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Citigroup Questions Whether US Spectrum Shortage Exists

alphadogg writes "For more than two years, the U.S. mobile industry has warned of an upcoming spectrum shortage, but two analysts at Citigroup don't buy it. AT&T, trade group CTIA and even officials with the U.S. Federal Communications Commission have talked frequently about a coming spectrum crunch, as mobile customers move to data-sucking smartphones and tablets. Smartphones use 24 times the spectrum compared to standard mobile phones, and tablets use 120 times the spectrum, FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski said in a speech on Tuesday. But Citigroup analysts Jason Bazinet and Michael Rollins questioned what has become the conventional wisdom in the mobile industry. The U.S. has plenty of spectrum for mobile broadband, but much of it is in the wrong hands, they said."

131 comments

  1. 120x, 24x? by yincrash · · Score: 1

    How is that measured??

    1. Re:120x, 24x? by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Informative

      In bribes.

    2. Re:120x, 24x? by obarthelemy · · Score: 1

      in data consumed/transfered.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    3. Re:120x, 24x? by cgenman · · Score: 1

      Per second? Per tablet? Per transaction?

      And what about data efficiency? A lot of the old cellphone standards are still supported, and they wasted bandwidth left and right.

    4. Re:120x, 24x? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Per tablet per month, I assume.

    5. Re:120x, 24x? by Calos · · Score: 2

      No, "spectrum" is not measured by the amount of information sent or received. It refers to "electromagnetic spectrum," and in this context, it means the range of frequencies suitable for wireless communication.

      --
      I vote based on politicians' actions, unless contrary to my preconceptions. Often wrong, never uncertain. #iamthe99%
    6. Re:120x, 24x? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Foot*hours/Newtons^2

    7. Re:120x, 24x? by tantaliz3 · · Score: 1

      Yes. Citations please.

    8. Re:120x, 24x? by tantaliz3 · · Score: 2

      From the article,

      U.S. carriers have 538 MHz of spectrum dedicated to mobile data and voice and are only using 192 MHz, the two analysts said in a report released Sept. 22.

      That strikes me as roughly 2.5x, not 24.

    9. Re:120x, 24x? by RingDev · · Score: 1

      depending on the freequency you can fit more data. So they could be saying that reallocating freequencies to take advantage of new technology that we could effectively get 24 times as much bandwidth as we currently have. But yeah, the whole thing seems conviluted.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    10. Re:120x, 24x? by obarthelemy · · Score: 2

      Yep, but available bandwidth is directly proportional to spectrum, and the amount of data you can transfer is directly proportional to bandwidth.

      The reasoning is: we consume exponentially more data, so we need more bandwidth to move that data, so we need more spectrum to unlock that bandwidth.

      --
      The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
    11. Re:120x, 24x? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      From the article,

      U.S. carriers have 538 MHz of spectrum dedicated to mobile data and voice and are only using 192 MHz, the two analysts said in a report released Sept. 22.

      That strikes me as roughly 2.5x, not 24.

      It would strike me that way if that's what the article said. Alas, it doesn't.

      What the article said is that smartphones USE 24 times as much as dumbphones. And tablets USE 120 times as much as dumbphones.

      TFA doesn't discuss how much more is needed, really. It implies we need a great deal more, but we'd really need to know the fraction of the users that have smartphones and tablets already to be able to estimate exactly how much more bandwidth might be needed.

      It will almost certainly be more than 2.5x, since TFA said we have enough, but it's misallocated.

      It will also almost certainly be less than 24x, since a significant fraction are already using smartphones.

      It is faintly possible it will be as much as 120x, since tablet takeup isn't nearly as high as smartphone, but, on the other hand, fewer of us actually want/need tablets....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    12. Re:120x, 24x? by speculatrix · · Score: 1

      er, yes, but you have to remember that this is a cellular network. sure, bandwidth for each cell might be limited, so make the cells smaller and have more cells.

      as it happens, most cellular operators have problems because they've not put in sufficient backhaul from the cell tower to the internet (via their central routers).

  2. USE ALL THE SPECTRUM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I did to make this post.

  3. Citigroup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Must be true.

    1. Re:Citigroup? by ub3r+n3u7r4l1st · · Score: 1

      Look at their stock price since January and that pretty much tells the whole story.

      - A former shareholder

    2. Re:Citigroup? by Hatta · · Score: 2

      All they need to do is borrow some spectrum and lend it out to 9 different entities, and they've created 10 times the spectrum!

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:Citigroup? by CyberSaint · · Score: 1

      That's not as crazy as it sounds. Consolidating the pool, and leasing access to all network providers would allow for much more efficient spectrum usage. You don't exactly 'create 10 times the spectrum' but you do have the potential for an order of magnitude more functional bandwidth.

    4. Re:Citigroup? by sourcerror · · Score: 2

      Woosh for not getting fractional reserve banking!

    5. Re:Citigroup? by dintech · · Score: 1

      Why only look back to January? More important is to look back to 2007. Shockingly, Citigroup's share price has dropped 95% since 2007 with 48% since the beginning of the year.

      - A former employee.

  4. Spectrum sale by Market by MatthiasF · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They should have sold the frequencies by market area (city, zip-codes, etc.) and not nation-wide.

    That's the real crux of the problem.

    Now we have large nation-wide companies holding up frequencies in large swathes of the country because they're dedicating their efforts in specific markets where they can charge more.

    Had the FCC sold the frequency on a market basis and required it to be used within a reasonable time frame, we wouldn't have these issues.

    1. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They should have sold the frequencies by market area (city, zip-codes, etc.) and not nation-wide.

      That's the real crux of the problem.

      Now we have large nation-wide companies holding up frequencies in large swathes of the country because they're dedicating their efforts in specific markets where they can charge more.

      Had the FCC sold the frequency on a market basis and required it to be used within a reasonable time frame, we wouldn't have these issues.

      It's similar to the way telephone numbers were allocated: in huge blocks, with no particular guarantee that any significant percentage of them would ever be assigned. That led to the explosion in area codes we've experienced in the past couple decades. The phone companies first claimed that "it's all the fax machines and modems that are in use now" but the reality was just an inefficient allocation scheme.

      Large chunks of IPV4 address space were assigned early on to corporations, universities, government bodies and others who had absolutely no use for so much space, simply because nobody even considered that 32-bits just wouldn't be enough. Not nearly enough.

      The FCC isn't showing much better judgment when it comes to wireless spectrum, or the Internet in general for that matter. Well, okay ... they know exactly what they're doing: generating yet-another artificial scarcity so that their corporate sponsors can continue to make large sums of money from us.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    2. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by TurtleBay · · Score: 1

      Not a feasible solution. If spectrum is sold by market, devices wouldn't be able to roam nation wide and a wireless router that you buy in one state would be jamming cell phone signals (or worse air traffic controll) when you move to another. I think the real answer is going to be localized networks with small cube transmitters on top of telephone poles transmitting at about 2-5 times the power of a Wifi hotspot. http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/02/07/1820240/alcatel-lucent-shrinks-mobile-cell-tower-to-small-cube.

    3. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Large chunks of IPV4 address space were assigned early on to corporations, universities, government bodies and others who had absolutely no use for so much space, simply because nobody even considered that

      anyone other than reasearchers or the military would have a use for "an Internet".

    4. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by hedwards · · Score: 2

      It's been my observation that a lot of the trouble with wireless seems to stem from a smaller number of high powered towers. Last I checked AT&T had like eight or so of them for Seattle, but the big problem was that they had four of them up north and four of them down south and none that I could find within the city limits. The problems are that one that doesn't handle geography very well at all, particularly for cities that have major hills. And second that it means you have a huge number of devices trying to talk to the same tower using the same frequencies.

      A set of smaller lower powered towers would have fewer devices per tower and a much reduced need to transmit through hills.

      That being said, I'm not sure how much of an advantage that would be in places like the midwest that don't have hills.

    5. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Large chunks of IPV4 address space were assigned early on to corporations, universities, government bodies and others who had absolutely no use for so much space, simply because nobody even considered that

      anyone other than reasearchers or the military would have a use for "an Internet".

      Yah. That too.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    6. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Miamicanes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > They should have sold the frequencies by market area (city, zip-codes, etc.) and not nation-wide.

