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Windows Server 8 Is A Radical Departure From Previous Releases
Julie188 writes "While the world is distracted with the Window 8 client, Microsoft is simultaneously working on Windows Server 8. At BUILD, Microsoft unveiled its next-generation server OS under heavy secrecy to a room full of analysts and product testers. WS8 is radically different than its predecessors. There's an argument to make that it's not actually Windows. The code they saw was pre-beta and an obvious attempt to put an arrow in the heart of former-softie-turned-VMware-CEO Paul Maritz. Windows 8 Server editions are to be run in Server Core format (the GUI will be optional). PowerShell has gotten an overhaul and its command list will exceed 2,300 native commandlets in Windows Server 8. Hyper-V has also been revamped and will become massively scalable in the number of VMs supported and in the size of each VM."
In related news, it appears that Java now runs on Microsoft's Azure platform.
Not surprised that Java runs on Azure now. Even iCloud uses Azure for their backend.
This space for rent.
Windows is not done if it doesn't have Edlin, the world's greatest text editor.
Microsoft isn't saying anything about linux, however this is a direct attack against linux and unix in general, it is what microsoft does without mentioning linux that needs to be watched
These just sound like incremental improvements. I'm not complaining but adding extra commandlets and features isn't a "radical departure". Plus, the GUI is optional on the current version of Windows Server.
This is heavy secrecy?
ROTFLMAObbq
C'mon, Bill, do you really expect us to fall for that AGAIN?
(Of course, some will... I'm depressed now...)
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Windows Server. It's like military intelligence.
Integration of MS products with MS products is not a reason to call something great. This applies if you replace MS with any other corporation.
A products move from good to great is strongly based on its coupling and cohesion with other solutions. This is true for a software package, a hardware package, or a process. For example, Google Apps and Picassa have very little to no coupling and cohesion. Visual Studio and Azure have a very functional level of coupling and cohesion. Each is greater than the sum of their parts.
*hands the troll a bone*
Windows has been perfectly intuitive for me. Moreso than MacOS. I found Ubuntu and FreeBSD more intuitive than MacOS, sadly. Admittedly with FreeBSD, I had someone point me to the handbook first thing. What is "most intuitive" very much depends on the user.
Oh, and I didn't need to install cards for printers on any of them. Usually I don't even need to download drivers separately (unless you count installing CUPS in FreeBSD).
Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
Someone in Redmond realized that a server doesn't necessarily need a GUI???
VMS -> WNT -> W2K -> W2003 -> W2008 -> VMS.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
.
"The world"? Probably the funniest thing I read all day.
Will it still be able to be converted to a workstation OS like server2008 and R2, and, as a workstation, will it be a more seamless transition for users from Windows 7 than 8 proper?
Where have I heard of this before? Lets see... A server OS that has the option to be command line only and has in exceed of 2,300 command line functions.... Oh yeah... Unix/Linux.
Who cares? Does anyone still use their bug ridden, virus prone, products?
I'm glad PowerShell is getting an upgrade. It's already very good, but little tweaks can easily make it much better.
Anybody else still have nightmares about back when they used to run that shoddy OS?
Slashdot: news for nerds, stuff that matters and Microsoft Windows stories?
Can we please get back to bashing Apple now?
And with that Windows catches up with the late 70's. :P
#6495ED - cornflower blue
How would you do anything? You can't buy apps from the Azure store without a GUI. This will never work.
Remember! a GUI is like a fancy menu. Menus make easy things simple and hard things imposable
its command list will exceed 2,300 native commandlets
Holy fuck. I don't even know how to process that number of commands to remember.
"Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." – Henry Spencer
An improvement over Windows which took nine years to copy properly
I'll believe it when these functions quit working. The whole thing is still heavily based on the windows message pump and a HUGE legacy C API that does everything under the windows hood. On top of that there's a COM layer and on top of those there's now a .NET layer. But the foundation is still the same 9 gazillion C calls and WM_ messages.
... by turning a PC into an oversized, user-unfriendly smart phone.
MS has put a lot of effort into developer productivity in Windows 8, especially when crossing boundaries between the client, server, and cloud. Visual Studio is now buttressed with a new version of Expression Blend that edits both HTML5 and XAML. The editor has a live preview that lets you navigate a site with an inboard browser, then dive into the code on a single rendered element, even if it is dynamically generated. Likewise, there are new remote debugging tools that lets the developer go from a running web app to the output of the server to the code that generates the output, all in one view. There are single-click deployment tools for publishing to server, app store, and cloud.
This all goes /way/ beyond what Eclipse can do. Very impressive; tooling has always been a strength for MS.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
*hands the troll a bone*
Don't. Just don't. It only pushes other comments further down the page. The thing to do with trolls is ignore them; we have moderation for a reason.
