Slashdot Mirror


The Case For Piracy

An anonymous reader writes "A mainstream media outlet has published an article called 'The Case for Piracy. The writer shows how copyright has been hijacked by corporations and that publishers are their own worst enemies. 'One of the main reasons we all have anti-piracy slogans embedded in our brains is because the music industry chose to try and protect its existing market and revenue streams at all costs and marginalise and vilify those who didn't want to conform to the harsh new rules being set.' There's a lot in the article that Slashdot readers can relate to, and it's interesting that so many replies seem to agree with the author."

53 of 318 comments (clear)

  1. Change cannot be stopped by paulsnx2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The fundamental problem Strong Copyright has with piracy is that technology is going to *continue* to advance. This will make copying even easier in the future than it is now. Encryption and Peer to Peer networks are going to increase in power, and will be easier to use.

    The only way to maintain Strong Copyright is through government force. Increasingly it isn't about stopping people from doing "bad things" like "stealing" content. Instead it becomes a Government managed and controlled system for collecting income for a few favored parties.

    Strong Copyright is about protecting the public. It is about protecting the few at the top that can rake in the dough.

    1. Re:Change cannot be stopped by paulsnx2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      "Strong Copyright is *not* about protecting the public"

      sheesh.... No matter how hard I try to proof read, I still screw up! We need to be able to edit our own posts Slashdot!

    2. Re:Change cannot be stopped by TarMil · · Score: 2

      Talk about fallacy.

      The reason why people don't kill so much is not that it's hard. It's always been easy to kill someone when you want to.

      The reason why people don't kill so much is that it's against their morality. On the other hand, it's not against their morality to listen to music.

    3. Re:Change cannot be stopped by Moryath · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The secondary problem with "strong copyright" is that copyright has become disconnected from the lifetime of the medium on which the performance/art/work is rendered.

      Copyright is what now, 95 years for "work for hire" and life-of-author-plus-70 for independent? Compare that to the sales lifetime (or even TWICE the sales lifetime) of a standard video game console - a "decade lifetime" is pushing it. Atari 2600's and original NES units are considered antiques. Good luck even FINDING a working Vectrex.

      Hell, even for non-gaming - a while back Slashdot had a story about a guy who built a homebrew Cray-1 replica. His biggest problem? FINDING SOFTWARE TO TEST IT WITH. Nobody kept the discs around, and the few discs that are even findable today have succumbed to bit-rot.

      From that article:
      After searching the internet exhaustively, I contacted the Computer History Musuem and they didn’t have any either. They also informed me that apparently SGI destroyed Cray’s old software archives before spinning them off again in the late 90s. I filed a couple of FOIA requests with scary government agencies that also came up dry. I wound up e-mailing back and forth with a bunch of former Cray employees and also came up *mostly* dry. My current best hope is a guy I was able to track down that happened to own an 80 MB ‘disk pack’ from a Cray-1 Maintenance Control Unit (the Cray-1 was so complicated, it required a dedicated mini-computer just to boot it!), although it still remains to be seen if I’ll actually get a chance to try to recover it.

      Under current "copyright", his asking for software copies is technically a violation of copyright.

      "Copyright" has ceased to be what it originally was. The promise of copyright is that the protected creation is protected for a limited time, WHENCE IT SHALL ENTER THE PUBLIC DOMAIN AND BE AVAILABLE. Increasingly, copyright has instead become a fucking scam to promote forced obsolescence and premature death-of-product and prevent even historians from preserving the work for posterity.

    4. Re:Change cannot be stopped by ByOhTek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is about protecting the public, but not in the sense that the GP believes.

      It is about protecting the public by keeping an incentive for the produces of works of art, to keep producing. That incentive is financial compensation. It allows them to produce these works as a job, rather than in their free time, allowing them to produce more. This then provides more options for public consumption. There's arguments for some kind of patronage system - but what incentive do the patrons have - if it is a painting, something where the original can be easily determined and have a set value, something displayable on a wall for all to see, with appreciating value, then that is one thing. But with books, music and movies, that doesn't work so well. These patrons usually don't won't money by dumb luck, they have it because they want to make it - that means they are not going to pay thousands to millions of dollars for something that will give them a few hours of enjoyment, unless they can expect to get some financial compensation back - usually in excess of what they pay.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    5. Re:Change cannot be stopped by paulsnx2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, if you are not murdering people, those that don't die benefit. Mostly this is the public, as weapons are rarely trained on the rich and the wealthy that can afford to avoid dangerous situations and pay for protection. It is the common man that mostly gets mowed down. And if the government is preventing the sell of new weapons systems to people, then those at the top are getting punished.

