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What If Babbage Had Succeeded?
mikejuk writes "It was on this day 220 years ago (December 26 1791) that Charles Babbage was born. The calculating machines he invented in the 19th century, although never fully realized in his lifetime, are rightly seen as the forerunners of modern programmable computers. What if he had succeeded? Babbage already had plans for game arcades, chess playing machines, sound generators and desktop publishing. A Victorian computer revolution was entirely possible."
The south of Europe flourished. Rome was founded and grew in power several centuries sooner than had previously been the case. Greece was conquered before the flame of Athens burned with its greatest intensity. With the death of Cato the Elder the final Punic War was postponed. Carthage also continued to grow, extending her empire far to the east and the south. The death of Julius Ambrosius aborted the Mithraist revival and Christianity became the state religion in Rome. The Carthaginians spread their power throughout the middle east Mithraism was acknowledged as their state religion.The clash did not occur until the fifth century. Carthage itself was destroyed, the westward limits of its empire pushed back to Alexandria. Fifty years later, the Pope called for a crusade. These occurred with some regularity for the next century and a quarter, further fragmenting the Carthaginian empire while sapping the enormous bureaucracy which had grown up in Italy. The fighting fell off, ceased, the lines were drawn, an economic, depression swept the Mediterranean area. Outlying districts grumbled over taxes and conscription, revolted. The general anarchy which followed the war of secession settled down into a dark age reminiscent of that in the initial undisturbed sequence. Off in Asia Minor, the printing press was not developed.
"Stalemate till then, anyway," said Blood.
"Yes, but look what Newton did."
"How could you have known?"
"That is the difference between a good player and an inspired player. I saw his potential even when he wasfooling around with alchemy. Look what he did for theirscience, single-handed—everything! Your next move wastoo late and too weak."
"Yes. I thought I might still kill their computers bydestroying the founder of International Difference Machines, Ltd."
Dust chuckled.
"That was indeed ironic. Instead of an IDM 120, the Beagle took along a young naturalist named Darwin."
Blood glanced along to the end of the sequence where the radioactive dust was scattered across a lifeless globe.
"But it was not the science that did it, or the religion."
"Of course not," said Dust. "It is all a matter of emphasis."
Just think of all the possibilities...
1800 would have been the year of Linux on the Desktop.
fyrmest !
Very interesting read. Here's a complete copy of the article for anyone who's interested:
Catchable fatal error: Argument 1 passed to TeraWurfl::addTopLevelSettings() must be an array, null given, called in /home/iprogr6/public_html/plugins/mobile/terawurfl/TeraWurfl.php on line 334 and defined in /home/iprogr6/public_html/plugins/mobile/terawurfl/TeraWurfl.php on line 463
and what if a great-grandmother had balls? She'd be great-grandfather.
The point is that Babbage did succeed, except it was through his inspiration, which took his ideas and better manufacturing processes and newer knowledge of materials and a refined computing model.
You can't handle the truth.
...we would be living in dem. "
But really, we'd probably actually have decent internet and flying cars. And robots. Can't forget the robots.
Uhm... it didn't ask "what if it was possible". The last sentence of the summary is, "A Victorian computer revolution was entirely possible."
The question was more, "What would the world have been like had he succeeded, then and centuries later". Or did you skip most of it to get a first post?
:) Except it would be called an iPod or an iPad, it would be a yeoldePod and yeoldePad. :)
What if the Black Death hadn't have occurred? What if Rome had never fallen? What if the Chinese had used gunpowder for more than fireworks? What if Christianity had never caught on? What if Native Americans had thrown off the colonists?
Until we start figuring out how to travel the multiverse, it's all subjective opinion...
The Difference Engine. We'd eventually get to the same place.
I always wonder what the world would have been like had the Romans realized that the steam engine-primitive forms of which were used only in temples and in entertainment/toys- could be used as a form of locomotion. Hind sight really is always 20/20, and makes you wonder if we have anything today that we use that could be used for something we could never dream of.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
The concept of huge mechanical computers fulfilling any purpose that seems hard for us to comprehend today.
