Librarian Attacks Amazon's Kindle Lending Program

destinyland writes "A California librarian is urging librarians to complain to Amazon over issues with privacy and advertising in Amazon's new Kindle ebook lending program for libraries. 'In our greedy attempt to get content into our users' hands, we have failed to uphold the highest principle of our profession, which is intellectual freedom,' she argues in a 10-minute video. (Read the transcript here). Amazon keeps your history of reading library ebooks on their corporate servers, 'so it's an instant violation of all of our privacy policies. And we haven't told people that, and we need to tell people that.' And while many libraries have strict policies against endorsing a particular product, the check-out process concludes on Amazon.com with a pitch urging library patrons to purchase more Amazon books — and there's even book-buying plugs in their 'due date' reminders."

Comments

So do the libraries

[tomhudson]

Amazon keeps your history of reading library ebooks on their corporate servers

The libraries also keep a record of who has checked out what books. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to send you a notice saying you have overdue books.

They also are subject to FISA warrants (the "we can't tell you if your history has been subpoenaed") for your entire borrowing history.

Re:So do the libraries

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

There's a difference between a record of the books you currently have out and a record of the books you've ever checked out.

Re:So do the libraries

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to work for a company that makes library software and this is actually a very important issue in that field. While keeping a list of who has what is unavoidable, the librarians are very adamant that there should be no borrowing history stored. When you return the book they make a point to delete all records that show you ever had it.

Re:So do the libraries

[spopepro]

This is misleading. The library keeps records of what you currently have checked out. My public and school libraries do not keep a record of what I have checked out in the past. Your library may differ, but the ALA officially vigorously defends individuals right to intellectual freedom, and that includes not tracking reading history.

Re:So do the libraries

[Phiz]

Most libraries have privacy policies that state they delete the record of a book being checked out once it is returned. For example, you can find the policy for NYC public libraries here: http://www.nypl.org/help/about-nypl/legal-notices/privacy-policy. They even state that they backup their data, and the record of your returned book may exist for an additional 4 weeks in their rolling backup system. I love that they give you this level of detail into how they operate.

Re:So do the libraries

[Anonymous Coward]

libraries don't sell your data

Re:So do the libraries

[afidel]

Actually your library records are no longer covered, that part of the PATRIOT Act was not renewed. FISA only covers foreign agents. I know because the head librarian for the Medina County Library system has been one of the champions against COPA, the Patriot Act provision, and any other legislation which restricts the freedom of her patrons to freely read what they want without the government peering over their shoulder.

Re:So do the libraries

[geekoid]

Historically, the libraries make a stink about any search, and are sticklers for the law. Corporation are willing to give over any information the feds want with a phone call.

Re:So do the libraries

[geekoid]

Depends. Some libraries offer this service, but it's opt in.

Re:So do the libraries

[Monchanger]

Don't be stupid and don't spread stupid.

If your local library ignores the ALA, that's up to you to fix.

Re:So do the libraries

[tomhudson]

The libraries can be ordered under a FISA warrant to hand over your entire history. Not just the books you've checked out, but also all other media (dvds, periodicals), any search requests you made while logged into their system either locally or remotely, any library-hosted events you attended, and any and all other information they have on you ... all while being required to NOT tell you that they've handed over the info even if you ask.

Re:So do the libraries

[Joce640k]

So what's the FBI "Library Awareness Program" all about then?

Re:So do the libraries

[darnkitten]

Untrue. My public library has all the books I ever checked out. I have browsed my account online before it goes back years actually.

You should request that they remove the data.

You might also contact your legislature to request a bill to mandate patron privacy. In Montana, the library patron has a right to privacy, except in the matter of overdue books and bills. Libraries are also required by the state legislature to post a notice informing patrons of the danger of patron records being seized by Federal agents and that librarians would be unable to inform them (the patrons) of any seizure. Within months, the Montana Shared Catalog implemented a policy of erasing records after one month or the second checkout (In order to deal with damages found by inspection or reported by the next patron checking out an item).