      You are trying to tie the idea of the Government enforcing laws that protect the public with Strong Copyright which does not protect the public but just the favored few. Any amount of effort looking at the differences between copyright and weapons systems, and it is clear that your analogy totally breaks down. The right thing (control weapons to save lives) benefits the public and takes away from the profits of those at the top. The right thing (weaker copyright to grant more freedoms and less liability as people share and develop content) benefits the public and takes away from the profits of those at the top.

      In the case of copyright, "those at the top" are not the actual content producers by far and large. Copyright now extends 70 years AFTER the content producer is dead and buried. How is copyright about funding content producers if more than half its term is after the content producer is dead?

      Try again.

    6. Re:Change cannot be stopped by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Strong Copyright is NOT about protecting the public. It is about protecting the few at the top that can rake in the dough.

      No doubt about this, the truth is the public can't defend itself the money power because only a small portion of the population even understands the issues correctly to make any kind of sound decision regarding policy.

    7. Re:Change cannot be stopped by paulsnx2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Copyright extends 70 years after the Content Producer is dead and buried. If more than half the term is after they are dead, how is that an incentive for the producers of works of art to keep producing?

      Have you bought a new Cash album lately? Watched a new Hope movie? A new Carry Grant film?

      How about a new hit from the folks that brought you "Happy Birthday?" (I would have used their name, but we don't really know who wrote it, but Time Warner Music still gets 2 Million a year off its copyright anyway).

      I think there would be more incentive to produce if Content Providers had to compete with a larger body of free work. Their stuff would have to be better to sell, but hey! They could actually use "Happy Birthday" in their movie without paying Time Warner Music (That Great Content Producer!) 10 grand for the right to use a song written in the late 1800's.

    8. Re:Change cannot be stopped by paulsnx2 · · Score: 2

      ever! Just do like you just did. Make a subsequent post. Fixed comments are what keeps Slashdot ahead of the rest.

      Funny that you left the Subject alone. Ironic, no?

    9. Re:Change cannot be stopped by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You're making an argument AGAINST strong copyright. Strong copyright diminishes incentive to produce new work, and increases pressure on new writers due to retarded "you copied me" issues. Art has traditionally influenced other art, and one fundamental part of locking down copyright is to charge for anything that has been significantly influenced by your art.

    10. Re:Change cannot be stopped by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You don't need STRONG copyright for that. 10 years has that covered easily if you hold that notion to be true. Also, copyright is a weird holdover from medieval economics. Legal monopolies pretty much only make sense for utilities, and the economics of artistic works is the polar opposite.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    11. Re:Change cannot be stopped by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      However, as technology increases, the amount of time necessary to break today's encryption schemes will be reduced, thus making the need for stronger encryption schemes.

      A 256-bit secret key algorithm is already unbreakable through brute force by any means known; the problem is that encryption is useless for copy protection if you also have to give the recipient the key.

      You'd have to build a computer which was 'secure' from the ground up and wouldn't even boot an operating system which wasn't signed by a 'trusted' developer, which had DRM built into the core all the way through to the output device.

      Oh, wait...

    12. Re:Change cannot be stopped by Ja'Achan · · Score: 2

      "Strong Copyright is *not* about protecting the public"
      sheesh.... No matter how hard I try to proof read, I still screw up! We need to be able to edit our own posts Slashdot!

      Actually - they won't allow you to edit Slashdot posts in order to protect the public.

    13. Re:Change cannot be stopped by AngryDeuce · · Score: 5, Informative

      It is about protecting the public by keeping an incentive for the produces of works of art, to keep producing. That incentive is financial compensation.

      Funny, art was created for thousands of years before it was turned into a commodity. The common theme of "no one will create if they don't receive compensation for it!" is simply not true: Look at all the free software that is all over the web. Look at all the self-produced music all over Youtube. Look at all the self-produced artwork on DeviantArt. Look at all the self-produced novels being printed via Amazon.

      What we're seeing today is a bunch of huge corporations that wrested control of artistic works they didn't in themselves create and attempt to hold on to the rights to it forever, long after the death (and often against the wishes of) the person that actually created it. Piracy is helping destroy their monopoly on content dispersal through mainstreaming other methods of distribution.

      So yes, while we can all shed a tear for the millions of Metallica songs that were stolen via Napster (I guess), I think we're missing the greater benefits to society as a whole that came out of it. Not so good for Big Media, and not so good for the lucky few content creators they allow to become wealthy in order to attract more content creators they can suck up into the machine, but good for consumers.

      We've been making art since we first started scratching designs into rocks and painting on cave walls...and I am quite sure that the concept of paying for said art came much, much later.

    14. Re:Change cannot be stopped by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

      You are correct that there is a difference between force and duration, although I don't see a good argument for forceful copyright. The majority of the value for an author is in preventing commercial copying, which is something that would be present in the weakest copyright regimes. Strong copyright limits personal copying and derivative works. Harshly limiting those typically do little for authors, let alone the public. The fact that rightsholders often do stupid things when given power probably doesn't help much either.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    15. Re:Change cannot be stopped by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      The thousands of pieces of indie crap problem is solveable now. It's one of the few good things to come from social networking - word of mouth speads fast. Good artists will become well known, while the bad ones shall remain obscure. Like me.