      Great. So then we could have a situation like we did prior to the arrival of Sprint around 1999, when every city had different cellular carriers, and sometimes you couldn't go 50 miles away from home without paying extra to roam. In case anybody has forgotten, roaming charges in the US were still common AND punishingly expensive less than 10 (hell, 5 or 6!) years ago unless you were a Sprint customer. Sprint's network might have sucked in most places, but if you lived in a real city and 99% of your travel was to other real cities and the major highways between them, it was rare to end up someplace that literally had no service unless it was totally out in BFE. You might have had to go outside, or even climb up on a roof to get a usable signal, but at least you weren't getting charged $5 plus a dollar per minute the way people with Verizon or AT&T did. There's a reason Sprint achieved early popularity in Florida and Texas -- both states were horribly fractured between hostile, rent-seeking regional carriers, and Sprint was literally the only way to travel around the state without getting raped by roaming charges.

    7. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by bhcompy · · Score: 1

      Depends on the frequencies available(lower frequencies have shorter range but greater penetration through obstacles) and the regulations in the area. Where I live in So Cal, certain cities, like Cerritos, say that cell towers can only be located near freeways. Since the whole city isn't near the freeway, this presents a problem for serving the people away from the freeway. Thus, a few high powered higher frequency towers are setup near the freeways to reach those people that are not close to the freeway.

    8. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by mcelrath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why are we allocating in blocks and then assigning devices which are allowed to use fixed frequencies? Why don't we have software-defined radios, antennae, and something like cognitive radio to define on-demand spectrum usage.

      For example, when you turn your phone on it pings a tower using a low-bandwidth common channel to get a frequency allocation (like DHCP) and power assignment. Using a software antenna, it configures some internal hardware to transmit on that frequency/frequencies. Let the whole spectrum be used, by anyone, rather than block allocating in a way that is guaranteed to waste resources. This way, multiple carriers can share frequencies, even if they use different communication protocols (CDMA/TDMA/GSM). In practice, I'm sure a single carrier would effectively "grab" a frequency block in an area by setting up a tower. But the key is that if you travel to the next city, that same carrier could be using a different frequency, and your phone could detect it and use it.

      --
      1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
    9. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what's the deal with foot-longs? Why are we paying for food by the block?
      We can use the cameras in fast-food restaurants to measure how much you eat, then charge by the calory

    10. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      If spectrum is sold by market, devices wouldn't be able to roam nation wide and a wireless router that you buy in one state would be jamming cell phone signals (or worse air traffic controll) when you move to another.

      No, jamming wouldn't be an issue at all. The same frequency bands would be in use for the same applications nationwide just like they are now. The only thing that would change is that licensing for a given set of cellular frequencies would be granted on a regional basis instead of nationwide. There's no reason to think that this form of licensing would all of a sudden result in the FCC granting licenses for frequencies outside the current cellular allocations. Roaming could be a bit of an issue, but nothing insurmountable by the handset manufacturers. Phones would almost certainly get more expensive (and probably larger and more power-hungry) in order to be able to handle all the possible combinations of frequencies and channel access methods under this scheme though.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    11. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Rich0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, I'd do things differently:

      1. Forbid anybody selling cell phones or cell phone service from owning any spectrum anywhere.
      2. Forbid anybody from owning cell phone spectrum in more than one state.
      3. Forbid anybody from owning cell phone spectrum in areas totaling more than 10000 mi^2.
      4. Forbid anybody from owning more than 33% of the spectrum supporting any particular protocol in any particular location.
      5. Assign a particular protocol to any particular frequency at the time of assignment and make this assignment national in scope.
      6. Anybody owning spectrum has to publish their price-per-packet (or channel*time for analog) and charge the same price to all their customers and provide service to anybody (common carrier).
      7. Anybody providing spectrum has to give access at a government-designed colo facility - there will be a moderate number of these.

      In this model cell phone services can't vertically integrate - they HAVE to buy it from local utilities. Any area will have at least 3 local utilities running, which means pricing competition. Cell phone companies don't need to solve the last mile problem, and anybody with some capital can start a new cell phone company at any time and gets the same pricing as AT&T for spectrum use.

      And yet, since protocols are assigned to frequency bands nationwide (NOT TO COMPANIES) you get full interoperability of the network nation wide.

      Areas that are in the middle of nowhere that have no service today might have their local governments kick in some funding or incentives to get the network built out - or the municipality could buy up to 33% of the spectrum to run its own access, so this also helps areas that would otherwise lack coverage.

      Local rent-seeking behavior goes away since nobody can corner any market entirely, and there is no way they can charge discriminatory pricing. The local utilities just accept packets at a colo and send them out over the air or whatever model works best for the techology.

      And, spectrum could be re-designated for new protocols over time as technology marches on.

    12. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      Still doesn't solve many of the problems. You need a mechanism where an underserved area can fend for itself, even if it is in some other company's zone.

      I was negotiating with AT&T for a company contract, and identified three areas that needed commitment for better service in order for us to agree. They could pull off one (our office, with a cludge of 5-6 of their MicroCells), but the other two were just too much effort. All they really need to do is license out mirco-cells (not the femtocells) on the street lights and the problem is solved. But, their focus is on full-size towers, which is spectrum inefficient.

    13. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by yuna49 · · Score: 1

      The original allocation of cell phone spectrum in 1981 was done by market. In each market half the frequencies were assigned to the local wireline carrier, and the other half were licensed to other competitors. Nationwide coverage was arranged via roaming agreements, though consolidation of the non-wireline providers into larger entities moved the process forward considerably.

    14. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it does depend upon other factors. It's just been my observation that AT&T seems to be the only carrier that's not able to get towers installed within the city limits. T-Mobile, for instance, has almost that many towers in my neighborhood alone. (OK, a bit of an exaggeration, but still)

    15. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      But, their focus is on full-size towers, which is spectrum inefficient.

      Yes, but right-of-way efficient.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    16. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Chicken and egg.

      If there is a corporation designing a device to perform such an act, they would have to follow the current on-book laws that don't allow that type of action without pre-reservation of a part of a spectrum (or multiple parts) where this action could occur.

      If the FCC implemented the ability, then they would get pounded on by corporations that already have frequencies or ranges assigned to them. War ensues.

      With higher frequency ranges that aren't assigned yet, that's doable, but there's another problem there - range. High frequencies travel through solid objects much better than low frequencies, but the negative for that gain is that the overall range of higher frequencies is much lower (even without solid obstruction).

      Now we open a whole new can of worms. :)

    17. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's similar to the way telephone numbers were allocated: in huge blocks, with no particular guarantee that any significant percentage of them would ever be assigned. That led to the explosion in area codes we've experienced in the past couple decades. The phone companies first claimed that "it's all the fax machines and modems that are in use now" but the reality was just an inefficient allocation scheme.

      Actually, the area code assignments made perfectly good sense at the time. They were based on the population of the area they were serving. Unfortunately, populations shifted greatly since the time they were assigned (1930's? 1940's? I'm not sure).

      Even the digits in the code reflected population to minimize the electricity required to dial rotary phones. So cities like New York and Chicago got area codes requiring the least electricity - 212 and 312 respectively - while smaller areas like Atlanta and Southern Cal got codes like 404 and 408. Keep in mind this was done 80 or so years ago, and that "0" used the most electricity being at the end of the dial.

      So why not change it now? Think how hard it is to replace any legacy system, and then extend that out to a system covering around 300 million users . . . and maintain 99.999% reliability while you're doing it.

    18. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where's the +7 LOOK AT THIS when you need it?

    19. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      > Local rent-seeking behavior goes away since nobody can corner any market entirely,

      Utterly, totally, and completely wrong. What ends up happening in the real world is everyone rapes everyone else, then claims it's not their fault and they're forced to do it because everyone *else* is evil. Just look at Europe. I believe one multinational carrier there actually got fined by the EU for sloppy minute-counting that enabled their customers to avoid paying some of the usual roaming charges when using the same carrier's network in another country. That's right, they were fined for NOT raping their customers and charging the mandatory roaming charges when those customers used the same carrier's network in another country.

