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Patent Troll Says Anyone Using Wi-Fi Infringes

akahige sends this excerpt from an article at TechDirt: "The Patent Examiner blog has the incredible story of Innovatio IP, a patent troll that recently acquired a portfolio of patents that its lawyers (what, you think there are any employees?) appear to believe cover pretty much any Wi-Fi implementation. They've been suing coffee shops, grocery stores, restaurants and hotels first — including Caribou Coffee, Cosi, Panera Bread Co, certain Marriotts, Best Westerns, Comfort Inns and more. ... The lawyer representing the company, Matthew McAndrews, seems to imply that the company believes the patents cover everyone who has a home Wi-Fi setup, but they don't plan to go after such folks right now, for 'strategic' reasons."

30 of 436 comments (clear)

  1. Nothing from Hams? by nhstar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, I guess amateur radio operators have been infringing since, what... the early 1900's? Voice is just data, right..?

    --
    --- no sig to see here... move along.
    1. Re:Nothing from Hams? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Hey! You! Stop that right now! You leave your logic out of this! This is the patent system we're talking about!

    2. Re:Nothing from Hams? by Sarius64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Developed in the 1960s, used on ARPANET in 1969. Initiated in 1970, the ALOHANET, based at the University of Hawaii, was the first large-scale packet radio project. http://www.tapr.org/pr_intro.html

  2. Take out a hit? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At some point its just cheaper to pay someone to take a hit out on a troll like this. Maybe invite him out on your new yacht and have a little accident...

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Take out a hit? by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If they just get driven out of the patent troll business, they'll just switch to defrauding the elderly or phishing scams.

    2. Re:Take out a hit? by Joey+Vegetables · · Score: 4, Funny

      Have them go out on a hunting trip with Dick Cheney.

    3. Re:Take out a hit? by hrimhari · · Score: 3, Informative

      From the article:

      Return Fire

      Innovatio’s first infringement suit, filed March 8 against Caribou Coffee Co., Cosí, and other small business chains, triggered retaliation from wireless communications giants Motorola Solutions, Inc. and Cisco Systems.

      In May, Motorola and Cisco fired back with a complaint asking for declaratory judgment, calling for the Delaware federal court to rule that their products don’t infringe, and declare Innovatio’s patents invalid.

      “Innovatio is in the business of enforcing and licensing patents,” Motorola and Cisco allege in their complaint. “Innovatio does not sell or offer for sale any products.”

      --
      http://dilbert.com/2010-12-13
    4. Re:Take out a hit? by cgenman · · Score: 5, Funny

      “We want you to continue to use this technology, we just want our client to get his due share,” McAndrews said. “This is not a seat-of-the-pants, fly-by-night shakedown.”

      Well, they admitted that it's a professional shakedown. A professional hit seems only fair.

    5. Re:Take out a hit? by sg_oneill · · Score: 4, Funny

      Burn down their house, enslave their children, forcibly sell their wives into slavery. Napalm the suburb, nuke the capital. Use waterboarding, electric shock, exposure and "pressure points". Rape their dog, garrot their parents, and TNT the homes of their high school sweethearts.

      But please, we live in a civilized world, lets not debase ourselves with such barbarianism as asking our enemys go on hunting trips with Dick cheney.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
  3. 'Strategic' reasons being ... by recrudescence · · Score: 3, Funny

    what, avoiding a lynch mob?

  4. Only one solution. by Ariastis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Kill them with fire.

    1. Re:Only one solution. by DarkFencer · · Score: 4, Funny

      Kill them with fire.

      Not enough. These aren't your run of the mill D&D trolls that can be killed by fire.

      Nuke from orbit to be sure.

  5. Classic patent trolling by JoshuaZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ok. This is classic patent trolling. They aren't going after the Wi-Fi manufacturers who have the resources to possibly fight this in court but rather going against the little people. There's an obvious fix for this. Force people to sue the companies that make potentially infringing technologies rather than the people who buy them until there's a precedent with the company that the tech is infringing. Unfortunately, with the grab-bag of junk that is America Invents now done, everyone is going to avoid serious patent reform for another decade. So this isn't getting fixed for a while. Then we'll probably get some other terrible mix of good and bad stuff in some new law and the whole process will repeat itself. Good for the lawyers. Not very good for everyone else.

    1. Re:Classic patent trolling by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 3, Insightful

      How the christ can it possibly be legal to sue people who use technology that infringes a patent which was sold to them by someone else?

      Isn't the whole enterprise of patents supposed to cover the manufacture and commercial sale of inventions, not their use?

