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Kindle Fire and Nook Upgrades Kill Root Access

jfruhlinger writes "The Kindle Fire and Barnes and Noble Nook tablets are similar enough and close enough together in price that they ought to be fighting market share and one-upping each other in terms of features they offer users. But the latest OS upgrades to both gadgets claims to be an 'upgrade' while actually taking functionality away: both remove the ability to root the device." A more balanced way of looking at it is that the updates fix known local privilege escalation vulnerabilities. This might be more of an issue for people wanting to hack on the Nook Tablet: its bootloader is confirmed locked, but reports lean toward the Kindle Fire having an unlocked bootloader letting anyone flash their own software without needing to gain root first.

48 of 275 comments (clear)

  1. Good by A12m0v · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Root access was a security risk. I'm glad Amazon fixed that.

    --
    GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
    1. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It didn't come with root access, so they aren't fixing a security risk. They are just removing the ability for some people to voluntarily accept the risk.

    2. Re:Good by SJHillman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sort of like being able to open the hood on your car is a security risk.

    3. Re:Good by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Funny

      It is. Most cars have the hood release inside the (presumably) locked cabin... and are hooked up to an alarm system.

      I agree with your sentiment; I just could not resist shooting at your analogy!

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    4. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, seriously. When you have a security flaw that allows root privilege escalation you don't just decide not to fix that because the homebrewer's were using it as a convenient way to get access to the machine. If this was on an (open) desktop platform, such a flaw wouldn't really be tolerated for long.

      It's like when people are upset that an exploit in a game was fixed that people were using to win / get free stuf / etc, yet they don't get upset when a bug is fixed that was actually preventing them from completing a game.

    5. Re:Good by tepples · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then let's roll with the analogy: why don't more Android devices have a legitimate hood release of sorts?

    6. Re:Good by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If this was on an (open) desktop platform, such a flaw wouldn't really be tolerated for long.

      Which is why the user should simply be given root access to begin with. Instead of having to use privilege escalation attacks, users should just be able to hit a button or flip a switch to enable root access for themselves. Quick, easy, and perhaps voiding the warranty (but I think anyone who wants root access is willing to have no warranty).

      Why is this so hard?

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    7. Re:Good by rufty_tufty · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Welcome to the real world, the property you own isn't yours.
      You're not buying a product any more you're buying a service. You can't lend others your books (look in the copyright notice at the front if you doubt me) You can't

      It is not your music, it is licensed from those who own it.
      Oh you're a band and think you own your music? Nope, it belongs to your record label.
      Oh you're not signed to a record label? Since 7 notes is enough to copyright a riff then that gives you just over 5000 original works of music so there is no original works anymore. You cannot produce your own works of art anymore.

      Okay maybe you have an idea for a cool new machine, nope that's almost certainly covered by someone else's vague patent. Your ideas aren't yours.

      Okay what about your house, I bet it's mortgaged so the bank owns it.
      Oh, you own your house outright, fine but who enforces it? When someone tries to take it from you it's a government giving you a licence to live there as long as you pay property taxes.

      Actually you know what I started writing this as a parody post and now I'm not sure anymore, exactly what do we own anyway? What has anyone ever owned? Did those 200 years ago have more property rights than we currently have?
      Moving forwards should we have more property rights? Should I be allowed to sell you a device that is designed to break, or at least rely on updates to keep doing the same job? Machinery has always worn out, selling with a contract that requires a service contract has always been legal (AFAIK) so why are we annoyed about this now?

      --
      "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
    8. Re:Good by mlts · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bingo. One can just look at the Nexus line of devices and the "fastboot oem unlock" command and the warning given as the right way to go about doing this. This is enough of a hurdle to keep Joe Sixpack from doing it so he can see the dancing bunnies, but allows people who are willing to trash their device (and not bother calling hardware support) to do what they feel free to.

    9. Re:Good by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, a privilege escalation exploit IS a security risk.

      The unlocked bootloader means that on the Fire, this is at most a small speedbump in the process of modifying a device. However this prevents malware from gaining privilege escalation. (Most of the easiest Android rooting techniques like psneuter and rageagainstthecage relied on exploits that could and WERE also used by malware such as Droid Dream.)

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    10. Re:Good by atisss · · Score: 2

      It's advertised as "Manufacturer will have the lock to hood, and come at night time to change the oil if it's necessary". But that rarely happens.

    11. Re:Good by nedlohs · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the point.

      That isn't what was removed. What was removed was a security flaw that let a non-root app running on the device get root priveledges.