      AFAIK, there's not a single country on earth that started out with fractured, roaming-rich networks and ended up with (more or less) free nationwide use prior to the arrival of a new competitor who DID manage to buy spectrum nationwide and effectively roll out a nationwide network to compete with them.

      Making them locally-owned public utilities is even worse, because THEN they're politically motivated to offer dirt cheap basic service for local users (who vote for the elected officials who can hire and fire the utility's management), and subsidizing those cheap fees for local voters making local calls by charging the most outrageous fees for everyone else that they possibly can.

      There's already a solution for rural areas that the major carriers aren't interested in. Sprint has an entire division that deals with rural wireless cooperatives who are allowed to build their own tower infrastructure and use Sprint's spectrum for free in return for allowing unlimited free roaming by Sprint's own customers. Much of Nebraska farm country falls into this category. That's why there are places where Sprint's map shows service, but Sprint itself won't allow you to sign up as a customer if you have a zipcode in that area. I believe some/all of South and/or North Dakota, and other similar thinly-populated areas do as well. If you own a trailer park in the middle of the Nevada desert and want Sprint service, all you have to do is raise a few hundred thousand or million dollars, form a rural wireless company, sign the deal with Sprint, and run the infrastructure yourself (or pay Sprint to run it for you).

      This also neatly solves the rent-seeking roaming problem, at least as far as visiting urbanites have to care. The local government might end up coughing up 4% of its annual tax revenue to subsidize the local wireless network's construction and continuing operation, but it's contractually forbidden to try and pass those charges along to Sprint customers visiting from other areas.

      You're right that vertical integration is bad, but balkanizing the core infrastructure just fucks things up and makes a billing mess for everyone. IMHO, the happy medium lies in between... you want to have at least one or two nationwide networks, but once you have them there's no good reason to go on a rampage and try to force the consolidation of the others. Having at least a few regional carriers is good, too. Sprint ultimately forced AT&T and Verizon to make nationwide free roaming (and unlimited free domestic long distance everywhere) a reality, but it was aggressive regional carriers like MetroPCS who applied pressure from the OTHER direction to force things like nominally-unlimited airtime on all of them (the catch with Metro was that in its early years, your phone wouldn't work *at all* outside of your local service area, let alone roam at expensive rates).

    20. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      I believe one multinational carrier there actually got fined by the EU for sloppy minute-counting that enabled their customers to avoid paying some of the usual roaming charges when using the same carrier's network in another country.

      Well, the tower operators wouldn't have any relationship with the phone users - they'd just pass the packets onto their carrier. There would be no national operators either (the cell networks would obviously be national but they have no monopoly power).

      Making them locally-owned public utilities is even worse, because THEN they're politically motivated to offer dirt cheap basic service for local users (who vote for the elected officials who can hire and fire the utility's management), and subsidizing those cheap fees for local voters making local calls by charging the most outrageous fees for everyone else that they possibly can.

      They would have no way of knowing who is a local customer, since they have no relationship with the customers - they'd only know that SIM #12345 wants to send packets to AT&T and they'd have to charge the same rate to everybody as I stated.

      In any area there would be at least 3 companies, and that should help control prices.

      There's already a solution for rural areas that the major carriers aren't interested in. Sprint has an entire division that deals with rural wireless cooperatives who are allowed to build their own tower infrastructure and use Sprint's spectrum for free in return for allowing unlimited free roaming by Sprint's own customers.

      And how is this of any use to somebody who doesn't have a CDMA phone. I'm trying to get rid of the tower-tied-to-one-carrier-or-maybe-two model here.

      you want to have at least one or two nationwide networks, but once you have them there's no good reason to go on a rampage and try to force the consolidation of the others.

      With my model you'd probably have 25+ nationwide networks - how many long-distance carriers are there in the US for landline service? You can't count them, because regulation eliminated the last-mile barrier. It is probably cheaper to call from New York to San Francisco than from New York to some suburb 50 miles away for this reason.

      The nationwide networks would be analogous to long-distance carriers - they just connect peering points to/from the landline network/internet/etc, and manage the customer relationships. They wouldn't run towers. In any area they'd pick the cheapest rates they could get and make all the local networks transparent to the customer. And, I'd aim for a region size that results in a couple of networks per state, not one for every little town.

      I just don't think the current model works, because it creates these huge national companies that have huge amounts of power and which achieve regulatory capture. If a local company is ticking people off chances are their local government will be more responsive than they could be if trying to get Verizon to do something differently. If the national companies tick people off then they are easily replaced since the barrier to entry would be low.

    21. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4. Forbid anybody from owning more than 33% of the spectrum supporting any particular protocol in any particular location.

      Let's say I live in a town with no cell phone coverage. Does this mean that I have to find three companies interested in covering the town before I can get anyone to build anything?

    22. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      >And how is this of any use to somebody who doesn't have a CDMA phone.
      >I'm trying to get rid of the tower-tied-to-one-carrier-or-maybe-two model here.

      There's nothing inherently carrier-proprietary about CDMA, it's just the fsck'ed up way Sprint and Verizon implemented it. CDMA has a perfectly good standard for interoperability that's a superset of SIM cards called R-UIM (which itself is an optional subset of USIM). Go to a country like India or China, and CDMA phones are as network-agnostic and interoperable as GSM phones are in Europe. It's only in the US where Sprint refuses to let you use any phone they didn't sell, and Verizon does wacky non-publicly-documented things with their control protocols that cause most unlocked non-Verizon phones activated on Verizon to be dysfunctional in some annoying (if not major) way.

      In a very real sense, America's mobile phone industry is like Japan's -- very, very proprietary, mostly because nobody ever had the balls to force them to at least try and not be arbitrarily incompatible. Expecting Sprint phones to be interoperable with AT&T is a pipe dream, but there's no sane reason why a Droid X2 shouldn't work just fine on Sprint, or an Evo 3D shouldn't work perfectly well on Verizon (at least, if you don't care about wimax or LTE right now). And really, there's no long-term reason why LTE and Wimax really need different radio modems. At the raw radio modulation level, LTE and Wimax are almost indistinguishable from each other. The real differences lie with protocol and software (LTE arranges the bits in a way that makes it slightly more power-efficient than Wimax, but the real-world difference is almost academic; it's something that was done because it's a sensible improvement that occurred to someone working on LTE after Wimax was already finalized, but it's not a night-and-day difference).

      Moreover, there's no reason a tower has to be tied to one carrier or technology. If Sprint merged with T-Mobile, their newly-deployed tower equipment could be programmed to start providing 1700/2100MHz UMTS (and probably 1900MHz legacy GSM) service at every single existing Sprint tower site within a matter of weeks, because the hardware itself already has the capability of doing it -- Sprint just doesn't have the spectrum or a reason to do it. Legacy GSM can't share channels or timeslots with CDMA voice, UMTS, or EVDO, but they can all coexist on the same tower and cell site without problems. Worst-case, Sprint might need to add a new set of antennas tuned for 1700MHz and 2100MHz.

    23. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Moreover, there's no reason a tower has to be tied to one carrier or technology.

      Yup - that was also what I was thinking when splitting carriers from tower operators. If somebody has the right-of-way for a tower and they charge the same price to all carriers then it is in their interest to maximize the use of that tower, and that will mean supporting everything they can from every cell network out there to fire/police and you-name-it. The tower is a fixed cost, and the only reason to not support everything is to try to block access to your competition. However, the local tower operator's only competition is other local tower operators, and they have no way to block them - their only option is to provide better or cheaper service.

    24. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      No, one company can buy 33% of the available spectrum and set up a monopoly. Of course, your prices are likely to be higher until somebody else steps in. But, expensive service is probably better than no service, and they can't charge too much otherwise the big national cell networks wouldn't bother to buy their service at all or make it part of their flat-rate plans which will obviously be the most popular option for them.

      Actually, I'm fine with some kind of local regulation to prevent stuff like that from getting out of hand, although the usual utility monopoly power will not be there and the first company to set up can't drive out competitors by setting prices artificially low since they will have to charge the same price everywhere.

      There will always be room for a second company to come in, and only having 33% of the spectrum allocation won't interfere with service since presumably the reason nobody else has set up shop is that there isn't much demand.

