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Ask Slashdot: How To Enter Private Space Industry As an Engineer?
First time accepted submitter CtownNighrider writes "I'm in my senior year of high school currently in a selective program for future engineers. I have always been a good student and feel like I can get into most good schools (MIT is a long shot but RPI isn't). I plan on studying aerospace engineering (most likely getting a dual major with mechanical) in college and working for a company like SpaceX once I graduate. I would love any advice anyone can offer for my college search or being an engineer in general. I live in upstate NY and don't want to travel super far, I'm thinking about a 5 hour radius. I have the RPI medal so it's one of my top choices and MIT is my long shot but I'm having a tough time figuring out what schools are worth applying too. Academics come first hands down so male/female ratio and party scene aren't too important."
Interview and get a co-operative engineer position at any space-related engineering firm. Sounds like your credentials could get you an interview. Can't be beat to get a leg up on that type of career; it worked for me...
Don't feel like you have to go to a hard-core engineering school. Go to the best state school in your area, the undergraduate curriculum is not much different from a really well regarded school like MIT. It will be cheaper and you will likely have a better social life.
Recognize that with fancy schools you are paying for the prestige, the education is not much different. I went to a top five engineering school, most of my classes were giant lectures that would have been exactly the same at any state school. (the state school is often even better if they have good professors rather than uber-researchers who suck at teaching) If you really want prestige go to the best graduate program you can get into after you graduate. For good engineering students this is typically free and the high prestige schools actually are better at that level.
You say you do not care about the quality of your social life now, but believe me, after 4 years of hardcore engineering school you will. Nearly everyone who makes this decision does
If you want to be an engineer, you had better learn how to start solving your own problems, or answering questions like the one you posed, by yourself. That's my best advice for getting into your chosen field.
Crap. Asking questions is good. Building on the experience of others is great. Be ready to challenge the wisdom of others but don't refuse every source of existing information.
That's good advice. But if you start out with the idea that you want to get a very specialized job in a microscopic startup industry but don't want to travel more than a few hours from your location, the chances of success are negligible in any case.
This is bad advice. Successful engineers spend lots of time asking questions and soliciting advice.
It sounds like you're on the right path... aerospace with dual major in mechanical.
You have some time though, so I'd suggest you get a hobby in the field you're going into. Help out some open source rocketry projects. Surely they exist. Launch some things up really high. Rig up some cameras and get pictures. Write some code. etc. etc.
One day someone is going to be looking at your resume. If it's one in a thousand, you probably won't get noticed. Hopefully they'll be looking at it because Bob down in the lab says he knows this one guy who really kicked ass on this one project. Hopefully you'll already know the guy through the right circles. Hopefully they'll look you up on the web and see that you have your hand in the right projects, that you do good work, and that you love what you do.
Also, it would be good to actually do the work you're seeking to go into. It'll tell you if you're on the right path for YOU.
The secret to Industry is that you don't get promoted to do work .... You get promoted and paid when it's noticed that you're ALREADY doing the work and oh, perhaps they should pay you for that....
The USA is in a long term serious decline for anything to do with science and engineering. These fields are moving to places like China which put a larger value on education. You'd be well advised to consider moving overseas, because the trend is clear: less and less of this kind of work happens in the United States. The aerospace industry here has been gutted since the 1960's. It still exists to some extent, but not nearly like it used to, and it's declining all the time.
You go to fancy schools because many of the students with whom you get drunk there are tomorrow's industry leaders. They are good people to know, because they will be able to provide you with employment opportunities that you simply can't get by sending off resumes.
In the end, you'd be demonstrating your love for the subject in a very visible way. Most resume submitters never ever do this.
I know lots of successful engineers. I are one.
We were all blowing things up when we were your age.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Don't limit you options based on the geographical factor. If the male/female ratio and the party scene are not important, then the location shouldn't be either.
I am an Aerospace Engineering/Mathematics Grad Student at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. I do more theoretical work now, but I think I can offer a little advice.
If you want to stay state side I would also recommend (in no particular order) you look at U of M, Purdue, Georgia Tech, Cornell (Aero/Mech), Caltech, Stanford (Aero/Mech) and the University of Maryland (more aeronautical).
The biggest thing is to get involved with research projects. Look at current professors and their research interests, see if they have anything related to satellite/rocket design. Do not be afraid to ask/e-mail. Professors and grad students alike love getting undergrads involved, perhaps because they usually come free.
If you do look at Michigan I can recommend looking at Professor Cutler and his RAX project or professors in the Atmospheric, Oceanic and Space Sciences (AOSS) department. Several people from my graduating class who took Aerosp 483 went on to SpaceX, Virgin Galactic and Bigelow Aerospace, so there is a network.
For more U of M information look at:
Professor Cutler: http://aerospace.engin.umich.edu/people/faculty/cutler/
RAX: http://rax.engin.umich.edu/
AOSS: http://aoss.engin.umich.edu/
GO BLUE!
Once you've nailed the academics at a state undergrad level and proven yourself (with less cost), then hit up the larger research universities like MIT. You'll have more track record on your academic resume, and you'll have tons of contacts from your undergrad years to help you get in.
Transferring into a top tier University with less debt is not a bad way to go, if you're willing to do undergrad work at a state level. The majority of undergrad studies - Physics, Calculus, etc. are all pretty much universal whether at the state or Ivy league schools.
It's when you get to the higher levels that your dollars will be well spent at a specialty school.
I suggest some military (self?) education, because its a fairly effective way to analyze long term campaigns...
So... your goal... what intel do you have about the goal? When you asked SpaceX what did they say? When you talked to the engineers there, and especially the engineering department management, what did THEY suggest? Tell them the truth and HR will filter / blow you off. Tell them you need to interview an engineering dept manager for a school report, you Might make it thru the filter. Get all 007 on this if necessary. Unless they're here on /. with us, which is possible, I'm not thinking your intel from /. will be worth much.
Next check out the opfor, that being all the other applicants at SpaceX, what is your edge? Teachers naturally try to convince their students the most important techniques for success are being a follower and getting high grades, and many/most kids are stary eyed enough to believe them, the fools. I'm not 100% certain that is remotely relevant. I'm guessing that if SpaceX gets 1000 qualified applicants per position, if you are in fact the #1 GPA in the nation that might help, otherwise you need another strategy... join the model rocket club that the hiring manager is a member of? Something like that?
Finally check out yourself. Very few people pick a career at age 17 and stick with it.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
MIT isn't the answer, CalTech is. JPL is managed by CalTech and there is some crossover and plenty of educational opportunities there. Also, since SpaceX is based in southern California, being there helps. Aerospace is very strong in SoCal.