Yet huge mechanical computers for specialized use were in actual deployment in several industries, not the least of which were "fire control computers" on US and British Battle Ships and Heavy Cruisers in the pre WWII era. These were initially fairly huge mechanical beasts that were originally developed around the time of the first World War, and which were initially totally mechanical in nature. By the Second World War they were electro-mechanical (solenoids and relays and stepper motors), and were enclosed in battle hardened enclosures.
Still 1920-to-1945 is hardly 1833, and the size and complexity of such devices taxed the manufacturing capabilities of the day, and the size and complexity of the problems they could solve was probably more easily worked out on paper than set (programmed) onto the machine.
Having worked out the concepts, one wonders how far Babbage could have progressed with a large budget and a larger machine shop to build his engines. There were precious few problems to which you could apply this technology in that day. But its a chicken and egg problem. Its hard to know what computations would have been attempted had such equipment been available. The calculation problems any society tackles tend to be near the limits of the computing capabilities available to the task.
A man before his time.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Two words for you: "Difference Engine". Bruce Sterling and William Gibson. That's what would happen if Babbage had succeeded.
A Victorian computer revolution was not possible, as should be obvious to anyone who understands how computers work. Just think of how massive (and weak) computers were back in the days of vacuum tubes. Now imagine how massive, weak, and prone to break downs they'd be if they were made of clockwork. You'd have an entire warehouse filled with moving parts that might be equivalent to a digital watch... at least until one of the gears breaks. The technology simply didn't exist to make computing feasible.
you or I wouldn't be here to ask the question for one thing because the world would be an entirely different place. Probably much stranger weather-wise too since the industrial revolution would have occurred a century or so earlier and who knows what military(s) would have used it to the best of their ability.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
If/when something bad happens in my life and, something awesome happens later after that, it makes me easier to accept the sucky occurance reasoned with the butterfly effect, as without it the great thing might not ever have happened. :)
Anyway, it's always amazing to think how the current state of world is a result of millions small things coming together. Without everything going exactly like this, even the probability of me existing would be extremely low.
They were this -> - close. Jewlers had green glass ovals they
looked into to rest their eyes. Part of the problem was that dip***t
Aristotle thought we saw by sending things OUT of our eyes.
Just think how much telescopes would have helped the navy or
the army on the Danube.
If Babbage had succeeded, then there would have been a programming language called Babbage, and a software store chain in malls called Ada's instead of the other way around.
This space unintentionally left blank.
The point is, we could be using tablets for a century by now, such patent wars would be a part of tech history, all related patents would be expired, of course. Also, DiffAppStore, or DAppStore, could be cool.
Historically computing has never been a processing problem, but a storage problem. Or all computing, from embedded stuff to supercomputers, pretty much seems to revolve around turning a computation bound problem into a storage bound problem, and waiting for storage to improve so you can roll out faster processors to make use of it.
Try it yourself, if you have the skills. I had a pretty decent bitslice ALU design for a relay CPU down a total of 20 relays per bit slice, not just a wimpy bare adder but a pretty full featured design complete with comparator and roller/shifter unit. An 8 bit processor is well within my entertainment budget at a couple bucks per relay, and if I package each bitslice into something the size of a ream of paper, which is probably pretty pessimistic, the entire 8 bit CPU is only about the size of a box of bulk laserprinter paper. I figured for about $500 total all costs of all parts I can get a decent reliable relay based 8 bit CPU operational.
But a couple hundred bytes of relay based ram to run some "real programs" is way outside my budget, both financial, storage, and power. Even tradeoffs don't work, like using latching relays saves me considerable (cheap) power at a cost of roughly twice as much per bit. Inevitably you get into weird dynamic electrolytic capacitor designs, strange attempts at homemade core memory... Cheating and using modern sram isn't cool. Hundreds of latching relays at lets say $5 per bit isn't gonna fly if I "need" a K or so of memory to have fun, that would be $40K just of storage relays to say nothing of the address decode logic etc. Also that would be well in excess of 8000 relays for a K of memory, vs a mere 160 relays for the processor. About 80 times bigger. So that goes from a small box sized CPU to basically a room of my house.
