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Android Ice Cream Sandwich Source Released

grcumb writes "Looks like the folks at Google have made good on their promise to release the Android 4.0 source code. Android software engineer Jean-Baptiste Queru writes: 'Hi! We just released a bit of code we thought this group might be interested in. Over at our Android Open-Source Project git servers, the source code for Android version 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) is now available. ... This is actually the source code for version 4.0.1 of Android, which is the specific version that will ship on the Galaxy Nexus, the first Android 4.0 device. In the source tree, you will find a device build target named "full_maguro" that you can use to build a system image for Galaxy Nexus. Build configurations for other devices will come later.' " Once nice side-effect of this is that the revision history for the non-free Honeycomb series is also available, albeit without any release tags.

285 comments

  1. first post released by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    google: a little bit less evil.

    1. Re:first post released by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      google: a little bit less evil.

      No. I'm positive I read on slashdot how they are certainly Evil, and that they are intentionally with-holding the source for Sandwich as part of their Master Plan to take over the Galaxy and rule as Puppets of their Illuminati Masters.

      So this is all obviously just more New World Order propaganda, designed to keep us quiet and submissive while they, and their Secret Sandwich Source, put their Military-Industrial Complex into action in order to Realize their Imperialist Capitalist Expansionist Empire.

    2. Re:first post released by BatGnat · · Score: 1

      I cant wait for them to take over my Galaxy (i9000)....

  2. Good to see... by Algae_94 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    that Google has followed through on releasing the source code. This is awesome news after Honeycomb went MIA as far as source release.

    1. Re:Good to see... by Hazel+Bergeron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Chris Rock had a routine. He said some—too many of our men, they're proud, they brag about doing things they're supposed to do. They say 'Well, I- I'm not in jail.' Well you're not supposed to be in jail!

    2. Re:Good to see... by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Huh? Google was supposed to release source code for Android? Pretty sure that counts as extra.

      Of course, by /. standards everyone is supposed to release their source code, so by that standard, yeah Google did what they were supposed to do. On the other hand, anyone who is truly a proponent of freedom should acknowledge that, being Google's project, they are free to do with it as they like. Including not releasing source, if they see fit.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    3. Re:Good to see... by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 2, Informative

      Huh? Google was supposed to release source code for Android? Pretty sure that counts as extra.

      When you build off of GPL software you're legally obligated to release the modifications, so yeah, Google releasing a significant portion of Android is not "extra" it is the minimum required by law. That's not to say they did not also release some code they did not strictly have to, but since they had promised to do so, changing their mind at this stage would have been willfully misleading consumers and partners.

    4. Re:Good to see... by icebraining · · Score: 5, Informative

      When you build off of GPL software you're legally obligated to release the modifications, so yeah, Google releasing a significant portion of Android is not "extra" it is the minimum required by law.

      Only if you distribute binaries, which Google never did. Of course, the manufacturers did release binaries, so they did distribute the GPL'ed code from their websites. For example, you could always find Honeycomb's kernel code on the ASUS website.

      That's not to say they did not also release some code they did not strictly have to, but since they had promised to do so, changing their mind at this stage would have been willfully misleading consumers and partners.

      But they weren't obligated to promise it in the first place.

    5. Re:Good to see... by icebraining · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Legally, they weren't.

    6. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if you distribute binaries, which Google never did.

      You could probably argue this point either way. Samsung may have physically made the phones but the Nexus series phones are Google branded and ship with Google's Android binaries. Regardless, it's nice to see the code released and I'm pleased to hear that the Honeycomb bits are in there too (even if they are untagged at the moment).

    7. Re:Good to see... by icebraining · · Score: 5, Informative

      Samsung was still legally the distributor, and they did in fact release the GPLv2 licensed code on their website (search for "D710" on https://opensource.samsung.com/index.jsp, for example).

    8. Re:Good to see... by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Of course, by /. standards everyone is supposed to release their source code

      How do you come to that conclusion?

    9. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That would be why none of Ice Cream Sandwich other than the kernel is under the GPL. They didn't 'build off GPL software', in fact they went to the extreme of writing their own libc in order to avoid that. The 'some code they did not strictly have to' is basically all of Android's userland.

    10. Re:Good to see... by Snarky+McButtface · · Score: 1
    11. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Of course they can do anything they like with their code.Free software advocates do not propose to make it illegal to withhold your own source code. The issue is related to what is best for the customer. Free software advocates feel that free software is better for the customer than software that isn't free. Especially when you are talking about an OS, it is also better for 3rd party software developers to have access to the source code (this much should be obvious to anyone).

      The issue of whether or not Google is "supposed to" release the source code, I think it is not much of an argument. From the beginning they promised to release source code. I don't think anyone was under the impression that they would only release source code for some versions. Everyone thought they would release source code for all the versions. As a third party developer, it's a bit of a slap in the face to commit to a platform on the assumption that it is free, only to find that you can't get access to some versions. To the extent that many people backed Android because Google promised to release the source code, Google is "supposed" to release the source code.

      Now that they have finally done so, personally I'm happy. I'm still concerned that at some point in the future they will do the same thing, so I have difficulty backing them as much as I did in the past.

    12. Re:Good to see... by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      No, ICS is for tablets and phones.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    13. Re:Good to see... by Grave · · Score: 4, Informative

      ICS is designed to work nicely on both phones and tablets. Google knew that 2.x was not really ideal for tablets, hence Honeycomb. But forking their own OS was not ideal, either, so ICS now combines the best of both and should provide a great experience on either format.

    14. Re:Good to see... by errandum · · Score: 5, Informative

      Actually, it isn't missing in action. The ICS source tree includes the honeycomb code, even though it isn't tagged... So, technically, it's there.

    15. Re:Good to see... by rwven · · Score: 1

      ICS is meant to run on tablets AND phones. Google has been more than upfront about this...

    16. Re:Good to see... by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 1

      Because slashdot seems to require Google release code they acquired on a licence other than the GPL licence (they had their employees write it, which gives them pretty fucking favorable terms)

    17. Re:Good to see... by exomondo · · Score: 1

      In all the threads about this topic there were plenty of arguments over this issue, there was certainly no 'slashdot consensus' regarding the source code release.

    18. Re:Good to see... by iluvcapra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But they weren't obligated to promise it in the first place.

      If there's some sort of hierarchy it works like:

      1) Release nothing, offer service (Google search, Salesforce.com)

      2) Distribute dongle-encrypted binaries (Pro Tools, AutoCad)

      3) Distribute binaries (Mango, Google Android apps, iOS)

      4) Distribute binaries, distribute open source to the open components (Mac OS X)

      5) Distribute binaries, distribute source on binary delivery (Android)

      6) Maintain public source tree, no one gets the bleeding-edge source before anyone else (Linux kernel)

      7) Distribute source with a permissive license (Apache)

      And thene there's the various support levels:

      1) Fuck you (a lot of software)

      2) Check out the forum (Apple level 1)

      3) Give us a call and we'll charge you by the hour (Microsoft, enterprise Linux)

      4) Submit a ticket but we won't tell you anything after that (Android)

      5) Bring the software into the shop and we'll see what we can do with it in 10 minutes, if you live in a city (Apple Genius Bar)

      6) Submit a ticket, recruit people to vote on it, post bounties for it, and follow it to resolution (Firefox)

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    19. Re:Good to see... by bonch · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Huh? Google was supposed to release source code for Android? Pretty sure that counts as extra.

      Uh, since Google claims Android is open source, yes.

    20. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? ... being Google's project, they are free to do with it as they like. Including not releasing source, if they see fit.

      Huh? indeed. I thought Linux was Linus Torvalds' project.

    21. Re:Good to see... by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      Not legally.

      However Andy Rubin kind of opened his mouth...

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    22. Re:Good to see... by whoop · · Score: 1

      Define "open source." Good luck.

      Answer... It is all dependent on the license one chooses for their project. Some licenses might say, "release source for everything always," some say, "it's ok to keep some changes private."

      Your homework is to figure out what license Google uses for the different parts of Android. Android is fairly modular, using apps for many user-facing functions. Must every binary executable that works on Linux be forced to be completely open source?

    23. Re:Good to see... by whoop · · Score: 1

      Handset. You keep using that word, but I don't think you know what it means.

    24. Re:Good to see... by whoop · · Score: 1

      Well, now that you have the source code to everything, you'll be able to pinpoint the exact lines that Google copied from another GPL software project and failed to release the source code before. You could make millions! Or have Larry/Sergey/Eric arrested, if it is "required by law" like you say.

    25. Re:Good to see... by whoop · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. There is no forgiveness for past deemed transgressions against the Open Source here! KDE is still kursed for using the unfree Qt! Loki porting games to Linux was shit because we don't need that binary-only crap! Wine is stupid because then developers won't need to make Linux-only ports.

      Welcome to Slashdot.

    26. Re:Good to see... by exomondo · · Score: 0

      Google aren't obligated to release the source for anything but the kernel (because that is under the GPL), however a statement like 'Android is open source' was questionable (at least was up until now) since the Honeycomb version of Android was not open source because the source code for that version was not released.

    27. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      6) Submit a ticket, recruit people to vote on it, post bounties for it, and follow it to resolution (Firefox)

      Mozilla's bureaucratic & community policies are the reason it's trailed behind every browser for 2 1/2 years now. Mozilla doesn't have the popularity or the brute strength in numbers which the Linux project wields -- so it's left struggling as the smaller and more focused Opera, IE, Safari and Chromium teams quickly eclipse Firefox.

    28. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not quite. Google used some GPL code, and as such, are required to release at least portions of their source code.

    29. Re:Good to see... by whoop · · Score: 2

      Well, my point to bonch, was just saying "Android is open source" carries no specific instructions with it. That is what the various licenses are for. "X is open source because it uses Y license" is a more appropriate statement. Then we can carry on and make sure the project and any other project that forks from that carry out the terms of said license.

      "Android" is not one item released under one license. It is made up of a number of components under different licenses with varying openness. Google released source code for what it had to (ie GPL based), and kept back what it could (ie Apache license-based).

      Who stood up when Android 1.0 was released and said, "This cannot be released under these other licenses, it must be all GPL!!" Hell, this site used to go on and on and on arguing the minutia of every license, what ones can be called "open source," etc. Today, it's just "Android is open source, release source to everything!"

    30. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...you don't know squat about android. It's licensed under Apache and the GNU GPL v2, so yea, source code is kinda nice to have. This is not a /. thing. You'd think getting some source for your OS would make you happy.

    31. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, by /. standards everyone is supposed to release their source code

      How do you come to that conclusion?

      He read the grandparent to find one example. Reading other comments over the years, you can see that at least a good fraction of the commenters hold this view.

    32. Re:Good to see... by iluvcapra · · Score: 2

      Are you sure that isn't making a positive argument for the benefit of working in the cathedral instead of the bazaar?

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    33. Re:Good to see... by Toonol · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, it doesn't. They're supposed to release it. They had an excuse for Honeycomb, but that's all it was: An excuse.

      Yes, but it was a sufficient excuse. They didn't want to, and were under no obligation to do so.

      Having an excuse isn't a bad thing. It's a lot better than not having one.

