Looking Back On a Year of LibreOffice

superapecommando writes "Simon Phipps, former head of open source at Sun and a backer of LibreOffice, looks at a tempestuous year for the OpenOffice fork. 'Once framed as an impetuous fork, LibreOffice has become the standard-bearer for the former OpenOffice community,' he says. 'It's far from perfect, of course. New open source projects never are and volunteer projects lack the corporate resources to make it look otherwise. But I have no doubt that it's working.'"

Comments

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[Master Moose]

LibreOffice and OpenOffice both still seem really heavy. Java probably has something to do with it, but they just aren't nice to use. On top of that the UI starts to get kind of old.. I started using Office 2010 just lately and I have to say I love the Ribbon interface. It keeps useless stuff out of the screen and is fast and pleasant to use. It takes some time to get used to, but once you do there's no going back to the old clumsy interfaces.

I agree with the Heavy and the Java bit - But no, I do not want a ribbon!

I use OO

Customisable toolbars = yes but a ribbon and no menu - No thank you.

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[mprinkey]

I have to agree about the heft. But I prefer the "old" style interface. I had to install Office 2007 to interact with some clients and I am completely lost. I've been using word processors since the C64 days, but this is the first time I decades that I have stared blankly at a program and had to click on every menu/button/active splotch trying to find out how to turn on Track Changes.

Of course, people can get used to the interface and maybe following the mythical transition, I will be enamored with its interface glory. But it just seems different for difference's sake...like .docx and .xlsx where.

To the LibreOffice folks, you really need to do a top-down performance/memory analysis. I like it and will continue to use it, but I don't see why it needs to be the resource hog it is.

Java Not Required

[CritterNYC]

Java is only used for the Base database utility and a number of new document wizards plus a few other minor bits. The rest of LibreOffice has no Java components, so Java has nothing to do with normal usage of the word processor, spreadsheet, presentation tool or drawing programs. Ribbon use is subjective. Like many others, I hate it. It's clumsy and harder to find what you need.

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[TENTH SHOW JAM]

The org I work for shells out for MSDN subscription for me. I get Office 2010 for FREE and still use LibreOffice. My needs are simple and do not include learning a new interface.

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[xeoron]

I agree no ribbon please. Instead, how about being able to print to a printer on 8.5x11 paper without causing the Ricoh printer at my work to think it is a improper paper size (despite all the settings claiming it is: with double checking printer and page-layout settings). At least I can export it to a pdf and print the pdf with any pdf viewer with no problem (I don't even have to tweak the page scaling for it to print properly so it must be some OO.o & LibbreOffice bug) just wish I did not have to do these extra steps for myself, and teach co-workers the work arounds.

Re:Lotus Symphony

[contrapunctus]

don't you have to give your name/email to IBM and agree to the license before you can use Lotus Symphony?

Java?

[causality]

Strip out the Java, modernize the ui.

Maybe someone with more real-world experience using Java can clarify this for me.

When I look into Java's performance, I see lots of cases where it's "nearly as fast as compiled C/C++ code" etc. The (narrowly-defined) numbers do look pretty good. Yet I have a similar experience: most applications I use which are partially or wholly written in Java feel slow, particularly in terms of UI responsiveness.

Is this actually a contradiction? Is there anyone who incorporates Java into a major desktop application and (in terms of performance) does it well?

Re:Java?

[MechaStreisand]

The problem is generally that Java applications become huge and bloated because the language is so verbose and inexpressive. See Steve Yegge's essay on the topic.

Re:Java?

[oakgrove]

Well, coming from a Python coder's perspective, I'll put it like this. Python's runtime isn't the fastest but the GUI toolkits used with it are usually either written in C (Gtk) or C++ (Qt) and my Python programs appear to run much faster than the equivalent Java program using its native Swing because the ui is just so much snappier. It really must be mostly a graphical toolkit issue. Anecdotally, Android apps are generally coded in Java (albeit Dalvik bytecode) and the applications on my Nexus S run blazingly fast.

Re:Java?

[Yosho]

Is there anyone who incorporates Java into a major desktop application and (in terms of performance) does it well?

