Cutting Open a Heatsink Heatpipe To See Inside

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Cutting Open a Heatsink Heatpipe To See Inside

Posted by timothy on Thursday October 27, 2011 @07:48AM from the well-lookie-here dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Frostytech gets to the heart of Zalman's CNPS11X heatsink by cutting a section of heatpipe from the CPU cooler to inspect its inner composite heatpipe wick structure. Now that's an in-depth heatsink review! Interesting photos of the dissected heatpipe's composite wick — sintered copper powder on top and axial groove wick below — that you're unlikely to see elsewhere. In the late 1960s the first commercial heatpipes were used by NASA to stabilize satellite temperatures; now they stabilize multi-core processors."

132 comments

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

Oblig Futurama reference by LostCluster · 2011-10-27 07:48 · Score: 2

That's pure heatsink pr0n, those heatsinks don't stay inside cases.
1. Re:Oblig Futurama reference by Mashiki · 2011-10-27 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  hah.
  Funny enough though, I get the feeling with the current generation of CPU's, we're just about at the end of basic air cooling. Especially since sealed liquid cooling units are becoming dirt cheap. For the price you pay for this one, you can pick up a sealed unit that has half the noise ratio. So if you really want to build a nice quiet system you can.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
2. Re:Oblig Futurama reference by Lumpy · 2011-10-27 09:40 · Score: 1
  
  Huh? with heatpipe tech I can go fanless, that's 800X quieter than a sealed liquid setup.
  There are massive i5, i7 and amd heatpipe setups available. you nee a giant case for it, and some guys even add more supports, and if you set up the case right you get a chimney effect that causes good airflow without any fans AND still running full clock speeds.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
3. Re:Oblig Futurama reference by Jeng · 2011-10-27 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  It looked like it might have been the end of basic air cooling with the Pentium 4.
  Chips keep on getting more and more efficient, producing less and less heat for the same amount of work being performed.
  It used to be that water cooling was almost required, but now people are getting over 4 ghz on air cooling.
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
4. Re:Oblig Futurama reference by Khyber · 2011-10-27 09:44 · Score: 1
  
  "we're just about at the end of basic air cooling"
  Not even close.
  See this? This is 300w in a 30mm x 30mm package.
  Regular aluminum/copper/combo heatsinks simply won't cool it.
  A copper-cored heat sink covered with high-pressure blasted carbon dust has zero issues keeping it cool.
  Bear in mind I had to use an Itanium II MX2 heat sink (already rated for 260+w TDP) and modify it a bit (pure copper wouldn't dissipate/radiate heat fast enough) but we're by NO means done with air cooling.
  Especially with Mesophasic Carbon Pitch with 1,000w/mK+ TC (4x better than copper) coming out soon.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
5. Re:Oblig Futurama reference by AngryNick · 2011-10-27 10:19 · Score: 1
  
  That's pure heatsink pr0n, those heatsinks don't stay inside cases.
  Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is this fancy heatsink stuff akin to audiophiles and their speaker wire? How much of a performance gain are we really talking about? I only have a bunch of crappy laptops, so I really have no idea.
Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 07:52 · Score: 4, Funny

> In the late 1960s the first commercial heatpipes were used by NASA to stabilize satellite temperatures
Why didn't they just use fans? ...um, what? ...Really? Oh. Never mind.

--
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
1. Re:Before anyone else says it... by LastGunslinger · 2011-10-27 08:00 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  The space program has been a giant government boondoggle that has produced nothing of value for the citizens of the United States. The free market certainly would've far surpassed the successes of NASA if not for regulations and taxation. /s
2. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 08:02 · Score: 0
  
  Whoosh
3. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 08:04 · Score: 2
  
  That's either funny in a profoundly geeky way, or a perfect illustration of the perils of a public education. I don't know which.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
4. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  That is so incredibly untrue that I don't even know where to begin.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
5. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 08:07 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Or, rather, lack of Whoosh...
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
6. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 08:08 · Score: 0
  
  FYA the /s at the end of the post denotes sarcasm...
7. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Thud457 · 2011-10-27 08:08 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  In space, no one can hear you Whoosh.
  
  --
  the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
8. Re:Before anyone else says it... by MarkGriz · 2011-10-27 08:11 · Score: 0
  
  Damn, I thought Ron Paul was posting on slashdot
  
  --
  Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
9. Re:Before anyone else says it... by wagnerrp · 2011-10-27 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  In space, nobody can hear the whoosh.
10. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 08:12 · Score: 1
  
  Ah. Ok, you got me.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
11. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 08:14 · Score: 1
  
  Seriously? Ron Paul said that? It's certainly not a Libertarian view.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
12. Re:Before anyone else says it... by wagnerrp · 2011-10-27 08:17 · Score: 2
  
  Public education. You don't stabilize satellites with RCS jets. You use reaction wheels, or CMGs, or you just spin the whole thing up. RCS jets are fine for something like the shuttle and other low endurance space craft. For anything that stays up for years, you don't want to be wasting precious fuel for anything other than station keeping and potential orbit transfers.
13. Re:Before anyone else says it... by LastGunslinger · 2011-10-27 08:19 · Score: 2
  
  It's cool. I've noticed Poe's Law extends to most crackpot political stances. Impossible to tell the difference between sincerity and parody.
14. Re:Before anyone else says it... by sohmc · 2011-10-27 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  I graduated with a liberal arts degree so not all of us remember everything from science class...
  which leads me to this question: I understand why you can't have fans in space (lack of air). But why couldn't you just expose the processor to the vacuum of space? Obviously, with some sort of shielding for radiation, space debris, etc.
  I know that water-cooled processors pretty much just expose water-filled pipes to the actual processor and then cycle it around thus cooling it off. But with just a vacuum, couldn't that heat just go out as energy?
  
