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MIT's $1,000 House Challenge Yields Results

An anonymous reader writes "MIT's $1k House Project is an extraordinary challenge to provide safe and healthy homes for the world's burgeoning population. The Pinwheel House (PDF), a student project which helped serve as a catalyst for the challenge, has been completed in China by architect Ying chee Chui. Students have come up with a dozen or so designs to meet the challenge and improve living conditions for not just emerging economies but larger nations as well."

203 comments

  1. Ummmm.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's wrong with living in my mother's basement?

  2. What is the point by Psychotria · · Score: 0

    What is the point of a $1k house when land costs at least 100x that amount?

    1. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you rather pay $201,000? And no land does not cost that much in all places.

    2. Re:What is the point by gandhi_2 · · Score: 2

      Where in the developing world is land $100,000 for a .25 acre lot?

      And even if it was? $101,000 is a lot more affordable than $300,000.

      And about that link. A link to a press release. With a link to a stupid splash page. With a link that finally goes to project?

      Some of the desigs are intriguing to me. Not sure how they will hold up in some parts of the world.

    3. Re:What is the point by dougmc · · Score: 1

      What is the point of a $1k house when land costs at least 100x that amount?

      Perhaps you don't need to build your $1k house downtown in a big city?

      Most land costs far, far less than that. There's lots of land available in Texas (to pick the state I live in) where it's around $200-$300/acre, and an acre is enough to put a few houses on. Granted, most of this land isn't terribly desirable, but getting a 1/3rd acre plot that's not too far from a city and not too bad for $1000 ought to be doable.

    4. Re:What is the point by ascrewloose · · Score: 2

      I'm sure $1,000 was set just to house cost/generic baseline. Obviously, there will be lots of variables. Cost of products, labor, land, taxes. I just like house the house can be infinitely expandable, building larger pinwheels around the outside until it becomes insanely difficult to reach the center.

    5. Re:What is the point by grouchomarxist · · Score: 3, Informative

      If you read the article you'd see that one of the points of this project is to rebuild houses after disasters, so in that case the people already own the land.

    6. Re:What is the point by giorgist · · Score: 2

      More importantly, can you go up ... most poor places are also high density. Where it is low density, it is probably because of the elements which this house might have problems with.

    7. Re:What is the point by antifoidulus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Depends on what you are trying to do. For instance in China a huge problem is the massive fight of people from the rural areas to the cities(whether they move legally or not, China still uses the hukou system to basically force people to stay in the area they were born in). This creates huge problems in both the rural and the urban areas. In the urban areas you have a lot of poor, usually uneducated(and often times single male) people flooding into the cities, increasing crowding, making competition for jobs even more intense, etc. Meanwhile the rural farms are left with labor shortages, shortages of young people to take over the work, etc. This in turn helps to drive up food prices which places a lot of pressure on the Chinese government.

      As a result the Chinese government right now is trying to find ways to make rural living more palatable to young people so that they will stay in the countryside instead of moving to the city. Affordable, comfortable housing could go a long way towards that goal.

    8. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in a medium size city in the US among good housing stock. Empty lots here are $40-60k. $100k for some undeveloped lot in the third world is a fiction that exists exclusively inside your head.

    9. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nevermind that. Permitting, one-time taxes, environmental reviews, and various other government fees will kill you. Worse yet, you have no idea how much all that will cost because the government agencies bill for professional services by the hour. You think AT and T would be bad as a monopoly again? At least your phone bill had a stated rate. The permitting and inspection process has no such animal. It will "cost a lot", but you have no idea how much.

      That kills the project right there. A lot of us would love to do a project like that. We can predetermine the cost of the land. We can predetermine the cost of a pre-fab structure. We can even get reasonable estimates for foundations if we know the dimension of the structure; but that's as far as you can go. After that, it's anybody's guess. Unless you have money to burn, or are willing to risk not being able to complete the project within a reasonable budget, you have to say "no".

      I have actually seen uncompleted projects for sale by desperate sellers. It's a sad state of affairs.

      This is in California, BTW so it might not be so bad elsewhere; but something tells me it's not much better.

    10. Re:What is the point by Cheerio+Boy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nevermind that. Permitting, one-time taxes, environmental reviews, and various other government fees will kill you. Worse yet, you have no idea how much all that will cost because the government agencies bill for professional services by the hour. You think AT and T would be bad as a monopoly again? At least your phone bill had a stated rate. The permitting and inspection process has no such animal. It will "cost a lot", but you have no idea how much.

      That kills the project right there. A lot of us would love to do a project like that. We can predetermine the cost of the land. We can predetermine the cost of a pre-fab structure. We can even get reasonable estimates for foundations if we know the dimension of the structure; but that's as far as you can go. After that, it's anybody's guess. Unless you have money to burn, or are willing to risk not being able to complete the project within a reasonable budget, you have to say "no".

      I have actually seen uncompleted projects for sale by desperate sellers. It's a sad state of affairs.

      This is in California, BTW so it might not be so bad elsewhere; but something tells me it's not much better.

      Huh. Second time I get to reference the Earthship guys. They've put up a map of what they call Pockets of Freedom which are places in the US that don't have building codes or allow for "experimental architecture". Too bad none of them are in my area. :-(

      --

      "Bah!" - Dogbert
    11. Re:What is the point by Timmmm · · Score: 2

      Maybe in America. Anywhere decent in Europe where you can get planning permission to build a house is going to be at least £100k. We don't have any unused land.

    12. Re:What is the point by exploder · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that pinwheel design is great--scales nicely from 7 to 200 bedrooms, short paths from the beds to the dining hall, and you can get a tremendous number of positive thoughts just by sticking a platinum statute beside the main stairway.

      --
      Yo dawg, I heard you like the Ackermann function, so OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD
    13. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe China is ripe should try forceful redistribution of wealth through dictatorship of the proletariat?

    14. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can comfortable put 16 houses on 1 acre. problem is your corrupt governor makes that illegal and you can only put 1 hours on a 1/4 acre.
      Thus wasting a LOT of land. Help to have laws passed that allow dense housing built on a 2 acre plot of land to allow the rest of the 1.5 acres to be farmed for feeding and sustenance the 4 homes built on the 1/2 acre.

      Oh wait, that kind of thinking frees the poor from the control of the rich. Allowing the poor to feed themselves and produce things to sell is unacceptable.

    15. Re:What is the point by MattSausage · · Score: 1

      Does anyone have a link to this Pinwheel design house? I'm not as up on my modern architecture as I should be I guess. Wikipedia is surprisingly unhelpful

    16. Re:What is the point by Tarsir · · Score: 1

      It's the (PDF) link in the summary.

    17. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the South east UK is that kind of price for a plot with planning permission if not more

    18. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wanted to point out that this was easy to avoid. Had the smarter farmers been allowed to buy up and create ever larger farm where they could bring in industrial farming practices. Right now farming in china is close to the way it's been for the last hundred years. These farmers would be rich enough to import many comforts.

    19. Re:What is the point by Fnord666 · · Score: 1

      Does anyone have a link to this Pinwheel design house? I'm not as up on my modern architecture as I should be I guess. Wikipedia is surprisingly unhelpful

      Sure, here you go.

      --
      'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
    20. Re:What is the point by b0bby · · Score: 2

      The South East UK is not the developing world, though you wouldn't know it from the plumbing ;)

      These designs are for rural China, India & Africa.

    21. Re:What is the point by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      There are still places in the US where you can get a free land grant.

    22. Re:What is the point by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      Yea, but then you could have problems controlling traffic and it can be a pain to seal the whole thing off in case of a goblin invasion or digging to deep.

    23. Re:What is the point by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 1

      Well a lot of land in Europe is locked up in government owned land.

      Same thing is happening here in the US with the government locking down
      millions of acres.

      Then lumber and mining companies get sweetheart deals to use the land.

      There are also some large land holders in Europe and the US that have
      large amounts of land locked up.

      Here in the US Ted Turner is our largest land holder.

      In Mexico the billionaire telecom pirate Slim holds the most land.

      It is the same deal in Europe, the gluttonous who can never get enough
      always wanting more.

      I don't think it should be taken from them, but I think they should have to sell
      it at fair market value if they are not using for anything for several years consecutive.

      --
      google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
    24. Re:What is the point by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      people need greenspace. it's good for the psyche. if you want to live in high density housing, then move into an apartment complex where the number of residences per acre they can fit is limited only by how high they can build (in some cities, we're talking thousands of residences per acre). If you have the money, and don't mind the commute to the city center, then you should be within your rights to buy up a plot of land and put up low density housing.

      what should be illegal is tearing down old growth forests and ecologically significant wetlands to build houses.

    25. Re:What is the point by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      That was the first thing that occurred to me too. Anyone can throw up walls and a roof on the cheap. That's NOT the problem. Then problem is:

      1) Finding the LAND to put it on (and KEEPING it)
      2) Security of the land/household (your house is only as secure as your ability to defend it from someone else wanting to take it)
      3) The amenities and infrastructure needed to make the house sanitary and comfortable (I.e. sewer service, plumbing, affordable electricity, etc.).

      The physical house itself is the LEAST of poor people's problems. Just look at the slums of Rio, if you want a good example. Plenty of houses--but they're built on illegal land in gang-infested neighborhoods with filthy open sewers.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    26. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where? How about the entire northeast corridor, close to the major city centers? We have the northern half of BAMA already, and using Microsoft products is like getting jabbed in the ear with needles, so we just need some razorgirls and some rastas colonizing Mir to be full-on Neuromancer.

    27. Re:What is the point by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      Ironic, rebuilding houses after disasters that won't stand up to future disasters.

    28. Re:What is the point by Duradin · · Score: 1

      Not so much ironic as a sound business strategy.

      If it could withstand future disasters they couldn't sell you a new one after each disaster.

    29. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean had the farmers with more money or political influence been allowed to use economies of scale to force others out of the market, they could use more oil than the entire rest of the world? I've never seen such a succinct display of such a vast ignorance.

    30. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      China still uses the hukou system to basically force people to stay in the area they were born in

      I'd not heard that since I'm constantly reading the reason there are labor shortages is that the young would be farmers are constantly migrating to the cities, leaving the farms untended. I strongly suspect you're either wrong or its far, far more complex than you attempt to inform.

    31. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you're a dope of the highest order.

    32. Re:What is the point by Archwyrm · · Score: 1

      Between a $1K house that won't stand up to future disasters and a $100K house that won't stand up to future disasters, which would you pick?

      --
      Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power. -- Mussolini
    33. Re:What is the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank the Lord Almighty, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, that this doesn't happen in the US of A. We developed as a nation so that this sort of socio-economical political influence just can not happen. Our forefathers spent their time, perfectly crafting the American Constitution. Sure, there were giant corporations running the world back then -- I'm thinking of you Dutch East India -- but American ingenuity quickly put a stop to it. We built our country on God's back so He rewarded us with Eternal Vigilance over the physical world. That's why every single country demands the American police force. Pax Americana. And since other developing countries need oil, we're rapidly switching to green technology.

      American heroes! One and all!

    34. Re:What is the point by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      I'm a Baby Boomer retiree living in Mexico. I can attest to the fact that not only is land here inexpensive but living expenses as well. Land here is No Where Near $200k US an acre.

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    35. Re:What is the point by marnues · · Score: 1

      Here in Montana (you know, Ted Turner's land) we prefer our land to be untouched and especially undeveloped. There is great need to preserve land if not for wilderness areas, at least for future use.

