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Institutional Memory and Reverse Smuggling

An anonymous reader writes "Anyone who's worked in a large engineering firm is familiar with institutional amnesia. Things get built, and then forgotten. Documentation is supposed to help, but rots, is lost, or uses obsolete methods and notation nobody understands anymore. I recently found myself in a strange position, rehired as a consultant with the unofficial job of reminding the company how an old plant works. I even have some personal copies of documents they seem to have lost, which I have to awkwardly smuggle back in. I don't find these kinds of experience written about often, but I'm convinced they're more common than you'd think."

312 comments

  1. This problem is quite common. by ksd1337 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A very relevant area where this problem can be readily seen is computer data formats.

    1. Re:This problem is quite common. by YayaY · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yep, It happens all the time everywhere.

      What I find most troubling about this is that most company don't recognize the problem or are not even aware of it? I think the mentality that "anyone can be replaced so we don't have to create incentive to retain them" is going a bit too far.

      Because the real problem is in fact employee turnover.

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    2. Re:This problem is quite common. by Altrag · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because the real problem is in fact employee turnover.

      When you're talking about a scale of decades, including economic downturns with hiring freezes and whatnot, employee turnover is a fact of life. No one works in the same place forever, no matter how good the incentives are to stay. Even if you can stop them from changing jobs, they might retire. Even if you manage to make their job so compelling that they don't retire, death will eventually get them. And good luck getting ghosts to work for you in any meaningful way.

      Its purely a management problem. Data retention over long periods of time is a real challenge, and one that most people don't care about because well.. out of sight, out of mind. Put a token effort towards data management when someone important is looking (investors, higher management, whatever). And then redirect the money to more immediate problems as soon as the heat is off.

      Remember, the quarterly report is king. Trying to predict and prevent problems that may or may not crop up 10 years from now seems less relevant when you have to make not only profits, but record profits year after year or risk your stock price plummeting.

    3. Re:This problem is quite common. by turbidostato · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Because the real problem is in fact employee turnover."

      That's not as much a problem as a reality you'd better learn to live with.

      Look: there's only two ways for an employer-employee relationship to end up: either the company closes business or the employee goes out. Since the company as an entity isn't so interested on the afterthoughts of its own end, there's only an interesting case to consider: the employee will go away. That's as valid for the janitor as is for the general manager.

      So it is not "anyone can be replaced" but "anyone *will* be replaced".

    4. Re:This problem is quite common. by Tehrasha · · Score: 1
      Because the real problem is in fact employee turnover.

      Exactly. I have a small stash of engineering design models and proto-boards which I saved from the scrap heap. I cant count the number of new engineers whom I have rescued from reinventing the wheel, by showing them our previous versions of it.

  2. Been there, done that: by Hartree · · Score: 5, Funny

    But the NDAs keep me and everyone else involved from talking about it. :P

    1. Re:Been there, done that: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could everything we know be forgotten? (Solar flare or EMP? )

    2. Re:Been there, done that: by Hartree · · Score: 1

      Don't even need that. Just time, alzheimers and screwed up documentation.

    3. Re:Been there, done that: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what the Anonymous Coward is for! Let's say "he"... "heard"... you all talking about it in private with his "SuperSpy 5000!!!11one".

      Now tick that box and tell us what went down, fool! ;)

  3. It's common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A unnamed corp where I use to work would hire retired employees for contract work at high per hour wages for months due to issues like this.

    1. Re:It's common by brusk · · Score: 5, Funny

      Maybe if the company had given itself a name it would have been easier for it to keep track of information.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    2. Re:It's common by frisket · · Score: 1

      I'm hoping mine will do the same for me :-)

  4. Absolutely true by cvtan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have personally witnessed this happen with my former employer. Higher ups seemed to think that there was some benefit to the company "memory" or "team experience" if we almost brought a product to market. People would argue that at least we now had the experience to do this again in the future if we had to. Totally wrong. Teams were broken up and key players re-assigned. Some people left the company or moved to divisions physically remote from their former bosses. Any reports written could not be used to replicate anything useful and, to be honest, who would write a report explaining the history of an unsuccessful product? It never happens. Real knowledge is lost in a barrage of wasteful spending.

    --
    Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
    1. Re:Absolutely true by Mr+Z · · Score: 3, Informative

      Where I work, we've mined many products which failed to reach the market for good ideas. Often, there were many good ideas in there, it was just the package as a whole that didn't work out. (Either too early, too late, too big or too small.) But, we've also had good continuity among our key folks (myself included), so that probably explains why it ends up working. We understood why we put those features in failed product X, and so we understand how they'd work in new, more viable product Y. We also understand at least something about why X failed, so we can try to avoid it on Y.

      But again, that does rely on institutional memory to make it work.

    2. Re:Absolutely true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Care to let us know where you work? :)

  5. I see this in code I work on all the time by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Somebody writes the code, doesn't bother to comment it at all and then you come in years after the fact. You look at the code and wonder, "why did he do it that way instead of this way?" Then the big gotcha, you think I could ask him but he left the company 5 years ago(At this point slap your forehead and hope you don't break anything working on the code.)

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    1. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Somebody writes the code, doesn't bother to comment it at all and then you come in years after the fact. You look at the code and wonder, "why did he do it that way instead of this way?" Then the big gotcha, you think I could ask him but he left the company 5 years ago(At this point slap your forehead and hope you don't break anything working on the code.)

      One way to mitigate this is "extreme programming" where developers pair and constantly switch off projects and tasks. You end up with a larger body of people that understand the code and comments and code that is much more understandable because if you write it in a way that isn't, someone will notice the next week, complain and you have to go back and fix it.

      Also, if you're hoping you don't break anything, hopefully you have a battery of unit tests and functional regression tests that will catch the lion's share of anything you might break and let you know in short order.

    2. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Even worse, it sometimes turns out that YOU wrote the code 10+ years ago, and you have absolutely no clue why it was written that way.

    3. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by cbuhler · · Score: 1

      I have this problem exactly. And even if I did document it, I probably assumed that what ever it was doing was obvious so didn't really spell it out.

    4. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by zill · · Score: 4, Funny

      You guys have it easy. Sometime when I write a comment I for-SQUIRRELS!

    5. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I understand the point you are making when I hear the term "Extreme Programming" my imagination runs wild.

      Are your trying to run with the Bulls in Pamplona while trying to figure where that Division by zero takes place?

    6. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 1, Troll

      While I understand the point you are making when I hear the term "Extreme Programming" my imagination runs wild.

      Yeah and the term for writing computer programs is "coding" and the anode on a battery is labeled "-" those are the dreadfully inappropriate terms that stuck. Deal with it.

      Are your[sic] trying to run with the Bulls[sic] in Pamplona while trying to figure where that Division[sic] by zero takes place?

      Yes I am, but that is unrelated to the term "extreme programming". Also, you improperly capitalized "Bulls" and "Division"; maybe you've been watching too much basketball?

    7. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      10 years? For me it's more like 2 weeks

    8. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You guys have it easy. Sometime when I write a comment I for-SQUIRRELS!

      What the hell does this mean?

    9. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's totally true. One time I was going through an old perl script and I wondered what kind of asshole would write something like that. Turned out I was that asshole.

    10. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It doesn't work. You'd need people that follow the same coding practices and have enough experience to move at the same pace. Which is pretty much impossible.

      Maybe not impossible, but unlikely, you would need people who worked together for a very long time, unheard of in IT since we're talking about years.

    11. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by heypete · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a reference to this scene from the Pixar movie "Up".

    12. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Up" referen... SQUIRRELS! ....
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBWrMQVsuak

    13. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It means he's easily distracted.

      Oh look, a squirrel.

    14. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by hibiki_r · · Score: 1

      First, enough turnover will always kill you no matter your procedures. If a team turns over 75% of its developers in 6 months, there's nothing to be done. So step 1: make sure your developers don't want to quit.

      But even if you are using TDD or BDD, even a bit of sloppiness here and there can still leave you with a very hard to solve puzzle. Maybe a unit test isn't maintained well enough, and it passes even though the code isn't really doing what the test description said. It keeps passing for a year. Then, you go back, and a change makes the unit test go back towards its originally intended codepath and starts failing. But at that point, we do not know anymore if the releases for the last year have been bad, the requirements were bad in the first place, or what. All it takes is the right kind of slip up. And even with the best intentions, there's always slip ups.

    15. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For me that could be a couple of days. I keep a lot of stuff in my head and old stuff gets pushed out pretty quick.

      This is why I don't use languages like Lisp, OCaml and Scala. They are very flexible and powerful, too flexible, and often you end up writing something "bizarre" that can't be easily comprehended later.

    16. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by oakgrove · · Score: 2

      What the hell does this mean

      I don't know. Let me think abou-SQUIRRELS.

      --
      The soylentnews experiment has been a dismal failure.
    17. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He just got distracted by a squirrel. It's a joke.

    18. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by GreyLurk · · Score: 1

      It's possible that AC is a native German speaker, and knows English as a second language. In German, nouns are all capitalized.

    19. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure he was just making a joke.

    20. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by v1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      hopefully you have a battery of unit tests and functional regression tests

      Or just plain boobytrap the code all over the place with sanity checks and known gotcha conditions, spiked with good comments and explanations.

      I ran across that just last week when developing an importer for iTunes music library - reusing an xml class I wrote 3 yrs ago, it blew out on me with a "you're being STUPID" sort of error message just under a dozen times during development. Opening up said code block revealed comments I made when I wrote the sanity check, describing WHY it had coughed up the message, and more importantly, what was causing the problem.

      I of course had little to no memory of ever writing them, but there they were, providing me an instant catch-me-up in the why's of my code, and saved me from having to relearn all the internals and subtleties that went into writing that bug-free, beautiful, and time-saving class of code.

      That's one of the great things about having a poor long-term memory - it forces you to comment (and liberally sanity check) your own code well, not because someone else will need it, but because you are going to need it. You get to be the direct beneficiary of your own good practices.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    21. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 2

      It doesn't work. You'd need people that follow the same coding practices and have enough experience to move at the same pace. Which is pretty much impossible.

      Heh, it's funny since the place I work now has been making money doing it for a decade. People don't have to have the exact same level of experience to work on the same code and hand it off, especially when working as pairs in a group environment where you can always just ask the team if you don't understand something. You learn a whole lot faster when sharing a keyboard with someone who already has been working on the code base for a few years.

    22. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, every software team needs published coding standards and practices. This is independent of the process they use... unless they are using "Cowboy Coding".

      Second, moving at the same pace is a matter of discipline and is quite possible. I have had the experience of pair programming with a complete novice. We made good progress, the novice understood what we were doing, the quality of work was high, and it was understandable long after it was written ... by folk that had been hired in the interim.

    23. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But why would he write down "SQUIRRELS" and then press Submit?

    24. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 2

      First, enough turnover will always kill you no matter your procedures. If a team turns over 75% of its developers in 6 months, there's nothing to be done. So step 1: make sure your developers don't want to quit.

      Turnover is very harmful, but as I said spreading out the coding tasks across a whole team mitigates the damage and allows you to scale back up to efficiency in a reasonable timeframe. Brooks law states, "adding manpower to a late software project makes it later", but I've seen it proved false. With paired programming adding 50% more programmers on a late project did not slow our development at all and within a few weeks it had sped up significantly. The caveat being you have to be doing paired programming in the first place.

      Maybe a unit test isn't maintained well enough, and it passes even though the code isn't really doing what the test description said.

      With good coding practices, relevant tests should be written and modified so they fail before you start coding anything new on the actual project. Additionally, with good QA practices there should be a separately maintained functional regression test that should catch the vast majority of things a unit test does not. Of course not all of this applies to all kinds of projects and there will still be bugs, but the kind of unmaintainable code no one understands that sticks around in an active project, well it just is really, really, really rare.

      And even with the best intentions, there's always slip ups.

      True, but with good practices they become a very rare event that does not have real impact on the work.

    25. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure he was just making a joke.

      Me too... which is why I responded in kind.

    26. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      It's possible that AC is a native German speaker, and knows English as a second language. In German, nouns are all capitalized.

      I considered this, but the text at argument would then be:

      "Are you trying to run with the Bulls in Pamplona while trying to figure where that Division by Zero takes Place?"

      Notice that the last two nouns in the original were not capitalized. Also, even native Germans tend to not follow capitalization rules even in German on web forums and the like.

      --
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    27. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by ATMAvatar · · Score: 2

      In any decently large system, you could have pristine code with perfect documentation and *still* run into problems when a new person tries to maintain it due to lost integration knowledge.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    28. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Mr+Z · · Score: 2

      There are some pieces of code at work where the "constantly switch off projects and tasks" has been applied almost as an anti-pattern. Glue scripts with code dating back 15 years, where probably a dozen or more different folks have gone in and made their "one little tweak", trying not to disturb the rest. We end up with a script with 50 flags, and who knows what subset of those flags is still relevant or really works.

      Every so often, someone goes in there and removes some of the cruft, but it is still the result of dozen or more people hacking and slashing to "get something working." Half or more of the "comments" in the code are commented-out old versions of some code path that had been tweaked for the present need. Scar tissue abounds. Looking at the script now, I see one if-statement where all the code in the body of the if-statement is commented out, but the if itself isn't. Lovely! Tons of short blocks of code commented only with a cryptic test-case ID that triggered the need. (Note: These aren't test cases for the script, these are test cases the script loads into something else.)

      And yet, the code continues to function. And it does get tested. The particular script I'm thinking of that's the most egregious offender sits at the heart of a verification flow: It launches the design under test.

    29. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh, I write code and 5 years later I sometimes don't have a clue why I did it that way, or worse, see what I did and think "WTF was I thinking?".

    30. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by west · · Score: 2

      What I really, really hate is looking at the code that I wrote 10 years ago

      - finding it could be much more elegant and more efficient
      - assuming I was an idiot
      - rewriting the code to make it much more efficient
      - and then finding out that the optimization misses a really subtle corner case
      - and finally remembering that, yeah, I wasted 3 days hitting this stupid corner case years ago...

      Now every time I do something even slightly non-obvious, I document *why*, not just *how*.

    31. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by CapOblivious2010 · · Score: 1

      Somebody writes the code, doesn't bother to comment it at all and then you come in years after the fact. You look at the code and wonder, "why did he do it that way instead of this way?" Then the big gotcha, you think I could ask him but he left the company 5 years ago(At this point slap your forehead and hope you don't break anything working on the code.)

      One way to mitigate this is "extreme programming" where developers pair and constantly switch off projects and tasks. You end up with a larger body of people that understand the code and comments and code

      Nice theory - in practice you end up with code that nobody understands, because it never looks anything like what you vaguely remember it looking like, and it ends up being a hodge-podge of different approaches and re-invented wheels. Sort of like programming by committee.

      Having experienced both ends of the spectrum, I think small tightly-focused teams (3-5 devs) are the solution - any smaller than that, and you're taking too much risk if someone gets hit by a truck; any larger than that and you end up with an incomprehensible mess that strictly adheres to trivial coding standards.

    32. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because on Slashdot you cannot see him look away and say SQUIRRELS!

    33. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Coding practices shouldn't be an issue. If an opensource project like FreeBSD can make people adhere to a style, then I don't personally see any reason why an employer couldn't do the same. Other than the obvious incompetent management trying to save a buck.

      The employer definitely can enforce style requirements, but generally doesn't due to lack of interest in paying for it to be done legibly the first time. A bit like spackling over junction boxes because it's cheaper only to find later that a repair needs to be done and you have no idea where that dern box is.

    34. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      One way to mitigate this is "extreme programming" where developers pair and constantly switch off projects and tasks

      The problem with extreme programming (and with all good practice, really) is that it's inefficient (in the context of getting it out the door). It has a cost. Management doesn't want to pay for good practice now - now they want to pay for shipping the code. Three years later, then they decide they want good practice, only it's now impossible to implement for all the reasons noted in the article, and the comments.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    35. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by ninetyninebottles · · Score: 1

      The problem with extreme programming (and with all good practice, really) is that it's inefficient (in the context of getting it out the door). It has a cost. Management doesn't want to pay for good practice now - now they want to pay for shipping the code.

      That is called "incompetence" and is very common in management. I'm sorry you have to work with clueless managers that don't know their business. If you don't insist on good practices for your coders for a long term project it is unlikely any first rate talent wants to work with you anyway.

    36. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So many true points in this world are overshadowed by poor delivery. Also, your excessive and needless use of "[sic]" makes you look like a tool; maybe you have something to prove?

    37. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by chooks · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of my days writing PERL...which must be the closest thing to simulating coding-while-under-chemical-influence:

      When writing everything seems so clear, understandable, and simple. A regexp here, bless something there. Then come back 2 weeks later and BAM! What they hell was I thinking when I wrote that??? What does that regexp even do? (cue jwz regexp quote here).

      --
      -- The Genesis project? What's that?
    38. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Ja'Achan · · Score: 1

      My "code memory" goes about 6 months back. Everything expected to last longer than that needs extensive documentation or I'll have no clue to what it does any more. Know this means that pretty much all my code is documented =)

    39. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by janzen · · Score: 1

      Well said. A good way to think about and to organize your sanity checks is to follow Bertrand Meyers' practice of programming by contract. If you check preconditions and postconditions in your code (even if only during test runs), you'll catch all sorts of misbehaviour early.