    12. Re:Good by cusco · · Score: 2

      Once I've bought the thing it's no longer "their stuff", it's now MY stuff and I should be able to do what I want with it. If they agree to provide support for a certain time period as part of the purchase contract I would expect that the support will **NOT** break MY tablet. If it does (and isn't simply a mistake or incompetence) then they're not keeping their part of the deal.

      For the obligatory car analogy . . . If GM sells you a car and throws in a year of free oil changes and tune ups, would you be a bit annoyed if during one of the oil changes they also installed a governor that prevented you from driving faster than 50 kph? I would be.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    13. Re:Good by Moryath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And yet if the car companies removed your hood release and required a special key or tool only available at the dealerships, you'd be screaming bloody murder and so would the mechanic's unions with good reason - in fact, several times there were class action lawsuits against GM, Ford, and Toyota due to their refusal to sell the appropriate adapters and codebooks necessary to troubleshoot or reset "check engine lights" and computer warnings to the 3rd-party mechanic shops.

      Imagine if the car companies wanted to take away your RIGHT to have your car fitted out with a turbocharger, or an aftermarket performance chip, or a better flywheel, or any number of other changes.

      Now why is it that people don't scream bloody murder when they have a computing device in their hand, personal property they purchase, and they're told "but you don't have admin rights to change anything so there"???

    14. Re:Good by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, the answer is that copyright doesn't grant all the privileges the publishers are claiming, at least in the USA. In particular, the Doctrine of First Sale pretty much says that you can legally do whatever you want with your copy once they've sold it to you (aside from using it to make more copies). That includes not only obvious things like transportation, but also lending—both free/personal loans and commercial rental.

      Rental companies and retailers often do have special agreements with the publishers, but that's because the publishers are offering them a better deal, not because they need the agreement simply to resell or rent out the physical books/DVDs/etc.

      Digital media falls into a rather gray area, which is how the publishers like it. They take advantage of the ephemeral nature of digital goods to undermine the First Sale doctrine, while simultaneously claiming that the content has been fixed in a tangible medium in order to gain copyright privileges over it. It should be one or the other, but they leverage the confusion to get their way on both counts.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    15. Re:Good by Anomalyst · · Score: 4, Funny

      Boats have cabins, cars have interiors.

      It's a ship not a boat.

      --
      There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
    16. Re:Good by Pope · · Score: 4, Funny

      I drain my crankcase every weekend and replace the oil to try out different brands. Doesn't everyone?

      --
      It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
    17. Re:Good by Smallpond · · Score: 2

      The reason they are preventing you from rooting has nothing to do with whether you do something stupid to the device and post nasty comments on the net. As you point out, nobody cares what you do to a laptop or desktop. The only reason they want to prevent root access is so their content isn't copied. They make all of their money selling books, apps, etc. This is why the Microsoft eBook Reader app failed. No publisher wants to put their content on a PC, they will only put it on a closed device.

    18. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um, check ur math dude, we're not doing factorials here. With 12 notes available on the chromatic scale used to produce your 7 note riffs it would appear your "5000 original works" figure is way off.

      Wrong way:
      7 * 6 * 5 * 4 * 3 * 2 * 1 = 5040

      Correct way:
      12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 * 12 = 35,831,808

      (And that's ignoring keys! Was that 3rd note a D# or an Eb?? :)

    19. Re:Good by Pi1grim · · Score: 2

      Why change the oil, when you can sell a new car, with new, better oil.

    20. Re:Good by KhabaLox · · Score: 2

      You think every bookstore that mails or delivers books has written agreements with every publisher? Amazon was just an example; the logic applies to anyone who mechanically transmits* a work.

      *I think the other two child posts are more to the point. 1) Mechanical Transmission doesn't mean physically shipping/giving/lending (see: libraries). 2) Copyright law is more nuanced than the boilerplate on a book's title page.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
    21. Re:Good by blagooly · · Score: 2

      A ship carries a boat.

    22. Re:Good by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Informative

      No need: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=cockpit

      The midshipman's berth on naval ships used to be called the "cockpit," a pit for fighting cocks (roosters). Midshipmen were usually young men, frequently in fierce competition for limited promotions.

      Cock as slang for penis probably also originates with cock meaning rooster.

    23. Re:Good by bws111 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is a pretty pathetic analogy, and yet dopes still mark it insightful. Amazing.