Also, SpaceX hires a lot from companies like Boeing, Northrop, etc(all of my friends that work there are from said companies). In order to get in as an engineer at those companies(to use as a stepping stone), you generally need your security clearance or military experience. The military is always looking for engineer graduates, and you'll be able to pay down your loans as well. With a degree, you'll go in as an officer as well generally.
So you never asked a single question in your entire career?
Job skills are secondary to 'soft skills' (networking, interpersonal, manipulation) in terms of getting you where you want to go. The people at the 'top' of their fields are almost always talkers rather than doers. If you want to be the guy who actually invents something, you probably want the absolute best training you can get, push hard for MIT. If you're not going to be able to get that, you won't be able to compete with the guy who does, so you may as well go down the other path, and get credit and patent for his inventions by being a direction setter.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
I'm an aerospace engineering student, nearly done with my undergrad career at Cal Poly Pomona, and I've also done research during two summers at Caltech.
I know people that have attended several of the more prestigious schools and notice that the level of education you receive is almost entirely up to you. If you have the drive to learn, the school you choose is secondary. I will say that the difference between Caltech and a school like Cal Poly Pomona is that the students are much more enthusiastic about learning theory as opposed to simply knowing enough to get a project done.
I think the best thing you can do is actually visit the campus during the school year if possible and attend some of the seminars or group meetings in your field of interest. It will give you a feel for the kinds of students that the university attracts or the types of problems they like to tackle.
Another thing to look for, and ask current students of those universities, is how difficult/easy it is to get funding and school resources for engineering projects and competitions.
Lastly, I now have a math minor and find it much more valuable to have more mathematics (advanced D.E.s, tensors, numerical analysis, set theory) under my belt than classes on the specifics of bearings or fasteners (something that my aerospace curriculum doesn't cover at all, but M.E. majors do). The way I see it, the abstract concepts are harder to learn on your own, but specifics of equipment you tend to learn as you deal with the equipment, read specs from catalogs or from your employer's protocol.
First, design and build your own space craft.
Second, pilot that spacecraft to Mars.
Third, gather some unique samples of stuff you find lying around on Mars.
Fourth, preserve those samples for future experimentation.
Fifth, pilot your spacecraft back to Earth, where you will turn over those samples to some carefully selected colleges and universities.
Sixth, patent all the cool shit you used in your spacecraft.
Seventh, patent all the algorithms and other cool shit you used to navigate to Mars and back - not to mention navigating around on the Mars surface.
I see nothing but profit here. You might rival Bill Gates, Rupert Murdoch, and that guy in Mexico if you can pull all of that off! Don't forget the patents - they're more important than all the other cool shit!
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
That's about retarded, if you ask me. Engineers are pretty much specialists. Specialists aren't necessarily the best people to solve networking, social, and employment problems. I'm sure that you're not a retard - you've just had one of those infamous blonde moments, right?
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
A few questions/thoughts to think about:
1) How do you know you'd enjoy working for the private space industry? Sure, it sounds cool, but until you try it, don't assume you'll love it.
2) Academics is not the most important thing. More important is getting experience. Look at the schools you're interested in and see what professors have contacts with the industry. E-mail them and, ideally, try to meet them. Most professors are very approachable and interested in working with undergrads. Sure, you'll be essentially free/cheap labor for 4 years. But you'll get hands-on experience and learn a lot, and, if you're any good, the professor will drop a note to his former students at SpaceX or whatever other company, who'll get you a job as soon as you graduate.
3) Take classes besides engineering. You'll learn a lot, meet new people (networking is the most important thing), and get a different perspective on life. And, you might decide something else is more interesting. Treat college as a chance to explore and learn, not a something to deal with on the way to what you think you want to do.
4) Male/female ratio and social interaction in general is essential. If you go to a good school, you will be battered by problem sets, projects, etc... You survive that by having friends, a significant other, etc... You don't survive that by just working harder. Having a good social life (which does not mean partying all the time) is vital for having a good college experience and being successful. Plus, you never know when your friends will be able to help you later in life. And learning how to socialize (which you're probably not the best at right now) while in college means you have the skills to be confident both for future personal relationships and when you look for a job and need to deal with other people.
5) If you/your parents don't have any money, go to a good state school or to a school that gives you a good scholarship and save >$100k. It's not really worth the hassle if you really take advantage of the opportunities in your school. And you can always work with a professor at another school during the summers.
6) If you do have the money, go to the best school you can. The advantage of those schools is not that the education is better, but that the networking opportunities are much better and that the professors there have the best connections. MIT and RPI are good. Also Cornell has a top notch engineering program (and it's my undergrad alma mater). Carnegie Mellon is very good. Also Cooper Union, UPenn, Princeton, and Columbia. Probably some others as well.
Good luck and remember, academics is not everything in life!
Mechanical, aeronautical, electrical or computing. A good name school helps, but a 4.0 degree from a less stellar school is good too.
Absolute nonsense. When I was starting out, I asked lots of questions of the more experienced engineers. That's how you learn the ocean of practical knowledge they don't put into the books. Now that I've been at it for over 20 years, I'm the one getting asked the questions, and I'm happy to answer them. In your world everyone sits on little islands reinventing the wheel and never sharing sometimes completely unique experiences.
Actually it isn't good advice; there's nothing 'good' about a telling a young person not to ask advice on life choices. The roads in life are not just simple 'engineering problems', since they are more often solved through experience rather than analysis by an inexperienced person.
For one thing those with experience can tell you when you're asking the wrong question, which is not that easy to deduce through analytical reasoning.
E.g. the 5 hour radius limit is stupid, studying far from home is not a disadvantage. Hell, a stint abroad is definitely strongly recommended, not just for academic but life experience reasons. Also don't study something because you want to get into a company, study it because you love what you are doing and going to bed feels like a waste. (to the point where your personal projects end up competing for time with your 'real' schoolwork)
You don't get into a place like SpaceX by wanting to work on spaceships, and then studying the right things. You get in by being exceptionally good at some skill they need, and to become exceptionally good at something you need to spend countless hours honing your skills, and only way you will be able to do that is if you like doing it. So don't fret that much about how to gain useful skills, instead do interesting stuff and the threads will connect in surprising ways.
Don't consider any school within 800 km of home. (I would relax that some for MIT, but not for RPI.) It's a big planet, get used to moving around on it.
As far as schools are concerned, check out MIT, Rice, Caltech and Ga Tech.
'Cause if you do, you need two things: wicked smarts and mad social skills. Unless you are one-in-a-billion smart and have your PhD by age 15 (which you clearly haven't), you need to be focused on making this your life, and by learning who everyone is in your field. The best way - and I mean this sincerely - to get into an existing is to know someone on the inside who wants you there. The best way to get into a startup is to know, or be one of, the founders.
