Chinese Government Ramps Up Weather Control Efforts

formaggio writes "China's government is intervening with nature by rolling out four regional programs to artificially increase precipitation across the country by 10 percent before 2015. The program is anticipated to bring in an additional 230 billion cubic meters of precipitation per year by 2015. This is on top of the 50 billion cubic meters of precipitation China already artificially creates annually in the northeastern province of Jilin."

Comments

soory

[masternerdguy]

Sorry commies, but only the Allies can have the weather control device. Go play with your nuke and iron curtain.

Re:soory

[cyachallenge]

Silly Command and Conquer Red Alert references.

Re:soory

[ackthpt]

Sorry commies, but only the Allies can have the weather control device. Go play with your nuke and iron curtain.

Don't be too harsh, they may end up with Oobleck and a valuable lesson they'll have learned!

Re:soory

[Anonymous Coward]

'Technology Stolen', 'New Construction Options'

Re:soory

[Amouth]

wasn't it "structure captured, new construction options"?

Re:soory

[mrozone]

You seem to forget that they captured our construction yard a while back.

Re:soory

[spyder-implee]

If you use a spy, tech stolen. If you use an engineer, structure cap'd.

Re:soory

[Amouth]

forgot about the spy - only ever used them to attack radar domes .. also i was always paranoid and surrounded my radar domes with sandbags so the other people at the lan couldn't do the same..

Evaporation

[LoudMusic]

Are they also creating an evaporation effect in the region that supplies air moisture to the region they're trying to create precipitation in?

Re:Evaporation

[v1]

They are stealing our water!

That's what I was wondering, where would this water normally be falling mostly? Russia? Japan? Pacific Ocean? If it was just headed for the ocean anyway, it doesn't appear to be selfish of them.

Re:Evaporation

[jpmorgan]

Well, if you think about the Langmuir equation, decreasing the partial pressure of water vapour in the atmosphere by inducing precipitation will increase the evaporation rate. Then it's just a matter of prevailing winds which, assuming the Chinese aren't complete idiots, they've probably thought about.

Re:Evaporation

[hedwards]

Just as long as they leave our precious bodily fluids alone, I say what's the harm?

Re:Evaporation

[v1]

inducing precipitation will increase the evaporation rate.

so in layman's terms, not only will they be causing less rain to fall downwind of you, but they'll also be causing more water to evaporate downwind - lowering humidity and making the problem of less-rainfall more severe. (assuming it's over land and not ocean anyway)

Re:Evaporation

[msauve]

"If it was just headed for the ocean anyway, it doesn't appear to be selfish of them."

If that's the case, they're spinning it wrong. They should be claiming they're trying to offset ocean level rise due to AGW.

Re:Evaporation

[Fluffeh]

Nope, just makign clouds that are already there precipitate. They are stealing our water!

Actually, there are a number of countries that are actually saying exactly that - "You are stealing our rain and it isn't a joke.

An interesting thing though, is that the Chinese mainly use Silver Iodide Rockets to seed the clouds. Silver Iodide is considered a hazardous substance, a priority pollutant, and a toxic pollutant by the US. Exposure can result in the following:

Chronic ingestion of iodides may produce “iodism”, which may be manifested by skin rash, running nose, headache, irritation of the mucous membranes, weakness, anemia, loss of weight and general depression. Chronic inhalation, ingestion or skin contact with silver compounds may cause argyria characterized by blue-gray discoloration of the eyes, skin and mucous membranes.

Will be interesting to see what happens during the next ten to fifteen years after this has been in place for long enough to really get into the soil, the food chain and the poor saps who this rain falls on.

Re:Evaporation

[Dyinobal]

Might explain the drought in Texas, or maybe that is because we elected Rick Perry. Though the fact he prayed for rain and we got wild fires instead might be considered evidence towards that theory.