      A car has a hood release for a very simple reason: the manufacturer REQUIRES you to perform regular checks and services under the hood. There are plenty of places in a car where the manufacturer does NOT make it easy to get to (under the dash, for instance), because in normal use (as intended by the manufacturer) there is simply no need to do that. There are other things in a car which require destruction of parts of the car to get to (some body panels, for instance).

      As for adding a turbocharger, etc. I looked under the hood of my car, and I did not see some spot marked 'plug-in turbocharger here'. In fact, I don't even see enough room under there to install a turbocharger. However, I assume by your 'right' comment that you mean the manufacturer does not prevent you from installing a turbocharger.

      Fair enough. However, I see no statement from the manufacturer that installing a turbocharger is supported in any way. If you install a turbocharger, it is pretty unreasonable to expect that the ECM is going to be able to handle that. It is unreasonable to expect the rest of the engine components and drivetrain to be capable of handling the extra horsepower. It is unreasonable to expect that replacement parts from the manufacturer are still going to fit. It is unreasonable to expect that the fuel economy and emissions characteristics are the same. It is unreasonable to expect the handling and braking characteristics the be able to handle the faster speeds.

      And here is the big difference between your car modification and your supposed general computing device modification. When you modify your car, you no longer expect to have what the manufacturer sold you. Sure, the hardware is still yours, but the reliability, performance, etc has been changed, perhaps drastically. But, for some reason, you expect to be able to modify an eReader into a general computing device, but still have it function as the manufacturer intended.

      You have just as much RIGHT to modify your Kindle as your car. You can pull any chips and replace them with other ones. You can remove their software and install your own. However, you have absolutely NO right to insist that the Kindle retain it's original function, or that the manufacturer is in any way responsible for making the device capable of doing what you want.

    24. Re:Good by bws111 · · Score: 2

      No matter how 'trivial' you perceive it to be, it is still expense. They not only have to provide the hardware and develop the software to support it, they also have to test it. Warranty costs will rise as idiots brick their devices and return them as defective. Support costs will rise as each call takes longer when it includes an attempt at recovery. Customers will get pissed at having to attempt recovery on a broken device.

      A friend of mine had a Kindle that failed recently. They called Amazon, and after about 30 seconds had the authorization to return the device, and a replacement had already been shipped. The more complicated you make the device, the harder it is to afford/provide service like that.

      Added cost to the manufacturer, no benefit to 99.9% of the users, and zero benefit to the manufacturer are all very good reasons to not provide that kind of function.

    25. Re:Good by vux984 · · Score: 2

      Unless you wrote it yourself, you do not OWN software

      I own that copy of it. And copyright doesn't give them any power over what I do with that copy except within a very limited scope relating primarily to distributing additional copies.

      If I buy a copy of Lord of the Rings, then I own that copy. I can pee on it. I can cut it into pieces and rearrange the pages. I can white out the word Frodo and put my dogs name in its place. I can cut out the section with tom bomadill and burn it. I can write a sex scene between Gandalf and Sauroman and glue in between chapter 10 and 11. Its my copy. I own it.

      I do not need a license to USE or MODIFY the copy I own as described above.

      I only need a license to do something copyright restricts. I need a license to sell or even give away copies of what I've done, I need a license before I make a public performances of it or read it out on the radio.

      But I don't need a license to do whatever I want to the copy I own within the confines of copyright.

      There is nothing special about the PS3. You can do whatever you want with the part you own (hardware), and Sony can do whatever they want with the part they own (software), including not permitting you to run it.

      Paraphrase that to a book or a CD., especially that last sentence. Does a book publisher get to tell you you aren't permitted to read it after they've sold you a copy? Does a CD publisher get to tell you that you aren't allowed to play the song after they sold you a copy? Of course not. That would be absurd. You don't need a license to read a purchased book or listen to a purchased CD

      Why EXACTLY do you think software is different?
      Why EXACTLY do you think you need a license to "run software"?

      What makes the string of 0s and 1s that make up "Hello World.exe" so fundamentally different from the string of 0s and 1s that make up "Another Brick in the Wall" that you NEED a LICENSE to use the former but not the latter?

  2. Re:Neither advertise Android as a selling point by tepples · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Anonymous Coward wrote, in a slightly more inflammatory wording:

    Neither device [...] has access to the real android market.

    Maybe you should [...] go buy a real Android tablet...