    40. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "I ran across that just last week when developing an importer for iTunes music library - reusing an xml class I wrote 3 yrs ago, it blew out on me with a "you're being STUPID" sort of error message just under a dozen times during development. Opening up said code block revealed comments I made when I wrote the sanity check, describing WHY it had coughed up the message, and more importantly, what was causing the problem."

      That's gold advice. I write all my code like this and it really really helps.

      Solid and rugged wins the day. Yes, it takes a little longer, but I (and ultimately my clients) appreciate that it's worth while.

    41. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by znrt · · Score: 1

      "Extreme programming" refers to a set of practices in sw development that have been around since the late 90's. Most of them are nowadays known by the new buzzword "Agile programming" (bell ringing now?), which refers greatly to the same old techniques plus new hype plus an invigorated emphasis on scrum all over the process.

      The referred practices are solid and have their concrete applications and advantages. Adopted blindly they are just another way to sell smoke while compromising the viability of your product/team. I guess this will never change, but, hey, having new buzzwords around is always cool!

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extreme_programming

    42. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by drainbramage · · Score: 1

      But is space no one can hear-SQUIRRELS!

      --
      No brain, no pain.
    43. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Been there! I've looked at old programs, asked myself "What idiot wrote this?", and then saw the Author's name. Oops!

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    44. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by umghhh · · Score: 1

      not really true -in old good times we used pair programming (this was not called that yet) for people starting at the job to couch them into experience mode. Today we have pair programming to watch for faults and enable faster problem resolution and if so then both guys should have at least some experience but still it works well in most cases. It is expensive however as two people have to sit there. Nobody said that some agile practice cannot be good.

    45. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by umghhh · · Score: 1

      it happened to me few times but then I was not agile still - now I am fully agile and I do not care. I think that is what my bosses wanted anyway. What I also observed is that clear and well structured code is usually abused for fixes of the shit that is complex and difficult to maintain in other modules - the code is converging together with all the subsidiaries towards common usually ugly denominator.

    46. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by avandesande · · Score: 1

      I think this is one of the reasons for mature code in older developers- you just can't do the mental gymnastics any more so you make things clear and simple :-)

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    47. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Indeed, I have found code of mine and said "damn, that isn't right, what the hell was I thinking.....jesus!.....well I'll just fix this right up, make it the way it's supposed to be and...." Two days later (or a month or two later after I actually release the iteration) I get contacted from users asking me why X doesn't work. I then track down those wonderful changes I made ti "fix things" and realize...oh yeah, that six year old working code was like that for a reason! Needless to say, a couple of those inciddents and my documentation has become a lot more prolific, much more to the why scale.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    48. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Half or more of the "comments" in the code are commented-out old versions of some code path that had been tweaked for the present need.

      The first thing I do when inheriting old code is remove all the commented out code. All of it, without even looking at it.

      How the hell am I going to use commented out code that no longer has context? What nearby code has been added since then? What nearby commented out code was disabled at a different time? There's no way to tell so I blow it all away.

      If I want to know what changes have been made I diff it with the previous version. Why leave a bunch of cruft in a file when you have diff?

    49. Re:I see this in code I work on all the time by Eristone · · Score: 3, Funny

      A post at bash.org:

      //
      // Dear maintainer:
      //
      // Once you are done trying to 'optimize' this routine,
      // and have realized what a terrible mistake that was,
      // please increment the following counter as a warning
      // to the next guy:
      //
      // total_hours_wasted_here = 25
      //

  6. I have to remind of solved problems by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I design automated testing systems. I find myself in the position of re-solving problems that were solved as much as 10 years ago in prior automated testing systems. There's an odd tendency of people to simply passively accept whatever the manufacturer of the new system gives us as somehow "better" or more advanced that what we had, even when the new solution is an obvious fail, or (ahem) undeveloped. So I fix things to make up for the shortcomings of the new software, more or less the same way I fixed them 7 to 10 years ago. Things start working again. Everybody is happy.

    I seem to have discovered job security by re-inventing the same thing every 7 years or so in a slightly different form using a different programming language. Of course, that sort of describes the entire computer industry, more or less.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    1. Re:I have to remind of solved problems by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 1

      There's an odd tendency of people to simply passively accept whatever the manufacturer of the new system gives us as somehow "better" or more advanced that what we had, even when the new solution is an obvious fail, or (ahem) undeveloped

      I think it's an issue of "the engineering or accounting manager knows a buddy in the software business" rather than simple passive acceptance. The good ol' boys ignore the howling pleas of the plebes and laugh all the way to the bank.

      Are you in the business of hardware testing (GPIB, bed-of-nails, stimulus/response switching etc.) ? If so, could you provide specific examples listing softwares, platforms, etc? I work extensively in hardware test and I'd like to hear some horror stories.

    2. Re:I have to remind of solved problems by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

      Sorry, straight software. Data comparison (spreadsheets, strings, bitmaps, binaries, numbers, database content) makes up the bulk of test cases.

      --
      Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  7. Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why bother trying to smuggle them back in. Tell them you'll work on figuring out the bits you can't remember and will write a new manual. You get to charge them for time you don't need to spend and avoid getting caught.

    1. Re:Why bother by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Bingo!

      They get the desired result, you get money.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:Why bother by houghi · · Score: 2

      And then they wonder why people think that consultants are basically thieves with a title.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was going to suggest telling them you got the code from a competitor (this might also be a useful way of getting corporate leadership to notice the innovation which occurs within its own walls). Alternatively you could tell them you got it from the open-source community.

    4. Re:Why bother by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In this case it really is the safest solution, though. Companies don't want to know that someone has violated their precious document security policies, and would be much happier overpaying to have the data recreated than finding out that someone had a private copy. This guy giving engineers copies of the documents is probably the nice thing to do, but it's a risk that the incentives don't favor. Either he's naive, or knows the engineers he's dealing with well enough to trust that nothing will happen.

    5. Re:Why bother by J4 · · Score: 1

      Because there are things in them he can't know. RTFA

    6. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He should do the above suggestion, and then do a military/government-like redaction of all the stuff he's not supposed to know as an outsider and hand it to them, blacked out lines and all.

    7. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell them that you'd like to put in some extra time working from home, and could they please supply you a laptop for this purposes. Then you basically type in the document again.

    8. Re:Why bother by billcopc · · Score: 1

      "Thieving" consultants are a product of their environment. The GP described a workaround, which given the restrictive legal issues, is perfectly valid and avoids funning that same money to a bunch of dirty rotten IP lawyers.

      Engineers > lawyers. S'all I'm sayin...

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    9. Re:Why bother by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      Either he's naive, or knows the engineers he's dealing with well enough to trust that nothing will happen.

      If the people he's dealing with are smart enough to do their jobs, they'll understand without being told that the only reason they're getting all of that good stuff is because management doesn't know about it. The moment anybody spills the beans, the source of old documentation dries up, forever. Unless one of them's an idiot, none of them are going to risk that, meaning that he doesn't have anything to worry about.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    10. Re:Why bother by mhotchin · · Score: 2

      There are things he can't be *told*. Everyone knows that he already knows them, that's why he was hired!

    11. Re:Why bother by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Don't want people charging you for stupid things?
      Don't make stupid policies that you actually want people to circumvent.

      That's not thievery, that's a management surcharge - as in "management, dealing with"

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    12. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As the saying goes (and with good reason): No good deed goes unpunished.

      Whenever you're in a position where you think you're helping out a company, but 'really shouldn't be doing it this way', take a step back and reconsider.

    13. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally agree. If they'd knew he have the document, than they could sue his ass out and get back the document without paying him a buck. Better stand back and cash in on their total incompetence.

  8. Software Evolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the courses of my university study was called 'Software Evolution' in which tutors showcased all kinds of problems with legacy software. Software using languages or platforms no one knows about anymore or lost source code of mission critical systems. Especially older banks and insurance companies suffer from this problem, often choosing the 'wrap around the bit that we know that works' instead of a complete overhaul of a system no one really knows what it does but does it really well. I fear everything we build today will cause the same problems, but worse. Perhaps the old idea that readable code should help people understand its function saves us from this scenario...?

    1. Re:Software Evolution by desdinova+216 · · Score: 2

      (sarcasm) but that would cost money (/sarcasm)

    2. Re:Software Evolution by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      If you don't know what it does, how can you measure how well it does it?

      I think what you meant to say, is that no one really knows what it does, but it continues to return answers that everyone likes.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  9. Dear Slashdot admins, by sootman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    More like this, please, and less about the Apple/Andoid/MS/Samsung/**AA suit-of-the-minute. I know, I know, flamewars == pageviews == Step 3, but you've occasionally gotta throw something out there for us old-timers.

    --
    Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    1. Re:Dear Slashdot admins, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How about you submit more like this? Or create more like this? Or find a site that is more about this? Or make a site that is more about this? I'd love to see it too but the fact of the matter is that the majority of the people here don't have these kinds of problems nor are they interested. Wait and see. Give this article about 3 days and look at the next closest article about Google/MS/Apple/RIAA and see what gets what comments. Granted, this article will probably get more insightful and thought out comments and a lot less of the memes and trolls than the others but page hits is what the management wants. They don't really care about content.

    2. Re:Dear Slashdot admins, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dont have any mod points, but wanted to post my +1 for a refreshingly interesting story.

    3. Re:Dear Slashdot admins, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thats why grandparent post is so important. You want this place to be the 4chan of the IT world? Slashdotters are experts at IT and they provide very good insight into IT news. Politics and VLC pissing contests not so much.

    4. Re:Dear Slashdot admins, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm. No. I think most of those who were real experts have moved on. I will agree the politics have trashed the place. When it comes to science I recommend PhysOrg. Not as much commenting but normally more insightful and less misinformation. Overall Slashdot fails it anymore.

  10. Outside of the code, all documentation is worthles by cavehobbit · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I currently work for a company that has instituted an incredibly restrictive development methodology they bought from a big consulting firm. It requires multiple forms be filled out for every program written, every requirement for every program written, every request for every change to every program or application written. All of these reviewed by coworkers who are not about to alienate team members, and reviewed by lower management who want to look good to upper management by having everything go smoothly.

    These documents are then stored on the LAN. To never, or rarely ever, be read again.

    The one thing it does not enforce or require, is meaningful documentation in the code itself.

    It doubles, or more, the time it takes to do everything. But it does nothing to stop the mistakes any better than the procedures that went before. If anything, it finds less errors, because we were not given more time to do this double or more amount of work. So time is so compressed, we do not have time to do anything other than get it working and get it in.

    One thing it does do very well, is prevent problems from getting fixed. The only people that will start a change effort are those that notice a problem and are affected by it enough to have it cause them problems. Otherwise no one wants to go through the bureaucracy to kick off any sort of change effort, which leaves a lot of ticking time-bombs in the infrastructure configurations, application designs and application code.

    The only place documentation is good, is if it is meaningful, and in the code, where it is readily findable and far less likely to get lost, short of some fool deleting it.

    Documentation located anywhere else will be lost, or obsolete many more times than not, before you ever really need it.

    If anything, documentation in code should be reviewed by people with absolutely no connection to the application it is for. If it is good enough for them to figure out an understand what is being done, and more importantly why it is being done, only then is it worth anything more than the bytes is written with in storage.

  11. Opportunity for more pay by mbone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I recently found myself in a strange position, rehired as a consultant with the unofficial job of reminding the company how an old plant works.

    I certainly hope that you negotiated a much higher salary than before.

    I have known people who were fired in a "chain saw" maneuver who proved to have core corporate competencies in their heads. They negotiated for a much higher rate the second time around...

    1. Re:Opportunity for more pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you RTFA, you would know if s/he did.

    2. Re:Opportunity for more pay by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you RTFA, you would know if s/he did.

      If you had read it, you would know whether to use "he" or "she".

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    3. Re:Opportunity for more pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you RTFA, you would know if s/he did.

      Eh? What does RTFA mean?

    4. Re:Opportunity for more pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I know a guy who, after the company was bought, got the ax along with every other engineer in the place.

      As he was working remotely, he had a local copy of the entire repo. With his severance check was a reminder to "destroy all company information in his possession".

      Fortunately, he didn't do that because, 2 months later, they came back asking if he had gotten around to doing that because the salesdroids accidentally sold off the main repo server when they liquidated the office equipment.

      He greatly enjoyed negotiating the fee for "recreating" the repo that he "didn't have".

    5. Re:Opportunity for more pay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read the fucking article. And it's true, he consults at 3x the pay he was being paid.

    6. Re:Opportunity for more pay by Jonner · · Score: 1

      TFA says that he was paid much more than his previous salary.

    7. Re:Opportunity for more pay by dafunn · · Score: 1

      If you RTFA, you would know if s/he did.

      If you had read it, you would know whether to use "he" or "she".

      I /did/ read it, and I'm a little curious to know where you think this was specified. Other than making a general assumption, I see no mention of the author's gender.

    8. Re:Opportunity for more pay by SimonInOz · · Score: 2

      Yes, this happens. A while ago I was made redundant by a Very Large Telephone Company. Said VLTC paid me a nice redundancy, and gave me a system I'd written they didn't want (which made me a nice living for a few years, thanks VLTC). No complaints. Before I left, I archived everything nicely, documented the archives, and handed over several copies.

      A year or two later, they called me up and asked if I "happened" to have a copy of the source to a system I'd written. (Yes, it had been in those archived copies).
      Fortunately I did (what, me, paranoid?), so I then made a nice living for a short while selling them back the stuff I had written for them before, for which they had already paid me. And both parties were quite satisfied.
      Oh - rinse and repeat. Happened again a year later for yet another system (they were trying to replicate its functionality outsourcing the writing of it to India). I charged more and again, all were happy.

      Weird.

      --
      "Cats like plain crisps"
  12. Company rules against removing documents by blackC0pter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd be very careful in this situation. Even though you are supposedly "doing the company a favor" by smuggling the documents back in, were you even legally allowed to take the documents in the first place? Most employers have contracts or rules that state you can't remove documents from the office or that when you leave the company you must return all property to the company. Furthermore, it is most likely that this documentation was property of the company all along and in that case did you break any laws by removing it from the company and keeping it? IANAL but this is a very tricky situation. You may be doing good for the company now but you are profiting off of documents that you do not own and may not even have a legal right to possess.

    Personally, I'd stick with just what's in my head and not keep any documents, files, etc. from a previous employer. It's just asking for trouble.

    1. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Yes, that's what makes it tricky. I wasn't supposed to have these documents, but some important internal drawings have been lost, and I have a copy. The safest solution would be to avoid bringing it up, I agree. Though I'm not blackmailing them for the documents or anything.

      I've heard it happen several other times. I've had colleagues who consulted for a company, then a few years later get a call or email asking if they by any chance still have a copy of some old document. Of course they weren't supposed to have kept a copy, but if they accidentally did, it would be really nice if they could send a copy because the company seems to have lost it...

      It mostly happens at lower levels of the org chart on a don't-ask/don't-tell basis I think. Lots of people keep personal archives, and sometimes the official archives have to get patched out of them.

    2. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about you recreate those documents from scratch, whether genuinely or pretend to? In the latter case you can have longer breaks to read Slashdot etc while you're "reverse engineering" the stuff ;).

      Of course if you actually like the company then perhaps you might be more helpful than that. But I personally don't think you should take extra effort or risk to help a company that will screw you for helping them. Sure you breached policy, but if you didn't leak the data out to anyone else, big deal. Exceptions are made for CxOs all the time.

    3. Re:Company rules against removing documents by xs650 · · Score: 2

      That happened to me about 5 years after I retired. A friend who was still working at my former employer called and asked if I had had any documentation on an old project they needed top resurrect. My employer had been good to me while I worked there so I sent it to them. Being only slightly paranoid I did send it with no return address or other info on where it came from.

    4. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Stevecrox · · Score: 2

      I think it can be an easy enough thing to do, for a while I was doing a far bit of travel for my place of employment. Considering some of the journeys took place on the weekends I had to take home some company gear. If you do that long enough the odd notebook can easily be left at home. I agree if you know you have something it's either better to give it back or to destroy it but can see how an employee would have this information.

      I would suggest if you have continually worked for the company to simply come clean admit you have it, they can't really accuse you of using the information outside of work. Depending on the place it might either be seen a good or involve you getting a slap on the wrist, in any case disclosing how and why you took it home might help improve their document tracking and security procedures.

      If you left the company I'd argue things become more complicated, personally I would still admit to possessing the documentation but I can see that things could go very badly and why you might not want to do that. Where I work they have an ethical helpline (anonymous) I'd call it and lay out the situation and do what they suggest.

      Of course if you intentionally took the company gear home and kept it, you should really be asking yourself why you took it home and why you thought keeping it was ok. I'd argue you have much bigger problems.

    5. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only "personal" archives I keep are on my user's directory share on the company's network. It will be wiped when I leave, but it is so much more useful to me day-to-day than the document storage structure the company provides and which changes with every re-org, which, I was shocked to discover (this is my first job at a big multi-national), happens more than once a year on average.

      I've been there about seven years doing EXACTLY the same thing the whole time and I have had nine manager changes, and at least seven unique department codes.

    6. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've also done that. In my case I found a PDF in some old email archives, but what I'm 99% sure happened is that my ex-coworker/friend who asked for it just said he found it in "his" email archives. I guess that's a sort of provenance-laundering like in the OP's story here. As far as the company needs to know, it was always internal, just temporarily misfiled.