That sounds like political bullshit, but it's true. You know how I got into NASA? My mother was the dental hygienist for a scientist there, and they chatted at appointments over the years about what her son did (aero engr). One time, he asked if I might be interested in lasers. Next thing you know I'm meeting the teem and chatting with the techs - and I understood the science and asked meaningful questions. I knew some CAD - back when almost nobody did. I talked with the math guy, and it turns out they are so sensitive to performance that they program some of their routines for laser time-of-flight in assembly/ machine code, so we talked about that since I learned to code on the 6502 in the summer of my 7th grade year (I was too poor to buy a compiler, so I hand compiled assembly into machine code). And boom - some medium smart kid with a year of undergrad engineering, a middling 3.6 gpa, got a co-op position with NASA. My story isn't unusual - the stack of resumes that come in for the truly "open" positions in these firms are filled with 4.0+ gpas, high profile school names, and activities that make Mother Theresa look like Hitler.
If you really, truly, want to make a go of it in a very selective field, you need to go where the contacts are. Visit colleges that (ideally) already have connections with companies. Make sure the professors are rubbing shoulders with the SpaceX guys regularly - actively collaborating if possible - and find out how you can get on whatever research project they're working on.
Being smart and getting a good degree won't cut it unless you plan on starting your own company (which isn't a bad idea, but does involve risk and money). Don't get me wrong - that IS a prerequisite. But just that will only put you in with the thousands of other smart kids who like rocketry. You need to get contact with people. Until the SpaceX guys know who you are, you're just another faceless piece of paper.
I'm not involved in aerospace anymore - the math is hard, the jobs are few, and I have too many other interests to be all consumed in my work - so I don't know where to tell you to go. Ideally, it will be a place with an active private-ish space department, and a place to "play" (launch things). I recommend taking an alternate approach - pretend you're looking for a PhD or Post-Doc program, not an undergrad. The shift in focus will put yo on the right track to find the PEOPLE you need to work with to get into the industry. Once you're in and people know you, you'll do well from there.
Note: this is all stuff I wish I understood when I was in high school. I just didn't have the discipline back then. FWIW, today I run my own engineering firm, and play with rockets on the side. Still, it'd be nice to play with somebody else's money for my hobby ;-)
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
So you're saying he's destined for management?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Don't go to Caltech for aerospace unless you just want to learn airplanes. I work at JPL and have a lot of interaction with CalTech students who complain about the lack of space stuff in the aero department... they don't even have an orbit mechanics class. MIT is ok if you want to do systems engineering, but generally their aero department doesn't do much space stuff either (last I heard, their orbit class was taught by a grad student who took it upon himself to have some sort of orbit class).
If you want to do SpaceX, I'd write them an email and ask for their advise, ask where they recruit from. They will probably want chemical prop and systems engineering people.
From what I've seen the best schools if you want to do space are Carnegie Mellon, Purdue, Colorado, UT Austin, Georgia Tech, Stanford, Michigan, UCLA, Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. Carnegie Mellon and Stanford have awesome robotics programs. Michigan and Caly Poly SLO have excellent cube sat programs. Michigan, Stanford, and UCLA have excellent electric propulsion. Georgia Tech and Michigan have excellent systems engineering. Purdue, UT Austin, and Colorado have excellent orbit mechanics. And Purdue has probably the best chemical propulsion program. Georgia Tech has a really amazing senior design class (best out of the 5 that I've advised as an industry person).
If you don't want to go to far, I'd recommend Michigan, Purdue, or CMU. But try to email SpaceX and see what they advise (but be aware that the person who responds will be biased towards their alma mater)
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
Disclosure: I went to RPI, I work at SpaceX.
Cornell, Carnegie Mellon, Rochester Institute of Technology, Clarkson, MIT, Johns Hopkins, Rensselaer, Olin, Columbia, etc are all very decent schools for engineering. The goal here should be to end up with an aeromech degree and no debt. Bring up a Google map of the northeast and search for university... huge list, right?
Private schools like RPI are good schools, but the costs make changing your mind late in your education a pretty expensive mistake. I'd recommend taking a bunch of different engineering courses early on (Computer Science, Structures, Electrical, Robotics), so you can really identify if aeromech is really something you like. CAD, Matlab, Python, and knowing your way around Office-like suites are interdisciplinary engineering staples. Space systems blend a ton of different aspects of engineering together, and you've only begun to scratch the surface in high school.
What will make your resume pop out for any aerospace employer is spring/summer/fall work experience. You can land engineering internships simply with good grades and common sense, but some will be 6 months long, and bump your graduation date by a semester or two. This adds more cost, so beware. Also, some classes are only offered in the fall or the spring, and you may need them to graduate.
Research projects are also a good way to go to get experience, but you get as much out as you put in. Try to butt into every aspect of the project, not just what you're working on, and understand how all parts fit together. You should leave the project knowing how to start up your own research if you were given the money.
When it comes time to apply to internships and jobs, don't focus too much on the qualifications - entry level engineers never meet the qualifications of entry level engineering jobs. If they did, they wouldn't be entry level. Some advice I got: If the qualifications are what you want to know, apply for the job. If they're already things you know, you will be bored. Use your college recruiting office for ideas, but spend time going to websites of companies you see in the news - they all have careers pages and open jobs, despite what the news says about the economy.
Bringing it back to the title, I feel it's best if you try to ignore that you want to go to School X and work at Company Y. Focus on being well-rounded and multifaceted for the first 2 years of a 4-year program, and then spend the next 2 years chasing the one aspect you've preferred the most. The roundedness will get you in the door at big (or little) engineering firms, and the late specialization will get you a full-time position fresh out of college.
Mechanical, aeronautical, electrical or computing. A good name school helps, but a 4.0 degree from a less stellar school is good too.
You learn much, much more from a top tier school. GPA is for schmucks. I'd rather have someone with a low GPA from a good school where they learned the theory behind stuff than a 4.0 from some middling school where they only know how to do cookbook problems. Space is full of hard problems, and if you want to make a difference in aerospace you need to seek out a school that will expose you to hard problems.
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who can count in binary and those who can't.
Check out Worcester Polytechnic Institute, in Worcester Massachusetts. It has a great engineering program and is generally highly regarded as one of the top schools in the field (right below MIT). They're also a bit different than most other schools, in that they run on a quarter system instead of semesters and have an intensive project system as graduation requirements regardless of major (internships and/or study abroad is almost a requirement), but that's part of what makes their program so good.
DON'T ASK AT SLASHDOT!
Asking at Slashdot is probably one of the few places which will give you an even higher number of competitors. Did you really think you were alone in that dream? ;)
If you want to work in Aerospace, have you considered applying to the Air Force Academy? It doesn't meet your radius obviously, but going to a school based on location might be a mistake in general. I don't know your situation, but you asked here so you are going to get all sorts of answers.