    34. Re:Good to see... by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Well, my point to bonch, was just saying "Android is open source" carries no specific instructions with it.

      Fair enough, I would suggest that fundamental component is that the source code is actually released, you can hardly call a project 'open source' if you don't make the source available.

      I suppose the other point I should have mentioned is that the statement 'Android is open source' does sort of work in certain circumstances simply because all of the pieces just so happen to align, for example in the context of smartphones it works because the source-code for the kernel (required by license) and userland (optional by license) components for all of the smartphone versions (since Honeycomb is tablet-only) has been released.

    35. Re:Good to see... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you build off of GPL software you're legally obligated to release the modifications, so yeah, Google releasing a significant portion of Android is not "extra" it is the minimum required by law. That's not to say they did not also release some code they did not strictly have to, but since they had promised to do so, changing their mind at this stage would have been willfully misleading consumers and partners.

      As a parent, I have learned that while you should not always reward simply "doing what you should", it's very important not to bitch about it when someone does what they should, or what they said they would do.

      So, for future reference, the correct response to this announcement of Google releasing the source code to Android 4 is "Good". Saying "Those fuckers, they didn't do it last time" is really not productive in terms of behavior programming.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    36. Re:Good to see... by bonch · · Score: 0

      Define "open source." Good luck.

      There may be many subjective differences in the boundaries of what constitutes open source, but I'm pretty sure the core tenet is that the friggin' source code is somehow available.

      If we're now going to justify Honeycomb as "well, it's up to you to figure out what license Google uses for different parts of Android," then every claim Google has ever made about Android's openness is total bullshit.

    37. Re:Good to see... by bonch · · Score: 0

      Well, my point to bonch, was just saying "Android is open source" carries no specific instructions with it.

      Look, my point is that Google exploited the positive feelings of the phrase "open source" to appeal to techies. They then went against the spirit of open source by, y'know, not openly releasing any. If claiming to be open source has caveats behind it that exclude you from actually having to release any source, then the phrase is meaningless and should be ignored.

    38. Re:Good to see... by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      Yeah, after Google starts bragging about how much more open they are than Apple here's the tweet they BETTER back it up. For the last year, the latest Android code hasn't been any more open than iOS.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    39. Re:Good to see... by NorQue · · Score: 1

      Only if you distribute binaries, which Google never did.

      You could probably argue this point either way. Samsung may have physically made the phones but the Nexus series phones are Google branded and ship with Google's Android binaries. [...]

      And there has never been a Honey Comb for any Nexus device so far, so what's the point?

    40. Re:Good to see... by bemymonkey · · Score: 4, Informative

      Were you really worried that Google wouldn't release Ice Cream Sandwich's source code because they didn't release Honeycomb's? The reasons for holding back HC were openly stated and quite equitable... Could you have imagined the chaos resulting from people trying to hack a tablet-only OS into their smartphone with half the phone functionality, and everything that makes the form factor work, missing completely?

      Also: Ice Cream Sandwich practically *is* Honeycomb, but ready for public release due to being suitable for phone AND tablet form factors...

    41. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      finally? the first ICS device has not even shipped yet. And they were correct to withhold honeycomb.

    42. Re:Good to see... by vipw · · Score: 2

      Bad link. It just takes you to a twitter sign-up form.

    43. Re:Good to see... by vipw · · Score: 2

      It's not like that at all, don't be ridiculous.

    44. Re:Good to see... by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 1

      Huh? Google was supposed to release source code for Android? Pretty sure that counts as extra.

      Nope, sorry, it's pretty much an obligation considering where Google got most of that code, never mind most of the code that currently earns them billions of dollars. To put it in perspective, think about the large amount of self inflicted damage Google would sustain if it declared today that Android would henceforth be entirely closed like meOS.

      Anything: here's my thankyou. Not a really, really big thankyou because some of the posturing that went on in the leadup was just plain annoying. But thankyou all the same.

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
    45. Re:Good to see... by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 1

      No, it doesn't. They're supposed to release it. They had an excuse for Honeycomb, but that's all it was: An excuse.

      Yes, but it was a sufficient excuse. They didn't want to, and were under no obligation to do so.

      Google took a pretty big PR hit over that. Macheads had a field day with it.

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
    46. Re:Good to see... by agent_vee · · Score: 1

      It's more like they gave you a book but didn't say which page it is on.

    47. Re:Good to see... by f0rk · · Score: 1

      Yes! Finally! Some one with a wee bit of sense.

    48. Re:Good to see... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      You might have noriced that UIDs now go to > 2.0e+06. There is more variation in opinions than when you joined.

      Or perhaps not. Perhaps I should assume by your claim of hive-mind that you also subscribe to those notions.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    49. Re:Good to see... by DrXym · · Score: 2

      When you build off of GPL software you're legally obligated to release the modifications, so yeah, Google releasing a significant portion of Android is not "extra" it is the minimum required by law. That's not to say they did not also release some code they did not strictly have to, but since they had promised to do so, changing their mind at this stage would have been willfully misleading consumers and partners.

      Only the kernel is GPL and they've been releasing their changes for that all along. The rest of it, all the user land stuff is BSD licenced. So Google can release it as and when they see fit. Or not at all.

      My own thoughts are that they withheld 3.0 simply to piss on Amazon's parade and to give their tier 1 partners a honeymoon free from cheaper competing products. It may well be that a lot of the phone functionality was bitrotten / discarded in 3.x in their race to make it work on tablets so there is that too. But mainly the Amazon thing.

      Anyway I am very happy that they've opened up again. This is great news for everyone.

    50. Re:Good to see... by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Firefox more than holds it's own against those other browsers and I suggest the recent changes to more timely updates are an indication that they are streamlining their release process.

    51. Re:Good to see... by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      If you think a few shits on slashdot count as a big PR hit, you need to lay down the keyboard and pop the rather tiny bubble you've been living in.

    52. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me guess, IP lawyer or otherwise clueless as to the fact that Android is an open-source project, and has been since it's inception. Add to that the fact that Google has always been a proponent of open source and you will realize that it is actually pretty strange for them not to release source code. Normally i'd log in, but I'm on my mobile atm and can't be arsed (mr.master.flash)

    53. Re:Good to see... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      The GPL only applies between two parties (three if you count the copyright holder). When Google distributes the code (source or binary) to Samsung, then they are required to also give a copy of the source to Samsung. If they do this, rather than provide an offer good for three years to provide the source later, then Google has no further GPL-related obligations. If you receive a Samsung device containing GPL'd code supplied to them by Google, then Samsung, not Google, is responsible for providing the source to you.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    54. Re:Good to see... by X3J11 · · Score: 1

      You missed one.

      8) Release source as Public Domain, where anyone can do anything with it. Granted, it's not as popular as it was 30 years ago, but there's still a lot of interesting PD code floating around the net.

    55. Re:Good to see... by Flipao · · Score: 1

      Huh?, Gingebread has always been up to date. Only Honeycomb, which accounts for about 1% of devices did not have its source released.

    56. Re:Good to see... by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 1

      Google has always complied with the GPL - but people are misinformed and think that the GPL applies to significantly more of Android than it does.

      The kernel is, of course, GPL, and nearly every device manufacturer has been good about releasing kernel sources. (Some more than others, HTC needed a bit of "encouragement", Chinese manufacturers like Huawei and ZTE are awful.)

      A few other components are also GPL, but most of the Android platform is Apache licensed.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    57. Re:Good to see... by scumdamn · · Score: 2

      So on Slashdot of 2011, being a company that builds you software based on open source software and open sourcing every part of your software (even the parts you aren't obligated to) gets you no credit. Slashdot really was all about open source back in my day. What the fuck happened during the last few years to make Slashdot such a shit hole of trolls?

    58. Re:Good to see... by Real1tyCzech · · Score: 1

      Wow. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, do you?

      You're, um...doing it wrong.

    59. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy crap the massive idiocy FUD machine has started up. Pull your head from your ass and stop spewing lies and ignorance. FACTUALLY, the android source code absolutely is NOT GPL. Period. End of discussion. The ONLY code they distribute which is both released as a binary and falls under the GPL is the linux kernel, which is freely available.

    60. Re:Good to see... by twiddler69 · · Score: 1

      If Honeycomb was not designed for Phones then I doubt anyone would use it on a phone. Had Google released the source for Honeycomb it would have been used on many low end tablets. My guess is Google only wanted honeycomb on a few tablets they knew they could get revenue from.

    61. Re:Good to see... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Which pretty much sucks when that is the device you have and you end up needing to disassemble the binaries to figure things out. Look, if you're going to claim to be open, you better be open. "All but 1%" is not open.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    62. Re:Good to see... by EvilJoker · · Score: 1

      Remove mobile from the address. Or, click here

    63. Re:Good to see... by bonch · · Score: 1

      My comment was marked as Troll? You can seriously get modded down on Slashdot now for expecting an open source project to have its source available? Talk about jumping the shark.

    64. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google is competing with Apple, therefore they're thieves, because Apple invented everything and anything remotely close to an Apple product is a knock-off.

      Also, open source is a nice ideal, but when someone has to choose between their ideals and a shiny piece of brushed aluminum and glass that makes them feel good about themselves, they go with the shiny. Gotta rationalize that purchase somehow.

    65. Re:Good to see... by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Surprised you have the balls to post in this thread, given how wrong your predictions that the ICS source would never be released turned out to be.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    66. Re:Good to see... by scot4875 · · Score: 1

      Except hey, now you can! Honeycomb devices should support ICS.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    67. Re:Good to see... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but now I don't need to anymore lol I already disassembled it

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    68. Re:Good to see... by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 1

      If you think a few shits on slashdot count as a big PR hit, you need to lay down the keyboard and pop the rather tiny bubble you've been living in.

      Who do you think writes the code that makes Google rich?

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
    69. Re:Good to see... by Raenex · · Score: 0

      Could you have imagined the chaos resulting from people trying to hack a tablet-only OS into their smartphone with half the phone functionality, and everything that makes the form factor work, missing completely?

      Can I imagine people taking responsibility for what software gets run on what device? Yes. Can I imagine people updating their software on devices where Honeycomb was shipped? Yes. Can I imagine Google not redefining standard terms like open source and having people lap it up and defend the practice?

    70. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then shut your fucking hole.

    71. Re:Good to see... by starfire83 · · Score: 1

      Android itself isn't licensed using GPL or GPLv2. It's licensed under the Apache2 license. The GPL'd code that it does use (Linux kernel) Google and manufacturers release to the public with their modifications for each device as a new version of the kernel comes out. Are they timely releases? Sometimes, not always.

      http://developer.android.com/resources/faq/licensingandoss.html
      http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2007/11/why-google-chose-the-apache-software-license-over-gplv2.ars

    72. Re:Good to see... by vipw · · Score: 1

      Yeah, looks like he forgot the "sleep 18000000 ;" part of his command...

    73. Re:Good to see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except, you know, we're not dealing with children. We're dealing with professionals that have done a nearly unmatched job of respecting open source licenses. Any assumption that you're in a position to train them like children is both absurd and insulting.

      The reason we shouldn't bitch about the last one is because there's nothing to justifiably bitch about. They handled that situation precisely as they should have, and managed to do it on the up-and-up.