Re:Evaporation

[magarity]

An interesting thing though, is that the Chinese mainly use Silver Iodide Rockets to seed the clouds. Silver Iodide is considered a hazardous substance, a priority pollutant, and a toxic pollutant

...Will be interesting to see what happens during the next ten to fifteen years after this has been in place for long enough to really get into the soil, the food chain and the poor saps who this rain falls on.

Hah, a little silver iodide added to the water supply might make it better by displacing some of the serious industrial contaminants they already put in it. You haven't been paying attention to the environmental news out of China if you think these rockets are a serious health concern.

Re:Evaporation

[spagthorpe]

I would guess a main reason for the additional rainfall would be food production, and since China seems to export quite a bit of it to us (heavy metals and all), I imagine it'll be our problem as much as theirs.

Re:Evaporation

[TubeSteak]

so in layman's terms, not only will they be causing less rain to fall downwind of you,

Other than Japan, there's nothing downwind of China until you hit the California coast.
Which isn't to say that China has no effect on California.
They have to deal with pollution and dust from China often enough for it to have been studied in some detail.

Re:Evaporation

[Praeses]

Many of their power plants are indirectly evaporating water. I am curious to see how the quantities compare.

Re:Evaporation

[lightknight]

Perhaps dust particles of sufficient size might suffice?

I am tempted to say something common, like carbon, might be worthy of consideration. Of course, it would require some research, but might be worth it.

Re:Evaporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Since when did Iodine = Silver Iodide??????

Re:Evaporation

[daem0n1x]

They're already pumping carbon particles into the atmosphere. I mean, a huge shitload of them.

Re:Evaporation

[C0R1D4N]

Clearly this could be stopped by killing all the butterflies in China.

Re:Evaporation

[Ihmhi]

This was a plot in, of all things, a Japanese anime - specifically, One Piece.

Despite the rain [that Dance Powder] creates however, the powder unfortunately caused long periods of drought to other countries. The process in which the artificial rain is created, nurtures clouds that aren't ready to rain yet. When this happens, all of the water contained within these clouds would all be used up. Because of this, other countries and locations, who would naturally benefit from rainfall when these clouds would naturally mature, are greatly deprived.

The controversy that this powder brought whenever it was used, started a war. The lives lost in this war was so great that the World Government outlawed the manufacturing and possession of Dance Powder world wide.

Link to article

Re:Evaporation

[Thing 1]

Just as long as they leave our precious bodily fluids alone, I say what's the harm?

Well, somewhat goofily: your current bodily fluids are yesterday's weather. So, no, they're not doing that.

Re:Evaporation

[cmholm]

Points for Dr. Strangelove reference.

Re:Evaporation

[FangVT]

Just as long as they leave our precious bodily fluids alone, I say what's the harm?

Purity of essence is the most important thing.

Re:Evaporation

[fotbr]

And your current bodily fluids are also tomorrow's weather...so they're messing with both the past and the future!

Re:Evaporation

[Mal-2]

Will be interesting to see what happens during the next ten to fifteen years after this has been in place for long enough to really get into the soil, the food chain and the poor saps who this rain falls on.

Direct health effects aside, they are salting their fields. This problem will take care of itself, sooner or later, one way or another. It just won't be very pretty when it does.

Re:Evaporation

[Anonymous Coward]

Direct health effects aside, they are salting their fields. This problem will take care of itself, sooner or later, one way or another. It just won't be very pretty when it does.

Actually, iodine deficiency is a problem in most inland parts of the world where natural iodine in the soils has been washed out over the millenia - there is no natural recharge mechanism except perhaps volcanism. Look up goiter and cretinism. Growing up in Australia, most of my life I've only seen iodised salt used. But with the trendy tendency to use "gourmet sea salts" in cooking (quite absurd as all of our common table salt is from our relatively pristine seas dried in our unpolluted environment), iodine deficiency is becoming an increasing problem.

Re:Evaporation

[zazzel]

Will be interesting to see what happens during the next ten to fifteen years after this has been in place for long enough to really get into the soil, the food chain and the poor saps who this rain falls on.