The problem here isn't with Java, it's with Swing (Java's native GUI toolkit). Swing is terribly slow. Applications written in Java with another toolkit, such as SWT or Qt, are fine. Azureus, for example, is a fairly popular BitTorrent client that is written in Java/SWT. (to be fair, the application itself is pretty bloated, but that has little to do with Java and more to do with the developers cramming in every feature under the sun)

Re:Java?

[blueg3]

Are you claiming that py2exe doesn't exist? Or are you trying to make a larger, grossly misinformed point about the architecture of modern computation?

Re:Java?

[oakgrove]

What can your standalone application actually do that my Python script can't? A python script requiring a runtime is a pretty silly criticism when ultimately everything on your computer requires something else. I get paid for results and for me, python gets me those results and fast. And if there is a hotspot in my code that requires more speed than python offers, I just write it in C. With Python, C libraries can be seamlessly imported and used. It's the best of both worlds.

Re:Java?

[ThorGod]

You can't create a stand alone app. That makes it a non-language. You're just a script kiddie.

I'll just put this out there, who cares? Even in "The C Programming Language" K&R state it's more important to have good, working code than fast code.* Only after 'it works' should you worry about optimization. So, if you're not optimizing your code, what's to stop you from prototyping in python? Or, for that matter, doing any of the many other tasks that don't require byte code. (For instance, python + sqlite work GREAT as a replacement to excel/access. There's also scipy.)

So what if you can't write microsoft access in python? Who would WANT to rewrite access if access wont quite do the job?

Also, there are ways to make stand-alone python applications. But, again, why tie yourself down to a specific OS?

*This might be the wrong book for the right quote, but it's still sound coding mentality. Get it right, and THEN get it fast, if it's even a task you'll do more than a couple times!

Re:Java?

[StormyMonday]

As others have pointed out, the main Java GUI (SWING) is a real pig. This is a result of Java's "compile once, run anywhere" philosophy colliding with different OS GUIs.

The other problem is that Java's startup time is ridiculous. Load the VM, load the code, load the libraries (*lots* of libraries!), verify the libraries and the code, initialize the libraries (lots of .properties files!) and the code, and then run.

Once the startup hooplah is over, Java code is quite reasonably fast. Benchmarks either minimize the startup time by, say, running 10,000 iterations of a loop, or eliminating it entirely by using "flying start" techniques.

Re:Java?

[TheRaven64]

Azureus on OS X had the distinction of being the first app I've seen with a CPU leak. If you started it up, it would gradually climb (over about a period of 2 hours) to using 100% of the CPU. Even if you didn't start any torrents or touch the UI. If that's what Java developers think 'not slow and bloated' means, then I'm glad I don't have a JVM installed anymore...

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[MechaStreisand]

You prefer the ribbon interface? That sort of response is not surprising. Not everyone likes the ribbon - I loathe it and would love for its designers to never have a job in software again - and right now, LibreOffice hasn't been infected with it, and I would like to keep it that way.

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[oakgrove]

It's no wonder open source isn't going anywhere

That's some pretty serious denial you got going on there.

Great improvements this year

[vossman77]

I switched immediately after the fork and have been really happy. I had to use NeoOffice before because OpenOffice is completely unusable on MacOSX.

Re:don't get open/libre

[Nimey]

It's free, it's cross-platform, and it's good enough for many tasks.

It certainly could use improvements in many areas, but it does OK.

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[i58]

How about I don't like it, I don't find it intuitive, and I don't see why you have to kill menus to have a ribbon. What happened to that choice thing? Why do we have to have one or the other?

All That I use

[rueger]

For years I always installed OpenOffice, but always wound up relying on MS Office because OO was slower, only about 85% compatible in terms of opening and saving files, and just generally wasn't as good. And as good as WINE is, running the MS product on Linux is not always easy or fast.

When I upgraded Ubuntu to natty LibreOffice came with it. I can honestly say that I haven't opened up Excel or Word for weeks. LO opens all of my existing files, with formatting unchanged, and works flawlessly. Plus it has that glorious one button PDF export, which in the past was so good that I would write in Word, save, and then open in OO just to use it.