  3. Here come the ports by exomondo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Hopefully that means we will see ICS ported to other devices in the near future, it should be interesting to see how it performs on older devices.
    Good to see that ICS is an open source version of Android after the closed-source Honeycomb created that possibility (however unlikely) of other Android versions following suit.

    1. Re:Here come the ports by moderatorrater · · Score: 1

      however unlikely

      You must be new here. Google, the epitome of evil and all that is bad and hypocritical, will never release the ICS source, mark my words! *two weeks later* Those bastards released the source two weeks late! Light the torches!

    2. Re:Here come the ports by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HC source is included in patch history. It is all there...not that anyone but the idealists give a crap.

      As for it being available previously, it was. You just had to look on the manufacturer's websites (The folks who released binaries)...not on Google's site (who never released the binaries and was thus under no obligation to release ... anything.

      Now quick! Tell us something else you know nothing about!

  4. Show me the source. by mjwx · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well here it is,

    Just like Google promised, they were quite open about why they didnt release the Honeycomb source (not that it stopped ROM cookers) and that the changes in 3.x would be released in 4.0.

    It's nice that a large company actually adheres to its word.

    Now how long before CyanogenMod 9 is released.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    1. Re:Show me the source. by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Screw that. When does the AndroidX86 version get released? I need to upgrade my home made Car stereo that runs Android.

      I can finally get rid of the crud hack of adding on screen buttons for volume, back and home.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    2. Re:Show me the source. by Elgonn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now how long before CyanogenMod 9 is released.

      This is really what most of us care about at this point. Maybe 1% of us will actively use the code personally.

    3. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Talk to these guys:
      http://www.android-x86.org/

    4. Re:Show me the source. by mjwx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now how long before CyanogenMod 9 is released.

      This is really what most of us care about at this point. Maybe 1% of us will actively use the code personally.

      But that 1% matters as they are the device manufacturers.

      Cheap Elocity or Archos tablets running ICS on display at your local Tesco's or Best Buy. Hell, I might buy one just for my car, the fact that the $200 tablets were all running 2.2 was the only thing stopping me (lets be honest, on a 7" screen 2.x was crap).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    5. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dunno, a lot of us would like to use an ICS-based MIUI as well.

    6. Re:Show me the source. by rastoboy29 · · Score: 1

      What was that reason, that they didn't release Honeycomb?

      Srsly I never heard the rationale...

      It matters to me because I support Android very much *because* it is open.

    7. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, but MIUI just uses CM code and adds closed-source tweaks. Perfectly in their rights, but still a little sleazy IMO.

    8. Re:Show me the source. by icebraining · · Score: 5, Informative

      "To make our schedule to ship the tablet, we made some design tradeoffs," says Andy Rubin, vice-president for engineering at Google and head of its Android group. "We didn't want to think about what it would take for the same software to run on phones. It would have required a lot of additional resources and extended our schedule beyond what we thought was reasonable. So we took a shortcut."

      Rubin says that if Google were to open-source the Honeycomb code now, as it has with other versions of Android at similar periods in their development, it couldn't prevent developers from putting the software on phones "and creating a really bad user experience. We have no idea if it will even work on phones."

    9. Re:Show me the source. by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Matias Duarte said basically the same thing: "On Honeycomb we cheated, we cut the corner of all that smaller device support. That’s the sole reason we haven’t open sourced it."

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    10. Re:Show me the source. by Miamicanes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > What was that reason, that they didn't release Honeycomb?

      That, and to temporarily give higher-end tablets with better hardware a fighting chance against the onslaught of underpowered K-mart-bound tablets from China with 10" 480x800 displays and 200MHz CPUs. Google wasn't terribly picky about whom they allowed to have access to Honeycomb, as long as your hardware met their minimum spec. It wasn't ideal, but it was the only way to give tablets like the Xoom, Transformer, and Galaxy Tab a fighting chance to break out of the 480x800 ghetto and give us hardware that wouldn't have iPad owners laughing at us.

    11. Re:Show me the source. by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 0

      Well they did finally release, so kudos for that but the fact remains that Google gets to determine what gets released and when. That's OK for hobbyists but not for people who would like to build a business around Android without being bound hands and feet to Google. There's a reason Amazon has basically forked Android by basing their new platform around version 2.1

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    12. Re:Show me the source. by evilviper · · Score: 1

      the fact that the $200 tablets were all running 2.2 was the only thing stopping me (lets be honest, on a 7" screen 2.x was crap).

      Really? I was willing to stick with 2.3 but bailed out when I found that even the $300 Android tablets had awfully low res screens (lower than my tiny damn phone, in fact), and incredibly unresponsive and massively frustrating touch-screens.

      By all means, if you find a $200 Android tablet that's buttery smooth and super-snappy, let us all know. There tends to be a big gulf between cheap junk and first tier tablets, with no middle ground.

      On the same subject, let me know when you find an Android phone with two, good quality front-facing speakers. Even the cheapest tablets surpass the most expensive smartphones there for some reason... Even the EEEPC's tiny speakers sound far better. That's easily my top annoyance, significantly reducing the utility of my phone as an all-in-one device since I really have to lug around speakers.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    13. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FUD. Kindle Fire rungs Gingerbread (2.3) and it wouldn't surprise many people if it got an ICS upgrade eventually.

    14. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many first tier tablets are there?

    15. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Errr - Android belongs to Google. Of course they get to decide what gets released etc. What alternative do you suggest? That the government take over Android development?

    16. Re:Show me the source. by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Really? I was willing to stick with 2.3 but bailed out when I found that even the $300 Android tablets had awfully low res screens (lower than my tiny damn phone, in fact), and incredibly unresponsive and massively frustrating touch-screens.

      I guess you didn't see the Archos range.

      Or the other tablets that came out, even the Samsung Galaxy Tab (original 7" version) was around $200 at one stage.

      All of these have capacitive touchscreens and 1 GHz processors. More then capable, but 2.x really wasn't built for a 7" display.

      Right now, you'll start seeing honeycomb tablets for $300.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    17. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      2 weeks

    18. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's sleazy. In regards to third-party modifications, I think that the original authors' intentions should (morally) trump those of the third party, unless new copyright terms dictate otherwise. It's common for mod authors to try and assert control over stuff they tweaked and didn't create. I think it shows a lack of respect for the original creators.

    19. Re:Show me the source. by evilviper · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I guess you didn't see the Archos range.

      Yes I did. In fact my rant about low-res screens and crappy unresponsive touchscreens is directed SQUARELY AT ARCHOS.

      "Capacitive" isn't a magic keyword that makes it not-suck. The cheap ones are still a nightmare to use, and since that's the sole form of input, the whole device becomes worthless.

      That wasn't the only issue, btw. Other big issues were the lack of a compas, lack of GPS, inability to charge, AT ALL from USB, a power socket DIRECTLY next to the headphone jack, a power plug exactly the same size as a headphone jack (see where we're going, here?) super-slick case and absolutely no ergonomics making it impossible to hold, being much heavier than comparable devices.

      I consider Archos tablets the canonical example of crap that I wouldn't use if they were giving it away, and here you're trumpeting them as first-class devices.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    20. Re:Show me the source. by bemymonkey · · Score: 2

      I'm curious: Why did you go with X86? Wouldn't an ARM based system be much more power efficient? Hell, just slapping an Android tablet or one of the larger phones into the dash sounds pretty slick to me...

    21. Re:Show me the source. by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      For all intents and purposes: Two. One is a Tegra2 device with 1GB of RAM and a WXGA screen that runs Android, sold by companies like Samsung, ASUS and Motorola. The other is the iPad...

    22. Re:Show me the source. by Plunky · · Score: 1

      I need to upgrade my home made Car stereo that runs Android.

      I am interested in your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter!

      What are you using for a display/front panel?

    23. Re:Show me the source. by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Because I can buy an ion base X86 nano ITX board cheaper and far easier than building a ARM based board from scratch and then have to build my own Android Distro for the device.

      far faster time to end product as well.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    24. Re:Show me the source. by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Informative

      7" LCD with a resistive touchscreen. 800X480 resolution is more than enough for a car display.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    25. Re:Show me the source. by Zebedeu · · Score: 1

      Me too!
      I've been thinking of doing this for a long time now, but have been holding off because I have no idea where to start.

      Would you (GP) mind sharing your setup?

    26. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, to revive this gtablet! Anyone working on a viewsonic port?

    27. Re:Show me the source. by paintballer1087 · · Score: 1

      Occupy Android! We want their source and their tags! Big corporations shouldn't get to make choices that affect others! Free Nexus Primes for everyone!

    28. Re:Show me the source. by paintballer1087 · · Score: 1

      My kingdom for an edit button!

      if(phoneName == "Nexus Prime")
      {
      phoneName = "Galaxy Nexus";
      fail++;
      }

    29. Re:Show me the source. by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      Rubin says that if Google were to open-source the Honeycomb code now, as it has with other versions of Android at similar periods in their development, it couldn't prevent developers from putting the software on phones "and creating a really bad user experience. We have no idea if it will even work on phones."

      But isn't the point of open-source software is to allow the enthusiast access to the source code and see what they can do with it?

      There is nothing wrong with Google wanting to wait until their hardware partners deliver their products prior to releasing the code, since it is their code. So let's stop pretending that this is open source development model and condemning Google, and treat this as products being delivered by Google that has some source code available (shared source).

      Google should just own up to using the shared source model and quit bullshitting us with their "preventing really bad user experience" or "keep a schedule" excuses. You're either have an open source development model or you don't.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    30. Re:Show me the source. by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Didn't work. I'm pretty sure the iPad owners still laughed.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    31. Re:Show me the source. by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      So, Honeycomb really was big.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    32. Re:Show me the source. by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Open Source code and model are different things.

      Android, the Software, is (now) Open Source, as defined by the OSI, since it fits the definition.

      Android, the Project, may not be Open Source, provided a single definition of the model is accepted.

      If Google has claimed Android to follow an Open Source model, I agree with you, but calling Android simply "Open Source" is still correct.

    33. Re:Show me the source. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I think sneering and giggling is more their style.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    34. Re:Show me the source. by Imbrondir · · Score: 1

      Actually they were very picky about whom to allow access to honeycomb. There are probably hundreds of tablet companies in China (mostly Shenzhen), and although most are rather crappy (both in terms of quality and speed), there are some of pretty good ones. However only the very biggest ones (like Huawei) were granted access. Others were left out in the cold. Even a company I knew with 700 employees selling equally matched tablets to the original Samsung Galaxy tab had no chance.

    35. Re:Show me the source. by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      Well, ok, there WAS kind of a problem with small Shenzhen manufacturers... mainly, because Google would have had no effective recourse against them if it leaked out. Samsung, Motorola, Acer, Asus, Lenovo, and Toshiba are all big enough to sue the bejesus out of if Honeycomb ended up on lesser hardware and the leak could be traced to one of them. You can't say the same thing with respect to a small factory in Shenzhen.