    7. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's pretty common for people who've worked for a company for a career to accumulate all sorts of stuff at home. My dad worked for a big engineering company and kept tons of files at home, because he worked on international projects and would often need to get on a phone conference at weird hours and not want to go into work for it, and didn't want to be lugging huge sets of files back and forth either. The company didn't seem very anal about copying as long as there wasn't a suspicion you were leaking the information. I think he probably still has a lot of those files now that he's retired. He should probably burn them, but some of it's nostalgia. Old 1950s/60s engineering blueprints are kind of cool.

    8. Re:Company rules against removing documents by blackC0pter · · Score: 2

      Personally, I'd still take a CYA stance in this situation. If you return the documents or tell anyone you have them you are admitting to a crime by proving that you took the documents and had them in your possession. This is really the worst case situation because you could be sued civilly and potentially have criminal charges brought against you. At this point you can only hope the company doesn't take action against you. Also, I believe that you are not blackmailing them for these documents but who's to say they believe that? What if they think you destroyed the original copies and then kept some for yourself. Then you make money by them coming back to you and getting paid as a consultant who just so happens to have copies of the missing documents. Your intentions don't matter; the law and what lawyers can prove matter. You are taking an insane amount of risk by keeping these documents and also by bringing them back. Why expose yourself to so much risk? Would the company do the same for you?

      To the other posters that said these things happen and documents are accidentally left here or there: Intellectual property is an extremely valuable asset to any company. You are potentially holding on to something that is worth a lot of money to the company. If you were an accountant or say someone physically handling money, would you accidentally leave $100, $1,000 or more dollars at your house or the companies' money while you were counting those bills or handling checks? No way. You would make sure every cent was accounted for and returned to the company. Do you think intellectual property is any different? In many cases it is even worse because a single pdf or notebook could be worth millions. Before you take that notebook home in the future, check your company policy, are you even allowed to remove items like this from the company? Get written approval from your boss that you can remove these items and work on them from home. But make sure that If you are planning to sever ties with the company, search your computers and your files for company information and return them (assuming you had permission to take them in the first place. If you didn't, then you are back to the original problem). Once again, IANAL and this is not legal advice.

    9. Re:Company rules against removing documents by russotto · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's what makes it tricky. I wasn't supposed to have these documents, but some important internal drawings have been lost, and I have a copy. The safest solution would be to avoid bringing it up, I agree. Though I'm not blackmailing them for the documents or anything.

      If it's not classified or anything, I'd suggest you make another copy and "find" it somewhere. Perhaps this company has a disused file cabinet in a basement restroom marked "beware of the leopard" that it can be "found" in... and if it doesn't, maybe they'll be happy enough to have it not to ask too many questions.

    10. Re:Company rules against removing documents by couchslug · · Score: 1

      Do what ever will make you the most money. Corporations have no ethical obligations and neither should employees.

      Your value is what you know. Don't share any more than you can avoid.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    11. Re:Company rules against removing documents by frisket · · Score: 1

      Would the company do the same for you?

      If you and the company have parted amicably, and there are still people there who may be personal friends of long standing, and you all know and trust each other, then perhaps they would, even if it's unlikely. If, on the other hand, you got fired, or left out of frustration or dissatisfaction, and there's no-one left there now who remembers you, then they almost certainly would not. Either way, companies are not well known for being nice to their former employees. There are undoubtedly exceptions, but I suspect they stick out because they are rarities.

      Do you think intellectual property is any different?

      Yes, radically. The reduction of everything to a putative monetary value is one of the most obvious failings of modern management. As they tend to lack the higher faculties, such as rational analysis and critical thinking, they welcome any cliché as a godsend. The biggest difference between so-called "intellectual" property and a $10 bill is that the "IP" can be duplicated and reused ad infinitum (or nauseam, depending on your point of view), whereas the Treasury tends to take a dim view of people who duplicate paper money.

    12. Re:Company rules against removing documents by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I think you are paranoid. If you quit or are fired and have a company laptop at home, you are usually not required to return it on their terms. You must make it available, and comply with reasonable requests, but if it's an inconvenient drive (you are in NY and they in Boston), they can't "require" you to drive it back to them. They can send you a prepaid return box and "require" you return it at their expense. Documents are similar, but the "cost" to delete them is zero. The PDF isn't "worth millions" by you having it. That you *could* sell it for that to a competitor doesn't have any effect on the fact that the document is worth $0. If they don't DRM it, they obviously assess the document at exactly $0, as that's what they've done to protect it. I've had company laptops. They want everyone in IT to have it to encourage unpaid overtime from home. That's standard practice, but almost no companies take reasonable steps to secure documents. No DLP, so you can email anything to your home account. No DRM, so documents can be copied without issue (though I've worked at law offices where they did have DRM on every document, but the primary concern was conflicting changes with multiple clerks and partners accessing it, but it did work as DRM as well - as long as you didn't print then scan it, which it allowed and logged).

    13. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Tacvek · · Score: 1

      I've been at my company just over 1 year (entry level position, doing exactly the same work the whole time), and have had 4 distinct de jure supervisors, while in terms of effective supervisors, I've had 3, one of which is not included among the 5 previously mentioned. At the company the hierarchy is supposed to be (Executives->VP->Director->Manager>Supervisor->Me), but at one point I technically reported directly to the VP (and I'm not talking for only an instant, but for a little over a week.)

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
    14. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indicate that you are still in touch with a few other former colleagues and that with permission you would like to email around and ask if anyone still has any relevant materials particularly old drawings. Indicate that you are happy to do this providing that you can keep the colleagues you receive information from anonymous and that there will be no investigation into the source or circumstances of the information's return.

      In about 2 weeks bring in what you have.

      Of course this only works if the materials are likely to have been in the possession of people other than yourself.

    15. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Webmoth · · Score: 1

      You may want to consult a lawyer, but in negotiating with the former company, you could demand that you be exonerated from violating company policy during your employment in return for supplying any corporate documentation you may discover in your possession. How did your employment contract and employee policy read, and are you past any statute of limitations regarding possession of IP during your period of employment? Considering what a jumble their documentation is in, could they even find a copy of your employment contract and employee policy that was in effect during your employment? If not, then would they be able to present a valid breach of contract case without producing the contract?

      Also, considering that nature of this project, you aren't an ordinary outside consultant supplying new information or engineering of a subset of the plant, but rather a former employee recreating holistic institutional intellectual property on a contract basis. Therefore you should be granted employee-level clearance to access and discuss all current intellectual property as it relates to the project.

      As far as personally retaining documents related to corporate operations, much of the information contained therein may be of your own design. This intellectual property, while legally the property of the corporation, is also your personal idea. The non-compete clause in many employment contracts implies that you cannot use the ideas you had while employed at another employer for a certain length of time, but once that time is passed you should be able to reuse those ideas. Therefore you should be able to retain at least that portion of intellectual property that is your creation; it may be best legally to recreate the rest from memory.

      As an employee of a contract IT consulting firm, I retain copies of network documentation for many of my clients on my personal laptop. (My company does not supply computers to its employees, rather it is a Bring Your Own Device type of workplace.) I am not aware that I am in violation of any NDA by this, but it would be terribly inefficient if I could only keep such information in repositories under the control of each client. If a client requests documentation of their network that I have in my possession, I will provide it to them, charging only for any necessary modification to reflect current configurations. After all, it is THEIR intellectual property, which I have previously sold to them by charging for the time previously spent creating the documents.

      Will I destroy this information when the client ceases to become a client, or when my employment is terminated? Probably not. Chances are, I'll archive it and give a copy of the archive media to my employer. I may keep an archive copy myself, since I don't trust my employer to be able to find the archive somewhere down the road. Shoot, I don't even trust MYSELF to find the archive, but the more copies there are floating around, the better the chances of finding it when needed. Of course, that means the chances of it falling into the wrong hands and becoming a tool of corporate espionage is greater as well.

      --
      Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
    16. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Cid+Highwind · · Score: 1

      Do what ever will make you the most money. Corporations have no ethical obligations and neither should employees.

      Your value is what you know. Don't share any more than you can avoid.

      Ordinarily, yes. When you are the only one who knows how the accounts payable database works, charge them through the nose for every sheet of documentation. But there's a lot of energy in a polymerization unit, and one bad assumption about the flow rate of some side-product can let it all out in a spectacular fashion. I think our anonymous engineer has an ethical obligation to the guys who go out in the plant and turn the valves (really, to every living thing downwind) even if he doesn't have one to the corporation.

      --
      0 1 - just my two bits
    17. Re:Company rules against removing documents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I NEVER let go of ANY data once it is in my possession.

    18. Re:Company rules against removing documents by RogerWilco · · Score: 1

      I think a lot of engineers do this when they leave an employer. Not to reuse it somewhere else or to sell it to an external party, but just because if you work on things long enough they become a bit of yourself and you want to keep them around.

      --
      RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
  13. Worked on High Rises in NY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hi !
    I used to make construction blueprints, a lot of them were for NY sites(company was very small - 20 people).
    Once, we were forced to pull old drawings, back from 70's(done by the company I worked for). It took us a while to figure out wtf is going on

    1. Re:Worked on High Rises in NY by Larryish · · Score: 1, Funny

      Were the plans for two very tall buildings, side by side, with everyone trying to figure out how they both fell after being impacted on the upper stories by a few measly tons of kerosene?

      (O.k., mod me down. Then go watch American Idol again.)

    2. Re:Worked on High Rises in NY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The steel was required to hold the structure up. The steel was weakened by the heat. So, the building collapsed. The building was improperly engineered in that it was explicitly designed to survive an airplane impact (as an airplane struck the Empire State Building before, it was a known danger). The damage from the impact destroyed the fire suppression system, which was required to survive an impact.

      Given that it's the largest building to ever collapse (aside from possibly the Tower of Babel), for people to make claims against "common sense" for how it should collapse seems insane. It's common sense that horses should run around marking territory like dogs, as they are both common domesticated mammals.

  14. Lost information is common but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Losing information over the years is common but rehiring for consultation is fairly rare in comparison. The easier method rather then reverse smuggle the data in, since you have worked on the system before, simply sign a NDA with the company that all knowledge remains there and kept secret. Since you are not a true employee, companies require at least a contract of that type in order to feel safer for "outsiders" to work on sensitive data. Barring that solution, just work with the internal team. Rather then trying to get the old data official recognized, quietly give them your data so that they may create "new" documentation based off on the old to be stored (guaranteed to be alot easier when working with management).

  15. Aliens. by mosb1000 · · Score: 5, Funny

    If the history channel read this story, they would undoubtably conclude that the plant was built with the help of aliens.

    1. Re:Aliens. by belmolis · · Score: 1

      If I had mod points, I would be torn between "funny" and "insightful".

    2. Re:Aliens. by mbone · · Score: 1

      That would explain a lot!

  16. Sometimes IT has to help the business by MagikSlinger · · Score: 2

    Where I work, us, the IT teams that program and support the applications, often have to tell the employees how the business works. So many people retired in the 2000-2010 that a huge chunk of institutional memory walked out the door. The new folks doing the jobs often don't know how to handle the Once Every Five year situation, etc. I know the company keeps buying these Knowledge Sharing portals, but it seems more like oral history is the primary knowledge transfer.

    --
    The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
    1. Re:Sometimes IT has to help the business by TheLink · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe some companies need a Historian or two.

      An important task for Historians is to regularly remind the bosses what Historians are for so they don't get sacked ;).

      --
    2. Re:Sometimes IT has to help the business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is your IT team getting recognition as a line of business unit which adds to the bottom line; or is IT considered a cost center with pay and budgets painfully slashed? Are line of business managers getting bonuses for business operations support you provide; and you get no bonus?

      I routinely sends IT requests back to line supervisors and managers for specific enumeration when the request asks for support on "my mailing list/file share/server". If the line of business supervisors and managers cannot remember or internally document the IT assets which are critical to their business operations, many other critical business elements in their deptartments are equally operationally inadequate.

      I don't have the time or resources to operate their line of business unit and my own IT unit. If I wanted that responsibility, I would be a company executive.

    3. Re:Sometimes IT has to help the business by MagikSlinger · · Score: 1

      Is your IT team getting recognition as a line of business unit which adds to the bottom line; or is IT considered a cost center with pay and budgets painfully slashed? Are line of business managers getting bonuses for business operations support you provide; and you get no bonus?

      That's a BINGO!

      I don't have the time or resources to operate their line of business unit and my own IT unit. If I wanted that responsibility, I would be a company executive.

      For the last two years, we've been dutifully reporting the work we do in--at first--one then two separate systems showing that we were, in fact, operating the LoB's business. Still no effect on the higher ups--they didn't even look at the reports. They just saw a big number and thought, "Geez! We should cut costs! I'm sure we can get cheaper labour and that will solve the problem."

      Yes, I am trying to escape this asylum. Thank you for asking. :-)

      --
      The bitter lessons of a veteran coder: http://bitterprogrammer.blogspot.com
    4. Re:Sometimes IT has to help the business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could also call them Librarians. Unless someone else already has ...

  17. Documentation is key by markdavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My situation is different, yet similar. I just have so much responsibility for so many things at work, I simply can't remember how everything works. At times it is frightening, especially since year after year there are more things happening and I get older, so it is already inherently more difficult.

    I also find myself "protecting" my sanity by almost intentionally forgetting how some things operate, especially those things I don't like.

    I think as a manager, one of the most important things to do is learn to effectively document everything. I always knew documentation was important, to the point that I have a log of everything I do at work, every day, that spans 23 years! But those are just "reminders", not proper documentation. It helps to jog memory or memorialize certain facts for reference. Nothing replaces *proper* documentation, though- the kind that is well thought-out, has great detail, and is organized properly. Further, it will have insights into defining the problem and the solution and WHY you selected certain paths and not others.

    Proper documentation takes considerable time, and many people think it is a waste of time, especially when one is drowning in projects and deadlines. When you reach the point that you can't handle the load without continuing to document properly, you know you are in trouble. In the short-term, you can "win" by getting more things done. But in the LONG TERM, you are basically screwed, because you will spend a tremendous amount of wasted time later trying to relearn what you did and why. Or worse, trying to defend your decisions and can't because you can't find the information, it doesn't make sense, or it just doesn't exist.

    1. Re:Documentation is key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      every job ive had, i write my own black book, containing all the useful bits i need or learn on the job. it invariably saves me more time than writing it costs, and really makes life easier. and since im the beneficiary, i make sure its up to date. surprisingly few managers care about it when i give them a copy as i leave.

    2. Re:Documentation is key by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep that is what happened where I worked. A boss, a few employees, and I (I had about 10 years on the job, the longest-running person there), decided turnover was very high (a lot of employees were students), so perhaps we'd better write some documentation so the eventuality happened that "everyone" left at once there'd be some continuity. General information that was "word of mouth" previously, a few technical appendixes (so there was at least some chance for someone technically minded enough to recreate a few vital systems if they broke down), and a few anecdotes that weren't necessary but were amusing. The boss left, gave the book to the new boss, who not only didn't look at it but lost it. A while later, he asked about something or other, I pointed out it was in the book. He could not even find it, I did manage to dredge up the information on my own. They had layoffs a while later that wiped everyone out except the boss and students (including myself), at that point the longest-running employee had been there about 3 or 4 years, and he was graduating, after that it'd be the boss with about a year on the job. I could be wrong, but I assume things'll run smoothly until something (hard drive wiping or inventory system maybe) breaks down, then nobody will know at all how it works.

    3. Re:Documentation is key by BalunStormhands · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter what you do it will fail in some way. I worked on a project to reverse engineer and update a device, where more then half of the components had gone obsolete. I dug thru the company library to find what I could. The complete blueprints for the enclosure, a partial schematic, and I could download the source code from the prototype (different from a production model) without comments, of course. I had to document everything just to keep my sanity, because the previous engineer from 20 years ago, didn't document anything and he hotdogged it so bad he was harming the devices we connected to. After lots of distractions I finally had a complete documentation package and a new device that worked. Of course, I got the ax, but I was nice and saved copies of everything and placed them in several places. 6 months later I got a call asking if I had any documentation. I asked if he had looked on the computers, I had copied all the docs to all the computers. They'd been upgraded. I put hardcopies in all the desks. They'd moved. The office file cabinets. Purged for the move. The company document repository had two copies, one as a complete package and one spread through the library by "type". There was one of them still there. I did have a copy but they were only going to hire me back for my old salary, which was less then I was making. Oh well. Sorry I don't have anything for you.

  18. Control is the problem. by mosb1000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The bean-counters and mindless penny pinchers who run most corporations like to keep everything secret and proprietary without fully appreciating the costs associated with maintaining that level of secrecy. The solution is simple, only keep something secret if you've first: taken the effort to understand what it will cost to do so and second: taken the effort to make sure the secret won't actually be forgotten. In short, keep fewer secrets, and keep them a lot better.

    1. Re:Control is the problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The bean-counters and mindless penny pinchers who run most corporations like to keep everything secret and proprietary without fully appreciating the costs associated with maintaining that level of secrecy.

      Because to them, there is no cost. None. What's the cost? It's time spent my grunts doing more work. "Oh, you had to spend a bunch of time figuring out why this program was written the way it was five years ago to do your job? Too bad you're on salary." Since it doesn't show up on a balance sheet as a seperate entry, "Costs associated with not retaining any corporate knowledge" it actually doesn't exist.

