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The Rise and Fall of Kodak

H_Fisher writes "Michael Hiltzik of the L.A. Times writes with a frank look at the decisions and changes that have led to Kodak's decline from top U.S. photography company to a company whose product is almost irrelevant. He writes: '[Kodak] executives couldn't foresee a future in which film had no role in image capture at all, nor come to grips with the lower profit margins or faster competitive pace of high-tech industries.' He also notes that Kodak's story comes as a cautionary tale to giants like Google and Facebook."

44 of 352 comments (clear)

  1. Rochester by macsox · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wrote an article about the impact of Kodak on Rochester, New York, the city it built. Some interesting context about how technology built a city - twice.

    1. Re:Rochester by StopKoolaidPoliticsT · · Score: 4, Informative

      Kodak's decline obviously had an effect on Rochester, but the total ineptness of government combined with the people's failure to hold the government responsible had more to do with the fall of the city. Crazy spending, high taxes, race problems causing white flight starting in the 60s, anti-business regulations like the NET offices, one party government, an unaccountable school system, a police system that was so bad that Rochester because the murder capital of NY and required the State Troopers to work with local police to get minor crimes under control, etc.

      Business, not just Kodak, has fled Rochester and skilled workers need to follow the businesses to get jobs. Meanwhile, thanks to NY's lax and generous welfare policies, people are coming in to suck off the government's teat. The state itself is tone deaf since all that matters to the state is Albany and NYC. Of course, the fact that the incompetent police chief turned mayor that caused half the problems above got promoted to Lt Governor means that we'll chuck some more money on wasteful projects like his grand idea to buy and tear Midtown down to the tune of tens of mllions at taxpayer expense, only to turn it around to a business that never actually signed a contract to develop the land in the way he announced. Oh, and the property was in tax arrears and could have been foreclosed on, but why bother when he's not spending his own money to buy it?

      Kodak, while painful, has been the least of Rochester's problems... and today, it's almost irrelevant, save for the outdated, often abandoned, infrastructure they've left all over the city.

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    2. Re:Rochester by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Some interesting context about how technology built a city - twice.

      Not only technology, but a corporate culture from the ownership on down to management that could see past the next quarter.

      Too bad they couldn't see past the next innovation.

      Still, I'm unwilling to believe that it is impossible for a corporation to be profitable and provide a social benefit, despite all the current evidence to the contrary. I'll bet, based on no data, that if we look into the corporate history of Kodak, we'd see that they started to fail when they became too shortsighted to see either innovation or their responsibility to the community.

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    3. Re:Rochester by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ya want to know how they could have REALLY kicked some digital ass? they should have worked on a digital camera that outputs film style pictures. and they could have cleaned up! What I mean by that is the warm tones that something like Kodachrome put out. folks still like that warmth and would be happy to give up some resolution if they had a camera that could crank out digital pictures that looked like they were taken on Kodachrome. Sure you can tweak it afterwards in Photoshop, but how many people have the skills to do it?

      A camera where little Suzy the checkout girl could have all the convenience of digital with the softer warmer look of film would have frankly been a hit. Tie it in with a photoprinter that could crank the pics out and they could have backed up the money truck. But just like the *.A.A and piracy instead of adapting to the times and offering a better product they sat on their collective butts and let the world pass them by. Stupid move Kodak, really stupid.

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    4. Re:Rochester by StopKoolaidPoliticsT · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A lot of this comes down to Albany and NYC just not caring. Downstate dominates the state legislature and you have to go back decades to find a Governor that isn't from the NYC-Albany-Hudson Corridor area. The state has all kinds of crazy mandates that have strangled upstate - the Medicaid burden in particular is strangling most upstate counties since NY is the only state to mandate every one of the federal governments optional Medicaid supplements AND then passes the costs on to the counties. Downstaters don't care because as long as things were good for Wall Street, things were good for NYC and as long as things were good for NYC, they were good for Albany.

      In terms of the land, there's nowhere else I'd rather live... the Finger Lakes, Letchworth, a full four seasons, and the worst natural disasters tend to be snow or ice storms, which we're well equipped for. Politically and economically, the placve is a wasteland and the same solution - spend money on some grand government scheme like the Fast Ferry, Midtown or High Falls - is tried time and time again at great expense to the taxpayer. I mentioned Midtown below, for the outsiders that don't know, the taxpayers spent on the order of $80 million dollars to buy a building, tear it down and planned to give it to Paetec based on the premise that it would move a few hundred jobs a few miles from the suburbs downtown. We're blowing money to canabalize what is working here... oh, and the city never got a contract with Paetec, whom sold itself to Windstream this year anyway, and years later construction still hasn't started, so it was basically all for naught.