There are few things that make me facepalm more than seeing an obvious troll with dozens of comments attached to it. Yes, I'm quite aware that I just added one myself.
A true non gui environment would have a full screen cli interface in text mode (i.e. no unnecessary loading of video drivers)
Which would require the hardware to support a text mode. Not all video chipsets on all platforms do. But if only enough driver is loaded to support a terminal emulator, and the operating system still supports old-skool serial consoles, I agree with you.
Use a Mac with no security at all and you can have your server hacked into in a heartbeat. Also Apple is no where near Microsoft in terms of virtualization, not saying Microsoft is best at it VMware would probably take the cake there especially with their integration with the Cisco UCS blades. Microsoft servers are great for certain business needs with different tastes of Linux for others, but I would never ever want a Mac server in my Data Center.
Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.
Their claims of performance enhancements seem promising and I think the Live Storage Migration feature could really come in handy.
Of course I won't jump on board right away, but it's definitely something I'll try to get a hold of to set up in a test environment.
Why doesn't Apple take advantage of M$'s decision to go batshit stupid? If Apple marketed their desktop OS for PC's in general they could earn even more insane amounts of money. I know it would be difficult to support all the different configurations out there but still it just looks SO f'n tempting. They could even call the next Apple OS "Couching tiger, hidden bitch slap".
To this day, a server on a Windows NT/AD network still completely lacks the ability to give me a fucking list of who all is logged onto the (whole) network right now and where they're logged in from and what the timestamp was when they logged in. In a large Windows Active Directory network, it's always been a big fucking mystery who all is on your network at any given point in time. Since day one of VMS,even before it ever DecNET or TCP/IP or Pathworks, and was just a single multiuser computer, right up until today's can't-kill-it-therefore-it-must-be-a-zombie OpenVMS running on Itanic hardware of today,.you can type in a simple command and get a list of all your logged-on users.
True, a Windows AD network is composed of multiple, almost-peer-like workstations and servers, but if AD would've been designed correctly in the first place, it would've included a master database that contained all workstation/session logon and logoff records, and some kind of heartbeat system that detected workstations/sessions that got the rug pulled out from under them in a disorderly fashion and generated the appropriate logoff records, and that you could get a simple listing of who's on the network right now, from any domain controller.
Linux shells still pass data as text, when passing objects would make so much more sense and give a lot more options
Sorry, but no, passing data as objects sucks.
Text is the one and only universal interface. Passing data as objects limits you to one system. If you have powershell objects you need a powershell environment to use them.
When I want to get data from a website into my database text is the only format that both sides understand. Putting it into more general terms, when I want to get data from X to put it into Y text is the only format that both sides understand.
I can scan and OCR text from old books and newspapers. I can print text. I can edit text in any machine from a PDP-11 to a smart phone. When I'm limited to a slow and/or high latency connection text is the only format that works. I can use vi to edit a data file in a remote Unix system using a 300 bps modem if I need to. I can speak text on a phone for someone else to type it at the other end.
When I'm managing an important system that *must* keep running under emergency situations only text will do.
Object oriented system administration is bullshit.
Those stupid people on kernel.org using IIS. No wonder they got hacked. Morons !!
As far as I'm aware, Kernel.org was hacked using compromised user credentials. Kind of hard to protect a server which lets users log in remotely if said users lose the credentials required to log in and don't even realise they did so.
I think you have no idea of what the Unix shell does, you are just parroting M$ marketese.
Bash can pass objects from one module to the other, that's what the pipe is for. The Unix shell is perfectly compatible with any feature of any language that has a Unix version because it can run anything that runs on the system.
For example, you need some feature that Perl has but the shell lacks?
cat test.dat | perl -p -e "s/PowerShell is great/PowerShell is a piece of shit/g"
A shell language isn't meant to have everything plus the kitchen sink built in. The Unix shell runs on servers that may be embedded into a wide range of hardware, you shouldn't assume you'll have all the CPU, memory, and storage capacity to run an object oriented system with thousands of built-in commands.
Server Core, PowerShell . . . . Has anyone noticed how Windows has been looking more and more like Linux as of late?
Regards;
Here's a screenshot of the NEW Windows 8.
(You'll have to use your imagination a little here....)
PS C:\>
Tada!!!
Every time there's a new article about Windows/Microsoft anything, ever, no matter what the subject 90% of the posts try and just poo-poo it. In the meantime, the real world will (normally) pick the right tool for the job and ignore the petty politics & gripes that gets in the way of real discussion which seems to be common-place here.
IMHO Windows does try to "be" linux as Linux is so flexible as to run on anything from $20 routers to incredably scalable multi-CPU servers. There is some overlap of course, by largely the two technologies service different needs IMO.