      In theory, Google could have possibly cut a deal whereby they didn't get the source, and only get a compiled distro from Google itself... but then that raises the question of chipset compatibility. If they didn't use a Tegra2, it would have been two strikes against them -- one, because it would have been a foreign build environment compared to every other Honeycomb tablet, and two, because if it were downward-compatible with cheaper tablets, it would have opened the door for that Honeycomb build to end up on lesser hardware anyway. I can almost guarantee that if someone from Shenzhen showed up in Mountain View asking to buy a build of Honeycomb for a high-end Rockchip-based tablet, Google's first question would have been, "How can you guarantee somebody won't be able to edit the compiled build to make it work (slowly) on a lesser Rockchip-based tablet?" In a sense, the Tegra2 was also an effective dongle that kept intact copies of Honeycomb from running on lesser tablets.

    36. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RE Cyanogenmod: They're hinting 2-ish months to something really usable in Tweets... It may be 1-1.5 months before the nightly builds are up to snuff enough for a techie to use it as a regular driver ROM on their tablet or phone for select devices. It wasn't hard to get something "usable" as at least a toy in two differing variants using a hodgepodge of HC Simulator binaries, official gapps, and CM7 on the Nook Color- so, I'd expect, except for the brutally high recommended build system requirements, that it'd all mostly snap into place like CM7 did.

    37. Re:Show me the source. by Imbrondir · · Score: 1

      Interesting. Your reasoning makes sense.

    38. Re:Show me the source. by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      My point is that it's okay for Google to decide when to release their code.

      However they are marketing this OS as open-sourced in every sense of the word, why else would they come up with these excuses for why they delayed the source code release?

      If Google has claimed Android to follow an Open Source model, I agree with you, but calling Android simply "Open Source" is still correct.

      But they do. Please read their "Get Involved" page, or their "Philosophy" page.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    39. Re:Show me the source. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Reading between the lines it sounds like they didn't release it because it was such a kludge they'd be embarrassed if anyone saw it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    40. Re:Show me the source. by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Embarrassment about the ugly code may be a part of it, but I think reading between the lines isn't really necessary here. They said the code was simply broken for the vast majority of devices people would want to use it on, as excuses go that one is pretty reasonable as is.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    41. Re:Show me the source. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Well they could have put a disclaimer on it to that effect. But I guess a fair number of people wouldn't have taken any notice of it and the press would have been full of "OMG androis is teh SL00000000Wz0r11111", which they understandably wanted to avoid.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    42. Re:Show me the source. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      http://www.mp3car.com/ to start with., I am far beyond that having everything in a single double din enclosure like a commercial stereo. I cant fathom having a separate PC elsewhere and running cables all over the car.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    43. Re:Show me the source. by Zebedeu · · Score: 1

      What's your hardware?
      I've seen a few all-in-one double-DIN PCs, but I wasn't sure how hard it would be to simply drop Android on it.

      Did you use the software from Android-x86?

    44. Re:Show me the source. by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      1.2ghz atom based nanoITX motherboard, 7" lcd, custom duino based device to tell it the 3 axis accelerometer data and interface to to to other things. Soundcard out to a car amplifier.

      android-X86 as the OS on a small flash drive. I am working on finding a wifi/3G minipci board that will work with androidX86 so I can have it connect to the wifi in the house and use a basic 3G data plan to pull weather and traffic data as well as other updates. Accelerometer is used for a fuel economy app along with GPS speed data.

      Biggest problem is that Android actually sucks as a UI in the car. it is very distracting to change modes. I need to one of these days write my own "car app" that has big buttons to get me into 90% of what I need.

      99% of all the "all in one" double din pc's are garbage. I have tried several and they all have barely any processing speed or the audio rearend is a joke.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    45. Re:Show me the source. by Zebedeu · · Score: 1

      Biggest problem is that Android actually sucks as a UI in the car. it is very distracting to change modes.

      I've noticed this myself.
      I've fashioned a car dock for my Nexus S by glueing the phone's horizontal dock to a bean bag mount and connecting it to a FM transmitter (I wanted something easy to set up, and also hide when parked).
      It's nice to have the Android apps in the car, but it's a pain switching between, say, navigation and music, especially since the official music app hides the status bar when horizontal.

      I've tried using the "car home" software (or whatever it's called) but it's next to useless for that I need.
      I'd be interested in starting a discussion on what the perfect software for a head unit could be, and how to go about doing it.
      I have some experience with Android development, so I'm willing to get my hands dirty.

      BTW thanks for sharing your setup. It seems a bit too complex for my knowledge and time, but it does sound interesting.

    46. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because I can buy an ion base X86 nano ITX board cheaper and far easier than building a ARM based board from scratch and then have to build my own Android Distro for the device.

      Why do you think you'd have to do it from scratch? Found within 30 seconds of googling:

      http://beagleboard.org/

      $89, which is somewhat cheaper than the cheapest x86 board I can find in a similar time frame.

    47. Re:Show me the source. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? I was willing to stick with 2.3 but bailed out when I found that even the $300 Android tablets had awfully low res screens (lower than my tiny damn phone, in fact), and incredibly unresponsive and massively frustrating touch-screens.

      The Haipad M8 is an 8" capacitive multi-touch 1280x768 tablet, which ought to be fine for most purposes, and retails at about $200. It's also got a 1.3GHz Cortex A8 and 1GB of RAM, so processing power is not an issue. Only problem is lack of internal 3G and GPS support (although external USB should be able to add both features).

      Yes, if you last looked a year or so ago, you'd have found all the cheap options had low quality resistive screens that needed some real effort to use (although they are okay once you're used to them, to be honest, but they're never quite the same as a capacititive one), but even so I've never seen a $300 tablet with lower than 800x600 resolution, which is higher than most phones. And certainly the current crop do a bit better than that. Resistive screens seem to have been relegated to the $150 price range (except for a few key exceptions that pack lots of features into a $300 tablet, e.g. the Flytouch range, which are 10" resistive models with lots of storage, very large batteries, gps, multiple sd slots, etc.).

  5. GitHub by ttong · · Score: 5, Informative

    GitHub provides a friendly interface to view the source without having to use the repo tool and downloading the whole thing, so I'm eagerly waiting for this to get pushed there as well. Shouldn't take long.

    https://github.com/android/

  6. Re:So much for Google's links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you didn't even fscking care to check the fscking link?

    http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html

  7. Re:So much for Google's links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://source.android.com/source/downloading.htmlCheck yields a 404.

    Remove "Check" from the end of the URL and it loads just fine.

  8. Some, not all of Honeycomb up for tagging (maybe) by sethstorm · · Score: 0

    From the discussion :

    Jean-Baptiste Queru:
    "I do not intend to globally tag Honeycomb releases, but I will
    consider tagging 3.2.1 and 3.2.2 in frameworks/base so that
    application developers can match the code that's running on devices."

    (IMHO, not good enough to not release the entire platform.)

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  9. Re:So much for Google's links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try deleting the "Check", which pretty clearly comes from the next sentence.

  10. Re:So much for Google's links by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Try
    http://source.android.com/source/downloading.html

  11. Ice Cream+Graham Crackers+Crashing by orphiuchus · · Score: 4, Funny

    Come on, we all already know goes into an ice Cream Sandwich. You get two graham crackers, put ice cream between them, and serve with a side of randomly lock up my phone for no reason. Easy.

    1. Re:Ice Cream+Graham Crackers+Crashing by grcumb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Original submitter here. Amusingly, my slashdot nick is a mis-spelling of Graham Crumb, my non de plume. Flaky indeed.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    2. Re:Ice Cream+Graham Crackers+Crashing by vlueboy · · Score: 1

      Ouch. Tough crowd of moderators tonight.

      Who could downmod the parent poster in light of a sig like "Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight." This food motif, revelation and submitter's temp prestige should have some more value, seeing how we all wanted to discuss Ice Cream Sandwiches anyway.

    3. Re:Ice Cream+Graham Crackers+Crashing by kesuki · · Score: 1

      "lock up my phone for no reason."

      there is a reason why they lock up.

    4. Re:Ice Cream+Graham Crackers+Crashing by Missing.Matter · · Score: 1

      This food motif

      Yes but he missed "nom" de plume through mispelling. What a waste of another perfectly good food reference.

    5. Re:Ice Cream+Graham Crackers+Crashing by vipw · · Score: 1

      Indeed, it should be his nom nom nom de plume.

    6. Re:Ice Cream+Graham Crackers+Crashing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you mean nom de plume, another misspelling.
      Flaky indeed.

  12. Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by sethstorm · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Just like Google promised, they were quite open about why they didnt release the Honeycomb source ...and no it isn't for Honeycomb - The history is there, but the tags aren't. Add tags to match the released devices globally, and all would be well.

    It's nice that a large company actually adheres to its word.
    It's easy to do it when you're opaque.

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
    1. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by samkass · · Score: 0

      Funny, when Apple released source code in this manner (big chunks all at once) the open source community was up in arms, claiming they weren't being good open-source citizens. Remember when KHTML folks were ranting about Apple's handling of WebKit? Unless Android development opens up, this is more of a "shared source" model than a real "open source" one.

      --
      E pluribus unum
    2. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by icebraining · · Score: 2

      People were in fact annoyed that Google didn't contribute back to the kernel and such, but that discussion has died long ago. This isn't exactly the first release of Android's code.

    3. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They did send patches to the kernel but they was rejected since you couldn't compile outright a "working" version due to android often relying on certain things that wasn't released (hardware drivers for phones are often closed sourced which Google really can't do much about).

    4. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by MrHanky · · Score: 2

      The difference being that Android is Google's project and KHTML is KDE's, with Apple splitting up and making a competing fork with little chance of putting their changes back in the parent tree and Google not doing that. Not really all that funny.

    5. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, for starters, Apple used to release all their intrusive changes to KHTML as a single patch, which made it impossible to discern what had changed and therefore "impossible" to integrate back upstream. Google has released the repository itself, with proper change history, of all the code they have been working on. That's quite a big difference, so stop spreading FUD.

    6. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference being that Android is Google's project and KHTML is KDE's, with Apple splitting up and making a competing fork with little chance of putting their changes back in the parent tree and Google not doing that.

      Google did exactly that with the linux kernel!

    7. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Funny, when Apple released source code in this manner (big chunks all at once) the open source community was up in arms, claiming they weren't being good open-source citizens.

      I actually don't remember anyone significant in the OSS community being up in arms. There were a lot of people on Slashdot, but I'm not really convinced that's the same thing.

      Remember when KHTML folks were ranting about Apple's handling of WebKit?

      No. I remember when one of the KHTML developers made a comment saying they wished Apple would make things easier to backport into KHTML. I further remember them politely e-mailing the Apple devs about it and then the KHTML team making numerous comments about how nice it was that Apple went out of their way to help even though a lot of the changes were in a direction the KHTML team was not really interested in emulating. I further remember people who weren't KHTML developers ranting loudly and at length in numerous forums and here on Slashdot about how "evil" Apple was and repeatedly making uninformed comments that bordered on libel. Apparently the impression that left still lingers.

      Unless Android development opens up, this is more of a "shared source" model than a real "open source" one.

      Not really. Until Google distributes the software they are not obligated to share any code and if they feel that the time to market advantage of keeping the code secret until they ship is important, well that's a perfectly reasonable strategy that has been quite common in OSS for a long time. It is a trade off because it discourages some players from contributing to the same project and can limit adoption by some vendors.

    8. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that it's exactly what they did with the Linux kernel, fanboi.