Are they going to use the extra precipitation for agriculture - and export the goods to other countries?

Re:Evaporation

[MaWeiTao]

There's Korea, Taiwan and the Philippines. Given that South Korea, Taiwan and Japan all have amongst the largest economies in the world and massively dense populations I'd say that what China is doing is very important. They already have to deal with dust storms blowing over from the ever expanding Gobi desert.

Re:Evaporation

[jbeaupre]

Because both the iodine added to table salt (KCl for Mortons) and silver iodide (AgCl) are ionic compounds. When ingested, the body sees both sources of iodine as identical.

So in the context of iodine effects on the body, they've been the same for about 100 years now.

Re:Evaporation

[dainbug]

After watching Gov Perry's debating performances, Its clear his prays are so disjointed, inarticulate, pandering and down right silly that any Cloud-dwelling-Super-Being would be forced to curse his state with wildfires.

Re:Evaporation

[PGGreens]

But, I only drink rainwater and pure grain alcohol. By taking all the rain water, the Chinese are trying to force me to drink fluoridated tap water!

Re:Evaporation

[aceboomblain]

Killing all the butterflies in China will just stop some tropical storms in the Western Hemisphere. We need to get all the good ole Texas butterflies to flap there wings in unison, creating one large super hurricane in China.

Re:Evaporation

[snadrus]

What butterflies! Have you seen our record drought? Wait a minute....

Re:Evaporation

[jbeaupre]

Doh! I meant KI and AgI. Oh well. Must be all that fluoride in the water.

I have to ask...

[hipp5]

but what could go wrong!?

Re:I have to ask...

[Trepidity]

I suppose the first question to ask would be where the moisture would've fallen otherwise. Unless they're creating new evaporation/condensation into clouds, which it doesn't sound like since they're discussing seeding rockets, they're just causing it to fall somewhere instead of somewhere else. Maybe that harms somewhere else, or maybe it doesn't; would need more information to say.

They appear not to get this, or not want to acknowledge it, though, with the quote: "Because clouds are boundless, weather control is boundless". Clouds might be boundless if you're doing isolated cloud-seeding operations, but on a massive industrial scale, clouds aren't really boundless...

Re:I have to ask...

[RandomAvatar]

Well, besides not know who or what Amurikka is, I would have to say it is more a "fucking with nature on a large scale" intervening with nature than the fact that China is the one doing it purposely. I personally think that we should try to limit what we do to the environment... At least until we find another one we can inhabit.

Re:I have to ask...

[roc97007]

Um, no offense, but that seems to be really reaching.

Re:I have to ask...

[DocHoncho]

And fat pimply ones no less. Hey, no arguing with taste.

STOP!! Do Not Continue

[MBC1977]

This reminds me of an Edding's book I read once, "Guardians of the West" where the lead character started playing around with the weather (to prove a point to some very inept thinking people). Several months later his grandfather comes to his castle, and virtually berates him for tampering with the "most powerful force in nature".

Somehow I think this very fitting considering (1) this is China we're talking about and (2) anyone (including the US) who plays around weather is virtually certain to cause an adverse effect somewhere else. So please DO NOT TAMPER WITH THE WEATHER!!.

Thanks. :)

Re:STOP!! Do Not Continue

[Gr33nJ3ll0]

Somehow I think this very fitting considering (1) this is China we're talking about and (2) anyone (including the US) who plays around weather is virtually certain to cause an adverse effect somewhere else. So please DO NOT TAMPER WITH THE WEATHER!!.

From the article it seems they have already caused adverse effects, and yet they persist.

Re:STOP!! Do Not Continue

[blakecraw]

This reminds me of a Herbert book where the Guild wanted a prohibitive price for weather satellites.

Re:STOP!! Do Not Continue

[LordLucless]

If I remember correctly, the grandfather and one of his sorcerous pals spent a year or so preventing the main character's actions from triggering a new ice age.

