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Tablet Makers Try To Beat iPad's $500 Pricetag
The iPad has sold extremely well at a starting price of $500 but "that kind of pricing doesn't work for many tablet vendors," says a story at CNET. And recent price drops reflect this. It's been a rough year for tablet makers, and it's not even Black Friday yet.
There has never been an "tablet market". There is an "ipad market" now. It didn't exist when Apple initially launched the iPad, but they managed to "open the market" (clearly that legion of loyal fans had a role on that).
The rest of the vendors don't have that critical mass of early adopters, and/or their product isn't as good (or perceived as good) as the iPad.
The people who can afford them, pick iPads, or nothing at all. The rest of us have higher priorities than buying second-class tablets.
Less than half the screen size, half the memory, and a subsidized price tag makes that easier for them.
Except iOS devices aren't loss leaders for Apple. Apple makes a negligible amount of profit off of its App Store. The bulk of Apple's profit comes from every device that goes out the door—whether it's paid for by you or by a combination of you and your mobile carrier.
I'm never sure what to make of a statement like this. Are there people outside of insane asylums who think that Apple has some sort of a lock on any market?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Other vendors are pushing products that are feature complete, but not design complete. You can't sell high end stuff in the same way as you sell low end stuff. For end stuff you need attention to detail and a presentation that reassures people it is not some random cheap product sold at a higher margin.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
1) iPad most definitely *not* sold at a loss - nowhere close.
2) iTunes Store/App Store run at very minimal profit. It is over break even, but not by much.
*sources, Apple's officially filed financial statements, every year since the launch of the iTunes Store.
Or, they could just apply absurd levels of marketing (especially product placement) to convince everyone that the cool people use your product...
Great Intellect...
Now they just seriously fumbled the iPhone ball by ...
... selling out the complete stock of the new device in only a couple days?
Nothing says failure like profit. Nothing says fumble like tripping over piles of gold.
I don't have a dog in the fight; I have no desire to own a smart phone. But I do like laughing at the android folks, those guys are hilarious. I hope they win, they have a cool idea, ethic, and philosophy, but that doesn't mean the rest of us aren't laughing at them.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
Have you ever considered that there are jobs out there where you don't sit behind a desk?
Kindle-like devices are market-transforming for the eBook market, but from the standpoint of the computer market, they're basically a niche player. 10" tablets are big enough to replace many uses of a laptop or desktop computer and handle the equivalent of a full sheet of paper, so they're not just supporting niche applications like Angry Birds or phone-sized mini-browsers, they're enough to do full-sized web browsing. Maybe a 7" tablet can steal part of that market at half the price, but I'm skeptical.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
The list goes on and on, but all the people who ask the question don't care at all about any of that. Pity, they should.
Why should they? That's a serious question, I'm not trying to troll here or be flamebait.
The demographic for the iPad is completely divorced from the features you have listed as the main reasons you went for a non-iPad tablet, and given that you can get those other types of tablets, and the users getting iPads are also getting what they want, why should they care?
If they want to program on it, or run Python apps, or install custom firmwares and so on, then there's a market that already caters to that. If they want what the iPad does, then they have the iPad.
Just because the iPad doesn't fit your use case doesn't mean that anyone who doesn't want to do the things you do with computing equipment is somehow wrong, or that they should care about what you care about.
Don't get carried away. Desktops are not dead and aren't going away. Pads, Laptops and Desktops all serve different purposes. When you need the cpu power, massive ram and expansion capabilities of a tower a pad isn't going to cut it.
If you believe the iPad isn't sold at a loss, then I have a bridge to sell you.
If you believe it is sold at a lost you would be an idiot. Here are some facts.
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/07/19Apple-Reports-Third-Quarter-Results.html
From q2 2011 to q3 2011 Apples revenue decreased in the App Store, iTunes Stores. Yet their profit increased from q2 to q3. Now how can it be that they had decreased revenue and increased profit if they according to you make the bulk of their profit off these ventures and not the hardware which had increases in revenue?
I can program it without paying a fee.
You can program the iPad without paying a fee. There's a fee if you want to publish to the store, however.
To get the best tools for developing for iOS, it's true that you want a Mac with Xcode, but it's not your only option anymore.
It's open source.
Could you point me to the Honeycomb source? Last I heard, it's never going to be available.
It's Linux.