Yes will you have to put in some time to the Air Force when you get out, but if you have an aero degree and some time in the air force, you are almost guaranteed a job when you get out. This idea is obviously a long shot as the Academy is probably harder by the numbers to get into than MIT, but it might be the best decision outside of Caltech.
"We need a fourth law of Robotics: Stop Fingering My Wife"
Seconded.
Sure, you need to work hard in college. But it's also a once-in-a-lifetime to do things that, once you leave, it becomes much, much harder to do. You say the male/female ratio is unimportant? You say you don't care about social aspects? I suggest you reconsider.
I'm not saying you need to become a binge drinker or a man-slut. But there's only one time in your life when you'll be able to date college-age girls respectably, and you don't want to waste it. If that sounds superficial, it's not entirely. As you get older, you'll find that people close up; they build walls; they get harder and harder to connect with. (Plus, college, unlike the real world, has admissions criteria.) You will never get closer to people than during college, and that's worth a lot. It's a learning experience for both of you, and without it you'll have lived quite a bit less.
It's not unusual for students to travel, learn languages, see the world. For adults, this is discouraged. Once you get a job, you will get two or three weeks vacation annually. That's it. And time off on your resume is hard to explain. Don't waste your youth. You won't have the same socially-acceptable opportunities for exploration. Ever again.
Sometimes I think that the purpose of life is to collect stories. How many stories will you have by the time you graduate?
Connect with people. Travel. Learn a second language (You like engineering. German? Chinese?). Join organizations (Formula SAE, which builds racecars, is a good one) Become a well-rounded person. Don't waste opportunities, and don't fear failure. Just go out and do a bunch of stuff. Your 25-year-old self will have fewer regrets.
I realize this is outside your preferred radius, but if you want to do engineering, I'd consider Georgia Tech. It's very similar to MIT, albeit slightly less well-known. The aerospace program, in particular, is excellent. On top of that, it's one of the cheaper engineering schools for out-of-state students, and is much easier to get into than a place like MIT. Just a thought.
The first sentence is true. The second is completele backwards. None of us know so much we can solve every problem. The more people you ask or collaborate with the more succesful you'll be.
A little history before my advice (just like everyone else, I love to give my opinion)... I had to leave high school and start working full time because of one those curve balls life can throw you. On one hand I was quite angry because I was preparing to enter university to study sciences (in general to keep the story short) and on the other it was so exciting because I was a free bird and I could do whatever I wanted.
I did do a lot of shit work over the first few years and thought this was what was in store for me because of my lack of education. However my interest in sciences did not end when I left high school and I continued to pursue my interests through library books and projects @ home. Then I figured out the key to start doing what I wanted... Ask questions.
I asked. I sent resumes to companies that worked in my fields of interest. I called them to find out what they are doing and how I may get involved. There are a lot of really great people out there who respond to enthusiasm and you will find some that will give you the information you want and in some cases may even take you under thier wing.
The internet has made it even easier to not only ask questions (of other people or to pursue on your own) but also to get involved with other people who have the same interest as you. I've used it since day one.
The first 5 years of work sucked but the following 20 have been awesome. The only time I met closed doors was when I tried to get a job in government. It seems they will take someone fresh out of university over someone with 10+ years of relevant experience. Meh... I hate bureaucracy anyway.
The short of it is asking questions has taken me everywhere I wanted to go. I still have no formal education but the work I do in the company I'm currently at has a lot of crossover with what the engineers are doing and it really pisses them off. :P
Notably, this is one of the biggest differences between engineers of pre-internet era and those of post-internet era. Pre-internet information was scarce, and skill to find information on your own was very valuable.
Internet changed this upside down. Now it's a flood of information, and those who are considered best are those who can pick the needed information out of the constant stream of useless informational overload. In this regard, using slashdot and similar sites as a filter against general flood and a starting point to isolating which pieces of information are important is a mark of a successful modern engineer.
When marketing the 'private space industry', the word 'space' is often used as if there's some equivalence between rising out of the stratosphere and attaining a useful orbit. The reason past space programs involved gigantic rockets with huge tanks of fuel, is that's how much energy is required to get very far out of the gravity well. No amount of engineering advances can change this much. People also use the word 'private' as if its a synonym for 'makes sense in the market'. But in this context its more of a synonym for 'conning gullible people out of money without being constrained by the federal GS salary system.' My opinion is if you want to do real space related engineering, go to somewhere like MIT that has JPL connections, and forget about 'private' space industry. Space related engineering doesn't even potentially make sense for private industry beyond launching communications satellites with conventional rockets. A somewhat superficial exception is private companies that do engineering for government space projects, but that has always been how the space program worked. Most of the real engineering was done by employees of companies like Lockheed Martin, with government funding. Although significant contributions were also made by good engineers and scientists at NASA, the role of NASA was largely administrative.
These days most NASA centers do a lot of pretend/junk science, and are very depressing places to work if you have much ambition or integrity. JPL is significantly better than most, and has had many good projects like the Mars rovers and some scientifically useful telescopes. I'm not sure what the prognosis is for the long term though.
As a ME working in the racing/automotive industry I can tell you that experience is king in the engineering field. This becomes even more true when you are targeting a "small" industry (in this case Private space flight). Get into the best school you can, that as other people have said, gives you opportunities to work for professors doing research in the industry you want to work in. Unless you ABSOLUTELY can't leave home for whatever reason, follow the research.
Most importantly though, from your first day on campus start contacting the companies you want to work for and inquire if they have coop/intern programs. Getting a job out of school in a highly competitive industry such as the one you intend to work for is nearly impossible, but if you have previously worked for them you already have a foot in the door so to speak. Coop is usually preferable over interning because the company will have already invested lots of time in helping develop you as an engineer, and you will have made personal relationships with them.
Hope this helps and good luck.
I live in upstate NY and don't want to travel super far
Well, it's good that you want to have a life with friends and family in NY. However, if you want to be a rocket engineer for new space firms, you're gonna have to go west eventually.
There are boatloads of aerospace companies here in southern California, including SpaceX and Scaled and Lockheed.
You could write them (Elon, Burt, Bezos) a letter now, explain your dream about being an engineer in the coming age of commercial spaceflight, and asking advice on where to study, what to study, and summer internship opportunities. And get an internship as soon as you can and start being around engineers and talking to them. Knowing people and human networking is worth ten times a fancy degree from an ivy league school.
Cornell. It's a no brainier if you can get in and want to stay in Upstate NY.
Disagreeing with me does not mean you get to mod me troll.
See you in 8 years.
First, I've studied in Germany and while the universities here do (mostly) have no big names, they have high quality curricula. My guess is, that beside some low quality private universities, the US system also provides descend education on all state universities. So go there and try to master your stuff. Stick your head out of the crowd. Otherwise you may end up at SpaceX, but only as an unimportant minion who never comes near important and cool technology.
