective, is not the filesystem layout itself, but that we are often forced to navigate it in search of some obscure config files and plugin folders. This is improving steadily, if not rapidly.

Right now I'm trying KDE shoehorned onto the Xfce version of Mint Debian (quickly, come out with KDE Debian!), so far I'm liking it, though KDE isn't nearly as polished as in the Opensuse, Ubuntu, or vanilla Mint versions (obviously). Why KDE? I'm scared of when I'm forced to use Gnome Shell, and I personally don't like Xfce (its nice and light, but perhaps a bit too sparse. I loved OpenSuse, but also loved the idea of a rolling release, but Tumbleweed choked, and eventually decided to cease letting me update files, also apt is one of the sexiest things in the world. So far I'm happy with the experience, but I'd much prefer a native KDE version, I'm having a hard time remembering what features make it generally pleasant in other versions.
I thought Mint Debian "came with" all the DEs. Isn't it fully compatible with Debian repositories, like Mint is with Ubuntu's? Given how modular Debian is, it's like saying you've "shoehorned" a lego brick into another, so maybe I'm missing something, like Mint's custom menus. Can't really think of anything. As for KDE, I tried it with Fedora 15 (dreadful, but probably not KDE's fault) and again with Arch (same KDE 4.7, much nicer experience overall) and I'm pretty ok with it, even though I'm going to ride Gnome 2 to its grave before switching (and I think we still have a year or two until it dies - at least until Wheezy comes out). Another good option I'm considering - one that I liked better than XFCE - is LXDE. I'm also thinking of trying Enlightenment.
Re:Pointless... by Omestes · 2011-09-13 15:08 · Score: 1

. The problem with Linux, from an average user perspective, is not the filesystem layout itself, but that we are often forced to navigate it in search of some obscure config files and plugin folders. This is improving steadily, if not rapidly.
I suppose this is the root (har har) of my point. I still have to go poke around finding various config files, where in Windows, or OS X, I pretty much can let the system handle itself outside of rare extreme emergencies.

Isn't it fully compatible with Debian repositories, like Mint is with Ubuntu's?

It is, but both vanilla Mint and Ubuntu though in very nice tweaks to make it play nicer, and trying to hunt them all down (some of which aren't hiding in Debian repos) is a pain. OpenSuse (the best KDE distro, barring the Tumbleweed issue I had) fully integrates gtk into KDE, providing a seamless experience, but trying to recreate this is a bit of a pain. The KDE packages you get straight from the Debian repos is 100% stock, so isn't quite as usable as I'm used to. Also KDE's blessing is its curse, its so damn customizable as to be infuriating at times, especially when you're trying to get it to fit your accustomed work flow. I can use stock Gnome without wanting to pull my hair out, but KDE needs a ton of work (once you get it, it works better, for me at least). Also it still uses a fair amount of gtk GUI tools, so you have to hunt down the proper qt versions. I suppose its more like trying to get 10 Legos to fit a specific shape, in the dark, when your not sure of what Legos are in the box, or if the bit you need was ever sold in stores..
I've been meaning to try both LXDE and, especially Enlightenment. I've heard about the latter for years and years without ever trying it myself. Perhaps I'll go on a DE safari this week, and see how many I can try out. Perhaps one will blow both Gnome and KDE out of the water.

--
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey

Good PR for Linux in the tech world... by O('_')O_Bush · 2011-09-10 01:47 · Score: 2

Maybe not such a great marketing move. I wonder how Microsoft would react to much higher than expected numbers of Linux boxes. In the distant past, Linux was waved off on the desktop side as a hobbyist or novelty platform, but I've seen many of my friends and colleagues switch over to a Linux distro in the past few years for their primary OS.

Of the three computers I have (not including gaming consoles and my phone running linux), all of them are either single, double, or triple boot optioned with a linux distro as one of the options.