    16. Re:Change cannot be stopped by paulsnx2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, the length of copyright is an incentive for the investors (I would say publishers/labels/studios/etc. ) to take ownership of the copyrights, and deny the creators compensation at all.

    17. Re:Change cannot be stopped by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      "Old archive material that had never been released before, and the projects he worked on in the years before his death. This is only feasible if the copyright on the works extends beyond the owner's death."

      So they _copied_ some old tracks and made money because he, being dead, cannot prevent them from doing so and they share the loot with his heirs?
      That's your rationalization for copyright laws?

      How about living, breathing artists getting some money instead of the heirs of a dead one?

    18. Re:Change cannot be stopped by Pieroxy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I didn't say that copyright wasn't broken. I said that piracy is not the solution.

      Nobody says piracy is the solution. People says that piracy is INEVITABLE. There is nothing anyone can do to prevent people from sharing information, save a completely totalitarian regime. In all other regimes, people will be able to freely communicate. Hence, they will be able to pirate digital media, which is nothing more than a collection of bits.

    19. Re:Change cannot be stopped by green1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why doesn't anyone dispute short term protection?

      For that vast majority of human history there was no such thing as copyright, or trademark, or patent, and the world did just fine.

      When Shakespeare wrote his plays you were free to watch a play, and then get your troupe of actors together and reproduce it exactly in another theatre with no legal ramifications.
      When Beethoven wrote his symphonies you could copy the sheet music and have your own orchestra play it.
      Think of all the art in any form that existed back then. Think of the inventions that happened despite a lack of any protections.

      Why shouldn't we dispute the whole concept of protection for imaginary property? Nobody has ever provided any proof that it provides a net societal benefit, but much damage to society is obvious in it's enforcement.

    20. Re:Change cannot be stopped by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is nothing the public could possibly have to gain from strong copyright. Balanced copyright I can see, but once the balance has been tipped towards "stronger", the public is the loser.

      A balanced copyright allows creators to actually create and live off their creation. Which is not only ok, it's pretty much mandatory in our time and age where (aside of music) most content is a matter of investment. Computer programs and movies are a matter of spending a lot of dough in their creation. If that money cannot be recovered, they will not be produced. Don't quote me the "love for art" or similar things. They will produce a few Blair Witch Projects and Worlds of Goo, or other low budget movies and games, but as we all know the majority of good, quality movies and games comes from a lot of people spending a lot of time doing a lot of work they don't really do for the "love of it". For the "love of it", you'll get what the programmer or the movie director wants to do. Which is surprisingly rarely what the customer actually wants to see or play.

      But copyright went overboard, we're at the point where it's no longer just to recover the money spent. Copyright is about control today, more than ever before. How many movies, how many games are simply gone because whoever created them doesn't want to sell them to you? How many ideas, characters and plots cannot be brought back to life because those that had an idea to use them are not allowed to use them, and who may doesn't want to for whatever reason?

      This is where copyright failed, and where it hurts the public. Balanced copyright means more content. Stronger copyright leads to less in the long run.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re:Change cannot be stopped by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      http://www.baen.com/library/

      1. Online piracy — while it is definitely illegal and immoral — is, as a practical problem, nothing more than (at most) a nuisance. We're talking brats stealing chewing gum, here, not the Barbary Pirates.

      2. Losses any author suffers from piracy are almost certainly offset by the additional publicity which, in practice, any kind of free copies of a book usually engender. Whatever the moral difference, which certainly exists, the practical effect of online piracy is no different from that of any existing method by which readers may obtain books for free or at reduced cost: public libraries, friends borrowing and loaning each other books, used book stores, promotional copies, etc.

      3. Any cure which relies on tighter regulation of the market — especially the kind of extreme measures being advocated by some people — is far worse than the disease. As a widespread phenomenon rather than a nuisance, piracy occurs when artificial restrictions in the market jack up prices beyond what people think are reasonable. The "regulation-enforcement-more regulation" strategy is a bottomless pit which continually recreates (on a larger scale) the problem it supposedly solves. And that commercial effect is often compounded by the more general damage done to social and political freedom.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    22. Re:Change cannot be stopped by Tanktalus · · Score: 2

      I don't think anyone argues that copyright should be "cut off" at the creator's death. Merely that it should be a static number of years, period. (We don't want someone killing Britney Spears just to get her latest hit put in the public domain. At least, not for that reason.) I could also handle a copyright that started at time of first publishing (as "trade secret" laws would likely handle the before-publication part), which would still give those who owned the new Cash albums a reasonable time to generate profit from the creation.