    25. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by thsths · · Score: 1

      > This way, multiple carriers can share frequencies, even if they use different communication protocols (CDMA/TDMA/GSM).

      You should read Comms 101, and it should all become clear. You can mix different protocols, but not different encodings. CDMA uses orthogonal codes to divide the spectrum into channels, TDMA uses time slots. Or, to use an analogy: you cannot have horizontal and vertical stripes at the same time. That would be checkered, and in communications terms that is chaos.

      But there is great potential in "white space" spectrum. That is the spectrum used by TV stations far away, and there are always some gaps to avoid overlaps of neighbouring stations on the same frequency. There is potentially some low level interference, and you have to limit the power output, but otherwise it is perfectly usable. In fact if you check the spectrum, only a small part is actively being used at any one time.

    26. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      Well, once again, to a large extent, Sprint has done exactly that -- they spun off a new company (creatively named "TowerCo") to own their towers a couple of years ago (it might have been required by the FCC or FTC as a condition of purchasing Nextel). Sprint profits from TowerCo, but doesn't restrict it from leasing space to other carriers (though there's almost certainly a contractual obligation somewhere that guarantees Sprint a price that's no higher than what's charged to anyone else).

      From what I've read, it's rare for AT&T and Verizon to use TowerCo's towers, but that's more due to the culture and internal policies of AT&T and Verizon. AT&T and Verizon have a very "Bell" mentality that overwhelmingly disfavors the use of anything they don't control directly.

    27. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      ^^^ Just to clarify one point that I just thought of... TowerCo owns the land/lease and the tower itself. TowerCo does NOT own the spectrum licenses or operate the actual equipment. It's the equivalent of a colo facility where carriers (including Sprint) rent the equivalent of neutral rack space for use by their own gear and connectivity.

    28. Re:Spectrum sale by Market by Unequivocal · · Score: 1

      The FCC's national broadband plan developed a pretty interesting auction model for capturing wasted spectrum resulting from the DTV conversion. It will re-pack the used spectrum and auction the remainder. This is grade-a prime spectrum for wireless data. This repacking+auction would have been impossible to do with old VHF signal (why many channels in many areas were static), but is possible with the new tech. The auction model itself is quite clever IMO and so I would dispute that FCC isn't showing good judgment. Recognize that there are larger forces at work -- to get that auction model implemented, FCC needs White House support and authorization from Congress (I think as of this date the White House is on board but not Congress yet if ever).

  5. Too much spectrum is tied up by government. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They really don't need it.

    1. Re:Too much spectrum is tied up by government. by taxman_10m · · Score: 1

      Not now maybe, but what about in the future?

  6. The Wrong hands? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess they mean any hands but the ones that hand them lots and lots of money.

  7. Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by schnell · · Score: 3, Informative

    According to the report, the "wrong hands" with control of spectrum that isn't being used or is underutilized are:

    • Clearwire (133 MHz)
    • Lightsquared (59 MHz)
    • Dish Network (47 MHz)

    Almost all of the above spectrum is in the less-desirable 2 GHz+ ranges. Clearwire may be underutilizing, but Lightsquared and Dish haven't gotten to launch their services yet so you can't really say it's underutilized when it's still in process of being developed.

    All in all, this report actually seems to make the case of the big carriers that there is still a shortage of "good" (especially less than 1 GHz) spectrum for broadband. Much of that is locked up by the broadcasters for stuff that is comparatively useless (anyone watching UHF television still these days?) versus having it available for mobile broadband.

    --
    "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by Aighearach · · Score: 1, Informative

      you can't really say it's underutilized when it's still in process of being developed

      fail

    2. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      OK, wow. Where to start.

      First off, I guess, all of those listed bands are NOT in the "less desirable" 2GHz range, they are down in VHF. 133MHz is just outright wrong, I don't know where you got that from, but that's at the top of the aircraft band. For obvious reasons that is a very well protected and regulated part of the spectrum. If someone bought it up I doubt they will ever do anything with it, because the rules are very hard to comply with and there's no way in hell that consumer equipment would be allowed to transmit there.

      Ignoring the rest, you ask if anyone is still watching UHF TV nowadays. Yes, everybody is. What they got rid of is the VHF TV stations. Absolutely every broadcast station is in the UHF range.

      Along the funny side, a dish made for 47MHz would be about 10ft wide, minimum.

    3. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by garcia · · Score: 3, Informative

      Clearwire is probably underutilized because people don't want the towers which provide the service in their backyards.

      We've had a discussion about this in the past which I posted on (I'm too lazy to find it) where I said people in my area shot down a proposed tower because it would go up on a watertower in the park in their backyard.

      With so much citizen hatred for "screwing up their home values" perhaps that's the biggest problem facing this "underutilized" spectrum rather than the companies themselves.

    4. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2

      Clearwire is probably underutilized because people don't want the towers which provide the service in their backyards.

      We've had a discussion about this in the past which I posted on (I'm too lazy to find it) where I said people in my area shot down a proposed tower because it would go up on a watertower in the park in their backyard.

      With so much citizen hatred for "screwing up their home values" perhaps that's the biggest problem facing this "underutilized" spectrum rather than the companies themselves.

      NIMBYs are generally a pain in the ass. You can't call them Luddites, since they're not exactly against the technology, they're just selfish pricks.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    5. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by tepples · · Score: 2

      I think grandparent was referring to a 133 MHz-wide slice above 2 GHz, a 59 MHz-wide slice above 2 GHz, and a 47 MHz-wide slice above 2 GHz.

    6. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by Nethead · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hi Bill:

      A good amount of that Clearwire spectrum is used for tower-to-tower communications. One unique thing about Clearwire's system is they really don't like to pay for dedicated lines to towers. The normal setup is a few AggPOPs per market which feed, normally 10Gb fiber, to the market's TransPOP which often is colocated with the RDC (Regional Data Center). Each AggPOP will service one to several RF tower rings of three to eight towers, mostly via Dragonwave radios. Of course with tens of thousands of RF sites, there will be some one-offs, but the goal is to have as many tower sites serviced via the AggPOPs as feasible. The system from RF tower to TransPOP is PPB-TE Ethernet.

      This allows them, as they are doing now, to lease some of that bandwidth to the towers to other carriers. Clearwire was always envisioned as a wholesaler.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    7. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I didn't RTFA and I won't, but if what you say is right, then this report is garbage and the people who wrote it should be fired for making a business argument while completely ignoring technical feasibility.

      Cell phones and portable devices use frequencies above 1 GHz because they allow for small antennas, and because a fraction of an octave at 1 GHz gives you 10 times the bandwidth than the same fraction at 100 MHz.

      Thus, their entire report is pointless, and we don't even need to argue whether these bands are really in the wrong hands, or if they are available globally.

    8. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by epine · · Score: 3

      CTIA officials disputed the Citigroup report's numbers, saying Bazinet and Rollins appear to be using information from 2010.

      Whoa, it's still 2011, and I was so 2012 already.

      Our crisis outruns competent criticism, so give us more money / leeway, no strings attached.

      If the report used data from August, I'd trust it far less. I guess the Goldilocks report has a 30 day shelf life: not too fresh, not too stale. Just what you love to see when you work hard to prepare such a document in a thorough and even-handed way: pitched into the rubbish bin before the ink has barely dried.

    9. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      By the way, in case anybody's wondering, there's a good, not necessarily obvious reason why lots of TV stations that used to have VHF licenses voluntarily gave them up for UHF, even though VHF licenses were historically the desirable ones that stations were literally desperate to own -- mobile devices. VHF has long range at lower power, but needs a fairly large antenna to receive the signals efficiently. UHF, in contrast, can have a properly tuned antenna that's just a few inches long. For handheld and mobile devices, it's a lot easier and more convenient to deal with a small UHF antenna that's a few inches long instead of a big, unwieldy VHF antenna that's a few FEET long. The TV stations KNOW that mobile reception is the one realm they still somewhat have to themselves.

    10. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget all those greedy hams! They have a whole 26 MHz at 33 cm they're never using! That's a half of a freaking channel! Just take it! They got no lobbyists!

    11. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by NJRoadfan · · Score: 2

      (anyone watching UHF television still these days?)