    Which affordable, certified "real Android tablet" in the 7 to 8 inch range do you recommend instead of a Kindle Fire or Nook Tablet? Or are Kindle Fire and Nook Tablet like game consoles, sold at razor-thin margins or even at a loss to get people onto the manufacturer's store, and that's why they're so much cheaper than Google-certified devices?

  3. Mmmm, movies by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Since the last update to the Nook Color let me watch Netflix (it works really well, although subtitles could be slightly larger) and fixed a few oversights like not being able to read books in landscape mode, I really don't have a reason to root it anymore. It may just be my perception, but overall performance seems to have improved slightly as well. Does anyone know if this affects dual-booting the Nook Color off of a microSD card?

    1. Re:Mmmm, movies by ajlitt · · Score: 2

      It will always attempt to boot from microSD first. The boot order is hardwired on the board.

    2. Re:Mmmm, movies by DdJ · · Score: 4, Informative

      This does not impact the Nook Color in any significant way.

      Both the Nook Color and Nook Tablet will try to boot off microSD first if they can. That's not part of the OS. However, the Nook Tablet requires a signed kernel to boot, and the Nook Color does not. So, this change results in a significant loss of hackability for the Nook Tablet, since you had to "jailbreak" it in some sense to do anything. It does not result in a significant loss of hackability for the older Nook Color, since you can still just write an unsigned kernel to a microSD card and you're off and running.

      Disclaimer: this is my understanding from scouring the xda-dev forums for details and from hacking my own Nook Color. I've confirmed that 1.4.1 on the Nook Color does close the sideloading "hole", and that a 1.4.1 Nook Color will still boot stuff like CM7.1 from microSD card. The rest of it, I have not personally verified myself, but am summarizing my understanding from reading experts talking about it all.

  4. Follow the money by MonsterTrimble · · Score: 4, Insightful
    First off, is anyone surprised? As a business, I'm making sure:
    1) That people don't try to return the product when they screw it up doing something that the product wasn't intended to do (and it costs me money)
    2) That I eliminate a potential attack vector for malware which would lead to decreased sales and increased returns (which costs me money)
    3) That people are locked into using my products (which makes me money)

    This is all about the money people. This isn't about trying to screw over the 0.1% of people who buy the tablet - It's about maximizing the profits. And let's be realistic here - they will be recracked in short order.

    --
    I call it 'The Aristocrats'
    1. Re:Follow the money by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That people don't try to return the product when they screw it up doing something that the product wasn't intended to do

      It is a computer, not a hammer. Since when do we declare that a computer is "not intended" to do something in software? If people were complaining that their Nook could not solve the Post correspondence problem, you would have a point.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:Follow the money by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That people don't try to return the product when they screw it up doing something that the product wasn't intended to do (and it costs me money)

      The proper way to fix this isn't to block all rooting but to provide a working recovery means to reset the operating system to factory state, restore applications from the market, and restore the user's data from automatic backup. Then figure out a way to segregate the user's data so that it doesn't have to be restored as often; the "/sdcard" partition in some Android devices has worked well for this.

      That I eliminate a potential attack vector for malware

      You can't neutralize malware without first defining malware. This involves enumerating the possible bad things that malicious software can do. Does this list of bad things miss anything?

    3. Re:Follow the money by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2

      That people don't try to return the product when they screw it up doing something that the product wasn't intended to do

      It is a computer, not a hammer. Since when do we declare that a computer is "not intended" to do something in software? If people were complaining that their Nook could not solve the Post correspondence problem, you would have a point.

      Neither company advertises there reader as anything but a reader designed to run their software. Just because it was capable of being rooted doesn't mean they have to continue to allow it to be rooted or that they are taking anything away. You are free to buy someone else's product or not upgrade yours and live with the capabilities and limitations of the current setup.

      You are still also free to try to root the device or otherwise modify it - but neither company has any obligation to make it easy to do that. It's their product, their choice on what capabilities to include, and you choice wether or not to buy it based on those capabilities. If you buy it for an unadvertised capability then you're on your own if it goes away.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    4. Re:Follow the money by LWATCDR · · Score: 2

      Everything just about is a computer or has a computer in it.
      That is where things get fuzzy. Should you have the ability to change the software on all of them. Take cars for example. They have lots of computers. Lots of people will reprogram the ECM but what about the CPU that controls the anitlock brakes?
      I am all for the hacking of devices but I can see the manufactures point of view. They made a devices that does xyz and sells it as doing xyz. They never told you that you could root it.
      At least the Fire allows third party apps to be side loaded.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  5. Re:Neither advertise Android as a selling point by poena.dare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have a real faux Android tablet called an HPTouchPad. It's sweet!

