Ask Slashdot: How to Exploit Post-Cataract Ultraviolet Vision?

xmas2003 writes "I recently had cataract surgery with a Crystalens implant. With my cloudy yellowing (UV-filtering) natural lens removed, I see the world in a new light (more on that in a moment) as everything is brighter and colors are more vivid ... plus in focus. As a typical Slashdot reader, I've been myopic since childhood, so it's wonderful not to have to wear glasses/contacts for distance. One interesting oddity is that I can now see ultraviolet light — it seems that there are a few people who have photoreceptors sensitive below 400nm into the UV spectrum. I've done some testing with a Black Light and UV filter to confirm this but would love to do more conclusive testing such as using a Monochromator — anyone in the Boulder, Colorado area have access to one? And any suggestions from Slashdot readers on how I can further explore this phenomenon? While I can't see dead people, I guess I have a 'superpower' ... although I'm not sure a middle-aged suburbanite dad should don purple tights and cape to become a crime-fighter!"

Comments

First step (or post)

[OzPeter]

Think up a really cool super hero name. Then we can you welcome you as an overlord. Assuming that you can get Natalie Portman to deliver the Hot Grits!

Re:First step (or post)

[Haedrian]

Ultraman

Re:First step (or post)

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Obviously, with his newfound UV-vision powers, he is ready to decode(or manipulate) the hidden coloration used by plants to attract bees...

As HiveLord, numberless swarms of eusocial attack insects will bend to his will! The crops of man shall be bounteous, or wither unpollinated, by his hand! His amazonian suicide warriors will throw themselves at all foes, laying down their lives that the Swarm's venom may find its target!

Re:First step (or post)

[Anonymous Coward]

Ultraviolator.

Though I guess that could be open to misinterpretation.

Re:First step (or post)

[Manos_Of_Fate]

Ultragirl. I didn't even click the links yet, because I already know that only females are gifted with vision in or near the ultraviolet part of the spectrum.

although I'm not sure a middle-aged suburbanite dad should don purple tights and cape to become a crime-fighter!"

You need to take some remedial biology lessons, I think.

Re:First step (or post)

[Baloroth]

That would be tetrachromats, who can see richer colors (the fourth cone is somewhere between red and green) but not ultraviolet. It is however extremely rare. Totally different phenomenon AFAIK, and girls can have it due to having two X chromosomes. I've never heard of humans seeing into ultraviolet, but I suppose it is possible.

Re:First step (or post)

[martin-boundary]

He should wear ultraviolet skin tights, then most people won't see them and he can pass incognito. Plus, he won't need a phone booth.

Re:First step (or post)

[Runaway1956]

It isn't the lenses that detect ultravision. Nor, do the lenses pre-process photo stimuli. Nor, do the lenses send signals to the brain. It's the rods and cones at the back of the eyeball that detect, pre-process, then send signals along the optic nerve. Women who see anywhere near the ultraviolet have slightly different rods and cones at the back of the eye.

Baloroth was kind enough to provide a link, just a post or two down from here, which you might find informative. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrachromats#Possibility_of_human_tetrachromats

Re:First step (or post)

[Z8]

That wikipedia article you linked to said that the new type of cone that some women may have "lies between the standard red and green cones". It has nothing to do with seeing ultraviolet.

Re:First step (or post)

[JWSmythe]

    Well, I can say that your assertion is flawed. I am a male. I can also see UV light with one eye. I had a congenital cataract (it was there from birth). When I was 19 (almost 20 years ago), the vision in one eye was 20/200 due to this. They cut the old lens out, and slid the new one in. At the time, we were advised to leave the bandage on for a week, so I did.

    When I removed the bandage, I didn't see anything remarkable, other than I could see clearly. I also found that the lens was not easy to bend, so my focus in that eye has been fixed ever since.

    Around Halloween time, I had my first experience under black lights. Well, it was more like extreme pain. The natural lens filters out the UV light. Being bathed in this bright UV light was roughly like looking straight into a very bright light.

    Over the next 5 years or so, I became adjusted to being able to see UV. It's not a big deal. Sometimes I see the rough equivalent to visual feedback when looking at particular colors (blue, violet, and UV). Each eye is seeing a different color on the same object.