      And that's just Rochester, look west to Erie County and the corruption is even more profound. Then we get into the hundreds (over 800 IIRC) governemnt "authorities" which are a way for the government to appoint friends to high paying political positions and waste more money off the state's books even though the government is ultimately responsible for them. All of it has caused business to flee... manufacturing used to dominate urban western NY, along with agriculture in the rural areas, and most of it has left, many for better states, not even foreign countries. Rochester's biggest employer now is the University of Rochester and while businesses flee, we seem to grow non-profit special interest organizations and healthcare jobs (just not specialists since they can make better money elsewhere) like there's no tomorrow.

      And there's one other thing that keeps people here that should, under any rules of sanity, leave... their familes. That, ultimately, is why I've stayed. Lots of people, especially single people and/or young adults don't really care about moving away from their family, in fact, many of them relish it. But once you end up planting roots, it's hard to move away from the people that support you and that you support. The best thing that can happen is just admit that Upstate and Downstate have nothing in common, splitting the state into two states so that Upstate can operate free from the Downstate mandates and Downstate can stop whining about sending their tax money Upstate (yeah, lots of Upstaters think we send our money there, but the truth is it flows into here, just not at a high enough level to support the Downstate mandates).

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    5. Re:Rochester by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Pretty much dead on. They could easily have adapted and actually thrived on the digital photography market. Every stupid cell has a cam today, it's almost impossible that in any age there have been more pictures taken than today. The selling point could have been data retention times. Kodak pictures from 30+ years ago still look great. How well do your digital media age? What's the MTBF of consumer HDs? Of consumer DVD-Roms? Do you wanna risk your most precious moments or entrust them to a technology that has been proven to work and retain your pictures for at the very least half a century... and counting.

      You think people wouldn't have paid even MORE money for their photos? I bet they would have. What's the price tag of the baby pictures of your kids?

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    6. Re:Rochester by StopKoolaidPoliticsT · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The city itself now owns Midtown Plaza, but they plan to give portions of the land away to companies in exchange for moving downtown (cannibalizing the suburbs). IIRC, one of the local mall developers had owned the property before that and was more than a million dollars behind in tax payments, but the city chose to pay them $10 million for the building. The local mall developers are also active in local government (though I don't remember if this particular one was).

      The mayor prior to this one didn't actually live in Rochester, he lives in Batavia but owns property in Rochester. During the development of one of the sports stadiums built during his term, he directed the stadium to be built on property he owned even though it wasn't the best overall fit for the stadium.

      For the most part, the local newspaper turned a blind eye to the behind the scenes shenanigans since they were very loud avocates of both projects. Not to mention the Fast Ferry, which lost $60 or $80 million over the course of 3 years. The paper also withheld publishing the fact that the city council had been told the ferry was going to fail and was a waste of money. Alas, the paper is VERY beholden to the government and its executives often serve on local community advocacy type panels, further clouding its supposed independence. The local tv and radio news personnel have been gutted over the last decade, so they don't really have the manpower to do much actual investigating themselves.

      The city government is controlled by one party and the county government by another. There's a lot of animosity between the two which trickles right down to the residents. You know the typical stereotypes... the reality of the situation doesn't matter. On top of that, the city desperately wants to merge with the county, effectively taking over the county government, so the city can bleed the county to fill the coffers that have long been drained at further expense to the suburbs. The whole thing is a giant mess, partisanship reigns supreme and all that matters is the dogma, because nothing else gets published in this area and few on either side bother hear the other side's dogma.

      You could argue that, since George Eastman's suicide, the city has suffered the exact same fate his corporation has... and for largely the same reasons. Complete and utter mismanagement based on a total misunderstanding of what is happening on the ground, no ability to realistically plan for the long term and the desire for the brass to aggrandize themselves in the short term.

      --
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  2. There's nothing new here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Companies already know what happens when you don't continue to innovate. The book:The Innovator's Dilemma: The Revolutionary Book that Will Change the Way You Do Business goes into great detail and is basic reading at most business schools.

    1. Re:There's nothing new here by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The ironic thing is that Kodak pretty much invented digital photography long before it was practical to implement as a consumer product. They probably had the closest thing to genuinely inventive patents. Although it would have been a tragedy if they were able to set back the industry like Apple wants to.