    36. Re:What is the point by winnabago · · Score: 1

      Anonymous is talking about non-inclusionary zoning. In most places in the US it is not possible to build any more than one single family house on a 1/3, 1/4, or even 1 acre lot. This is required low density. With a few exceptions (Portland area, for example), you can always spread out and buy as much land as you want pending your own personal finances, but in suburban US for most our history as a nation, high density housing is a bad word and it has been effectively regulated out of existence.
      There is a mentality that this hurts property values and higher density means bringing poverty and undesireables in. Nothing to do with psyche.

      --
      Dammit Otto, you have lupus.
    37. Re:What is the point by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      Did you even bother to read the post? My guess is no, you haven't.

  3. Mit is the problem, not the solution by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 1

    MIT epitomises the competitive, winner-takes-it-all, might-makes-right environment which is keeping half the world in poverty. Every dominant man starts forming his network at one of the elite universities, supporting research in collusion with exploitative business. When you've accepted that offer, you've already asked to be part of the system - to pretend to do something against it is ineffective hypocrisy.

    1. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      What's your solution ?

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    2. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

      You sound like a sad little hippie who still has a chip on his shoulder because some jocks picked on him a decade or two prior.

      What is wrong with competition?

      And you propose a losers-distribute-winnings-equally environment?

    3. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For people who
      (i) are sufficiently intelligent to enter MIT (or similar); but
      (ii) are interested in application of technology to benevolent causes rather than application of technology to their bank account
      to refuse an acceptance or to leave the university and instead do what they believe is right on their own?

      If you want to force any organisation to change its behaviour, as any fule kno, you withold labour. Top universities exist on the reputation of a tiny minority of dedicated academics, but their business is processing journeymen who either stop at graduation or do a small amount of research work to launch them into a high-paying commercial job.

      To take an example, the director of my MSc programme resigned in angry disgust at the increasing commercialisation of higher education but most academics are too scared to leave the security of their tenure (or quasi-tenure). His action encouraged me as a student to take a look at politics in the university and higher education in general, and I aborted my research plans out of principle. Interestingly, my cousin at the LSE did the same as a final year PhD student.

    4. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by mikael_j · · Score: 2

      What is wrong with competition?

      Competition isn't inherently bad, but competition can be pointless and even a lot less useful than competition.

      In general competition can be fun, it can be a challenge. But, in today's world we're expected to always compete whether we want to or not, all day every day you're expected to constantly try to be better than the other guy (or girl). We're living in a world where "Good enough" for many people means you're first on the chopping block when the next round of layoffs starts. Where "Good enough" just isn't good enough...

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    5. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      "...even a lot less useful than cooperation."

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    6. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You sound like a sad little hippie who still has a chip on his shoulder because some jocks picked on him a decade or two prior.

      Where I went to school, "jocks" wouldn't have passed the entrance exam. I dislike my elite past, but I'm not going to deny it.

      What is wrong with competition?

      What is right with competition? There are times when it seems to work but there is nothing inherently good about it.

      And you propose a losers-distribute-winnings-equally environment?

      You're paying no attention. I propose that the intelligent act out of a desire to achieve good things in their discipline rather than to profit. There are 7 billion people in the world - more than enough who are both clever and benevolent. We simply have no need of the "gr8 people like me need $$$ incentive to support you!" mantra any more - it's a more outdated idea than RIAA, which is why certain groups are trying so hard to cling on to it.

    7. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alright, you have explained in several posts above your point of view about what is wrong with the current system. You also explained that both you and your cousin refused to take part in the status quo. Refusal is only the first half of a solution though.

      Now what is your suggestion to establish a better system? Especially, what alternative system do you propose that provides an educational and scientific environment that is on par with or at least not substantially worse than that at the MIT? What steps do you propose to reach that goal?

      For the record: I am taking you seriously. Sad that I have to say that, but this is Slashdot after all.

    8. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Lazy+Jones · · Score: 1

      MIT epitomises the competitive, winner-takes-it-all, might-makes-right environment which is keeping half the world in poverty.

      I have my doubts that "competitive" is the problem. If you ask people to participate in improving something, some will join for the sake of it, for some greater cause, but only if they perceive the goal to be of equal benefit to everyone. If instead the goal is considered profitable for a corporation or person, they will demand a prize or refuse to participate even on a winner-takes-it-all basis and ask for renumeration whatever the outcome / the quality of their contribution. Conclusion? Most goals we are taught or asked to pursue are perceived as "not for the greater good" and of less benefit to the pursuer than to someone else, including academic honours and solutions to global issues - and our time is our money, we're all capitalists now. Furthermore, I haven't noticed (non-competitive?) women standing out from the crowd...
      But what would make you design a $1000 shelter for earthquake survivors? The absence of a prize? An NGO starting a competition instead of MIT? 100 people already working on a design and publishing their work for free? Renumeration for your time?

      --
      "I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
    9. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have I told you lately, that I love you, Hazel Bergeron?

    10. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by BlackSabbath · · Score: 1

      > When you've accepted that offer, you've already asked to be part of the system

      My MIT diploma? I threw it on the ground!

    11. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Weird. Ten years ago I called universities disgusting money-grubbing cults that turn out brain-washed debt slaves. I was ridiculed.

    12. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Especially, what alternative system do you propose that provides an educational and scientific environment that is on par with or at least not substantially worse than that at the MIT?

      I'll have a stab at this.

      At a very basic level, MIT is a series of houses filled with smart people. Maybe also some special equipment is required. If so, we might have to find for example miners and truck drivers and people who know how to build the machines that can build that specialist equipment, unless those can be found in existence all ready.

      There is nothing magic about the free market and capitalism. What it can conjure up by means of millions of entrepreneurs poking in the dark to see what will stick, could also be just decided together, organized together and done together. That kind of model has brought you the best encyclopedia and maps, it could be used for other things as well. Decentralized, democratic and unoppressive just do it-ism I call it. Sometimes I call it Ralph. It doesn't matter. Point is, it's a simple concept. Everyone gets to decide on everything. And we should try to do the right thing. (What is the right thing? I don't know, everyone should get to decide on that as we go along.)

    13. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      But, in today's world we're expected to always compete whether we want to or not

      This has been a fact of life since the first proto-cells started eating each other about 4Gyrs ago, the very reason cooperation evolved in the first place was it imparted a competitive advantage. You and I may not like relentless competition, but there's fuck all we can do about the fundamental facts of life.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    14. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by stranger_to_himself · · Score: 1

      Weird. Ten years ago I called universities disgusting money-grubbing cults that turn out brain-washed debt slaves. I was ridiculed.

      That's because that is ridiculous.

    15. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by mikael_j · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're missing the point. What I meant was that when compared to say, my parents' generation, my generation clearly has to compete on a different level. When I was out of work straight after college my father was baffled by this, when he was that age jobs could be had by just going to a company you thought looked fun to work for and asking them for a job. And in the workplace these days the level of performance expected by each employee is higher (at least in a lot of white-collar jobs). Basically our (western) society has become a lot more competitive and for the average person I just don't think the everyday gains outweigh the cost.

      Now yes, if you go back to the 19th century and the wave of industrialization that swept through the world things were worse, the point is that we took a few steps forward and then we started taking steps backwards again.

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    16. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by paiute · · Score: 1

      MIT epitomises the competitive, winner-takes-it-all, might-makes-right environment which is keeping half the world in poverty. Every dominant man starts forming his network at one of the elite universities, supporting research in collusion with exploitative business. When you've accepted that offer, you've already asked to be part of the system - to pretend to do something against it is ineffective hypocrisy.

      Actually, students at MIT end up there because they are obsessed with some aspect of science or engineering and are driven to seek out and solve problems, like this housing exercise. The problems may be profound or trivial or even silly (how to get a fake police car up on the dome, for example), but they are all just problems crying out to be solved.

      If these students had actually put some thought into getting rich by exploiting the world, they would have applied instead to Harvard, networked with the prep school future paper pushers, gone to Harvard Business School and then to Wall Street.

      If they happen to be at the moment solving some problem that doesn't strike your fancy, then take a stroll down Mass Ave and suggest to them the problem you want worked on instead.

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    17. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by hey! · · Score: 1

      MIT is not a university -- or at least they didn't claim to be when I went there. As far as it being elite, so far as I know you can't get in by being rich. I don't know their stance on "legacy" admissions, but it really is a non-issue because the bigger problem is *staying* in. At MIT they cover what would be two semesters of calculus in most places in under a semester. And as far as I can see there is no "old boy's network" for MIT alumni, although the institute would probably like to see that happen.

      As far as "old boy" networks at places like Harvard, I know they exist, but I think only in certain professions. If you are interested in investment banking, perhaps. But that's not really an elite university thing; it's part of the package of being rich and connected. People in money-centric professions like to connect with people who have money and know people with money. See the Clark Rockefeller case, where a con-man landed jobs in several financial institutions because of his falsely assumed name and his affected demeanor. He claimed to have gone to Yale, and despite having no connections from there that did the trick.

      I think the Clark Rockefeller case shows that the problem is elitism per se, not "elite" universities. Because they are hard to get into, social elitism attaches to it just like it does to anything else perceived as desirable but hard to get.

      The issue of business involvement in academic research is a complex one, but I think the answer is that if we don't want business driving the research agenda we should pony up the money in federal grants to support all the research that needs to be done. I don't know what you expect researchers to do without money from the public or the private sector.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    18. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you've mistaken MIT for one of the Ivy League law and business degree mills. Come back after you've done your homework.

    19. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      ???? Really you're making this comment on an open design that can be manufactured by hand by yourself with local building materials?

      How many houses for the developing world have you designed and published for the world.

      Forget it, you have to be a troll, can somebody so ignorant exist otherwise?

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    20. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then why do you need bachelor's degrees for jobs that never needed them? Why do you need a bachleor's to work as a paper shuffler in HR? What do you think is used to separate the good from the bad jobs? Why is the cost increasing all the time? I thought in a free market the cost of a commodity goes down? Why do you need new textbooks every year for centuries-old subjects? You can't learn by yourself?

    21. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Cooperation is a part of competition. People form alliances all the time. The baker does not compete with the plumber. Rather they are allied. Bakers compete with bakers, and plumbers compete with plumbers, and that is good because if they didn't, prices for bread would be sky high, and plumbers would never finish their jobs to the client's satisfaction.

    22. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      If you *really* want to make money in this day and age, take an apprenticeship for a skilled trade.

      Seriously.

      Don't believe me, ask the 24-year old who lives next-door to me, and is making $80k/year as an electrician.

    23. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the point is that we took a few steps forward and then we started taking steps backwards again.

      That is how a recession works...

    24. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      Vocational training is both cheaper than a college education, and is quickly becoming a rare thing in the United States due to a few decades; of focus on, "you need a degree to succeed." As an aerospace engineering graduate already working in the field, I have seriously considered going back to school for vocational training as an option to further open my career path. There are just so few engineers that can build stuff anymore.

      Moral of the story: If you're young and still in HS, and taking on at least $50,000 in debt to start your life doesn't appeal to you, go to tech. school. You won't have a fancy title when you get out of school, but chances are you will have more job security than someone with a bachelor's.

    25. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by midtown · · Score: 1

      Hello.

      I've been reading Slashdot for years, have never posted or modded anything and I would mod you up but I don't know how to do so yet. Anyways, I just wanted to say that I thoroughly agree with the thought behind this statement. I would write more but I'm tired and going back to sleep.

      Good post sir.

