Slashdot Mirror


Vanity Fair On the TSA and Security Theater

OverTheGeicoE writes "Perhaps it's now officially cool to criticize the TSA. Vanity Fair has a story questioning the true value of TSA security. The story features Bruce Schneier, inventor of the term 'security theater' and contender for the Most Interesting Man in the World title, it would seem. With Schneier's mentoring, the author allegedly doctors a boarding pass to breach security at Reagan National Airport to do an interview with Schneier. 'To walk through an airport with Bruce Schneier is to see how much change a trillion dollars can wreak. So much inconvenience for so little benefit at such a staggering cost.'"

35 of 256 comments (clear)

  1. Get a clue Big Sis by koan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Israels airport security has not been breached since the 70's
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2011/01/whats_so_great_about_israeli_security.html

    "All passengers waiting to check in speak to a polyglot agent. The agents, most of whom are female, ask a series of questions, looking for nerves or inconsistent statements. While the vast majority of travelers pass the question and answer session and have a pretty easy time going through security"

    This method requires competence on the part of the interrogator though, so in effect that leaves out TSA employees.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    1. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have lived in Israel, and went through their vaunted security dozens of times. My own observations led me to suspect this was security theater of a different kind, and my suspicions were later verified by a friend who once worked as one of those security screeners. Their trained goal is to make the passengers think they can't pull one over on the security personnel, and it seems that's enough.

      That being said, they do screen baggage very carefully.

    2. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Citation desperately needed. All the cases I've seen of the ACLU stepping in involved racial, religious or other types of profiling that involved profiling for groups not for behavior.

      I realize that the ACLU is this conservative bogeyman that's out to prevent the government from doing its job, but let's get serious shall we. There's absolutely no evidence that the sort of profiling that you're suggesting would do anything other than harass innocent civilians for not being white enough.

    3. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The risk of terrorism is simply not severe enough to warrant that level of investment in security. We will save more lives focusing on clean drinking water, renewable energy, and public health and welfare in general. It would be a lot cheaper too.

      If the TSA is ineffective, don't be surprised. It's not intended to be effective. It's intended to be profitable for well connected individuals and corporations. It is quite plainly a fraud on the American people.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by Overzeetop · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, but they live directly adjacent to everybody who wants to kill them (and, in the immortal words of Tome Lehrer - "...and everybody hates the Jews"). We're separated from them by a ocean on each side.

      Not that it matters; I haven't heard of security screenings preventing a bomb from getting aboard a US aircraft, and yet we've had several bombs on them since 2001. Luckily, the passengers now understand that the "sit quietly and we'll land in Cuba and be home in a couple days" paradigm for hijacking is no longer valid. If a passenger gets rowdy, you take him down or you might die. And, so far, it's working pretty well.

      A simple metal detector and carry-on x-ray is all that is necessary.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    5. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This method requires competence on the part of the interrogator though, so in effect that leaves out TSA employees.

      And now that they're unionized, good luck with that. When was the last time we saw government voluntarily reduce its size and scope?

      The only way this is going to be fixed is by wiping out the whole department. There's a primary coming up a candidate who would do that.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    6. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I have lived in Israel, and went through their vaunted security dozens of times. My own observations led me to suspect this was security theater of a different kind, and my suspicions were later verified by a friend who once worked as one of those security screeners. Their trained goal is to make the passengers think they can't pull one over on the security personnel, and it seems that's enough.

      That being said, they do screen baggage very carefully.

      Part of security is intimidation. If you don't think you can breach the defenses and don't try - that's a win. But trying to use Israel as an example of 'how to do' airport security will fail for the simple reason that the Israelis are trying to protect only one large airport (Ben Gurion) - not hundreds of large ones and thousands of smaller ones. Some things just don't scale.

      Further, Israeli security is openly racist -if you look Arabic, you're chances of getting most carefully screened is much higher than if you're Caucasian appearing. That wouldn't (so to speak) fly in the US.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    7. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Informative

      Israels airport security has not been breached since the 70's

      You know what's wrong with Israeli airport security?
      Besides the institutionalized racial/ethnic profiling, It doesn't scale up.