This has interesting MTBF implications, in that any "non-trivial" relay computer is going to mostly fight memory breakdowns, not processor failures.
To an amateur, calculating is the hard part. To a pro, storage is where the real problem lies.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
It almost seems possible that it could have been done much earlier. Automatic sources of rotary motion were known (waterwheel, steam engine) along with gearing mechanisms.
One of the first "programmable toys" was a cart controlled by a winding string
But it wasn't until the Industrial revolution in the 1850's, that the use of punched cards for storing instructions and input data that made mathematical calculating machines possible. That's one important factor. The other one is the use of mathematical notation for expressing algebra that can be converted into instructions.
What if he had got both these engines working by 1849? Would he have moved onto more advanced calculations or extended the use of mechanical computation to commerce like Hollerith punched cards did in 1889? If so, that would have advanced computing by 40 years.
First documented geared calculating mechanism (Antikythera) 150 - 100BC
First documented use of waterwheels - 300BC
First documented Steam Engine - 1AD
First use of punched cards - 1725AD
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Much as I like the steampunk concept, Babbage's machine was at the upper end of what was buildable as an expensive prototype. Bear in mind that even consistently-good, moderately priced steel wasn't available until the 1880s. That's why fine machinery was made of brass until the 20th century.
The commercial history of mechanical calculators is not what you'd expect. Leibniz built the first mechanical multiplier in 1694. The commercial version, the "Arithmometer", wasn't produced until 1851. (It took a very long time to commercialize technology before there was industrial infrastructure.) Adding machines came later, because an adding machine is only a marginal improvement over an abacus, but a multiplier is a huge win.
The first high-volume mechanical arithmetic device was the cash register. When, in 1884, cash registers first got tape printers, for the first time merchants had some real mechanical bookkeeping assistance. By then, good steel was available, and stamped parts could be made in volume. That's the point at which something like Babbage's machine might first have been a commercial success.
Which it was. Hollerith's first punched card machines were used for the 1880 census. The Computing-Tabulating-Recording Company manufactured Hollerith machines commercially. The CTR became the International Tabulating and Recording Company, which became International Business Machines, which is today's IBM.
By 1880, there was enough manufacturing infrastructure to make stuff, and there was continuous year to year progress in mechanical calculation. The peak in purely mechanical systems was probably the Burroughs Sensimatic, in 1953, which was essentially a spreadsheet program made out of gears. IBM tabulators were more advanced, but they were electromechanical.
Babbage was not "a man before his time". He didn't need more money. He didn't need a larger machine shop. He blew it!
He had the money.
The people in 1800's Britain knew a good thing when they saw it. And when small prototypes were demonstrated the British Government committed to build the difference engine. And guess what, they wanted to use it for gunnery on ships! They invested *big*. How much? One fully kited out battleship's worth. One of these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warrior_(1860) (more or less). That is a huge amount of money.
The skills were available.
Have a look at a British clock from this period. Very intricate work and at a lot smaller scale than Babbage required. Sure, what he was doing was on a large scale, but the skills and tools were out there. Indeed, Babbage teamed up with them and had the money to do it.
But he committed the cardinal sin. Babbage was forever changing the design. Yes Mr Babbage, your analytical engine idea is nice but we are paying you for the difference engine! He could not stay focused to build what was paid for and required. Falling out with the machinists capable of building it hardly helped maters. He did not deliver. As a result he blew not only his own reputation but that of the whole idea, killing it for the best part of a century. That is how bad he was.
You can be the most talented man in the world, but if you are so disorganised and uncivil that nobody wants to work for you it is all for nothing. A lesson we can all still learn form.
A Victorian computer revolution was not possible, as should be obvious to anyone who understands how computers work.