  19. I don't comment my code anymore by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i did so slavishly at first but then my boss pointed out that comments are rarely updated with the actual code. a contrived example:

    int foo()
    { // always returns 4

          return 5;
    }

    now I have a coding style that the simplest fool can understand. that's quite a different thing than the arrogant coders who feel that their colleagues are incompetent if they cannot follow uncommented code. if someone cannot follow my code then I feel I have done something wrong, not them.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
    1. Re:I don't comment my code anymore by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 5, Interesting

      > that's quite a different thing than the arrogant coders who feel that their colleagues are incompetent if they cannot follow uncommented code. if someone cannot follow my code then I feel I have done something wrong, not them.

      IMO, _proper__ commentting discusses WHY you did something. If someone wants to understand HOW it was done, read the code, as you correctly reason. Any half-decent coder should be able to figure out what the code is doing.

      EXCEPTION: If you are doing something tricky, then document that. i.e. http://www.codemaestro.com/reviews/9

    2. Re:I don't comment my code anymore by uufnord · · Score: 2

      now I have a coding style that the simplest fool can understand.

      As I am one of the simplest fools that I know, I just want to say -- Thanks for this. It is appreciated.

    3. Re:I don't comment my code anymore by russotto · · Score: 1, Insightful


      int foo()
      { // always returns 4

                  return 5;
      }

      Hmm.
      $ svn blame
          1001 mcrawford int foo()
          1001 mcrawford { // always returns 4
          1001 mcrawford
          1001 mcrawford return 5;
          1001 mcrawford }

      As I suspected.

    4. Re:I don't comment my code anymore by Jonner · · Score: 2

      There are often situations when it makes sense to add comments to explain why you did something a certain way based on knowledge of things outside of the local code, like database schema or quirky behavior of a function you're calling. It's easy to comment too much or too little; the right balance is an exercise in judgment and almost an art form itself.

    5. Re:I don't comment my code anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (sniff) I wish I had your boss.

      I'm roped into coding in the most vertically integrated, truncated, performance neutered, controlled and indefensible self-taught coding style you could imagine. The code is absolutely unreadable. Our small team regularly spends several days making 1-4 lines of code changes. Lines of code over 2000 characters. Several (capable) team members have spent over a week investigating issues where the cause just couldn't be identified.. I see something wrong every single day and regularly extend the spaghetti, it's just wrong.

      IMO code style should always be self documenting. My rule of thumb was always:
          "If I have to think about what my code is doing, it's wrong"
      Glancing at the code should make it clear. I'd rarely use ternary conditions, only use regular expressions when there are no other options, name variables clearly and purposefully, use descriptive logical functions rather than con-joined conditions and structure the code up-front before touching the keyboard. It made for code a six year old could read, and I've been complimented with comments like "Your code is beautiful".

      It's GOT to be about maintainable code .. because there's not a single software application which survives without requiring change.

      KISS .. and anyone who doesn't agree with the second S shouldn't be programming.

    6. Re:I don't comment my code anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i did so slavishly at first but then my boss pointed out that comments are rarely updated with the actual code. a contrived example:

      int foo()
      { // always returns 4

            return 5;
      }

      now I have a coding style that the simplest fool can understand. that's quite a different thing than the arrogant coders who feel that their colleagues are incompetent if they cannot follow uncommented code. if someone cannot follow my code then I feel I have done something wrong, not them.

      Comments are there to tell you the why, not the how.

  20. Old news by DingerX · · Score: 4, Informative

    Primo Levi, "Chrome" in The Periodical Table describes a similar problem with a paint formula at his factory in the 1950s. Evidently, during the war, they had a QC problem, included some chemical to correct for that, and the formula became a cargo cult, long after anyone knew what it was for. Someone changes some other factor, and their batch of paint gets the consistency of liver. So our hero had to reverse-engineer the trade secrets of a previous generation, back when he was working in the lab at Auschwitz.

    1. Re:Old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You obviously don't know what a cargo cult is. The whole point of them is that they don't work; adherents are under the misapprehension that merely mimicking the outward appearance of something will cause it to happen.

      Here, you describe the reverse: the formula was correct and fundamental to the functioning of the formula.

    2. Re:Old news by DingerX · · Score: 1

      If I remember the story correctly, the ""cargo cult" part of formula corrected a problem that hadn't existed since the war, and its purpose had escaped institutional memory. Then a transcription error of the formula made that part ridiculously high, and an innocuous change somewhere else caused an interaction problem.

      So, yeah, I used the term "cargo cult". Nobody new what it was, or why it was breaking.

      But of course, It's been fifteen years since I read the story.

  21. You haven't discovered job security by Colin+Smith · · Score: 5, Funny

    Until you write it in cobol.
     

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:You haven't discovered job security by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't laugh -- I know of a *major* investment bank which had a restructuring a few years ago which involved firing several Cobol programmers. Turned out no-one left could figure out how to maintain a very important back office system now, and those retirees needed to be hired back in as contractors. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in those negotiations.

    2. Re:You haven't discovered job security by Catiline · · Score: 1
      No, job security is programming in Lisp:
      1. Your code will never "fail" when you cover all bases with restarts; and
      2. It's fast to write from specification, so you get big props as a get-'er-done type.
      3. Third, nobody else can debug it because they can't figure out what is being done in even a simple one-liner like "(eq TODAY (cdr (car *LIFE*)))".
      4. Finally, nobody can be hired to replace you because all the schools don't teach the basics of data structure and code flow analysis but the grammar of the latest "l33t"ness in this year's dialect of VB-dot-net-sharp-plus-plus.
  22. this is why you shouldn't outsource by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 5, Insightful

    if your own employees do the work your company retains the knowledge of how to get it done.

    if you outsource you never learn how to do your own work, instead you finance your outsourcing firms efforts to learn how to operate your business. not only do you not gain that institutional memory but that outsourcing firm can now perform that same work for your competitors.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
    1. Re:this is why you shouldn't outsource by hibiki_r · · Score: 1

      Enough turnover makes the creator make no difference. Employee driven turnover tends to come in waves. One day you have a team of 4. 2 weeks later half the team has gone to a place that pays better. You hire replacements, but the team chemistry is sunk: The other two original members leave within 3 months. Now you have a team with 2 people with little experience on the application, and are fumbling to have them train replacements.

      To protect yourself, you must work so hard on knowledge sharing that the development speed becomes glacial.

    2. Re:this is why you shouldn't outsource by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A certain large American corporation is in the process of "outsourcing" development of many of its high-profile products and has sold one sixth of its permanent engineering staff to and Indian outsourcing company that has super-duper motivated and empowered employees with a "can-do" attitude.

      The outsourcing company has very poor working terms and conditions compared to Western ones and typically pays its engineers 10 to 25% of what the Western ones get paid, and works them 9+ hour days. The Western staff have been transferred (largely) on their existing terms and conditions.

      The Indians are over for knowledge transfer trying to assimilate many decades of know-how in a matter of weeks. Meanwhile, for the deal to succeed, at least 50% of the Western workers have to be not-working on their existing work by the middle of next year.

      As you can imagine, many existing staff have already left and most are looking for new jobs.

      I'm training my replacement just now, and if I'm honest, I'm really glad that I'm not a share holder in either company. There's going to be trouble in 6 months time when deadlines are looming and there is nothing to deliver.

    3. Re:this is why you shouldn't outsource by tg123 · · Score: 1

      If someone has mod points please mod this up. (+5 profound)

      This is the real issue here I bet this company in the article outsourced the day to day running of this plant to another firm.
      When you outsource you lose the knowledge , skills and most importantly quality control of the product.

      The quality of the product is what differentiates you from the competition.

  23. Try an old schematic in Cadence Composer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now let's try something a little closer to Slashdot...

    Remember that circuit/macro/chip you worked on long, long ago, back when dimensions were reasonably measured in fractional microns? What schematic editor did you use? There is some chance that it was Cadence Composer, "the standard of the industry." What are your chances of reading that schematic today? You may have saved the data, but did you save an installation of the tool? Will it talk to the new license server? From what I've seen, any new version will "read and convert" the previous version. But how many people have time to go back and convert all of your previous designs to the latest'n'greatest design database? More likely you kept an installation of the old tool around, "for legacy purposes." When was the last time you tried to actually run that old tool?

    Bringing it back to Slashdot again, I'll have to say that we don't often have to go back to old designs for any sort of serviceability purposes, generally one or two generations back is sufficient for that. But LEGAL purposes... You know, the Troll that is suing for something you know you did 15-20 years ago, if you can just find a date-stamped schematic....

    Once upon a time, I gave an internal technical talk on schematic entry. I used as my example the ultimate schematic entry tool. It made semi-permanent archives, maintained a constant, readable database, etc, etc, etc. About the only problem was that it didn't directly interface with any of the downstream tools, like simulation or extraction. I actually used this tool when I first got into the design business. It was, of course, pencil and paper.

  24. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Helloooooooo, RUP

  25. And so, civilisation ends. by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2

    And a new dark ages are born.

    Oh enough hyperbole. Wouldn't worry about it, the companies in question will collapse and be replaced by someone else if the demand is high enough. Or not if it isn't.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's scary enough.
      What happens if a critical system of the internet goes down and nobody is left who knows how to fix or replace it?

    2. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by Fjandr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is actually why the space program is in the state it's in. They can't build more heavy lift rockets because there is nobody left who actually knows how they were built in the first place.

    3. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And nobody really cares because space is empty. Deal with it.

    4. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 2

      Yes the system's state will eventually wander around these kinds of penny-wise pound-foolish decisions. What's being stated here is that with a small investment up front you can remove the 'eventually' by preventing the need for a foolish duplication of effort in the first place.

      But of course, this would imply a corporation with the ability to see beyond the tip of its own nose, which is rare.

    5. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. They can't build more heavy lift rockets because Congress has all their launch vehicle budget porkbarreled to their friends the businessmen whose plants built shuttle parts.

      SpaceX doesn't have anyone "left who actually knows how they were built in the first place", and they're having little trouble reinventing them; NASA could/would do the same, and be well along their way, if they were given equivalent budgetary freedom and incentives.

    6. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by turbidostato · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "But of course, this would imply a corporation with the ability to see beyond the tip of its own nose, which is rare."

      The problem is not only corporate culture but societal.

      Say Big Corp A has in fact the ability to see beyond the tip of its own nose and then spares efforts to prepare for the next decade which, of course, impacts its bottom line for this quarter. At the same time, Big Corp B doesn't see beyond the tip of its own nose and this quarter's results look better than that from Big Corp A. Then, all of a sudden, everybody, *you included*, sell their stocks from Big Corp A to buy stocks from Big Corp B which makes Big Corp B even bigger while Big Corp A is not a big corp any more.

      Which, ironically, makes Big Corp B to be the one with the ability to see beyond the tip of its own nose because since Big Corp A is a big corp no more, its investment for the future is now moot and shouldn't have been done to start with.

      That's exactly why you see from time to time companies exploding basically out of nothing (say Google or Facebook) despite of the fact that other Big Corps near the business niche have much more than enough muscle to crunch them -their stockholders wouldn't allow for the investment. And that's exactly way you see those Big Corps investing much more in rising the bars for new entries with lawyers, IP, patents and lobying legislators than in real R&D.

    7. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by Fjandr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I didn't say anything about "reinventing." I said building more of what they have.

      It costs a lot more to invent, test, and deliver something than it does to build another of something which already works. There's likely to be a lot of efficiency improvements with newer heavy lift rockets because of advances in technology. That has nothing to do with the point I made, which apparently went whizzing over your head.

    8. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by syousef · · Score: 1

      I didn't say anything about "reinventing." I said building more of what they have.

      It costs a lot more to invent, test, and deliver something than it does to build another of something which already works. There's likely to be a lot of efficiency improvements with newer heavy lift rockets because of advances in technology. That has nothing to do with the point I made, which apparently went whizzing over your head.

      You couldn't get the 50s and 60s parts anyway. The world and technology has moved on. No one is going to build an Apollo Guidance Computer which is slower (2MHz) and has less memory (4KB) than a desktop calculator. No none knows or cares how to build such low spec'd parts.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    9. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My brother is long retired, or was. He used to work at the water board. Now he works full time for a private contractor on a good wedge. Guess nobody else knows where the water pipes are. Sure, they've got maps, but what do these different coloured lines actual mean, and what did they mean in 1965, and how deep did they actually bury them then?

    10. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by Fjandr · · Score: 2

      That's not really the point either. You can build on older technologies if you have the people who know how they work in the first place. All of the building blocks were there to develop better implementations, but that is no longer possible. It's being re-invented because there's absolutely no other option. Nobody can re-use any of the work that went into launching heavy rockets into space that might be applicable today. That might be a small amount of help, or a large amount. The point is, nobody knows anymore.

    11. Re:And so, civilisation ends. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget that most documentation is badly done anyway. Someone might mention the obstacles they encountered on a project, but they'll never mention the obstacles that they never ran into because they knew from previous experience that you never do X.

  26. I work there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work in a library at a large organization and I see this every single day. The short answer to the problem is that it needs to be someone's responsibility to ensure access to KNOWLEDGE (NOT data, documents, etc, but knowledge) in the long term. I get requests from our employees every single day asking for information on project x that was shut down in the 90's. It is my job to track down any information that I can. Unfortunately, I have neither the directive or funding to start gathering and organizing the knowledge in such as way that it is useful a few decades from now. So instead I tell our employees "sorry, you will have to spend a few hundred thousand to recreate the information."

    There are lots of people out there that can fix this type of problem, but they are never given the tools to do so.

  27. assertions are better than comments by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 4, Interesting

    now one does need to document the expected inputs and results of subroutines. better than commenting is to use assertions as well as unit tests. so for that contrived example, what I would actually do:

    int foo()
    {
            int result = 5;

            assert( 4==result);

            return result;
    }

    if you don't maintain the assertions and unit tests with the payload code you'll find out about it right away.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
    1. Re:assertions are better than comments by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      Yes, a good assertion will fix the code

      int foo()
      {
                        int result = 5;
                        assert( result=4);
                        return result;
      }

      Well, except when no longer compiled with debug info ;)

    2. Re:assertions are better than comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To nitpick the contrived example code...

      #DEFINE FOO_VALUE 4

      int foo() {
              int result = FOO_VALUE;
              assert(FOO_VALUE == result); //Pointless.
              return result;
      }

      If you're littering your code with literal values, you're doing it wrong.

  28. Old Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This guy worked at a company for 30 years. He retired and his company called him back in when an important machine started to break down. He placed an X where they had to fix the machine and then left. He sent the company a bill for $10,000. The company asked him to detail the bill. He sent: Placing a mark where to fix the machine $1. Knowing where to place the mark, $9,999.00. Old story and these days I make a few bucks because people improperly documented their work OR had no clue what they were doing. For example using a 1/4" industrial air disconnect to feed 2 air cylinders which hold a maximum of 10CF each at 90psi and then trying to fill them in about 10 seconds with 60psi of air from a 90psi source. Ain't guys with Phd's really smart :-) If it weren't for those really smart and educated people I might never have made any money.

  29. NASA by Latinhypercube · · Score: 2, Interesting

    NASA has lost ALL of it's Saturn V knowledge. The scientist have died, the documents have rotten and been lost. The parts were SOLD AS SCRAP. NASA is currently trying to buy up all the lost parts from scrap dealers. All this old knowledge is for the 'new' space program. Yes, we are indeed regressing.

    1. Re:NASA by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Informative

      NASA has lost ALL of it's Saturn V knowledge.

      Uh, no it hasn't. It may not be readily accessible, but there are (literally) tons of Saturn V information still available.

      The scientist have died, the documents have rotten and been lost.

      That'll be a surprise to the people who've put many gigabytes of Apollo-era documents on ntrs.nasa.gov.

      What they have lost is much of the software; the Apollo Guidance Computer software only exists because some of the programmers had old listings that were OCR-ed, and the Saturn guidance computer software seems to be long gone.. there are a couple of computers left that may still have the code in their core memory, but so far no-one has been brave enough to try reading it out since that's a destructive operation and if you screw up you won't get a second chance.

      Fortunately if someone was to try to rebuild a Saturn V they'd use completely new electronics and software anyway. Heck, it would probably have to run Windows...

    2. Re:NASA by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 4, Informative

      This is incorrect. When I was working for Boeing, who was contracting to NASA, I saw the Saturn V drawings with my own eyes, in the data repository building at the Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, AL. They are punch card aperture cards, which is IBM style punch cards with a piece of microfilm stuck into it. If you need a paper copy, they print from the microfilm. There are about 3 million of those cards, filling stacks of drawers, with all the drawings and many of the documents in them.

      On the Space Station project, which I worked on for many years, we had a data vault at Boeing, which was literally a vault in the basement, where all the project data got copies stored, and we of course had to supply copies to NASA, who then put it in their repository. If there is one thing government is good at, is storing documents.

    3. Re:NASA by tuffy · · Score: 1

      Or, they could just look at the Saturn V on display in NASA's visitor center.

      --

      Ita erat quando hic adveni.

    4. Re:NASA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you sure the archive still exists? That it hasn't been expunged by bean-counters looking to cut costs?

    5. Re:NASA by johnny+cashed · · Score: 1

      Or the backup copy kept in Huntsville Alabama:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-500D

    6. Re:NASA by tgd · · Score: 1

      NASA has lost ALL of it's Saturn V knowledge. The scientist have died, the documents have rotten and been lost. The parts were SOLD AS SCRAP. NASA is currently trying to buy up all the lost parts from scrap dealers. All this old knowledge is for the 'new' space program. Yes, we are indeed regressing.