    26. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "(ii) are interested in application of technology to benevolent causes rather than application of technology to their bank account
      to refuse an acceptance or to leave the university and instead do what they believe is right on their own?

      false dichotomy..and an especially stupid one at that.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    27. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by geekoid · · Score: 1

      He just thinks Competition and cooperation are to different thing; which they are not.

      Privileged person disenfranchised with the way things are done, that makes the logically fallacious jump that what they perceive is wrong, there for the exact opposite is right and there is no in between.

      I doubt they have never been hungry. Being hungry and trying to figure out hot to eat for a week is an eye opening experience in the practicalities of balanced thinking.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    28. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by geekoid · · Score: 1

      COmpition pushes peopel to greater things. Competition means put up or shut up.

      COmpetition dribve new technology.

      Money is a tool, and the more you ahve the more you can do.
      I culd quit my job, go to some 3rd world shit hole and build houses. They wouldnt' eb very good houses, and becasue I am building the house, locals are getting anything for work.

      Or I can send 5 grand to the right organization, they can hire locals to build the house. so not money start curculation. This inproves that community far more then me going there and basically taking a job away fmo some local.

      Bill Gates worked for monwey, and now a lot of the poor benefit from it. WOuld they have been ebtter off if instread of starting MS, he went and dug wells?

      There is nothing wrong with privilege and money. They are tools.

      Or, you know, quit and bitch and maybe help a couple of people. Personally, I would rather have an Economist making a lot of money, and then using that money to better the world through creating competition on how to make good cheap housing then have them go dig a well, or whatever you imagine can be done strictly with good intentions. We are a competitive race, lets use that to make better things?

      This remind me of a Simpson episode:
      Marge Simpson: Ned! We meant well, and everyone here tried their best...
      Ned Flanders: Well, my family and I can't live in good intentions, Marge! Oh, your family's out of control, but we can't blame you, because you have 'GOOD INTENTIONS!'
      Bart Simpson: Hey, back off, man!
      Ned Flanders: Oooh, okay DUDE. Don't want you to have a cow, MAN. Here's a catchphrase you'd better learn for your adult years: "Hey buddy, got a QUARTER?"
      Bart Simpson: I am shocked and appalled.
      Lisa: Mr. Flanders, with all due respect, Bart didn't do anything.
      Ned Flanders: Is that the sound of butting in? It's gotta be little Lisa Simpson: Springfield's answer to the question no one asked!
      Chief Wiggum: Ha, haha.
      Ned Flanders: Oh, what do we have here? The long, flabby arm of the law? The last case you got to the bottom of, was a case of mallomars!
      Krusty: Ha, mallomars, oh, that's going in the act.
      Ned Flanders: Oh yeah, the clown. The only one of you buffoons who doesn't make me laugh. And as for you, I don't know you, but I'm sure you're a jerk!
      Lenny: Hey, I've only been here for a few minutes, what's going on?
      Ned Flanders: You ugly, hate-filled man!
      Moe: Hey, hey! I may ugly and hate-filled, but I... uh... what was the third thing you said?
      Ned Flanders: Homer, you are the worst human being I have ever met.
      Homer: Hey, I got off pretty easy!

      Money builds a home, not good intentions.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    29. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 1

      He just thinks Competition and cooperation are to different thing; which they are not.

      What?

      Privileged person disenfranchised with the way things are done, that makes the logically fallacious jump that what they perceive is wrong, there for the exact opposite is right and there is no in between.

      Lots of other people have posted about what is right. I think I've only posted here about not supporting what is wrong.

      I doubt they have never been hungry. Being hungry and trying to figure out hot to eat for a week is an eye opening experience in the practicalities of balanced thinking.

      Everyone is hungry from time to time and figuring out how to eat for a week. It's just that for some people it's much easier to find a solution than it is for others. You might already have capital somewhere which you just need to take a few moments to access. You might have the support of family to fall back on. Or you might be sufficiently healthy and able that you can say to anyone you know "I'll be happy to do whatever you want all day" - whether that's helping them with their work or doing stuff around the house - and in return they're happy to give you a meal and let you sleep on the couch or in the spare room.

      Whenever I've been in a third world[tm] country, I admit that I've never decided to deny myself access to money for an extended period of time and somehow disable my ability and health just to experience what it really means to be deprived. I'm not sure it's actually possible to do this without whacking myself over the head until I'm slow, alienating everyone I know, giving away everything I have and renouncing my citizenship - otherwise I always know I have something to fall back on, giving me the very security and hope that truly destitute people don't have. I've not eaten for a week out of choice, to see what it was like - I am in for those kind of extreme experiences - and it wasn't difficult. But it wasn't difficult because I knew it was my choice. I knew that I had access to resources to start eating again, and even if I was denied access to everything I had built up so far, I had my intelligence to enable me to find work and start again. If even that failed, I'd have the fallback of state support.

      So, how would you like me to punish myself so that I can experience this state of helplessness? And you seem to be implying that experiencing helplessness would make me less charitable - why? Because whenever I go through something difficult, it makes me think "how could this have been even worse?" and I'm more motivated to help those worse off than me.

    30. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      What I meant was that when compared to say, my parents' generation, my generation clearly has to compete on a different level.

      My parents were born during the great depression. The game's rules and the prizes are in constant flux, but the competition has always been full on.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    31. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      I disagree, there has always been competition for first place, the issue these days (compared to say, the 1960s) is that jobs are a lot scarcer. You can't just graduate high school and go straight into a career, you can't just quit that job three weeks later and find a new one the same week with relatively little effort. You can't work "hard enough".

      Yes, in a way I'm obviously wearing rose-tinted glasses but just listening to people from my parents' generation about what the job market used to look like and single-income households it just seems like things have gotten worse. These days a couple of 20-somethings who entered the job market less than two years ago can't reasonably afford their own house, my parents' generation could. These days you can't raise a family on a single average white-collar income, my parents' generation could. These days you can't expect to get a job straight out of school (college or high school) and you should be prepared to apply for at least a dozen jobs before getting to your first interview, my parents' generation could graduate and be gainfully employed by the end of the week with little effort (in fact, the country I live in actually had to resort to large-scale immigration to deal with the labor shortage that existed at the time).

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    32. Re:Mit is the problem, not the solution by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Yes, in a way I'm obviously wearing rose-tinted glasses

      I agree. :)

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  4. Not in the US... by Anachragnome · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This wouldn't fly in the US.

    Some construction union would intervene claiming substandard construction or what-not, code violations etc, etc just to protect their jobs.

    The pipe-fitters unions did the same thing when PVC piping came out--they lobbied for code changes that required copper tubing, changes that ruled out Joe-Homeowner doing the work himself. Most building codes make it very hard for the do-it-your-selfers, sometimes requiring them to actually get a contractors license. There is no reason for this if the work passes inspection--it exists simply to protect the jobs of people that need to get with the times, adapt and get on with their lives rather then holding back the rest of humanity.

    1. Re:Not in the US... by gknoy · · Score: 1

      Some jurisdictions have had their codes changed to support houses made from materials you might not expect -- hay bales, recycled tires, etc. Many areas might not, but it's worth talking to your local people to find out if you could do something like this. It might just pan out.

    2. Re:Not in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No problem. The US isn't flying nor taking off in any time soon...

    3. Re:Not in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Generally the local people will approve anything that has the engineering paperwork to meet local safety/efficiency bylaws.
      They're ALWAYS in CYA mode as they're on the hook for signing off on something that might kill people, and they're probably lazy. If you can prove that it will meet regulations and you're willing to work with them they're often quite reasonable. Once a design type has been approved and nobody dies, things get easier for the next guy.

    4. Re:Not in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This wouldn't fly in the US.

      It would fly anywhere, just not sure you'd want it to despite the very high surface area-weight ratio.

    5. Re:Not in the US... by migla · · Score: 2

      Nor in Sweden. I don't know about the specific regulations here, but just looking around, it is clear that one can't live in just any old shack over here.

      The standard of living doesn't start with a shack. It starts with a reasonably nice apartment (although in recent years the bourgeoisie have been laxing the rules for renovation). If, on a scale from 0 to 10 in standard of living 0 is the pavement, 1 is a shack and 10 is a castle, over here you get an apartment of standard 5 or thereabouts. If not, you're at standard 0.

      I don't know if we should let people live in shanty towns, though. I'd rather we built enough nice enough apartments and let everyone have one.

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    6. Re:Not in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wouldn't fly anywhere. If the purpose is to support the growing population, then you should make homes that last 50+ years. Look in Europe, where most of the old buildings are found. Some hundreds of years old. Yes, it's expensive to restore them, but you only do it a few decades at a time.

      They mention in the article houses destroyed by earthquakes. The USA also has hurricanes that level houses, most of which are prefab made to last a few decades and if it's not hurricanes, then it's landslides or floods (though those are the owners to blame, or the contractors for not foreseeing them) or, my very favourite, termites.

      I'm not saying to build using granite blocks and english oak, but we're in the 21st century, surely they can do better than that! (Oh, it would also help if the architects would be able to tell beautiful from ugly, lots of the "modern" designs are just plain hideous).

      And you know what? The cost difference between a prefab and a well build house is fairly small. In fact, if you compare their lifespan, prefabs are actually much more expensive. Especially since we're talking about family homes, that will see a few generations.

      But you know what? In China and Indonesia 1000 dollars is worth a lot more than in the rest of the world.

    7. Re:Not in the US... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      (Disclaimer: I'm not a conspiracy theorist, nut.)

      If you feel the need to make such a disclaimer in your sig, I'd say you should probably try to figure out why people keep thinking you are one.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    8. Re:Not in the US... by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      Well, I think the housing situation here in Sweden would improve a lot if the rules were a bit more relaxed. These days even if you do all the work you can yourself, call in favors from friends and all that you're still unlikely to get away with building a small single-household home for less than SEK 1,500,000.

      Hell, brand new studio apartments regularly cost SEK 5,500+ to rent (even though they're in less attractive neighborhoods).

      I would love to be able to build my own house but with the prices these days I couldn't afford to build a small summer cottage, much less a house (and this is in Norrland, not Stockholm).

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    9. Re:Not in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think I've heard about this thing. I think they call it hju-moor.

    10. Re:Not in the US... by migla · · Score: 2

      Yes, I think I agree at least a bit. But it should not be let out of hand so that "slum lords" (to the extent that they exist in Sweden) can let their houses decay even more while still not lowering rent. I guess those regulations should be easy enough to keep separate. No cockroaches and mildew is acceptable for the renters, for example.

      And while I like the nice standards for living conditions, homeless people should be given sub-standard barracks to dwell in until proper apartments are available, I think...

      Giving people homes would do a lot of good for society. An amphetamine addict (a common variety of homeless) will not lay about lazily on the granite floor of the doorway they broke into in the center of town. They'll get up bright and early to wander the streets looking for mischief.

      Give them a home with a warm and cosy bed and they'll get up much later and might not go out committing crime all day some days, even if they don't have their fix. Giving people homes leads to a spiral of good.

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    11. Re:Not in the US... by hey! · · Score: 1

      This wouldn't fly in the US.

      Neither would a job picking crops, but that doesn't make picking crops a bad idea.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    12. Re:Not in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lego Houses.

      Melt waste PET or bottles into Lego. Build. When done, run a ultrasonic welder over things and paint/splatter clay for fire / uv protection.
      There is a swirling ocean mass of raw material - practically free!