--
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);

Re:Good PR for Linux in the tech world... by deniable · 2011-09-10 02:23 · Score: 1

Get the Facts, Microsoft have been there for a while. It's Apple that are having problems now and they're already getting market share numbers for Android v. iPhone.
Re:Good PR for Linux in the tech world... by arisvega · 2011-09-10 02:30 · Score: 1

.. but I've seen many of my friends and colleagues switch over to a Linux distro ..
I would advise you to take a harder look; whole universities, companies and public sectors of entire states have been using Linux for years now.
Actually I do not think there are many universities that don't- most started with some package from RedHat provided support and uptime, but soon learned how to do it themselves. Companies would just use anything that works, but most DTP ones I know go for Mac systems (if they got the budget for it- else they go for pirated MS software). For the public sector the change is slower, because -I guess- of some burreocratic inertia. But they are catching up, especially if there is a directive to "keep up to speed" with "cyberstuff"
A few years back, even microsoft was using it on its own microsoft.com domain (i.p. egg.microsoft.com), very much so visible by a simple nmap OS fingerprint extraction.

--
The three laws of thermodynamics:(1) You can't win. (2) You can't break even. (3) You can't even quit.
Re:Good PR for Linux in the tech world... by advocate_one · 2011-09-10 04:49 · Score: 1

Maybe not such a great marketing move. I wonder how Microsoft would react to much higher than expected numbers of Linux boxes. In the distant past, Linux was waved off on the desktop side as a hobbyist or novelty platform, but I've seen many of my friends and colleagues switch over to a Linux distro in the past few years for their primary OS.
maybe anecdotal evidence, but evidence nonetheless... the supermarkets in my locality ALL have a small amount of shelf space allocated for Linux Format magazine and in some cases, Linux Magazine as well... people must be buying the magazines, otherwise, the supermarkets would reallocate the space in a heartbeat... they monitor every item being sold and if anything is lacking in performance ie pounds coming in per week per foot of shelf then it gets dropped...

--
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Re:Good PR for Linux in the tech world... by LVSlushdat · 2011-09-10 04:54 · Score: 1

Of my 5 computers, of which 2 are desktops (mine and wifes), 2 servers and 1 laptop, I gave up the "dual-boot' several years ago. All of the systems run Ubuntu 8.04 (the two servers), or 10.04 on the desktops/laptop. For the ever-decreasing need for Windows, I have a Virtualbox VM on each, with a Windows 2003 server install, which as far as most apps are concerned, *is* WinXP.. Never had a need for a "bare-metal" Windows install in the last
several years. One of the servers, a Dell PowerEdge 750 runs a headless Virtualbox Windows 2003 server instance for putzing around with... I forsee the day when I won't even need the Windows VM's....

--
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
Re:Good PR for Linux in the tech world... by dbcad7 · 2011-09-10 06:01 · Score: 1

Really ?.. That's not 79,000 applications for Windows.. That's many vendors selling a lot of the same stuff.. Your post has not convinced me to give up Linux at all.. My numbers are more important than your delusions of grandeur .. Full time Linux user since 2001 = 10 years.. Virus infections = 0 .. Malware = 0.. Time spent reinstalling to fix a corrupted system = 0 .... I have never had a corrupted registry.. I have never had my web browser get borked to the point where I had to "reset it".. I have never had a "missing dll" error on rebooting my system... So you can keep your superior OS, I wouldn't switch to it if it was free.

--
waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
Re:Good PR for Linux in the tech world... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-09-10 07:45 · Score: 1

Amazon.com alone returns 79,000 hits in a search for "Windows software." Gog.com is republishing for Win 7 every MS-DOS and PC game it can its hands on. 300 or so to date.
And google returns 194.000.000 hits in a search for "idiot". What's your point?

and it is time the geek learned that "Free as in Beer" is over-rated.
And "Free as in speech" is under-rated...
Re:Good PR for Linux in the tech world... by westlake · 2011-09-10 12:50 · Score: 1

Your post has not convinced me to give up Linux at all..
It wasn't meant to.
Re:Good PR for Linux in the tech world... by puregen1us · 2011-09-10 14:22 · Score: 1