Re:So do the libraries

[Monchanger]

It's not what you claimed was happening.
Nor is it current.
Nor was it library-endorsed.
And it certainly wasn't library-initiated.

So... what the hell are you talking about?

Re:So do the libraries

[sFurbo]

IIRC, exactly that rule made some libraries ditch their records about books returned. The librarians seem to be some of the staunchest protectors of civil liberties. They didn't want to turn over anything to the authorities, so they minimised the amount of information they had.

Re:So do the libraries

[tomhudson]

When the book is processed in, which still happens by an actual human being everywhere I am aware of, they are supposed to notice any damage and note it in the book's record along with the date and note in the patron's record that they returned a damaged book.

They're not going to notice that some smart-a** removed the last page, so you end up not knowing how the story ends (happened once) or that some other fundy librarian had sliced out pages in a reference work (you know, the books that don't get checked out) that happened to contain material threatening to their beliefs.

Censorship - some librarians do it too.

If you have returned the book, it will be on the shelf (or waiting to be processed). Most places have a form you fill out and someone will go look for that book. If they find it on the shelf, you obviously returned it.

If the book in question doesn't exist, no amount of searching will find it. It won't be checked out, it won't be sitting on a shelf. Libraries are bureaucracies, same as anywhere else.

Re:So amazon is supposed to just not make money?

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

Libraries pay for books. And Amazon gets advertisement just from having their products used, but doesn't necessarily have to say "Go buy our book!"

Although it does not seem inconsistent with library policies not to endorse, at least no more so than selling a regular book is, because regular books have advertisements by other books by the author, etc...--some older books [and magazines] even have order forms in them.

Librarians are touchy that way

[edremy]

I've discussed this with our campus library: they deliberately keep no records at all of book lending. I wanted them to look up my records for a specific book I'd borrowed in the past and couldn't remember the title of, and they couldn't help me get it that way. (We found it via other searches) Cornell's library has posted a set of disclosure notices which seem pretty much in touch with our library and others that I've asked about since

It might not be a bad idea for Amazon to work out a similar plan: simply destroy the record once the book is returned. They might have to burn some ad records as well though, since I'm sure they're offering the book for sale, and it would be easy to track that if they got subpoenaed. My guess is that is where Amazon would balk.

Re:Librarians are touchy that way

[_KiTA_]

They won't. To Amazon, your borrowing history is "product" that they can package and sell to advertisers and their own internal teams. It would be like asking them to burn money.

Re:Librarians are touchy that way

[Local ID10T]

So they dont know what books they have, which have been loaned out and to whom? Thats not a library, thats a "free book box".

They know what books they have. They know what books are currently on loan, and who has them. What they CHOOSE NOT TO KNOW is who had what book previously.

Re:Poor Libraries

[guyfawkes-11-5]

I think this librarian is just upset because he/she is realizing how irrelevant the idea of a library is anymore. Seriously, when was the last time any of you actually used a library?

This week. I never understood why they are not utilized even more than they are in these economic times. Your taxes have already paid for the books on the shelves, why buy another copy?

Re:Poor Libraries

[b0bby]

I use my library all the time. They have a decent web interface where I can order what I want to be put on hold for me, and they email me when it's in. When I stop by I usually see a couple of other good books as well. They also have ebooks available through Overdrive; they just added Kindle/mobi books, but I haven't checked any of them out so I don't know if the checkout process is any different. I don't think that the Overdrive process would send you to Amazon, but I may be wrong on that.

Re:Poor Libraries

[timeOday]

Libraries are great for families, even ones that aren't broke. Kids go through scads of books, I wouldn't want to keep them all.

Re:So amazon is supposed to just not make money?

[ackthpt]

Libraries pay for books. And Amazon gets advertisement just from having their products used, but doesn't necessarily have to say "Go buy our book!"