    It's hard to explain what it looks like to most people though. A black light normally doesn't really look like anything. I see a bright blue light instead, only in one eye. Sometimes I close one eye, then alternate, so I can figure out what color the rest of you see. It's a very bright blue. Kind of like the difference between bottle of mustard, and a yellow caution sign. Well, except most of you would never have seen the yellow caution sign, so you won't have a frame of reference.

    So is it the whole UV range? Hell if I know. Maybe. Maybe not. I've never been presented with a color wheel that covers UV colors to help determine the full range.

    I always wear UV & polarized sunglasses when I'm outside. Light is really bright, especially in areas with a clear sky. Going from LA's smog to Florida's bright blue sky is like living in a house with 40W bulbs, and then replacing them all with 100W bulbs. Sunglasses are generally a good idea, but if I don't have them, I end up walking around with one eye open.

    About 20 years later, I still see it. I was at a convention over the weekend, and they had blue backdrops behind the speakers, with black lights pointing at them. In one eye, it was a dull blue glow. In the other eye, it was a distracting bright blue light. So I watched most of the time with one eye open. :) It could have been worse. I would be blind in that eye by now.

 

Re:First step (or post)

[JWSmythe]

Before you go off calling someone a liar, maybe you should check up on it first. Google "see ultravilot". I just replied to another of your messages. I have a replacement lens in one eye, so I see both ways (normal and altered vision).

The following are quotes from http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2002/may/30/medicalscience.research

These harmful effects are reduced by the lens, which absorbs UV and prevents it entering the eye. When the lens becomes opaque due to cataracts, it may be surgically removed, and can be replaced with an artificial lens. Even with the lens removed (a condition known as aphakia) the patient can still see, as the lens is only responsible for about 30% of the eyes' focusing power.

However, aphakic patients report that the process has an unusual side effect: they can see ultraviolet light. It is not normally visible because the lens blocks it. Some artificial lenses are also transparent to UV with the same effect. The receptors in the eye for blue light can actually see ultraviolet better than blue. Military intelligence is said to have used this talent in the second world war, recruiting aphakic observers to watch the coastline for German U-boats signalling to agents on the shore with UV lamps. ...

An illustration of how ultraviolet appears is provided by the Impressionist painter Claude Monet. Following cataract surgery in 1923, his colour palette changed significantly; after the operation he painted water lilies with more blue than before. This may be because after lens removal he could see ultraviolet light, which would have given a blue cast to the world.

Re:First step (or post)

[walshy007]

No, but do natural lenses absorb UV?

Yes, and the extra type of rods she is talking about is _between_ the red and blue kind.. so all it does is allow greater differentiation of already seen colours, i.e. absolutely nothing to do with UV at all. So 2-3% of the female population can see a crazy amount of shades of colour.

The blue cells _can_ detect into the UV range, in both men and women, however normally this is blocked by the natural lens.

Re:First step (or post)

[RobbieThe1st]

Not really; The paints are made from different materials which may or may not do the same thing in the ultraviolet range as the real objects he was painting.

Re:First step (or post)

[Sniper98G]

I think you are confusing this with being a tetrachromat (the opposite of being color blind), that is a trait that only women can. However; being a tetrachromat does not allow you to see a greater range of frequency (like into UV or IR) it just lets the normal range of colors be detected with a greater granularity.

Re:First step (or post)

[Sulphur]

Ultraman

And his sidekick Violet.

Re:First step (or post)

[pmontra]

Or he can see UV reflected by sunscreen lotions. That would be a good test to check if he can really see UV. I guess that the reflected wavelengths of different products might vary and he might not be able to see all of them, nevertheless a crowded beach should provide a good enough sample.

Re:First step (or post)

[Genda]

This is absolutely correct. When photographed in ultraviolet, many flowers have color ques for insects to lead them to nectar (and obviously pollen) and are therefore much brighter and more vividly patterned in UV than the pigments in paint which may or may not have very narrow spectral content outside the visual spectrum we normally perceive.

Re:First step (or post)

[JosKarith]

I can see the edges of the UV spectrum and I'm male. It makes nightclubs very wierd places to be, but is quite helpful as it means I can actually see what people look like under the blacklight.
Of course that hasn't stopped me making some awful mistakes, but I blame that on the alcohol...