    9. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Desler · · Score: 1

      So Apple was doing nothing different than Red Hat is now doing with their kernel patches? Funny how the same people who were flaming Apple defend Red Hat doing the same thing because now "Red Hat is sticking it to Oracle"! Damn hypocrites.

    10. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just like Google promised, they were quite open about why they didnt release the Honeycomb source ...and no it isn't for Honeycomb - The history is there, but the tags aren't. Add tags to match the released devices globally, and all would be well.

      I wondered how the slashbots would spin this to make Google evil when they released the source. But I really thought they'd come up with something better than "oh noes, sum tagz is missing!"

      Do you even know what tags are? Dude, you've got complete revision history, complete with developers' comments of every change... read 'em and figure out what version you want to grab out of there. It's not like there's any One True Honeycomb version either. There were multiple releases, which in turn were almost certainly modified in various ways by the device vendors.

      Considering that Google is under no legal obligation to release Android source at all, complaining when Google only gives you the complete source repository, omitting some tags is like whining that someone gave you free beer and pretzels but some of the salt had fallen off. Cry me a river.

    11. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unless Android development opens up, this is more of a "shared source" model than a real "open source" one.

      This comes up every single time. The core Android source code (ie. not including third-party drivers, etc.) is most definitely open source, released under OSI-approved open source licenses. Android *development* is not all that open, as it's all done in-house at Google. This is a different thing than the source being open or not.

      Other open source software may use a more open development model, but even then it's still up to the actual core developers what they include or not. If I want to hack up the Firefox source code to do something cool, Mozilla isn't just going to include that in the next release either. Same with Apache software. They might be more willing to look at external contributions than Google is, but it all comes down to how much the owners/managers of the project want to include from other sources. They're free to include as much or as little of your contributions or my contributions as they want.

      And, of course, you're free to create your own fork of Android (you could call it "Samdroid" given your name) and allow whatever kind of development you think would be "real" open source. Let us know when you do; it sounds like an intriguing project.

    12. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the intentions matter: Red Hat started concatenating patches because CentOS was ripping them off. Apple did it to... spite the KHTML team? I don't know, and I don't really care. WebKit has eradicated most of the former GPL code, now rewritten BSD-style code, so the argument is almost irrelevant.

      Anyway, the situation would be analogous to CentOS withholding patches from Red Hat, not vice versa.

    13. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Commit history, idiot.

    14. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As other people have noted, you seem to be under the impression that slashdot comments are a good way to gauge the opinions of the open source community. This is only true if you define 'community' as 'people who rant about this subject'.

    15. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "anyone significant in the OSS community"

      Yes, OSS, another way sweaty nerds can feel superior over other lesser sweaty nerds.

    16. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 3

      The difference being that Android is Google's project and KHTML is KDE's...

      Bad comparison. The majority of Android was not developed by Google or Android before being acquired. Dalvik is the main from-scratch component, then there is the (fairly mundane) window manager, and most of the rest was assembling components.

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
    17. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 1

      Mozilla foundation would be wise to drop Gecko in favor of Webkit, and then GPL Webkit as, say, um "Gecko 2".

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
    18. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're trying to claim that Apple is as good an open-source citizen as Redhat, then you are drinking some particularly strong kool aid. It sounds good, and I'd be interested in trying some for myself. Wherecan I get it?

      Just in case you're merely mistaken, RedHat send an awful lot of stuff upstream, and they always have done. In fact, they don't just send stuff upstream, they employ quite a number of the kernel developers/maintainers full time who do nothing but hack publicly on the entirely open-source kernel.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    19. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I actually don't remember anyone significant in the OSS community being up in arms."

      You sound like a real asshat.

    20. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by silanea · · Score: 1

      You may appreciate the difference between a software that essentially is a single building block used in any number of applications where untimely releases of a mass of changes makes it incredibly hard for the developers of those applications to adapt them to this building block, and a complete OS stack that only really works as one complete package and where interest in individual components is secondary to interest in the system as a whole.

      --
      Rudolf Hess edited Mein Kampf. He was the very first grammar nazi.
    21. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      Dalvik is Apache licensed.

    22. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      Funny, when Apple released source code in this manner (big chunks all at once) the open source community was up in arms, claiming they weren't being good open-source citizens.

      That's complete crap. Slashdot quoted the KHTML devs OUT OF CONTEXT at the time implying that, but it was false at the time and it's still false. And the majority of responses to the Slashdot article took Apple's "side" in the non-existent war.

      The KHTML people kept being bugged by users asking when Apple's changes would be integrated with KHTML. Finally, one of the devs wrote an article explaining the situation - basically that Apple's changes weren't really available in a form that would make them easy to integrate. He didn't criticize Apple, he was simply explaining a technical problem. Apple, remember, didn't simply extend KHTML to make WebKit, they refactored the entire thing.

      And that's absolutely fine. Nobody in the Free Software or Open Source movements has any problem with someone taking code, and making modifications to make it more suitable for their own uses. Few developers expect every change to be something they can integrate back into their own code. I can't even begin, to be honest, to comprehend the mentality that says that forks have to be limited in that way, and outside of the occasional prima-donna developer who slaps a GPL or Apache license on some code without thinking about it and then gets all upset when someone uses their code in a way they don't like, I suspect the majority of devs feel the same way.

      Now, there is a small community who insist that any forks are bad. That all code has to be contributed to a single project. They're the people who get all upset that there's a GNOME and a KDE because it means "all this effort" is being duplicated. They think Firefox and Chrome should merge. They think that Linux should be given a Win32 API so that people don't have to rewrite all the existing apps for GNU/Linux. Those people are loud, obnoxious, and post to Slashdot, but few of them have ever done any development work in their entire lives.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    23. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by makomk · · Score: 1

      RedHat just don't send anything upstream to any version of the kernel except the latest, bleeding-edge, don't-install-it-on-production-boxes release. Which conveniently doesn't compete with them, unlike the stable upstream releases that they're refusing to cooperate with and even intentionally obstructing.

    24. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by zeroshade · · Score: 1

      I don't see how that line is moronic. It's completely accurate.

    25. Re:Not until the "incompleteness" is stated by Daniel+Phillips · · Score: 1

      So?

      --
      Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
  13. Re:Some, not all of Honeycomb up for tagging (mayb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you even understand what the term "Tagging" means? Here's a hint: It has absolutely nothing to do with the actual code in the repository.

  14. What do you know.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess all the nay-sayers were actually wrong. What do you know.

    Next thing you know they will finish cleaning up 3.0 and release that code too and all the whiners will have to find another reason to whine.

    Can't wait for CM7 to port! :D

  15. Re:Stupid projects names by Daetrin · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yeah! "Cupcake", "Eclair", "Ice Cream", what the hell kind of names are those? Sounds more like something from a dinner menu than a release list!

    The OSS movement really needs to take a page from the book of professional companies like Microsoft. They know how to give their product versions classy names, like "Mango". See how much better that is?

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  16. Re:Some, not all of Honeycomb up for tagging (mayb by slimjim8094 · · Score: 2

    The tags aren't necessarily relevant to the outside world, and perhaps provide a little too much insight into the development process.

    I once tagged something "shitFinallyFixedNow" at 4AM while working on a final project in school. Needless to say, I didn't push that tag to the professor....

    --
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  17. Question for those familiar with the code by Daetrin · · Score: 1

    So Ice Cream Sandwich is designed to be compatible with both phones and tablets. Do you have set a specific flag when you build the code depending on what kind of device you want to put it on? Or is it relatively device agnostic? Can it determine the screen size by querying the hardware and figure out what to do automagically on its own?

    --
    This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    1. Re:Question for those familiar with the code by waffle+zero · · Score: 1

      I believe it's dependent on a calculation of the declared screen dpi (ppi) and the screen resolution.

    2. Re:Question for those familiar with the code by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

      That would make retina displays on phones count as tablets.

      It's configured in the build.prop

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    3. Re:Question for those familiar with the code by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      The configuration in build.prop is exactly what waffle.zero was talking about: "declared screen dpi" is exactly the line "ro.sf.lcd_density=xxx" from build.prop ;)

      High resolution & low density in build.prop => tablet
      High resolution & high density in build.prop => big-ass phone

    4. Re:Question for those familiar with the code by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      So Ice Cream Sandwich is designed to be compatible with both phones and tablets. Do you have set a specific flag when you build the code depending on what kind of device you want to put it on? Or is it relatively device agnostic? Can it determine the screen size by querying the hardware and figure out what to do automagically on its own?

      It is design-agnostic, in that you can use resolution and DPI to determine what the device is like, and adapt the UI accordingly. This describes the details.

  18. Re:Stupid projects names by artor3 · · Score: 1

    stupid names that don't have any fucking link with what the project is all about.

    Like how Apple names their OS releases after big cats, because big cats and operating systems have so much in common?

    You clearly have never worked in any real tech industry job, otherwise you would know that cool-sounding, themed, but ultimately meaningless project code names are ubiquitous.

  19. Re:Don't be kissing Googles ass by icebraining · · Score: 4, Informative

    They had no other choice legally, or else this wouldn't have happened.

    Uh, no. First, they never distributed binaries, so they weren't required to release anything.

    Second, the parts that *were* required to be released (by the manufacturers, not Google) were in fact released, and you could always get them. They're in the ASUS site, for example.

    Thirdly, most of the code that actually makes up Android is Apache2 licensed, which means they are never required to release it - you can use it on proprietary code.

    Can I type make install? Or are we still in tivo land?

    That's up to the manufacturers, not Google.

  20. Re:Stupid projects names by ravenshrike · · Score: 2

    Look, clearly the Android names are working up to something specific. The release that causes the singularity will be named Bacon.

  21. Re:Stupid projects names by johnsnails · · Score: 1

    I'm going to remove mod points for peeps but couldn't resist posting... Speaking of names, how about Bing? What kind of a name is that? "Here let me bing that for you", just doesn't gel.

  22. Re:Don't be kissing Googles ass by exomondo · · Score: 1

    They had no other choice legally, or else this wouldn't have happened.

    Of course they did, the only thing they have to release is the kernel code since nothing in the ASL requires them to release source code and that's why Honeycomb didn't have to be released.

  23. Now could I actually get an upgrade?? by echusarcana · · Score: 0

    That's great and all, but could I please have the actual item on my Googlerola Xoom tab? I'm still waiting for Android 3.2 to be released on the Xoom.

    1. Re:Now could I actually get an upgrade?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm posting this from my XOOM running Android 3.2.1

      The Xoom is one of the few easily unlockable/rootable devices from Motorola... take advantage of it.

    2. Re:Now could I actually get an upgrade?? by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      I can almost guarantee that there are at least a half-dozen guys who won't be going to bed tonight just so they can post a semi-working bootable ICS distro for Xoom before dawn breaks over western Europe (and earn bragging rights over their peers with Transformers, A500s, Galaxy Tabs, and Thrives). A version you're likely to regard as stable will probably take a week or two. Moto's official build will probably get released to a yawn 3 months from now, long after everyone who passionately cares about ICS has already upgraded to it on their own.