      I can't be 100% certain, but I'm 90% certain 100% of what you posted is wrong. I know 90% of it is wrong.

      Nice job.

    7. Re:NASA by Latinhypercube · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Read this:- (PBS)
      http://www.pbs.org/kcet/wiredscience/story/95-space_junkyard.html
      "All this space detritus ended up here courtesy of a federal rule that required government contractors to return all their built hardware - or sell it for scrap. So Norton Sales made discarded space gear the centerpiece of its business. Their customers used to be mostly souvenir hunters and set decorators for science-fiction movies. But now, rocket scientists and engineers are calling, looking for pieces of the intricate rocket plumbing that haven't been made in four decades. These were the kind of parts that went into the mighty Saturn Five rockets that took men to the moon from the 1960s to the early 1970s. Now, as the United States gears up for a new set of missions to the moon and beyond, NASA is discovering that it has forgotten much about how those original rockets were built. Many of the engineers and contractors who developed the incredible number of pieces of machinery that went into those rockets aren't around anymore. And in many cases, the companies they worked for have changed hands or gone out of business, taking their blueprints and records with them. NASA engineers and technicians are now busily digging up old rocket parts, cleaning them up and reverse-engineering them to figure out how they worked. So the path back to the moon might just go through Norton Sales' salvage yard.."

    8. Re:NASA by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      NASA has lost ALL of it's Saturn V knowledge. The scientist have died, the documents have rotten and been lost. The parts were SOLD AS SCRAP.

      While, as has been pointed out by other posters, you're utterly wrong - I'd like to ask, why do you think this matters? Even if we had all this stuff, it's all fifty years old. Processes, materials, engineering practices... it's all changed, radically, in half a century.
       
      Just to take one example... The Instrument Unit - it weighed over two tones and occupied several hundred cubit feet (for the operating bits, not including the empty space in the middle). Today, it would fit in a few tens of cubic feet (probably well under) and weight only a few hundred pounds.
       

      NASA is currently trying to buy up all the lost parts from scrap dealers. All this old knowledge is for the 'new' space program.

      You're confusing two different stories from a decade apart. The first is NASA buying from scrap dealers in the 90's to keep some non critical 70's era shuttle support equipment running. The second is NASA examining some J2's that are in museums while learning how to rebuild the J2 for use on the Constellation booster. (Anyone who has worked with complex systems knows the documents don't tell the full story anyhow.)
       

      Yes, we are indeed regressing.

      Only if you're foolish enough to believe that fifty year old systems should be common knowledge among engineers who've never worked on those systems. Or that it's possible for documentation to contain 100% of all the relevant information in the first place. But such beliefs go hand-in-hand with believing in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

    9. Re:NASA by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      "Fortunately if someone was to try to rebuild a Saturn V they'd use completely new electronics and software anyway. Heck, it would probably have to run Linux..."

      Fixed that for you.

    10. Re:NASA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every USN ship has engineering drawings on micro film or computer files showing how the ship was built and modified. Naval Stations and ship yards have access to same.

    11. Re:NASA by Carnildo · · Score: 1

      No, the Saturn V blueprints and documentation are still around. The reason why we can't just pull them out and build another Saturn V is that these blueprints don't include the manufacturing drawings for every nut and bolt; rather, they assume the existence of certain standardized components. Some of these components (e.g. vacuum tubes) are no longer made, while others will have changed: for example, the mounting holes for a pump housing may have moved, or a solenoid-actuated valve may no longer be made from the same materials.

      Even "low tech" stuff like pipes may no longer be available. I'm aware of three incompatible changes in the "standard" method of making an end connection between two low-pressure metal pipes; there may have been another one since the Saturn V was built.

      --
      "They redundantly repeated themselves over and over again incessantly without end ad infinitum" -- ibid.
  30. Solution To: I don't comment my code anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Simply convert to COBOL. It's "Self Documenting" !!

  31. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by TheLink · · Score: 1

    The only place documentation is good, is if it is meaningful, and in the code, where it is readily findable and far less likely to get lost, short of some fool deleting it.

    If the organization is that bad that it loses its version control (or doesn't have one), you might consider not having the documentation as comments in the code, but rather as strings (that are not optimized away by the compiler). That way some poor bugger going through the executable years later can read them despite the complete lack of source code.

    I'm kidding of course. ;)

    --
  32. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The only place documentation is good, is if it is meaningful, and in the code, where it is readily findable and far less likely to get lost, short of some fool deleting it.

    Deleting documentation is far more important than writing it. There is nothing worse than documentation that is clear, concise, convincing and that assumes something that is ever-so-subtly wrong due to the code base having been changed since the documentation was written. It's better to update the wrong documentation, but deleting it is far better than leaving it in in most cases. So no, people deleting comments are not necessarily fools, especially not if working to a deadline.

  33. That's why the Feds declassify secret documents by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 2

    It costs money to maintain secrets. If there is no reason to keep it secret anymore it is cheaper not to guard it.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
    1. Re:That's why the Feds declassify secret documents by RGRistroph · · Score: 2

      I don't think the Federal Government is a good example of limiting secrets to save money.

      Declassification is under funded, and mainly a fig leaf.

      Classifying documents as secret is cheap, and has many bureaucratic benefits - making people and projects look import, shielding failures from review, etc. Thus the default is to classify everything.

      I think this applies to other large institutions with secrecy programs as well, such as large corporations.

  34. So what's the problem then? by Colin+Smith · · Score: 2

    Management don't care, why should you? It really can't be all that much of a problem. More a perception than a problem.
    By all means go ahead and create/use a documentation system for your group but clearly there just isn't a requirement for anything more comprehensive.
     

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:So what's the problem then? by 0123456 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Management don't care, why should you? It really can't be all that much of a problem.

      The manager who didn't document anything finished ahead of schedule and below budget. He got a big bonus and moved on to another job at a different company based on his reputation for delivering early and cheap.

      The manager who comes in to organise an upgrade to that software ends up taking much longer than expected and going well over budget because nothing was documented in the initial spaghetti code. He gets fired for being incompetent.

    2. Re:So what's the problem then? by DaveGod · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Sounds familiar. I work in accountancy practice. The first year someone does a good job, gains an understanding of the business, thinks about it, documents the prep file well and puts important long-term stuff into the permanent file. Takes say 100 units of time.

      Second year, someone does a good job, mostly gets to follow last year's files but keep up the documentation, updates it and the permanent file. Takes maybe 60 units of time, which sets a realistic bar.

      Third year, someone follows the previous year file but doesn't bother documenting their own and fuck the permanent file. Takes 40 units time and a pat on the back. Resets the bar at 40 units.

      Year 4, see year 1.

    3. Re:So what's the problem then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have seen a lot of examples where the problem was not lack of documentation but rather that the available documentation documented the obvious things (this is a piece of paper) instead of this is the formula for turning garbage to gold. It is very important to document what the code accomplishes instead of documenting each line of code.

      Good
        document once a purchase order has been approved, prevent changes to the line items

      Bad
      instead of if the PO status = 'APPR' and the item number or price is changed, raise an exception.

    4. Re:So what's the problem then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that this doesn't just existing in engineering (software or other) firms. I've spent most of my career as a research scientist in life sciences working in academia and in the biotech industry.
      There it's just as bad, if not worse. What makes this phenomena alarming is the shear scale of the waste and the unintended consequences especially in drug research and development. I know for a fact that hundreds if not thousands of compounds with promising efficacy & potency against numerous diseases are left gathering dust on the shelf each time a bigger drug company takes over a smaller one. Lab books are lost with vital data regarding experiments and lines of research, and huge swaths of the chemical space is either tied up or made untouchable by dormant / orphan patents. It's sad really and means that society must bear the burden of the cost and inefficiency of the current system where share price takes precedence over everything else.

  35. A nice story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    But have the firms outsourcing their document "management" ever given a thought to the firms handling the documents being copied into digital format?

    What a wonderful source of industrial espionage especially when the documents cross nation-state borders for low cost labor in other Nations.

  36. Oh, that hidebound government bureaucracy! by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2

    Something like this would never happen in private enterprise, where the invisible hand of the free market weeds out such inefficiencies.

    Oh, wait ...

    --
    The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    1. Re:Oh, that hidebound government bureaucracy! by crdotson · · Score: 1

      Nope, happens all the time. If it gets bad enough, the company goes out of business.

      The government cannot go out of business.

  37. A liitle more strange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I have a situation a liitle more strange. A customer of a former employer (now twice aquired) has asked me to act as a customer advocate on a system I wrote as they have "limited" confidence in my former employer being able to maintain the system and the NDA/Non-Competes/IP Ownership prevent me working on the system for the customer.

  38. This is a solved problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We solved this problem year ago, trouble is we didn't document it properly, so we are coming back to it again.

  39. A similar experience by Dartz-IRL · · Score: 2

    I had a similar experience, from the other side of the spectrum. I was the summer intern doing a project that required digging through the paper archives to find some hardware data that was to be entered into a computer simulation.

    It was nowhere to be found. What was documented for this perticular plant was little more than the type of equipment used. Not it's technical ratings or anything. Just what was there. And good luck finding any of that documentation only.

    I also found full documentation for a plant that'd been shut down decades ago. Then demolished. And was now a blank wasteland. "In the hope they would be useful"

    --
    So there I was, scribbling down some notes off the PC screen by hand, when I reached for the keyboard and Ctrl-S'd.
  40. No by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Funny

    Speaking from experience, corporations are unable to give themselves just one name. They have to change their names regularly (because it obviously makes things better, like go faster stripes) and more, they have to change the names of departments even more regularly (again because it improves everything). The result is that any documentation system which is created rapidly becomes fragmented, out of date and lost as the paths to the documents are changed to match the names.

    The conclusion is that using names only makes things worse.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:No by brusk · · Score: 1, Funny

      If you really believed that you would have posted as AC.

      --
      .sig withheld by request
    2. Re:No by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      If you really believed that you would have posted as AC.

      His name looks like "Smith", but it's pronounced "AC"...

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    3. Re:No by TENTH+SHOW+JAM · · Score: 2

      There is much truth in this. My current unit (10 people) has had the same name for 15 years. Meanwhile the pyramid above has been through every permutation possible. People are still able to contact us because we did not let go of our name or branding.

      Managers rarely have to produce a cost benefit analysis for name changes or Organisation chart changes. But they should. If you prove a profit in 12 months (the seeming time between reorganisations) then you can go ahead. Otherwise, No can do. Unfortunately managers don't bother with this step or do it in such a shoddy way as to ignore all the work required in a move.

      This is the source of most Corporate ignorance that I can see.

      --
      A sig is placed here
      To display how futile
      English Haiku is
    4. Re:No by bosef1 · · Score: 2

      I think you may have it backwards. As near as I can tell, at my organization, changing the group names in the hierarchy is actually a source of income. See, if you can claim that the reorganization will leverage synergies or some other intangible, and get corperate to buy into it; they will give you a bunch of overhead money and secretarial support to implement the change. And free overhead money and secretarial support is like, no, better than gold-plated ponies.

  41. A while back I got a desperate phone call by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 1

    I once worked for a digital aerial photography company. It had been acquired by another firm. The new owners desperately hoped that I'd kept a personal copy of all the source I'd written. "of course not" I replied.

    While I was very good at backing up my code some cluebot had taped over it all with aerial photos.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  42. duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Institutional memory is the only asset that matters in the long run. It is the only asset that is not factored in on day to day efforts. The disconnect is both institutional and personal.

    If one were to fix one thing in the USA it would be institutional memory. Globalization might be the second and Keynsianism the third.

    JJ

  43. down side of outsourcing / contractors by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    That paper work can get lost and or end up in some 3rd party's hands.

    or that the documenting part get's passed around and it's not done or is done poorly.

  44. Perhaps small reusable components might help by Colin+Smith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They could do one thing, just one thing, but do it well...

    Now... Where have I heard that philosophy before?
     

    --
    Deleted
  45. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about a built in documentation system within the program as both a user available help, and developer documentation?

  46. salvage and surplus by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    At my institution we routinely buy back equipment from salvage yards it was sold to. But this actually makes sense. We clear out lots of old stuff rather than pack ratting it. It's a small price to pay for the convenience of getting stuff we need back.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  47. It is a solved problem by Bryan+Ward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Years ago people solved this problem but they didn't document their solution well, so here we are again.

  48. sounds like TPS report hell by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    next up is the bobs.

  49. This is What Technical Writers Are For by Nova+Express · · Score: 1

    Sure, end user documentation is one thing, but another reason your hire a technical writer is so they document how systems and processes work in easy-to-understand terms, so that when someone leaves the company, the loss of institutional memory is isn't so great.

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

  50. Know-how and know-why... by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the uncomfortable truths (uncomfortable for MBA cost minimizers) is that know-how is between the ears. It is not in the manuals or specifications, which merely prove that their writers had the know-how. Even more important is the know-why, which is part of the institutional memory which also resides between the ears.

    I have witnessed some "technology transfers" where a set of working products was transferred with documentation, design data, and much background information to a group in another region (mostly EU/US transfers). The first group is then wound down or redeployed. The new group does fine at first, until a new version of a product is needed. Then they always make mistakes the original designers would consider childish or stupid. They don't know the why behind design decisions, and don't know what to avoid. In my experience, it takes 5-10 years to build a decent product design group from scratch. On the other hand, an existing design group will sustain itself by mentoring and guidance of new inductees by experienced members.

    The only successful technology transfer which I participated in was one where a few senior designers were transferred with the set of products they were responsible for. It was far from cheap in up-front costs, but it avoided the crises and financial disasters which afflicted the other transfers after a year or two.

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    1. Re:Know-how and know-why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen. I saw enormous problems with my past employment. The training for all the staff was linear. They encouraged linear 'next action: do this' mentalities. Everything was step-by-step instructions - which is OK for enormous environments where many people do simple, repetitive work.

      However we were a small group (one of many) of I love your term know-why. I'm going to spread that around. Your post made me feel a million times better.

    2. Re:Know-how and know-why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      oops i used a less-than symbol & it broke half my text. anyway, we were a group of less than 10 people with specialised tasks. i constantly got asked for help due to me being able to give alternative solutions... which i attribute to knowing -why- things worked in the business... why we used certain tools etc... the keyword is 'why'. I got absolutely furious cos my coworkers would be like 'i dont want to understand why. its not my job' or 'just tell me what to do next, nevermind the lecture'. drove me up the wall cos i'd constantly get asked for help with specific scenarios but nobody ever wanted to understand the mechanics of their systems/business processes and it made them drones.. useless for asking for advice.. it ended up being that when the customer would call, they'd ask for me by name & if i was on my lunch break they'd hang up & call when i came back. annoying cos my coworkers became less useful.

    3. Re:Know-how and know-why... by Taty'sEyes · · Score: 1

      I'd mod you up as what you say is 100% true from my experience, but you're already +5 Insightful...

      --
      We show geeks how to get their dream girl at EyesOfOdessa.com
    4. Re:Know-how and know-why... by camperdave · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is exactly right. I was employed at a company and I happened to be at reception at closing time. The receptionist pulled out a binder, and her fingers flew across her telephone. I asked her what she was doing. She replied that each night she would have to punch in a 30 button sequence to put the phones onto night service. The receptionist had forgotten the why of what she was doing. Anyways, after analyzing the button sequence, it turned out that the receptionist was redirecting the line pools of department A to the phones of department B. Department B was a 24hr department... at least it used to be. It turns out that both of those departments had been disbanded long before I started there. I reprogrammed the system so that all she had to do was press a single button.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    5. Re:Know-how and know-why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is why the US Navy always has at least one nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, one nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine, and one nuclear-powered fast-attack submarine under development.

    6. Re:Know-how and know-why... by radtea · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One of the uncomfortable truths (uncomfortable for MBA cost minimizers) is that know-how is between the ears. It is not in the manuals or specifications, which merely prove that their writers had the know-how. Even more important is the know-why, which is part of the institutional memory which also resides between the ears.

      A quick perusal of this thread shows no mention of George O. Smith's story Lost Art, which emphasizes precisely this aspect of engineering knowledge. A couple of humans archeologists are digging in the Martian ruins and come upon an ancient Martian device with the manual, which proves to be almost useless until they have done the systematic experimentation to understand how it actually works.

      It was published in December, 1943, which suggests this kind of problem has been happening again and again for the better part of a century. Unfortunately the solution to it (value your people and don't treat them as interchangeable parts to be laid off the moment its convenient to outsource their work) is so completely counter-intuitive to the sociopaths who have always been the ones in charge of large organizations that it will never be implemented consistently.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    7. Re:Know-how and know-why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42

  51. that is why they need Technical writers / writers by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    to do the wiring part so that the tech people have time to do the tech work.

  52. I worked at a compay with good documentation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a contractor I was shown where the docs were on the LAN.
    A frame relay link went down on the other side of the world causing trucks to begin backing up as bills of lading were being done by hand.
    I was able to look at docs turn up a modem on one of the router interfaces to a backup link and call the carrier give the circuit ID and get the link back to full speed.
    I an not a CCNA or any of that crap. Made me hero for a day.
    Man I miss good documentation only found it that one time.

  53. mergers get you that when you can lot's of people by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    and then some messes up and then can have to get them back to fix it / rework it in to the new system.

  54. mod up! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    mod up!