Re:First step (or post)

[mcgrew]

Cataracts cut down all frequencies, but especially the blueer colors. I have the same implant, after surgery all colors are brighter (for a while), but especially cool colors.

The brain is the organ that actually sees -- the eye merely focuses and collects light. The illusion of seeing ultraviolet goes away when the brain adapts to its new inputs.

Re:First step (or post)

[ZeroExistenZ]

Or are they asking the women what they see?

These women just say "pfffrrt I can seen all colours, even ultraviolet!"

To which the researchers tried to explain how that's unlikely and would try to run some tests..

As suddenly the women says "Is it me, or is it getting hot inhere ?" while there's some 70s funkmusic that comes from her bra, which is bulging...

As the scientist tries to remain his posture, and tries to convince the woman with all spectrum vision he needs to investigate her claims.. she replies "Investigate this.... doctor..." while she pushes her boobs in his face and scientists view is blurred and limited to only a few spectrums... While making up his results out of shame to write down his actual personal findings.

This is generally how women partake in research.

Dangerous

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't go out of your way to expose your eyes to UV!

Re:Dangerous

[jamesh]

Then again, remember that sunlight contains lots of UV light, so those levels are fine (except if you're a basement dweller)

Except that the filter that prevents the UV reaching the back of his eyeball is now gone... There is probably a good reason why you have that filter there in the first place!

Re:Dangerous

[hedwards]

That was my first thought, even with normal eyes UV isn't good for them, but if the OP has lost a layer of protection, then he needs to be even more careful about exposure as there's that much less eyeball protecting the nerves in the back of the eye.

Had it been IR sensitivity that would have been cool. But because UV unlike IR is higher energy than light in the visible spectrum you're much more likely to have eye problems in the future.

Re:Dangerous

[subreality]

UV is a very wide spectrum. Near-UV isn't too scary.

UV-A (400-315 nm) is OK for short-term exposure. Your pupils won't constrict like they do for visible light, so keep the intensity low. Plain old blacklights are 350-400nm with the peak at 365nm, plus a small peak in the very bottom of the visible spectrum (which is the purple glow).

UV-B (315-280 nm) will probably be invisible, and it will do bad things to your eyes, so please stick to very low intensities if you want to fool with this. Read up on the risks first.

UV-C (280-100 nm) is utterly hostile to biology - the upper atmosphere filters this range out so life never evolved mechanisms to deal with it. Actually, UV-C is hostile to damn near everything: just from my own experience, it bleaches everything, and most plastics will degrade and become brittle with mere hours of exposure. I've test-fired a 185nm lamp in the open for a few seconds (wearing goggles!) and even across the room you can instantly smell ozone forming as it starts ripping oxygen apart. Stay away!

Re:Dangerous

[Pharmboy]

You have the better of the replies so far (I've worked with UV devices daily, for 20 years). Many flowers have colors that can only be seen in the barely sub 400nm range, high into UVA, and just passed violet in the rainbow. This is where blacklights work as well. Staying above 315nm (and better above 350nm) presents much less risk, and is likely where his extended vision is anyway.

UVB exposure to the eyes should be avoided by everyone, and I don't recommend very long exposures of longer wave UVA either, but it is a very different animal.

Re:Dangerous

[JWSmythe]

    They have this new fangled device, called "sun glasses". :)

    For people who have had their lenses replaced, it's strongly advised to use UV filtering sunglasses. I'm one of them, for almost 20 years now, but only in one eye. I haven't actually checked, but I'm fairly sure that you are right. I can see UV, but I suspect my pupils don't contract, as I my night vision is maintained normally. Bright UV tends to hurt, so I normally react by closing that eye. At least that natural function works (bright light, close eye.)

Re:Dangerous

[WillDraven]

UV-C (280-100 nm) is utterly hostile to biology - the upper atmosphere filters this range out so life never evolved mechanisms to deal with it. Actually, UV-C is hostile to damn near everything: just from my own experience, it bleaches everything, and most plastics will degrade and become brittle with mere hours of exposure. I've test-fired a 185nm lamp in the open for a few seconds (wearing goggles!) and even across the room you can instantly smell ozone forming as it starts ripping oxygen apart. Stay away!