Re:STOP!! Do Not Continue

[DocHoncho]

Cheers for the Eddings reference. Love it. If I hadn't already commented on this story you'd have my mod points.

Re:STOP!! Do Not Continue

[ormondotvos]

I can think of a dozen places easily where they'd love for you to tamper with the weather, intelligently. Texas, for starters.

Robbing Peter to Pay Paul

[jklovanc]

What about downwind areas where the water would fall naturally? Might that effect snow packs and cause drought during summer months?

Re:Robbing Peter to Pay Paul

[hedwards]

That's where they're trying to get the water to. Most of the areas where they're trying to get more water are pretty much as downwind as possible. I think the wind patterns there are generally west to east there, although I could be wrong.

Ultimately, the water gets into the ocean eventually, it's mostly a question of whether it's via run off or rain.

Re:Robbing Peter to Pay Paul

[ColdWetDog]

Maybe THIS is the cause of global warming? Sure looks like a smoking gun to me.

The only thing that is smoking is the joint you're holding on to. Time to put it down for a while.

When the rain falls here, it doesn't fall there

[CityZen]

I see international problems brewing with this...

I hear that in some localities, the rain water (that falls on your property) doesn't belong to you, and you're not legally allowed to have rain barrels.

Weather alteration will amplify issues like that, such that countries have to make treaties regarding who can claim which clouds.

Of course, you have to wonder about a range of possibilities: You can make your neighbor have a drought, or potentially have a flood.

Re:When the rain falls here, it doesn't fall there

[NeutronCowboy]

Yup. Think there's a fuss about who owns the water in a river (which, btw, is the reason China is in Tibet and will never leave)? It's gonna be worse when people try to make clouds rain in a place that they would normally just pass over. At least, with a river, it's pretty obvious if someone is diverting massive amounts of it. But with rain-making machines, it's generally hard to tell that something out of the ordinary did take place. Add some cross-border animosity to the mix, and suddenly Twain's quip about whiskey and water is going to be more true than ever.

Re:When the rain falls here, it doesn't fall there

[AK Marc]

Here, I'm required by law to catch rainwater. But in Colorado, it's illegal to do so, as the water rights are owned downstream.

I can see it now.

[Anachragnome]

I can see it now.

China claims success in their Weather Control efforts, when in reality those increases in precipitation are actually a result of their contribution to global warming--warmer air has the potential to "hold" more water.

Re:I can see it now.

[ackthpt]

I can see it now.

China claims success in their Weather Control efforts, when in reality those increases in precipitation are actually a result of their contribution to global warming--warmer air has the potential to "hold" more water.

One would think, with all the particulate matter they throw up into the air they would already be causing increased precipitation.

Well, Mulholland and his lot thought they could make the desert bloom, bring water to the southwestern US from the Columbia River and the Great Lakes, so ambitious were their schemes. Fortunately they only met with limited success - which Los Angeles was developed out of.

Re:I can see it now.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fortunately they only met with limited success - which Los Angeles was developed out of.

So you're saying that even their limited success ultimately led to disaster?

Re:I can see it now.

[Thing 1]

Well, Mulholland and his lot thought they could make the desert bloom

They certainly had a lot of drive!

Nice try..

[ackthpt]

But if the moisture isn't already in the air in sufficient quantities, it doesn't want to come pouring down.

Why not just build desalination plants to take demand off rivers downstream and reservoirs upstream to retain water from high rainfall years?

Built the Three Gorges Dam, which is a dam disaster to the population and environment, now they going to play around with the sky. Not very forward thinking, really.

Re:Nice try..

[MightyYar]

The ocean?

Re:Nice try..

[daem0n1x]

The main problem is that they yield extremely expensive water.

Re:Nice try..

[ackthpt]

The main problem is that they yield extremely expensive water.

Then you're doing it all wrong. Brute force desalination, with a power plant behind you, is a very crude way of doing it.