The next thing is. Go to a university which matches your profile of interest. If it is 1000 km away. Go there. To be close to home will only make you go there too often. Try to stand on your own feet. You can visit friends and parents in your holidays.
Ah yes. Don't ask Slashdot for advice. Wrong place. Most of us here do not work for SpaceX or other similar companies. SO how should we know?
And one other thing: Study something you like. Don't look at the open job list, because it is todays list and nobody knows how the list will look like in 5 or 7 years when you got your master degree (don't drop out with a bachelor, please). You are only good in things you like. And you have to be good to go to the interesting places in engineering.
Look for related research projects you like. Get involved with them now if you can. Just communicating with the TA, and if your lucky the professor, will tell you if you will fit in. If you enjoy the project, the TA's like you, and you impress your professor, you are going to make the long haul. The name of a University is nothing compared to a professor with connections.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
Is that walking driving or flying?
a 5 hour flight go anywhere
a 5 hour drive go where you can and take what you can get
a 5 hour walk go f yourself
For an engineering student you are not thinking this out very much, "like spaceX" really? where are these private companies "like spaceX", I promise you they are not within your bubble
Being an engineer is about learning how to solve problems.
'Asking Slashdot' is about getting other people to solve your problems.
If you want to be an engineer, you had better learn how to start solving your own problems, or answering questions like the one you posed, by yourself.
The act of asking a question shows you want to learn, understand that someone else may have the answer and are willing to listen. This is how science and engineering work. To suggest that asking a question is a problem is ludicrous.
And btw, a book and a website are just efficient consolidations of (often but not always) one person's knowledge - it's really no different conceptually than asking a question.
Don't forget the social networking and dumb luck factors.
Being great in your field is great.
Being great in your field, and you know someone who will make the right introductions, will get you the job.
I may have skills that are extremely valuable to anyone. I won't make it past the applicant queue in most places, because they don't know anything about me yet. No amount of wording on a cover letters can fix that.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
I was in your situation about 7 years ago myself, was visiting RPI, applied to MIT as my long shot. Got into MIT somehow, got my SB MechE, MS MechE (had the chance to go PhD, decided not to), working in industry now and I think I've got a little bit of perspective on the engineering school experience.
From working directly with lots of engineers, helping profs select grad students, my own job search, and helping hire engineers there's a couple things you can do that'll greatly help your success no matter where you go to undergrad. Be passionate about something, stay focused, and do substantial work on it. Whether it's Robocup, Formula SAE, rocketry club, etc, just do it and make an impact. Do design, learn, work with people, and have fun doing it. Add being friendly and reliable (don't underestimate these!) to that and you really can go anywhere.
I think I could have gotten a similar education at most reputable engineering schools, everyone has the same statics and dynamics equations, but if you're passionate about what you do a top school can be a truly exhilarating experience. Besides getting the opportunity to do substantial work during undergrad for top PIs, there was just an intense forward current that came from living, working, and keeping up with brilliant people. Make sure you've got the humility to deal with people smarter than you and can take failures in stride and you really can come out with a tremendous life experience.
Whether you do Aero+MechE, or Aero or MechE will really depend on the specific program where you eventually go. When you end up working on real projects you'll likely find the impact is small, and from what I've seen Aero and MechE resumes are often thrown into the same pile. Both programs should be teaching structures, dynamics, design, controls, thermo/fluids (different spin, but it's the same math) and you may find your time is better spent on your own independent study than the specific requirements of a double degree.
YMMV and such. Good luck!
You gotta find first gear in your giant robot car
On upper class student's projects, professor's research, with companies they know over summer break. Start talking to profs in the fall, so you get a job by next summer.
Learn how to use real world shop tools, because everything you design needs to be built...right. Tear apart and put back together everything you can to gain experience on "what works", why and how mistakes get made & then fixed.
Engineering is a profession where you never, ever stop learning...including the unsuccessful results which are just as much about learning as the things that work.
Eventually you start to form an internal order of design thinking for your field that gives you the ability to take a desired end result and sort the 50 variables down to the key defining elements that dictate what designs are reasonably possible, so you don't waste design, construction & testing time. The more quickly you can get to real world possibilities, the more quickly your work and career can progress.
Several people have posted that co-op or internship (or diy) work is the way to go. I strongly agree. Pick a school that has intern/coop program and uses it heavily (ask what space companies use their interns too!) I interned (as comp.engr) many years ago and it made my career. I hired summer interns several times since. When I worked at Aerovironment in Moorpark CA, we hired a number of interns ... many from Cal Poly SLO. A couple of them got hired full time after graduation. (dual major aerospace/mechanical is good recommendation)
Another option (although probably not before doing school work) is DIY. A good friend of mine had an idea for rocket engines, wanted to do space work, but was full time employed doing computer animation (sweat shop job! dont go there!) He got a small cnc mill, lathe, etc and set up in his local makerspace (crashspace in LA) and started building. He did some tests, got known in the biz, took a leave of absence from his day job, took some contract jobs making parts at crashspace.... and now he's living and working out in Mojave for some rocket company. If you want it, work for it, it may happen for you.
Also if you are really serious about rocketry, get the heck out of upstate NY. There are no rocket companies there per se. Then again with that 5hr radius, you may not be really serious. If you want it -be realistic and do what it takes. See the world dude. Upstate is gorgeous but lacks a lot of industry.
And forget the PhD. By the time you finish, no one will want to hire you, and all the fun work will be done.
US space, outside NASA, is a small industry. Space-X has only 1000 employees.
In 1965, the Apollo program had 376,700 employees, about 36,000 within NASA and the rest contractors. NASA today has 18,000, which is too many considering how little NASA is doing right now.
Go to a technical school (MIT would be your best bet) and major in Aero-Astro Engineering. You realize that's a separate discipline, right?
It's also the hardest one at MIT. I was in Computer Science and Electrical Engineering there, but had a handful of Aero-Astro friends. They were, every single one, intellectually impressive.
Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
Indeed - reading Richard Feynman's "What do you care what other people think?" where he describes his role in the investigation into the Challenger disaster, one gets the sense that he asked innumerable questions. Now, Feynman may not have been an engineer, but he was a hell of a lot smarter than anyone posting on this board. If someone of his intellectual capability had no issues with asking questions, then there should be few reservations for anyone else!
Not necessarily. The act of asking a question may show that, depending on the question and how it is asked. It might also show that the person asking is lazy, and doesn't care to find an answer on his/her own. If you are asked the same question by the same person repeatedly, it might indicate that you're not answering it clearly or that the person is incapable of understanding the answer.
I do agree that believing that the mere act of asking a question is a problem itself is ridiculous, however.