For most people who use a lot of Word or Excel, but not the more exotic functions, I'd say try LibreOffice. It's fast, and does great job. It's what OO always tried to be, but failed.

Disclaimer: I still miss WordPerfect 5.1 and Reveal Codes.

Re:All That I use

[Richard_at_work]

I stopped using PDFCreator back when their SF installer started coming with malware auto-installed, even if you said no to the browser bar.

Instead, I use the MS plugin for Office which supplies PDF as a save as option.

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[Master Moose]

Terrified of change – no.

To me, the ribbon is an oversized tool taking up too much space, displaying too much information and has been change for change sake.

When it comes to supporting users. The ribbon is seen by many as a drastic change. The people who it took years to get used to the idea of looking in one place for information now need to get used to looking elsewhere.

I like the idea of a customisable toolbar (much like Office 2007+ Quick Access Toolbar) but coupled with Menus. I want less clutter on my screen, not more.

Menus keep relative functions stored in a neat and accessible way until needed. They encourage the learning of keyboard shortcuts through their underlining and display rather than having to rely on pop ups.

Menus keep relative functions stored in a neat and accessable way until needed. They encourage the learning of keyboard shortcuts through their underlining and display rather than having to rely on pop ups.

Runs much better, but

[tyrione]

I've still yet to use it. For Data acquisition I've got MATLAB. For numerical analysis I've got MATLAB and Octave, never mind other options. For Publishing I've got LaTeX/XeTeX. I'm glad i have it and will start leveraging Calc and more sooner rather than later, but it's not like the old days when Borland Quattro Pro for Engineers and AmiPro for word processing were fighting against Excel, Lotus 1-2-3, Word 2.0, etc.

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[pavon]

You honestly think that for example Microsoft would response to my suggestions with a "fuck you"?

No, but MS fanboys do that all the time on discussion boards. Just like happened here. It doesn't make sense to equate a random idiot on a discussion board with the actual developers of the software.

Lacking templates

[jbov]

Disclaimer: I rarely use any office products.
I was an OO user, but switched to LibreOffice when Debian made the switch. I've been happy the few times I've used it.

Over the years, while trying to sell the idea of OO or LO to clients and friends, I've not had much success. Other than the ridiculous gripe they've had about not saving new documents as MS .doc formats by default, the major complaint has been lack of templates. A vanilla install of OO or LO doesn't have nearly the amount of templates that are bundled with MS Office. I tried pointing these users to template downloads at thedocumentfoundation.org, but there are only a handful there as well. Additionally, I just checked the LibreOffice site, and they suggest visiting opentemplate.org, which appears to be down.

As I said, I don't use any Office programs, but there is the feedback I've gotten from people I referred to OO & LO.

I've had more success with family members, but then again they are all converted to linux and never looked back.

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[arth1]

Do you have a reason, or are you just terrified of change?

I can't speak for the GP, but I want more screen real estate, as well as consistency without having to do different things depending on what "mode" I'm in. Ribbons defeat both.

Re:Libre Light?

[Nutria]

Honestly, I think you could strip out 60% of it and it would serve most average users quite well for home use

That would be AbiWord.

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[mcavic]

To me, the ribbon is an oversized tool taking up too much space, displaying too much information and has been change for change sake.

Menus keep relative functions stored in a neat and accessible way until needed.

Yes.

LibreOffice on OS X Lion

[lloy0076]

LibreOffice works well enough on OS X Lion as does OpenOffice.org. However, neither of them are a native OS X application with the look and feel and this is a reasonable deal breaker for me. Plus it's not as fast as MS Office running under VMWare Fusion!

DSL

Re:It feels too heavy and old

[tudsworth]

Most of us comb our own neckbeards, you insensitive clod!

Re:don't get open/libre

[TheRaven64]

I've written four books now, and I used LaTeX for all of them. For semantic markup, clean output, and getting out of my way and letting me think about the content, I've not found anything better. Inserting a code listing, for example, into OpenOffice is painful. In LaTeX it's a single command to import a set of lines from the file, syntax highlight it, and insert it as a floating section with a cross reference and an entry in the table of contents.