  55. Remember the three laws of consulting by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

    There's profit in confusion

    If you can't be part of the solution there's money to be made in prolonging the problem

    If the client doesn't grimace when you state your fees your were too low

    Seriously, get them in writing to ask you to go through any material you may have that is relevant to the problem at hand and ask you to bring it in without any concern over previous agreements. I'd get a lawyer to draft up the email and agreement. Tell them, off the record, you may have old notes that could help but want to avoid any problems.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  56. Let's blow all the tots to smithereens! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That same company sent me to the University library to learn all I could about Gravity Meters, so we could bid on a government contract to find a bunch of buried waste tanks from a World War I Nitroglycerine factory.

    The land where that factory once sat was scheduled to be transformed into a public park when some old codger died. Among his personal effects were the plans for the plant showing the waste tanks, but no one could figure out where on that parcel the plant had actually been located. The chances were pretty good that one of those waste tanks was going to detonate someday.

    It happened that there was a great deal of published research on gravity meters. They are just very sensitive Mass On A Spring scales. This was in 1988; at the time they could detect a deviation of one part in ten to the minus fifth from the Earth's average gravity.

    Most of the work had been done by some US Army officer who looked into using them to detect tunnels used to smuggle spies from North to South Korea. The effectiveness of the meters depended directly on the solid angle occupied by the void in the ground you were trying to detect. One could detect small holes near the surface, while larger holes could still be detected even when deeper.

    While I concluded that we could easily find all the waste tanks, my company didn't win the contract. I don't know whether they were ever found.

  57. Oh the stories I could tell... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This problem is so common in the defense/aerospace industry that there is an institutionalized response to it.

    I could tell lots of stories of engineers I've meet that were in their late 40's early 50's that were being paid to sit around and play poker at work because the contracts required that knowledge of the system be maintained,

    And back in 'ye olden days" at the start of my career, when a old engineer that was responsible for some important project would retire, he would "bequeath" his stash of personal documentation to the person that he knew was next in line. That used to be the one and only attempt at institutional memory. But this was back when there was actual paper documentation. I won't be able to this when I retire because their isn't any paper documentation. Hell, I can't even do my day-to-day work if the network goes down and I can't get access to the info I need.

  58. I'm that for my ex employer... by thesandtiger · · Score: 2

    I worked for an organization from day 1 and was involved in every project we ever worked on. After several years there, that organization wound up merging with another organization and I decided it was time for me to move on.

    It's been almost a year since I left, and every day I get 2-3 emails asking me for information, and as a way for them to not feel embarrassed for asking, they actually created a 1/10th time paid position for me and the job title is, literally, "Institutional Memory."

    I go in for a couple of hours every few weeks and do a data dump with one team or another, and they're slowly starting to amass documentation as to what was done and why it was done that way.

    At my new job the first thing I did when I came onboard was to set us up with an internal wiki for every single project we have and everyone puts notes on the projects, why they're doing things the way they are, etc. on that. It's a good way to have as much of a paper trail as possible.

    --
    Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  59. Ask intel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One of the things they do very well is... no, not designing chips, they suck at that, but duplicating fab plants. Down to getting everyone that's gonna work in there up to speed before the plant is finished.

    The key is of course not to just build a plant. It's to build at least two plants, at least one in reality and one in the documentation. Fred Brooks (yes, exactly in his book _the mythical man-month_) explains how this works for software and computer hardware. It won't be different for processing plants, except of course that your production numbers are lower. But even with just one physical plant, you need full documentation on how to replicate it, with every task and every job described. And then, of course, you update the documentation along with any updates to the plant, bring it back up to the level where you can xerox the paper into reality again.

    The test is exactly that: Can we give this to another engineer and have him duplicate the thing from that? Yes, most software documentation fails that test and is utterly useless as api docs or user manual to boot-- as if those code monkeys don't even read what they wrote, the illiterate bums. And yes, you probably should check every five or ten years if it's still understandable. If that's expensive, well, you get to pay more thirty years down the line. Or you can start from scratch, if you prefer.

    Notwithstanding that this documentation archaeology an interesting excercise, but as TFA illustrates, it makes for rather schizophrenic situations, is way out of the usual corporate flow of how things normally go, cost a bundle, takes a lot of time, and is fraught with uncertainty. Care and feeding of the corporate library is future-proofing the IP assets, far more so than filling a war-chest with patents. It's about as sexy as caring for the backup tapes, but you have those too for a very good reason.

  60. "New and improved" disease by meburke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Accounting, for instance, has been done the same way for almost 500 years, yet there are thousands of accounting packages available, written in dozens of different languages, even to run on the same hardware. Some programs (Quickbooks, for instance) have been "improved" beyond comprehension while still preserving their deficiencies and shortcomings.

    Once a problem is solved in programming, it should never have to be solved again. Most of the underlying code in computer systems is based on programs written back in the early days of digital computers. By adding the basic "components" together, more complex systems problems can be solved at a higher scale of interaction and complexity. So, scaling can be a problem. And, how the heck are we supposed to know where to find the original solution to the problem? (Note: There have been attempts to "hash" the common solutions and create unique, searchable identifiers, but I don't know what ever happened to those experiments. The ACM maintains and makes available a "library" of fundamental algorithims, but it is getting unmanageable.).

    Now the person coming in to review or improve legacy code has a "complexity" obstacle that prevents him from easily determining the purpose and scope of the code.

    In the digital world, programs work on data. Every digital program relies on sequence, alternation, and repetition. Many researchers (Djikstra, Jacopini, Martin and more) have shown that these are directly comparable to concepts in mathematical logic (sequential proof, decision rule, and quantification) and have demonstrated ways to "prove" programs correct. In today's world, we have the power to actually analyze programs, derive the structures, and prove the validity of the results at a meta-level (giving a nod to Goedel on the way). A meta system of this kind should discover what a program or system does, whether it does it correctly, and whether it does ONLY what it is supposed to. Now the problem becomes one of making the results understandable. The various packages that analyze source code and produce UML documentation are a very good start in that direction. I am concerned, because, (as recent demonstrations of Stuxnet and Duqu show) the interaction of flawed systems can have accumulating ill effects on those of us who have to depend more and more on computer systems to control our cars, our environment and the tools we use in our lives.

    Not every industrial process is as easy to analyze as software. And the complexity of modern industrial processes makes it even harder to understand once the process has been analyzed. Much of industrial behavior is analog; much of it is probabilistic; and much of it depends on uncontrollable inputs such as human behavior, and human mis-interpretation of the situation. If I was part of the investigating team trying to preserve lost company know-how, I'd probably go back to anything resembling requirements analysis, and work forward from there.

    --
    "The mind works quicker than you think!"
    1. Re:"New and improved" disease by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Once a problem is solved in programming, it should never have to be solved again.

      It will have to be solved over and over again, because reusing an old solution is "stealing" someone's "intellectual property". At some point all viable solutions will be exhausted and patented, which means that the problem will never be solved again.

    2. Re:"New and improved" disease by meburke · · Score: 1

      Naw...The collection of prior art will collapse the patent system long before that happens. This article http://mises.org/daily/5025/The-Fight-Against-Intellectual-Property has some good arguments that I see as a prediction that "common sense" will return to patent law. I am intrigued by the argument that patents are a government monopoly-granting process allowing IP holders to attack the property rights of others.

      And human creativity shows no sign of being finite, so I suspect that different solutions will keep appearing.

      --
      "The mind works quicker than you think!"
    3. Re:"New and improved" disease by avandesande · · Score: 1

      We also live in the age of 'if you can think of it then it has probably been done'

      http://sourceforge.net/projects/jledger/

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
  61. Old news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The morons responsible for the business push from the very beginning are the ones responsible for not giving a rat's ass afterward as long as the widget works. If it works, they continue to perpetuate this very issue with the next widget, otherwise, you wind up with more job-cuts, terminations, etc.

  62. What you are looking for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...is a knowledge manager.

    Sadly, they do not exist in most organizations and when they do they report to the wrong people (it should be something like CIO->KM->IT director). The job of the knowledge manager is to ensure that the necessary knowledge is kept around as long as needed.

    Why is this needed? Let me give an example: In the late 90's most of our regional offices were closed. Staff were given one week to pack all the company records up, organize the contents of the servers (and burn to CD), and leave. Everything was then piled together in a warehouse for the next 15 years. During that time all the stuff from the different offices jumbled together, discs were destroyed by the climate, and the environment severely degraded much of the paper. Even now we are just starting to go back through all of that information. The cost to the organization to recreate that information has already reached the millions and that does not include the lost business opportunities.

    People ask us "why did IT/legal/someone take care of this at the time" and the answer is that it is NOT their jobs. Their jobs are much more narrow in scope, and frankly, would they even know in time to do anything about it?

    I would like to think that one day large companies will realize this and start implementing knowledge management practices, but considering the millions I have seen the company I work at waste I try not to get my hopes up.

    1. Re:What you are looking for by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      "Knowledge Manager"?
      Perhaps the word you're looking for is Librarian

    2. Re:What you are looking for by frisket · · Score: 1

      The cost to the organization to recreate that information has already reached the millions and that does not include the lost business opportunities.

      You think the company gives a rat's ass about this? It'll be hidden in the capital account as an investment, so it will never affect the bottom line. I suggest that if the company couldn't care about it, you shouldn't either, unless you have a personal intellectual stake in it (like it was something you personally invented, and are therefore due the kudos for). Most senior managers are far too stupid to grasp the effects of their actions, and are far too adept at hiding them — that's why they are in the position they are in.

    3. Re:What you are looking for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What duties being a librarian covers depends on the circumstances. Generally speaking, a librarian is more limited in scope and tends to deal with already-captured knowledge. A librarian would store and organize project documentation, but would not be involved in driving the development of that documentation.

      I would also add that when most people think of a librarian they are thinking of that little old lady at their local public library.

    4. Re:What you are looking for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You think the company gives a rat's ass about this? It'll be hidden in the capital account as an investment, so it will never affect the bottom line. I suggest that if the company couldn't care about it, you shouldn't either, unless you have a personal intellectual stake in it (like it was something you personally invented, and are therefore due the kudos for). Most senior managers are far too stupid to grasp the effects of their actions, and are far too adept at hiding them — that's why they are in the position they are in.

      Does the CEO care? Nope, not at all. He (and the other C's) appear to be completely clueless about how the company really works (shocking, I know).

      That said, the people in the director-level positions are aware of the problem and some are slowly trying to fix it. Unfortunately, they have to go around both the IT department and the Cs to get it done. These are the guys that care about it because it directly affects the ability of their groups to get work done. They are the ones who have been with the company for a decade or more and remember that the documentation/records USED to exist but nobody has a clue where they are/how to locate them.

  63. psst here's the real problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone knows that documentation is important, just like everyone knows that regular backups, writing highly readable code, checking tools into version control, and many other things are important. It's not exactly a revelation when these are proselytized in fashionable "best practices" books like "Code Complete" and "The Pragmatic Programmer".

    The problem is that that's not how people get rewarded in an organization, particularly larger organizations with many levels (let's say six or more) between the CEO and individual contributor. In fact, there is a disincentive to do many of these things because they would make it easier for senior management to replace the workers who did them.

    1. Re:psst here's the real problem by markdavis · · Score: 1

      >"The problem is that that's not how people get rewarded in an organization"

      Bingo. Like I said in my original post, it is a LONG TERM payoff. But most organizations are short-term driven. They don't care about long-term things that matter, because they can't see past next year, or next month.

      There is little short-term reward for good documentation, other than the satisfaction that you are doing the right thing. And in the I.T. industry, tenure is typically measured in single years, not multiple years or decades.

  64. labour relations by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Many companies have a tiny number of people who manage things, and then a sea of consultants who do things. Often the management of the consultant groups are consultants themselves.And even the managers of the managers are often consultants. The result? Corporate Memento syndrome. No long term memories get formed because the people who do the remembering are gone. Stuff is rar'd or stuf'd or tar balled into a series of docs that sit on a server than is run by an bunch of consultants in IT who have no idea what is on the drive.

    Then the drive either fails or is dumped into a bigger storage drive and labeled in a folder "management data 2009" or whatever, and there it rots because no one has any idea what's inside, and the people with access are consultants who don't/can't know.

    and why? Because it's cheaper to hire a river of consultants for 6 months than it is to hire people and keep them around for years. The result? Permanent amnesia. All of it will be lost, and no one will care. the essence of 21st century culture - digital business - will be erased and forgotten. Forever. Some would say "Good riddance", but I'm enough of an armchair anthropologist to feel the loss.

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  65. Not just engineers, either. by arcsimm · · Score: 2

    An architecture firm I contract for was trying to submit a handful of their projects for energy efficiency tax credits. This involved assembling a set of drawings and CAD files for a outside consultant to create energy models of the buildings in question. Architects are required to retain these drawings for about ten years for liability reasons, so this should be easy right...?

    Haha, wrong! Sure, they retained the drawings... digitally. But nobody bothered to check that all of the cross-referenced CAD files got saved, or that the links inside of them them weren't broken when they got moved to near-line storage, or that consultant drawings were saved, or that Jimmy The Intern hadn't linked in a dozen files from his desktop for the sake of expediency and never got around to moving them to central storage before he went back to college, and then IS wiped his account. What should have been a quick dive into the archives turned into a three-month-long wild goose chase. Let's just say that I got really familiar with the large-format scanner and the AutoCAD Reference Manager tool.

  66. The opposite problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My company doesn't understand the meaning of "end of life" and will for the appropriate service contract pretty much support our customers for ever....

    15 year old ? No problem. Still running version 1.0 firmware - when you bring it in for service, and we have to completely rebuild with modern flash etc., we will rebuild version 1.0 of the firmware to work with whatever hardware.

    No big deal right? Well, we already have maxed out our engineering resources (scheduled for new projects) that these request are like throwing a monkey wrench into the gears. This is all justified because some sales guy convinced management that the service contract is worth it. Keeps are parts people busy as well - trying to find suitable replacements for 10 year old hardware. 10 years old. That would be Pentium III/933 era. And that is for a mass produced consumer computer. Now, try finding flash or ram from that era.

  67. Happened to me at NASA... by JetScootr · · Score: 4, Informative

    I worked 30 years in astronaut training facility (full-fidelity simulators), and wrote many many documents on software that I wrote. I always kept my own digital copies, of course. Over the years, the contracts changed hands many times, and different document systems were implemented, and "all" documents were "always" converted from old to new. I was never able to later re-locate *any* document I had submitted to *any* of the document systems. So my copies of my documents were the only ones that actually existed that I knew of. This included meeting minutes, peer review notes, design and 'as-delivered' documents. So I think institutional amnesia is more the norm, and actual memory beyond 3-5 years is rare.

    --
    Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
  68. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by mbone · · Score: 1

    Outside of the code, all documentation is worthless

    Don't look at man pages much, I'll wager.

  69. Thieves by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

    And then they wonder why people think that consultants are basically thieves with a title.

    What makes you think consultants get a title?

    --
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  70. I've seen it happen a different way by roc97007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I saw a company lose probably 60% of their IT knowledge base. They announced outsourcing six months in advance, and directed current employees to document their jobs so that offshore workers could take over. Employees instead used the time to find other jobs, as one would expect. Transition was a disaster, and a year later they're still discovering things that the company no longer knows how to do.

    One of the mistakes made was to assume that everything the old team did could be described as a procedure that a junior offshore employee could follow. This is a fallacy at a basic level, and shows a basic misunderstanding of IT. Knowledge is more than just memorization of individual procedures, it's information about topology, architecture, the flow of information, how the business works, and where the knowledge points are in the organization. (Who knows what.) Degradation of that knowledge base began on the day outsourcing was announced, and by the time transition arrived, there wasn't much left.

    The basic misunderstanding, I believe is thinking that IT is generic procedure-based stuff that anyone could do. There are cases where this is true, but if you are in the business of providing a web based business, your IT *is* your value add, and your success is probably based on in what way your team does things that *aren't* generic.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    1. Re:I've seen it happen a different way by brhalltx · · Score: 3, Informative

      One of the mistakes made was to assume that everything the old team did could be described as a procedure that a junior offshore employee could follow. This is a fallacy at a basic level, and shows a basic misunderstanding of IT. Knowledge is more than just memorization of individual procedures, it's information about topology, architecture, the flow of information, how the business works, and where the knowledge points are in the organization. (Who knows what.) Degradation of that knowledge base began on the day outsourcing was announced, and by the time transition arrived, there wasn't much left.

      I've seen the same. I took over a fairly large database project with distributed client software from a previous team. I had about a day to ask questions of that team. I learned most of it on my own; I added a lot of code comments, logging, and documentation as I went. The project was outsourced; they had 30 days of daily sessions and Q&A to learn the project. The team it was outsourced to supposedly had experience with this particular database (it has a client/user interface built on top of the database engine). They asked a lot of questions (all answered), received all of the documentation, had access to test servers for testing code changes, and managed to screw it up within a couple of days of taking it over. The support part of the team starting contacting me for help... After I'd been laid off. Not much I could do to help for free... They, of course, then promptly blamed me, claiming they hadn't been trained on whatever they screwed up. I heard it took them six months to get it straightened out again. You get what you pay for.

    2. Re:I've seen it happen a different way by roc97007 · · Score: 2

      When IT cratered after transition, the survivors (of which I was one) attended an all-hands meeting where the suits tried to explain the problems. Their first position was that the former IT people had not documented the processes properly before the layoff, and that's why things were so messed up now. They were shouted down by the crowd. It was wonderful. :-)

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  71. mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "If you have a procedure with ten parameters, you probably missed some."