    13. Re:Not in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually, the building codes are not there to protect the contractor's jobs. They'd be just as happy doing shoddy work with cheap materials. That way they'd get even more work when the whole thing falls apart. The contractors can also take comfort in the fact that 98% of the population can't properly use a screwdriver. Joe homeowner is no threat to their jobs.

      The real reason the codes are in place is to protect the banks who really own the majority of your house. They want to be sure they can re-sell it and get their money back if you default. PVC breaks pretty easily when not installed properly. I had to dig a tunnel under slab to fix one once after a lawn mower hit the spigot. I didn't notice it until the slab shifted on the saturated soil. Oh, I almost forgot - the building codes also protect the insurance companies.

      C'mon, get with the times man!

    14. Re:Not in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's like jobs requiring a bachelor's degree that never needed one before...

    15. Re:Not in the US... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's clear you haven't been around much have you? So your saying it's okay with support a bay window with tooth picks because the code is just there to ensure jobs? How about a sagging floor because the joists you used are too long for the span without support. How about the house down the road that burnt down because someone didn't use wire nuts or put a cover on a junction box. Even better, how about just coil up a live electrical wire behind the wall because it's not needed. The general public are a bunch of idiots. I'm a software developer, not a structural engineer, nor an electrician. When I want something done CORRECTLY and SAFELY, I call in the experts. Do you want an electrician writing the web portal for your bank just because it's his hobby and does it on the side?

  5. Rosen Hotels Haiti house project by ildon · · Score: 2

    Harris Rosen from here in Orlando (owner of a huge hotel chain) was trying to start a project to create $5,000 homes for victims of the Haitian earthquake. This story reminded me of that (mostly because I wanted to double check how much they thought they could build each house for).

    Link.

  6. What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The design in the PDF broke most of the build cheap rules. Things like if there's a kitchen and bathroom you put them back to back to share plumbing and drains saving on pipe. If there's no traditional kitchen or bathroom then why call them out in the plans as if they aren't included? There's options like Lorena Stoves that are basically built out of sand and clay so other than metal exhaust pipes and burner covers they require little money. Unless you are building what amounts to a shack basic plumbing and electrical will run more than a grand. The same with windows. A structure can be build with little cash other than for things like fasteners, as in nails and such, if there are materials like wood or bamboo on the property. You can do your basic dirt floor if you have linseed oil to stablize it but even that will run you a few hundred. You can build a basic house for $2,500 to $5,000 if the bulk of the materials are gathered rather than being bought but making one for a $1,000 that has plumbing and windows let alone basic wiring is impossible.

    1. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wiring is cheap, electricians are expensive.
      I rewired my house (waaaay more circuits then necessary) for around 750 bucks and most of that was in breakers, A 150m spool of 14/2 is $75 down at the local Home Depot and a box and an outlet are around $2 is small quantities. Buy in bulk and things are much cheaper. That minimal 5 area house only needs a few outlets and a couple of switches/lights. Easily under $100 in materials to wire it up, probably closer to $50. Hell, build it in China and you don't even have to pay to ship the materials half way around the world, it's all made there anyway.

    2. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh yeah, plumbing is cheap now too. PEX and ABS cost next to nothing for basic stuff. I'd bet a good PEX crimper would cost more then the rest of the plumbing.

  7. Not for colder climes by Son+of+Byrne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I understand that the project was formed with the developing world in mind, but I think that the concept is worth pursuing in the developed world as well.

    The trouble is that all of the concepts that I read about sounded like ideas for a cabana on the beach. While that may work in spots where temps stay moderate year round, the rest of us could never make that work. Also, most of the ideas I read about sounded pretty light on engineering and heavier on design (architecture).

    I'd like to see this project expanded into something resembling the next generation of manufactured/modular homes. We're in sore need of reasonably priced structures that are within the realm of an average person's abilities that retain style and form beyond an ugly box.

    I agree that the developing world needs cheap ways to house their citizenry, but let's not forget to solve some of the problems that we still face here at home (in the US).

    --
    I'd happily pay you Tuesday for a biopsy today!
    1. Re:Not for colder climes by gknoy · · Score: 1

      The hay bale house had a pretty large thermal mass,it looked like. I've read about them before, and they're pretty interesting. They might be more workable in a colder climate.

    2. Re:Not for colder climes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree that the developing world needs cheap ways to house their citizenry, but let's not forget to solve some of the problems that we still face here at home (in the US).

      Well, one of the problems I see is the large amount of inconsiderate assholes that doesn't care about anyone but themselves.
      Do you have any suggestions on how we get rid of that problem?

    3. Re:Not for colder climes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In some colder climates they're already working quite well.

    4. Re:Not for colder climes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do, but the inconsiderate assholes always seem to have the guns; a situation which makes my solution far more challenging.

    5. Re:Not for colder climes by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      straw bale homes are still expensive because the straw bale is just infill for a post and beam house and big honking pieces of wood are really expensive and the labour more so.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    6. Re:Not for colder climes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looking at this from somewhere near the equator I get just the opposite impression. Most of the designs specify thermally insulating materials, angles for the walls, direction facing south or north, configuring the partitions for winter and so on. Lots of thought seems to be given to making a warm house during winter without the need for central heating.

      Around here most of that is a waste. In a cheap house you're more likely to need an open, airy design so you don't suffocate. That and sturdy walls and doors to avoid getting robbed at night :)

      Still this is an interesting exercise. The hex house is an interesting idea. The use of steel slag to make cheaper concrete is a good tip, which I don't think is used around here. The pinweel house is odd. The lack of windows is offset by the inner courtyard. Add bars on top of the courtyard and sturdier doors facing out for safety and it might just work for many people. I don't know how it would hold up in the rain though, the design doesn't specify drainage or inner walls to keep the wind from pushing in the rain.

      Still, cheap house designs like that might be a good strat for architects trying to figure out how to make affordable housing.

    7. Re:Not for colder climes by jfmonte · · Score: 1

      I understand that the project was formed with the developing world in mind, ...

      Then, why are most houses capable of 1 kid only? Something is wrong here...

    8. Re:Not for colder climes by John+Jamieson · · Score: 1

      Actually no,
      Yes, straw bales CAN be used as infill, but, it is not the way a real straw home is done.

      You build the walls by stacking the bales, compress them a bit - then coat the bales on both sides with mud, shotcrete or whatever. They are very strong, have some thermal mass, and because of the great thickness they have a good R value

    9. Re:Not for colder climes by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      I missed a by and large that's how most are made, if you want anything over one story. If not your replacing wooden beams with steel for compression. Still not cheap. It's still not really that much cheaper, yes I've thought of building one myself. And in developing countries justtrying to get a baler that compresses enough to prevent mold and rat/insect infestation is nigh impossible. Most developing countries don't even bale their straw.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    10. Re:Not for colder climes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...inconsiderate assholes that doesn't care about anyone but themselves.
      Do you have any suggestions on how we get rid of that problem?

      End the Fed?

    11. Re:Not for colder climes by mister_dave · · Score: 1

      There is the Tumbleweed House Company, they sell blue prints for _small_ houses. Not exactly the same as targeting price, but I'm sure there's a lot of overlap.

    12. Re:Not for colder climes by spauldo · · Score: 1

      For a more general climate capable house, there's a book written by a guy in the 70's about underground housing.

      He's got a site: Underground Housing. The book was for a place he built for $50.

      Now, it didn't have a bathroom or running water, he already owned the land, he got scrap lumber for free from a lumber mill, he did all the work by hand, and his land is heavily wooded (it was built in Idaho, I think) so he could cut logs for timber frame supports, but it's still a viable concept for cheap housing.

      The basic idea is that you dig a big hole into a hillside, use logs (probably with asphalt coating or equivalent) to support the roof, and make the roof follow the hill. The door and windows face uphill, although later designs had a back door facing downhill as well. There's a trench between the house and the uphill section, which you can use as a terraced garden (he covered it with plastic sheeting and framing to make a greenhouse). His original design had packed dirt floors, but he later put down a sheet of plastic and some carpet.

      Being underground, thermal mass isn't a problem, and you can put a stove on the lowest level to heat the entire house. A composting toilet and a simple rainwater system would work for plumbing.

      It's certainly not an option for everyone, but in hilly areas a solution like this would be equal or superior to housing currently in use in much of the third world.

      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
    13. Re:Not for colder climes by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Yes, if you own everything and can do the work yourself it's cheaper..shocking.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    14. Re:Not for colder climes by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 1

      I agree that it would be a good idea for a modular home technique, probably using a larger module. This one uses a 2.4 meter side as the basic square -- not quite 8 feet. A living room that is 8 feet square is a bit cozy. A dining room 8 feet square means that with a 36" table (card table) you have 30 inches on all sides for chairs. This house would be very much like living on board a small boat.

      I built my own home on a 24 foot square base. Even that had tight spaces in it, and the ground floor had far fewer walls.

      The present plan is for people who don't need/want privacy. Bamboo screen partitions are not much of a block to sound. And there are no hallways. Each room connects to it's neighboring room.

      PP has it right that this is a warm climate house. It would not be a pleasant house in a -40 Canadian winter.

      As a modular home it has merit. Here, you can move a module 16 feet wide with pilot cars, 12 feet wide with a flasher. A 12 x 24 or a 16x32 module would work nicely for a square house. Increase the module's length to 12x30 and even a module on the north side can have a south facing window.

      Give it a shed roof so that snow slides to the outside. An option for a 'courtyard cap' gives you another room. Glaze it, and you have an interior greenhouse, although one that doesn't get a lot of light in winter.

      Put a vent in the courtyard cap, and you can barbecue year round.

      --
      Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
  8. House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

    What is the point of a $1k house when land costs at least 100x that amount?

    There's lots of land available in Texas (to pick the state I live in) where it's around $200-$300/acre, and an acre is enough to put a few houses on. Granted, most of this land isn't terribly desirable, but getting a 1/3rd acre plot that's not too far from a city and not too bad for $1000 ought to be doable.

    Then there's the cost of getting services to your chosen site. It costs a bit to get electricity, water, and sewerage to a building site, or to provide a drilled well and septic system in a site that's too remote for municipal services. And then there's the cost of preparing the site for the structure. In much of the world the foundation would need to be much more robust (possibly with drainage, insulation, etc.) than the bare-bones arrangement presented.

    This is not to denigrate the concept of an inexpensive functional structure, which is good, but to point out that the cost of making a habitable house involves more than the headline cost of the structure itself.

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    1. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Then there's the cost of getting services to your chosen site. It costs a bit to get electricity, water, and sewerage to a building site, or to provide a drilled well and septic system in a site that's too remote for municipal services."

      Mostly due to corrupt laws. Yes a pit Privy can be done properly, but a simple septic leech field is not that hard to engineer and build. Electricity is easy enough to do with very low cost scavenged parts to make wind power and heating can also be done simply by making the place solar efficient.. in Texas you really dont need heat just insulation and a central fireplace for the 2 days a year it drops below 60.

      LAW states you must have X outlets per room, and XX amp of electrical service in the house. Hell they even dictate the number of Cable TV outlets required nowdays.

      A 500SQ foot pinwheel home is large enough for a family of 4 to live comfortably. If you are not the typical american slob you can get away with a pair of $200.00 Harbor Freight Solar panel kits and a couple of deep cycle batteries for electricity to give you lighting for the entire home and a couple of outside lights, and if you are lucky you can charge that OLPC laptop that is used for the rich kids. if your well is properly sized you can run it also off of the solar+battery system. a propane tank outside will supply cooking, heat for home and water.