So calm down kids, we can all be friends, see? Some of us like MS toys, some of us prefer others. Let's try and not flame-war each other ok?
throw new NoSignatureException();
Not root credentials. Yet the server was rooted...
If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
Its not very windows like lately that to accomplish typical normal useful system administration on a windows machine requires copy and pasting arcane powershell gibberish from KB articles.
There's an argument to make that it's not actually Windows.
Instead it is now OS X.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING will save Micro$oft from an ultimate demise if they do not slash their price for home users. It's that simple. You can make it do AMAZING things, but people will a)not upgrade to it b)install illegal copies of it and c)be more inclined to consider other o/s that are 1/10th of the price (for example MacOS)... I am not remotely interested in upgrading to Windows 8. I have an iPhone and run Windows 7. I don't want a Mac either. What I want is to be able to pay Micro$haft $29.99 for the latest version of it's operating system, get a 5 user licence like the Mac crowd do, and I am sure there are many more like me... and that would also kill piracy of Windows in the western world.
I would never ever want a Mac server in my Data Center
And neither would Apple it seems, at least not for big stuff like their new Cloud platform, which runs on Azure (Windows) and AWS (Linux I presume, but do not know)
So it's becoming more Unix like? Quick job there Bill, welcome to the 60's
So now that the Caldera-Darl-thingy-Novell-WhatEverOSisUnixOrLinuxIsOurs is over M$ feels sticky free to release a SV5/Windows8 server since Sum Microsystems was bought by Oracle and savaged and no longer exists least the bones.
Lordy lordy LoL.
Me thinks I just might shuffle my tired old sh feet over to GrokLaw and waite to see what words do erupt.
Toodles
--//??//[][]
No cards to install for printers.
you're doing it wrong.
I use Mac, PC, Linux, Unix at work and at home.
When it comes to virtualization, VMWare infrastructure is the better way to go. No need to worry about the underlying OS licensing/etc. Otherwise, there are VMWare versions for both Mac & Windows. Parallels is also an option.
The fact that you state that Microsoft servers are great for certain business needs (insinuating that you have them in your dat center), but then in the same virtual breath state that you'd never want a Mac server in your data center tells me you a) know nothing about it (so why have it) or b) are a biased asshat.
Choose your poison.
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
It will be like Xbox, MS will have to pay people to use it.
oh of course you mean like every other console maker starts by doing.
IMHO, the sooner MS runs out of money the better off all of will be.
naturally you're too retarded to install a different operating system so you need the demise of microsoft just so another option has to present itself.
Still using Windows XP, why should I care about Windows 8
Text is not a magical thing that just works out of the blue. Text requires as much support as objects do. Text requires encoding specifications, fonts that reflect those encoding specifications, editors that understand those encoding specifications and use that fonts, etc.
Even if text is simple ASCII, you still need a program to print those bytes to the console. You still need ASCII, in the first place, to be understood by all subsystems in the same way. If you had two computers or two programs that used a different encoding, they couldn't talk to each other, even if text was all they exchanged. You still need a font. You still need a console display.
It just happens that text was there first before objects, and therefore the infrastructure to support text is already up and running. Had objects been invented first, you would not have said that text is the universal interface; you would have said that objects is the universal interface, because everyone would understand objects.
So you strip out the GUI now without terminal services how do you remote to the box? Telnet??? Gee isn't that secure!
I just love having to figure out where they put everything, again.
They change add/remove programs to programs, they change from OS to OS where system restore is, they change and now have two 'property' selections for printers. This is just stuff off the top of my head.
Try leaving a path for the classic style and leave well enough alone. I have having to support XP/Vista/Win7 and remember where one thing is on one OS vs another.
Why it is is because large scale management for Microsoft servers are not that there for some tasks. I said Microsoft servers are good for certain tasks not all tasks. And the virtual servers we have are all running on VMware ESX, not Microsoft. There is some test servers set up using HyperV, but they aren't used for anything other than testing. On the security end, many critical issues with Mac OS take longer to be fixed than that of Linux or Microsoft with Linux probably being the fastest. Example being with the certs from about two weeks ago, Linux and Microsoft removed them nearly a full week before Apple. The Certs issue was unique because you could remove them yourself, but I expect faster response on such an issue. If you wanted to use a server that you would typically use Windows for a Citrix XenApp Server, it would not be possible nor would it be possible for the clients. Yes, Citrix has a client for Mac, BUT no USB support our company uses PnP devices. Could you uses a Mac Server as a file server without an issues, probably, but why diversify my data center more than needed?
Just because you are wrong and I called you out on it doesn't mean I am a Troll.