    23. Re:Change cannot be stopped by ByOhTek · · Score: 2

      The later one should be 'who receive' rather than 'who pirate'

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    24. Re:Change cannot be stopped by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      We can draw a direct example from history from one of the biggest proponents of copyright in 19th century: Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain).

      To avoid copyright expiration he would often create various things that added to value of his work, such as sequels, and then sell the package once original works' copyright expired. Back then, short and weak copyright did exactly what it was designed to do - give author incentive to create more work.

    25. Re:Change cannot be stopped by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

      Allowing corporations to make use of 10 year old code as public domain would spur adoption of innovative ideas, which bolsters progress, and diminishes stagnation.

      Currently, with the rapid evolution permitted (and enforced) by the gpl, many radical ideas come to light. Does it matter to the consumer if one agent or another invests in that public good? (This is naturally only true when things remain unencumbered by patents.)

      The idea that gpl was created to be a sacred cow is wrong headed. Gpl was created as a hack, to permit and protect the free sharing ideology that is idealized by a healthy and robust public domain. It is a hack to prevent a tradgedy of the commons.

    26. Re:Change cannot be stopped by Requiem18th · · Score: 2

      Actually there is a connection between slashdot not allowing you to edit your comments and strong copyright protections.

      The issue is sacrifice.

      You can't really allow people to make minor corrections to their post without opening the chance that the comments will change meaning, which will make the discussion none sense since comments will me replying to words that no longer exist. To protect the conversation, you have to set it in stone, posts with mistakes are the sacrifice we make to achieve a consistent conversation.

      In the same vein, to protect constantly increasing copyrights we have to make a lot of sacrifices, loss of privacy, loss of self determination, overreaching government surveillance and disproportional punishments.

      The case to be made is that the sacrifice is not worth it.and the fruit is spoiled, we don't need "life of author+70 years" to protect innovation, and we don't need big brother to ensure profits.

      I'd say some piracy is acceptable price for civil liberties, and sane copyright terms would go a long way to ensure copyright infringement goes down.

      --
      But... the future refused to change.
    27. Re:Change cannot be stopped by kdemetter · · Score: 2

      An idea :

      Release your book chapter by chapter on your website, and put up a donation button.
      Put up a counter : after a target donation sum has been reached, release the next chapter.

      If the book is good enough, you can be sure people will want to see the next chapters, so they will pay for it.
      Afterwards, the book is available for free ( but those who want that need to wait longer ).

    28. Re:Change cannot be stopped by paulsnx2 · · Score: 2

      Funny you should mention buying a $40 TV season.

      I pay about 60 dollars a month for cable, which provides said TV seasons. They have a DVR feature. Just the other day, that featured failed to record the 2nd episode of House for me. Instead it recorded some lame strange show that I can't recognize.

      I can't go to AT&T and get my 2nd episode. Maybe I can watch it on Hulu or something. But why bother? Say I download the thing. And now I am a pirate?

      At the end of the year, I have paid 60x12 or 720 dollars into the system. Do I have any of these "seasons" of TV? No. The stupid DVR can hold about 20 or 30 shows. Period. I have watched some T.V. here and there (not much because I work too much), and I got nothing to show for it. Over 20 years this is like $14,000 spent and gone blowing in the wind.

      There are good reasons to cut the cable, and buy maybe an outstanding show on DVD every now and then. Watch a bit of video over the Internet. But increasingly there is no way cable justifies its costs.

      You are going to claim they have to have that money from that DVD or Blu-Ray to make money? They are gouging today, and if they made their product legitimately priced for people, they could sell it. Piracy only occurs where the business has failed to make their product available for a reasonable price under a reasonable distribution agreement.

      It is like the starving folk hunting the "King's Deer." Yeah, some idiots are going to go and take what they shouldn't take regardless. But where everyone as reasonable access to food and hunting and protection, the people (mostly) leave the King's Deer alone. Jack up the price of food, kill them with fees and taxes, and people go and hunt the King's Deer.

      Piracy is quite usefully the canary in the coal mind, indicating where businesses are gouging and not providing product at the price that makes sense in the market.

    29. Re:Change cannot be stopped by jc42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How many people do you know that go out and by movies 40 years old? 20 years old? 10 years old? less than 5 years old? How about movies? This still holds fairly well for music, ...

      Huh? You must know a very different crowd of musicians than I do. There is a lively market for music over a century old. There are a lot of publishers still profiting from selling the music of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, etc., although everything they wrote is long out of copyright.

      Just last night, I played for a Simchat Torah service, and we played a number of tunes that are known to be over 100 years old. The audience loved it. We also did some songs that were newer, 10 or 30 years old, and the audience sang along. A couple of days earlier, I played at a local contra dance, where we also played tunes that were several centuries old. Several were published by Playford, back in the 17th century. The dance crowd gave us lots of compliments for our music, although none of it was "new" by the recording industry's standards.