  --
  We don't live in Shouldland.
15. Re:Before anyone else says it... by dyingtolive · 2011-10-27 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  You would use... no, nevermind. My head hurts too much already.
  
  --
  Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
16. Re:Before anyone else says it... by washort · 2011-10-27 08:33 · Score: 1
  
  You can, but remember that water cooling is more efficient than air cooling because water conducts heat better than air. Vacuum doesn't conduct heat at all, so all of your heat loss has to be via radiation, which is less efficient.
17. Re:Before anyone else says it... by nschubach · 2011-10-27 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  See class: This is how FUD is spread...
  
  --
  Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
18. Re:Before anyone else says it... by compro01 · 2011-10-27 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  But with just a vacuum, couldn't that heat just go out as energy?
  Technically, you could, but radiation is far less efficient than conduction or convection for transferring heat.
  Power transferred via thermal radiation is proportional to surface area, something a processor has very little of (a square inch or so). Given orbital temperatures, you would be able to radiate away about 0.35 watts, which is decidedly insufficient for most purposes.
  Hence why you need a radiator with loads of surface area and a method of moving the heat from the processor to that radiation, such as a heat pipe.
  
  --
  upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
19. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Richy_T · 2011-10-27 08:46 · Score: 1
  
  That's certainly an irrefutable argument you've got going for you there.
20. Re:Before anyone else says it... by hankwang · 2011-10-27 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  But why couldn't you just expose the processor to the vacuum of space?
  Radiative heat transfer at temperatures around room temperature (300 K) is about 6 W/(m^2K). For a CPU that is 10 cm2 that is allowed to be 50 K above environmental temperature, you would be able to radiate away around 0.3 watts, which is unpractical. If you could expose the CPU to the outside of the satellite, shaded from direct sunlight, it would see the 4 K background temperature in space and could radiate about 600 W/m^2, or about 0.6 W, which is still not much.
  To make things even more complicated, a silicon chip does not only have a maximum temperature, but also a minimum temperature. You don't want the chip to cool down to 4 K when it's idle. I think a typical satellite is constructed as a thermos bottle (the silver or gold-colored foil wrapping that you see in science museums acts as an infrared reflector). I think they use heat pipes to transport excess heat to big radiators on the outside, although I'm not sure of that; maybe the heat needs to stay inside the satellite anyway to prevent it from cooling down too much.
  
  --
  Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
21. Re:Before anyone else says it... by zAPPzAPP · 2011-10-27 08:50 · Score: 1
  
  Vacuum is an excellent heat isolator. It's used in between double glassed windows for example.
  No heat can get through unless it's radiating over the vacuum gap.
22. Re:Before anyone else says it... by TWX · 2011-10-27 08:52 · Score: 0
  
  I understand why you can't have fans in space (lack of air).
  
  Lack of air, or vacuum as it's better called, does not prohibit one from having fans in space, it simply prevents the fan from functioning as designed...
  I mean, you still could launch one into space and spin it, for all the good it'd do you...
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
23. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 08:53 · Score: 1
  
  That was me being skeptical, which if there was truth in it, the originator would follow up with a link or something. Nothing so far.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
24. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  Especially these days.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
25. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  Nothing but the very best for slashdot.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
26. Re:Before anyone else says it... by X0563511 · 2011-10-27 09:06 · Score: 1
  
  No, it doesn't. We don't have a typographical function to denote sarcasm. Sorry, but just making shit up on the spot doesn't work (unless you make it obvious and expand '/s' to '/sarcasm' - which makes the poster just lazy)
  
  --
  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
27. Re:Before anyone else says it... by sohmc · 2011-10-27 09:06 · Score: 1
  
  Ah. That makes sense. I figured heat from the sun makes it here, why doesn't the satelitr "cool off" the same way.
  Then again the sun is frickin' huge.
  If you ever need a deconstruction of Shakespearian plays, you can count on me.
  
  --
  We don't live in Shouldland.
28. Re:Before anyone else says it... by arglebargle_xiv · 2011-10-27 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  fans move. everything u want a satellite not to do is to have an internal momentum which u would need to balance by energy using jets.
  Exactly. What you'd really want then is to take advantage of the temperature difference between the hot satellite and cold space to drive a Stirling engine which would run a heatpump. Problem solved.
29. Re:Before anyone else says it... by hankwang · 2011-10-27 09:13 · Score: 1
  
  Vacuum is an excellent heat isolator. It's used in between double glassed windows for example.
  No, it isn't, at least not for regular cost-sensitive applications; they use argon or air. Vacuum insulated glass exists, but it has a lot of visible spacers between the glass panes to deal with the 10 tonnes per square meter (2000 lbs/sq ft) of atmospheric pressure.
  
