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KDE 3.5 Fork Trinity Releases First Major Update
First time accepted submitter Z_God writes "Disappointed with KDE 4's performance and other shortcomings, Timothy Pearson continued KDE 3.5 development under the name Trinity. Tuesday the first major update of the Trinity Desktop Environment was released providing an alternative upgrade path for KDE users that do not feel comfortable with KDE 4. The Trinity Desktop Environment should provide a fast and familiar experience for all users expecting a traditional desktop environment. Packages are available for Debian, Ubuntu and Fedora from the Trinity project site."
Long live KDE 3.5. I love it.
I might give this a try. One of the reasons I stopped using KDE was because it was painfully slow on my poor laptop.
I assume QT 3.x is still required. While it's technically Free software and all that, the subsequent additional freeing (LGPL) of QT 4.x in my mind makes it a lot more relevant. If that's the case, is there hope that this team would attempt to port Trinity to QT 4 in the future? Now THAT would really turn heads, at least in my opinion. I'd use it in a heartbeat.
Why do you hate freedom? A major point of open source is so that if you're dissatisfied with the direction a vendor goes, you can fork and maintain locally. That's what's going on here. You don't have to fucking use it, jerk.
Someone please fork GNOME 2 and continue it. GNOME 3 and Unity are both unusable, while GNOME 2 rocks.
Because some people have trouble letting go...
I'm sure it's a wonderful set (although a bit slow getting to the page) but there has been so much improvement in the toolkits. Why do we have to fight change every step of the way?
One can still use the behind the scenes improvements in QT while maintaining a usable GUI.
Kudos to the trinity developers. I just whish some developers would fork Gnome 2 and give the kiss of death to the Gnome 3 project.
...to get even earlier versions :P
For some reason that I can only attribute to nostalgia, I've always wanted to use KDE 1 and KDE 2.
Great news about KDE3.5.
Now could we get a continuation of Gnome2?
We could call it Old Gnome Users of America.
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I hate to reply to myself, but it looks like it was started but stalled due to QT 4 bugs and slowness. I found this through the slashdotted project roadmap. Is it really that much worse? Can anyone speak to this?
Why do we have to fight change every step of the way?
Because change is NOT always good.
The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop. It's supposed to take priority. I have never experienced the level of outright frustration as when the KDE Plasma Weather Widget got stuck in a constant crash-restart loop and the KDE Crash Reporter burnt up all my RAM (in addition to stealing focus constantly.) In KDE 3.5 I could've simply killed the widget process. But in KDE4, no, I can;t, because killing the widget process wipes out my launcher, my desktop icons, my taskbar - all the critical system components I need to even do so much as load a damn terminal to kill the widget. Yes, I know, Ctrl-Alt-F2, but having to deal with that in the first place is just the solution that proves there's a problem.
I now run GNOME2. I tried GNOME3, Unity, and even KDE4. And I mean for 2-3 weeks each. I couldn't stand any of them. It's not that each has their little annoyances. I mean, GNOME2 is slap full of those as well. Rather, my issue with the latest generation of WMs is simply that they're growing more and more devoid of choice. Want a launcher on the left side? Good luck! Maybe loading another separate desktop widget system? Why would you want that?! Every little thing I try to do, these new WMs tell me "I can't do that." I'm not using GNOME2 because I love the eye candy (I prefer the LOOK of GNOME3, actually.) I'm using it because every time I want to do something that's not the default, GNOME2 lets me do it. It's the "have it your way" WM. Nothing in the latest generation actually offers that level of freedom-as-in-choice.
When the taskbar and program launcher (preferably a menu) in KDE4 is its own separate process, THEN I'll try it again. Critical system components should NOT be freaking widgets! That is dumb. And I will not upgrade to "dumber and choice-less" just because it looks pretty, else I could just go get a Mac.
Why do we have to fight change every step of the way?
Because not all change is good?
Trinity is a good name for it, because the server got nuked!
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Oh yeah, well I'm going to fork Trinity to make it more like KDE 4!
Nepomuk must be indexing the files on his server right now.
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I'm not opposed to change, but I invariably want that change to be an improvement. I don't use KDE, but I tried using Unity. It frustrated me at every step. Every time I wanted to do something, I found it either couldn't be done, or that I had to look for nasty workarounds. After a whole hour, I gave up.
...and stop posting irrelevant stories like this on the front page. KDE 4.0 was horrible, yes, but it's not like KDE 4 development was halted. The latest release is 4.7 and it's much more stable and feature rich than 3.5 ever was.
Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
Gnome 2 is the root of the problem, actually. Gnome 3 is just following the (flawed) decisions and judgements that lead to Gnome 2 to their logical conclusions. If you really want a useable Gnome you need to go back to Tranquilty and fork from there.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
That's KDE, and what's with Gnome? Gnome3 consists nearly solely of regressions, there's barely any functionality left. The primary mode, "gnome-shell" is beyond words, acting as everyone has fat fingers on a 3'' touchscreen, combining worst ideas of iPhone and Windows Phone ("you can't run a program more than once", etc). The secondary mode, "gnome-fallback" is a bad joke too -- no usable panel, no desktop, no messing with the menu (try right clicking... try dragging...). Individual programs are no better: for example, someone had the brilliant idea of taking away the tray mode from RhythmBox. Oh, and network-manager (AKA "no network more complex than single DHCP") is a hard dependency.
There is a fork attempt called "Mate" but it doesn't look that promising yet. I wonder whether it's a matter of time, or if it's time to migrate to XFCE or something. As Linus and ESR said, XFCE feels like a big step back.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
This is Trinty's third release since the project started, not its first.
KDE 4.7 is actually quite nice.
He who has no
Is "Trinity" a deliberate allusion to "Unity"?
Good for you? Not everyone agrees, though.
The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop. It's supposed to take priority.
And by "the desktop" you probably mean "a folder". I don't know about you, but my real wooden desktop doesn't look like a folder at all. Instead, it's filled with post-it notes, pencils, sometimes a notebook, a computer, a phone, a lamp and a Rubik cube. In short, it's filled with gadgets.
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Sure it is. It still is half as responsive as 3 was for me (on older hardware, even), feels clunky and unpolished, and still has not returned some of the features I used KDE 3 for. KDE 4 is a step backwards towards Windows, not a step forward, and I am certain that KDE 5 will be worse.
Great Intellect...
WM
I think you mean DE. WMs these days are very flexible.
I love that users can actually continue using their loving software, even if corporation or community what is responsible maintaining the software is heading own direction.
I love KDE4 more than KDE 3.5 and that is because the speed and simplicity with great amount of features and now since 4.7 there is more than what 3.5 had. I have even ran 4.7 on old AMD Athlon 1800Mhz, 1 Gigabyte RAM with Nvidia GT4xxx and it just worked fine without problems. The HDD was bottleneck and when I tried SSD on it by swapping such to it with IDE adapter it just blow my mind out how fast KDE 4.7 has come from 4.0-4.2 versions.
People still don't like to give a change for newer KDE but it is their miss. They have rights to stick with KDE 3.5 if they want but I dont see a point on it so much.
I hope the Trinity 3.5 will get new ideas and features what can be added later then to 4.x or 5.x series if they are great and innovative.
KDE4 is miles ahead of KDE3. Yes it had issues at launch, but that was years ago. I guess the beauty of free software is people can cling to things if they choose. Doesn't mean I can't choose to think it's retarded.
So is this the release schedule? Updates every 5 years? Go for it...
So you probably know this already, but for the benefit of similarly-minded but less-knowledgeable readers, there are many desktop environments for Linux -- open source breeds choice, after all.
We're mostly a KDE shop where I work, but there are users using xfce, fvwm, and xmonad here, and one who swears by gnome, but launches it from KDM, because our system has its big warning banner set up for KDM but not GDM or XDM.
So if they end-of-life gnome2 out from under you, you still have options.
2*3*3*3*3*11*251
No, killing the plasma-desktop process does not kill all your chance to start a terminal: krunner is a separate process, so alt-f2 will give you the minicli and you can start anything you want.
It may be filled with gadgets, but it doesnt crash and burn just because a pencil tip gets broken off.
"The Desktop" is and has always been nothing but a very poor metaphor anyway. Get your damn desktop off my root window! ;)
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
So please explain WHY in godsname KDE insists on copying a movie file from a samba share before playing it in a capable player? That is just plain annoying on small files but when you are talking about 20gb files it is just plain silly. This kind of thing is so fucking basic and since the same player can just play from the share with other desktops it is a complete and utter failure on the KDE team to prioritize on basic functionality over bling.
KDE dropped the ball. Polishing a turned over several releases so it shines a bit more still means you got a turd.
You are talking like a stockholm beating, believing your captor is becoming your friend because the beatings have gotten slightly less regular.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
This is one of the best things about OSS. Anyone can fork and when there is a strong need, the fork will happen.
I'm spoilt for choice
I pitty the slaves of a their Master's view of computing (yes, fanboys, I mean you)
metageek
Why do you hate freedom? A major point of open source is so that if you're dissatisfied with the direction a vendor goes, you can fork and maintain locally. That's what's going on here. You don't have to fucking use it, jerk.