      There is a serious copyright problem that is starting to hit the "old music" part of the market, though. Publishers have developed the idea that, although a tune may be public domain, their published version of it is copyrighted -- and if you play exactly the notes they published, you have violated their copyright (even if you've never seen their publication). I know a number of people who consciously refuse to play exactly the same tune that's in any of their tune books, as a result. This sorta causes problems when people are trying to play together. And it doesn't actually protect you from the threat of a lawsuit, because you can't have all the published versions in your head, or if you do, it's hard to avoid accidentally duplicating one of them occasionally.

      It used to be that "copyright" existed to prevent one publisher from copying and republishing another publisher's work. Now, it's used to prevent musicians from performing music that has been published. This is a serious perversion of the original concept of copyright. In the long run, it could kill much of the publishers' market for printed music. In particular, many original editions are now available online, mostly free in academic archives. If you learn music from them, you will probably be safe from prosecution. I have a PDF of an out-of-copyright work from the 1820s on my screen right now, and I'm prepared to present it in court if any publisher sues me for copyright infringement when I perform any of the music. And I'll probably file a countersuit if they do. A lawyer friend has assured me that claiming copyright on an 1820s original manuscript is a clearcut case of consumer fraud that he'd enjoy fighting. So far, experience is that when you mention this, publishers tend to quickly back off, but you never know when they'll decide to push it.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  2. To be fair by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Copyright is good. Linux uses it, news sources use it, our society practically requires it to function properly. Good copyright, that is, copyright that promotes the progress of science and the useful arts. Not the life+70 (or whatever the hell it is now, I can't even keep track) bullshit we have now. That? That hinders science and progress and promotes stagnation. That's all that does. Piracy? Well, it's a counter-active force to a broken system, which is itself broken conceptually. It is a practical, if unfortunate, necessity.

    To all media companies out there: give us what we want (not broken with DRM) and when we want it (not 9 months to 3 years later), and you'll see piracy decline significantly. Oh, and make new innovative product rather than coasting off the work of an earlier genius (Disney, that comment is directed precisely at you.)

    I suppose this is too much to ask. So, then, is paying for the same old recycled crap the media produces. So, people won't.

    --
    "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    1. Re:To be fair by RogerWilco · · Score: 2

      >

      To all media companies out there: give us what we want (not broken with DRM) and when we want it (not 9 months to 3 years later), and you'll see piracy decline significantly.

      I think you missed one. I would phrase it like this: Give us what we want, when we want it, and where we want it.

      The last one is important too, I basically mean format shifting should be allowed and trivial. I have no use for the latest DVD on my smartphone.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
    2. Re:To be fair by QuasiSteve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Give us what we want, when we want it, and where we want it.

      Okay...
      what - Everything!
      when - Now!
      where - Everywhere!

      Very well. That will be $15/movie, $2.50/episode of a series and $1.99/song, you can log into our media portal and pay via credit card and paypal.

      Not acceptable, right?

      That's because you forgot two...
      price - Preferably free, but we're not unreasonable pirates - $2.50 for a movie, $0.50/episode of a series and $0.02/song (think of it as promotion, we'll be more likely to go see live concerts and buy merchandise - honest!)
      how - Nothing against portals, but we're not too keen on you lot having all of our data and you'd just be doing it wrong anyway by trying to shove crap at us instead of the content we want. So instead, allow anonymous public downloads from an open searchable system (interfacing with imdb and the like would be grand, thanks) and use payment processors to allow anonymous payments for the service. Yes, that does sound like an honor system - why do you ask? Do we not seem like honorable pirates?

    3. Re:To be fair by Antisyzygy · · Score: 2

      2.50 for a movie? .50 an episode? 0.02 a song? Do you have any idea how many songs you would have to sell to make a living as a musician at that rate especially with people gouging your music sales? Assuming you make all the profits from your songs, you would need to sell :

      40,000 dollars per year / 0.02 dollars per song = 2,000,000 songs / year

      That seems ridiculous to me. A dollar a song is plenty cheap, and albums usually are packaged cheaper. I can see maybe .50 for an episode since most TV shows have a large audience, but even then maybe up to about 2.50 for an episode. Then, movies should be priced at some fraction of a movie ticket up to 1:1.

      --
      That brings me to an interesting point, / . is just "the ramblings of socially-inept, technology-literate news-mongers".
    4. Re:To be fair by richlv · · Score: 2

      (think of it as promotion, we'll be more likely to go see live concerts and buy merchandise - honest!)

      i've bought band t-shirts and other merchandise of bands that i found out about from downloaded material. next monday i'm seeing a gig of two bands that i discovered the same way. i even bought a cd from one of them in the last concert - not because i couldn't get it otherwise, that would be trivial - but because they're kinda cool (i didn't even like that one as much as the older ones, but i already had those :) )

      is the total amount huge ? oh, surely not. but, no offence, piss off :)
      we like music, we go to concerts, we buy t-shirts. but when we listen to music at our homes, we don't feel a huge urge to pass off some money for that. and yes, the parasites who get levy on blank media should actually be shot.