      Ben Gurion airport handles ~12 million passengers per year
      JFK International* in New York handles ~46.5 million passengers per year.

      The number 1 airport in the world is Atlanta International and they handle ~89 million passengers per year.
      There is no reasonable way to intensively screen 89 million passengers per year

      *Adding Newark and LaGuardia gives you the biggest clusterfuck in the USA & #2 in the world.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    8. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by RoknrolZombie · · Score: 4, Funny

      So you can't scale "intimidation"?

      We could, but we'd have to import it from the Mexican drug cartels...

    9. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by AngryDeuce · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's a big difference between profiling someone that's acting really weird at an airport and profiling someone by assuming that, for instance, they're Hispanic and therefore should have their immigration status checked anytime they come into contact with a police officer.

      If there's reasonable suspicion I'm all for investigation. What I'm not all for, for instance, is assuming that every woman wearing a hijab is a potential terrorist and thus warrants investigation based on that fact alone.

      Reasonable suspicion is a grey area, I admit, but that's what the courts are for. The courts have emphatically upheld that simply being of a certain minority is not a valid reason to suspect they are breaking the law. Despite what you may hear as of late, all Muslims are not terrorists.

      Why do people never learn? Go read up on Manzanar and the Japanese Internment during World War II. That is the road profiling leads us down. They thought they were doing things in the best interests of the U.S. and its security, too...but it was still wrong, and we can all agree on that (I would hope).

    10. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by meerling · · Score: 4, Informative

      Of course it doesn't fly in the USA, the Palestinian guy is probably in the back room getting a body cavity search by the TSA and missing his flight, that he may not even be able to get on since he hasn't even been informed yet that he was put on a no-fly list because he his last name is similar to someone that is under suspicion of having ties to terrorists. Oh, did I forget to mention that the "Palestinian" is a native born American who's parents were Palestinian immigrants?

      It can and does happen. Haven't you been reading the new the past couple of years?

    11. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by tylerni7 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Although 12 million is certainly a large number, the US has many more travelers than that. In 2009, Atlanta's airport had something like 90M travelers use the airport. That means that one airport has more traffic than all of the airports combined in Israel.

      I agree that their airport security model is superior, and maybe it can scale to large airports in the USA, but if we have dozens of airports with more traffic than their busiest airport, scaling is very far from a simple task.

      Source

    12. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by mseeger · · Score: 4, Informative

      First: Overall security seems better to me in Israel. But experience breeds progress. The U.S. has an abysmal terrorist rate. Should you increase that, the counter terrorists will become better as well. For various reasons i discourage walking that path.

      Second: If you carry lot's of gadgets (like me), the check while leaving may take 1+ hours for doing the x-rays alone.

      Third: The checks start a lot earlier than the airport.

      Fourth: There are good security people and not so good, even in Israel. User experience may vary ;-). Security was more thorough 15 years ago. Seems more relaxed lately.

      Fifth: Ask Israeli businessmen what they think about the security people. The don't like them more than their counterparts in the U.S. do.

      Sixth: The terrorists already win, when flying becomes more of a burden. Life is a bitch :-(.

    13. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It does strongly prejudice against people who are from and/or have traveled to particular countries

      Exactly right. I'm as WASP as they come, and I was pulled aside at Ben Gurion when my passport showed entry visas for Egypt and Jordan. While the questions were very serious, at all times I felt like I was dealing with an intelligent, skilled professional whom I immediately respected. I have no such sense when I'm being barked at by some TSA goon.

    14. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      And now that they're unionized

      What does ionization have to do with it?

    15. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A Steve Dahl so succinctly put it: "If fat, middle-aged white guys in Hawaiian shirts were blowing up airplanes, I'd expect to receive more scrutiny at airports".