  --
  Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
30. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 09:26 · Score: 1
  
  If you ever need a deconstruction of Shakespearian plays, you can count on me.
  It's OK, I've got this one.
  "This play is a play written to appeal to as many people as possible in order to pay Shakespeare's bills and support his family. It was probably written over the course of a few weeks to months and thus we cannot assume that every word in it has the seventeen layers of intrigue and meaning that my professor told me they have. Furthermore, we probably cannot assume Shakespeare really did imbue it with every bizarre thread of subtextual meaning churned out over the intervening 400 years by countless thousands of English scholars and students desperate for a new slant for their book (required by tenure) or thesis (required to make the $100,000 education worthwhile)."
31. Re:Before anyone else says it... by flosofl · 2011-10-27 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  We don't have a typographical function to denote sarcasm.
  Maybe *you* don't, but almost every site with comments (forums, blogs, etc...) /s is pretty recognized as "the preceding is sarcasm and I wrote that so as not to invoke Poe's Law".
  
  I'm serious. /s <---- Ooo, I'm being META!
  
  --
  "This calls for a very special blend of psychology and extreme violence" - Vyvyan "The Young Ones"
32. Re:Before anyone else says it... by blair1q · 2011-10-27 09:36 · Score: 1
  
  Especially since it's a strategy of the GOP to attract the stupid and crazy away from the left.
33. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Lumpy · 2011-10-27 09:42 · Score: 1
  
  The above post brought to you by the american Tea Party.
  
  --
  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
34. Re:Before anyone else says it... by SleazyRidr · 2011-10-27 09:42 · Score: 2
  
  I like using ~ as opposed to /s. Of course no-one understands that either...
  
  --
  Is 1563649 a prime number?
35. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 09:42 · Score: 0
  
  The sun is also 6000 Kelvin at the surface (ignoring the chromosphere). The hotter something is relative to the surroundings (space is about 3K) the more it radiates per unit area. If your satellite electronics gets to 6000K, you have a problem that even the shiniest and heatsink might struggle with, even if it has blue LEDs in it. The sun is made of gases which don't care how hot they are (until they start fusing and making more heat), your processor is made of silicon with nanometre-scale microstructure with a top operating temperature of about 70 Celsius. Space systems probably are hardier, but even so, you'd have a box of slag long before you can radiate on the same scale as the Sun.
36. Re:Before anyone else says it... by X0563511 · 2011-10-27 09:47 · Score: 1
  
  ... first time I've ever seen it, and I hardly live under a rock.
  
  --
  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
37. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  > Why didn't they just use fans? ...
  That is because the fans may act as propellers... and push/pull the satellite away? ...Oh wait,... may be solar wind is free up there so no fan is needed?
38. Re:Before anyone else says it... by geekoid · 2011-10-27 10:12 · Score: 1
  
  You might want to start with the /s at the end.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
39. Re:Before anyone else says it... by beelsebob · 2011-10-27 10:20 · Score: 0
  
  Actually no – water cooling is ultimately air cooling, but in a different place. All water cooling does is move the heat to a big radiator. The reason it's more efficient is because the radiator is bigger.
  This is why things like the Corsair H60/70 are utterly pointless – the radiator is exactly as big as the radiators you get on cheaper air coolers.
40. Re:Before anyone else says it... by zAPPzAPP · 2011-10-27 11:14 · Score: 1
  
  Which means it is used... our lab oven has one.
41. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 11:23 · Score: 1
  
  Not that I've ever heard. The Tea Partiers I know of understand that we got more than TANG from the space program, and are really excited about private space exploration.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
42. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 11:37 · Score: 1
  
  Assume best Robert A. Heinlein voice: Even today people talk about "the bitter cold of outer space" -- but space is a vacuum, and if vacuum were cold, how could a Thermos jug keep hot coffee hot? Vacuum is nothing -- it has no temperature, it just insulates.
  In other words, you lose some heat from radiation, but for substantial cooling you need something, like air for instance, to conduct the heat away.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
43. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 11:50 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, you're following Slashdot from Zuccotti Park?
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
44. Re:Before anyone else says it... by GrumpySteen · 2011-10-27 12:57 · Score: 1
  
  There's your problem. If you lived under a rock (or in your parent's basement), you could spend your entire life online and you'd know these things.
45. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 15:10 · Score: 1
  
  Your car is therefore air cooled. Water pumped through the engine and taken to a radiator. This is where air is either sucked in via fan or forced in while driving.
  This totally blows your mind when you think of air cooled vs water cooled vw bugs.
  You hear that guys.. all cars are air cooled!!
  Dumbass.
46. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-27 16:42 · Score: 1
  
  You are correct. In my hair trigger indignation, I missed that.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
47. Re:Before anyone else says it... by MF4218 · 2011-10-27 16:45 · Score: 1
  
