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French Power Company Fined For Hacking Greenpeace
judgecorp writes "Electricite de France (EDF) which uses nuclear reactors to generate the majority of France's electricity, has been found guilty of hacking into Greenpeace computers in 2006. EDF has been fined fined €1.5 million and ordered to pay Greenpeace a further half a million euros, for what the judge described as an act of 'industrial scale espionage.'"
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So far from my observation if a private individual hacks, the private individual risks going to prison.
Whereas if a corporation does it there's no prison time involved for any of the people involved.
I think prison time would discourage both private individuals and individuals acting on behalf of corporations.
What you describe is an unfair system: different parties play by different rules based on a factor of no relevance to the matter at hand.
In a fair system, everyone plays by the same rules, and that's the type of system I'm talking about here.
Yea, a nuclear reactor costs what? tens of billions to build?
Two million would be nothing, probably came out of the "Settlement fund".
if corporations 'are people' then they should GO TO JAIL like people when caught breaking the law.
it would be fun as hell to design what it means to be a corp 'in prison'. wouldn't it be fun?? imagine how we could stick it, back, to all the fucked up corps who have gotton away with bloody murder (or nearly so) over the years.
the thing is, justice is owned by the state and the state is now owned by corps. don't expect ANY justice toward corps. not until after some revolution (...) comes, anyway.
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
quite OT but slightly humorous: if you are an adult and pay to have sex with an adult, that's a crime.
EXCEPT when you are a corporation and are filming it. then its 100% perfectly legal.
corps have more rights than people. they actually do.
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"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
How is the degree to which the penalty discourages the behavior not relevant?
Your claim of its irrelevance is wrong.
But it's not fair to fine a citizen the same as a corporation. You could empty my bank accounts, and the corp wouldn't even notice that amount of money. So you can ruin a persons life, or fine a company effectively nothing, with the same dollar value. Fine me 10,000$, you better fine Exxon 25+ billion.
Consider what would happen if a foreign power tried the same thing in the USA today.
...in Baltimore Harbor. The Rainbow Warrior wasn't blown up at sea; this occurred in harbor in the largest city in the country, with a lot of other completely unrelated ships and their personnel in the vicinity.
Really?
Okay I am no fan of Geenpeace at all. I do not think their tactics and often their goals are correct.
However...
EDF is a heavily regulated utility company that is responsible for the running of nuclear facilites. They should without a doubt be held to an extremely high standard when it comes to following laws and regulations.
Greenpeace is a bunch of hippies that think they are doing good. Just as their is no room for Police officers and the military to be allowed to commit institutional acts of civil disobedience there can be no room for EDF to do the same.
Plus I am sure that Greenpeace members have spent the night in jail in the past and will again.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
From your wikipedia reference:
"It infamously failed in 1975, causing more casualties than any other dam failure in history, and was subsequently rebuilt."
I don't see them rebuilding Fukushima or Chernobyl anytime soon...
I didn't say other power sources don't have failure issues, I said other power sources don't render the surrounding 100 square miles uninhabitable for decades.
care to try again?
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people
There was nothing wrong with what he said. He didn't say they were borrowing from the government, he said that they could borrow (from private banks) at government rates.
The reason that governments get much lower rates is that they are very unlikely to default on their loans so there is much less risk and cost involved in loaning them money. That means that the interest rate they charge can be very low. If you can get the government credit "blanket" extended over you, then the banks can consider your loan to be just as safe as a government one and give you the same deal.
So he was right, a loan guarantee is NOT a subsidy, unless there is a bankruptcy. It makes it less expensive to build a reactor, but that money does not come from the government. I was also loaned money for my education that was a federal student loan. Since the government was on the hook for the money, I got a low interest rate, but the government did not pay one cent for my education loans.
I know this is Slashdot, but the French contributing to the success of the American Revolution was 100% done out of self-interest. The Bourbons loved democracy in the same way Americans loved radical Islam when we gave Afghanistan freedom fighters Stingers to shoot down Russian helicopters. And it came back and bit them in the tail in a much more dramatic and bloody way.
Aren't the citizens getting fined more than Corps?
So "Industrial Espionage" is only worth a penalty of a million or two but Anonymous hackers are Terrorists for Life?
Remember that Corporations are People? How did Corps manage to NOT get on the Terrorist Lists?!
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Quite frankly, passing on costs of violations should be illegal. The company is the one that should have to suffer, not the consumer.
I think you're missing the point: corporations are people *when it suits them*
Likewise, the US had no interest in becoming involved in WWII until Pearl Harbour (or at least until Hitler declared war on the USA four days later) - over 2 years since the start of the war in Europe. Don't get me wrong, I can see why, after the loss of 110,000 soldiers in WWI.
It's common for some Americans to go on about how we'd all be speaking German if it wasn't for them, so I think it's only fair for them to be reminded that it's quite possible they'd still be speaking the Queen's English and drinking warm beer if it weren't for the French.
Like Britain petitioning the USA to enter WWII, Benjamin Franklin actively petitioned for support in France in 1776 - the only difference was that the French covertly entered the American War of Independence before formally recognising the USA two years later - causing Britain to declare war on France.
Exactly how many people die from solar panels simply sitting on a roof? Does your nuclear figure include the construction costs of the plants?
Most of the death toll from nuclear power since the adoption of the containment vessel probably comes from mining, not construction. I'm willing to bet the same for other forms of generation, except for fossil fuels and hydroelectric. Getting the raw materials out of the ground is a labor intensive process requiring heavy machinery and risky setups, and lives are invariably lost or shortened more so than in normal construction. In China alone, between 5,000 and 20,000 people die each year from mining accidents.
It has been 25 years since a nuclear disaster occured that resulted in the loss of human lives, 64 lives directly, according to UNSCEAR but up to 4,000 according to the World Health Organization when shortened lives are also accounted for. That means that since Chernobyl, the death toll from mining supercedes the nuclear death toll by between 30 and 7800 times over depending on who you trust. Keep in mind, this is for CHINA ALONE, and is assuming mining in China was NOT more dangerous 25 years ago.
Now lets take into account that Chernobyl implemented a design created primarily for weapons production, had no containment vessel, and was being run by a communist regime on the brink of collapse. The scale of melt-down that occured there would be near-impossible for a gifted group of well-funded terrorist engineers to cause in a modern reactor with containment. The worst nature has thrown at an ill-prepared plant (read: Fukushima) still resulted in no deaths.
So here would be my question: which energy source requires the most mined materials per TW. Honestly, I don't know. But my suspicions are that nuclear would be near the bottom of that list.
Wind ditto. It just sits there spinning and as long as you aren't within a few hundred yards on a *very* windy day...zero casualties.
As long as [ this | that ]. If you are going to hold nuclear to these extreme corner cases, please hold all other energy generation techniques to equally high standards.
If you are going to hold nuclear to these extreme corner cases, please hold all other energy generation techniques to equally high standards.
I hold them to extreme corner cases as commensurate with the risk of what happens when those conditions manifest themselves.
Nuclear simply has consequences that no other power source does. In each and every other case I can quite safely walk the grounds of a failed power plant the very day after the accident. You simply can't do that with nuclear when it goes tits up.
People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people