    16. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by hawguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You might eventually figure out how to scale the Israeli model to the US size .... but at what cost? How much do the Israelis pay per passenger? And what would it cost us?

      Don't forget the most important question: is it worth it? Does the expenditure match the threat? (the answer is no, btw).

      You might eventually figure out how to scale the Israeli model to the US size .... but at what cost? How much do the Israelis pay per passenger? And what would it cost us?

      Don't forget the most important question: is it worth it? Does the expenditure match the threat? (the answer is no, btw).

      You'll get no argument from me that it's not worth the effort, but if we are going to spend the money anyway, I'd rather that we spend it on something that works. I'd rather that we went back to the old days of metal detectors and random searches to help deter the casual criminal from doing something stupid. It's nearly impossible to deter a determined suicide terrorist, especially if he's willing to hide his explosives in a body cavity.

      Even if passenger screening was 100% effective, there are still many many ways to sneak something past security. All you have to do a bribe one security employee at one small commercial airport anywhere in the country and you can bring in anything you want and transport it to any airport. And I'm sure you can find at least one employee willing to accept $10K to smuggle in some "drugs", especially if he's addicted to the drugs he thinks he's smuggling. He doens't need to know that the 2 kg of "cocaine" is really high explosives.

      Or you hide it in a truckload of maintenance supplies. Or a caterer tucks it inside of a beverage cart. Or the bomber decides it's not worth the effort to smuggle his explosive on a plane and detonates his suitcased sized bomb in a crowded security checkpoint. Or, who knows how else they will do it - the problem with airport security is the same as computer security - the security is always reactionary and is only effective at stopping yesterday's attack there will always be new and novel ways to execute an attack. (and sometimes the security wastes time and effort to stop an attack that can't work anyway, like the ban on water to stop an improbable binary-explosive that would have to be cooked up in a lab on the airplane)

    17. Re:Get a clue Big Sis by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Or you hide it in a truckload of maintenance supplies. Or a caterer tucks it inside of a beverage cart. Or the bomber decides it's not worth the effort to smuggle his explosive on a plane and detonates his suitcased sized bomb in a crowded security checkpoint.

      All it would take is 10 terrorists with cheap explosives to blow up their bomb as they are first in line at the security checkpoint in 10 different busy airports all next year on September 11, and the US reaction will be sufficient to bankrupt all airlines and the goverment, crushing the USA for the cost of 10 suicide bombers. And if that doesn't work, repeat next year on the same date at baggage check-in. And the year after with car bombs out front. That will collapse the US airlines and US government together (most of the flights are "elective" as in luxury travel between locations they could have driven). Everyone I know but me who was scheduled to fly between Sept 11 and Sept 21 who couldn't fly just drove instead, including cross country. But I couldn't figure out how to drive from Dallas to Singapore on September 12, as per my ticket. There really is a delicate balance, and it wouldn't take much to bring down the house of cards. The absurd thing was the number of people who asked if I was scared to fly 2 weeks after 9/11. Uh, no. Probably the safest time to fly, and long before the TSA started screwing with passengers.

  2. Dwight D. Eisenhower quote by FudRucker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security."

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  3. Re:Good. by Jawnn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "...but if we don't grope your junk and seize your nail clippers and mouthwash, 'the terrorists win'. Don't you see how important it is to make it look like you are safe from a terrorist threat? Never mind that the likelihood of it actually touching you is infinitesimal, or that you have given up, probably forever, precious civil rights. We need to make you feel safer. This is our job."

  4. How to befuddle the TSA: by Entropius · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I see your prohibition is against 'liquids'. Can I carry ice onboard?"

    The agent didn't know. Asked his supervisor; she didn't know.

  5. And the reason why, for better or worse by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Security theater, from this perspective, is an attempt to convey a message: “We are doing everything possible to protect you.” When 9/11 shattered the public’s confidence in flying, Slovic says, the handful of anti-terror measures that actually work—hardening the cockpit door, positive baggage matching, more-effective intelligence—would not have addressed the public’s dread, because the measures can’t really be seen. Relying on them would have been the equivalent of saying, “Have confidence in Uncle Sam,” when the problem was the very loss of confidence. So a certain amount of theater made sense.