      Personally, I'm thrilled. I can't wait to rip into the code that handles the power button, and try overloading it to create a new double-click gesture that means "unlock the orientation, read the accelerometer, reorient the screen if appropriate, then lock the orientation again" so I'll never, ever have to choose between the frustration of having the screen rotate inappropriately while I'm laying in bed, and screwing with 30 seconds of active gesturing to try and switch it between landscape and portrait. :)

  24. Re:So much for Google's links by broknstrngz · · Score: 1

    Caffeine much? Sorry, didn't observe the title bar.

  25. No legal responsibility. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They aren't selling it. Learn your GPL.

    1. Re:No legal responsibility. by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      What does selling have to do with anything?

    2. Re:No legal responsibility. by vipw · · Score: 1

      Nothing at all. Anonymous Coward seems to be getting less intelligent as he ages.

  26. Re:Stupid projects names by gmuslera · · Score: 2

    If you have to eat your own dogfood, better that it have a tasty name

  27. Re:Stupid projects names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Android release names are actually better than most. The alphabetical order means that you never have to think about whether Honeycomb is more recent than Ice Cream Sandwich. Not sure what they'll do when they get to Android Zagnut (or perhaps Zabaglione), but until that time, they've chosen a naming strategy that's actually somewhat functional.

  28. Re:Some, not all of Honeycomb up for tagging (mayb by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IMHO, not good enough to not release the entire platform

    How about this for rationale: Its their code and they dont owe you a darn thing.

    Seriously, someone comes out with a new semi-revolutionary embedded device OS (revolutionary in that it took the market by storm and is reasonably open / easy to root), and then they release the source for the first several releases. But when they miss one, people act like theyre OWED something. You know what? Go use one of the OTHER open-source phone OSes if you feel so strongly about it.

    Seriously, this sense of entitlement bugs the heck out of me. The world doesnt owe you a thing.

  29. Re:Stupid projects names by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

    People look at me like I'm weird, but I still find myself wanting to pronounce it "bin-gee" ;-)

  30. Only kernel is GPL by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 5, Informative

    The point usually made is that this applies to the android kernel source, which has indeed been promptly released directly to the kernel developers (and for download for anyone who cares). Much more promptly, by the way, than required by the licence.

    It does *NOT* apply to the full android system, nor will it ever. Android itself (the various subprojects have separate licences, which I think you'll find, are all proprietary).

    Just distributing a linux kernel running distribution does *not* make it GPL.

    http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/linus-torvalds-on-android-the-linux-fork/9426

  31. They already released the GPL'd stuff by pavon · · Score: 5, Informative

    Google did release all of Android Honycomb that was GPL'd. In particular the Kernel, and a few other userland tools. However, everything that makes Andrioid Android, and not just another linux distro is licensed under the Apache license which allows for proprietary modifications. This includes the Dalvik VM, the Harmony Java libraries, and the Android APIs. Google was perfectly with the law to not release this code, not to mention the fact that they wrote half of it themselves.

    This has already been discussed ad'nausem on Slashdot, so there is no excuse for this misinformation to be moderated up. I swear only idiots that hardly read the site get moderation points anymore.

    1. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I swear only idiots that hardly read the site get moderation points anymore.

      Microsoft uses reputation management software to create multiple fake social media profiles. Many of them are used to moderate and influence discussion in tech sites like Slashdot.

      There's a tremendous amount of FUD being spread about key competitors. As you've noted, the "Android's not really free/libre" is one of the FUD talking points.

    2. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by Guspaz · · Score: 1, Informative

      There's a tremendous amount of FUD being spread about key competitors. As you've noted, the "Android's not really free/libre" is one of the FUD talking points.

      Uh, well, it's not, really. The Apache license (as well as BSD licenses) make no requirement that the source be provided, so they're not really "free software" licenses in the "freedom" sense... They're certainly not opensource licenses since they make no requirement that the source be open. They're basically just free-as-in-beer distribution licenses; you can share the binaries all you want, but you can't really change them, because nobody is obligated to give you the source to go with those binaries.

    3. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      The Apache license (as well as BSD licenses) make no requirement that the source be provided, so they're not really "free software" licenses in the "freedom" sense

      The Free Software Foundation appears to disagree with you.

      They're certainly not opensource licenses since they make no requirement that the source be open

      The Open Source Initiative appears to disagree with you.

      They're basically just free-as-in-beer distribution licenses; you can share the binaries all you want, but you can't really change them, because nobody is obligated to give you the source to go with those binaries

      And how did they create those binaries? By compiling the source code, which was Apache or BSD licensed. The derived work may be proprietary, but the ASL or BSDL code it open.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by ameen.ross · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure where you could possibly get that kind of information from, and I wonder how such nonsense could earn you 3 mod-ups.

      The Apache v2.0 license is an OSL approved, GPLv3 compatible license and the FSF consider it a free software license. Same thing with the new BSD license. These licenses exist since 2004 and 1999 respectively...

      Now these licenses clearly aren't copyleft. That is, however, a whole other issue.

      --
      $(echo cm0gLXJmIC8= | base64 --decode)
    5. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has already been discussed ad'nausem

      You should have been drowned at birth, seriously.

    6. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Let's look at RMS's own definitions of free software

      - You have the freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose.
      - You have the freedom to modify the program to suit your needs. (To make this freedom effective in practice, you must have access to the source code, since making changes in a program without having the source code is exceedingly difficult.)
      - You have the freedom to redistribute copies, either gratis or for a fee.
      - You have the freedom to distribute modified versions of the program, so that the community can benefit from your improvements.

      According to RMS himself, founder of the FSF, the Apache and BSD licenses are not free software licenses because they specifically violate the second value; the freedom to modify, which requires source code.

    7. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      The founder of the Free Software Foundation appears to agree with me:

      - You have the freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose.
      - You have the freedom to modify the program to suit your needs. (To make this freedom effective in practice, you must have access to the source code, since making changes in a program without having the source code is exceedingly difficult.)
      - You have the freedom to redistribute copies, either gratis or for a fee.
      - You have the freedom to distribute modified versions of the program, so that the community can benefit from your improvements.

      The Apache and BSD licenses violate the second criteria for free software licenses, they do not grant you the freedom to modify the program to suit your needs, because they do not grant you access to the source. You can throw around the binaries to an Apache or BSD licensed program yourself, but nobody is obligated to give you the source. In that way, they're no different than most other freeware. Heck, some of Microsoft's shared source licenses are more open than them.

    8. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by exomondo · · Score: 1

      According to RMS himself, founder of the FSF, the Apache and BSD licenses are not free software licenses because they specifically violate the second value; the freedom to modify, which requires source code.

      That's only in the case where the program is not open source:
      The program must include source code, and must allow distribution in source code as well as compiled form.
      http://www.opensource.org/osd.html

      So if the program is open source, then by definition you have the source code and if that code is licensed under a BSD license then it most certainly complies with RMS's Free Software freedoms.

    9. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      So if I have a BSD-licensed binary, but not the source or any way to get the source, it's not opensource, or free software? If the BSD is only sometimes a free software or opensource license, it's not really free or open at all.

    10. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by exomondo · · Score: 1

      So if I have a BSD-licensed binary, but not the source or any way to get the source, it's not opensource, or free software?

      That's pretty well established in the definitions of both open source and free software, but why would you be licensing only a binary under BSD? What would be the point of that?

      If the BSD is only sometimes a free software or opensource license, it's not really free or open at all.

      Of course it is, if the source code is released under a BSD or ASL then it is just as free - well actually it's even more free (see: permissive) - as GPL-licensed code. The core difference is that BSD- and ASL- licensed code can be used to build non-free products as well, the GPL cannot.

    11. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      but why would you be licensing only a binary under BSD? What would be the point of that?

      Android is a pretty good example, if we're willing to put the ASL in the place of the BSD here. You can get your hands on a bunch of ASL-licensed binaries on your handset, but nobody is obligated to give you the source.

      One of the events that prompted the founding of the FSF was when Stallman wanted to fix a problem with a printer driver, but was forbidden from getting the source. That's not all that different from wanting to fix a problem with your Android handset, but being forbidden from getting the source.

    12. Re:They already released the GPL'd stuff by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Android is a pretty good example, if we're willing to put the ASL in the place of the BSD here. You can get your hands on a bunch of ASL-licensed binaries on your handset, but nobody is obligated to give you the source.

      The ASL license has no relevance then, it is a binary so the source code license is irrelevant precisely because the item in question isn't source code. It isn't free software or open source because it's binaries built from ASL-licensed code where that code is not released. This is permitted in permissive open source licenses which of course means it can be open or closed source and that choice is left purely to the person who wrote the code, which makes sense.

      One of the events that prompted the founding of the FSF was when Stallman wanted to fix a problem with a printer driver, but was forbidden from getting the source. That's not all that different from wanting to fix a problem with your Android handset, but being forbidden from getting the source.

      However the term Free Software, and the Free Software Foundation do not limit themselves to restrictive (as opposed to permissive) free software licenses, they don't try and force you to release your changes if you don't want to, you have the choice.

  32. Haters Thread by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Funny

    OK, here's a thread to post the links to all the haters' comments where they guaranteed that Google had gone Evil and would never release ICS source.

    Granted, I full well expect six people will rebuff, stating that since 4.0.1 was released but not 4.0.0 that they were precisely correct and that this is proof of Google's evil intentions.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Haters Thread by msevior · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah I commented on an earlier article about how much better off we are with Google and Android. I got weirdest set of hate comments. People hate getting their prejudices refuted. It causes massive cognitive dissonance and is physically painful. I have my own and have observed the effect on me.

    2. Re:Haters Thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, here's a thread to post the links to all the haters' comments where they guaranteed that Google had gone Evil and would never release ICS source.

      Granted, I full well expect six people will rebuff, stating that since 4.0.1 was released but not 4.0.0 that they were precisely correct and that this is proof of Google's evil intentions.

      From: android-team@google.com
      To: haters@internet.net
      Subject: ICS and Honeycomb source released

      Y'all can suck it.

      Kiss kiss,
      Android Team at Google

      P.S. Suck it.

    3. Re:Haters Thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a git repo, 4.0.0 is in there too. Also the 3.x source that weren't previously released.

    4. Re:Haters Thread by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, where is that douche that posts hate comments on every Google article? You know, he's the one with the sig demanding that Google release the source for their search engine despite the fact that a) it is unnecessary from a legal perspective and b) it is completely idiotic from a business perspective.

      "Gee, lets give all of our competitors the source code for our free service that made us what we are today simply because some greasy nerd in his mother's basement is throwing a tantrum"

    5. Re:Haters Thread by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 0

      Okay I'll bite. Googled release the source code because they finally reached a tipping point where the damage to their facade of being open sourced was greater than the benefit they were offering their hardware partners of being the first to release a 4.0 device.

      With all their hardware partners releasing their 4.0 phones, Google has no reason to keep the source code to themselves. This way they can keep the facade of being open-source intact and continue to have the loyalty from all their geeky fans.

      How's that?

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    6. Re:Haters Thread by scot4875 · · Score: 2

      Facade? The source is out, how is that "keeping the facade of being open-source"? Do they have to gift wrap DVDs with a little red bow and distribute them from their Street View cars to anyone who asks before you'll count it as being bona fide open source?

      What, pray tell, counts as "open source" in Bill's universe?