Regards,
dj
The truth is that if you want to do something like that, you need to not make being a corporate lackey and cubicle-worker as your life's goal. You need to be of the mindset where you want to beat SpaceX and their incredibly top-heavy corporate style where they feel as if they are gods or something and you should be grateful to work for them (despite having few actual successes, as is the norm in this industry) at their own game. If you're not going to aim at making your own company or working with a few friends to make one of your own, then you're really not going to be valuable to any company or actually get into space. It's a bit of a catch-22, really.
Also, the best engineers that go places and do things are the ones that build things and basically, have patents. Schooling is worthless beyond a certain point unless you want to work at, say, a defense contractor or other government type job. What matters is what you can actually do and build. I'd be sure to take some classes in metalworking, welding, and fabrication in any case, as these are real skills that you'll need wherever you go. Also, CAD and similar software is good to know how to use.
Look at job listings and note what skills and certificates and so on that they want. Because skills can get you a job. A degree is optional, really, and only "required" because they want to weed out the rank idiots and those without any skills.
note - no job I have had actually cared one iota about my degree or used it as a factor - they wanted skills, pure and simple.
I'd also at the least, build your own home based fabrication machine and start working with basic designs. Also, start building your own electronic and similar designs as you can manage. Say, if you want to get into designing rockets and so on, having built a few designs yourself (how Scaled Composites got started, btw), is a big plus. And who knows, maybe you'll be the one to make some design breakthrough.
Get into experimental aviation. Being able to show up in a plane you've built yourself is the best resume you could have.
Times are changing too quickly to rely on something attractive to even be around 20 years from now. Be a well-rounded ME first, specialized in aerospace second, with a goal to work in private spaceflight third. It's OK to have a goal but do not ignore the potential to [have to] work in an unrelated field several years down the road. The economy is contracting long term. Do we still have the opportunity for supersonic travel? Do we still have reusable space transport? Do we still have a way to get to the moon? Bu the time you have finished your education this will be painfully obvious.
Most of all make sure you don't have significant debt.
thegodmovie.com - watch it
We aren't talking about just astronauts.
http://www.metafilter.com/90280/The-worst-spacerelated-disaster-happened-in-Xichang-China-in-1996
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
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Step 5: Profit!
OK, seriously...
As with any other engineering field, don't pass up any opportunities to learn new shit. You're only as valuable to your prospective employer as your (perceived) skills and willingness/ability to learn new ones.
I didn't start out in aerospace. I thought I wanted to write video games, but ended up doing stints in telecom, finance, and at a US DOE research lab for most of my career. I eventually landed in aerospace/military. Vast majority of the aerospace jobs are with companies doing government (read: mostly military) contract work... just so you know, in case that's an issue.
Even if you don't get your dream job right out of school, stay focused. If you're genuinely interested in aerospace and have a clue, I think you will get there eventually.
Disclaimer: I'm old enough to be your dad... not sure if that's a plus or a minus in your book. :D
Get a NASA internship or Co-op while you are going to school. You will meet a lot of people in the industry including those in private space. Also if you are a co-op and do well you will end up with a NASA job. Then you can apply for a Graduate Fellowship. They will pay you for 1 year of your salary while you go full time for grad school. This way you can get your education cheap. You do owe them a couple of years after that but use that time to build up your skills on great projects before applying to private space.
I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
Five hours radius by Falcon 1, Falcon 9, Falcon Heavy or Dragon?
er, this was me
Support the source, Open Source! An entire site developed with OSS
The big aerospace companies are grappling with the impending mass exodus of old people like me, and most are looking to hire enthusiastic young folk like you. Go to a decent (regionally accredited) school, get good grades, maybe look for an internship.
One thing to consider: the larger the company, the more opportunity available to you over time. As programs and contracts come and go, you'll stand a better chance moving within a big company than one with just a few things going on.
in Schenectady, not far from RPI. A small college with engineering since the early 1800's.
May as well say that as a college freshman, RIT is pretty sweet, and can help you get a job wherever you want considering how many companies kiss up for interns and such.
http://CryoLANparty.com/ A lan I'm staff on!
The guy who design the space craft isn't one to ride it usually... So it seems pretty safe for him.
(\__/) This is Lapinator
(='.'=) copy it in your sig
(")_(") so it can take over the world
SEDS (seds.org) is a national student group in the USA and stands for Students for the Exploration and Development of Space. There are local chapters at a lot of universities so they'd be great place to make contact with people who are wanting to get into the same industry as you. They would also probably be good people to contact to get advice on choosing a university for your undergraduate studies. I attended one meeting of a chapter at the University of Arizona and they were doing some seriously cool stuff. A few of them had put together a microgravity experiment to study liquid lenses and got a grant to go up in a zero-g plane to test it out. They're currently starting a project to build a micro-satellite and arrange for it's launch. That this is being down by an undergraduate club on their own initiative is pretty impressive.
...at your choice between Russian, Chinese or Persian. US space program is disappearing, so you will have to work abroad.
Because there is no way you are going to get a job in a retro industry like Engineering anywhere in the US... space is a metaphor that we conquered decades ago here.
if your life is such a big joke then why should I care?
Mod parent up. WPI fits the bill perfectly as an option. If you plan on applying to RPI, definitely apply to WPI.
I know for a fact that SpaceX has a ton of Purdue grads. Mostly because they have a fantastic propulsion research center.
So, either go to undergrad at Purdue and stay for a masters, or go to your state school, do really well and do your grad work at Purdue.
Blue Origin has a decent amount of Purdue grads as well.
Above all else you need to do excellent work in school have a decent amount of ambition. I did ok in school and "settled" for being happy with life instead having much ambition. :-)
MIke Melville was not looking for a job. He build an airplane from plans (a Rutan design) and flew it out there to show Burt. Burt offered him a job, and that was that. No degree, he just demonstrated that he could do exactly what they were doing. That led him to be the first private astronaut. Sure others at scaled went to MIT or whatever. I sent a resume to Scaled (along with a number of other people I know) and I got a phone interview and the others didn't. Why? Probably because my resume is full of verbs from DOing stuff. Parent post is spot-on.
Your RPI medal will get you a half price discount at a great school and a degree that will easily unlock many doors just on the name alone.
RPI is where so many key technologies have originated (including Ethernet!) and that will continue to be true going forward. It's also a school that encourages undergraduate participation in such projects. You'll never regret the opportunity.
-Patrick
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
Here are the rankings for top 10. You can buy the full lists. but even better is send off questions to HR at SNC, SpaceX, Blue Horizons, etc and ask them. HR ppl are fairly stupid about the engineering and science world. They could not tell a total loser from Einstein. The reason is that most of them were losers from the business world (HR and Marketing is where the dredges of business worlds go to). BUT, HR WILL have a list of the top schools that they employ. And yes, they will be happy to tell you that.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
RPI is a fine school, you'll find plenty of company. Or, find a way into Caltech. JPL is a long way from your 5-hour radius, but you actually have the opportunity as an undergrad to get involved in some cool-ass stuff. JPL is a mechanical engineer's paradise, those of us who are EEs get treated OK %^).