      Very comfortable and sustainable.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by JATMON · · Score: 2

      Then there's the cost of getting services to your chosen site. It costs a bit to get electricity, water, and sewerage to a building site, or to provide a drilled well and septic system in a site that's too remote for municipal services. And then there's the cost of preparing the site for the structure. In much of the world the foundation would need to be much more robust (possibly with drainage, insulation, etc.) than the bare-bones arrangement presented.

      This is not to denigrate the concept of an inexpensive functional structure, which is good, but to point out that the cost of making a habitable house involves more than the headline cost of the structure itself.

      Instead of doing one house, what if a developer were to build a subdivision of these houses. The infrastructure (electricity, water, sewer, phone, cable) should be a lot cheaper per house. I bet you could sell these for at least $20-30k and make a tidy profit. Depending on the subdivision amenities, and who you market it to, you could probably get more.

    3. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Jmc23 · · Score: 2
      Most of the world isn't developed.

      Composting toilets. way cheaper than a sewage hookup and you get free compost for your fields. Reed bed to filter grey water and you get material for furniture and basket construction. Rain catchement with artificial pond for overflow. Way cheaper that a water hookup, and with bamboo sand bio-filters you get clean drinking water all year round as well as a place to farm fish. Solar ovens and driers and rocket stoves built out of compressed earth. Bamboo perimeter gives you privacy, construction materials and even food,mmm, pickled bamboo shoots. Lime instead of concrete 1/3 the price, fortified rammed earth foundations which are water/flood resistant.

      Really you don't need much else but a basic understanding of permaculture for your region. That is living a life of leisure and luxury for more than half the population of the world. Throw in expensive solar pa.les and you'll even make the westerners happy.

      You just have to stop thinking like a western sheep where economics are driven by consumption.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    4. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess we'd all have to move to Texas, then, where we could get enough sun for your cunning plan. The law for outlets makes sense -- they don't want people running wires all over the place, willy nilly, too much of a load on each outlet, they don't want fires. They're not doing it just to oppress you.

    5. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by morari · · Score: 1

      They're not doing it just to oppress you.

      No, they're also doing it to make themselves rich through inspection fees.

      --
      "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." --Paul Atreides, Dune
    6. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      The county inspection office isn't getting rich off of it. But there is a huge problem with the cost of regulations on the minimum quality of housing in a society where a significant fraction of the poor can not afford to meet those regulations. I know my parents would be perfectly happy to live in a 200sq ft shack if they were allowed to build one.

    7. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by frinkster · · Score: 1

      LAW states you must have X outlets per room, and XX amp of electrical service in the house. Hell they even dictate the number of Cable TV outlets required nowdays.

      A 500SQ foot pinwheel home is large enough for a family of 4 to live comfortably. If you are not the typical american slob you can get away with a pair of $200.00 Harbor Freight Solar panel kits and a couple of deep cycle batteries for electricity to give you lighting for the entire home and a couple of outside lights, and if you are lucky you can charge that OLPC laptop that is used for the rich kids. if your well is properly sized you can run it also off of the solar+battery system. a propane tank outside will supply cooking, heat for home and water.

      Most of that is due to municipalities getting tired of responding to fires, people dieing, etc because of idiots with bad electrical systems, cords running across doorways and who knows how many other possible dangerous scenarios. You have a fairly low user ID, so obviously you could build a good and cheap and safe shack, but your neighbor is a different story altogether.

      Regardless, these house designs are really quite modular so adding a conduit and a wall outlet to every panel (in the same place on each panel) is a minimal expense at the design/construction stage. Once everything is put together running the wire in the conduit is easy. It's probably going to be no more than $5000-$7500 on a home of this size even with an inspection by the most expensive licensed union electrician you can find. In the US, that's a trivial expense for a cheap house.

    8. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by tmosley · · Score: 1

      And yet here we are. The road to hell is paved with people who let others think for them.

    9. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by operagost · · Score: 1

      I don't trust the use of human waste for compost due to the risk from pathogens. It's a bad idea, unless you use irradiation technologies that remove the possible cost savings.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    10. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Here's a hint--irresponsible people don't comply with building codes anyways. If they didn't have those building codes, such "shacks" could be mass produced cheaply by professionals, and they could be inspected in the factory rather than at the building site. The net would be a safer building for poor people.

      But we would rather that they live in cardboard boxes under overpasses where they can be hassled by police to "move along" at 3am.

    11. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Amen, brother. Too bad regulations are such that much of that can't be done legally in the West. You can't even build Earthships without wading through a sea of red tape. Abundant life for all is available, but for the fools that stand in the way.

    12. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Kuroji · · Score: 1

      Five hundred square feet? Are you mad? Do you have any idea how LITTLE space 500 square feet is? That's a large studio apartment. There's room for a family of four, sure... room for their beds and NOTHING else.

    13. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      science trusts it, why don't you? We're talking compost not night soil. If you're queasy you can still use it to fertilize your bamboo or shade trees.

      Bonus points if you buld it so it automatically empties into a biodigester. Though if you go that route might as well get some pigs and build a seperate chute with a grate over it that you can teach the pigs to use for defecating to provide the buik of material for the digester and then you'll get usable energy out of it as well.

      People really need to start thinking about holistic system design. It's horrible to think how many seperate motors one has in the house, or heat sources, or cold sources, or transformers, etc...

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    14. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your completely wrong about not needing insulation in warm climates like Texas. I live in Florida. Most of the houses here have nothing for insulation. All it does is make AC units run more and in the winter its hard to warm up a house. I usually keep my a/c at 80f and in the winter use a space heater in whatever room i'm in along with wearing heavier clothing. While it's possible to not have a/c or heating, a lot of the world won't consider such an arrangement. Affordable housing is a great idea, it doesn't solve the problem that land is priced as if we are running out of it.

      In large parts of the united states the building codes won't allow such a small house to even be built. There's always the notion of property values to keep up. Generally a larger house is good for a consumerist economy. People have to justify the space they have so they buy junk. But then whenever people think about what they need it becomes a slippery slope. It's just as easy to say you don't need anything other than some food and shelter with no plumbing, electricity, etc.. as it is to say that people need plumbing, electricity, heating, etc..

    15. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a great setup for someone that lives in an area where bamboo grows and rain falls regularly. Unfortunately, much of the developing world does not necessarily meet those two criteria. For instance, living in one of the more desert-like regions in Africa could make a year round water supply a difficult problem to solve. I'm not saying it is impossible, just more difficult than implementing a rain catchment.

    16. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Check out Gaviotas, seesaw water pumps powered by children, cheap to build and can pump water from deeper depths than normal. Throw in moisture capture. Urine filtration through reed beds with solar powered distillation to purify for drinking, making sure to up nutrients. Deserts can be changed they just need time and good design, gaviotas being a good example of what can be done with poor land. Of course this would depend on the US not poisoning any possibilities by continuing with their stupid food donations so the farmers can get back to work to create an environment where geoundwater is a possibility/

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    17. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Never been to a developing country eh? Even in Mexico you have larger families living less square footage. Beds?

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      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    18. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Medievalist · · Score: 1

      ...if your well is properly sized you can run it also off of the solar+battery system. a propane tank outside will supply cooking, heat for home and water.

      Very comfortable and sustainable.

      Propane isn't "sustainable".

    19. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      There's additional problems where building codes aren't as strict. I'm here in Mexico and people in the city don't really care about getting anything that isn't like western style housing. The ones outside of the city aren't to interested in putting in more work in the beginning for a more comfortable lifestyle and tradition fights you every step of the way. Thosethat are ready to give up tradition just move to the cities. It's a little bit sad because there's so much possibilities here but the people don't just care for it. It's the reason why I'm moving back to canada at the end of the week. The irony being that it's rich countries that are more accepting of sustainable holistic development and are able to comprehend a greater investment of time, labour, and money at the beginning to achieve a comfortable carefree lifeatyle in the long run.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    20. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meh. There's this thing called a "variance". Mass factory built stuff built to high standards can get blanket code waivers in most municipalities. (At least for the wiring and structural requirements; not the "must have X frontage and be Y distance from property boundaries" kind of regulations). How do you think the existing prefab housing businesses work?

    21. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      Yes, the houses are just one element in the system. Utilities, roads, and shared amenities including parks, recreation areas, gathering places, and shops all within walking distance are essential to creating a livable community. To avoid a cookie-cutter monotony, there also need to be several house designs and variation on those designs, a street layout that balances traffic efficiency, local geography and noise, and a planning system that prevents nuisance, fosters convenience and aesthetics while remaining adaptable to change.

      How much would that cost, at minimum? I figure ten 800 sq. ft. (74m^2) houses per acre (25 per hectare) is a reasonable density, with the net lot size after the street, sidewalks, and ~1/4 of the total land set aside for other common amenities is 2050 square feet (190m^2), giving room for 6 ft. (2m^2) between houses and a 550sq ft. (51m^2) patio/garden area.

      That' 2050sq. ft. (190m^2) is about about half of the 1/10 acre area for the lot,
      750sq. ft. (70m^2) for the road, sidewalk, and parking/loading,
      1300 sq. ft. (120m^2) for common amenities.
      The average occupancy would be 3-4 per house, (with a range of 2-6). and a population density of about 20000 per sq. mile. (8600/km^2)

      To pay for these things along with the house itself, estimating $50K/acre for the land, would cost about $15,000 per house. On the other hand, one could get a house twice as nice for another $5000, so $20,000 is a better deal in the long run. That would still cost less than $5/day on a 15-year mortgage. Modest government subsidies (20% grant, 15 years interest-free loan) could get that under $3/day, or less than $1/day/person

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    22. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a minimum house size law where they live??

    23. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the tips.

    24. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A 500SQ foot pinwheel home is large enough for a family of 4 to live comfortably. If you are not the typical american slob you can get away with a pair of $200.00 Harbor Freight Solar panel kits and a couple of deep cycle batteries for electricity to give you lighting for the entire home and a couple of outside lights, and if you are lucky you can charge that OLPC laptop that is used for the rich kids. if your well is properly sized you can run it also off of the solar+battery system. a propane tank outside will supply cooking, heat for home and water.

      Um, no.

      This:
      http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-90599.html
      is the only solar kit they have. 45watts for $180. Two = 90 watts. Barely enough to run ONE 100 watt light bulb, not to mention "a couple of outside lights" and charging a laptop and running a well pump. Oh, and Batteries Not Included.

    25. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by TheOldestGit · · Score: 1

      I can't imagine this reply being seen, however I happen to live in the glorious Isle of Man (look it up - home of the TT motorcycle races).

      My 2 bed house is ~490 square feet, with a market value of ~£200K. That's quite a lot of your US dollars I believe...

      --
      Having Leeched on /. for years I thought Hmmmmm-Subscribe!
    26. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's about 400 grand and is on par with living in the California Bay Area, LA, NYC, Maybe Seattle and a few other places. And most of those you couldn't even find a place that small to buy for that price.

    27. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "A 500SQ foot pinwheel home is large enough for a family of 4 to live comfortably. "
      no, it's not.

      that's 5 10 by 10 rooms. Seriously not comfortable. More comfortable the living shit hut? of course.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    28. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      True.. but builders need inspection, so they are forced to, and when selling your home, again it must comply.

      So if someone does it incorrectly, they will have to fix it before the sell it so someone doesn't unknowingly buy a death trap.

      Also, when their place burns down, it's less expensive for other people.