  6. Re:Neither advertise Android as a selling point by Anon-Admin · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have several FlyTouch pads from China. The new ones are dual touch with 1ghz processors in a 7" format and are running around 80$ including shipping. They are google Android and they will send you the android image. Re-flashing is as easy as putting the image on an sd card and booting the unit with the sd card in it.

    Not the greatest in the world but they are very good for around the house network access, book reading, hacking, etc.

  7. Right to Read by mounthood · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In-case anyone hasn't read the Richard Stallman story: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

    From the authors notes:

    One of the ideas in the story was not proposed in reality until 2002. This is the idea that the FBI and Microsoft will keep the root passwords for your personal computers, and not let you have them.

    The proponents of this scheme have given it names such as “trusted computing” and “Palladium”. We call it “treacherous computing” ...

    The 1997 prediction, proposed in 2002, is reality in 2011. The big surprise is that the implementation isn't a technical DRM/TC scheme, but a fundamental change in corporations retaining ownership and control of items after they've been sold. Who could have predicted that?

    --
    tomorrow who's gonna fuss
    1. Re:Right to Read by swillden · · Score: 2

      The device we are discussing here is a book reader.

      Making Stallman's "Right to Read" story particularly appropriate.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  8. Lockdown is good and necessary by cdrguru · · Score: 2

    There are a number of exposure vectors for stuff like this. Certainly the average user does not want something that they buy/download to gain additional privileges and do unexpected things. Anything that makes that less likely is going to be required.

    I believe these devices are WiFi only and do not have a great deal of radio power, but you can believe anything with a cell radio in it is going to be locked down as tightly as necessary to absolutely prevent changing radio parameters. The first hacker that gets into a cell radio and shows the world how they can disrupt cell communications in their corner of the world will prove the need for this kind of lockdown beyond any doubt. But I don't see how this would apply to these devices.

    Certainly both devices are sold either at a loss or at a very, very thin margin with the expectation that they will be used to buy stuff from the parent company and mostly the parent company. Overall, Amazon has been quite generous with the Kindle line - supporting the 3G wireless access for web browsing, email reading, etc. Yes, you can download non-Amazon books through the Amazon-supported wireless access. I suspect with the Fire the capabilities are there to access free and paid content outside of Amazon, but the Amazon stuff is easier to get to. I have no idea what sort of capabilities the Nook has, but I am guessing both have NetFlix access just as an example. So the devices aren't really "owned" by their parent but the expectation that there will be future profits affect the price of the devices. Similar devices are normally priced a bit higher - as much as 50%.

    I do not think the parent "subsidy" is the reason for the lockdown as to the average consumer they are no more locked down now than before. If you can still pay NetFlix and watch movies on the device, then it isn't locked to only Amazon or B&N content.

    I think the only explanation that is reasonable is the absolute very last thing they want is any sort of downloaded software making its way onto one of these devices and taking it over. Anything that prevents that or makes it less likely is going get pushed out to the user community. Anyone criticizing this doesn't understand the risks or the incredible backlash that would follow from an exploit on one of these devices.

  9. Re:A class in C++ is a fancy name for a struct by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Thanks for the heads up but I've done C++ for the last 15 years. A C struct is NOT the same as a C++ struct because it can't inherit and it doesn't have methods , only the option of function pointers, but thanks for playing.

  10. Re:...then pirate the Gapps by dmesg0 · · Score: 2

    Are they certified by Google? If not, then what market do they come with?

    Almost all are not, but there are some exceptions, e.g. MIPS-based Ainol Novo 7 is Google certified (running ICS) and costs around 100$

    Does "pretty good hardware" include a capacitive digitizer so that 1. I can run applications that require Android Market, and 2. I don't have to either borrow my DS's stylus or press so hard I feel like I'm running the risk of breaking it?

    Yes, most 100$+ tablets are using capacitive 5-point multitouch screens. Their resolution is usually quite low though, but it's going to change soon - there are several new 7" tablets with 1024x600 resolution.

  11. Re:Neither advertise Android as a selling point by nomadic · · Score: 2

    You can do whatever you want to them, so yes, you do own in a traditional sense. They're not required to make it easy for you to root.