    After witnessing enough conversations about how TSA is worthless, or worse, yet another part of an effort to acclimate hapless Americans to living in a police state, I think it's valid to consider the reasons for even "appearances" of security, and I'm glad this article laid them out clearly. Even appearances can be a deterrent.

    The other points in the article are also valid. I believe we need to ask ourselves the question that if at least some amount of "theater" is appropriate, what is that amount, and what would the damage been to the air transport sector if nothing (visible) had been done? Note I don't pretend to know the answer.

    Some say that money might better have been spent "educating" people why such security measures don't work, so they won't be a afraid when they don't see it. That's a task far easier said than done. Alongside the constant drumbeat in some circles that the government is out to get them, it's important to understand there are actual legitimate reasons for things the TSA is doing, seen and unseen.

    None of this means that our homeland security efforts should be exempt from criticism or thoughtful scrutiny, but it needs to be done against a backdrop of reason.

    Interesting semi-related story:

    Skies Are Now So Safe on U.S. Flights That Experts Turn Focus to 'Surface Threats'

    1. Re:And the reason why, for better or worse by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The skies aren't safe because of the TSA, it's because nobody really wants to blow up an airplane, jihadi style.

      Think about it - the failure rate of the TSA is over 60% at some airports. If the so-called jihadis really want to blow up airplanes, they just need to send 10 people and they'll take out six airplanes, on average.

      Or if you believe this liquid explosive nonsense, they can send 10 guys each with 3 oz shampoo bottles.

      It may be because ordinary Americans solved the security problem over a field in Shanksville PA just an hour after the 9/11 plot became known.

      Or maybe the secure cockpit doors had something to do with it.

      Or maybe the 9/11 plot wasn't really carried out by jihadis.

      Any of the above could be true, but what's clearly not true is that there currently exists a jihadi threat to airliners.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    2. Re:And the reason why, for better or worse by SmurfButcher+Bob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > Alongside the constant drumbeat in some circles that the government is out to get them, it's important to understand there are actual legitimate reasons for things the TSA is doing, seen and unseen.

      Name three.

      Note that pumping billions into a crony corporation is not considered legitimate.

      --

      help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am

    3. Re:And the reason why, for better or worse by rikkards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      if jihadis really wanted to cause terror blow themselves up in security lines. Forget the planes, they could take out passengers and the TSA

    4. Re:And the reason why, for better or worse by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Blowing up US planes has been tried four times since 9/11. Each time it has failed because of intelligence, in-flight security or passenger action.

      The TSA however been hasn't shown to be worth jack shit let alone a trillion dollars. They haven't stopped or prevented anything.

      Passengers who responded in these situation got the full-blown hero treatment in the media. Every now and then the Flight 93 movies and documentaries are rebroadcast which further drives home the message.

      IMHO the reason you don't see it much is that it doesn't work any more, not that terrorists don't want to do it. All it does is make heroes of ordinary people, which is not the result terrorists want.

  6. Re:Oh man.. by hedwards · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yeah, really, I've been badmouthing the TSA since before it was cool.

    I also happen to be really into this band, but you wouldn't have heard of them.

  7. Accident Waiting to Happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Security isn't very good at the White House either:

    So off we went to Washington [to have dinner with President Bush]. The dinner was at the Hilton, where Ronald Reagan had been shot. It wasn't long after 9/11, so I was feeling really paranoid about the security situation. Then, when we got there, it was pandemonium. They had about five thousand TV cameras outside, and just one little metal detector with a couple of guys manning it. I had to cling on to Greta's jacket just to get through the crowd. Meanwhile, my assistant Tony -- who's only a little fella -- skipped over the rope and walked behind the metal detector without anyone even noticing. It was a joke, man. I could have smuggled a ballistic fucking missile into that place, and no one would have said a word.