      --
      Rich
  3. Re:Music by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Not me. The only time I will ever buy music is from the band itself at a show, or directly from the band online. Or unless I know that the publisher has absolutely no ties to the RIAA or any RIAA-related entity, which is pretty hard to determine. Anything that comes out on an RIAA-related label I will download illegally, in hopes that artists will eventually stop signing to those bloodsuckers. Yes, it hurts for the artists, I make no illusions about that, but when you make a deal with the devil you must accept the consequences... Stop signing with RIAA labels and you will get my money.

  4. I am no Pirate! by paulsnx2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't download music, I don't torrent music, I don't P2P music.

    I am a model citizen.

    More about me:

    * I am over 50
    * I have bought maybe 10 Albums/Cassettes/8-Tracks/Digital Downloads in my *Entire* life.

    Wouldn't the music industry love having an entire market of folks just like me!

  5. New Rules by should_be_linear · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Internet restored old rule: You can make money as an artist IF you are willing to perform your art in LIVE and there is audience willing to pay for it. There was brief window in history, like 100 years, where this rule was changed in a strange way: it was enough to perform ONCE, make recording of it, and then sell recordings instead of performances. This model could work only when sharing of data was difficult. That model is going away, with or without crying loud or imposing (never quite working) copyright walls. It is really bad for films, for example, you cannot perform it live. But, cinemas and broadcasters are giving lots of money to film industry for broadcasting rights. They will only loose "DVD money". I think think they will survive just fine.

    --
    839*929
  6. buh? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    'One of the main reasons we all have anti-piracy slogans embedded in our brains is because the music industry chose to try and protect its existing market and revenue streams at all costs and marginalise and vilify those who didn't want to conform to the harsh new rules being set.'

    Is there anyone out there who doesn't associate anti-piracy slogans with hilarity? Don't copy that floppy!

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  7. Just stop consuming by ledow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can't get the programme you want, the music you want, the film you want, the software you want? Can't get it in the right format, the right quality, without DRM?

    Then DON'T buy it. Don't consume it. If the producers of Lost want to play those sorts of games (and they are hardly innocent here - they sign the deals that say who can distribute their product how), then stop watching the damn thing. The reason these companies continue is that people STILL buy that crap and still desire product from people that are crapping on them. Don't be one of them.

    Personally, when something comes up like that, I not only don't BUY it, but I do everything in my power to stop requiring it too, including seeking out alternatives that are completely legal and legitimate.

    I've witnessed businesses go from MS Office to LibreOffice for just that reason - you cannot get what you want, for a price you want to pay, and use it the way you want, so you go elsewhere even if it's an inconvenience. Some people would turn to piracy but as a business you can turn to other, more enticing, offers like free Office suites that have MOST or ALL of the functionality you require.

    The problem I have with piracy is that most of it is unnecessary. There's possibly an argument that some third-world country can't afford first-world licensing and so pirates to make their businesses operate. But TV, DVD, Blu-Ray, iPod's, etc. are luxury items. They are NOT necessary. That's what gets my goat about piracy - you're only ripping off stuff that you don't actually NEED (like the people I've seen who download EVERY episode of EVERYTHING "just in case" they get around to watching it at some point, and then rarely watch 10% of the stuff they've downloaded).

    If you NEED it, you'll do whatever you need to do.
    If you only WANT it, then pay for it.
    If you can't pay for it, but still want it, find something else to want.

  8. Re:Much to do about nothing by geminidomino · · Score: 2

    It's like kids these days don't listem to music from their own era.

    Who can blame them?

  9. The digital problem. by jellomizer · · Score: 2

    Digital data is unique as it can be copied over and over again without loosing anything. It can be done for cheap and any individual can do it.

    Old media Each copy degrades per copy. And making the media was expensive.

    This is the problem.

    Copyright law is based on the old media. So those large fines for violations were fair laws. Because if you were to say pirate 10,000 records, or 100,000 books at a near production quality. Then you have already have invested a substantial money to do this, with the idea of making more money from it. So if you get caught then you probably already have a lot of wealth acquired illegally.

    Now that violating the law is much too easy, now the fines are hurting the "innocent" people who's crime is closer to sneaking into a movie theater without a ticket. Even if they have hundreds of thousands of illegal material, and shared it millions of time.