Analog Computers of which the transmission in a car is an example.
The engines they've used (basically a sphere with a couple of nozzles) had very poor efficiency. They were not really suitable for anything but simple toys. They'd have to invent a lot of new technology to make real piston steam engines. Never mind steam turbines.
That's the same problem as with Babbage's engine.
im not sure about this, but here is my initial gut reaction (based on Nazi Census by Goth and Ali, and IBM and the Holocaust by Edwin Black).
Every last Jew would have been listed in a computer somewhere. There would have been no 'mistakes'.
Renee Carmille wouldn't have been able to sabotage the Nazi census in France. There would have been no problems with supplies of nice paper to the largest punch-card user in the world - the Nazi Party bureaucracy.
Every country would have been like a souped-up version of what happened in the Netherlands, where some duty-bound bureaucrat aided the nazis by making sure that his machines performed exactly to specification.
Nobody would have been able to slip through any cracks - every last hole could have been plugged.
And all the records could have been destroyed with some simple hard-disk wipes, leaving no evidence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Difference_Engine - by Bruce Sterling and William Gibson is a fascinating and complex exploration of exactly this concept: namely that Babbage succeeded. The key historical difference - the premise of the book - is that England's backing of the American Civil War succeeded, due to cryptography in part. Towards the end of the book it's made clear that the continued war between France and England has turned "cold" and thus much effort is dedicated to sneaking obfuscated "divide by zero" algorithms into the opposing side's Difference Engines. this book is one of the only sci-fi books (out of over 500 that i've read) that i actually found it hard to understand even 50% of what was going on. still made a damn good story, though.
I think he was stuck on the many-worlds interpretation which allows for a universe to exist in which he is not a virgin in his mother's basement.
When you think about it in that context, of course anything could be possible.
Personally, I think that computing as it exists now is much like finding life in the universe similar to ours. If you think about it, so many things could have gone differently. Personal computing may have never taken off, languages could be different, etc. Imagine that the US lost World War II and you had a fascist state in which personal computing was trying to evolve. Not that hard to imagine considering that is where we are headed with legislation.....
The world of computing is in constant flux and changing from one moment to the next which is what makes it so interesting to me.
The Automatic Telephone Exchange was patented in the 1890s and was available in the 1900s. The relays could have been rewired as an electromechanical computer, as was done in 1943 on the Z3 computer .
No one thought of it.
Yes. A Victorian computer revolution was certainly possible.
For that matter, I suppose a Roman computer revolution was possible too.. Primitive, toy steam engines have been excavated from roman ruins; and there's the Antikythera that show evidence that ancient Rome was, perhaps, on the cusp of some major breakthroughs.
Imagine if Rome hadn't been sacked by the Goths. If the dark ages hadn't fallen. If we hadn't had to wait 1000+ years for the Renaissance. The industrial revolution might have taken place in 600 C.E. and we might have had a 'Roman Babbage' by 700 or 800 C.E. instead.
Then image where we'd be now.
From my study of Catholic cultural intervention (the various crusade activities) I realized that we would have had our current level of technology about 1000 years ago had they not meticulously stamped out all attempts to gather and exchange knowledge (particularly the Albigensian era). To the minds of most educated people I think this trend kicked off at the two burnings of the library of Alexandria.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
All of this is post Renaissance which is a phenomenon born of a totally different set of circumstances. Had their not been a need for the renaissance you could subtract the time between antiquity and the Renaissance that was needed to advance technology of any nature. This time subtraction amounts to about 1000 years (the dark ages).
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
The Enterprise travels back in time, assists Babbage in finishing his analytical engine, and mankind gets warp drive 150 years before Cochrane did.
In the mean time, Hitler fails to capture power in Germany, thanks to the internet.
Stalin fails to rise to power, because people are quickly informed via their phones about his actions.
etc
It would have been like the hacking game in Bioshock, derrrrr!
Given the current state of things in the US I'm not entirely sure that deserves to be in the past tense.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
I'd say the internet is much more important than the computer itself, even though a computer is needed to fuel the internet.