Why is this valuable? The kernel that runs the Thrive is Linux, but that's almost completely irrelevant. For underlying OS code, I'm going to prefer that which does the job best. That might be Linux, or it might be something else. "It's Linux," smacks of the same kind of kool-aid drinking of which Apple users are so often accused.
I can run Python apps.
Certainly a nifty feature. However why should "all the people who ask the question" care about that? How many of them are going to care? Almost every one of them will just use apps from the Market.
I'm not hating on the Thrive, which looks like a very decent tablet. I'm just sick of the FUD, and I'm really tired of hearing about how open Android is, when it really doesn't follow FOSS principles at all. Most Android phones have to be hacked just like iPhones in order to replace the ROM. On those which don't, you lose all claim to a warranty (absent consumer protections to the contrary, which you'd have to fight in court in order to keep.)
Android is open in the same way that TiVo is open. You might be able to see the source (not so on 3.1, apparently) but you likely won't be able to modify it and run it on your device.
Conversely, I'm skeptical on 10" tablets (actually, I'm skeptical about the whole market, but 10" in particular). After using an iPad2, that thing is monstrously heavy, and I could find no comfortable way to hold it. Sure, you can put it up on a stand, but once it's that awkward, a laptop would serve just as well. I could imagine 7" being a bit more manageable.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
There is no universe in which Starbucks, the coffee of choice for soccer moms and middle-aged former yuppies, makes anyone look cool, or in which anyone actually imagines that starbucks makes them look cool.
The reason sbux succeeds despite having mediocre coffee is roughly the same as the reason mcdonalds succeeds: they're "good enough," "quick enough," "convenient enough" and "consistent enough."
Maybe when sbux first began showing up there was some small amount of cachet, but they're just another brand right now.
A much, much better example of marketing that succeeded at making doofuses feel cool would be American Apparel. The clothing that company offered was fantastically ugly, looked good on no one, and was ridiculously expensive. Yet the marketing played it up as so cool it doesn't even know it's cool/only for the super-sexy people, and a certain segment bought into it hardcore.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
"Go to a university or place where the younger crowd hangs. Take a look around. Open your eyes. Then come back and tell me what you see *on average*, not under some one-off Linux nerd's desk."
Exactly, I went to a hipster cafe and I saw ZERO desktops being carried around. Oh, wait...
AC, if they can save money on education in the form of books, they can spend that on toilets.
The bulk of Apple's profit comes from every device that goes out the door—whether it's paid for by you or by a combination of you and your mobile carrier.
Don't worry, you pay 100% the cost of your iPhone. Your mobile carrier is nice enough to loan you the bulk of the purchase price and then extract it from you over the course of a 2-year contract, at an unspecified interest rate. It's similar to loan sharking, except there's no disclosure. :)
How is that different from any other phone that the carrier sells? In fact, the carrier pays a larger subsidy for $200 iPhone than a $200 Android device and the customer still pays the same monthly amount for the same service.
It's when two operating systems fight to the death for the privilege of running on a piece of hardware.
Are you going to talk about `post pc` now, or how the iPad will make PCs redundant?
"Post PC" was never about the PC being redundant. Only that other platforms were equal to it, that the PC was no longer necessarily a primary device.
For some people, yes an iPad does replace a PC. For some uses (like travel) an iPad can replace a PC for quite a lot of people.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
And so what ? Selling to same people (that are already apple users) over and over again is easy
They aren't, statistically around 50% of iPhone buyers of any vintage have been new to the platform.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I do like asking them questions about their computer, because the answers they give are awesome. I've found that many of the ones who claim to be power users don't even know what duel booting is, or even how to access their command line.
While I'm sure you can find such users on any platform, At this point it would seem the majority of technical users have switched to using Apple gear. Just look around ANY technical conference at the mix of laptops there... I personally come from many years of using UNIX and switched as soon as Apple produced OSX. I was just tired of trying to get Cygwin to work well in Windows and that was after a number of years of using Linux, but getting tired of administering my own system...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's funny how you often see Apple fans saying this. But then when someone suggests that Apple should be regulated as a monopoly for its abusive practices surrounding its walled-garden, the fans' tunes immediately change (and I'm not addressing you in particular), and they say nooo there's a thriving ecosystem full of competition.
Though frankly, I think that the latter might be true. A year ago, people were saying that there is no tablet market, only an iPad market, and Apple's market share was hovering around 95% in tablets. At the last keynote, Apple was trumpeting that they control 75% of the market share in tablets. Losing 20% market share in a single year is actually pretty startling.