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    2. Re:There's nothing new here by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hind sight is 20/20. There are also companies that died because they adopted a new fad technology. And lost too much money that they went out of business and should have stuck with their old model.

      For example Saturn cars (yes it was oned by GM) but they got popular on the small car with little frills. Then when gas prices were at a low they jumped ship and started making SUV and sport cars. And hitting the quality on their small car line.
      Gas prices rose. Saturn lost because it didn't have cars the people wanted.

      Jump on the wrong fad you get hurt too. It is easy to mock Kodak but the digital camera faze may have ended with some software just not easy enough to share photos. Or broad band was just too expensive for the market. Or color printers prices remained high price and offered infeaor pictures.

      Will the iPad and touch tablets stay popular. Or will windows 8 on multitouch laptops take the cheese.
      A lot of companies are investing in getting the newest tablet to trump apples IPad, but what if tablets just reach their peak the holiday season then die down?
      Do we skoff at the people who blindly jumped on the tablet fad? Even though right now it seems the hot new tech?

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    3. Re:There's nothing new here by Gr8Apes · · Score: 5, Informative

      while it's true that jumping on a bad fad could bankrupt you, only an idiot would have continued to believe that digital wasn't going to succeed. The prices for digital cameras was low enough that instamatics just couldn't compete, on original price alone. Granted, the early digital cameras pictures sucked in quality, but knowing the speed of new tech improving that was solely limited by manufacturing process would quickly let you guess about when the image quality would be close to film. Moore's law and all - it was only a couple of years after the initial 1-2 MP cameras came out that the 3 and 5 MPs came out, and 5MP was good enough for a pocket camera to rival the print of a cheap 35mm camera, and that's pretty much the beginning of the real end for film. Digital didn't add on the processing costs for film, you could take 100 pictures, "process" them on the spot, and take another 100, pretty much for "free". The best film could do was 1 hour processing at a relatively high cost, and 36 max pics per roll. (I can take over 1000 in RAW mode on my current DSLR and the way oversized Compact Flash card I have)

      As for tablets, I think the market will continue to grow. There's a distinct use case for tablets, and it more than meets the needs for a large majority of the populace. Think all the current phone texters that make do with 140 characters or less thumb typing on a screen keyboard far too small for their fingers being able to enjoy much larger real estate of the tablet.

      The real issue with the tablet "fad" is a bunch of companies that think throwing some hardware together in a roughly tablet sized package is sufficient keep failing, and they'll continue to fail. It's more than just hardware, if they want to even enter the edge of the iPad market.

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    4. Re:There's nothing new here by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      (I can take over 1000 in RAW mode on my current DSLR and the way oversized Compact Flash card I have)

      Sure, now but you're not winning any points for predicting this in 2011. I remember having a 512 MB card that could fit about 100 pictures, and for a weekend trip that was barely enough. Those before that sucked even worse. I remember thinking with a film I could at least just snap in another film and keep taking pictures, it wasn't anything like "snap as many pictures as you'd like" unless you felt like going through them on the tiny little LCD monitor on the camera. And it was very expensive. It's easy to say it afterwards but I don't think it was nearly as obvious back then. And when it was obvious, maybe they felt they were too late to the party.

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    5. Re:There's nothing new here by Steve+Max · · Score: 4, Informative

      Floppies?! The first digital camera I had (a Kodak DC20) had a megabyte of fixed storage, and that was it! We could fit 8 493x373 pics, or 16 320x240 ones! No fancy flash or LCD, either! The only way to get the pictures out of it was through a slow, serial cable at ~50 kbps! At the time, we WISHED we could use big, fast, portable floppies!
      Now, kids, get off my lawn!!

  3. Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either. by Kenja · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Kodaks whole business was founded on film development. The whole idea was that they sell the cameras cheap and charge for the development. Was that way going back to the glass plate days. Simply put, they where rendered irrelevant by digital photography which is the exact oposite market. Expensive cameras, free "film". While its sad to see them go, they are more or less a lost cause now.

    --

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  4. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by bigredradio · · Score: 4, Insightful

    more or less a lost cause now

    I would say less. If they were able to cut their expenses to the bone, then take on additional funding to create innovative imaging products, then they would have a shot. Their brand recognition is still worth a lot. There are a lot of people over 30 who will have some trust in new Kodak products.