  If you ever need a deconstruction of Shakespearian plays, you can count on me.
  It's OK, I've got this one.
  "This play is a play written to appeal to as many people as possible in order to pay Shakespeare's bills and support his family. It was probably written over the course of a few weeks to months and thus we cannot assume that every word in it has the seventeen layers of intrigue and meaning that my professor told me they have. Furthermore, we probably cannot assume Shakespeare really did imbue it with every bizarre thread of subtextual meaning churned out over the intervening 400 years by countless thousands of English scholars and students desperate for a new slant for their book (required by tenure) or thesis (required to make the $100,000 education worthwhile)."
  I'm sending this to my old English teacher. This is just the sort of point I was trying to get across to her all year. However, due to my age I fought back with my answer to an exam question involving three separate critics - A. C. Bradley, F. R. Leavis... and some other guy. The question was to write an interview involving all three, so I put them at their ages should they have all lived long enough to be in one room together. Bradley changed his mind and fell asleep (being over a hundred years old and very tired), leaving Leavis to complain that the remaining critic was just a young layman with silly new-age ideas.
  On a side-note, English teachers seem to be rather humourless.
48. Re:Before anyone else says it... by shaitand · 2011-10-27 17:57 · Score: 1
  
  Not utterly pointless. It still moves the heat outside the case and disperses it there rather than heating the air inside the case.
49. Re:Before anyone else says it... by shaitand · 2011-10-27 18:04 · Score: 1
  
  suckers! I'll show you. I'll run my fan and laugh all the way to the edges of the galaxy when it creates propulsion by flinging space dust!
50. Re:Before anyone else says it... by shaitand · 2011-10-27 18:13 · Score: 1
  
  Which is it? Do they know we got more than TANG from the space program and want to fund it properly and continue it or do they support pushing "private alternatives" which basically just means cutting funding.
  Being really excited about the "private alternatives" sounds pretty consistent with "The free market certainly would've far surpassed the successes of NASA if not for regulations and taxation." Which really just translates to 'random bs that sounds good' so we should reduce taxes for the wealthy.
51. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Neil+Boekend · 2011-10-27 18:29 · Score: 1
  
  First time I saw it, and I found it a bit redundand. Like a rock thrown into your face with a note on it "This hurts".
  The post was quite clearly sarcastic, if seen in conjunction with it's parent.
  Poe's law, however, is invoked with each sarcastic remark. It even extends beyond /s /sacrcasm and ~, for there will be those who do not understand it or are to angry by the time they reach it (assuming a large enough public).
  Always remember: an infinite publy contains one infinitely stupid person and an infinite amount of morons.
  
  --
  Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
52. Re:Before anyone else says it... by butlerm · 2011-10-27 18:39 · Score: 1
  
  A perfect vacuum is at absolute zero. But the thing is there are no perfect vacuums - electromagnetic radiation for example traverses vacuums rather well and gives an effective equilibrium temperature to the not-so-perfect vacuum itself. Random EM radiation plus cosmic rays and solar wind is what makes the equilibrium temperature of a typical near earth vacuum about 4K instead of 0K.
  If you want to measure this, you put a small thermometer into the appropriate test environment, wait a sufficiently long amount of time until the extra heat radiates away (or is absorbed) and now your thermometer reads the same as the temperature of the environment it is in, even if it is a vacuum. Of course this has to be done in the shade, if you have a bunch of light coming from one direction, that is not really a thermal equilibrium with the random contents of the "vacuum", and the temperature will rise much higher. If it is not random, it is not really thermal, but rather some other form of energy transfer.
  It should be pointed out that the temperature and thermal conductivity are quite different. It is of course harder to heat up an object with poor thermal conductivity, but if you wait long enough both the highly conductive objects (like metal) and poorly conductive objects (like a near vacuum) will indeed reach equilibrium at the same temperature.
53. Re:Before anyone else says it... by beelsebob · 2011-10-27 20:40 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, those kits are designed to mount on the inside of the rear case fan mounting points.
54. Re:Before anyone else says it... by beelsebob · 2011-10-27 20:41 · Score: 1
  
  Uhhh, yes, ultimately, the engine is cooled by air flowing over a large radiator, hence why they have fans to keep the air moving even when you're stopped. As I said above the advantage of water cooling is *that the radiator can be bigger*.
55. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 21:16 · Score: 0
  
  Perhaps you aren't very funny.
56. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-28 00:40 · Score: 0
  
  I'm pretty sure that some of the russian space probes (e.g. Venera) used a bus that was pressurized and may have used fans for cooling.
57. Re:Before anyone else says it... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-28 02:19 · Score: 0
  
  They kept blowing the satellite out of position
58. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-28 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  > It should be pointed out that the temperature and thermal conductivity are quite different. It is of course harder to heat up an object with poor thermal conductivity, but if you wait long enough both the highly conductive objects (like metal) and poorly conductive objects (like a near vacuum) will indeed reach equilibrium at the same temperature.
  That is kind-of what I'm getting at. Vacuum is a poorly conductive object and a heat source, like active electronics in a satellite, release heat poorly in a vacuum. With the electronics shut off, in the shade, with no other energy sources present, no doubt the electronics will eventually get very cold. But while active, dumping the heat can be a problem, looking at the issue from an engineering perspective. This is an issue with an occupied space suit containing a large heat source (IE a human body), which is what Heinlein was addressing. But it's equally an issue for any heat source in a vacuum that must somehow be cooled.
  And so, although intergalactic space may be a fraction of a degree above absolute zero, and space close to the Earth may be about 4 Kelvin, that doesn't help you as much as one might think in cooling things down.
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
59. Re:Before anyone else says it... by cycleflight · 2011-10-28 04:51 · Score: 1
  