    Citation:
    Ozzy Osbourne, from the biography "I Am Ozzy"

  8. Re:Good. by Cosgrach · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The terrorists have already won. FTFY. They have caused a state of irrational fear. They have changed the lives of every single American alive. They have cost us in the lives of American soldiers in a pointless war in Afghanistan and Iraq. We have spent BILLIONS on these wars. They have caused us to spend BILLIONS of dollars in an largely ineffective program of trying to reassure people that they will be safe. While we may not be able to say that they have destroyed our economy, I think that it's a pretty safe bet that a good part of the reason for our current economic stress is either directly or indirectly related to this. One good example is the airline bailout following 9-11. Our Constitution has been gutted and people's rights have been trampled into the ground.

    IMO, the real terrorists now are the war contractors, our elected officials and the fucking sheeple who put them there.

    --
    Why is it that most of the people that I encounter seem to have been shat from the Sphincter of Mediocrity?
  9. Re:Oh man.. by unrtst · · Score: 5, Funny

    I burn my tongue every time I eat pizza... I always eat it before it's cool.

  10. Re:provide conceal carry? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Logic goes that if anyone is allowed conceal carry,...

    No, the logic goes that people who are planning to shoot up a bunch of people are not going to be deterred by the fact that some place is a "gun-free" zone. As a matter of fact, that makes that place a better choice for shooting up a bunch of people because you know that no one else there will be armed. The argument is that these places should allow those who have been granted a concealed carry permit (a process that usually involves some evaluation of the mental state of the individual and whether or not they have a history of encounters with law enforcement) because then not everybody there would be solely a potential victim.
    Of course, the big part of this argument comes from the stories very few people hear of where someone tried to shoot up a place where there were people carrying concealed weapons. Within six months of the first Virginia Tech shootings there were two or three similar attempts that did not make the news because the shooter only got off about six shots before someone with a concealed carry license pulled their weapon and shot him. The thing is, every time someone tries this in a "gun-free" zone, there are a lot of deaths, every time someone tries this where someone is legally concealed carrying there are at most three deaths (two victims and the perpetrator).

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  11. Venezuela, then? by oneiros27 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've heard good things about the Venezuelean security screeners (I think it was Venezualean, I heard about it second-hand) ... maybe it was just a single case, and not the way it's all done, but rather than the 'standard 3' we used to get asked (did you pack your own bag, etc.), they'd ask questions like 'What's the color of the inside of your suitcase?'

    They were presenting at a conference, and the screener (coming in at customs), asked them to give the presentation to them. If it's someone claiming to be visiting as a tourist, you ask them what hotel they're staying at (and you can check the reservation), and what sites they plan on seeing.

    I admit, it's possible to be prepared for all of these questions ... but when they're less predictable (giving the screener the ability to improvise), and it's not just yes/no questions, it's harder to plan for.

    --
    Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
  12. Re:Oh man.. by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is interesting on the power of words. By adding a term calling it "Security Theater" it basically puts an end to the argument because the phrase is so catchy that it must be true.

    Or just by using a negative connotation to a concept is enough to get people to change their mind.

    I have learned to turn on my BS alarm when people start using words that give an emotional response. And challenged them much further to prove their point. Sometimes they do have a point, but using wording in your argument to evoke an emotional response isn't a valid argument.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  13. Fight fire with fire by colinrichardday · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, because the people who passed the PATRIOT Act weren't appealing to our emotions!

  14. Re:provide conceal carry? by oodaloop · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Agree on all points. Additionally, crimes that were averted with the mere flashing or drawing of a weapon do not get reported either. A woman getting raped and beaten is newsworthy and sensationalist. A woman pulling a gun defensively on someone trying to rape her wouldn't even get reported to the news let alone aired; too common and boring. I carry concealed, as do many of my friends. One of them was approached by several hoodlums. My friend pulled his vest to the side to show his pistol, and they walked away. How many times this kind of nonviolent preemptive defensive use of a firearm occurs is anyone's guess.

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.