    The root cause of the piracy like any black market activity is the fact there is demand for a product that is priced too high, or is treated in a way people do not want. Or they legally cannot get it otherwise. To lower piracy Media companies need to expand their internet usage of their media (That is what people want), Make it affordable (Now that you have greatly increased your supply capacities as you are sharing data not physical stuff), and make sure people who want it can get it.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  10. Different market, lower prices by captainpanic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My parents had maybe 100-200 albums, and paid a certain percentage of their income for music.
    I have 1000-2000 albums, but I certainly am not going to pay 10 times as much as my parents (if only because logically I listen to them 10 times less on average, and because I have only some Mb of harddisk space, rather than a fancy disk in a nice cover on a real shelf).

    The music industry just have to get to grips that prices have to drop dramatically for people to stop downloading. I cannot afford to buy music now.

  11. Confused about who the customer is by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Contempt for customers

    He then goes on to demonstrate several instances of where the local TV stations screwed the audience.

    You are not TV's customers. You are the product being sold to the advertisers.

    One Time Warner exec when so far as to say that people who TiVo shows and fast forward through the commercials are thieves. (As well as people who switch channels, or use the euphemism during a break)

    If TV exec's could Ludovico you, they would.

    --
    All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
  12. See sig by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

    My new sig is relevant.

    (copied to body for future reading: http://www.wired.com/underwire/2011/10/alt-text-ultraviolet/)

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  13. Re:What about the creators? by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's hard to argue with supply and demand. Once created, the supply of your work is infinite, it is effectively 0 cost to make another copy. Having an unlimited supply is going to drive prices down to near zero as a matter of course. Rather than asking 'why' you shouldn't be paid, you should be asking 'how'.

    You can try to artificially restrict your supply with DRM but that pisses off your customers. You can try to litigate, in which case you aren't really selling your works, you're selling a no sue guarantee, and also pisses off your customers (especially since if you sue enough people you will eventually catch an innocent person in your net).

    Or you can accept that some X% of your users are going to pirate, and you can charge the rest enough to make your money. Some anecdotal evidence even suggests that properly managed piracy can increase sales, so actively go out and use the pirates as a free advertising agency. More radically, you can put your old works out in public domain, and make a preorder for your next work available, basically a modern day, crowd sourced patronage model. I can think of at least one author who has managed that effectively (Charles Stross). Or you can publish your works to your blog and get some extra money from advertising. Or, if your product is software, you can give it away for individuals but require payment from businesses (who are less likely to pirate given the higher risks they face).

  14. Wasn't there another story... by sohmc · · Score: 2

    ...that summarized that the reason MPAA and RIAA get their panties in a bunch is because they no longer control the market? They've always controlled distribution, sales, etc. Now, artists have less and less of a need to have a publisher since they can publish directly to itunes, amazon, etc. leaving the companies in the analog dust.

    My issue with legit copies is that there is sometimes so much protection and so much annoyances (e.g. FORCING me to watch an ad on a DVD) that it's almost easier and more convenient to pirate.

    --
    We don't live in Shouldland.
  15. It's not about Copyright, it's about control... by super-papa · · Score: 2

    So you want to hear music, what would you like to listen? Good music that isn't owned by RIAA? Goodnes gracious, no! Listen to the latest boxed artificially flavored crap from Britney Mandy Simpson. Or whatever. Or listen to the rebellious millionaires who sing about being depressed.

    What! There's a way for people to access music we can't sell them and don't want to re-release? NUKE IT FROM ORBIT!

    It was never about copyright, it was always about control. If the album you want to listen is not on the record stores, it's on purpose because it has ceased to make revenue to the "publishers" ( forget about the 1% they give to the artist). If you happen to have it in your HDD, and you share it with people, it's not costing them sales money, it's costing them brain space in you. If you make your musical taste on your own, without the bombardment of the coporations, radios, TV, movies, etc, YOU ARE DEPRIVING THEM OF THEIR FUTURE REVENUE.

    Old music is what people will always listen and remember, and are willing to pay for. It's better if they can only get it for free. How many albums have The Beatles sold between 1960-1970, and how many after that? I'm betting more after and will keep rising, quality never rots. But how many albums will B.M.S. sell in 5 to 10 years? Obviously, not counting the OD or DUI death or whatever.

    The Corporations want to control what you can consume. So they are limiting your access to it.

  16. The Public Domain by CanEHdian · · Score: 2

    It's a well-written article, and touches a couple of excellent points on necessary changes in Big Contents' business models, but one issue remains only lightly touched on by way of a link to Mickey Mouse Copyright Term Extension Act: excessive copyright terms, with no further explanation what this actually means for the average user. The Public Domain going mainstream is what Big Content is afraid of more than piracy.

    The 33 rpm vinyl recording was introduced shortly after World War II ended; as you can imagine the sheer number of albums released on that format worldwide is incalculable. How many of those have fallen into the public domain by now, almost 30 years after the introduction of its intended successor, the compact disc? How many 78 rpm records, quickly abandoned after the introduction of the LP, are actually still under copyright today?