  So, you've applied power to a heat pump to extract heat from the cold side (where your CPU is) to the hot side. Now you have a hot side that needs something to do with all that heat, or your system will run away. You cannot cool a spacecraft without off-gassing, evaporating, sublimating, or radiating, period.
  
  --
  "...And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" ~Bob Moawad
60. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-28 05:04 · Score: 1
  
  > Which is it? Do they know we got more than TANG from the space program and want to fund it properly and continue it or do they support pushing "private alternatives" which basically just means cutting funding.
  Which is what? That's a false choice. Being familiar with the benefits of, say, the run-up to the moon shot, is differenting from "want to fund it properly", and "properly" is a whole 'nother discussion. There is a school of thought that the government funded process of deploying a spacecraft has become (for now at least) buried in bureaucracy and fundamentally broken. It used to be it took a big country like the US to put a man on the moon. These days, with the way the process works now, no government on earth could put a man on the moon. The program would inevitably be swamped in cost overruns and eventually canceled. Until that part is fixed, you may still expect smaller projects to get off the launchpad, but government funded manned exploration is dead. Hint: It's not a matter of throwing more money at it. Unless you fix the process, no amount of money will be enough. Bureaucracy and corruption expand in proportion.
  As to the rest, I didn't say any of those other things and I don't know anyone who has. The free market would most definitely not have surpassed NASA's efforts during the moon missions, unless some incredibly efficient, incredible cheap, SciFi McGuffin had been discovered. (If only all those decades of controlled fusion research had paid off. Oh wait... it's the SAME ISSUE.) But it's looking more and more like the moon shot was a one time deal; a time when cultural resolve came together in a relatively young and vibrant country, and the art of sponging off high profile projects wasn't yet perfected. Now, I don't see it happening. So whatever private enterprise is doing, which certainly will not be anything like the Apollo stack, it's probably all we're going to see for now.
  And you know, if private space travel starts as a tourist thing, at least it advances the art. Besides, whom of us wouldn't jump at the chance? The Skyway Soap sweepstakes (geek reference alert) or something like it may be coming to your tv sooner than we realize.
  I'm sorry. I know that's not the answer you want to hear, and truthfully, it doesn't work for me either. But we need to be realistic.
  (I was in the business in the seventies and eighties, and have kept in touch with cohorts since then.)
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
61. Re:Before anyone else says it... by roc97007 · 2011-10-28 05:16 · Score: 1
  
  I realize I'm in danger of sounding like Dr. Sheldon Cooper, but since this is Slashdot, I'll assume you meant that as humor. I've had so many science arguments in the movies newsgroups, that I despair of ever having an intelligent conversation again. My last argument was with someone who insisted that a hole in a spacecraft would logically result in all the air exiting the spacecraft at the speed of sound. "Why the speed of sound? I mean, why that particular speed?" "Because, you know, that's the speed that air travels." "Like, what?? So ok, if it's explosive decompression, the *impulse* caused by the air starting to escape may travel into the chamber at the speed of sound, but the rate of air escaping is defined by fluid... oh never mind. You're a moron."
  
  --
  Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
62. Re:Before anyone else says it... by arglebargle_xiv · 2011-10-28 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  So, you've applied power to a heat pump to extract heat from the cold side (where your CPU is) to the hot side. Now you have a hot side that needs something to do with all that heat, or your system will run away.
  Well you can easily solve that one, you just need to add heat pumps all the way down.
63. Re:Before anyone else says it... by shaitand · 2011-10-28 10:43 · Score: 1
  
  I had a similar one from coolermaster that did mount on the rear case fan mounting points but did so on the outside the case. Not sure about these units specifically.
64. Re:Before anyone else says it... by cycleflight · 2011-10-31 01:16 · Score: 1
  
  lol
  
  --
  "...And who wants to make buttprints in the sands of time?" ~Bob Moawad
Excellent idea for overclocking by royallthefourth · 2011-10-27 07:53 · Score: 1

Just cut the heat pipe open, so that the heat will flow out of it instead of being trapped inside. Now you're getting way more cooling!
1. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 08:13 · Score: 0
  
  Just cut the heat pipe open, so that the heat will flow out of it instead of being trapped inside. Now you're getting way more cooling!
  