      These buildings CAN be mass produced to code. Why do you think otherwise? There is a whole industry that does just that. Manufactured homes.

      And how you go from someone who can buy property and a house needing to maintain codes, to living under a bridge is baffling.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    29. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      The OP said "Comfortably." not "Better then a shit hut"

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    30. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      There have been huge issue regarding doing that with waste. Human waste should be treated.
        before going onto a field.

      UP until the 50s, the problem was so bad, the government out out a bunch of cartoons explaining that people should shit in the fields, and dispose of it properly.

      With 'natural' and 'organic' farming, these disease and illness are coming back.

      Look into the cause of the last 5 food 'issues' in the US. They all lead back to organic and natural farming.

      And bamboo is an insidious weed.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    31. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      There's a difference between doing it properly and improperly.

      Obviously you're some one with no vision. Bamboo an insidious weed? It's an excellent wind break, creates nice white noise to block out bad sounds, and you keep it in control by harvesting it for construction or eating it. You can Ake extremely comfortable textiles with it, weave it for shade or make flooring out of it. You can wven carbonize it to make light filaments that last longer than some cheap light bulbs.

      You might think better of it if you take it out of your ass.

      oh, and it makes great expensive fishing rods and chopsticks.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    32. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Your westernstuck up definition of comfort is different than the majority of the population on this planet. I really hope you're having a bad day, otherwise you're just an ass.

      --
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    33. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      btw, growing up my family of five did grow up comfortably in less space. Not everybody is a spoiled brat, and this is growing up poor in canada/

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    34. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only a complete idiot would use a single 100 watt lightbulb.

      if you had any IQ you would use 3 - 4 10 watt CFL lamps that put out far more light than that single 100 watt idiotbulb. and light 4 rooms. 2 of these kits would light 8 bulbs very well so now you can have 6 lamps in the home and 2 outside for "security" to keep the republicans away.

      sounds like you know absolutely nothing about electricity, home lighting, or solar in any way.

    35. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by ormondotvos · · Score: 1

      Actually, assuming bunks for the kids and a queen size bed for the couple, I designed a 400 square foot house back in 1975. It's still occupied by the couple. The kids are gone. My current palatial home is 550.

    36. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by marnues · · Score: 1

      Wasn't that long ago that most urban American families lived in less than 500 square feet. And the only reason rural families had larger houses was because no one else laid claim to the land and materials (except those pesky Indians, but who counts them?).

    37. Re:House plus site, services, foundation, etc. by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      What I always wonder about, is how long it'll take US'ians to stop calling natives indians. It's only been, what almost 400 years since you found out it waan't india?

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  9. how much are they now? by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    I know I've seen houses for sale in developing countries for $10k, including land. The houses are made of poured concrete walls and a concrete floor, which can be done in a day or two (they have subdevelopments much like we have here, but cheaper). Then they screw the roof on, which is some kind of composite. If you lock your keys out, you can unscrew the roof to get in.

    Also, surely cinder-block housing is around the same price as this house, which if you read the article, cost a lot more than $1000.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  10. Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Informative

    Some of the houses in the UK barely have room for the bed.

    1. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by Anachragnome · · Score: 2

      "Some of the houses in the UK barely have room for the bed."

      I remember reading another article on the same subject (no reference--sorry) and there was a comments section after the article. Someone had posted that one of the development companies building these mini-me housing tracts was also building nearby self-serve storage rental facilities. They sell you a tiny flat...and rent you the space to store your stuff.

      A mortgage AND rent, from one sale--amazing.

    2. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      The problem is that the UK advertises houses in terms of the number of bedrooms, rather than the floor area. If you look at an estate agent's web site, you'll see that prices are more or less broken down into 2-, 3-, 4-, and 5-bedroom properties, with only a little bit of overlap between them. When I was looking for somewhere to buy, I found that a lot of old houses had had partition walls installed in the bedrooms so that one reasonable-sized bedroom became two small rooms. And, weirdly, this increases the sale price. The place I ended up buying is two bedrooms, but both bedrooms are at least twice the size of bedrooms I saw in other places I looked at and the total floor area is comparatively huge (according to that article, it's about the size recommended for 5 people!). Yet, because it was only two bedrooms, it was very cheap.

      The article you link to is about new-build homes, and it's even worse there. The person they interviewed says:

      We made a big mistake when we bought it. They call it a three-bedroom house - but really it's only big enough for two

      As you can see, she's judging the house size by the number of bedrooms, not by a sensible metric. Property developers know this, which is why they build tiny 3-bedroom houses. These houses are probably quite a reasonable size for two bedroom houses, if the second bedroom is a spare or a study, but they've partitioned it into a lot of tiny rooms so that the usable space is nonexistent and they can sell it to people who only look in the '3 bedroom' category, and then look for the cheapest properties in that category.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by N1AK · · Score: 1

      People buy a house because they want to live there. You're right that people are blinkered into only considering # bedrooms in the UK; however number of bedrooms is an important consideration. If I want three seperate places to sleep in my property then it makes very little difference how big the rooms are in a 2 bedroom property, I'm still missing a room.

      If you're buying a property and only really need 1 bedroom then of course you can consider whatever you want. Most people buying want/need more than that.

    4. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

      Not everyone needs a house for "family life" and why the hell you need to put a double bed in every bedroom?

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    5. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by Rising+Ape · · Score: 2

      If I want three seperate places to sleep in my property then it makes very little difference how big the rooms are in a 2 bedroom property, I'm still missing a room.

      Partition walls are not particularly difficult to install. Certainly not compared to the overall cost of the house. The one thing you can't get more of easily is total space, so that's a better primary measure of the value of a house.

    6. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading that BBC article, it didn't seem to mention if they saw it beforehand. If that's the case, they deserved what they got.

      Seriously? You sold your old house and bought a new one... without so much as looking at a picture? Seriously?!?

    7. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by geekoid · · Score: 1

      So you turn it into a 3 bedroom house.. that kind of made his point.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    8. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Because I have tall children..and they have queens.

      Oddly I'm not that tall, and either is my wife...OR the mailman.

      --
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    9. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      My guess would be that they did see it beforehand but didn't appreciate how much smaller the rooms were because it was either empty or dressed to look bigger than it really is.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    10. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      Because I have tall children..and they have queens

      That's very liberal of you

    11. Re:Compared to some UK houses its luxurious by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      My guess would be that they did see it beforehand but didn't appreciate how much smaller the rooms were because it was either empty or dressed to look bigger than it really is.

      That is a real danger if they saw a show-house. A tactic used by 26% of large UK developers is to use smaller than standard sized furniture, which when done professionally is not obvious and makes the room appear larger than it is.

  11. But the real peasant-killer is... by macraig · · Score: 1

    ... where to put the damned thing that won't result in demands to forfeit one's firstborn. For fuck's sake, if one is truly desperate one could live in a tent with a price tag far less than a thousand dollars, but who's gonna let you squat on THEIR land for free with your inexpensive tent? That's right: NO ONE. The people who own land in excess of their need for personal space own it for one reason only, and the reason ain't philanthropic nor egalitarian.

    Land has always been and will always be the class divider.

    1. Re:But the real peasant-killer is... by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Have you not heard of the housing market in the states? There are complete houses with land selling for $5000. But the you would just complain about the la.d or the neighbourhood right? Here in mexico if you squat somewhere for 5 years it's yours.

      These are developing world housing structures, what makes you think they have developed world metropolitan land prices?

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    2. Re:But the real peasant-killer is... by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      There are complete houses with land selling for $5000

      Which is the same as these, no plumbing or electrical wiring. At least, not any longer.

      Here in mexico if you squat somewhere for 5 years it's yours.

      That is true here in the U.S. too. However, you have to notify the State Housing Authorities that your are intending to improve the land at the time you move onto the land so they can check to see if anyone else is claiming ownership. Few people know about abandonment laws.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    3. Re:But the real peasant-killer is... by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

      You forgot, "Now get off my lawn"! Literally.

      --
      Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
    4. Re:But the real peasant-killer is... by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      No, those are complete houses that people have been living in, hence the reason i was talking abou tthe foreclosure market.

      So really i guess US'ians don't really have anything to complain about then?

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    5. Re:But the real peasant-killer is... by geekoid · · Score: 1

      He was making a reference to the fact that many foreclosed homes have had their wring and plumbing ripped out.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  12. $1,000 is pathetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They should put up more prize money than that!

  13. Yeah but... by Firemouth · · Score: 1

    So they want to use these when a natural disaster occurs, right? How well are these houses going to hold up when they get hit by a natural disaster?

    1. Re:Yeah but... by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Let's see, go read the article and you might just find out.

      News for nerds? Or news for lazy people who can't research anything on their own let alone click on a link.

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  14. www.architectureforhumanity.org by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look it up.

  15. The devil is always in the details by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is a cute student project, but most would be considered "seasonal" shelter in even basic developed countries. I applaud the creativity, especially of the pinwheel house. Other houses sounded a bit more like a scavenger hunt that could have been done by any 5th year studio student in US architectural schools.

    I would certainly hope that, given an entire year of studio work, there is more to the final product than the marketing brochure that came out of the pinwheel house. Part of the practice of architecture (which these students, we presume, would like to eventually be) is making buildings which are buildable. That means detailed drawings of each part which is not OTS hardware - but I see nothing. Does the robotics team get to draw a picture of a walking robot, or do they have to actually do piece drawings and wiring diagrams to actually build the robot?

    To be fair, with skilled assembly, it is certainly better than most slum housing - but without skilled labor it may not be much better. None of the designs, save possibly the concrete roof, could be considered water tight for any length of time as initially reviewed, and few appear to have any chance of surviving a 50 year environmental event, much less protecting the occupants. I guess if they're cheap to build (just 6 years of the average 3rd world persons salary, by the website's count), you could see them as disposable and just build them again after each typhoon or earthquake.

    From one of the linked sites:

    "MIT 1K House is partnering with Skanska and Next Phase Studios to construct three exhibit 1K House prototypes in on MIT campus in Cambridge, MA. The project is moving forward, and the goal is to construct the prototypes by MIT Commencement on June 4, 2010. "

    What I want to know it - if Skanska supposedly built 3 of these prototypes on the MIT campus in 2010, how much did it cost? I didn't see pictures, so I presume that the Skanska bid came in somewhere north of $3000 (or even the $6000 estimate for Philippines construction). IT doesn't appear that any of these houses has actually ever been built.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:The devil is always in the details by Jmc23 · · Score: 1
      Perhaps you need to read the links better. The price of actual construction and the province in china are all there.