Kaboom! wooho, there are some cloud now

[youn]

sounds like a mad scientist plan... but hey if it works :)

this sounds like a syfy channel movie

[Joe_Dragon]

The good part is where it goes out of control.

Re:Climate change...

[hedwards]

Depends on the weather patterns. If somebody did that on the west coast of the US, that would cause all sorts of problems for people down wind. But, if they did it just upwind of the east coast it would have negligible effect.

I'm not sure precisely how the wind patterns are in that part of the world, but I have a feeling that the impact will be relatively minor. I'm not sure that rain falling on the ocean is really that much different then rivers flowing into the river. Apart from differing types of pollution.

Re:Climate change...

[roc97007]

AlGore hasn't seemed too excited over the other ecological disasters in China. Merely making it rain is trivial in comparison to some. So I'm guessing he's going to ignore it, but will have some pedestrian answer prepared if he's ambushed.

Fiendish Yellow Brains!

[ph4cr]

Oh, I don't know. Considering we exist in a closed system (we live on a ball, in space)... What Could Possibly Go Wrong? No KYOTO for us! We can fix billions of years of planetary evolution with our fiendish little yellow brains!!!

Re:Uh VERY bad

[norpy]

You forget that taking moisture out of the air will reduce the partial pressure and more evaporation will occur.

By the time this "dry" air makes it across an ocean it will once again be laden with water.

Re:Uh VERY bad

[Anonymous Coward]

4. Earthquakes - screwing with the rainfall patterns also lubricates the faults, so this might cause more earthquakes along the Pacific as stresses change.

I'm not aware of any studies showing increased rainfall influencing quakes. However, there does seem to be some consensus that induced seismicity from dams and other human actions is real.

If you throw more water on the land than is typical, it'll eventually percolate in and cause the strata to weigh more. I don't think it's too far fetched to say that altering the weather pattern in an area could accelerate seismic activity locally. I think it's a lot less likely that it'd have influence on the entire "ring of fire". I think the local weather patterns would be like a freckle on the butt of a rhinocerous in that regard.

Re:Climate change...

[ajlitt]

Mr. President, we must not allow a precipitation gap!

And yet

[WindBourne]

I wonder how this will do with the warming that is occurring? Supposedly the models show that China's rain is suppose to drop a great deal. Perhaps this is their way of winning their cold war.

Destro already build one

[GodfatherofSoul]

He just can't keep the damned Joes from meddling with Cobra's plans to dominate the world with it.

tax time

[fonitrus]

Maybe the Australian Carbon Tax which is suposed to offset climate change effects be passed on to the Chinese since if this program goes full scale day to day operation they will efectively be responsible for the weather in other countries :) :) I mean i read a butterfly farting in Brazil causes thunderstorms in Jakarta some sort of chaos theory effect. So TAX THE CHINESE!!!

Where are all "climate change fighters" ?

[kubusja]

It looks like it is not that China does not try to prevent stop the climate changes.... It actively tries to cause ones.... Where are all naive climate savers who help to move industry from USA/Europe to China ?

Re:Climate change...

[Olivier Galibert]

That's where it can get interesting... Water vapor is a greenhouse gas, a *way* more efficient one than CO2. If they manage to reduce the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere, that is going to reduce the greenhouse effect.

Interesting, 'innit ?

    OG.

Re:Effects of Weather Control == Drought

[Viol8]

Its been dry all over europe this year. The rhine and danube are at record low levels.

ALL YOUR RAIN

[GameboyRMH]

ALL YOUR RAIN ARE BELONG TO US

- Chinese government, weather control division

The Power to Further Enslave

[fygment]

Make a region dependent on an artificially created local microclimate ... and use your control of it to extort whatever you want from the region.

Re:How is this any different than US/CAN?

[SleazyRidr]

I'm not sure what it is about that site, but it doesn't give me a good feeling.

Re:Climate change...

[orphiuchus]

Ahh, modded down by the usual slashdot sycophants. Anything pro-US, anti-socialist, or anti limousine-liberal is modded down as low as it will go.