  I did that. Tomcat just crashed and and now dmesg is reporting:
  
  5292.082495] CPU1: Core temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled (total events = 43517)
  [ 5292.082525] CPU0: Core temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled (total events = 43518)
  [ 5292.082663] CPU0: Core temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled (total events = 43519)
  [ 5292.082785] CPU0: Core temperature above threshold, cpu clock throttled (total events = 43520)
  
  Help, Slashdot! This is a production box!
2. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by Chris+Mattern · 2011-10-27 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  Nah, that doesn't work, then you've got heat spilling out all over the floor. That's no good.
3. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by WorBlux · 2011-10-27 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  The boundary effect will foil your evil plan.
4. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 08:55 · Score: 0
  
  Quick go to the nearest fan in the box, wrap your lips around the edge of it, then blow as hard as you can. Repeat until you blackout.
  Alternatively you can make a small pile of sticks near the machine, then proceed to burn a unused (virgin) floppy, amidst a pile of sticks.This is both a ritual computing sacrifice for luck, and a way to re-inject the magic smoke causing your machine to generate errors.
5. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by X0563511 · 2011-10-27 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  Well, you've got a heat sink, a heat pipe... where's the heat toilet? It's probably backed up again.
  
  --
  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
6. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by Jeng · 2011-10-27 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  Guess I shouldn't use the floppy disks I have, they all date from around 1998.
  Can you even buy floppies anymore?
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
7. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by md65536 · 2011-10-27 10:14 · Score: 1
  
  Cut a hole in the floor. Let the heat pour through it into the basement.
  You can also set up a heat engine in the basement and use it to power the computer. The more heat you spill, the more power you'll generate, the faster your computer will be. No more electricity bills!
8. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by md65536 · 2011-10-27 10:27 · Score: 1
  
  A better idea is to cut open the processor itself, so that its insides are exposed to the cool air, instead of having all that hot metal covering it.
  Actually, why do they use hot metal for heat sinks anyway??? There must be better metals... most metal things that I know are cold. Something inside the computer must be heating up the metal. If they detach the heatsink from the rest of the computer and thermally insulate it, it should stay a lot cooler and thus remain much more effective.
  If they do all these things -- cut open the heat sink, cut open the processor, insulate the heat sink -- that computer would probably be running pretty close to absolute zero.
9. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by c++0xFF · 2011-10-27 10:37 · Score: 1
  
  True story:
  I once helped a friend with his computer. He had recently built a computer and was trying to overclock it, but the thing was severely overheating constantly, even when not overclocked. He asked me to look at his setup. I expected to see an unplugged fan, or maybe missing thermal paste or something.
  Well, it turned out that he decided to get the most massive heatsink/fan combo he could for his Core i7 (they had just come out, I think) ... and it was just a hair too big for his case.
  He cut off the ends of the heat pipes to get it to fit.
  He said he was surprised the pipe wasn't solid. I'm not sure what he thought about the fluid inside.
10. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by jschen · 2011-10-27 10:52 · Score: 1
  
  That's silly. We all know that heat rises. It's true that you want to cut a hole in the floor, but it's to get the cold air. (Don't worry... that heat engine will still work.) You need another hole in the ceiling for the heat to escape. Straddle the hole and hold your laptop right there, and you'll get the best cooling. If you don't believe me, just try it!
11. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by wierd_w · 2011-10-27 12:49 · Score: 1
  
  You can't just dump the heat into the basement! That's heat pollution!
  You need to dispose of it properly!
12. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by Billlagr · 2011-10-27 13:53 · Score: 1
  
  Virgin floppy hmm...Does size matter? I have a box of virgin 5.25" SS/SD disks, being older and still virgin would they work better than say a 3.5" disk?
13. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by TheGratefulNet · 2011-10-27 15:03 · Score: 1
  
  lesson for today: don't use heatpipes on your laser printer:
  % tail /var/log/messages
  ...
  lp0 on fire
  damn.
  gotta go, now!
  
  --
  
  --
  "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
14. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by nmb3000 · 2011-10-27 16:55 · Score: 1
  
  Tomcat just crashed
  Well, at least it's not all bad!
  
  --
  "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
  /)
15. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by shaitand · 2011-10-27 18:15 · Score: 1
  
  yes, more surface area
16. Re:Excellent idea for overclocking by shaitand · 2011-10-27 18:18 · Score: 1
  
  Do this. Seriously, the EPA is the most evil of all gov't entities when you piss them off. The last thing you want to do is release heat emissions that contribute to global warming.
Love Zalman coolers by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 08:03 · Score: 0

I've been using them in my custom rigs for years. Though they might be the size of a small child, their coolers have never let me down.
1. Re:Love Zalman coolers by MachDelta · 2011-10-27 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  Giant heatsinks are fun. I remember when I first strapped a Scythe Ninja to a Q6600. At first I was worried the case wouldn't close. Then I worried that the sheer mass of the thing (and both 120mm fans I strapped to it) would just pull the processor right out of it's socket. Then I closed the case and started to worry that I would never be able to open the thing again if it did fall off.
  Fortunately, it never did break. And, of course, after about a year I ripped the puny stock HSF off the 8800GT (in the same box), and replaced it with a monster GPU heatsink from Arctic Cooling. Strapped two 120mm fans to that thing also.
  I loved that box. It had lots of everything. Power, airflow, noise, dust... Good times.
2. Re:Love Zalman coolers by Abstrackt · 2011-10-27 08:48 · Score: 1
  
  I've been using them in my custom rigs for years. Though they might be the size of a small child, their coolers have never let me down.
  And as a bonus, unlike a small child they don't get tired from spinning the fans.
  