Global communication is what made the computer explode in terms of usefulness.
Here be signatures
hero of alexandria had him beat my about 2000 years
Not much about it has changed. In fact I'd say almost nothing changed. It's more software than hardware.
Here be signatures
But it wasn't until the Industrial revolution in the 1850's, that the use of punched cards for storing instructions and input data that made mathematical calculating machines possible. That's one important factor. The other one is the use of mathematical notation for expressing algebra that can be converted into instructions.
What if he had got both these engines working by 1849? Would he have moved onto more advanced calculations or extended the use of mechanical computation to commerce like Hollerith punched cards did in 1889? If so, that would have advanced computing by 40 years.
Yes, it would have advanced computing by about 40 years. But computing had reached a plateau in the 1940's (and arguably before then, there just wasn't any impetus to make a digital computer before WWII), and couldn't really advance any further than it had at that point until the invention of the transistor... the transistor itself arose from a chance discovery in late 1947, and wasn't readily available until the mid 1950's. Similarly, the integrated circuit wasn't available until the mid 1950's, either. In the absence of those technologies, it's arguable how far computing could have advanced beyond how far it had already advanced by the late 1940's, and neither IC's nor the transistor arose from people researching how to improve computers.
It really is debatable how far computing could have gone if Babbage had succeeded, considering that the computer revolution really didn't take off until integrated circuits made miniaturization possible in the 1960's.
The difference is that there was no popularly conceived need for such tools back then. Would you rather spend the modern equivalent of millions on a tabulating machine of some sort, or hire several accountants?
Bookkeeping wasn't nearly as complex than as it is today. There was negligible need for anything like this: society at large moved much slower, and there was time to do the basic arithmetic necessary to meet their needs. (Even today, most people don't need anything much more complex than a calculator around tax time...)
Cryptography was the first demonstrated use for modern computing (during WWII). Now, consider cryptography during the US Civil War. It basically didn't exist: they used cipher disks which utilized simple substitution ciphers and what we might today call a seed (by means of a visual or auditory cue). "Something you know and something you have". Imagine how complex, expensive, and precise the machinery needed to perform WWII-era ciphers would be if it were purely mechanical. It would also have to be fairly single-purpose.
The sad fact is, there's really little practicality to computers until you get to electronics. Even with electronics, it was a long time coming until they were practical for common use, and were only significantly used by governments and large corporations for one-off massive computation (code breaking, report generation, number crunching). The IC really was the bottleneck that needed to be beaten to make them generally practical (in terms of time and money vs. the results).
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
He would have probably created the first bug !
I am an atheist and I hate fucking atheists so much. This idea is completely ludicrous and clearly you're just some weirdo who loves blaming bad things on religion. Possibly as a child you were forced to go to Sunday School when you wanted to play video games and now this is your infantile way of striking back. Anyway keep in mind the Albigensian Crusade was less than a thousand years ago and that many scientific developments of the Roman Empire were preserved in the Indian and Arab empires. Certainly some was lost, but nowhere near a thousand years of progress. Anyway what makes you think the Cathars had loads of advanced scientific knowledge, the idea makes no sense.
The library of Alexander was mostly destroyed by Julius Caesar, and while it was partially rebuilt it slowly grew smaller and smaller over time as the Roman Empire broke down and Alexandria ceased to be the greatest city of the world. Maybe it's fun to blame it on yucky Christians but it's ahistorical.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
From my study of Catholic cultural intervention
Your knowledge of history seems pretty poor. You must have gone to public school.
Your cell phone would use gears...