Now of course they had nowhere to go but down from 95%, but at 75% I think there actually is a tablet market, and not an iPad market, and any heavy-handed government regulation is probably uncalled for.
Apple made 7 billion in profit in the second quarter of 2011 alone - 500 million over the course of a year (or over the course of 3 ish years, give or take a bit up or down - the app store has been open for three years and has paid 2.5 billion to developers [that's the 70%]). It's certainly not coming from the App Store if they do a 30/70 split (as famously derided on here often) and the 70% side of that split adds up to 2.5 billion.
Like I said, the store does turn a profit, but it is *enormously* dwarfed by the profits from hardware sales - ie, my point was to refute the GP's argument that not only are Apple making their 16 billion in annual profit mainly from "iTunes/app store content sales by skimming off the top", but that they're also selling the iPad at a loss which is why no one else can make a cheaper tablet.
In other words, his arguments are total nonsense. The iTunes Store and the App Store exist to drive hardware sales, not the other way around.
Of course, but tell me, given that they made 16 billion in profit in 2010, there or thereabouts, and that over the 3 year life of the iOS App Store Apple have paid 2.5 billion dollars to developers (their 70% cut), how does that magically translate to such a nice profit for Apple, *especially* if (as claimed by the OP) that the iPad is sold at a loss so that Apple can make hay on the App Store.
Let me guess, you're one of those people who automatically assume the opposite of anything a company says? It's hip to be that cynical, but it's not always accurate. Don't you get tired of there being conspiracies everywhere?
But if your argument is "I won't buy Apple because they outsource their manufacturing to the third world" then using an Android tablet is hardly taking the high ground.
Your arguments were not based on moral issues though - you were purely talking about the function of the device (unless we go down the road that Free Software is a moral issue, but assuming it's one of a couple of choices for a moment), so conflating this with the issues of globalisation and worker and environmental exploitation seems disingenuous, since in that respect there's not much to choose between any electronics manufacturer (that's not to say it's ok, or that we shouldn't continue to push for a better situation).
Your initial argument essentially boiled down to "people who bought iPads should care that the iPad is not like the Thrive", but I have to wonder why, given that both products are available, serving very different demographics.
There was one point where I was going to give a laptop to my mother, so that she could check and write e-mails from home. But even the basics of walking her through setting up a wireless network from across the country was basically insurmountable.
Comparatively, an iPad with a 3G connection would just work. No Antivirus. Simple configuration. Easy to work with. I'd have a hard time explaining to my mother how to even send an e-mail with Outlook. With the iPad it's just tap and type.
Most of the android pads I've worked with are getting better, but it's not there yet.
The ______ Agenda
Sorry, not quite. I can afford it and chose differently. My Asus T101 Transformer is a better device. I have an iPad2 at work, but I chose the Transformer when spending my own money and am happier with it than the iPad.
The ability to drop it into the keyboard and have the USB ports, full SDHC slot and extra battery is fantastic. I can actually type when I want to type. Then I can just pull it out and take the tablet with me when I head out. That is a major plus that a BlueTooth keyboard just doesn't match.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Some of the Android tablets are quite nice. Particularly the Asus Transformer, the Acer Iconia Tab, the Samsung Galaxy Tab. Any day now the Tegra 3 models will be out and they promise to be astounding. For myself I prefer the widescreen layout.
Yes, the iPad is doing very well. That doesn't mean there's no hope for others. Agree about HP, RIM, Cisco and some of the others looking to put their own proprietary spin on things.
There's also huge demand for the lower-end Android tablet in places where money is harder to get. There are places in this world where the $500 entry price for an iPad is just too much money. It's easy enough to say that if you can't get the good one, do without - but the lesser things can still be darned useful. It's nice that there are hundreds of alternatives for those folks to use.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
THANK YOU
I will never, ever understand why so many tech geeks will devote hours and hours to understanding the most trivial or obscure points of technical detail, but fail to do the most basic research when pronouncing opinions on business matters.
As a geek who is also addicted to gambling on stocks, I applaud you sir
No point in addressing your more emotional issues, but it's worth noting that the $500m figure for 2008 was revenue, not profit. When people say Apple doesn't make much from the app store, they are referring to profit, not revenue. Don't let that get in the way of a good rant, though. Please include "sheeple" in your next post, as I almost got superiority complex bingo on this one.