Next month's Slashdot headline: WickedLasers introduces 185nm 5W "My 1st Death Ray" for $150 ;-)

Re:Dangerous

[subreality]

Brief glimpses won't hurt you at low power levels - this isn't a laser leaving a scorch track wherever it goes. The danger is in continuous exposure where your total absorbed dose accumulates to high levels.

365nm at a few watts is pretty low (but nonzero) risk. I work in a room with 300 watts of 365nm in the open every day and I don't really give it any thought when the lights click on.

Life has not evolved ways to deal with anything below about 300nm, which does not occur on the surface of the earth. 254nm is what they use for germicidal lamps. It kills bacteria by causing massive DNA damage... Consider that. Your skin is a little more resilient, but like sun exposure, it will result in sunburn if you blast yourself with a high dose, and over time it causes skin aging and eventually cancer. On your eyes you're running the risk of cataracts.

On the upside: your glasses almost certainly block 254nm. Pretty much everything does - the bulbs and any windows are made of fused quartz which is one of very few things that will pass 254nm. It also doesn't tend to reflect around as much as visible light. Even shiny aluminum surfaces will absorb most of it. Silver mirrors reflect it as long as it's first-surface reflections; glass in front will absorb it. So perhaps you're not getting that much exposure except when you reach under the lamp. You can measure it with a radiometer if you have one handy to see how much is really being reflected toward you.

My suggestion: I always use glasses regardless of exposure. For your skin, it kind of depends how you use it. If you flip the lights on for a minute to examine a sample and then turn them off, and you're only reaching under the light for a few seconds, it might be OK to accept (but not ignore!) the skin risks. If you're leaving samples to react under the lights for hours at a time, I'd suggest you go down to Tap Plastics and buy a sheet of polycarbonate - it's what they use in UV safety goggles, and it's completely opaque to UV. Attach it to the front of the bench, and just reach around when you have to prod your sample.

Re:Dangerous

[subreality]

Fortunately we were all living underwater back then. Before the Oxygen Catastrophe we were really damn deep where there's no light at any wavelength. Even the green things stayed well under the surface until the ozone layer was established.

Nothing has ever lived in the presence of UVC. There are few absolutes in biology, and I certainly want my readers to consider the implications of that before they go experimenting with short wavelengths: life evolves to fill any niche it can, but it has never gone there, and neither should you.

Re:Dangerous

[thiophene]

In addition to your prescription glasses, you should be wearing safety glasses. Polycarbonate (what safety glasses are made of) absorbs like hell in the UV. If you want to test, just take a TLC plate and put a pair of whatever eyewear between it and the UV lamp. the once glowing silica should now be dark (if it is absorbing properly).

Black lights actually look black?

[justin12345]

Do black lights actually look black when on to most people? I thought they only looked black when they're off. To me they've always looked white with purple edges when on. I thought that was normal.

Re:Black lights actually look black?

[artor3]

The purple you see is just purple light. Most of the light emitted by black lights is ultraviolet, and thus invisible. But some of it is just regular old violet.

Re:Black lights actually look black?

[swalve]

I have this "power" as well. Found it out when got my first set of UV blocking contact lenses. Prior to that, in sunlight, there would be an uncomfortable unfocused ghosting off of things. With the new lenses, it was gone. (Same lens material, brand, shape and power.) Unlike the photo of the black light in the link, black lights emit a ghostly violet blob of unfocusable light. It is very uncomfortable, like being shined in the face with a flashlight.

List of ideas.

[allaunjsilverfox2]

1. Check to see if this ability enhances your sight during low level light. 2. Check the boundaries of your abilities and record such data. Is there a certain amount of UV light you can and can not detect? 3. Use this ability for a stealth motion detector. If a robber can't see in the dark, but you can, this would be a advantage. 4. Use this ability to sneak in late at night to prevent people yelling at you! :p 5. During a Solar eclipse, TOTALLY watch it, with proper protection of course. You will be recieving a special view that few humans will ever experience. :3

Re:List of ideas.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, Go find a really nicely filtered LED UV torch that only emits 400nm light. You're now your own nightvision.