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
was Renaissance the cause or the effect of advanced technology? Adaptation of arabic numerals (the technology which enabled then-modern math) was almost concurrent with Thomas Aquinas' logical "proof" of existence of God (the act which is thought to have started the Renaissance by broaching the idea that reason is above God). Since the two developments were essentially concurrent, I wouldn't credit one as more important in causality of the events that followed than the other. It is entirely possible that the technical advances is what forced social changes on society. Gauss, for example, claimed that not introducing a decimal system was Greek's greatest failure. He went so far as to suggest that Dark Ages would not have happened at all if either the Greeks or the Romans had introduced a decimal system. Before knee jerking an answer with some facts you learn in school, think twice whether the level of your own insight on what influences math and scientific development is above that of Gauss.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
He would have formed a crime-fighting team with Ada Lovelace.
No, a thousand times no. Had it not been for crusades, Europe would not have been exposed to the decimal system. Without it, Renaissance DEFINITELY would not have happened. Europe most likely would have never been able to withstand and horde and would been over-ran and seen its population reduced to ragtag tribes.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Does the prime directive mean NOTHING to you??
"I am an atheist and I hate fucking atheists so much. This idea is completely ludicrous and clearly you're just some weirdo who loves blaming bad things on religion. Possibly as a child you were forced to go to Sunday School when you wanted to play video games and now this is your infantile way of striking back."
What a bunch of prefaced bullshit, as the saying goes, "The important thing is you've found a way to feel superior to both". Congratulations!
But he committed the cardinal sin. Babbage was forever changing the design. Yes Mr Babbage, your analytical engine idea is nice but we are paying you for the difference engine! He could not stay focused to build what was paid for and required. Falling out with the machinists capable of building it hardly helped maters. He did not deliver. As a result he blew not only his own reputation but that of the whole idea, killing it for the best part of a century. That is how bad he was.
So what you're saying is, the Osborne Effect is misnamed?
YEAH, IT'S CALLED THE DIFFERENCE ENGINE by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Difference_Engine
Uhhh, computers were used to break cryptography during this era, not to actually encode/decode messages. This was done by electro-mechanical devices and most certainly did not compute anything. Read up on the enigma machine to see how it actually worked.
Soooo, I don't really see any point to anything you just said.
I am confused, what does the burning of the Library of Alexandria have to do with the Catholic Church? There are several stories of the burning of the Library of Alexandria, none of them involve the Church of Rome. The first story says that it was burned by Julius Caesar in 48 BC. The second story says that it was burned by Emperor Aurelian (who reigned before Constantine and attempted to make the Sun God the chief deity of the Roman Empire) when he put down a revolt in Egypt during his reign. The third story says that it was burned by Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria (who considered himself at least equal to the Bishop of Rome). The fourth story says that it was burned by the Muslims when they conquered Egypt.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
I'd have to disagree, although the development of computing would have certainly taken a more "leisurely" pace than what it did in the late 20th Century.
What would have happened is that computers would have been seen as these big boxes or even completely separate buildings and have been used mostly for large organizations and governments. Keep in mind that most "Information Technology" departments owe at least some of their heritage to the "high priesthood of computer technicians" where only a select few were granted access to the computers.
I'm old enough to have been alive when programmers didn't even have a terminal on their desktop. Instead they have reams of paper that they carefully wrote software character by character with a pencil and then handed out sheets of code to transcriptionists who converted those sheets of paper into punch cards.... where you might be lucky to get the results of your software test in about a day or two unless your software was a high priority project. "The computer" was a place you could visit and go inside.
The question is how long that era of computer technology would have lasted. If Babbage had succeeded in getting funding from the British government in the 19th Century to complete his devices, their utility certainly would have been obvious and many of the suggestions made in this article would have occurred. Hinted at by the author would be the driving need to develop material science much earlier than actually happened, especially with the need to develop strong and lightweight materials in an attempt to miniaturize the devices. That would have in turn impacted the British military in some rather profound ways that might have pushed them into advancing in a great many other areas of scientific research.
For instance, how would World War One (not Two) have turned out differently with artillery that had the deadly accuracy that ended up being used in the Gulf War of 1990? Would Rudolf Diesel have developed a more efficient engine having those metal parts designed for computing available for internal combustion? How much earlier would aviation had developed with lightweight metals?