    Do you have any idea how much music, literature, sound recordings, etc. would be freely available, freely available again after decades of being unavailable, and available for remixing/re-interpretation/whatever else creative you can do with it? Granted, this wouldn't make any difference for those that run after current trends only (Gaga, Bieber), but it still would enrich the lives of many that actually enjoy exploring.

    --
    When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
  17. Re:Music by DrgnDancer · · Score: 2

    If you've got any contact with the bands ( and for bands with small fan bases this is common) tell them to get themselves there. It's really, really easy, essentially free (30% cut from sales, but honestly that's not a lot more than materials to make a CD yourself, certainly less than even a good indie label would take) and has the double advantage of allowing fans to get paid for copies of their music, and putting them in the genre search lists... Possibly bringing new fans. I'm service agnostic, they should do this with all the big services.

    I'm friends with a few musicians, the guy I mention in my example is an extreme case, but even people like my friend Beth (Celtic/alt rock fusion) make as much off iTunes these days as they do off CD sales.

    --
    I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
  18. Re:Hi Jack by green1 · · Score: 2

    Difficulty in enforcement is not a good reason, however what is the point to a law in the first place (any law). The point is to provide a benefit to society as a whole.
    We shouldn't pass any law that we don't think will make society a better place in general.
    Now it quickly becomes apparent why we don't want people running around killing people, it harms society by removing portion of it completely, it causes everyone to live in perpetual fear that they may be next.
    On the flip side let's look at copyright, this is a very modern invention that didn't even exist a few centuries ago, and yet society flourished. People invented and created a lot of stuff before any form of copyright existed. And what happens when someone copies something? The original creator is not deprived of it. The new person now has a copy, if anything you have INCREASED the wealth of society by spreading around the creation to allow more people to enjoy it.

    So while all of society benefits from a ban on random murder. Only an elite few have any potential to gain anything from copyright, and those few have shown throughout the centuries that they do just fine without such protection.

    One might also look at what society as a whole wants. If something becomes the societal norm, is it still a good idea to prohibit it? If one were to believe the copyright infringement figures thrown around by the entertainment industry it quickly becomes obvious that an extremely large percentage of people must, to some extent, engage in unauthorized copying. This speaks to the idea that this is something that society approves of, and thinks is beneficial. Surely their own numbers prove that more people are in favour of being permitted to copy whatever they want than are in favour of protecting those same works. Should not the government take that in to account when writing laws? Something that society as a whole wants to happen is probably something that governments should be considering implementing!

  19. Their own worst enemy by RandomStr · · Score: 2

    I find it hard to be sorry for the music companies; They produce "by the numbers" music, and rip off next to all genuine artists, by calming that the cost of production through distribution is 99.9% of earnings... Akin the the movie industry claiming that a recent Harry Potter film didn't make profit...
    But I don't support piracy either, artists need to eat, and diverse to profit from their work too...

    It's not just digital downloads that have changed the music industry, i.e. distribution; an album can be recorded "at home", if ya know what your doing. So if the cost of production and distribution are not prohibitive factors, so how dose the industry justify the "mark-up"?

    Radio you say. Yes the network to promote the music is "buttoned up tight", and the relationships go way back, so penetration is still an issue, though it shouldn't be...


    Materialism vs. Virtual downloads: When I was a kid, there where these things called cassettes, you could even copy music on to them, but it was never as good as getting the whole package, album art, song lyrics, etc. Paying for a digital download still don't feel as "good value" as having the product sitting on my shelf.
    If you buy an album these days, your lucky if you get more than a single sheet of paper, badly printed, and I cant remember the last time I saw lyrics...

    So I pose the question; Has the reduction of the physical product made it easer to see value in the digital download, or has it blurred the line between a copy and the real product?

    I see digital download(low profit) as eating in to physical record sales(higher profit), rather than offsetting the piracy numbers, so why dose the industry fixate on a non-markets rather than retaining(premium) paying customers?

    PS. I've read statements recently that movie studios are becoming "more concerned about loosing distribution than the issue of piracy", very strong words...

  20. Re:Cornish smuggling by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Control is an important factor in the game. Money is actually secondary, or rather, to make money with content, you first of all need total control over it. There are companies, big, "important" companies, that have virtually no assets aside of content rights. If these rights would cease to exist over time, these companies would lose their right to exist. And while I'd consider this pretty much a given thing and the way things should be (since, well, if all you do is sit on content and don't produce anything or create anything for the benefit of the population, your company is essentially useless for the population and economy and SHOULD perish), control over content is what keeps them afloat. Losing that control would instantly mean they lose their revenue base.

    Money comes secondary here, because without control, the whole market model is not sustainable.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.