    Unfortunately, they have tried to create products by copying the status quo. They should raid developers and designers from Apple and try a fresh start.

  5. Next, paper. by Animats · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The paper industry is feeling the pinch, too. Newspapers are dying, and paper mills are closing. The latest generation of computer users feels little desire to print anything. The paper industry had a "put it on paper" promotion. That seems to have disappeared.

    Paper requires an infrastructure. In business, paper implies filing, filing cabinets, folders, record storage, file clerks, trash cans, shredders, staplers, paper clips, paper recycling, and other cost items. This not only increases cost, it increases head count and makes outsourcing and offshoring harder.

    Printed forms are really expensive. Someone has to fill them out, they have to be moved around, sorted, and filed. and probably entered into into a computer at some point. It's been a long time since a forms manufacturer could advertise "the world is run on tracks of printed paper".

    There are still many businesses with a lot of legacy paper, but the trend is down.

    1. Re:Next, paper. by zdammit · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I hear paper mail and its infrastructure is in decline too, but many slashdotters wailed about a country needing a national paper mail pushing system. But reality means cuts will further erode revenue in a negative feedback spiral. USPS is going down, hard

      Really? In my country the decline in letters has been compensated for by an increase in packages, from online sales. So the postal system is changing but not declining.

    2. Re:Next, paper. by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe the private carriers are better for large businesses or something?

      UPS offers some services that the US Post Office can't touch - like handling all of your shipping logistics. It's been a while, but 5 or 6 years ago you could have them store your goods (e.g. spare parts) in their warehouses all over the country so that when a local need came up the delivery would be faster and cheaper than if you held them in a single location.

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  6. It was all by shentino · · Score: 4, Funny

    One big Kodak moment.

  7. Why just cautionary for Google and Facebook? by the_humeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's lesson for all businesses: adapt or become irrelevant. Look at IBM. They used to make tabulating machines. Now they make most of their money selling services. Some industries change at a glacial pace (e.g. oil, cement, Christmas trees) so companies entrenched here can take their time adapting to new realities whereas other industries change pace almost daily (e.g. fashion), so companies in these industries also need to adapt very quickly (e.g. Coach, LV, etc.).

    1. Re:Why just cautionary for Google and Facebook? by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Insightful

      of course, IBM services are all about unnecessarily complex projects that are time and money sink holes. With the economy tightening up, we can only hope enough businesses see through these scams to make IBM irrelevant and out of that business.

    2. Re:Why just cautionary for Google and Facebook? by Gothmolly · · Score: 3, Funny

      Mod parent up. If you're not part of the solution, there's money to be made in prolonging the problem.

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    3. Re:Why just cautionary for Google and Facebook? by nwf · · Score: 4, Interesting

      IBM's market cap has bounced back. Surprisingly they're worth more than Microsoft again. Companies to look at for "Failure to adapt" might include RIM, Nokia, HP.

      And Microsoft. They've been running on the same two products since their heyday. Their only real innovation (a graphical office suite) was developed for the Macintosh. Everything is "me too" crap, which worked for a while.

      Apple is a good example of a company that was near death and transformed itself like Kodak will never be able to do. Then there are transformations like Westinghouse that went from dong just about everything to selling their name to the highest bidder to make crappy TVs.

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    4. Re:Why just cautionary for Google and Facebook? by stewartjm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Then there's the oil industry and how they purchased the patent to NiMH batteries and won't let them be used in electric cars.

      Not to say that the patent owner hasn't been a pain to deal with. But, the Toyota Prius uses NiMH batteries. They're far from the best batteries for storage/weight ratio. But once you factor in operational lifetime, they're about as good as it gets at the moment.

  8. Obviously feeding a troll, but... by Junta · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I want to say I enjoy slashdot as one of the few sites actually implementing a nice and full threaded discussion system. We aren't talking about obsolescence, but rather a preference. Too many discussion systems either reorder posts, support no or one level of reply, and other such silly limitations.

    Aside from that, the quality of commentators tends to be higher. More often than not, someone related to or very keenly aware of the subject of a story chimes in with additional data whereas most other forums explode in a barrage of inane chatter, trolls and woefully misinformed people. Yes, slashdot is subjected to that as well *but* if we are grading on a curve here, slashdot's community comes out pretty good.