      Perhaps you've never been to developing countries? This is a palace compared to some of the shacks here in mexico, even in the mountains where there's snow and water freezes. A large part of the country has no indoor heating maki.g nights here in the mountains colder than winters in canada.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    2. Re:The devil is always in the details by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      The problem is, no matter how pretty you design your house, you're still going to need a minimum amount of building material. If you build your house out of cinderblock, you're going to pay $1.50 a cinderblock no matter what. If you build it out of wood, you're going to pay $10 per 2x4. The only way to reduce cost is to find cheaper building materials, but then you're starting to look at mud (sun-baked adobe) bricks for 30 cents each. Or a mud/bamboo hut. Which is actually an acceptable place to live.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  16. Solution? Talk to those you are trying to "help" by adam · · Score: 5, Insightful
    The New York Times rad an op-ed a few months ago on a similar project (Harvard's $300 house) that says basically everything I'd want to say here. It's worth reading, but I'll quote the most relevant portion(s):

    The writers created a competition, asking students, architects and businesses to compete to design the best prototype for a $300 house (their original sketch was of a one-room prefabricated shed, equipped with solar panels, water filters and a tablet computer). The winner will be announced this month. But one expert has been left out of the competition, even though her input would have saved much time and effort for those involved in conceiving the house: the person who is supposed to live in it [in Mumbai] We recently showed around a group of Dartmouth students involved in the project who are hoping to get a better grasp of their market. They had imagined a ready-made constituency of slum-dwellers eager to buy a cheap house that would necessarily be better than the shacks they’d built themselves. But the students found that the reality here is far more complex than their business plan suggested. To start with, space is scarce. There is almost no room for new construction or ready-made houses. Most residents are renters, paying $20 to $100 a month for small apartments. Those who own houses have far more equity in them than $300 — a typical home is worth at least $3,000. Many families have owned their houses for two or three generations, upgrading them as their incomes increase. With additions, these homes become what we call “tool houses,” acting as workshops, manufacturing units, warehouses and shops. They facilitate trade and production, and allow homeowners to improve their living standards over time. None of this would be possible with a $300 house, which would have to be as standardized as possible to keep costs low. No number of add-ons would be able to match the flexibility of need-based construction. In addition, construction is an important industry in neighborhoods like Dharavi. Much of the economy consists of hardware shops, carpenters, plumbers, concrete makers, masons, even real-estate agents. Importing pre-fabricated homes would put many people out of business, undercutting the very population the $300 house is intended to help. Worst of all, companies involved in producing the house may end up supporting the clearance and demolition of well-established neighborhoods to make room for it. The resulting resettlement colonies, which are multiplying at the edges of cities like Delhi and Bangalore, may at first glance look like ideal markets for the new houses, but the dislocation destroys businesses and communities.

    A recent (PBS-affilliated POV) film, Good Fortune , expands further on the damage that can be done via good intentions when it comes to rehousing folks.

    Many economists, journalists, physicians, and so forth have written extensively about the aid industry, and the White/Educated/Western/Elite-knows-best mentality. I certainly am no exception — I moved to Ghana with notions of making solar lights in my spare time, so that persons without grid-access could see at night, only to come to understand that this was a product that most people in the place I was living would have little interest in. It didn't matter that I'd spent months figuring out how to cram solar panels and LEDs into wire-bale jars, media blast them with garnet to diffuse the light better, and so on ... it wasn't something they would have wanted. I helped vaccinate kids, which was something they wanted, and everyone won.

    For some more literature on this sort of thing, I'd recommend William Easterly's

    --
    I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.
  17. But in the USA.... by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/

    This is the trick to get around the obtuse American building laws. Make it a trailer. Still a lot more than $1000.00 if you go nuts, but you could build one for around that price if you were good with scavenging and built it yourself.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:But in the USA.... by Duradin · · Score: 1

      Better the obtuse American building laws than the straight forward Hammurabi building laws.

  18. Well... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    You're missing the point. What I meant was that when compared to say, my parents' generation, my generation clearly has to compete on a different level.

    The world did get a lot smaller in the meantime, while the number of competitors surged to twice what the entire population of the world was back then.
    That's what happens when former ideological enemies become competitors - particularly when the guiding philosophy of the winning side is that "it's a dog-eat-dog world".

    Your parents probably had to "compete" with only the local population of your state, or even only the local population of your town.
    You, me, the next generation... we now have a whole world to compete with.
    And that is a losing battle for any individual.

    Which is why the god invented teams. Or was that one of those Marxists? Groucho possibly?
    Problem is, when your underlying philosophy is one of competition and individual-hero worship, your teams are only good for breeding leaders and team-commanders through in-team competition.

    Which is great for everyone, cause as soon as you have someone above you to command you - you don't have to think for yourself anymore! No... wait...
    Which is great for everyone cause it breeds an ideology of permanent leader-climbing, making all your team members (and everyone else you know) just another stepping stone on your road to your personal happiness... Hmm...
    Which is great for everyone cause it's neater to remember just one man than the entire team of people and simpler to ascribe the accomplishments to hard work of many to "the genius" or "the leadership" of one... No... that's not it either...

    I GOT IT!
    Which is great for everyone cause it validates individual greed as the core driving force of the society making it a perfectly moral motivation!
    Yes! That's got to be it!

    Cause we all know that any commie-pinko motivation for the greater good of the team, community, society or the world and the human race leads to all of us speaking Russian and eating borscht.
    In the snow. Lots and lots of snow. But no Christmas.
    There is no Christmas (or presents) in the GULAGS!!!

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  19. solving the wrong problem by optimism · · Score: 1

    ...an extraordinary challenge to provide safe and healthy homes for the world's burgeoning population...

    We don't need more homes; we need a smaller population.

    Treating this symptom will only make the disease worse. Give people a "safe & healthy home" and they are more likely to have more kids in it.

    The smart kids at MIT should be working on global birth control education instead.

    1. Re:solving the wrong problem by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "Give people a "safe & healthy home" and they are more likely to have more kids in it."

      which is contrary to every fact..but hey, lets not let data and facts get in the way of your moronic ideas.

      "The smart kids at MIT should be working on global birth control education instead."
      yes.

       

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  20. First off... It's a $5,925 house. by denzacar · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Which is a funny way of writing $1000.

    Second, that is slightly over a $1.5k more than the Chinese per capita GDP of about $4,382.
    Compared to the average US per capita GDP that is about as much as a $60k house.
    Do I really need to comment that?

    And all that is before even getting a building permit.
    Which is often the greatest single expense when building a house in the third world and other "growing democracies" due to inefficiencies of the bureaucracy and the built-in culture of bribes and corruption.

    Now... as this is apparently hailed as a "low-cost home for the poor", let's go see what the really poor make.
    You know, countries where that imaginary $1000 is approximately around or over the per capita GDP.

    Even at a $1000 per house an average Nigerian could not afford it - regardless of the picture all those CNN commercials for Nigerian banks are trying to paint.
    At $5,925 he might as well start making plans for a house made out of gold.

    I just like house the house can be infinitely expandable, building larger pinwheels around the outside until it becomes insanely difficult to reach the center.

    See? This is why Lex Luthor is such a brilliant criminal mind.
    He knows (as did his father) that the land is the only resource they are not making more of.
    Well... other than time. They are making even less of that one. But time-travel is not really his thing.

    You expand UPWARD - not outward.
    Expanding out wastes space. That is why all those big population centers, I think they are called cities, have all those tall buildings.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    1. Re:First off... It's a $5,925 house. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now... as this is apparently hailed as a "low-cost home for the poor", let's go see what the really poor make.
      You know, countries where that imaginary $1000 is approximately around or over the per capita GDP.

      Absolutely! I mean, there's no way that the price would ever come down. It's going to be $5k now and forever.

      Really, no government or NGO would ever think of helping subsidize the cost.

      And, of course, nobody ever buys a home that costs more than they make in a year.

      I mean, even if they did, there's no organizations or mechanisms that would allow an individual to pay off the cost of such a major purchase over time!

      Besides, everyone knows that cities are the only place people live anymore.

    2. Re:First off... It's a $5,925 house. by operagost · · Score: 2

      China doesn't want any more people in their (existing) cities, because for various reasons (mostly involving the stupid, oppressive decisions of the Chinese government itself) people are fleeing the countryside to the cities in large numbers. Inexpensive homes like these can keep people in decent living conditions in rural areas.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    3. Re:First off... It's a $5,925 house. by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 2

      No, you're confusing two different things. The pinwheel house cost $5925 to build. It was not part of the MIT $1K house project. Rather, it inspired the project. The goal of the MIT project is to produce designs that can be built for only $1000.

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    4. Re:First off... It's a $5,925 house. by J.+T.+MacLeod · · Score: 1

      The equivalent of a $60,000 new house is still fantastic. There are things called loans, and even people who don't make much can get them. Moreover, the cheaper the housing is the more of them we can get built with subsidization and charity given from regions making much more money. Plus, the price will come down. One has to start somewhere.

      As far as building upward... people in rural areas don't have to worry about that. They have lots of land. Seeing a handful of people cram into tall, dense structures when there are thousands and thousands of square kilometers stretching out around is fairly ridiculous. They can rebuild upward when their economy and population density call for it.

    5. Re:First off... It's a $5,925 house. by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't take all that much space -- I figure for residential communities 8600 people per km^2 (half private home lots, 1300sq. ft.= 120m^2 each, average 3.5 residents each, still leaving over half the space for roads and common amenities). For a city with workplaces, schools and so forth let's reduce the density to 4000 people/km^2. At that density, China could house 1.2 billion people in 500 cities of 2.4 million each, with each of them being only 600 km^2, equivalent to a circle less than 28km diameter (just over 17 miles). The total area of all the cities together is 300,000km^2, equivalent to a circle 618km in diameter (384 mi), about 1/32 of China's area. Not impossible, and that's using just 22% of the city land for residential lots.

      With 3-story buildings and eliminating the private gardens to allow apartment buildings with 3600sq. ft. interiors averaging 18 residents each on the same 120m^2 lots, the city area could be reduced - but unless everything else in the city is scaled to match, the reduction in size is less than 18%. The basic issue persists even if all residents are in 20-story apartment blocks and the office jobs are also in similar buildings. The roads and parks hardly stack at all, and the factories, restaurants and shops only stack a bit, likely only about a factor of 2 on average. Overall, without eliminating parks, factories, and other amenities and necessities it's virtually impossible to get more than a factor of 3 reduction in area compared to having single-story, single-family homes with back gardens. A really radical, unpleasant, economically and logistically unsustainable city that pushes many of its essentials out to other places could maybe get up to a factor of 6 reduction in area, but that would really just be an accounting trick. The diameter of the city would only go down as the square root of the area reduction, so the distances don't fall nearly as quickly, even for extreme stacking. Overall the expense goes up and the quality of life tends to go down with ubiquitous high-rise development.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    6. Re:First off... It's a $5,925 house. by denzacar · · Score: 1

      As far as building upward... people in rural areas don't have to worry about that. They have lots of land. Seeing a handful of people cram into tall, dense structures when there are thousands and thousands of square kilometers stretching out around is fairly ridiculous. They can rebuild upward when their economy and population density call for it.

      Haven't seen many rural third world self-built houses have you?

      The equivalent of a $60,000 new house is still fantastic. There are things called loans, and even people who don't make much can get them. Moreover, the cheaper the housing is the more of them we can get built with subsidization and charity given from regions making much more money.

      Yup. Haven't seen many rural third world self-built houses.

      It starts with a plot of land as close to the geographical center of the town/village OR the road that leads there.
      In many cases it ends up being a building with zero squared feet/meters of yard, you literally step out into the street from the front door.
      Naturally, it's probably built completely illegally, keeping the bribe money for the officials of the power company and for the representatives of other utilities.
      Cause, there are MANY ways for preventing someone from tearing down your illegally built building (from small children, pregnant women, bedridden individuals kept inside the home at all times, various legal loop holes, more bribing and finally guns) but there are precious few ways of providing electricity and running water to a building.
      So, first you build the house and then later you can legalize it.
      Naturally, it is easier to legalize a house with a smaller footprint - cause if you have money for a large house that indicates that you have the money for a large bribe too.

      The new family home is built as a single floor building, with only a concrete slab for ceiling as you don't really need a roof if there is not much snowfall in your area.
      Also, outer walls are bare brick with no isolation or facade to speak of. That comes much later.