"Academics come first hands down so male/female ratio and party scene aren't too important."
Part of college is to have fun, because once you are older, you're not "allowed" to be irresponsible like you were in your college days. I studied engineering, and looking back, I wish I had been to more parties and met more people.
When you start interviewing for jobs, you need to be able to hold a conversation, be interesting, talk about different things, and generally be a likable person. An active social life will help you with that.
Life isn't all about academics - enjoy it a little.
I know some people will argue with you about the degrees, but I'm one who won't. I've gone very far, and had quite a bit of success, without a degree. I don't hire on the merit of a piece of paper. I hire on the merit of the individuals skills. ... and I'll quote an email from Dick Rutan.
"To dream is great and never give up. The dreamers that are successful are the ones that can go back into your shop build it and bring dreams to reality. Fly it then talk about it."
I strongly suspect if anyone wants to really get in the door there, doing rocket and balloon launches, such as we've seen mentioned on here, and pushing the envelope are the ways to do it. Anything we do, should only to be to impress ourselves. If it happens to get us in the door with someone else, all the better.
I have some of my own ideas that I'm working on. They're way outside of my experience. If it ever goes from electronic development (autocad and simulators), and the first scale prototype is built, I intend to impress no one but myself. If it gets past that phase, will it get me in the door with an existing company? Who knows. Maybe my ideas will be purchased, or maybe investors will help me build my own. But right now, I'm not holding my breath, and I'm not letting it interfere with the day job that pays the bills. What will happen in 5 years or 10 years? Most likely I'll still be doing IT work. Who knows though. Several years ago, I had worked at the same shop for almost a decade. I was sure I'd be there til I retired. A few years ago, I was looking for work. I've changed industries a few times since them. Who knows where I'll be in the future. I know just as well as any of us. I just know, I won't ever stay somewhere that I will stagnate in a cube, with the promise of advancement "someday". I don't want to die of old age, thinking of what I could have done.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
This has been discussed on the a-rocket list http://exrocketry.net/mailman/listinfo/arocket
There are active members who are employees of several space companies.
http://www.hobbyspace.com/ is probably the best collection of resources about space, get to know the companies and people.
read "The Rocket Company" http://www.hobbyspace.com/AAdmin/archive/SpecialTopics/RocketCom/titlePage.html
Look, so you took insult to this. How many ppl in HR have you met that have a SINGLE clue about a technical ppl. FEW, if any. The ONLY time that I met anyone with even a tech background was a ex-CISer who was a failure in the tech world so became a star in the HR in the firm. THat is, until they realized that she was just as bad at HR as she was as a tech.
Hell, for somebody that takes such exception, you do not even have the courage or backbone to post your login. It says a lot about HR and yourself. And if you think that it was horrible that I spoke about HR, what exactly is your background that you can judge tech ppl? Are you an engineer or even a scientists? Nuts, even GD lawyers have enough brains to insist that all lawyers that work in IP have a science/tech/engineering background.
And to take this one step further, I had an old friend of mine that got his PdH in HR from NIU. He now works for a major 50 as their top HR. And he has commented many times that most of HR IS the bottom of the business world. And he would not presume to judge engineers/scientists/etc.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
All the comments about getting out of your education what you put into it are spot on. Things are not taught at MIT; resources are made available, whether that's projects to glom onto, professor's time, the general atmosphere of extracurriculars, etc. The difference is who these companies come recruiting to, and the network of contacts available. I did CMU -> MIT -> JPL, and I wouldn't have made it despite perfect numbers and a host of paper projects without the support of my advisor at MIT, who along with another one of my SE professors pretty much provided a litany of filial academic connection lining the way past those couple days of interviews with golden, personal touches. As an aside, the advisor of my advisor of my advisor was von Karman. I'll also mention that I got an offer at Orbital, and they revealed they have the directive only to accept students from a short list of some of the better thought of schools people have mentioned. SpaceX is a bit more egalitarian. They will call you up and do the Google 20 questions to suss out your technical acumen. JPL has a wide mix too, though three out of four of my bosses are fellow MIT alum.
If there is one thing I learned from Government aerospace contractors, its WHO, not WHAT you know that counts.
If you are not good at doing technical stuff, but have good people skills with those above you, they will put you in charge of engineers,
I found dealing with people who have management skills but limited awareness of the laws of physics the most frustrating experience I ever had.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
From what I hear, if you go to MIT you'll work 18 hours a day and have no social life. If you go to RPI, you'll work 12 hours a day and have no social life.
The most important thing I learned from RPI was how to fail. It was an important life lesson, but it had nothing to do with my degree. I worked way harder and got way worse grades than I ever did in high school. From what I've heard MIT is a worse version of the same thing. I graduated with an embarrassingly low GPA. But I learned it's more important for me personally to fail at something hard than succeed at something easy.
The upside is that pretty much everyone around the world have heard of MIT, where RPI is only know in the serious engineering community. My first job out of school was working for the Army. No matter how many times I corrected my boss, he still thought I went to RIT.
"It doesn't take a rocket scientist" -I guess I should leave then
It makes me wonder how many aerospace/aerospatial engineers even have class 3 rocketry licenses? How many have built their own rocket motor? (this requires tons of sub-skills as you might imagine)
With the advent of portable CNC machines and fabrication devices that you can fit in your garage, a whole world is now open to many people.
Of course go to school. But also do what you want in the meantime. Spend as little as possible while getting the most out of your education. Myself, I took as many classes as I possibly could (almost 80 credits) at the local community college before transferring. Be lean, mean, and inventive, and someone will want to hire you.
I know of a guy who got hired by one of the biggest newspace companies, apparently they were very interested in a large model rocket he built himself and tested. This kind of thing used to be more common, but I guess not that many students nowadays grow up building Heathkits, flying models and other hardware stuff on their own.
So at least take advantage of whatever student engineering projects are available at your school, or even better take the initiative to start one. You'll learn a lot in the process, and maybe even more importantly, build your confidence level.
If you are willing to stretch your distances, the University of Alabama in Huntsville is a good engineering school(not n aMIT or Georgia Tech) that is collocated with a lot of space and missile companies. By going to UAH you can do Co-ops and internships with NASA, Army Missile and Space Command, Space X, and others. Almost every US space and missile company has a presence in Huntsville Alabama and takes students from UAH.
The purpose of language is communication, If the idea is clear the grammar ain't important
Although I mostly agree with the part about seeking advice and asking questions, I don't think most folks understand the Challenger Commission. Basically the whole Commission was an exercise in politics (Feynman knew that General Kutyna and the engineering crew at Morton Thiokol knew what was the likely problem was, but they were politically unable to deliver the news, so Feynman simply delivered it for them).