      Actually yes, plenty of people are watching UHF TV nowadays. Most broadcasters switched to UHF because its better for transmitting ATSC broadcasts and led to a bit of a revival of that spectrum. The only place you will find VHF ATSC stations are crowded markets like NYC or LA where there is a spectrum crunch (mostly because a good chunk of the 700Mhz range, formerly UHF channels 52 thru 69, went to cell phone service). Even then those channels are on the high VHF (channel 7-13) band, almost nobody broadcasts on the low-VHF (channel 2-6) stations anymore.

    12. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by ONOIML8 · · Score: 1

      But a dish made for a 47 MHz wide chunk of the 2 GHz spectrum Dish is allocated would be.....the same size as the one they currently use.

      The fact that Clearwire has 133 MHz of bandwidth does not mean that their bandwidth is centered on 133 MHz. It means that they have a 133 MHz wide allocation centered somewhere in the 2 GHz region. Your airplanes are safe from them.

      --
      . Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
    13. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by digitalaudiorock · · Score: 1

      Ignoring the rest, you ask if anyone is still watching UHF TV nowadays. Yes, everybody is. What they got rid of is the VHF TV stations. Absolutely every broadcast station is in the UHF range.

      Actually no. I'm in NJ and get both Philadelphia and New York stations. After the digital switch over many stations whose digital broadcast was on UHF moved their digital broadcast to their old VHF frequency where they are now. These include 7 (ABC in NY), 11 (CW in NY), 13 (PBS in NY), 6 (ABC in Phily), and 12 (PBS in Phily). This happened in a lot of markets and came as a rather ugly surprise to a lot of people that got duped into buying high end "HD" antennas that were UHF only.

    14. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by schnell · · Score: 1

      I you read my original post - or TFA - you would realize I was talking about the amount of spectrum in MHz, not its specific frequency.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    15. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by TClevenger · · Score: 1

      I swear, we need a -1 (DNRTFA) tag.

    16. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by Sir+Lurkalot · · Score: 1

      Don't forget all those greedy hams! They have a whole 26 MHz at 33 cm they're never using! That's a half of a freaking channel! Just take it! They got no lobbyists!

      Yes we do.
      ARRL.org

    17. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      his allows them, as they are doing now, to lease some of that bandwidth to the towers to other carriers. Clearwire was always envisioned as a wholesaler.

      As Johnny Carson was wont to say: "I did not know that."

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    18. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Don't forget all those greedy hams! They have a whole 26 MHz at 33 cm they're never using! That's a half of a freaking channel! Just take it! They got no lobbyists!

      Ha. You know, I wish they would, and I further wish that the entire Federal Communications Commission, along with the CEO and Board of DIrectors of all the major telecom carriers, would get caught in the middle of some major disaster with no way to communicate or call for help. I then imagine them surrounded by hundreds of ex-HAM operators all staring at them with accusing eyes, "We could have gotten out on 20 meters, but now we're all gonna die because you selfish fucks "reallocated" our spectrum!"

      Amateur radio does enough good in the world that it should just be left alone.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    19. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      Did you experience that college kid's experiment thingie that happened that one day, a few weeks ago I believe, on /.?

      That wasn't a bad idea. Instead of just mod-scoring, people could actually "translate" a comment made by someone to clarify misreadings or misinterpretations. Those clarifications / classifications could be scored up or down for the most agreed-upon explanation.

      I liked it. Wish it would have lasted for more than a few hours.

    20. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      NIMBYs are generally a pain in the ass. You can't call them Luddites, since they're not exactly against the technology, they're just selfish pricks.

      A-freakin'-men. That and pricks that just like to have something to bitch about constantly. I know these people!! See below.

      There is a whole city next to where I live that wants an improved signal/noise ratio for all wireless carriers (it's a hilly city, land-wise).

      All citizens refuse to have a tower show up anywhere -OR- have a tower exist anywhere because of their a.) disgusting look of those damn tower things that lower [their] property value and the opinions of others about [their] perfect above-thou city, or they b.) don't want 'them there transmitters of RF' anywhere near [them], burnin' up [their] brain and kids' DNA.

      Same people that bitch about one of the above also bitch about how they can't use their mobile phones at home or while driving their kids around. I won't say any more.

    21. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Same people that bitch about one of the above also bitch about how they can't use their mobile phones at home or while driving their kids around. I won't say any more.

      {sigh} Yeah, it kinda makes you want to throw up. The same kind of self-centered assholes that were against offshore windfarms up near Boston because it would destroy their beautiful skyline, even though they wouldn't be visible from shore.

      If I had some land and a wireless company wanted to put up a tower, I'd say sure. Just give me a couple of your best smartphones with an unlimited data plan for as long as you have your tower on my property. And make sure you replant the grass when you're done.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    22. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      If I had some land and a wireless company wanted to put up a tower, I'd say sure. Just give me a couple of your best smartphones with an unlimited data plan for as long as you have your tower on my property. And make sure you replant the grass when you're done.

      I get the feeling you're all about fairness and logical gain/loss. I like ya!

      I sort of wonder what it is these people who have such a problem with

      offshore windfarms up near Boston because it would destroy their beautiful skyline, even though they wouldn't be visible from shore.

      crap. Is there some sort of subconscious thought that if they agree with the masses and don't bother to think or get answers on something like this that the companies/government entities they're stopping are going to put money in the mailboxes of all of the "bitchers" to convince them otherwise? I wish this were a joke, but I really wonder about peoples' blind-sightedness when it comes to physics and trade.

    23. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by cjsm · · Score: 1

      I used to think that, but it turns out a few of the HD stations are in the VHF band.

      --
      This ad space for rent.
    24. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I wish this were a joke, but I really wonder about peoples' blind-sightedness when it comes to physics and trade.

      Call it "enlightened capitalism", but we used to be a society that understood the idea of "give and take". Now we're mostly about the take.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    25. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      NIMBYs are generally a pain in the ass. ... they're just selfish pricks.

      Be careful not to paint with too broad a brush. Corporations are only too happy to erect the most god-awful eyesores if it saves them a few cents. See ATT Uverse complaints about refrigerator-sized boxes springing-up in people's front yards. See natural gas wells in residential areas springing up all over Colorado. See cell towers that take minimal effort to disguise as trees, but wasn't considered until NIMBYs complained. Etc.

      There's a line somewhere, but I have no more problem with NIMBYs than I do with corporations saving a buck by blocking out the sun, and similar...

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    26. Re:Wrong hands or wrong spectrum? by greed · · Score: 1

      From talking to people who actually have towers on their property, you'll do a whole lot better than just a couple of phones and a data plan. There's actual money in it for the use of your property. I know a couple in central New York State who have a hobby farm and a tower with paging and cellular on it. They've got a pretty relaxed lifestyle.

      So, in a lot of places, you'll see cell antennas bolted to lower-income apartment buildings--at least in Ontario. (Ontario property tax on rental property is 2x to 3x what it is on owner-occupied, so apartments have a huge property tax burden... but are typically rented to people who can't afford to buy a condo.) The money for the cell site helps pay for building repair after the tax man has taken most of the rent away.

      Then there's the "Life Free Or Fry" signs I saw in Franconia, NH....

  8. "Wrong Hands" by causality · · Score: 2

    The U.S. has plenty of spectrum for mobile broadband, but much of it is in the wrong hands, they said."

    To the people who make the decisions, that's the exact same thing as a shortage. They don't see a changing of hands as a viable option. They are not generally willing to consider it. If something is perceived as finite, limited, and scarce then you can continue to justify what you charge for it. The rest is a matter of regulatory capture by the proxy of campaign contributions.

    --
    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    1. Re:"Wrong Hands" by Jay+L · · Score: 1

      Likewise, there are plenty of jobs for talented workers. They're just currently taken by underperformers.

    2. Re:"Wrong Hands" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Likewise, there are plenty of jobs for talented workers. They're just currently taken by underperformers.

      Or they haven't been created yet, because everybody is sitting on their asses waiting for someone to hand them a job.
      If you can't find work, make work. That's kind of the entire point of a free society- do it yourself.