I would advise you to take a harder look; whole universities, companies and public sectors of entire states have been using Linux for years now.
Yes, and we have a 5 figure number of linux servers, but who wants to enter those details into this site? Who would allow us? And, their sendmail script, running on all those machines? Not a chance.
None of the major users of linux will want to waste their time with this. This is really for retentive power users who want to show off their linux usage. I know, I've been getting the annual email for years, it still lists my first machine from 10 years ago on there. Well, it did until I finally updated the list properly this year.
But, really, this is about people showing off their personal machines, nothing more. I don't see how the stats can possibly be accurate.
Re:Good PR for Linux in the tech world... by O('_')O_Bush · 2011-09-10 15:53 · Score: 1

Well yes, I see REHL/HPUX/Centos/OS X just about everywhere in industry and in academia, but I'm talking about grassroots every-day-joe engineers and moderately technically minded people. Those are the ones that I've been seeing a rapid increase in desktop linux adoption.

--
while(1) attack(People.Sandy);

ha ha from the twitter feed by codepunk · 2011-09-10 01:49 · Score: 1

"This new project will be re-written in a total modern way."

I can hear the counter devs talking now, you see we are going to use this really cool OOP hierarchy and this great ORM for mysql. The server is only going to consume 100MB of ram for each request it will be awesome.

--

Got Code?

Re:ha ha from the twitter feed by frosty_tsm · 2011-09-10 03:12 · Score: 1

"This new project will be re-written in a total modern way."
I can hear the counter devs talking now, you see we are going to use this really cool OOP hierarchy and this great ORM for mysql. The server is only going to consume 100MB of ram for each request it will be awesome.
ORMs and OOP don't consume that much memory per request (unless the developer using it doesn't have a clue and/or the project requires a lot of memory, which would be ORM independent). In the right hands, these tools will result in a more efficient app since they free up developer time to profile and optimize.
Re:ha ha from the twitter feed by trcollinson · 2011-09-10 04:17 · Score: 1

Yes but in reality the developers who are now working faster and more efficiently because of their freed up time, probably won't profile or optimize. Most* will consider themselves done and pat themselves on the back for a rewriting job well done without any further thought until something bad happens.
*Most -- Yes I am aware that anyone reading this is the exception to the rule and you profile, optimize and test extensively while not wasting time, you are on /. after all.
Re:ha ha from the twitter feed by 6Yankee · 2011-09-10 06:00 · Score: 1

Surely you want nosql in there? New paradigm and all that.

Re:Slashdot is dying. FoxNews confirms it. by somersault · 2011-09-10 01:51 · Score: 2

You must be new here

--
which is totally what she said

TWITTER YAY by equex · 2011-09-10 01:51 · Score: 1

It has a Twitter account! Instant success!

--
Can I light a sig ?

SSL certificate expired by Arancaytar · 2011-09-10 01:58 · Score: 1

Almost a month ago, too. Given recent events, my trust in SSL certs is already shaken enough.

Uh... make that three times... by SwedishChef · 2011-09-10 02:13 · Score: 2, Informative

"The project started in 1993 and shot to fame six years later, largely as a result of three Slashdot articles (two of which brought the Counter to its knees)"

It's down.

--
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!

Re:Android by muep · 2011-09-10 02:18 · Score: 1

... or is that Gnu/Android ?

More like Android/Linux.

Polish a turd, its still a turd! by PenquinCoder · 2011-09-10 02:25 · Score: 2

Okay, this counter is ... all about Linux , I get that. But its NOT news worthy. The site is designed pretty crappily as well as the error handling on server load. On top of that, the news summary says 'a modern redesign' of the website.... which still looks like about 2002 era, with some ajax thrown in. That is not modernization of an older concept.

Re:Polish a turd, its still a turd! by hduff · 2011-09-10 07:00 · Score: 1

So... what would make it more 'modern'? Flash?
Mono.

--
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert

Re:Interesting by deniable · 2011-09-10 02:25 · Score: 1

It skipped the desktop and went straight for the pocket.

Re:Android by armanox · 2011-09-10 02:32 · Score: 1

Either that or just Google/Linux.

--
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.

Delicious by Issarlk · 2011-09-10 02:39 · Score: 1

Nothing's better than see a guy fail so hard after writing things like "...not the whole machine, we are not on windoze! :-P " on his announcement page.