Re:Start hunting?

[Joce640k]

I guess you'd be a good "natural" tracker now...

Wouldn't that be infra-red, not UV?

UV vision would let you see semen stains more easily but I'm not sure if that's a superpower or not.

Perhaps back in WWII

[RLBrown]

Back in WWII, when the medical treatment was much more primitive, elderly persons in England, who had vision partially restored by cataract surgery, were asked to watch for long wave UV covert signals, from off the coast vessels, as part of the war effort. This may be an urban legend -- it is unanswered on Snopes http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=25056, but I do recall reading about it as a child, I believe in a commentary written by Arthur C. Clarke. But the memory is vague, and who knows where Clarke might have learned of it. So as something vaguely remembered from a book half a century old, that may or may not exist, where the original author may or may not have had first hand knowledge, ... well, by Internet standards, that's your proof right there!

Re:Perhaps back in WWII

[Mashiki]

I dunno. I remember my great grandmother talking about sitting with her grandmother watching for this on the coast along with a naval officer to report. It could very well still be sealed, which considering how useful it would still be today, wouldn't surprise me at all.

They don't look black.

[sirwired]

Sorry; you do not have special UV-sensitive super-powers. So-called "black" lights are not, by any stretch of the imagination, UV-only. They have a filter on them that blocks most, but not all, visible light. They are called "black" lights because the UV causes appropriately fluorescent and phosphorescent materials to glow out of proportion to the visible light emitted by the bulb.

Re:They don't look black.

[justin12345]

I didn't think so. The summary links to an illustration that is very misleading.

Ultraviolet astronomy.

[Ungrounded Lightning]

I understand that the definitive text on ultraviolet astronomy was written about then by an astronomer who had also been through the operation.

For him astronomical objects with high UV emission were "naked eye objects". He could just look through the telescope eyepiece and zero in on interesting stuff, when others had to wait for the film to be developed.

Not as big a deal these days, with 'scopes aimed using semiconductor image sensors rather than naked eye. But may still be an advantage.

Re:Is there anything..

[nickersonm]

Flowers are often more varied in the UV than in the standard visible light range.

No Capes! -- Edna Mode

[otmar]

No Capes!

Re:Clothing?

[MightyYar]

Do I really have to suggest to a bunch of /.ers to try and see thru clothing using UV light?

If I could see through clothing, I don't think I could ever shop at Walmart again.

Re:Start hunting?

[Haedrian]

UV vision would let you see semen stains more easily but I'm not sure if that's a superpower or not.

A career in CSI, or pornography set-cleaner.

Of spies and stratagems

[westlake]

One interesting oddity is that I can now see ultraviolet light â" it seems that there are a few people who have photoreceptors sensitive below 400nm into the UV spectrum.

In World War II the OSS recruited elderly cataract patients as coastwatchers --- able to read Morse sent over UV light.

Stanley Lovell's "Of Spies & Stratagems" can be found quite cheaply in paperback and as a legit free download on the web. It's well worth a read.

Lovell was the head of R&D for the OSS, their "Professor Moriarity," and it is here you will learn why.

I see UV too...

[Keebler71]

I see UV too,... at least technically and I don't believe it is that uncommon. In a college quantum physics lab we were looking at the emission spectrum of Hydrogen and the instructor was guiding us through various emission lines. He asked if we could see the purple line and then asked who could see the *other* purple line. I was the only one who could. He said he always asks that because every class there are one or two students (out of about 20) who could see just enough into the UV spectrum to see it. I don't recall which line it was but assume it was the Balmer n=6 line at 397nm.

I can't say this has been particularly more useful to me although I do think I see rainbows as 'wider' than most people with a much thicker "purple" band than others seem to see. Totally subjective and something I can't substantiate but I think I am more sensitive to sunlight as well.

Re:I see UV too...

[Anonymous Coward]

It can also be different in each eye.

My right sees farther into the UV, and my left a bit into IR. It can be confusing when trying to match colors, especially to what someone else wants.

Poker

[houghi]

And then mark the cards with UV paint.

Re:Is there anything..