    3. Re:"Wrong Hands" by fermion · · Score: 1
      You know in real estate, which is a limited resource like spectrum, there is already a solution. It is called property tax. Property tax insures that firms and individuals that cannot fully utilize a resource will eventual have to give it up. It prevents the kind of aristocratic inefficiencies that we know see in spectrum, most notably over the air TV stations. When a agent cannot pay taxes, the property goes back to the state and another more efficient agent can utilize the resources. In my downtown area revitalization only occurred because of this. The firms that would have owned the land without property tax would have never sold at reasonable prices, but as the property was available for a fraction of back taxes, new businesses were allowed to grow and flourish. The state was an eager seller as it wants taxes.

      Of course sometimes families lose a home or business over property taxes, but that is simply the cost of having an efficient economy, and is not an issue for spectrum. If spectrum was taxed at a relatively high rate, then firms with excess spectrum would be motivated to sell it or risk having it 'condemned' by the state. It is interesting that these allegedly free market traders do not promote such a tax.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    4. Re:"Wrong Hands" by yuna49 · · Score: 1

      I read TFA and kept waiting for some mention of spectrum utilization by Verizon and AT&T. Instead we see a list of smaller competitors as the "wrong hands" people. By implication if we could just drive these little guys out of the marketplace and let VZ and AT&T extend their oligopoly we'd all be better off? I think not.

    5. Re:"Wrong Hands" by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Of course sometimes families lose a home or business over property taxes, but that is simply the cost of having an efficient economy,

      Off-topic: the old "you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs" argument. It's morally bankrupt in many situations.

      I hope you never have to deal with a tax-sale. It's brutal, and you lose everything over taxes worth only a fraction of the value of your home. That almost happened to a member of my family once: he was very ill and missed one payment. One. I tried to speak to the county attorney to get a little more time, and she told me flatly, "I can't help you. It's your responsibility to pay your taxes. If you lose your home that's really not my problem." Arrogant bitch. On the day of the tax sale I walked in, skipped over a line of people all waiting to pick up his house for a song, and handed over a certified check to the clerk for about seven grand. The collective sigh of disappointment I heard made me want to throw up. Frankly, it's inhumane and just fundamentally wrong the way most counties handle property taxes. The essence of ownership is, in fact, control, and the truth is you don't ultimately control the disposition of what is loosely called "property" in this country. The state can take it from you on a whim, and recent Supreme Court rulings have made that even more likely.

      On topic, in the case of spectrum, you may very well be right, I don't know. But I do know this: if you tax the hell out of spectrum space that cost will instantly be passed on to consumers as higher prices and even poorer service. The answer is better regulation and control of carriers and their spectrum utilization, but in this age of regulatory capture I don't see it happening any time soon.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    6. Re:"Wrong Hands" by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I read TFA and kept waiting for some mention of spectrum utilization by Verizon and AT&T. Instead we see a list of smaller competitors as the "wrong hands" people. By implication if we could just drive these little guys out of the marketplace and let VZ and AT&T extend their oligopoly we'd all be better off? I think not.

      Yeah, that' doesn't make much sense to me either. Kinda makes you wonder about the impartiality of the authors.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  9. A Patchwork Of Spectrum Is Not Usable Spectrum by rsmith-mac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Citi's report is not wrong, but how they go about counting things is naive at best. The crux of the matter is that there's a lot of crap spectrum that carriers basically got for free or close to it. But before we get too far ahead, let's answer an easier question: what is good spectrum.

    1. 1) The ideal spectrum is below 1GHz, as these frequencies have the best building and tree penetration. 1GHz-2GHz is usable, but it's not ideal because you start taking notable losses indoors and customers who've given up on landlines can't reliably use their phones indoors everywhere. Anything over 2GHz is effectively useless for mobile wireless because it's so poor at penetrating obstacles. It's best used for fixed point wireless where obstacles can be planned around and/or removed.
    2. 2) The ideal spectrum is nationwide. A patchwork of spectrum is not usable spectrum because it means you can only use narrow (lower bandwidth) channels, and requires a great deal more effort to plan, operate, and maintain a wireless network.
    3. 2b) Local spectrum is only useful when it abuts nationwide spectrum so that carriers can use it by simply activating more channels in high population areas.

    Case in point, 194MHz of the spectrum Citi says is available is above 2GHz: "Citigroup's description of 194 MHz available in the Broadband Radio Service (BRS) and Educational Broadband Service (EBS) bands between 2.4 and 2.7 GHz". This also goes hand-in-hand with Citi's weird method of counting spectrum in use: they're multiplying it by the percent of the population that the spectrum covers. "The two used averages to come up with spectrum use estimates; if a carrier has a 10 MHz nationwide block, but is only delivering service to half the U.S. population, the report considers that 5 MHz of used spectrum, Rollins said."

    Ultimately the carriers are being wasteful at times, but not nearly to the degree that Citi says they are. The carriers need more national allocations if they're to run a 3rd network simultaneously, and those allocations need to be at least 40MHz wide so that they can operate two sets of wideband (10MHz) LTE channels. Smaller allocations mean that they're going to have to use smaller channels, and that's going to greatly limit network performance.

    1. Re:A Patchwork Of Spectrum Is Not Usable Spectrum by Solandri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ultimately the carriers are being wasteful at times, but not nearly to the degree that Citi says they are.

      The government shouldn't have sold spectrum, it should have leased it, with lease renewal fees gradually increasing over time like we do with property taxes. One of the purposes of commercial property taxes is to encourage efficient use of land. If you own land in a major city's downtown area, the temptation is to sit on that land as it appreciates in value. After all, it costs you no more to hold onto that land than it does to hold onto land in the middle of the desert. That's good for you, but bad for society overall. By charging you high property tax on that valuable piece of land, it gives you two choices: Develop the land into something useful for society which generates enough revenue for you to offset the high property tax, or sell the land to someone who will develop it.

      That's what the government should have done with spectrum. Recurring and increasing annual lease fees would've forced spectrum owners to use it, or sell it off to someone who would use it. By selling the spectrum instead of leasing it, we've got a bunch of companies now suspected of wastefully sitting on spectrum simply because they can.

    2. Re:A Patchwork Of Spectrum Is Not Usable Spectrum by darth+dickinson · · Score: 2

      Citi's report is not wrong, but how they go about counting things is naive at best.

      Well, duh, they couldn't run a bank for crap. What makes you think they can allocate wireless broadband effectively?

    3. Re:A Patchwork Of Spectrum Is Not Usable Spectrum by antifoidulus · · Score: 2

      tree penetration

      Best enviro-porn movie title ever.

    4. Re:A Patchwork Of Spectrum Is Not Usable Spectrum by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2

      Ultimately the carriers are being wasteful at times, but not nearly to the degree that Citi says they are.

      The government shouldn't have sold spectrum, it should have leased it, with lease renewal fees gradually increasing over time like we do with property taxes. One of the purposes of commercial property taxes is to encourage efficient use of land. If you own land in a major city's downtown area, the temptation is to sit on that land as it appreciates in value. After all, it costs you no more to hold onto that land than it does to hold onto land in the middle of the desert. That's good for you, but bad for society overall. By charging you high property tax on that valuable piece of land, it gives you two choices: Develop the land into something useful for society which generates enough revenue for you to offset the high property tax, or sell the land to someone who will develop it.

      That's what the government should have done with spectrum. Recurring and increasing annual lease fees would've forced spectrum owners to use it, or sell it off to someone who would use it. By selling the spectrum instead of leasing it, we've got a bunch of companies now suspected of wastefully sitting on spectrum simply because they can.

      Given that property is owned and still can be taxed, I don't see why they couldn't also introduce a spectrum tax.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    5. Re:A Patchwork Of Spectrum Is Not Usable Spectrum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anything over 2GHz is effectively useless for mobile wireless because it's so poor at penetrating obstacles. It's best used for fixed point wireless where obstacles can be planned around and/or removed.

      Maybe here in europe physics laws are different, but UMTS and derivates (HSDPA et al) in 2.2 Ghz provides mobile voice and data up to 7.2Mbps without problems.

    6. Re:A Patchwork Of Spectrum Is Not Usable Spectrum by RobertM1968 · · Score: 1

      tree penetration

      Best enviro-porn movie title ever.

      And well worth watching. I know I got a woodie watching it.