    2. Re:Classic patent trolling by Genda · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ask to meet all their top executives of this cesspool, take them out on a rented yacht. Insure it to high hell. Take it off the coast of Mexico, and inform the local drug cartel that a bunch of wealthy gringos are meeting to figure out a way bomb them off the face of the earth, then over take their drug business. After the smoke, screaming and mutilation stop... go collect your insurance, pay off the boat owner, and pocket the remainder. Inform the U.S. justice system that Mexican Drug Lords have murdered American national. Let Karma play out and consider justice has been dispensed on all fronts. Building a better world one elimination at a time!

    3. Re:Classic patent trolling by anubi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is what we get with an out-of-control poorly-administered patenting system.

      Can we patent football plays? That would get their attention.

      Its time for our government to try like the dickens to encourage people doing things, not beat the hell out of anyone caught trying to do something.

      When it comes to productive economic activity, our government seems to look at us like moonshiners.

      I wait with baited breath for our government to realize one day that we can't print prosperity, or get it by taking it away from someone else. We have to build it. Once we realize that, we will have unlimited prosperity.

      --
      "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]

    4. Re:Classic patent trolling by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Because the U.S. patent system is fundamentally and completely broken. Patents cover the manufacture, distribution, or use of a patented technology. What, you didn't really think you owned that Wi-Fi access point, did you?

      The only reason this complete joke of a scheme hasn't led to public outcry is that the patent trolls haven't managed to screw over a broad enough segment of the population to make any real impact. If strict application of patent law were to allow some dirtbag company like this to take away the country's Internet connections, however, I predict all of Washington D.C. would be burning within the hour, sure as if Congress canceled Monday Night Football.

      As for this company, I vote we just go ahead and declare them to be enemy combatants and get it over with. It'll save everyone the trouble of dealing with the rioting and looting later. Just saying.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    5. Re:Classic patent trolling by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Admit it; you're Randall Munroe's man in a hat aren't you?

    6. Re:Classic patent trolling by Ocyris · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually a google search indicates that Innovatio IP Ventures, LLC is being used by Cisco Systems, Inc. and Motorola Solutions, Inc. Papers were filed back in May.

  6. Re:"Strategic Reasons" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They could not recoup their losses going after home users the way they can with business users.

    What losses?

  7. Short term thinking by Weedhopper · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This solves one problem only once. Then the portfolios passes to the next person and the problem repeats itself.

    To solve the general problem, we need to encourage more ridiculous patent trolls. This needs to get to a critical threshold where the entire system is brought on trial and exposed for the absolute absurdity that it is.

    1. Re:Short term thinking by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Funny

      This solves one problem only once. Then the portfolios passes to the next person and the problem repeats itself.

      So does the solution. Repeat as necessary

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    2. Re:Short term thinking by couchslug · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If the first guy is found choked to death on his severed genitals (the old Mafia punishment for snitches) it might give others pause.

      While I'm not advocating such things, let's not forget that in the early 1900s gangs were NECESSARY because there was no justice to be had from a flawlessly corrupt government. For anyone to get leverage they had to mob up. Union membership could get you murdered, so the unions had to make friends with the Mob to get a "system" on their side. As the elites squeeze out the people, organized "crime" will be the only way for some of them to get a modicum of power.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  8. Re:I don't see the rationale by mbkennel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The page linked to by this summary did not explain why the patent trolls are going after the users of WiFi devices, rather than vendors."

    actually it did:

    "The company is demanding a one-time lump sum licensing payment between $2,300 and $5,000 from each of the several hundred defendants targeted in its lawsuits, McAndrews said. Some of the defendants have already settled, he added."

    "In casting such a wide net, Innovatio (it means “innovation” in Latin, McAndrews said) displays a new approach in patent enforcement. In a field where patent-holding companies often demand six- or seven-figure dollar amounts for damages, five-figure settlements are considered basement-low. By demanding a few thousand dollars, Innovatio ensures that, for many small business owners, taking up a legal defense won’t make financial sense."

    They are suing when they can pursue action cheaper than the defendant can defend. If the patent were strong they'd go after big money, but the big money will fight and since the patent is weak, they will instead play spam.

    Also, by suing a large number of people in diverse locations and jurisdictions they will make it difficult for defendants to defend collectively and economically.

    Think of all the Jobs Being Created by the Job Creator Class, isn't it lovely?

  9. This is why... by bky1701 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...the western world's economy is collapsing. When you make ideas property, everyone gets hurt, even the big guys (but more so, the little guys). We already have patents and copyright strangling the market and preventing innovation, and now we're seeing more and more their use to undermine technology that is already a basis part of out society.

    This is just another example in an infinitely long chain of abuses, and still there is essentially no proof that either patents or copyright actually encourage much of anything. So, are we going to abolish imaginary property, or fade into legally enforced obscurity? Because I know China won't give a crap about our patents once they no longer need to sell us cheap junk. If all we export is old ideas and lawsuits, there will reach a point when other powerful countries just shut down that trade all together.