The one thing about this example that is about engineering is that Feynman (a very smart guy by the way), basically laid out for the public to see the all-too-common disconnect between managment and engineering. In this case, NASA managers presenting rosy pictures where the engineers were sweating the cost-cutting/corner-cutting. Since Feynman's job wasn't on the line, he got to ask the questions that many of the engineers dared not ask. Also because he was smart and articulate, he often got the answers where other askers did not.
The moral of this story? Just being smart and asking questions isn't enough... You have to be able to communicate too. If you think people don't like what you are communicating, you'd better have a plan B.
When I was at RPI in the mid-1980's, several RPI professors sat on the board for the local community college - Hudson Valley Community College. At that time, you could do two years at HVCC and transfer all of it to RPI, assuming you kept a decent QPA (which any simian could do at HVCC). This would give you the first two years of RPI ar 1/10th the cost of RPI itself. I'd be surprised if this hasn't changed since then, but it's worth looking into.
"Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
Schooling is worthless beyond a certain point
That's true only for very high values of certain point.
If you want to work in the space industry as an engineer, the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation will show you how the odds are stacked. To get anything into orbit with rockets you need a mass ration of something like 40:1, that is the propellant you need to carry weighs forty times everything else: engines, tanks, payload, etc.
You cannot fine tune a system to that level with gut feelings alone, you must do a lot of calculations. It is rocket science, you know.
Of course, practical experience is also a must, but experience will never bring you the theoretical knowledge you need. Without an engineering degree you can still rise to the top of the industry as a manager, of course, but that's not engineering.
Without an engineering degree you may still build great rockets, but they will be rockets designed by someone else. You will not be the creator, only the hired hand labor.
I'm a PhD student in Aerspace at Cornell, where I also did my undergrad (and somewhere you should definitely check out, especially if you're in the area). At Cornell, we've very successfully competed in the university nanosat competitions (NANOSAT-4 with CUSat and NANOSAT-6 with Violet). Nearly everyone from these teams goes on to work in the space industry. In fact, SpaceX, Boeing, and others come to campus specifically to recruit from within CUSat and Violet.
You should look at some of the companies you are interested in and see what types of internships they have. Also try to make some contacts there and see what they advise. But you should definitely study the things you are interested in and enjoy and take it from there. You don't want to end up doing something you are not interested in for the rest of your life right? Don't listen to some of the people earlier in this post saying 'asking here is dumb'. Asking questions is important.
I went to Rochester Institute of Technology (RIT) for ME (they have an aerospace option, which I didn't take). What was great about their program is that you have to do mandatory co-ops. You go to school for 5 years instead of the normal 4, but over a year of that time is spent working for other companies. And you have to hunt for the jobs and apply for them just as you would for any normal job after graduation. Even though it is tough sometimes to find a place to co-op that you want and who wants you in the end it is worth it for the experience of the job hunt and quite frankly it pays much better than most summer jobs you'd find (unpaid internships aren't allowed). And since classes are designed so you don't just co-op during the summer you may have a better chance at getting an internship in the Fall, Winter or Spring at a desired company since you won't be competing with so many other applicants during the Summer. While I did find a co-op at an Aerospace company and I was excited to get it, please remember that you may not enjoy all of the types of jobs that those companies offer. The co-op I did there was more related to Manufacturing engineering, so quality control and processes and lots of tedium. No better way to find out what areas of your field you DON'T want to do than to spend a few months actually doing it. Experience is key to finding out what you really like to do but it doesn't have to be all on-the-job training. Be sure to look for hands-on extra-curriculars that a school offers, not just courses you may think will interest you. Again, I know I'm pimping RIT, but they have an Aero Club that does more than just make simple RC model airplanes (they've sent stuff to space!), but also have clubs for other Mechanical enthusiasts like Formula-1 and FIRST Robotics that often can consume large portions (sometimes too much) of your free time. And remember, if you aren't happy at one school there is no shame in transferring. Don't force yourself to stay at a school you hate just because you feel like you have to finish what you started.
Get drunk and get laid as often as you can when you're young, being happy should be your main goal in life.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I'm not in the aerospace field - maybe applying directly into the private space industry is your best bet. But, in my career, I've learned the best way to enter a field that is normally closed to you is to build a solid network. That doesn't mean shmoozing your way in, however. That means, work hard at the jobs you can get, and build great professional relationships with others. As the private space industry grows, it wouldn't be surprising that someone you worked with who has a high opinion of you will enter the industry and will be asked, "got any friends? we're hiring like crazy."
I wrote this:
http://rocketforge.org/?p=436
a few years ago. As a co-founder of Masten Space Systems I would get this question frequently enough that I wrote a standard blog article about it. Here's the gist:
Work for NASA but leave before it makes you cynical.
Work in Mojave but leave or else you’ll never get married.
No matter what, build something.
Internships!
Go to some key conference and meet people
Use LinkedIn, VisualCV, and yes, Facebook
Know your industry intimately
Join Students for the Exploration and Development of Space (SEDS)
Go get an advanced degree. Get it from the International Space University (ISU) if you can
Become an expert at something
Do something risky
Spectacularly fail at something
Be LOUD about it!
You know, I'd be willing to bet that the wonders of the Internet have really advanced what they can do too.
Not long ago, I was thinking back to when I was a kid. There was no Internet. Well, there was, but I had no way to get to it.
When I graduated high school, there were less than 10 web sites. We did have BBSs. Most had porn and door games. And there were the collections of text files, from dubious sources. Oh, we shouldn't forget the experts that populated the newsgroups. Well, about the same ratio of experts, to liars who said they were experts, as Wikipedia has. :)
I lived far enough from any major cities, where the libraries had scarce information. Good luck finding experts. The closest I found to civilian aerospace group was some folks who made model rockets, but never went above a Class C motor.
Getting my hands on construction equipment was rough. Flea markets, yard sales for deals, or if I had money (ya, right), I could order through retail outlets.
Now we can get tools and supplies through Craigslist and eBay. We can find and talk to experts world wide almost instantly (depending on when they read their email). We can read people's accounts of what they've done, and watch videos on how successful they were. And hell, if I were to start a project, I could present it to hundreds of thousands of people in just a day (submit the story to Slashdot), or possibly more attention by emailing press releases to every publication on the planet.
I wish I was doing stuff that I did when I was a kid.. I had room to do stuff. Growing up on a farm sucked for socialization, but had it's advantages, like I could build a rocket at the house, and launch it in the back field. I could probably have done motor tests on some pretty big motors, and no one would have cared.
Then again, if I was still out there, I wouldn't be making as much money as I am now, so I most likely wouldn't be able to fund crazy hobbies. :)
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.