  10. Re:Ham radio? by Hartree · · Score: 1

    Obvious troll is obvious.

  11. Locked in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We bought it so our competition can't use it. Even tho we're not going to do anything with it anytime soon either. We didn't want any other company to use this chunk of spectrum.

    Like many problems... These problems can be traced back to the FCC being how they are.

  12. Re:Ham radio? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm pretty sure I'm feeding a troll here, so I'm not even trying to comprehend the reasoning needed to conclude that government taking control of frequencies and selling them to licensed corporations is cool, but government reserving a few frequencies to licensed members of the public that government is supposed to be serving is a horrible thing.

    The factual question is fair enough, though, so:

    In the range of interest for cellular communications (say, 1m to 0.1m, or 300 MHZ to 3 GHz), there's 186 MHz of ham allocations, or about 7% of the spectrum.

  13. Spectrum is not a finite resource... by KonoWatakushi · · Score: 2

    Photons don't interact with each other, and don't "fill up" anything. What is at issue, is our poor usage of the spectrum, and insistance on treating it like exclusive property. Any number of people can communicate on the very same frequencies, and in the very same space, just as long as there is a way to distinguish the communications. Fortunately, nature provides each device with a unique "address": its location in space. As technology improves, we can continue to make ever better use of the same spectrum--or at least we could if legislation didn't actively prevent it.

    In essence, it comes down to building more towers, and I'm not aware of any unsurmountable barriers to a company with the will and cash. Of course, it is easier to just prop up the model of artificial scarcity with prices to match.

    Rather than clinging to the outdated concept of a scarce spectrum, regulatory agencies should start giving it back to the public, and encourage the proper use of it. Highly dense, low-power, ultra wide-band communications. It is the natural evolution of wifi: per-home micro-cells attached to home fibre, running open Internet protocols. We could easily have extremely high-performance ubiquitous wireless networking, if massive corporations weren't so busy propping up artificial scarcity and walling everything off.

    1. Re:Spectrum is not a finite resource... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Photons don't interact with each other

      Correct, but we are talking about radio waves, which do interact.

      > In essence, it comes down to building more towers, and I'm not aware of any unsurmountable barriers to a company with the will and cash

      Perhaps everyone has a price, but are you willing to pay $5/minute in phone charges to pay for buying up all the $20million dollar homes that would be required to install the tower in some locations? In some countries towers are considered good for all so communities have limited ability to block them. In the US, too many want the towers somewhere else (but complain about poor coverage at the same time), and have the ability to block them.

    2. Re:Spectrum is not a finite resource... by SlashV · · Score: 1

      > Photons don't interact with each other
      Correct, but we are talking about radio waves, which do interact.

      So according to you, radio waves are not photons?

    3. Re:Spectrum is not a finite resource... by artor3 · · Score: 1

      You're completely wrong. There is some very well established science regarding the maximum amount of information that can be sent in a given bandwidth. Read up on the Shannon limit, for starters. If you and I are on the same frequency, standing next to each other, we have to share the available bandwidth. There's simply no way around it. Distinguishing my traffic from yours is the easy part.

      You can get some breathing room by moving towards numerous, low-power stations, as you suggest. But it's not as easy as it is in your imagination. In order to have good signal in your house, it's going to have to spill over into your neighbors. So he'll have to use a different frequency. And so will your neighbor on the other side, and across the street. The entire county would turn into the map coloring problem from hell, except the four color limit won't apply since the borders are squishy and blend together.

      And even if you spent the zillions of dollars necessary to set up and maintain that system, it would still have limits. The bandwidth would still get filled up. That's simply a mathematical law.

    4. Re:Spectrum is not a finite resource... by KonoWatakushi · · Score: 1

      That's just the thing--there is no "given bandwidth". The limit you refer to is relevant for a single channel over a wire, or a single transmitter. For the spectrum though, you are effectively allowed an infinite number of transmitters/receivers. By legislating exclusive use of nearly all frequencies, we are killing any potential growth in that direction.

      Distinguishing the signals is very much the practical limiting factor, but the capacity is there, and technology will continue to improve. We have barely scratched the surface of what will become possible with phased array antennas. Based on typical usage, people assume that wireless is a shared medium, but it is not. It is fundamentally point to point. (Optical is easy; RF is much harder, and subject to antenna limitations. Sure, there are limitations, but the point holds.)

      It wouldn't take a zillion dollars, but it would require a pervasive quality optical network for all of those tiny cells to attach to. We need that anyway though, and that suffers from much the same problem: the carriers are perfectly happy leaving the network to rot. We desperately need public ownership of the plant, and the resulting competition amongst ISPs. Likewise, we need public ownership of a sizable chunk of spectrum. Without that, there is nothing to drive innovation and improvement of the respective mediums--there will always be some corporation focused on protecting their monopoly position, not improving the network.

    5. Re:Spectrum is not a finite resource... by Xugumad · · Score: 1

      > Photons don't interact with each other, and don't "fill up" anything.

      Completely the wrong sort of spectrum.

      > Fortunately, nature provides each device with a unique "address": its location in space.

      Which you can't tell from a single receiver. Direction is possible, but you need a second receiver at sufficient distance to get a second accurate reading, to get location. Not that it helps anyway; radio waves do interact, and weaker signals can be drowned out by more powerful ones.

      > Rather than clinging to the outdated concept of a scarce spectrum, regulatory agencies should start giving it back to the public, and encourage the proper use of it.

      We could call it the 2.4Ghz band, and fill it with low power transmitters using 802.11[bgn]? BT FON in the UK ( http://www.btfon.com/ ) is probably what you want; home broadband connections converted to Wi-Fi access points. Free for all BT FON providers to use any other access point in the network, or others can use it as a normal pay access point.

    6. Re:Spectrum is not a finite resource... by Xugumad · · Score: 1

      Before anyone else gets into this discussion:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation

      Yeah, I was always told photons were light, and were different. TIL...

      We are still left with the issue that a stronger source can make a weaker one indistinguishable, though.

    7. Re:Spectrum is not a finite resource... by Xugumad · · Score: 1

      > Completely the wrong sort of spectrum.

      Apologies, I was wrong. Embarrassingly, Wikipedia had to come to my rescue.

    8. Re:Spectrum is not a finite resource... by russotto · · Score: 1

      Which you can't tell from a single receiver. Direction is possible, but you need a second receiver at sufficient distance to get a second accurate reading, to get location. Not that it helps anyway; radio waves do interact, and weaker signals can be drowned out by more powerful ones.

      Radio waves in free space, in a wire, or in the air do not interact. They do interact in the receiver, however.

    9. Re:Spectrum is not a finite resource... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the laugh! I'm assuming you were joking, and not merely ignorant. While a lot of people can use one frequency IF they aren't all transmitting small amounts of data at once, there is tremendous loss from resending information when two or more radios are sending information on the same frequency at the same time. Go visit NYC, or some other large metropolis. You'll find that the signals in an apartment building on 8.02.11b or g are all on one of 3 channels. And you'll find the throughput is dogs....because of packet "collisions" and the constant resending of data. And things have only gotten worse with 8.02.11n radios that can cover more area. I've frequently seen 15-20 wireless routers in one apartment. And that doesn't even account for all the wireless telephones, microwave ovens, and other sources of interference. A number of places had to go back to wired networks because of the density.

      A good analogy for selling frequencies, btw, is to look at how air travel might be different if the government started to sell airports to airlines. They would only go up in value, and if the government wanted to add more flights, they'd need to either buy back the rights to add more, or be stuck.

    10. Re:Spectrum is not a finite resource... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually not strictly true.

      The concept of DIDO (wait wait, I'm not on the hype train, its bullshit technology but, give me a second) tells us that it is *possible* to use the same bandwidth to communicate (different) information to 2 parties at once, at the maximum efficiency of the allocated spectrum.

      IE. If you use 2 transmitters, you can transmit 2xShannonLimit information in total, to 2 receivers. (each receiver can only receive 1x shannonlimit at maximum)

      This is because what you do; is (according to how DIDO wanted to do it) you do some really simple (here comes the hand waving) wave form calculations in your conveniently located datacentre, and you calculate how to modulate your transmitters output such that at the 2 endpoints, they constructively cancel each other out leaving on the the appropriate signal at the receiver.