It is very hard to say what would have happened. Communications would have been slower (was slower) in the 19th Century, and that would have in turn slowed the development of computing compared to what we have today... but given a hundred year head start it certainly would have impacted more than just computing.
BTW, the integrated circuit didn't become used on a widespread basis until about 1970 or so. One of the very first significant applications of the technology was the Apollo Guidance Computers used for the lunar exploration program, where NASA ended up purchasing a substantial high two-digit percentage fraction of the total world-wide production (and one of the early sources of seed money for developing the semi-conductor industry). Most of the computers built in the 1960's used either vacuum tubes or discrete transistors when they were "improved versions". It is hard to say that computing technology hit a plateau until 1970.
The Enterprise travels back in time, assists Babbage in finishing his analytical engine, and mankind gets warp drive 150 years before Cochrane did.
In the mean time, Hitler fails to capture power in Germany, thanks to the internet.
Stalin fails to rise to power, because people are quickly informed via their phones about his actions.
etc
People were informed of Stalin's actions quite well through the existing newspaper system. Most people believed accurate news of Soviet atrocities to be Capitalist propaganda until Soviet records were opened. Alleging that the USSR did anything wrong got you branded as a "reactionary", what would today be called a "neocon". Stalin originally rose to power by convincing enough people to overthrow the revolutionary Socialist government, so his rise to power began with the public support of Russians. Wider and faster access to information would not have mattered if people were predisposed against believing or caring about what they read.
The Internet might have made Hitler more successful. He already had support from desperate people looking for any leader willing to stand against Stalin. He had support from the peace movement in the US and UK which called for doing nothing to stop him. In the US, he had support from celebrities Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh. The UK's diplomatic corps were thoroughly turned to Hitler's side and advised improving trade and cultural relations with Nazi Germany would soften them; Neville Chamberlain notoriously took their advice but also built up the army against his diplomats' advice that it would be seen as a provocation. Hitler's Arabic radio broadcasts inspired Arab policy for the next sixty years and counting. Given the communications technology of the Internet, Hitler would have used it to promote his allegations of Czech atrocities against the human rights of Germans in the occupied Sudetenland, of Zionist planners promoting the West's wars for their own benefit, of rich Zionists controlling the economy and oppressing the working class, and of the Christians not in his Deutch Christen movement being Zionists and not really Christian. The Nazis were so influential without the Internet that some of these themes are still popular today. Imagine how it would be if Germany were funding Nazi activists to organize online to gain moderator control of popular websites like Wikipedia so they could ban users for arguing against any of these points.
The thing is, a room full of humans can compute also, perhaps aided by simpler mechanical calculators. Redundant calculations could be done to reduce and detect errors. Nobody has shown an economic argument for Babbage's monstrosity being that it would be damned expensive to build at the time and require lots of maintenance.
Table-ized A.I.
What if he had got both these engines working by 1849? Would he have moved onto more advanced calculations or extended the use of mechanical computation to commerce like Hollerith punched cards did in 1889? If so, that would have advanced computing by 40 years.
It could have and in fact likely would have resulted in an entirely different way of developing computers. Someone else said that materials science would have become interesting and important much earlier than it did in order to increase the speed and efficiency of mechanical computers, and I agree. I could imagine bypassing electrical computing almost entirely and instead developing nanoscale mechanical technology or something like that.
It's fascinating stuff to think about and definitely provides lots of fodder for steampunk.
Along the same lines (though I'm now wandering off-topic), I could believe that computing WAS done much earlier, though I don't think it very likely. Every now and then I start wondering if perhaps the Greeks or the Egyptians or the Mayans or someone had some computing power that is too divergent from our own for us to recognize it as such. It's an interesting thought experiment.
Your brain is not a computer.
Sure, Attila. Let me guess, not a single one of those times had anything to do with you right? Not your fault right? That's what you said last time...
neither IC's nor the transistor arose from people researching how to improve computers.
However, supposing there were mechanical computers, and they were useful; there would be an impetus to improve upon the capabilities / efficiency of the mechanical computers.