Uhh... seems clear he doesn't use it.
...disqualifies you as a technical reviewer. Sorry. KDE isn't bad just because you can't get it to work with your Windows compatibility network setup.
Computer simulation made easy -- LibGeoDecomp
One of the worst trends in computing is trying to make real-world analogies to everything. Who cares what the real top of your desk looks like? Your desk is not a personal computer, and vice versa.
>The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop
Former OS/2 user here.
The Desktop should be an object just like any other object in the environment.
I take umbrage with your insistence that the root window is somehow special.
Also, your rant is otherwise so full of holes I will stop there since I would wind up writing a dissertation.
--
BMO - former KDE4 hater.
Of course, there's also the group that wants to run it on 6+ year old hardware
This is posted from a laptop which is 8 years old, buddy. It runs Lubuntu 10.04 LTS, and rocks with it (LXDE). It was starting to suck a bit with Ubuntu 10.04 (Gnome 2) and with PCLinuxOS 2009 (KDE 3.something), but LXDE purged the bloat and revived the hardware.
other OSes like Windows 7 likely won't work well on very old hardware either.
In what way is that relevant? The laptop of which I spoke came with original XP (pre SP1), which ran OK on it, but sucked in so many ways (starting with the applications). I can't imagine running Win7 on it; probably more like staggering or slithering than running, actually.
So why don't I get a new laptop? Easy: this one has a nice 17" 1920x1200 display. All the new models (even from the same vendor) have nothing better than a shortscreen 1920x1080, if they even have that. The extra 120 vertical pixels are valuable.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Do any of you happen to know if KAudio Creator still works in Trinity? I've yet to find a CD ripper that actually works anywhere near as well as KAudio Creator for ripping tons of disk at a time, I open an instance for each drive and it works beautifully. All the rest of the rippers I've used are buggy as hell or more complicated than I want to deal with for the size of collection I have to rip (what's with K3B skipping the first track? It's been a known bug for a long time). I might throw Trinity on the system just for that if it's still around.
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i'd LOVE to fork Trinity!
*ducks*
And that's fine. Some people hate Gnome 3, while I happen to like it. I have no objection to anyone that wants to use older stuff, or new forks of older stuff.
But as is usually the case, the shouting is largely unidirectional. "Zomg, new shit sucks, it's totally unusable, I'm never going to use this, you're all jerks if you like it, get off my lawn."
It's a grating and juvenile process. Every time something gets an overhaul, everyone screams that "new isn't better", as if that's insightful. We all know that, and they are trying to make something better. If something is genuinely broken, file a bug report. If you just don't like it, that's fine too. There's no reason we can't be civil about it.
After my release-day copy of KDE 3.5 just finished compiling, too! Of all the luck...
He acknowledged that, had you cared to read a few more sentences before jumping to reply.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
I can't wait to try it! Thanks for the great work Trinity team!
No, he did not. He talked about ctrl-alt-f2, which goes to a text console, not alt-f2, which opens krunner, aka the minicli, right inside the X11 session. You'd realized that, had you cared to read both his and my post before jumping to reply. Toodle-pip.
Is the Trinity version# going to be 3.5, or 1.0, or something else? How do they plan to increment it? As for the name, I thought that a name like QDE (for Qt based DE) would have been more suggestive.
Will Trinity use the latest version of Konqueror as its default browser, instead of the still unready Rekonq? And will they use the most updated versions of KOffice and other K apps? I hope they don't start forking all those apps, but do what they can to get them running on Trinity. Oh, and hope that KPackage is a lot better.
When KDE 5 is out, it'll be running on Wayland. If Trinity doesn't merge back, I hope that they too take advantage of Wayland.
just say'en (or repeating) " if it ain't broke don't fix it " seems how i keep hearing that i not understand it. you know becaus of the kde3 - kde4 shinangians. ( i still have debian on all my machines because of it )
The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop. It's supposed to take priority.
Then why you are using a GNOME 2.x where desktop is actually a Nautilus?
You did know that Nautilus is used to draw the desktop? Right?
And you did know that you can run just KWin as it is the window manager and you dont need to load a shell, the plasma? Right?
Like what features you are waiting/missing?
I'd use Gnome 1 if it wasn't for all the crazy eyecandy. It's just unusable with all that dazzle. I switched to X without the stupid window manager/de crap.
Haven't looked forward since.
I think that they've continued the KDE 3.5.x versions, IIRC this was marked 3.5.13 (but since link is slashdotted, can't be sure).
I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
Why do we have to fight change every step of the way?
Because not all change is progress.