If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
Well, if you want a better UI than Apple, look no further than the Playbook -- it makes the iPad look like a pocket calculator. I could also point you to the now defunct HP Touchpad, which also had an amazing UI.
On the User experience between the Transformer and the iPad2, I'm not sure where you think the iPad provides a better user experience. You can make vague statements like "it's more polished" but that's not exactly helpful, is it? If you want to make that claim, you'll need to provide more details.
Required reading for internet skeptics
I don't disagree with your points, but part of the challenge Android makers have is consumer attention. "Hundreds of alternatives" can be good for consumers but bad for manufacturers... I follow tech closely, and I'd only heard of one of the three Android tablets you mentioned.
If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
The Transformer did 400,000 total, and this isn't sales, it's shipments to retail channels.
Yes, the iPad is doing more in a week than the others are doing in a year, because the Transformer is still sitting at 400K units, total production.
No, it's really 400,000 a month and the goal is for over 2 million units this year. The Transformer 2 will be out for Christmas with 5 cores for only $500 and promises to move really well. And the Kindle Fire presold, sight unseen, over 250,000 units in the first five days of presales - on its way to an estimated 2.5 million units its first month.
The iPad is nice gear. But this race isn't over yet.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Some words I have to look up over and over again, like tautology. You are correct though. my statements where circular on the face. Companies seem to me to be saying(advertising), "Ours is the best!" Then they seem to build the worst experience instead.
I will assume your use of, "lock-in," in your response is a allusion to any of, iTunes, iTunes Music Store, iOS App store, or any number of other products created by Apple(maybe you aren't even being that specific, maybe you really meant in general). This is not an inaccurate assessment of these products, but lock-in implies that they are there to prevent a cutomer from switching away from the crappy service or product they already own, such as a low-interest/high-fee bank account, or an ETF for shitty wireless service. In the case of Apple, the services I mention above seem to create the very reason why going with Apple products and services are a good thing. Leave aside your hang-ups about not being able to run any app you want or loading your own OS on the iOS hardware(I would wager that less than 1% of people who own or can afford to own the devices care about the standard slashdot arguments against iOS devices). The fact is that the hardware is well made and backed by a warranty that is reported to be fairly well executed. Even if you do have objections about the hardware, too slow, not as many cores as you would like, not enough ram, camera or whatever else. All of the tablets on the market today have roughly similar hardware specs. The thing that differentiates each companiys' offerings is the software behind it and, as many have aregued here, the advertising.
So what I was saying is that companies see Apple produce a $600 tablet and say, "Hey, we can do that." So they make $600 of hardware and ship it to Best Buy and then wonder why it doesn't sell. Which is your point. What I was saying is that a company has to do every aspect of creating a tablet well-enough. They cannot just make the best hardware. If we say that Apple makes middling Hardware and software, and advertises reasonably well. Then a competitor cannot make amazing hardware and shit software with crappy advertising and expect to do better. They must do as well as Apple in all categories and better in at least one.
Anyway, I don't think that Apple's products and services are lock-in for the sake of keeping customers so much as a set of things that are worth more together than the sum of their individual parts(but let us not trot THAT word out).
Awkward to write a book on a tablet too. 'Real work' vs 'consuming content'. If you're a 'content maker' then you use a laptop or (hard-core) a desktop. If you just watch tv shows or read a book, then certainly a tablet is less awkward. I like to type fast on a real keyboard and not have to prop up my monitor/lcd screen.
Why is it that there are only TWO general use-cases that tablet-haters seem to recognize?
1. Writing War and Peace or the Linux Kernel from scratch.
2. Watching a movie or playing Angry Birds.
Nothing else seems to count. Why?
You DO realize, of course, that there are a whole bevy of use-cases for an information appliance like the iPad that don't fall into those two categories, e.g., Review and approval of documents, form-completion, correspondence review and creation, process monitoring/control, media creation and editing, etc.
Yes, you CAN do those with a laptop, but for some, the concept of an "electronic clipboard", that can be interacted with directly, rather than through the actions of mouse and keyboard, is an appealing one.
Hey, can you compute how much 30% of the $0 price of a free app is? Yet they allow free apps there.
Oh, and let us totally forget that Google charges the same 30% in the Android Marketplace. (nothing of which goes to the phone makers). Amazon lets you off with a 10% cut, but then they get to set the price.