    - Alan Perlis

  72. History vs. Archaeology by DrVomact · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Management don't care, why should you? It really can't be all that much of a problem. More a perception than a problem. By all means go ahead and create/use a documentation system for your group but clearly there just isn't a requirement for anything more comprehensive.

    All too true. The sooner you learn not to care, the sooner you will stop feeling the pain. Surrender to mediocrity; obey all rules and your managers without question. Above all, do not let your work interfere with your life. You will be a happier person, and probably get promoted. Listen to me, oh young ones...heed the words of the Ancient One: Despair!

    Once upon a time, I worked in a relatively small organization within a Very Large Company. The VLC was renowned for its inventiveness, until a new manager came who felt that inventing things was much too expensive; it would be more profitable to just to put the word "Invent" on the corporate logo, and then re-sell stuff from countries who make things cheaply. Because our corporate logo was on these re-branded products, we must obviously have invented them. Thus, marketing ceased to be a partner of R&D, and instead replaced it. Clever, eh?

    One of my contributions to the VLC was a simple document management system (DMS). My boss mentioned that all the engineers in our lab kept complaining that "they can't find anything"—specifically, nobody could find old documentation for code that was written by vanished civilizations of programmers that had previously labored at the lab. In fact, it turned out that this was a general problem among the labs of the VLC, and that they all wished mightily for a solution. Apart from really ancient projects (from, say 10 years ago), it was pretty difficult to find documentation for even recent projects, as each lab had a different way of organizing its documentation, different document formats, and no channels for distributing the documentation to other groups who might have a legitimate interest. So I brought in an easy-to-use and easily maintained DMS, pitched it to the engineers at our lab, and got them to use it. My boss then made me contact a bunch of other labs, and offer them the use of the same DMS. A lot of their engineers liked it, and there was much happiness. I got lots of pats on the back for what was really a pretty simple idea, and my boss loved me for it. A year later, I was laid off.

    As I was the only one maintaining this system, and no one ever asked me to train a replacement, I doubt that this DMS—and its contents—survived, save perhaps as digital ghosts on some unlabeled backup media in a faraway storage cave. In a sense, I'm one of the perpetrators of information decay; I caused all the knowledge deposited in "my" DMS to get black-holed. Come to think of it, this is probably not a problem; I'm pretty sure they've laid off all the engineers by now.

    I understood very well that simply setting up a DMS was not the cure for the I-can't-find-anything problem. It was a beginning, at best. What was needed was a comittment by the organization as a whole to make sure the information continued to be available for as long as the company exists. Because engineering practices change, so do documentation practices; documentation technologies themselves change—not to mention physical storage media and data encoding. My DMS probably should have been replaced with something better by now (if it had continued in use), and that means someone would have had to plan the transition, and move the old docs to the new system. Maybe the best thing to do is print everything as hard copy from time to time, and hire a librarian to keep track of this backup.

    Considering how much has been said and written (and blathered) about "knowledge management", it's amazing how little attention is ever given to the temporal aspect of institutional knowledge. Every engineering company should have an Office of Knowledge that has as part of its responsibility not

    --
    Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    1. Re:History vs. Archaeology by joebagodonuts · · Score: 1

      I knew which company you were writing about even before reading the logo portion of your post. I'm still there. I wish your DMS had survived. I could use it today.

      --
      "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
    2. Re:History vs. Archaeology by marcosdumay · · Score: 2

      "Maybe the best thing to do is print everything as hard copy from time to time, and hire a librarian to keep track of this backup."

      Do you have any idea how much such a library would cost?! No, we can't afford that.

    3. Re:History vs. Archaeology by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      All too true. The sooner you learn not to care, the sooner you will stop feeling the pain. Surrender to mediocrity; obey all rules and your managers without question. Above all, do not let your work interfere with your life. You will be a happier person, and probably get promoted. Listen to me, oh young ones...heed the words of the Ancient One: Despair!

      This is the absolute truth. Learn it easy now, or the hard way as you are booted out the door. I know this from experience. It is very true.

      Meanwhile, I've done this. Actually, I'm in the middle of doing it again. I've thrown documents in the deep pit of the corporate Document Management System, however, I've tried to keep it all together by linking documents together by reference and hyperlinking. Fab stuff, except people keep saying that they can't find a thing without a link. *sigh* and this is for a mandated DMS.

      So, now, I'm doing it again. This time with 'newer' technology (which shall not be named here, but of course is "Quick") .. same concept.. just easier to do instead of plain HTML. And on it goes.

      Worst thing I have done is documented the system I used to admin.. I have been replaced by monkeys for whom management thinks is doing *my* job because they can follow basic documented procedures badly. However, I take secret delight that it is not *full* documentation - it is merely a how-to and a where-is than anything else. You could use it to maintain the existing system, but you still need to know how the system works... and why it works the way it does.

      I have been kicked, and badly. By The Manager, and Publicly no less.

      Yes, I am on my way Out (tm).
      Yes, I was paid to build and maintain this and other systems, so that is in the past and done. I did my job, and did it well.
      If these monkeys can't find the system documentation then it isn't my problem.

      Now I am sitting back and watching the system degrade. Processes I created and documented are being sloppily followed, some not at all. Highly paid 'technical' people are spending days doing what takes me hours. Management doesn't care. Management doesn't want to know. Unless the system is down and someone is screaming then it Does Not Matter. Even then it is a case of 'fix this little problem now and I don't care why'.

      What really sucks is that I am carrying quite a bit of useful information in my head.

      So, what I am doing now is secretly bundling up what I know, putting documents and information together, linking it where it can be found and putting it where someone who - at some point in the future - will be able to find it and who will need to use it. I wish that person luck and happiness. It won't be tomorrow, or the day after, not next week or next month. Next year? Perhaps. Most likely in 3 to 4 years from now, when they find out that these twits should not be allowed near computers, let alone be allowed to administrate systems.. then this will be needed.

      Until then, I am being paid. I am doing my job, and my primary job is to make the PHB manager happy.

      I can no longer read Dilbert. It's too depressing, because it is too real.

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    4. Re:History vs. Archaeology by avandesande · · Score: 1

      I am going to be taking PMP training next month and I am thinking that Dilbert is going to be the manual.

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    5. Re:History vs. Archaeology by DrVomact · · Score: 1

      Yes, I am on my way Out (tm). Yes, I was paid to build and maintain this and other systems, so that is in the past and done. I did my job, and did it well. If these monkeys can't find the system documentation then it isn't my problem.

      Now I am sitting back and watching the system degrade. Processes I created and documented are being sloppily followed, some not at all. Highly paid 'technical' people are spending days doing what takes me hours. Management doesn't care. Management doesn't want to know. ...

      Until then, I am being paid. I am doing my job, and my primary job is to make the PHB manager happy.

      I can no longer read Dilbert. It's too depressing, because it is too real.

      Well, look at the bright side: perhaps if you succeed in making the PHB happy by being sufficiently apathetic, you may be allowed to remain in your hell-job indefinitely!

      After I got laid off from the "inventive" company, I was hired by an international pharma giant. Things went well, until after about 2 years of my working 12 hour days, a new boss came on board. I knew things were going downhill when he started ignoring everything I said in meetings. (He was fine about collecting the award for "technical innovation" he got on the basis of my work, though.) Then one day, he gave me an assignment a small part of which involved writing an installation script. I knew buddy X, who worked for another manager had written almost exactly the same thing. He'd have to change maybe 3 lines of code, and it would be done. So I walked down 5 cubicles, and asked him for help. He gladly obliged. I emailed my boss and told him that part of the problem was done.

      The next thing I knew, I was sitting in the boss's office, along with my immediate line supervisor (also known as a "straw boss")—receiving an official reprimand for crossing departmental lines without permission. I had *gasp* used another department's resources! I was slackjawed during the whole thing, I couldn't believe it was happening. I kept thinking, "Franz Kafka, are you watching this?" (I later figured out that this job that I had been given was never meant to work—it was something that my boss had been stuck with as a result of a request from another department (not the one whose "resources" I had "misappropriated"), and he had no intention of giving these other guys what they wanted. The thing I had truly done wrong was to knock myself out and bring the project to the point where it was difficult for him to think up reasons why it couldn't be done!

      And then there was the 12 hour program. The PHB had asked another person (his favorite, slated to replace me) to write a simple program to look for duplicate "unique" keys in an XML file. OK, it was a fairly large file—probably a couple of hundred meg. The program took 12 hours to run. I looked at the XML transform, and the thing walked the entire XML tree in both directions for each key, looking to see if there was another identical key. Turned out it was a great excuse for my boss to explain why our projects were always late. I admit it was pure meanness on my part to write another program (in Perl) that did the same thing in two CPU seconds.

      Here again, my problem was that I simply cared too much about the quality of my work, and about getting work done. It is a big, big mistake. The point of work in a corporation is not to actually do work. And, as you have noticed (and learned in your own "professional" life), I am not joking.

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    6. Re:History vs. Archaeology by DrVomact · · Score: 1

      I am going to be taking PMP training next month and I am thinking that Dilbert is going to be the manual.

      I think Scott Adams has lost his edge since he got canned by the company he worked for; he's far too happy now that he is in "retirement". I won't ask what "PMP training" involves...

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    7. Re:History vs. Archaeology by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

      Well, look at the bright side: perhaps if you succeed in making the PHB happy by being sufficiently apathetic, you may be allowed to remain in your hell-job indefinitely!

      I am seriously considering this. As we speak I am putting the final points together to automate part of the security system. Once it is in place, then the time to make changes reduces (again, mind you, I did the first part of this years ago - which has not changed since). Once this is in place a nice front end will allow users to modify their own security, according to the business rules which will be in the master driver program. Nice, hey. End result - one slacker on the team has nothing to do anymore.

      This is just one of dozens of projects I can keep myself busy with, and show that I am doing 'work' to the PHB .. which could keep me going until the PHB is replaced or fixed.

      It's an option.

      Right now I am concentrating on fixing 'life'. Job / career is taking a back seat.

      I know what you mean about being replaced by a 'favourite'. Happened to me, and not that long ago. Lost my promotion to it. My revenge: The dipshit favourite can't do anything outside of MS Office programs, and I turned down a transfer go ... and now my previous boss is stuck with this dick who really can't produce. Oh well.

      Meanwhile, I have learned to find happiness in making it appear to the PHB that 'work' is being done, all the while actually doing 'real' work in the back ground and documenting all of the problems going on.

      How long will I survive? Who knows, but we are now stuck in a corner on the opposite side of the building from the PHB. Out of sight, out of mind? :-)

      Getting a new job isn't the problem... finding my current job, or one like it, elsewhere.. that is a problem. Worst comes to worst I can jump ship very fast.. so long as I care to live with what I am jumping in to.

      Advice for you: Learn to hide your accomplishments, or make them look like an accident. Just like I am about to 'accidentally' replace my co-worker with a DB, some basic code and a pretty front end.

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    8. Re:History vs. Archaeology by DrVomact · · Score: 1

      ... As we speak I am putting the final points together to automate part of the security system. Once it is in place, then the time to make changes reduces (again, mind you, I did the first part of this years ago - which has not changed since). Once this is in place a nice front end will allow users to modify their own security, according to the business rules which will be in the master driver program. Nice, hey. End result - one slacker on the team has nothing to do anymore.

      This is just one of dozens of projects I can keep myself busy with, and show that I am doing 'work' to the PHB .. which could keep me going until the PHB is replaced or fixed.

      We seem to think alike. I did pretty much the same thing for the last year or so that I was at my previous (and last) employer. I called my policy "aggressive helpfulness". Basically, "aggressive helpfulness" is to find stuff that needs fixing—and fix it so well that nobody can deny that my changes are an improvement. Under the circumstances, it was a form of guerrilla warfare. For example, there were 12 pages of instructions for the non-programmers who worked on transforming our XML documents to HTML Help and PDF. They consisted of many, many manual steps, each of which was an opportunity for error. For me, the worst part was the sheer tedium of the process. They wanted me to help out doing these manual transformations. (Considering how long it all took, and how many times you screwed up entering all those individual commands, they needed all they help they could get during crunch time!) I took one look at the instructions (written by The Favorite, of course), and said (to myself) "no way". So I wrote a Perl program that did all the file manipulations, XSL transforms, and miscellaneous command line stuff. Then I slapped together a Perl/Tk GUI front end. When I was done, all you had to do was bring up the GUI, browse for the files you wanted to process, check a couple of options, and click "Go".

      I didn't do these things to convince my boss that I was useful; the guy hated me for reasons that I will never completely understand, and nothing would change his opinion of me, nor his intent to break me. I did it because it was imperative to have "accomplishments" to list on my annual "self evaluations". (I don't know if you are familiar with "self evaluations". Basically, they are an HR technique that dates back to Stalinist-Communist "self-criticism" sessions. You get up in front of an audience, and confess your failings. In this case, the audience was my straw boss, my real boss (Demonic Manager), and his boss (Bum Boy).) I was required to list my "failures" on the "self assessment". They were usually something like "Did not complete project X because management decided to cancel it", or "Could not write French manual because I do not know French". But I made sure my guerrilla projects were listed on the plus side of the form. As the existence of these fixes could not be denied (everyone was using them), I usually managed to pull out fairly high marks on these "self evaluations". So there was no way they could fire me for cause—not in a way that wouldn't leave them open for a lawsuit (alas, I am old). But a "layoff"...that worked for them.

      Over the two years since I was forced out of my previous job, I've been contacted twice by headhunters who said I exactly fit the profile for a wonderful job they had, and would I please consider it. When I read the job description, I realized it was either another job where HR had cribbed the exact wording of my official ex-job description...or it was my ex-job. I told them there was a certain employer I could, for contractual reasons, no longer work for. Yes, it turned out I was being asked to replace myself. I feel sorry for the other grunts that are still working there; I did my best to help them.

      Advice for you: Learn to hide your accomplishments, or make them look like an accident. Just like I am about

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
    9. Re:History vs. Archaeology by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

      Do you really hate this guy? Or are you just making sure there are sacrificial lambs ahead of you in the line that leads to the headsman?

      Good question.

      He threatened me, publically in front of everyone (approx 40 people) and loudly. He is Unstable, and this is well known to management. Still, nothing is done.

      No, he won't lose his job. Here is what will happen:
      Phase 1) Security system goes in
      Result: Security changes now take the same amount of time (long story), however there is now a full audit trail and proper control.

      Phase 2) Shiny front end
      Result: Security changes take 1/5 to 1/3 of the time currently required

      Phase 3) Open Shiny Front End to End Users
      Result: Admins no longer make security changes. End users can view and change security as required; system enforces the business rules. Minimum administrator action required.

      Final result: This guy does something else with his time.

      Chances he will lose his job are zero.
      The major problems will be 1) Get the system in and 2) stop the admins from making manual changes

      I feel the pain. So many years left of this. Thank you for your insights, I really appreciate your thoughts and experiences. It helps.

      So, back to work I go.. ... aggressive helpfulness
        Excellent.

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
  73. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by frisket · · Score: 1

    Gosh, what a good idea...

  74. Very common by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've worked for 6 companies over the last 30 years, and it's happened at every one. Just like layoffs. Companies spend millions developing processes or technology and even if it works well they eventually shitcan it and the employees for something new. I suspect a lot of it has to do with new management who want to make their mark before they move up the food chain.

  75. 30 years to forget is good... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I left a company 6 months ago and they are now rebuilding the system I build because the new guys can't figure out how it works. When I started there 2/12 years ago I rebuilt the current system because I couldn't figure out how it worked...

    1. Re:30 years to forget is good... by JoeCommodore · · Score: 1

      And so goes the cycle of tech. Disney should make a movie about it. :-)

      --
      "Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
  76. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I write all my programs as a LISP interpreter and a shitload of string constants containing sexps to evaluate -- any fresh-from-college CS kid can implement a LISP interpreter (or reuse one he wrote in school and got a B-), and the text is self-explanatory -- plus it's great for portability, as only the small interpreter (and string syntax, which is automatable) is language-dependent.

  77. Yup, Seen it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Most companies and managers do not appreciate experience. Just left a company after 9 years. They lost ALOT of knowledge, for a few dollars of a pay raise I did not get and working conditions. Watched another company I was at that lost the documentation, trench for a while to find where the break in the conduit was, when it was just a turn at a junction box. In discussions with my current company about installer that left the company, and did an inadequate job, I want to fix, customer is already mad, I have the experience, but spent Friday doing nothing and probably Monday talking about it while the no actual work is getting done.

    So YES it is RAMPANT!

    1. Re:Yup, Seen it! by Webmoth · · Score: 1

      Apparently that knowledge didn't include the fact that A LOT is two words.

      --
      Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
  78. Burn the documents? by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 2

    Sure, it's great to help out the company and as engineers we like to just get things done. The problem is that the legal department doesn't give a fuck and would sooner sue you than allow anything to get done on time. Burning your personal copies of the documents might not help the project get done, but it will save your ass should anyone with malicious intent start asking why you have documents you're not allowed to have. You're a consultant so it's not like a project failure is going to cost you your job. I don't know how risky this is because I don't know the details of the situation, but there's no way I'd risk my neck, and career, over a company I left many years ago that wasn't competent enough to keep its own damn files.

    --
    -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    1. Re:Burn the documents? by PPH · · Score: 2

      Yep. And legal will tell you: You must have a document destruction policy in place and follow it consistently. If not, a the destruction of documentation in the face of a potential lawsuit will look all the more suspicious.