[betterunixthanunix]

I suppose that many flowers will look different, as well as the plumage of many birds, which have UV color patterns that humans usually do not see:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/science/aaas/2002-01-03-budgies-glow.htm
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cockatiel_under_blacklight.jpg
http://www.naturfotograf.com/UV_ARNI_ANG.html
http://www.naturfotograf.com/UV_LATH_PRA.html
http://i.livescience.com/images/i/7881/i02/fish-uv-pattern-100225-02.jpg?1296089823

There are a number of species of animal that can see ultraviolet light, and a number of plant and animal species have evolved to take advantage of this. Parrots are known for having UV patterns in their feathers, butterflies use UV patterns to communicate with each other, and most flowers have UV patterns to attract insects. Some fish-eating birds use UV light to help identify fish underwater.

So if you are truly able to see UV light, you should be seeing a very interesting world!

Re:Is there anything..

[Runaway1956]

Raptors use UV vision. I read a couple of articles about birds floating in the sky, watching the ground for fresh rodent urine. The urine gives off a bright glow under UV, that is invisible in the "visible" light spectrum.

Re:You know how UV light makes your skin turn dark

[Smidge204]

Any UV likely to reach your eye is non-ionizing. At the energies where it becomes potentially ionizing, it can't travel in air very far... so unless you have an short wavelength UV emitter up against your face there's hardly any danger there.

=Smidge=

Re:You know how UV light makes your skin turn dark

[gilleain]

That may be true for non-ionizing radiation, such as visible and IR. However, because UV light is ionizing, the damage it does is CUMULATIVE. I.e., there is no threshold.

Sayeth wikipedia:

Most ultraviolet is classified as non-ionizing radiation. The higher energies of the ultraviolet spectrum from about 150 nm ('vacuum' ultraviolet) are ionizing, but this type of ultraviolet is not very penetrating and is blocked by air.

So, probably okay unless Ultraman wants to look at a strong source in a vaccum.

Aging does it

[NicknamesAreStupid]

Babies can see further into the UV than adults, probably due to the gradual yellowing of the cornea, which usually becomes apparent in old age. Water reflects UV to varying degrees, too.

Re:Start hunting?

[Joce640k]

Downside: He might find hotel rooms less appealing...

Re:Start hunting?

[Joce640k]

(and he might not be able to buy any more second hand cars ... )

Re:Is there anything..

[ColdWetDog]

Raptors use UV vision. I read a couple of articles about birds floating in the sky, watching the ground for fresh rodent urine. The urine gives off a bright glow under UV, that is invisible in the "visible" light spectrum.

Don't tell Randall about this! He's just recently calmed down.

Re:Is there anything..

[swalve]

Parakeets are also wild to look at in sunlight or with a blacklight.

Re:Start hunting?

[soundguy]

UV vision would let you see semen stains more easily but I'm not sure if that's a superpower or not.

It would be handy in the average strip club, especially in the VIP room

You can cheat at casinos!

[randombilly]

The apple remote uses ultraviolet light, doesn't it? If you point it at a webcam you can see it light up, but when you look at it you can't... So you can have someone use it to signal things for various reasons.. Shrug.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Come on over . . .

[Rob the Bold]

. . . and help me find all the places the cat peed when he had that bladder condition.

spectrometers in Boulder

[Huckminster]

I know all the right people. You're sitting in a very fortunate place (lots of science in Boulder). Email me at noah (dot) bronstein (at) gmail (dot) com if you are serious about finding a spectrometer.

Monochromator in Boulder

[Anonymous Coward]

University of Colorado Boulder happens to have a top notch optics program. There are likely more monochromators in a ten mile radius of the city than almost anywhere else on earth. My suggestion, however, is to consult your ophthalmologist and to be certain that you are not doing damage to your eyes in looking at UV radiation. If you darken a room and turn up the UV, your pupils will dilate and you will see some light below 400 nm. However, UV light exposure to the retina can occur in eyes with natural lenses and can lead to macular degeneration - I would definitely not volunteer for a test with a monochromator in the UV!

Protect your vision - you are lucky to have it!

Re:We should be breeding this trait RIGHT NOW. (NT

[reasterling]

This thread is entirely off topic, but slashdot needs a "+1 more interesting than the current subject" moderation. Thank you for the link.