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
    7. Re:Haters Thread by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      He said this was a hater's thread... So I obliged him... jesus get some humor.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    8. Re:Haters Thread by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      I hit submit too soon. There is some truth in my humor. The facade is that Google has an open sourced development model, not that the product is technically open sourced. I can grab a nightly snapshot of any of the other truly open-source projects that are out there (firefox, linux kernel, etc.) yet Google only made their source code available after their hardware partners release their phones in order to guarantee their partners an exclusive first release.

      Google perpetuates the open-source development myth with their "Get Involved" and "Philosophy and Goals", then uses excuses like "accelerated release" or "end user experience" as reasons not to fully embrace the open-source development that they try to associate with their product.

      So I hope this explains the Facade part of my comment.

      Yes I answered the parent's challenge, but don't get mad at me if my post hits too close to home for you.

      What, pray tell, counts as "open source" in Bill's universe?

      Delivering the bill of goods that is being advertised. By your reasoning, Microsoft shared source initiative is open source, but that's not the product that's Google is trying to sell.

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
  33. Promised, eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In his Ars Technica article, Ryan Paul uses "Sadly, those promises were never fulfilled"... but he doesn't really justify his use of that word. Not even sure what a promise is in the context of a corporation, but I suspect corporate promises are even more useless than human promises.

  34. Re:Stupid projects names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Couldn't they AT LEAST pick a shorter name? I mean come on, three freakin' words?

    How about "Ice Cream"? Why the hell did they have to add "sandwich" at the end?

  35. Some credit to Google by dell623 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Google are:
    - releasing source code to their operating system for free, under no obligation. The Nook Tablet and Color and Kindle Fire are great examples of how this can work against Google - Android devices that make no payment to Google and do not come with access to Google's Android Marketplace, or Google's proprietary apps.

    - virtually the only major silicon valley company left (compared to Apple, Amazon, IBM, Microsoft, Oracle, Amazon etc) who haven't patent trolled anyone (except in retaliation of course), although they could have, Google still has thousands of patents even though companies like Microsoft have far more, some of them are a lot more important than Apple GUI animation patents. e.g. http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/01/googles-mapreduce-patent-what-does-it-mean-for-hadoop.ars

    - been far better at sticking to privacy promises and openness compared to the likes of Facebook

    - have entire divisions of their company and features that make no revenue for them (and are not R&D projects in hope of future earnings) but are retained. e.g. Free offline and IMAP/SMTP/POP access to gmail from day one, google docs for personal use (I can open and edit files with no ads anywhere), AOSP, Google chrome/ chromium, google.org

    - principled stand on net neutrality

    - taking a principled stand and pulling out of China

    Somehow Google are still constantly attacked, way more than companies like Apple and Microsoft these days, they deserve some credit. Sure, they are far from the do no evil motto, but these days, doing a lot less evil than other megacorps is still remarkable.

    1. Re:Some credit to Google by tokul · · Score: 1

      Free offline and IMAP/SMTP/POP access to gmail from day one

      Check your calendar. For some reason your gmail calendar does not start at April 1, 2004. Your day one is even later than February 7, 2007.

      If you say "who haven't patent trolled anyone (except in retaliation of course)", you have two contradicting statements. You said yourself that they patent trolled someone (in retal).

    2. Re:Some credit to Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is simple really, most people are idiots who can see only in terms of black and white. Google came out and said that they want to do good not evil. Since they have not absolutely perfectly adhered to that the absolutist morons who infest the world, and places like this site will attack them constantly. This allows useless people to feel important by ramming there opinions down the throats of anyone who happens to read them. It is unfortunate but since these truly stupid and completely useless humans far out number everyone else, this kind of behavior will continue to be the norm forever, and the world will continue to be garbage for as long as they exist.

    3. Re:Some credit to Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's always a percentage of haters, and when people don't like something they tend to be more vocal. even if 99% of people loved google people would still attack them.

    4. Re:Some credit to Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >- have entire divisions of their company and features that make no revenue for them (and are not R&D projects in hope of future earnings) but are retained.

      They're metagalactic data gathering operations!

    5. Re:Some credit to Google by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Third party Android devices like the Nook and Fire do benefit google... Sure, they don't pay Google directly or bundle their applications but they raise the profile of Android as a system, increase the user base and therefore encourage application development.
      Users and Applications are what Android, especially on tablets, requires in order to compete with Apple.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    6. Re:Some credit to Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google are:
      - releasing source code to their operating system for free, under no obligation. The Nook Tablet and Color and Kindle Fire are great examples of how this can work against Google - Android devices that make no payment to Google and do not come with access to Google's Android Marketplace, or Google's proprietary apps.

      These devices don't "work against Google". They work alongside Google. I'm sure Google has made a significant profit in part due to releasing their source code for free. These other devices do not detract from that profit and Google would probably have made less if they hadn't released the source code.

    7. Re:Some credit to Google by dell623 · · Score: 1

      No. Apps for the B&N Nook Color/Tablet are incompatible with plain Android. They do more harm than good to Android overall due to fragmentation. Kindle Fire apps may be compatible with plain android or may not require too many changes to be available on both marketplaces, but Amazon does not mention the word Android at all. Only the geeky types know that the Kindle Fire runs Android, None of the presentations, publicity material, anything for the Kindle Fire even mentions the word Android.

      So no, Google gains little from open sourcing Android. Crappy Chinese tablets damage the reputation of Android, forks take the Android code and give Google no revenue or credit.

    8. Re:Some credit to Google by dell623 · · Score: 1

      Ok not day one, but still in 2004: http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20041110192454841

      Not 2007. Not that it makes a difference, you're just nitpicking. Google have completely transformed several major applications - the search engine, the browser, online maps, and hosted email. Somehow, that never gets the kind of attention that Steve Jobs 'revolutions' do. Most people are not too old to remember pre Google search engines, web based email that used to give you 5-10 MB of storage with ads plastered all over an awful interface, and single process browsers that used to crash with all your open webpages, consumed insane amount of memory and were painfully slow.

    9. Re:Some credit to Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The kids on Slashdot are afraid of anything with a Marketing department.

    10. Re:Some credit to Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google is no longer an underdog. We're required to hate them.

    11. Re:Some credit to Google by Scoth · · Score: 1

      I have a Nook Simple Touch, rooted, and run all kinds of stuff on it.

      But not one other person I've talked to with one even realizes its Android, much less anything else.

      The Nook Color owners are often a little more aware, but I know several people that bought them specifically to root. Plenty of the other owners still have no idea what it's running underneath. If you look on the sales pages for all the various Nooks you won't find a bit of Android on them. You can't install standard Android apps on them without rooting/hacking, and even then you may end up with unideal button arrangements (since they don't have even the usual required Android buttons).

      If anything, all them being Android does is increase their interest to the geek community and doesn't do much at all to raise Android in the public awareness.

    12. Re:Some credit to Google by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      As I recall their stated purpose for Android was promoting more access to the web from mobile devices, so that they could then expand the market for their web-based technologies. I'd say that is successful whether they collect license fees for the OS or not.

      As long as the Nook has a web browser then it is mission accomplished for Google. That web browser will be pointed at Google-owned sites, and based on the cookies/etc it ends up gathering it increases Google's knowledge of the consumer in a new domain and thus increases their advertising power.

      I can't say whether their strategy will work out, but every $50 smartphone that is sold that doesn't run Android is a success for Android by their original goals. They turned smartphones from $500 items owned by the fairly well-to-do or for business use only to something that might sell 3 units to a family of 4.

  36. You have warped sense of priorities by pem · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you put a free website as more evil than a dongle-encryped piece of crap that you pay thousands of dollars for.

    1. Re:You have warped sense of priorities by iluvcapra · · Score: 0

      If you put a free as in beer website as more evil than a dongle-encryped piece of crap that you pay thousands of dollars for.

      FTFY. Nobody gets points for distributing freeware, particularly if the freeware is just a portal to ads, pay services, and personal data mining.

      People pay thousands of dollars for Linux support contracts and Linux is not a piece of crap. Well, it's a little bit of a piece of crap here and there, if it wasn't a little bit crappy they wouldn't be able to sell the support contracts, would they? :)

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    2. Re:You have warped sense of priorities by djjockey · · Score: 2

      I think it was a hierarchy of open-ness, not evil-ness.

    3. Re:You have warped sense of priorities by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It depends on what that "free" website is doing with your information.

      Dongles are a remarkably fair means of copyright protection if nothing prevents you from taking the dongle from machine to machine. Until they are hacked wide open (as all of them have been, heh heh... HASP key is useless for software so expensive, tools!) they provide a means of permitting you to install the software as you like and still only run one copy at a time. And if the software is worth the money to you, then you buy the software. If I had an auto shop, I would want alldata, and I wouldn't give a shit about the HASP key.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:You have warped sense of priorities by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      In term of potential for evil then yes, a free website is worse. With a website (free or not) you have absolutely no control. At least, with dongle-encrypted software, you don't have to hand over your data, and they can't modify the software without your consent.

  37. Mmph by symbolset · · Score: 1, Informative

    There are people on slashdot who see it as their mission to paint Google evil for any reason. If they can misinterpret a license that most people don't understand and thus incorrectly hold it out as Google being evil, that's what they're going to do. It doesn't play very well, if you look around this thread - in fact, they're probably doing their "evil Google" campaign more harm than good trying it here where so many active participants actually know better. They should take their work to PCWorld and CNet, where it would work better. Yet still, they try here but don't be misled: It's not about license compliance, it's about getting some tar on Google any way they can in the minds of folk who don't know better. They're not really GPL fans or they would understand what is required, and why, and that Google is - and has always been - in compliance with the terms and above that generous with contributions of all sorts.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  38. Re:Stupid projects names by cynyr · · Score: 0

    Version 10.0: "Cheetah"
    Version 10.1: "Puma"
    Version 10.2: "Jaguar"
    Version 10.3: "Panther"
    Version 10.4: "Tiger"
    Version 10.5: "Leopard"
    Version 10.6: "Snow Leopard"
    Version 10.7: "Lion"

    because large cats are soooo much better than desserts....

    --
    All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
  39. Re:Stupid projects names by whoop · · Score: 1

    So not to be confused with their previous release, Froyo. Their picture in your mind would be practically the same. Now it's more distinct.

  40. Re:Stupid projects names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In Googlemerica, you eat OS.

    In Soviet Apple, OS eats YOU!

  41. Re:Stupid projects names by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    Like how Apple names their OS releases after big cats, because big cats and operating systems have so much in common?

    Because Apple users are pussies? /Ducks

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  42. Not GPL, Apache2 license by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 5, Informative

    Android isn't GPL. Its an Apache2 license. Only the Linux kernel is GPL and they have been releasing the source for the kernel mods on time.

  43. ICS and WP7.5 by TheRealQuestor · · Score: 1

    Two great OS's that breath new life into my now ancient but still awesome HTC HD2 or as WP sees it, HD7 :) If this thing had a front facing camera I would never want to get rid of it. Gingerbread is getting kinda old now but I find it more "fun" to use than WP7.5 but I find WP7.5 more fun to hack around with and use on a day to day basis. Now if I could just stop it from DESTROYING my battery.