      Here's the caveats (that make it a pipe dream):
      1 Transmitter per receiver. (300 recpients, to each get their own ShannonsLimit allocation of information, you need 300 transmitters)
      The calculations aren't easy. (I envision massive latency as your datacentre calculates it)
      You have to know the location of the recipient (obviously - Probably pretty accurately)
      The transmitters have to be well spaced out. (Can't all be on the same tower)
      Here's the best bit, all of your transmitters have to transmit at pretty close to exactly the bit at exactly the right time (good luck with that).

      But I mean, the maths supports that it is possible :D
      (It'd probably take your zillion dollars thought). Basically, in a magical fairy land where someone pulls this off, you get a ShannonLimit per receiver, which really would open up some capacity for mobile devices!

  14. Four little words... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Remote Garage Door Openers"
    These work in the 300 - 400 Mhz range (good for building penetration), but are always used at relatively short range. Surely we could assign these systems a frequency in a less "desirable" band and get over the issue of building penetration by merely boosting the power of the transmitters.
    There's a useful chart of US radio frequencies at the Department of Commerce NAtional Telecommunications and Information Administration Office of Spectrum Management (.pdf)

  15. Oh? And Whose Hands Should It Be In? by Greyfox · · Score: 2

    Is shitty bank planning on starting a shitty internet service to go with their shitty wok and shitty airline?

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  16. Citigroup??? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

    So...this is Citigroup, the security experts, right? So now they are wireless frequency allocation experts too???

    Maybe the same hackers that stole all that account information, made off with some frequencies while they were at it!

    1. Re:Citigroup??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sir are a retard. Citigroup is composed of about 300,000 people world wide. To say the security breach has anything to do with the people making claims about the spectrum is just plain naive. While its all under one label it really can easily be broken down into several smaller companies (and probably should be but thats another discussion).

  17. Re:Ham radio? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    I guess I have to ask why do they even need 7% of that since they have a bunch outside of that range and it is a limited and dying hobby?

    just wondering, and trying to not be a troll about it

  18. As an employee in the broadcast biz... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...I'm quite aware of the move to reclaim bandwidth from the USA terrestrial stations. I've seen the cry and hue that the NAB (and members) and put forth, but I've always wondered why they just don't come out and say "You bastards MANDATED that we change over to digital, and now you want us to give back bandwidth on a capability and capacity we had to spend millions on.", or something similar.

    Why haven't they just come out with that tack? It is the unspoken sentiment, yet no one seems to have the balls to say it.

  19. one word solution: MESH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    more nodes=more bandwith
    the users themselves ARE the network

  20. Well duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Artificial scarcity to increase profits is not really a new concept

  21. Mesh Networks by Torino10 · · Score: 2

    I have been seriously considering lobbying my Congressman to consider changing the top 20 channels of Citizens Band radio to a digital Citizens band format, where every device that uses the bandwidth would have to function like a WiFi AP Bridge. This sort of network would still function even when there is a disaster and the local Cell towers go down. It would also create some competition to the CelPhone companies and eventually the Cable companies. It's just a thought at the moment but I'm planning on doing research into it's feasibility and if it looks possible starting a grass roots political movement.

    1. Re:Mesh Networks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Note that you're only looking at 200 kHz of bandwidth -- you're not getting a practical voice or general-use internet connection through that, not if it sees any amount of adoption. It can be quite adequate for text messages and email gateways, though.

      Look into APRS for an existing protocol and wide-area mesh network along those lines -- it is ordinarily run on amateur frequencies (mostly 2m, at 1200kb/s), but naturally you can put it on any frequency, modulation, and bitrate you like. At least consider it as a reference to evolve a different protocol from, if it turns out to be unsuitable.

      The exact form you discuss -- requiring every terminal to function as a repeater -- is of questionable practicality, because it places severe limits on battery life of handheld terminals. Might look into having mobile and base stations act as repeaters, while only requiring handhelds to support it (and maybe to operate as repeaters when operating from an external power source), but allow the user to turn it off while operating on internal batteries.

  22. Re:Perfectly SFW (Safe For Work) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's ok, he's taking them back.

  23. What about smaller cell's in population centers?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think the real problem is the size of cell's in population centers.
    If you like to have more spectrum in some area's create more smaller cell's.

     

  24. It goes all the way... by rossdee · · Score: 1

    There is no spectrum shortage, the frequency of electromagnetic radiation goes all the way to infinity.

    Speaking of Spectrums, is 'Uncle Clive' still alive?

    1. Re:It goes all the way... by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      The problem is that certain frequencies get attenuated very quickly, and some others are harmful for human beings. Also creating receivers and transmitters at some frequencies is hard or even impossible with today's technology.

      In practice you are quite limited.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
  25. Re:Ham radio? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

    I guess I have to ask why do they even need 7% of that since they have a bunch outside of that range and it is a limited and dying hobby?

    just wondering, and trying to not be a troll about it

    Limited and dying by whose measure? There's a world of amateur radio that exists outside of the United States. In fact, that's often the reason people get into the "hobby", to talk to those from other countries.

    Personally, I like the fact that there's a global communications medium available at all times that is completely outside of the comparatively fragile mainstream networks, that is dependent upon no physical infrastructure whatsoever, not even satellites, and cannot be easily blocked or jammed by government. Remember what happened during Katrina: cell phones went offline almost immediately, along with Internet and regular telephones as CO batteries died and generators ran out of fuel. HAMs were communicating worldwide during the whole crisis.

    And it isn't just the United States where amateur radio has come in very handy. It would be a mistake to try and eliminate those "hobbyists" (rather a demeaning term to apply to some very accomplished, dedicated and useful people) and furthermore it would require some international accords anyway: the spectrum is used worldwide.

    And no I'm not a HAM, but I play one on TV.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  26. Re:Ham radio? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    well that's all well and good, and I always hear "when the bombs drop" arguments, but if this cellphone crap is that big of a crisis its not like that 7% represents every signal radio could use, reclaiming that 7% would not totally banish ham's from the air...

    And I think its a dying hobby cause when I read QST they act like its a moon landing if someone under the age of 50 participates in an activity

    On the other hand its not like that 7% is really going to help that much but when your in a "crisis" as they make it out to be, every drop counts right?

  27. The solution ... by PPH · · Score: 1

    ...Citigroup would like is some sort of private spectrum market where blocks could be traded. Run by .......

    ..... wait for it ......

    ..... Citigroup.

    AKA: Son of Enron.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  28. Intentional Balkanization for customer lock-in and by kbahey · · Score: 2

    There is no spectrum shortage. Europe and Asia have no spectrum shortage, despite being more densely populated (generally), and all having the same handsets work on all networks. The decisions to buy a handset and the decision which network to subscribe to are totally separate. You buy the handset outright. No subsidy. No strings attached.

    The urge to have balkanized networks is driven purely by networks wanting to fragment the market and put obstacles to their customers leaving for some other network.

    I wrote about this re: Canada, and it applies to the USA as well. The only two markets that tie customers this way, and people accept it.

    Read Mobile phone carriers lobby for more balkanization by asking for more "spectrum" and More balkanization and monopoly in Canada's mobile phone market.

    This should be stopped!

  29. There is NEVER a shortage of cellular spectrum by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 2

    ... just a shortage of infrastructure. One of the basic principles of cellular networks is that you can increase capacity by building more cells and reusing spectrum in the spatial dimension. You can repeat the process almost infinitely; when you reach the point where walking around a room would switch you to a different cell you have gone too far. And for moving vehicles the limit is reached a bit sooner because the handoffs have overhead; a cell handoff every second would probably bring the network to a standstill. But the vehicles are probably using less bandwidth than the stationary users (even if you ARE watching a movie in your car you're probably not watching it in HD), so you could built a mixed network with high-bandwidth, high-density cells for stationary users and larger-range, lower-bandwidth cells for mobile. Before anybody says "but that would cost too much!", I'm only talking about TECHNOLOGICAL feasibility. It might cost too much to build the additional cells and/or be politically infeasible to build them. But note that RF exposure from the new smaller cells isn't as serious a problem as it might seem; they will be closer to your house (bad) but operate at lower power levels (good).