  --
  They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
Cleaning? by Bigbutt · 2011-10-27 08:06 · Score: 1

It looks like it makes it easier to clean than the Zalman I currently have. The fan is in the center of a loop with the fins between the fan and the pipe so it's a little harder to get in and clean out the misc dust and cat hairs.
[John]

--
Shit better not happen!
1. Re:Cleaning? by davewoods · 2011-10-27 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  Tip: Own less cats?
2. Re:Cleaning? by compro01 · 2011-10-27 08:21 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, but it gets taken to class by that radial design in terms of ability to actually cool stuff.
  
  --
  upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
3. Re:Cleaning? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 09:25 · Score: 0
  
  fewer*
4. Re:Cleaning? by Baloroth · 2011-10-27 09:42 · Score: 1
  
  You never know. Maybe he owns non-quantum cats.
  
  --
  "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
5. Re:Cleaning? by Anomalyst · 2011-10-28 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  misc dust and cat hairs.
  Perhaps categorized dust and cat hairs (maybe by length) would help?
  
  --
  There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
Gandalf disapproves by washort · 2011-10-27 08:34 · Score: 0

"He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
1. Re:Gandalf disapproves by ThorGod · 2011-10-27 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  "He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
  Gandalf lived in a land of make believe with faeries and hobbits. He's off the path of reality!
  
  --
  PS: I don't reply to ACs.
2. Re:Gandalf disapproves by gauntletguy · 2011-10-27 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  obviously gandalf didn't know any hackers
3. Re:Gandalf disapproves by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 09:16 · Score: 0
  
  ...unless you can just buy another one.
4. Re:Gandalf disapproves by element-o.p. · 2011-10-27 09:25 · Score: 2
  
  These guys might take exception to Gandalf's advice :)
  
  (completely disregarding the fact that the guy in TFA did, in fact, know what the thing was; he just wanted to find out what made it tick)
  
  --
  MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
Where's that receipt? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 08:35 · Score: 0

Do you think this will void the warranty?
Mercury by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 09:24 · Score: 0

Too bad liquid mercury is so poisonous and has been banned. Simply filling those hollow heat pipes with it would've made for pretty good heat conduction.
1. Re:Mercury by Jeng · 2011-10-27 09:34 · Score: 1
  
  Wouldn't the mercury expand and pop the heatpipe?
  
  --
  Don't know something? Look it up. Still don't know? Then ask.
2. Re:Mercury by Khyber · 2011-10-27 09:46 · Score: 2
  
  Mercury has SHIT thermal conductivity, what are you talking about?
  http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mercury-d_1002.html
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
3. Re:Mercury by Grog6 · 2011-10-27 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  Hey, sodium and potassium are only 60-70ish and they used those to make liquid nuclear reactors.
  Mercury is still way better than air...
  However, water is bad enough; how bad is it going to be when the mercury leaks out all over the mobo? :)
  let alone sodium... :>
  
  --
  Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
Where's the juice? by bromoseltzer · 2011-10-27 09:24 · Score: 2

There's a working fluid there somewhere, it must have come out, and it might be toxic. Or it might give you a high. The review is silent on this.

--
Fiat Lux.
1. Re:Where's the juice? by Tjp($)pjT · 2011-10-27 10:51 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  The working fluid is often water. Sometimes ammonia but usually not for electronics. It is under lower pressure so that its boiling point is near the working temperature of the device. Boils off or evaporates, condenses in the cold side of the heat exchanger, then capillary action sucks it back faster than it would otherwise travel to the hot side. My favorite heat pipe was a flat grill ... awesomely uniform temperatures. Not sure what the working fluid was. Other ways besides fans are to immerse the cold side heat exchanger into more water at normal pressures and that can have even more surface area to cool the reservoir making an effective heatsink area that is HUGE...
  
  --
  - Tjp
  I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!
2. Re:Where's the juice? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 13:43 · Score: 0
  
  Why exactly is a fluid necessary? I don't think there is a fluid.
3. Re:Where's the juice? by Christian+Smith · 2011-10-27 13:57 · Score: 1
  
  Or it might just be water.
4. Re:Where's the juice? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 14:12 · Score: 0
  
  Exotic coolers use things like ammonia. I believe most consumer coolers just use water.
5. Re:Where's the juice? by bromoseltzer · 2011-10-27 15:11 · Score: 1
  
  Why exactly is a fluid necessary? I don't think there is a fluid.
  Heat pipes work by evaporating a liquid at the hot end and condensing it at the cold end.. The fancy wicking stuff is to persuade the liquid to move back to the hot place to get evaporated again. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe .
  