    Wake up, people, now is the time to elect people who are going to do something about this untenable situation. You aren't going to get another chance.

  10. Re:CSIRO by femto · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'd like to know what number patents Innovatio are using. The CSIRO patent (5,487,069, filed in 1992) was a pretty complete description of the 802.11 OFDM physical layer. Surely anything else has to be a minor and obvious increment? The oldest patent I can see, with inventors Meier and Mahany, is 5,394,436, filed in 1994, and it does not refer to the CSIRO patent (meaning it is open to challenge from the CSIRO patent?) 5,394,436 might apply to the MAC layer, rather than the physical layer, and it is quite vague. Defenders might want to refer to the PARROT project, which the CSIRO was running as part of its WLAN work, predating 5,394,436. PARROT was a complete WLAN MAC layer (google: csiro parrot mac layer).

    There was also a PhD thesis that came out of Macquarie University in the early 1990's. The name of the author escapes me, but the supervisor was David Skellern. The thesis described a MAC layer for mobile IP, and fed heavily into the standards at the time.

  11. Re:CSIRO by femto · · Score: 4, Informative

    Andrew Myles was the author of the thesis.

  12. Who says betterment of mankind? by mbkennel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hat Guy is in it for the movie rights.

  13. Crazy Pianist and Brilliant Babe Patent Wi-Fi Tech by boddhisatva · · Score: 3, Informative

    On August 11, 1942, US Patent 2,292,387 was granted to George Antheil and "Hedy Kiesler Markey", Heddy Lamarr's married name at the time. This early version of frequency hopping used a piano roll to change between 88 frequencies and was intended to make radio-guided torpedoes harder for enemies to detect or jam. It was never implemented at the time. Perhaps owing to this lag in development, the patent was little-known until 1997, when the Electronic Frontier Foundation gave Lamarr an award for this contribution. Lamarr and Antheil's frequency-hopping idea serves as the basis for modern spread-spectrum communication technology, such as Wi-Fi. Antheil was pianist who wrote some Hollywood film music and performed. He was one brick short of a load and was known to come out to perform and lay a pistol on the piano implying that he would shoot anyone who disturbed the performance. In 1933 Heddy Lamarr became famous (or infamous) for making the film "Ecstasy" in which she appeared nude and was depicted having an orgasm. It was banned pretty much everywhere. When promoting war bonds she offered to kiss any man who bought at least $250K. She raised $7 million in one night. President Obama has ordered an overhaul of the patent system. Currently 500,000 patent applications haven't even been opened. I'm personally considering a patent on "selling things for money". If you have an algorithm you want to patent, consider programming that piece of code into an FPGA using VHDL and patent the circuit. Patents on circuits hold up very well in court.

  14. Re:CSIRO by Stellian · · Score: 4, Informative

    They have 34 assorted patents that they are using as an Argumentum Verbosium - Proof by intimidation. They make up hundreds of pages of legalese, there's no way a business can defend itself without spending tens of thousands on patent attorneys to examine those claims and cross-check them against the WiFi standards. Below are the 17 patents asserted against Holiday Inn, have fun. (Talk about "redundant" patents!)

      6,714,559 “Redundant Radio Frequency Network Having A Roaming Terminal Communication Protocol.”
      7,386,002 “Redundant Radio Frequency Network Having A Roaming Terminal Communication Protocol.”
      7,535,921 “Redundant Radio Frequency Network Having A Roaming Terminal Communication Protocol.”
      7,548,553 “Redundant Radio Frequency Network Having A Roaming Terminal Communication Protocol.”
      5,740,366 “Communication Network Having Plurality Of Bridging Nodes Which Transmit A Beacon To Terminal Nodes In Power Saving State That It Has Messages Awaiting Delivery.”
      5,940,771 “Network Supporting Roaming, Sleeping Terminals.”
      6,374,311 “Communication Network Having A Plurality Of Bridging Nodes Which Transmit A Beacon To Terminal Nodes In Power Saving State That It Has Messages Awaiting Delivery.”
      7,457,646 “Radio Frequency Local Area Network.”
      5,546,397 “High Reliability Access Point For Wireless Local Area Network.”
      5,844,893 “System For Coupling Host Computer Means With Base Transceiver Units On A Local Area Network.”
      6,665,536 “Local Area Network Having Multiple Channel Wireless Access.”
      6,697,415 “Spread Spectrum Transceiver Module Utilizing Multiple Mode Transmission.”
      7,013,138 “Local Area Network Having Multiple Channel Wireless Access.”
      7,710,907 “Local Area Network Having Multiple Channel Wireless Access.”
      7,916,747 “Redundant Radio Frequency Network Having A Roaming Terminal Communication Protocol.”
      7,873,343 “Communication Network Terminal With Sleep Capability.”
      7,536,167 “Network Supporting Roaming, Sleeping Terminals.”