Double Fail by Pf0tzenpfritz · 2011-09-10 02:40 · Score: 2

1 No Debian package. What's it about to count at all, then?
2 Slashdotted. So you can't really count on it.

--
Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!

Re:Double Fail by Pf0tzenpfritz · 2011-09-10 02:44 · Score: 1

Update: Page was available at 3rd attempt. Not too bad...

--
Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
Re:Double Fail by hduff · 2011-09-10 07:03 · Score: 1
- 1 No Debian package. What's it about to count at all, then?
It's a script with installation and usage instructions that should run on any Linux distro.
What is this "Debian package" nonsense of which you speak?
--
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert

Seriously? by Jorl17 · 2011-09-10 02:44 · Score: 1

Seriously? You're asking "What has happened?". You're slashdotted! And you made the mistake of ASKING US TO SPAM YOU WITH ANSWERS!!

Oh boy, double fail!

--
Have you heard about SoylentNews?

Re:Seriously? by fireball74 · 2011-09-10 03:04 · Score: 1

I don't think Alexander knew about this article. And the traffic could have come from Digg as well, if someone posted the same article there. He was just curious.
Re:Seriously? by Jorl17 · 2011-09-10 03:22 · Score: 1

Yes, I know, that's the funny bit: he requested a bunch of users who probably will only go there once to tell him what's going on. That's going to be a lot of spam!

--
Have you heard about SoylentNews?

Lies, damn lies by houghi · 2011-09-10 02:53 · Score: 1

and statistics is all this will provide.

It is a neat thing and we all know how inaccurate it is. When even distributions are not sure how many users they have how could a good count exist.

--
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.

Re:Android by JustOK · 2011-09-10 03:10 · Score: 1

Go nux

--
rewriting history since 2109

Re:Also counts non-GNU Linux ! by Slashdot+Assistant · 2011-09-10 03:12 · Score: 1

IMHO, RMS is full of it here, and trying to ride Linux' popularity. OTOH, I am quite willing to believe the GPL _is_ absolutely critical to all Linux' development -- it attracted many more developers than the BSDL, most likely those who were concerned about commercial exploitation -- those who wouldn't be proud Apple took their code and hid it in OS/X.

I agree that the GNU/Linux thing is at this stage largely pointless. Linux has become the de facto name for Linux distributions - not just the kernel.

You're aware that the GPL doesn't preclude commercial exploitation? Also, what do you mean by code being hidden? Is it not in compliance with the licenses for the code in question? If there is no compliance issue then why insinuate bad behavior? Are Debian "hiding" vim if they include it without adding a prominent "now contains vim!" banner to their site? Do we want a return to the advertising clauses of the earlier MIT license? Developers should choose licenses that best represent their wishes, and if a developer wants to force Red Hat management to once a month march through the city waving OpenSSH banners and setting off fucking fireworks then that's what they should require in a license. Neither GPL nor BSD are inherently better licenses. If GPL works for Linux the same is not automatically true of something like OpenSSH. Choose the license that suits your needs - don't expect anyone to do anything more than that which is specifically required by the license.

GPL undoubtably helped renew and popularize the open source movement - including Linux. The legal difficulties surrounding BSD didn't do any harm to Linux adoption.

Re:Also counts non-GNU Linux ! by laffer1 · 2011-09-10 03:39 · Score: 1

FreeBSD is moving to llvm clang. OpenBSD and NetBSD have put effort into getting pcc working again. DragonFly has embrassed the GPLv3 and put recent GCC in. MirBSD has been experimenting with pcc but I don't know their objective there.

MidnightBSD might switch to llvm but we're evaluating what will be the best objective c solution long term. The real problem is support from the GNU community is limited. Upstreaming patches as a BSD developer is a nightmare. They don't want us as users.

--
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone

Re:Also counts non-GNU Linux ! by inglorion_on_the_net · 2011-09-10 03:53 · Score: 1

IMHO, RMS is full of it here

Why? Because he is reasonable and says that a system that is GNU + Linux is GNU/Linux, whereas a BSD is not GNU/BSD, even if it does use the GNU compiler collection?