Although it does not seem inconsistent with library policies not to endorse, at least no more so than selling a regular book is, because regular books have advertisements by other books by the author, etc...--some older books [and magazines] even have order forms in them.

I tried to untangle that double negative phrase .. but anyway .. consider this: You own a bookstore. Your local library, which you fund through taxes, has advertisements for Amazon popping up all over. Pissed, yet?

Libraries, as public entities, should show no favoritism or grant preferential placement/access to resources influenced by a directly related private business.

If the local painter wants to give the library a reduced rate on redecorating for the placement of a placard indicating the fine (or shoddy) work was performed by Local Painter, that's one thing, as it does not directly affect access to books/periodicals.

If you have to have an Amazon account to checkout ebooks on a kindle, that's a barrier. If the books include advertising for Amazon and their offerings of books, that is also a barrier.

From a Librarian

[Ismene]

Hi - I think a lot of people here are focusing more on Librarian In Black's concern of the "Buy Now" buttons - when you should be concerned about your privacy. First, I get why she is annoyed by the "Buy Now" button. Libraries do not wish to "endorse" a particular service or product over another - and the "Buy Now" button gives the sense that "This Library supports Amazon" over another bookseller.

As for the privacy concerns, I've noticed a lot of comments on "Well, don't libraries give up those records with the PATRIOT act anyway?" When the PATRIOT act was enacted, libraries in the US scrambled to protect the rights of their users and the majority of them only have a record of who has what item out at that time - they do not have a record of what you returned.

And of course, there are lots who are saying "Libraries, bah - NOT RELEVANT." And I'm sure that is true for many of you; however, the library is more than books. Libraries provide a space for people to gather, they provide free internet to those who cannot afford it, they provide lessons on various computer programs, storytimes for children, etc. I am in an academic college library, and the majority of my students cannot afford their textbooks, let alone a computer for them to use. Please remember, you are probably viewing this article from your own computer - there are still a lot of people out there who don't have that luxury. Libraries help people with research, and despite what everyone thinks - not everything is found via Google. Perhaps Rush Limbaugh could have used a librarian / library when he made those horrible remarks about the LRA.

Re:Poor Libraries

[0123456]

Kids go through scads of books, I wouldn't want to keep them all.

I used to buy a lot of books, but then I had to pack them all into boxes to move across the Atlantic and realised that borrowing them made far more sense when it was something I wasn't likely to read multiple times.

Of course e-books make storage much less of a problem.

Re:Poor Libraries

[Oswald McWeany]

Until I got my kindle- I used the library all the time!

I use my kindle and download free books all the time (I use gutenburg instead of amazon- even if amazon has it for free).

The main problem with the library is that I don't always have time to read books- and frequently ran out of time to read a book- and renewing is such a hassle.

Whereas, reading the free books means I'm limited to older books- there are tonnes of older books I've always wanted to read that I never got around to... so I'm still reading books I always wanted to.

Re:Poor Libraries

[geekoid]

Almost every week.
My kids are avid readers, so during the summer they check out about 8 books a week.

It' also has a good movie selection, and a game selection. It has teen specific activities, literacy programs, ESL programs, public space for meetings... and a coffee shop. Sadly they won't let me check out coffee~

Libraries are very relevant. I suggest you look at the features of your local library.

Re:Poor Libraries

[bberens]

My daughter is 4 and she loves going to the library and picking out books to read. I occasionally get a library book myself but never off the shelf, I register online and they deliver it directly to my house. I can return it to any library in my county. They also have a wide selection of movies and television series that my wife occasionally checks out, yet another "aid" in the movement to ditch cable on top of Netflix and Hulu.

Re:So amazon is supposed to just not make money?

[sdguero]

Libraries lend DVDs that have advertisements for other movies etc on them. If I owned a blockbuster I'd be pissed about that too. Just playing devil's advocate...

Re:Poor Libraries

[edumacator]

Spoken like someone who doesn't understand that $10 a month is a lot of money for some people.