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    1. Re:Obviously feeding a troll, but... by Miseph · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The only news site I visit with consistently higher-quality user posts is The Economist's. There are one or two others that are often comparable, but the quality here is really quite high. Considering that this is the only site I place in that tier that lacks aggressive professional moderation empowered to delete posts (and routinely doing so), that is an extremely impressive feat.

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  9. Re:A cautionary tale indeed by Junta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They already 'learned' a lesson:
    New technology *will* destroy your business model, so destroy the technology while you still have power!

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  10. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by Kenja · · Score: 4, Informative

    I wouldn't be shocked if a company like Pentax (who has good digital products but limited consumer name recognition) to buy the Kodak name for use in a new low end consumer product line.

    But Kodak is still trying to cling to the film business. Their new products are things like a digital camera with a built in printer, sort of a hybrid version of their older instant cameras. People just dont seem interested.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  11. Photogs? by QuasiSteve · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder what part 'photogs' (why can't they call themselves photographers? weird.) played in this.

    You know the ones, that - even as recent as 2 years ago - still claimed digital was crap, film was here to stay as a vastly superior medium, that no professional would ever adopt digital, etc. etc. etc. The very same people Kodak probably had intimate relationships with from marketing through research.

    Not laying blame, just saying.. perhaps Kodak laid too much importance on their opinions, trusting them to be 'right' as they had been for decades earlier.

    1. Re:Photogs? by Average_Joe_Sixpack · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Kodak committed suicide in the mid 90s when management spun off Eastman Chemical, pharmaceutical and medical divisions. Management received nice bonuses though.

    2. Re:Photogs? by Sarten-X · · Score: 5, Interesting

      From my perspective, they played very little part. The signs of digital's dominance have been around for a decade, at least..

      Real, trained, professional photographers adopted digital photography as early as 2000. It meant they could take hundreds of pictures of an event, with practically no overhead cost. An assistant could pick out the few not-terrible shots, and they would be sent to the traditional lab (or a minilab) for printing.

      The first megapixel cameras were still slower than film cameras, so a good photographer going to an event (such as a wedding) would have a digital camera on hand for routine use (like taking pictures of the bridal party, preparations, and decorations), but still keep a film camera loaded and ready for moments of action (like exchanging rings), hoping for that perfect shot when something spectacular happens (like when the groom goes diving for the falling ring).

      Photography (when done well) is a fast-paced and high-risk business. If a wedding photographer misses some special moment because they were reloading a camera, they can and do get sued. When digital became even remotely practical (several thousand dollars for a 2-megapixel DSLR), professionals jumped at the opportunity.

      That improvement didn't come without its own problems, though. Many labs couldn't handle the differences in workflows, and that drove up their prices. Now, lab prices aren't very high compared to photographers' rates (about $10 for an 8x10 with finishing coat and manual retouching (which will be the comparison henceforth), compared to the $20-$50 that the photographer will likely charge), but the lack of integration also meant that orders often were lost, delayed, or damaged, and storing several gigabytes of pictures (at $10/GB) for each event was impractical for a small studio. As workflows, cameras, and hard disks improved, film became less important as a fallback, and digital was very clearly the future.

      The next major change came in minilabs. I've mentioned them in passing already, but they deserve more discussion. As also mentioned, a full professional lab could produce an 8x10 for $10. That involves having several people preparing the film (or disk), moving it between chemical processors (or workstations), darkrooms, and printers, sitting at desks painting the white spots where dust prevented the paper from being exposed, spraying the print with any of several finishes, and eventually packaging the whole thing for shipping. A professional lab could easily fill a 30,000 square foot building. A minilab does the same job in a 60 cubic foot space. It's what you'll see in the back of a Wal-mart or pharmacy photo department now, but back in 2000 their quality was still catching up to the full capabilities of a professional lab. It cost about $0.65 for that same 8x10.

      The "photogs" I see now are working in a different sort of industry. Sure, they can press a shutter button and arrange a decent shot, but I often question their ability to anticipate the "Kodak moments" than make photo albums entertaining. Many will take pictures, and provide the digital copies, but don't understand how artistic retouching and finishes can improve an effect. Sure, there's a lot of 'em, but I don't see them as being major players in the professional supply industry. There's enough "real" photographers out there that trends are still obvious.

      For comparison, consider the differences between the bona fide audio engineering industry (where digital mixers and cheap-but-unique equipment reigns supreme, and professionals can artistically combine processors to achieve a particular desired sound) and the audiophile-supply industry (where noisy analog processors, vinyl, and high-purity copper digital cables are believed to sound "better" by being highly distorted).