      Family lives in such a house until they come up with more money to continue building the house.
      Usually, it's motivated by the fact that the children are coming to a "marriageable age" (more rural areas), or simply growing up to be teenagers (less rural area) - so another "family unit" is built on top of the original one.
      Sometimes it takes years until it's in a "move in and live in" stage. Adding one room at a time is a perfectly valid way of building.
      Two sons? Two floors. Daughters are married INTO another house.
      The best part is, legally you are simply "adapting" your by now legalized home as regulations are mostly concerned only with the footprint of the foundation.

      The whole thing usually ends at around three floors, which is when the house gets its final roof and if the owner has enough disposable cash - outer isolation and a facade.
      If one or more children decide to leave the family home, i.e. moving to a more urban area, lowest floor is converted into a "business space" (a shop of some kind) or is rented out.

      Plus, the price will come down. One has to start somewhere.

      Yeah. I keep saying that about space travel. Have a $100 tucked away for my ticket.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    7. Re:First off... It's a $5,925 house. by denzacar · · Score: 1

      Inexpensive homes like these can keep people in decent living conditions in rural areas.

      Which part of 135% of per capita GDP did you not understand? $5,925 is NOT CHEAP for a Chinese rural family. Nor is a $1000.
      And that's a booming economy.
      1k house is hailed as a "low-cost home for the poor" - for most of the world's poor even that is an unattainable goal.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    8. Re:First off... It's a $5,925 house. by J.+T.+MacLeod · · Score: 1

      A little late, but your overblown condescension drove me to reply.

      I don't know how many rural third-world self-built houses *you've* seen, but I've seen my fair share. Apparently in different areas than you have. Of course, most looked nothing like you described because not everything is done the same way as it is in whatever (likely singular) culture you've observed it in.

      You can't simply reject efforts out of hand because they wouldn't immediately work in the situation you are familiar with. Other situations exist, and situations can drastically once that change is enabled. Of course, I don't see what your descriptions have to do with refuting my points. Not every poor society chooses to build illegally in the middle of town. Cheaper building methods benefit the poor who are trying to build shelter, regardless of how or where they do it.

      The price WILL come down, regardless of what petty dismal you make. Even a rudimentary understanding of economics or the history of prices of nearly any manufactured item or manufacturing method is a pretty good clue for this. They spent a larger amount of money than they wanted to build a cheap house. That amount is still smaller than what many impoverished people build houses for. That amount will come down in time as the processes become refined and they are made cheaper by economies of scale.

  21. Planning for the future by WileyC · · Score: 0

    While some of these designs are brilliant (and I haven't read all of them), what I would want as a poor rural homeowner is expandability and repairability. Sure, you can a cheap/easy from-the-factory solution today but what happens in six months when you need to patch a hole in the wall? To be a truly transformative force, the ideas behind the design should be easy to apply with local materials/labor even if the final cost goes above $1000 eventually.

    --

    /// Not a super-genius . . . yet. ///

    1. Re:Planning for the future by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Why is patching a hole a big deal? I bet 'hole patching' technology as been created..somewhere.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  22. I am certain that it will work by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    So let's say you go to haiti, and offer these to the government where they can spend money to help rebuild their houses..the problem is once all the houses are rebuilt, you are left with a sh*t load of these lying around....unless they were to evolve it further, and allow connections between multiple houses, making them bigger and one unit....that would then let some of the people just use these full time instead of rebuilding their houses, in a country that cant afford anything right now.

  23. Re:Solution? Talk to those you are trying to "help by CraftyJack · · Score: 1

    The problem is not $100 rents, or even $1000 rents; the problem is that some can afford such rents, and some cannot.

    Interesting. From that angle the $1000 houses start to look like homeless shelters or subsidized housing. (If people can't afford housing, then *obviously* the solution is to lower the price they pay.) In this case, the goal is to actually drop the cost rather than make up the difference between what people can pay and what housing actually costs. That's fine and good, but it doesn't get to the root cause.

  24. No plumbing or Electric by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    This doesn't take into account the plumbing, or the electrical wiring. Are they not considered esential?

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  25. Haven't seen MIT's Appropriate Technology lab? by Tekfactory · · Score: 1

    There is a program at MIT where the students develop low tech and appropriate technology for the developing world. I guess that teaching locals to make their own biochar that burns cleaner than wood or cow dung and will reduce air pollution inside people's homes so they don't die of lung cancer is an evil plot to support the establishment?

    Same goes for water purification systems, grain mills I guess too?

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/engineering/gonzo/4273674

    http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2007/smith-talk.html

  26. Don't forget about the Open Source alternatives by vkg · · Score: 1

    There's the Hexayurt Project, which is basically an updated geodesic dome and can be built up to 450 square feet for each module using only hand tools and a screw gun and the Wikihouse which is a fablab style design which relies on a router.

    A typical deployment for a family home would be three hexayurts made out of polyiso foam and then sprayed with ferrocement. Cost is probably around $1500 for that approach, but that's first-world costs. With hand-plaster rather than sprayed ferrocement, I think a developing world unit could well hit $1000.

    And, of course, a simple plywood hexayurt for disaster relief is $100 per family, half the price of a disaster relief tent.

  27. Re:Solution? Talk to those you are trying to "help by kingduct · · Score: 1

    Thanks for your thoughts. I've also lived in a poor country (Ecuador) and concur with everything you said.

  28. Re:Solution? Talk to those you are trying to "help by frinkster · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Ghana is not nearly as bad off as many other sub-Saharan African countries, and yet still there is much poverty. People living in the region (their equiv. of a state/county) where I used to reside are finding themselves pushed out of their houses as rents rise from $25-40/month to $100 or more per month due to an influx of oil contractors (now that Ghana has offshore oil pumping as of 2011). The problem is not $100 rents, or even $1000 rents; the problem is that some can afford such rents, and some cannot. In short, the problem is inequality. I am not so naïve as to expect the world will be perfectly fair, but surely we can strive for some basic assurances for all humans — adequate food, water, medical care, social productivity, and basic economic security.

    Excellent post. But I would like to point out that if I can build the $1000 house in Ghana for $5000 and rent it out for $40 a month, I am getting a 9.6% annual return on my investment. That is a great return these days. I wouldn't claim to know how to solve the problems of inequality, but a stable home at what appears to be an affordable rental rate is surely a good start. Why not start a benevolent landlord NGO that matches capital looking for a good home with residents looking for a good home?

  29. Re:Solution? Talk to those you are trying to "help by TheLink · · Score: 1

    Given the high demand and inequality, dropping the cost won't drop the rent, nor solve the "homeless" problem.

    With cheaper houses the landlords will just pocket the profit and continue to kick out the ones who can't pay the higher rents.

    What you need is a safety-net for those who lose in the game of Capitalism and Monopoly. Unfortunately many countries cannot afford to pay for that safety-net.

    --
  30. $1000 in the USA or $1000 in China? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviously two very different scenarios...

  31. Re:Solution? Talk to those you are trying to "help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm going to pull out the big one again. But why didn't the poor of Ghana want to buy your lights?

  32. To be honest, I'm not totally sure. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OP here, replying AC. To be honest, I'm not totally sure (also my plan was to give them away; something I now see might also be a bad idea for tangible goods). I think the basic explanation I would give is that living in the dark isn't that big an annoyance to them. I am wary of generalizing here, so I want to be clear that I am speaking only for my own experiences, in a portion of (southwest) Ghana. This is like saying Californians wouldn't want X; it may or may not hold true for those in Arizona, and especially for those in, say, Texas. So there may be plenty of places in sub-Saharan Africa or other poor countries where solar lights make sense and are highly valued by the folks living there ... but in Ghana I didn't find that to be the case.

    Basically people in the area I was living do have electricity in proximity to their home, if not in their own exact home. So at night, between the occasional streetlamp or other home with lights on, plus a lot of outdoor vendor stalls (which are basically flimsy wooden tables people sell stuff off of, and at night they have oil lamps on them), you can more or less see where you're walking well enough.

    Again, oil lamps are bad, the fuel costs money. The disease burden from breathing cooking smoke and oil lamp smoke is a big deal. But it's a big deal to me [Western-educated guy with interest in global health], not necessarily to some people in Ghana. So my overall sense is that people are happy with their oil lamps, and if offered the chance to buy a solar lamp to replace it, most wouldn't. If given a solar lamp, they would probably take it, but if it was made out of a jar, I'd say there's half a chance a month later you'd find them using the jar for something else, and the lamp guts repurposed or given to a kid/neighbor/whatever.

    Also, 99.9% of their electronics are cheap Chinese crap that put the cheap-Chinese-crap Americans get to shame, as far as flimsiness. I cannot convey how crappy the Chinese-made products there are. So when *I* think about a solar lamp, I think a rugged REI-type product; when a Ghanaian thinks about one, they probably picture a flimsy plastic thing that will break in a week or two.

    I had a Coleman-brand LED lantern, and the family I spent most of my time living with did, at one point, remark that it was pretty cool. The kids were always enamored with it, as they would be with any gadget, but the mother did actually say the equivalent of "you should mail us one of those for Christmas." But it was said in passing, as a sort of 'hey this probably only costs $5 and I guess we might use it' comment (was my sense) ... had they really thought it was awesome, I think they would have told me so much earlier, and much more definitively. Again, maybe her perception of Chinese crap colored her beliefs about my lantern (which actually cost me like $85).

    So in conclusion, I think it's a combination of crappy Chinese products coloring their view of all electronics, their own perception of who does and doesn't use these sort of products (fancy solar gadgets are for Obruni [white people]), and a lack of dissatisfaction with existing technologies and methods (however dissatisfied I may be on their behalf means little!).

    When I look at a project like Bogolight (linked above), I think "cool!" But, honestly, I have no idea if the average Haitian even wants a Bogolight. I would think yes, but my experience in Ghana tells me not to trust my American-calibrated barometer, that you need to know how Ghanaians, or Haitians, or Angolans think, before you can understand if this is something they will want and ultimately benefit from, regardless of how it may look from a straight up s

  33. News is from 2009 by disco_tracy · · Score: 1

    What have you done for me lately?

  34. PS by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

    Try wearing them when looking at the present, I find it helps calm the nerves..

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  35. Umm... no. by denzacar · · Score: 1

    $5925 house is the only house from the MIT's $1K house project - THAT ACTUALLY GOT BUILT.

    The goal of the MIT project is to produce designs that can be built for only $1000.

    I have a goal too. Mine is to be fabulously rich, healthy and immortal while making little or no effort to achieve any of that.
    Still haven't figured out all the kinks in the plan, but that is my goal.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  36. You didn't read the article by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

    You clearly didn't read the article, or at least didn't pay much attention to it. Let me repeat: the pinwheel house is not from the MIT project. It inspired them to start the project. Other than that, it has no connection to the MIT project of any sort. Their goal is to produce even less expensive houses: ones that can actually be built for $1000.

    How are they doing on that goal? Well, if you had followed the link to their web page, you would already know. They have developed 13 designs so far. And the cost? Here's what they say:

    Chang said that the project's biggest success so far is in China. "We can build a house for $1800. In the Philippines the cost is closer to $2000, but that's still pretty good. Our progress is similar to what's happened in the $100 Laptop project. The cost of the actual laptop is closer to $200, but even so, the cost is impressively low. If we build a house for $1800, it'll still be the most inexpensively designed house in China."

    It sounds like they're making pretty good progress. How's your project to be rich, healthy, and immortal without effort coming along?

    --
    "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."