  --
  Fiat Lux.
6. Re:Where's the juice? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-28 01:59 · Score: 0
  
  I thought they used alcohol?
7. Re:Where's the juice? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-31 08:31 · Score: 0
  
  -1 for reading comprehension. They did mention it, I can't be bothered to go back and find the quote but they said something like you may be wondering about the liquid in the pipe, not much is used, sometimes it is ammonia, but often it is water, there was no smell of ammonia or other chemicals when they cut the pipe open, so they assume it was water. Or at least I think that was the gist of what they said, go and read TFA again yourself if you actually care.
Re:Yeah yeah by GameboyRMH · 2011-10-27 09:47 · Score: 1

Somebody ask for a 3D printed computer?
http://hackaday.com/2011/10/27/3d-printed-electromechanical-computer/

--
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
heatsinks... by Grog6 · 2011-10-27 10:43 · Score: 1

No, heatsinks can either make you able to go fanless, or go to overclock heaven, your choice. :)
Speaker wire, however, is worth what you can get someone to pay for it, apparently.
I have actually had someone show me a car stereo system that he believed sounded better with 12awg stranded silver speaker wires. I wish I'd sold it to him, lol.
I'm an Analog Engineer, and listen mostly to mp3s from a sound card. Zip cord will work just fine... :)

--
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
1. Re:heatsinks... by adolf · 2011-10-27 13:30 · Score: 1
  
  Depends on the zip cord. I've had common, clear vinyl-insulated zip cord turn all gross and corroded inside down the entire length, and while that may not actually affect things much, it does make good (clean) connections rather difficult to accomplish.
  I use direct-burial low-voltage lighting cable a lot, these days. It's cheap, easy to find, heavily insulated (durable), has a high strand count (ie: flexible), is UV resistant, and it's always been bright and shiny when I cut into it. Oh, and it's black by default, as God intended wires to be. :)
  But for very high-power stuff, very long runs, or stage use, there are far better options. (None of which, obviously, are made from silver...)
  
  --
  Kid-proof tablet..
2. Re:heatsinks... by Deus.1.01 · 2011-10-27 21:23 · Score: 1
  
  I'm a digital engineer....I made a mint selling gold-drawn RJ-45 cables to audiophiles.
  
  --
  My -1 Troll is actually a +1 funny. And my -1 flame is actually a +1 insightfull.
3. Re:heatsinks... by Tubal-Cain · 2011-10-28 22:06 · Score: 1
  
  The smart engineer method, eh?
Interesting sig... by Grog6 · 2011-10-27 10:44 · Score: 1

"LostCluster as of 10/27/11 is being held in captivity involuntarily by Dr. McGarry of Worcester State Hospital."
So, is it for you or for us?

--
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
Why? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 10:46 · Score: 0

I'm trying not to be snarky here, but so long as your processor stays below the maximum operating temperature why does it matter what temperature it's operating at? Why spend $80 on a heat sink when the one from the manufacturer ought to work fine?
1. Re:Why? by nabsltd · 2011-10-27 15:11 · Score: 1
  
  Because running a device at 40-50 degrees Celsius below the Tmax will make it last longer than running it at 10 degrees below the Tmax. Heat eventually breaks down modern semiconductors.
  Also, you want to avoid thermal processor throttling, which does not occur at an exact temperature. Giving yourself a lot of margin for error avoids that.
  Last, you can get close to the same amount of cooling for about $40, which I consider a reasonable investment to help extend the life of a $300-600 processor.
2. Re:Why? by dam.capsule.org · 2011-10-28 02:35 · Score: 1
  
  It allows using a bigger fan rotating slower which greatly reduce noise.
  
  --
  What sig ?
Blue Smoke by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 10:46 · Score: 0

You let the Heat Sink Faeries out!
But how does it compare to a solid heatpipe? by Volund · 2011-10-27 11:12 · Score: 1

Does this hollow copper pipe, with grooved edges coated with sintered copper, actually conduct heat better than a solid copper pipe? Or transfer it to the fins better? Or is it simply a cost-cutting measure?
1. Re:But how does it compare to a solid heatpipe? by AaronW · 2011-10-27 12:16 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  They work much better. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe
  -Aaron
  
  --
  This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
2. Re:But how does it compare to a solid heatpipe? by Volund · 2011-10-27 12:40 · Score: 1
  
  Ahh, I didn't realize that's what a heatpipe was. I always thought that kind of cooling was called "phase change" cooling. Thank you for for shedding light on the darkness of my ignorance. :) And d'oh to me for not thinking to consult the oracle before I posted that comment.
cooling speed by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 14:31 · Score: 0

The problem I've run into sooner is not how good a heatsink is, but how fast can it take heat?
you wouldn't believe the speed amd x2 64's go up in temperature.... i really mean it, less than 20 seconds from 60 celcius to 110 celcius, and that's it until it locks up and freezes!
I was using a scythe ShurikeN heatsink and kept trying over and over again to put it on the CPU right, and no matter what when running a CPU benchmark I had about 10 seconds until I hit 110 degrees. No matter how many ways I pushed it on harder or smudged the thermal paste.
Then I went out and bought a CPU Cooler 101 and it got ALOT better... now it hits 80 celcius at the most then hovers around there going up and down.
it really matters the speed it can take sudden heat away.
1. Re:cooling speed by Anonymous Coward · 2011-10-27 15:21 · Score: 0
  
  OMG 80c??
  Your doing it wrong.