      Source: I used to work for a lab that was one of the first to integrate a complete digital ordering system (including a minilab, ironically) into their workflow. Said lab was eventually driven out of business in 2007 as minilab quality and prices drastically cut down the number of customers.

      --
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  12. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by stuckinarut · · Score: 3, Informative

    A few excerpts from Kodak develops: A film giant's self-reinvention (Feb 2010) seem to suggest they just couldn't transition fast enough rather than became irrelevant.

    ... every Oscar winner for Best Motion Picture in the past 81 years has used Kodak film... 65 percent of Kodak's business now comes from business-to-business products and 70 percent of them are digital. Hayzlett's message is simple: every aspect of Kodak's business has been reinvigorated by winds of change.

    The usual explanation is that Kodak failed to see the approach of digital.

    In fact, Kodak was more than ahead of its competitors: it invented the digital camera -- even though it lacked the foresight to exploit it.

  13. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by Guspaz · · Score: 5, Informative

    No, they didn't make the first DSLR 20 years ago. What they did was basically sell an add-on that attached to your Nikon SLR to make it digital. Kodak never made any DSLRs themselves; they were always digital backs, or based on Canon or Nikon bodies, or sometimes just rebranded Canons or Nikons.

    There's a huge market for camera components. Film is dead (at least for stills, film is slowly moving that way), but the DSLR market is alive and well, and companies like Sony are making a fortune selling camera modules to go into the iPhone and other devices.

    Kodak could have been selling millions of mobile camera modules, or competing with Nikon and Canon for the high-end, but they're not.

  14. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by Kenja · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And ironically Kodaks business plan of sell the camera for cost and over charge for the film is alive and well in the printer/ink business.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  15. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I find it interesting that the Kodak name plus their patent portfolio, only nets a $300M market cap. They must have a lot of liabilities to drag them down that low.

  16. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by Endo13 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't think so.

    The problem for Kodak is that photography is more and more stratifying itself into two major categories:

    1. High-quality digital camers
    2. Cell phone cameras

    Kodak built its business on cheap cameras that anyone could afford, and, of course, the film. Cell phones are now increasingly replacing Kodak's old niche in the photography world, and they've never really been known for expensive high-quality equipment. Going electronic & digital was simply not enough, they would need to break into an entirely new market or product type to stay alive.

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  17. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by fermion · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I am not sure about the expectation that a corporation should exist forever, or that shrinkage and eventual folding is bad. Really it is this idea that a firm should be forever, and all the effort to make it happen, that creates inefficiencies in the free market.

    Kodak provided a good product, and it innovated both in the pro and consumer market. The stuff it did really brought photography to the masses, and high end photography to the pros. The cameras allowed us to take pictures. The film allowed us to accurately reproduce those pictures. The technology was not trivial.

    The think is that it is simply not cost effective to do a good job printing pictures that can just be reprinted. Archival for the family is no longer an issue. So the quality that Kodak represented is no longer needed. Which means lower markup and therefore an inability to pay for the bloated management that all corporation build up over time. This is why we need firms to go under, fire all the management, and sell all the assets. It frees up managers that are good to start more efficient ventures, and allows inefficient managers to no longer be a drag on the system. With the current idea that corporations are imortal, we have manager vampires feeding off the workers and consumers without providing any real value.

    So is there a lesson here. Yes, to the inefficient manager, be ready to be thrown out into the street. Which won't happen, as there will always be banks and courts that perpetuate the efficiency of aristocratic class. Kodak can go. They represent and inefficient past. Not buggy inefficient, but perhaps heating stove inefficient.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  18. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by Entropius · · Score: 4, Informative

    They had an angle into that market; they made CCD's for high-end digital SLR's for a long time. I know they sold sensors to Olympus, among others, for years. Olympus wound up switching to Panasonic as a sensor supplier for technical reasons related to video capture, but lots of folks still swear by the old Kodak sensor cameras.

  19. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by Guspaz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Right, but at that point they should have been making their own cameras instead of just the sensor. They had a lock on the entire camera market at one point, but for some reason it seems that they never actually made their own digital cameras, just rebranded or added on to other companies'.