I don't get the problem people have with this. The GNU project provides a Unix-like (and I would say, nicer than many actual Unices) userland. You can use it with a variety of different kernels (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_variants) and the experience of using the GNU software will be much the same. Operating systems based on the GNU userland are customarily referred to as GNU/. GNU/Linux is one instance of this.

With Linux, you also get the option of using different userlands than GNU. Android is an example of this, as are a number of installations I have performed using Linux and Busybox. These would be Linux, but not GNU. Hence, calling them GNU/Linux would be inappropriate.

In common usage, "Linux" is often used to refer to GNU/Linux systems, but, technically, Linux is only the kernel, and much of the personality of an operating system is determined by the userland. For example, Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 and Android 2.3 are quite different and applications written for one will likely not work on the other. Debian GNU/kFreeBSD 6.0 would be similar to Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 - even though /kFreeBSD isn't based on Linux and Android is.

Long story short, ideology and popularity aside, "GNU/Linux" makes technical sense. Then again, I may be "full of it", too.

By the way, regarding your statement that RMS is trying to ride on Linux's popularity, you may want to consider that Linux is riding on the (previously developed) GNU system. I think both are true, and this is mutually beneficial.

--
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.

A flaw in their script by kungfuj35u5 · 2011-09-10 04:14 · Score: 1

This seems to rely on the fact that the user would have a working mail transfer agent setup on their system. This is a rarity, however. I happen to have mailx configured with sendmail to use an SMTP smart host, however most people probably do not.

Re:Also counts non-GNU Linux ! by redelm · 2011-09-10 04:36 · Score: 1

I don't think GNU at all "owns" the concept of a unix-like enironment. Apart from the licence, GNU is principally a series of software projets (find on their website).

If a user chooses a distro with KDE (rather than gnome), she does not run any GNU software directly (emacs, anyone?). KDE & KApps are not GNU.

Yes, bash and other utils used _are_ GNU, but these are hardly unique and quite replaceable by things like tcsh and BSDutils. Frankly, I do not see system identity tied to invisible utils.

re BTW, Linus most certainly built upon gcc and GNUtils. But he doesn't them for popularity. Fighting over credit is discreditable.

Re:Also counts non-GNU Linux ! by redelm · 2011-09-10 04:40 · Score: 1

Yes, I'm well aware the GPL allows commercial exploitation. I _like_ it, and believe the GPL encourages ethical coding -- including giving source to people who have paid for code, not just reselling binaries.

The AT&T suit did slow *BSD, but was over long before Linux passed *BSD in installs or coders.

Meet the new site.... by darkpixel2k · 2011-09-10 05:09 · Score: 1

....ugly as the old site.

--
There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)

silly by defective_warthog · 2011-09-10 05:44 · Score: 1

really a silly counter. I started in '98. I have had many computers since that first one so exactly what are the counting?

Re:silly by hduff · 2011-09-10 07:05 · Score: 1

really a silly counter. I started in '98. I have had many computers since that first one so exactly what are the counting?
From the looks of their their script, it appears that they are now counting each Linux computer that reports itself to them via that script on a weekly basis.

--
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert

People who use it by HalAtWork · 2011-09-10 06:13 · Score: 1

Because we need people to care about it for it to work? With OSS, what goes around comes around.

--
Twinstiq, game news

Re:Also counts non-GNU Linux ! by staalmannen · 2011-09-10 18:39 · Score: 1

I find the definition on when a system should be counted a GNU system is quite confusing. If it is the coreutils that determines it, Arch linux users can quite painlessly transplant GNU coreutils with busybox ( https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=48187 ) or heirloom ( https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=48399 ) equivalents. Is it a dependency on Bash-isms in init scripts and other stuff for running the system, then the Debian-derived distros should be out of the definition since they have moved on to Dash and Gobo linux is using zsh if I am not mistaken. Is it glibc that determies if a system is a GNU system? This one is more difficult to replace, but Android is using bionic, there are uClibc and musl libc linux variants out there. If it is binutils and gcc that determines if a system is a GNU system, a lot of the BSDs would also be considered GNU systems.

72 of 113 comments (clear)