  12. Re:Happy Holidays from the Golden Girls! by Megane · · Score: 3

    It's a classic troll like those from the dawn of internet trolling, alt.religion.kibology circa 1993. Ah, the good old days of cross-posting about "Majel Barrett Shatner" and "the fifth Beable", both to the appropriate newsgroup for the show, and a.r.k for the audience.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  13. Re:...then pirate the Gapps by dmesg0 · · Score: 3, Informative

    And thus useless for check depositing. Chase Bank's deposit app for Android is exclusive to Android Market.

    A few minutes on slatedroid, half an hour of effort and your favorite Chinese tablet is running the full market. And please don't tell me time is money, your mere presence here proves otherwise.

    So how do I convince the publisher of an application that uses the NDK to offer a MIPS version of the same application? I haven't yet had a chance to try a MIPS tablet for myself, but I'm under the impression that the view of Android Market on such a tablet would be as barren as, say, the AppsLib that comes on eighth-generation Archos devices because most apps using the NDK are exclusive to ARM and thus hidden.

    I never recommended buying a MIPS tablet, just answered your certification question. Though I guess for basic uses like web browsing, it should be fine.

    (Aside: Has my "trying to find the best affordable Android tablet" become "whining" yet? Should I stop now?)

    I would say yes. Though it looks to me like you are trying to convince yourself not to grab one of these 100$ tablets. Good luck with that, it's not easy. I failed 3 times :)

  14. Re: Car Analogy by sunderland56 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Much better car analogy: some car manufacturer comes out with a model where, if you hit the driver's door with your hand in the right place, the door unlocks. Lots of people buy the car and enjoy it, since you don't need to carry the keys around with you. Then the car manufacturer fixes the fault, and many people cry foul. Everyone misses the point that it is a generally bad idea to allow criminals to trivially get in to your car, and that locks are a *good* thing.

  15. Don't trust reviews written by morons by yelvington · · Score: 3, Informative

    I bought the NC because I could get it cheaper than the Kindle Fire and the reviews for the Fire said it was crap.

    You made a mistake relying on bad reviews written by morons. I've looked at a lot of them. They're mostly immature Apple fanbois trashing the competition and/or ignorant "tech journalists" who are cutting and pasting other peoples' reviews. 90% of what you see on tech blogs is pure plagiarism with a lame excuse link buried at the bottom.

    The truth is that the Kindle Fire is a really pleasant device, a great bargain, well-supported by Amazon (three OS updates so far) and with the 6.2.1 OS, quite snappy.

    I have a Fire, and my daughter has the Nook Color. In terms of performance, responsiveness and usability, the Kindle is head and shoulders above the Color (which is last year's model). A much faster dual-core CPU is the biggest reason, but the display is also much brighter. The Nook Tablet, which is about $50 more, is arguably better hardware, but it's more limited on the media and software side. Both support Netflix. The Fire has more apps and the Amazon music and video, which is important if you are a Prime member but maybe not all that big a deal otherwise. The Fire lacks SD card support and has no microphone like the Nook Tablet.

    For books, the Nook Android software is easily obtained and sideloaded on the Kindle Fire without rooting, so you have a choice. I'm not so sure that can be done the other way around.

    The Kindle Fire 6.2.1 upgrade wipes and reconfigures the Android /system partition. This is an easy way to do the upgrade, but if you rooted your Fire in order to install the Google app framework, you'll suddenly discover that calendar and contact sync has gone away. Most of the other Google software works without requiring rooting, and it's simple to pull a backup off your Android phone that can be installed on the Kindle Fire.

    The culprit here isn't Amazon, but rather Google, which is responsible for making its apps unavailable on the KF platform and for requiring that its application components be installed on the system partition. The only way to make the system partition writeable is to root the device.

    There are some parts of the Fire UI that needed some work; the carousel in particular was jerky and not always responsive. That's fixed in 6.2.1. I also see reports that the Kindle Fire doesn't like flaky, crappy wifi routers (and there are a LOT of crap routers out there). I don't know how much of that might be fixed in the upgrade. My routers all work fine.

  16. Re:Neither advertise Android as a selling point by starfire83 · · Score: 2

    I'd argue that it is a vendor's right and responsibility to plug security holes in their products whether it's hardware, software, or both. Simply because plugging that security hole removes future ability to exploit the product in such a way that gives you or someone else root access is a good thing. We really shouldn't be pressing vendors to keep security holes open because you're part of the vast minority that wants to have full root access to the device when, a majority of the time, you don't need or use those root functions. We should be pressing vendors for unlocked/unlockable bootloaders (via fastboot oem unlock for Android devices) that open up access without having to use a security exploit. It should be a feature, not a bug.