I'm one of those people who absolutely despise KDE4. I used several versions and then two years ago, I discovered Trinity KDE. I think it's wonderful. If not for Trinity KDE, I would have gone with xfce or something else, but I lost all interest in KDE with the 4.x series.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
For those not in the know, could someone tell us what the differences are between KDE 3.5, KDE 4 and Trinity? How is this going to affect for example someone who comes from a Gnome or Windows background who maybe wants to switch?
nothing wrong with fighting BAD change.
I'm glad Gnome3 is working for you.
From my perspective, what's juvenile is: Desktop developers are paid by companies (Redhat, Novell, etc.) that get paid by companies that do actual work. Those developers then waste that money coming up with Fischer-Price interfaces that hinder people in doing real work as opposed to maybe opening up a single instance of Firefox for 30min, and then shutting down the computer. (Oops, you can't even shut down the computer in Gnome3 anymore, they took that option away.)
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then do with your feelings like you suggest they do with their software. getting upset at others behavior in this case is pretty emo. you can't expect them not to express this dissatisfaction with the new software while you readily express yours about their expression.
I can understand getting upset when what's being touted as a replacement for an environment you depend on is complete crap. While there is nothing wrong with removing unneeded complexity to gain simplicity, today's trend in software (and gui) design is to eschew any capability/flexibility that prevents it from being simple.
Your response to me in this thread twice is somewhat interesting.
My points have been that 1) it's personal preference (which you agreed with me on) and 2) KDE 4 has improved. So you imply you don't agree with me, agree with me in one response, and then you continue to seem intent on arguing what, exactly?
I thought about as much. Your responses to other posters resort to ad hominem attacks, name calling, and straw men. I suspect you're perhaps a little too emotionally involved in this debate, even though most of the people (like myself) don't really care a great deal.
Yes, I prefer KDE. It works great for me. You don't like it: That's fantastic! It's great that we have different tastes and preferences, which you have agreed to here. Yet twice you've replied to me with relatively negative responses that are mostly meaningless. To think that I was going to write a reply to the comment I cited in that link (#37924856) praising you for agreeing with my sentiment until I realized that your motives were simply to attack myself and others.
It's a shame.
He who has no
I wish my desktop was a nautilus :)
Unfortunately they don't live long above their normal depths, shorter still out of water...
Sent from my PDP-11
I'm running Gnome 3 on an ~7 (iirc) year old machine and it runs just fine. Maybe it's too much for anything older than that... I haven't tried. Oh, and while you probably don't really care, shutdown still works fine.
As for the rest, that's the kind of inflammatory stuff I'm talking about. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean they're "juvenile". They're trying to do something better, and many of us feel that they have. Apparently that includes the people that sign checks.
So as I said before, go ahead and use something else. Nobody is going to stop you, or judge you. Though it would be cool if you didn't say things that aren't true.
Emo? I've been called a few things, but that one's a first.
So I guess I should clarify... I don't get suicidal or otherwise overly emotional when people piss and moan. Not sure where that came from. It's just the routine we go through every time someone overhauls something.
Constructive criticism is good. Bug reports are good. Even just disliking something is fine (I used to be a kde guy). But the childish tantrums, hateful nonsense and false accusations are both boring and worthless. Some people just don't behave like rational adults, and it's a problem.
So, cranky developer-type that doesn't tolerate wasteful noise drowning out constructive conversation very well? Maybe. Emo... not so much.
I apologize if Gnome has now added back the shutdown option to the normal user menu.
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Bang on. KDE 4.0 was a mess, and virtually everyone bases their opinion of KDE4 on the early versions. KDE 4.7.2 and up is pretty sweet. It works, and it works very very well, on all the hardware I've thrown it at. Stepping back to KDE3.5 is painful.. VERY painful now. It's missing so much. It's like trying to use Windows 3.1.
That said, Trinity is a good idea - Linux is about providing people with options. If people prefer to stick with something that is unsupported and deprecated by upstream, then they can.. they have to take the responsibility upon themselves to do so, but no one can stop them... or should stop them.
XFCE provides a traditional desktop GUI in the "spirit" of windows 2000 or xp. There is no missing functionality in that respect. If a traditional desktop environment is what you want, then XFCE does everything that KDE 4 or Gnome 3 does. Only faster and more responsively. As a long-time KDE 3 user who tried to adapt to KDE 4 and failed (several times), I can honestly say that XFCE is a full and mature replacement. I can't speak for xubuntu, but I can tell you that XFCE on arch linux is rock solid stable and fast.
Damn right. The purpose of the root window is to provide something to click on to display the main menu, and somewhere to place iconified windows. Kids these days with their "shortcut icons" and "widgets" ...