  44. Re:Stupid projects names by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

    >>Speaking of names, how about Bing? What kind of a name is that?

    There was talk for a while inside of Microsoft of naming it Koomuk. (Cumook? Cumik? Something like that.)

    Compared to that, "Bing" is fucking brilliant.

  45. Re:Stupid projects names by advocate_one · · Score: 1

    No, it has to be a sweet... so it would be Chocolate Coated Bacon... sadly, we would then have to wait for it to wrap right round the alphabet to come back through "C"... they're doing it in alphabetical order if you hadn't noticed...

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
  46. Anyone actually tried 4 on the emulator? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I found it buggy! The home screen crashes periodically, and the camera app also crashes on opening.

    1. Re:Anyone actually tried 4 on the emulator? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Perhaps that's why the version that ships on Galaxy Nexus is 4.0.1?

  47. Re:Stupid projects names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speaking of names, how about Bing? What kind of a name is that?

    Self-descriptive.

    Bing Is Not Google.

  48. Re:Stupid projects names by unixisc · · Score: 1

    So Microsoft follows the GNU recursive acronym naming scheme?

  49. Re:Stupid projects names by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1
    --
    My other account has a 3-digit UID.
  50. Re:Stupid projects names by Per+Wigren · · Score: 1

    I'm looking forward to version 10.8: "Lolcat" and version 10.9: "Pussy".

    --
    My other account has a 3-digit UID.
  51. Re:Don't be kissing Googles ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can I type make install? Or are we still in tivo land?

    I can, but then again, I got myself a Nexus S because I didn't want to give my money to a manufacturer who doesn't care about my rights as a consumer.

  52. Starting Countdown ... by garry_g · · Score: 1

    ... to many devices with ICS ... guess the CyanogenMod team has already locked itself in the attic and is coding ;)

    Thanks to both Google for the code and of course the Modders for their work!!!

  53. Oh jeez, not this s**t again! by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    [BSD/Apache are] not really "free software" licenses in the "freedom" sense...

    Bzzzt! Bzzt! Going to Orange Alert on the yet-another-BSD-vs.-GPL-holy-war-thread-hijack warning scale.

    Incident has not occurred yet, but danger of tedious rabid zealots taking over the thread with a repeat of the same boring discussion is high.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  54. Re:Stupid projects names by rwa2 · · Score: 1

    Ha, yeah, at least with the dessert names you can tell which one is the latest.

    Though I suppose the large cats help indicate what they will do to your wallet when they're released... om nom nom.

  55. Re:Some, not all of Honeycomb up for tagging (mayb by fph+il+quozientatore · · Score: 1

    The same applies to code comments, so let's filter out all comments before releasing the source!

    --
    My first program:

    Hell Segmentation fault

  56. anons: never failing to troll firstposts by poetmatt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They were never evil. They're not MS/Apple. Do you have a short term memory loss? Honeycomb was withheld, and they told people why.

    They said basically honeycomb was a bad implementation, they didn't want people to move forward with it, they do want people to move forward on ICS. It's not like a "honeycomb is a goddamn secret!" This has been announced like 500x. It's like a design for a car that they say "this design causes engines to explode" so they don't release the design. Is this a surprise that they then release ICS source? Did you hear them say "ICS is a bad implementation"? No.

    That's not a lack of transparency either, they announced this repeatedly.

    [Andy] Rubin says that if Google were to open-source the Honeycomb code now, as it has with other versions of Android at similar periods in their development, it couldn't prevent developers from putting the software on phones "and creating a really bad user experience. We have no idea if it will even work on phones." "Android is an open-source project," he adds. "We have not changed our strategy."

    1. Re:anons: never failing to troll firstposts by Raenex · · Score: 1

      They were never evil. They're not MS/Apple. Do you have a short term memory loss? Honeycomb was withheld, and they told people why.

      Yes, they were evil. It doesn't matter what the excuse is, open source means you release the source, no excuses.

      [Andy] Rubin says that if Google were to open-source the Honeycomb code now, as it has with other versions of Android at similar periods in their development, it couldn't prevent developers from putting the software on phones "and creating a really bad user experience.

      Which is exactly the excuse that Apple makes for all kinds of lockdown.

    2. Re:anons: never failing to troll firstposts by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      Wow, you sure have the least facts out of anything I've ever seen. Last I checked the amount of facts there, is zero.
      "Yes, they're Evil" Ok, you create a point of your own. WHY? where is the actual explanation instead of a waste of text?

      Tell me, since when does open source (which doesn't mean what you falsely imply it does) explicitly say they can't do what is exactly within the apache license, dumbass? That was a link directly from slashdot.

      Apple makes all sorts of excuses for lockdowns. They are not real "bad user experience" excuses. They are censorship. . That's not the same as a "bad user experience" as defined by google.

      So lets look back. Google makes honeycomb, it looks like shit (and runs horribly), so they say acknowledge it publicly stating "bad user experience". Apple goes anti-jailbreaking and uses the excuse of "it's a bad user experience"? Do you understand the difference between the two? methinks you're somewhere between petarded and a complete fail.

    3. Re:anons: never failing to troll firstposts by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      oh, and just to shut you up further:
      did you read https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/android-building/T4XZJCZnqF8 ? I was hoping I wouldn't have to mention it, but here goes: It's called "they are releasing honeycomb source as well".

      Open source means you don't use the term as a hammer and make stupid statements. At least optimally.

    4. Re:anons: never failing to troll firstposts by Raenex · · Score: 1

      Somebody else already addressed the open source issue. As for the "bad user experience" thing, Apple can validly claim it's for the user experience just like Google can. Just read Jobs' Thoughts on Flash. After Adobe is making moves to abandon Flash, it actually makes him sound spot on.

      Now why should you give Google a free pass, because "Google knows best"? They said they would open source it, they didn't. They used an excuse Apple uses all the time -- an excuse that is at least plausible, though it isn't one I accept from either company.

    5. Re:anons: never failing to troll firstposts by DaVince21 · · Score: 2

      They were never evil. MS was never evil. Apple was never evil.

      It's just that sometimes they make bad business decisions. Sometimes these decisions come forth from a particular manager in the company being corrupt (ie. evil, I suppose). Sometimes, shareholders have terrible ideas. This does not make the company itself evil. Hundreds, thousands of people work there. Calling the company "evil" makes it sound like anyone who works there is, too, and at that point, you're just sounding ignorant.

      --
      I am not devoid of humor.
    6. Re:anons: never failing to troll firstposts by Raenex · · Score: 1

      It's all in the context of actions. When a company adopts a "Don't be evil" motto, it's clearly in a reaction to perceived evilness in how companies routinely ignore ethics in their decision making.

      One action does not make Google an evil company, and that was not what I was saying. Google was "evil" in the particular decision to make an open source promise and then break it for a "bad user experience" excuse. That's what this thread is about.

    7. Re:anons: never failing to troll firstposts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's like a design for a car that they say "this design causes engines to explode" so they don't release the design.

      No, it's more like saying "this design causes engines to explode, if you try to use it with a petrol engine." Sure, but why not release the design for those who'd want to use it with diesels?

      Their reason was only a good reason *for half of the market*. The other half, tablet users, could have used that source code usefully. The fact that it wouldn't work on phones wouldn't be an issue for them.

      Because there was no 3.0 source release, all of the cheap tablet manufacturers are still releasing 2.3-based tablets. It'll probably be 6 months before we see a cheap brand tablet based on ICS. Which means that adoption of Android in tablets is lagging because all the people trying cheap ones are finding that it lacks in features compared to iOS. That's a bad user experience, and it's real, not some mythical problem about people home-upgrading phones to a version of the system that doesn't work on a phone despite all the warnings, which isn't a bad user experience, it's a "user's own damned stupid fault" user experience.

  57. Unfounded criticism of Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Allright, the fuss around Honeycomb was just open source fundementalist paranoia, Google did what they promised and released the full source with history tree. We even have Honeycomb code out, now that it's useless. Expect Apple and folks to scan it for patent violations. And other folks to begin porting it to all available devices. Maybe we'll see it running on a phone before Galaxy Nexus "Prime" is out :) And please, in custom roms, reenable stuff that Apple patented (menu end scrolling thing).

  58. Without any release tags by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

    Scans through check in comments

    ***But ugly hack not for release branch***
     
    ***Hack to make shit Samsung hardware work. Dog eating incompetents***
     
    ***Fuck Qualcomm with a chainsaw***
     
    ***Fucking HTC can't get anything right****
     
    ***Secret codes for Gmail sync. If these aren't present there's a 1% chance the server will delete all your emails, cancel reminders for meetings before 9am, and other bad stuff. If this leaks we'll get done under anti trust law****
     
    ***This is evil, but we need to tell the Gmail server we're a Google device not an iShit or Very Bad Things Will Happen to us too,***
     
    ***Fucking Apple got the codes - added a new set which will go live in a year**
     
    *** Obfuscated code as per request from Legal ***
     
    *** Removed all "illegal" code client side ***

    Yeah, I think we'll just strip all the metadata.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  59. Finally!!! by mmontuori · · Score: 1

    Finally released... http://www.montuori.net/

  60. Give me ICS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you like the Ice Cream Sandwich wallpapers I found a site that has them. I really like the site, it's not cluttered and it's easy to get around because It's formatted for mobile.www.freedroidwallpaper.com

  61. Re:Not good enough! by zeroshade · · Score: 1

    Just pick the revision of it there. Because the 3.0 source code, rolled back before any 4.x changes exists in that repository. Good job :)

  62. Re:Some, not all of Honeycomb up for tagging (mayb by Raenex · · Score: 1

    It's not a matter of entitlement, it's a matter of holding people to their promises. If you want all the accolades and fuzzy warmth from adopting open source, then live by it. Otherwise, expect backlash, and rightfully so.

    Seriously, the Google apologists bug the heck out of me.

  63. You mean.... by sethmeisterg · · Score: 1

    ...Google's NOT evil? Oh my L-rd, What are all the whiny a-holes on Slashdot to do now???

  64. It clearly wasn't open source...until now by exomondo · · Score: 1

    Tell me, since when does open source (which doesn't mean what you falsely imply it does) explicitly say they can't do what is exactly within the apache license, dumbass?

    It doesn't become open source until you actually release that source code, if MS said the Windows source was under BSD license but never released the code would you consider it to be open source?
    Up until now Honeycomb was closed source for the obvious reason that the source code was not released, hence not open.

    Except from the Open Source definition:
    The program must include source code, and must allow distribution in source code as well as compiled form.
    http://www.opensource.org/osd.html

    Just to be clear the only one of the GP's assertions I agree with is that Honeycomb wasn't open source (until now) and I wouldn't even say Google is 'evil' for not releasing it earlier, in fact I entirely understand and support them doing so, their reasoning made perfect sense. But it's obvious that Honeycomb was closed-source up until now.

  65. Re:Stupid projects names by johnsnails · · Score: 1

    Yes, yes it is. Compared to Hitler, Stalin was brilliant as well! Actually i have no idea who was worse and not trying to start anything. But you get my point... Now will I get urs?

  66. Re:Stupid projects names by johnsnails · · Score: 1

    hahah, I have total respect for the name now :P Might send them over a bottle of wine for choosing such a great name.