      Burn it all. That way a prosecutor can't impute some nefarious intent when some critical evidence goes missing.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  79. Sounds very familiar by David-D2 · · Score: 1

    I'm in the military and everyone who's ever been in the military knows they love to change everything. A new general or colonel will get a new job and has to make himself look good by improving everything, changing names of everything, restructuring, making lots of tours, etc. My job is highly technical and requires coordination with many different agencies and contractors. They don't worry about making the job easier or better, they only worry about aesthetics. They put holds on personnel so people are stuck in one place too long, then when the hold is lifted a sudden export of airmen occurs, along with all of those years of experience, to be replaced by new airmen that have no experience. The new airmen try to figure it out and fail, then ask the ones who have left and the names and processes don't line up anymore. Old ideas that were developed over years are gone and replaced with new ideas that are just as green as the people trying to develop them. People throw things away. People lose things. People get lazy and cut corners, because no one knows enough to realize why those corners were there. Over time things slowly get better and people gain experience, just as new supervision takes over and it starts all over again. I love being in the military, but I think I will love leaving it just as much.

  80. The Real Problem - Corporate Attitudes by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3

    There have been a lot of nice and informative comments to this point about the various facets and symptoms of the problem, but here is the problem itself: Corporate Attitudes.

    1: Companies don't give you time to write peer-reviewed documentation because that doesn't contribute to Time To Market and overall productivity.

    2: Companies seldom ask you to train your replacement in the I.T. world because they don't want you around once you realize that you're about to be laid off/fired. Who in I.T. hasn't had the experience yet of being marched off the property under the watchful eye of somebody (I've had it done where they guy actually carried a gun) within an hour of being told that you don't work here any longer. You find that you passwords were disabled during your 15 minute (at most) exit interview and given a box to clean out your work-area under guard.

    3: Most importantly, the corporate belief is that nobody is indispensable, and they're willing to prove it with you no matter how much you know that no one else does because the more senior that you were, the less anyone else was watching over what you did in the first place.

    In short, you're gone and they simply don't appreciate or value what they lost with you. And find this far more prevalent in I.T. than in most other areas.

    The flip-side is that you've probably also been hired at least once to pick up and complete an undocumented project of someone else that they previously let go. Isn't that fun?

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  81. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like you work for a defense company. We have maybe a dozen people writing code yet over a hundred in the SW group.

  82. Same issue, different format by meerling · · Score: 2

    I've seen it happen at a software company. They have a Knowledge Base that the technicians recorded every solution, the causes, and any fixes that we could find. There was a bit of duplication of entries due to some issues being described or even experienced improperly, not to mention the occasional insufficient or improper use of keywords and descriptions.
    Some higher up got the bright idea of merging the duplicate documents to save storage space. That was fine. Then they decided to expand it to eliminate entries that hadn't been accessed in 6 months or longer. That was moronic. Sure enough, it wasn't long before it turned around and bit us in the backside. But management wouldn't budge. They refused to restore the old documents, even when it was on something we now needed, nor would they stop deleting stuff that hadn't been accessed for a while.
    To add insult to injury, they would then use the count of how many documents you had in the KB against you if it wasn't high enough. Well, Soandso, you only have 120 documents, why should I listen to you instead of Otherguy, he's got 14657 documents and is in charge of the KB cleanup.
    You see, the guys doing the KB cleanup and deduplication were going through all the documents and replacing the owner/creator names with their own so they could bloat their own credit, and management (at least the part I had to deal with) was too stupid to understand this. I have no idea how they rationalized that somebody who'd only worked for the company for less than 2 years could have written thousands of documents that were over 4 years old.

    Yes, in a somewhat different form, this probably affects all companies in one way or another.

    1. Re:Same issue, different format by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      Some higher up got the bright idea of merging the duplicate documents to save storage space. That was fine. Then they decided to expand it to eliminate entries that hadn't been accessed in 6 months or longer.

      What the hell did they think was going to be the benefit of this? Saving tens of megabytes?

  83. History majors by Webmoth · · Score: 2

    Maybe that B.A. in History isn't such a bad degree to have after all. Now all you need to do is convince corporations they need to have a history department to manage all of their documentation in such a way that it is discoverable and accessible.

    One of my favorite lines is, "Your data is secure. We just can't access it." In other words, if you are going to use a particular medium as an archive, you need to ensure that the data can be read from that medium, in perpetuity. If the technology is in danger of becoming obsolete, the archived data must be moved forward to new media.

    Of course, that isn't enough. The data must be indexed in such a way that the information you need can be found. Finding a needle in a haystack is easy with modern technology; finding a hand-drawn flow chart explaining how a particular "black box" in your manufacturing plant converts X to Y (and why it's painted blue) among hundreds of thousands of pages of poorly indexed documentation is exceedingly difficult.

    --
    Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
  84. The Gatekeepers of Wisdom by PPH · · Score: 1

    Lost or misplaced institutional knowledge can be leverage for those who know where it was misfiled. Its what keeps some otherwise unemployable people in their jobs.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  85. I helped clean up an office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I was hired to implement improvements and document them. I started writing about them, but my boss insisted that every procedure changed every time one particular application was run. He was an asshole, desperate to keep his job. I got no help from anyone further up. I put up with narcissism, micro-management, and idiocy for three years. Then, I helped clean up the office for about two months (cleaned up a lot of old stuff), and then left. They even ignored my very good advice about putting the system live to the internet. Less than two months after I left, they got hacked (and it wasn't even me). A few years later they were looking for someone to look after their system. Apparently they couldn't get anyone. No surprises why.

  86. Uncommented code, close escape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I recall interviewing long ago for a job maintaining a program with about 25,000 lines of uncommented code.
    Fortunately, I turned out not to be the best candidate for the job.

  87. Well, nerds can't document properly anyway. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Usually there's nothing but the highest level of design collateral left after the nerd doddles off to greener pastures after 6 months.

    The problem is with the nerds, not management. It's an ongoing fallacy that management is all to blame, it's fun to sneer at the managers. But the real problem is the incompetent, arrogant nerd who can't document anything, or even explain what he's spending all those hours doing, who knows he's moving on at the end of the project anyway.

    You have to whip, threaten, kick them to get anything down on paper. And when you ask them a simple question about how their shit works, they look at you like you're stupid and give you a dumb vague hand-waving answer. Assholes are completely up themselves and think the rest of the world is stooopid.

  88. Pump 6 by leighklotz · · Score: 2

    This reminds me of Pump 6, by Paolo Bacigalupi: "...it made me nervous thinking about all those maintenance warnings glowing down there in the dark: Mercury Extender Seal, Part #5970-34, Damaged, replace. Whatever the hell that meant."

    1. Re:Pump 6 by leighklotz · · Score: 2

      And "Like looking at Egyptian Hieroglyphs." Anonymous author of TFA should definitely read this.

  89. Claim that you rebuilt the docs... by David_Hart · · Score: 1

    ...from memory. Just make sure to create new files and copy and past the information into it. Create the documents in new formats (i.e. Word 2010, PDF, etc.) Otherwise you could get screwed by the creation and modified dates or old formats.

  90. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used to work for Cedars-Sinai hospital in Los Angeles in their IT department. They brought in a Document Management System, put people in charge who knew (and still know) little to nothing about document management to force everyone through the "ITG" process. ITG stands for nothing in particular - we've asked - and a department that started with 1 FTE and 1 contractor has grown to almost a dozen people.

    Nothing anyone ever puts into this system is ever really pulled and used - the programmers just go back to the code. In order to "follow the process" of peer review, testing, etc., you'd never hit a due date. So, right after all the code goes live, the developers and analysts play "ITG Ping-Pong" to push all the right buttons and in all the right order to catch up the tickets. It's all bullshit, but it's the CTO's sacred cow. Talk bad about it and you get put on his Cone of Silence shit-list, never to be considered for any promotion or perk. Ever.

    I remember putting all sorts of Easter Egg fillers - like quotes from Shakespeare, blog posts about my day, etc., in to the documentation for the 2 years I used it and never once was any of it found. Pretty sad, actually.

    They tried to use their DMS as a catch-all of all the knowledge the developers had, and nobody has yet to use it in any meaningful form or fashion. I am pretty sure the data being shoveled into that train wreck is just the same duplicated BS processes again and again and again...

  91. Dave Langford wrote about this, kinda by bsa3 · · Score: 2

    The Leaky Establishment, where the large engineering firm is the Atomic Weapons Establishment and the item to be smuggled back in is a physics package.

  92. Two stories... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Worked for one company as the Engineering Manager and couldn't figure out why the General Manager knew so much about the old projects - he kept coming up with long lost engineering documents. When we moved to a new building, we algamated 5 offices and I came across an old filing cabinet tucked away in a store room. It ended up to be the long lost engineering documents that the General Manager was hiding from us. I moved it to the engineering dept and the General Manager never said "boo" about it.Go figure that one out!

    In another company, I was the Sales Manager and got laid off. The president never even asked what was on the go and status of any projects. Then the president phones me up about 3 weeks after and asks for all my personal notes on the current sales and projects on the go. I told him, that I threw out all all of my personal records when I as let go because I don't work there any more. Was he pissed!

  93. I've been there by bhima · · Score: 2

    For my entire adult life I worked in the medical diagnostic device industry and somewhere in the late late 80's and electronic documentation & email really started to take over. Then following a series of lawsuits the corporate SOP began to change. We went from loose organization in directories to using versioning tools for documents. And we went from what was essentially unlimited email storage to smaller and smaller... eventually ending up in 2005 with mandated culling policies. (mostly as a proactive defensive legal strategy).

    By my nature, I am digital packrat. I still have all the email I have ever received or sent, in curated archives. I still have all the documents I have created. I still have all the code I have ever written. I still have all the design docs I have ever created. And I still have the knowledge management system I created to curate all of that data.

    So, my nature and corporate policy really began to conflict more and more strongly. For about 12 years I used my own hardware for backups with my management looking the other way. Eventually I was told the backup strategy had to go and to take all my stuff home. That was replaced by corporate supplied laptop which I routinely took home to backup.

    I took early retirement in 2009 and in late 2010 was asked back to resolve a thorny problem with some of the in-house equipment I had a hand designing. The current site manager, who I have a lot of disagreements with but is a nice guy, assessed the parts of my personal archive that I brought in with me as "The largest and most frightening example of industrial espionage he had ever seen"... and wanted to buy it from me so he could destroy it.

    --
    Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    1. Re:I've been there by WarlockD · · Score: 1

      You know I heard this one before. "I want to buy this off you so I could make sure I know what your destroying." Quote for Quote too. I guess its resonable, they can't just send lawyers at your because you will just say I destroyed it like the documentation said and its not like they can prove otherwise.

      But then, their real objective is to "save their asses" as they lost the stuff in the first place. They can justify the cost to as its cheaper than getting lawyers involved and even the lawyers might just want the data destroyed for legal reasons.. It makes me wonder if world peace can never be achieved without all party's saving face.

  94. I worked for this other guy who required 80-column by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 1

    comments that were formatted with aster ices in a certain specific way.

    a colleague discovered that the cause of a certain memory leak was an allocation with the c++ new operator without a corresponding delete. after receiving her proud email announcing her discovery, I filed a bug against her specific fix, then blasted thebentire company with a short angry written lecture about the critical importance of using smart pointers for c++ memory management.

    the company president ordered me to stop filing such bug reports. I resigned in protest not long after.

    Trihedral Engineering makes Human Machine Interface Software Control And Data Acquisition products.

    HMI SCADA software is some of the most human life critical software there is. our product was used to automate a pickup truck assembly plant in Kentucky. The Stuxnet worm that attacked the Iranian uranium centrifuges attacked the HMI SCADA product produced by our competitor Siemens.

    If you don't use smart pointers in c++ your code won't be exception-safe. if you don't use smart pointers in the c++ HMI SCADA code used to drive a giant automotive assembly plant, you will drop a pickup truck on one of your plant's workers, making a widow of his wife instantly.

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  95. Primo Levi by Cesare+Ferrari · · Score: 1

    I seem to remember Primo Levi wrote on this subject - not sure which of his books i've read, but something about a paint factory process springs to mind. Companies do loose information - it's entropy at work. It costs to keep information intact, and unfortunately there is much information and little indication of what may be important in the future.

  96. Re:that is why they need Technical writers / write by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

    to do the wiring part so that the tech people have time to do the tech work.

    Technical writers to do the wiring. Aha! That explains the electrical problems I've been having.

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  97. Obligatory xkcd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.xkcd.com/984/

  98. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by the+entropy · · Score: 1

    One other useful source of documentation is version control software. If used correctly that is(small commits that do one thing with a proper commit message). I recently joined a team working on a project that has been underway for quite a while and whenever I find myself wondering what a certain piece of code does or why it was written the answer is usually easy to obtain by going "svn blame [codefile]" then "svn log -r[version of last change]" as well as "svn diff -c [version of last change]" if I want to know what that commit did as a whole.

  99. Computer Systems Too by trydk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I used to work as a consultant for a very large, global computer manufacturer/consultancy as Solutions Architect. More than once I had to quickly find an available system to implement a customer's outsourcing solution as the normal lead time for a new system was 1 month+! (And before you start yelling "Virtual Servers", these customers required independent physical servers.)

    Sometimes I had to go through a list of servers on a specific subnet, match that up with a list of servers from the routine network scans to see if all were accounted for, if not, I would try to find the server in the server room, get its ID from the chassis, go back to the inventory system, try to find the server there and hopefully an owner too.

    Occasionally I could either not find the system in the inventory system or no owner was assigned. I would then have a private chat with the hardware people responsible for the area the servers were placed and suddenly the relevant servers would have an "unscheduled network outage", i.e. the operator would unplug the system and we would wait for somebody to start screaming. If that did not happen within a day or so, we would dump the system's data to the backup system and reassign the server. This time properly documented.

  100. Re:Outside of the code, all documentation is worth by dintech · · Score: 1

    These documents are then stored on the LAN. To never, or rarely ever, be read again.

    These systems almost always exist as a due diligence cover my ass exercise for upper management. Mistakes are inevitable as you very astutely point out, however you didn't document that it might be a possibility. Management is covered because they signed off on only what you documented. The mistake is yours and yours alone, you get marked down on your year end review, management is unscathed and everything continues as normal.

  101. Ah but RICH thieves by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    If people are going to think badly of you, you might as well be doing it while sitting on what used to their money.

    Nobody likes a poor thief.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  102. Documentation causes two negatives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1.) Additional project costs.
    2.) Liability -- Proof of a faulty idea or process.

    What company wants that?

  103. Real teamwork fix this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At the company I work for there are two types of teams. The most common type is the lip-service team where a group of people are forced together and grudgingly share as little information as possible. Each person in this team has his or her area of expertise and think they will keep their jobs longer if they are the only ones to know what they know.

    The other type of team, the 'real' team, is one where people actually share their information with co-workers. In this team everyone eventually knows (or has access to) everyone's information. This type of team ensures the information is never lost. As far as people pushing each other out of positions, truth be told, most people just don't want to do each other's work. It's a win-win for the company.

    BTW, I have worked in a government position where the environment was so toxic to sharing information that anyone who trained anyone else on how to do their job would be 'layed off' within a month. Yeah, don't share the knowledge in that case.

    1. Re:Real teamwork fix this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the company I work for there are two types of teams. The most common type is the lip-service team where a group of people are forced together and grudgingly share as little information as possible. Each person in this team has his or her area of expertise and think they will keep their jobs longer if they are the only ones to know what they know............

      At the company I work for there are two types of teams. The most common type is the lip-service team where a group of people are forced together and grudgingly share as little information as possible. Each person in this team has his or her area of expertise and know that it will be harder to be fired and that they will keep their jobs longer if they are the only ones to know what they know............

      Fixed that for you (phew)

  104. And it's been going on a long time by keysdisease · · Score: 1

    My girlfriend was moved from another group into Cambridge Systems when UCCEL bought them and SKK to keep track of engineering documentation, publications and whatnot through the transition. Six months later CA bought UCCEL and laid off everyone over their target salary range, which included her and lotsa senior engineers. Two weeks later she was back as a contractor at +100% pay bump because they couldn't find their pooper with their fingers. Took about 6 months to transition it to Long Island. But since CA still sells and supports ACF2 they must have retained enough to make a go of it.

  105. Punishment by granting their wishes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I left GD many years ago, there was no formal document archiving process. I conscientiously (hadn’t yet lost my soul back then) organized documentation for all my projects, including custom analytic code, telling my boss and everyone who might do something with it where to find it. A few years later, they called me and expected me to have copies of those things they had lost, many despite having security classifications. (Some of what they asked me for was actually Top Secret!) They were astounded when I told them I hadn’t taken anything with me.

    When I left LM a few years ago I was told to get with a clueless suit and go through my files giving him copies of what he wanted. What he wanted proved to be totally pointless dross. All else was to be wiped per corporate policies. I did as requested, not daring to interfere with whatever-the-Gods-that-be's clear plan to punish evildoers by granting their wishes.

    One might note that many corporations have black-hole document retention policies for some documents. LM had a rigid (and enforced) corporate email destruction policy launched with great fanfare just after the Darleen Druyan scandal at Boeing erupted from retained emails. My guess is that tens of thousands of man-hours were lost because engineers had been using Outlook as a filing system.

  106. Sometimes people put part of their post content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in the title. That bothers me.