    The make-your-own-camera-module thing became more important as cellphones started getting cameras integrated (even when they were crap, a lot of phones had them, and there was money there even then). It wasn't (and isn't) realistic for Kodak to have made their own cellphone, but they could have gotten a chunk of the camera module market. At this point, that's probably even a much bigger market than the rest of the camera market combined; every cellphone, tablet, handheld game console sold, they all have camera modules, and Kodak isn't the one making them. Sony makes a lot of them, even for their competitors. And I've no idea who makes the camera modules in the 3DS, but it's got *THREE* of the things. More and more cellphones these days have at least two cameras...

  20. One bad decision by snsh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The VP of research at EK told us a story that back in the 1970's, Kodak had a billion dollars in the bank to invent. They had to choose between instant photography and digital imaging.

    Kodak chose instant photography. I think they ended up spending another billions dollars on lawyers and on a settlement with Polaroid. In the meanwhile, Kodak cancelled a large part of its digital imaging program, after already bringing the world's first consumer camcorder to market.

  21. Re:Pentax already got bought out by Sique · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Kodak is pretty much a north american name. In Europe, if anyone thinks about cameras, it's not really Kodak, that comes to mind.

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    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  22. Re:Horse and buggy companies didn't make it either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not only did they make CCDs for high-end digital SLRs, but they sold high-end digital SLRs in partnership with Nikon and Canon early in the switch to digital cameras in the 1990s. Kodak was a genuine innovator, and for a while these Kodak/Nikon cameras were THE camera that journalists used world-wide. The cameras weren't cheap ($10k+), but they were the first cameras that could legitimately be called a replacement for film, rather than the simple cameras with pathetic 640x480 resolution that were available for general consumer use for a few hundreds of dollars. These "professional" models were cameras that had high resolution (thousands of pixels by thousands of pixels), a camera with good optics, and battery life that lasted a day of shooting. They were bulky but functional. This was in the days when it was a novelty to shoot digital, upload the photo to a wire service via satellite, and have the photo sitting in the newsroom within hours of an event in a remote location somewhere in the world rather than days later via film. Now it's routine. It was obvious that as the technology improved and prices came down into the range that ordinary people could afford, this was the way things would eventually go.

    The point is, Kodak wasn't backwards. They were THERE at the forefront of digital photography, they should have been very aware of what was coming, and they blew it. The camera manufacturers basically outsourced their CCD manufacturing elsewhere and then it was game over.

  23. Good article on a sad subject by cvtan · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The article is 99% correct. Having worked at Kodak for 26 years in a non-film technical capacity, I can still remember when even digital products had the main goal of getting people to use more film. Sometimes I felt that all our early work in digital imaging was solely to prove how good film was in comparison.
    Kodak's main thrust was overall image quality and print quality, but look what has happened. People use crappy cell phone cameras for most things and hardly print anything.
    Telling example of arrogant thinking: When the disc film camera system was introduced, there was a big presentation in the Kodak auditorium explaining in gory detail why it was so wonderful. The lens was a miracle of optical engineering. It was an impressive display of whiz-bang charts and 3D graphs of the photographic space etc. Only problem was you could not take a good photo with a disc camera; all the pictures were uniformly mediocre. Kodak took years to develop the disc system and Fuji had a copy-cat camera for sale in 6 months. This from the company that invented video tape recording and decided "Nobody would want a VCR in their home." Similar logic was applied to ink-jet and thermal printing and to a lesser extent to image sensor micro-lens arrays.

    More recently, Kodak tried to sell image sensors into the cell phone market. Have any of you tried to sell anything to a cell phone company? We thought they would be impressed with the Kodak name, image quality and our proprietary image processing algorithms. They are so big they didn't care. Pricing is brutal. They want millions of parts on time or else! VGA devices are so cheap you can't make a profit. HD devices are low-volume so you can't make a profit. That leaves the middle ground of...nothing! We were earnest and naive.

    Ranting against the dumbness of big business is popular and there is certainly blame to be placed on a management that could not see into the future, relied on a high-profit fading technology and approved only boring products. I have no doubt that all the fantastically wealthy managers that have driven this once proud company into the ground will enjoy their retirement. The technical people I worked with were GREAT!

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    Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
  24. Re:But buggy making jobs were replaced by JoeMerchant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Read up for how societies are affected when an industry leaves for one reason or another and is not replaced. Rochester, Detroit. These are not happy stories.

    This is not about brand names, this is about the erosion of full-time, life-time employment being replaced by temporary work at minimum wages for less then full weeks.

    And that matters.

    Arguably, the problems in Detroit and Rochester are less painful than the problems in 1940s Europe that allowed Detroit and Rochester industry to flourish for the last 60 years.