The availability of computers to scientists could have had a great effect on their studies, and it's difficult to predict what the results of that would have been.
The transistor could have been discovered a lot earlier, if inventors were looking for options, in efforts to find ways of adapting computation mechanisms into electric circuits; once all cost-effective improvements had been considered, computing would stagnate.
The transistor might have been discovered much earlier. LEDs might have been discovered, without a lightbulb ever having been invented -- Tesla might have never come to the US, AC may have not been discovered or put to practical use, even to date....
World War I and II might not have happened; because technology had a role in events leading up to them. With no real moving pictures or radio to use as propaganda tools; low-speed media communication, WWII and WWI are simply unlikely to have sparked...
With no world wars, no cold war, therefore no real investment in space travel, no NASA; no satellites, rockets, GPS, many technologies not existing.
Today, there might be no such thing as personal computers or Cell phones... no radio, no wireless communication, no television, but no PCs = no internet, just a small global network of big companies' number crunchers at most.
"...many scientific developments of the Roman Empire were preserved in the Indian and Arab empires."
Never mind the parent's accusations; it's pretty significant that knowledge had to be -preserved- during that whole time we call "the Dark Ages"... preserving implies somebody/something is trying to -destroy-. Which was definitely true. It doesn't matter who. The fact that atomic theory, steam power, who knows what else? was being discussed prior to the Church's influence, can't be ignored. I find it incredibly painful to contemplate the possibilities of humanity being held back 800+ years by stone-age superstitions.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but I think the biggest deficiency of Babbage's design was the base-10 numbering paradigm. Sure, he had the computer architecture down, to what we would now call the Von Neumann architecture, with the load, compute, store instructions. But making it all work in base-10 was incredibly messy, and I would think that is mostly why it was so difficult for him to implement.
It was not until 1854 that George Bool invented what we now call Boolean Algebra.
Boolean logic allowed us to simplify computing circuitry, improving it's efficiency and size. Take a look at this famous YouTube video, it shows a mechanical calculator built with marbles, where a marble indicates a one and no marble indicates a zero. AND and OR gates are incredibly simple lever mechanisms, and it is powered by gravity and the weight of the marbles. What if Babbage had thought to use marbles and base-2 numbering instead of gears and base-10 numbering to do computations? He couldn't have because Bool's idea had not been thought of until some 30 years after his death, and even after that, it was not until Alan Turing (120 years after Babbage) that anyone was clever enough to realize that Boolean logic, as any other logic, could be used to program a computer. Before Turing, Boolean logic was more or lest a reasoning language for testing the logical soundness of true/false propositions.
So, architecturally, Babbage was ahead of his time, and perhaps had his idea succeeded, it may have encouraged research and development leading to the use of Boolean logic in computing much earlier. But that wasn't the case. It is fun to think of what may have happened though: we may have seen immense computing factories powered by mills which lifted grounded marbles into a giant bin above the factory, and all of that weight would filter through the mechanisms of the computer to produce results. Such a thing would have been unbearably noisy, but fast, simple, easily reparable, and effective. And it would have continued that way until someone thought of using electrical charges instead of marbles.
In all, I think if Babbage's design had succeeded, it may have made the computer revolution happen 30 or 40 years earlier, in which case, I would have been born in the the mostly ignorant generation of kids comprising the social-networking and internet revolution, and not in the more down-to-earth generation of 8-bit gaming, Q-BASIC and assembler-programming, personal computer revolution folk.
The library of Alexander was mostly destroyed by Julius Caesar, and while it was partially rebuilt it slowly grew smaller and smaller over time as the Roman Empire broke down and Alexandria ceased to be the greatest city of the world.
Actually, scholarly opinion is divided, so don't take it as established fact. The available evidence is ambiguous and rarely first-hand or unbiased, so it's likely to remain controversial.
The fire set by Caesar's troops among the Egyptian navy vessels spread onshore, but only into the port of Alexandria. Many thousands of "books" were burned in the port as a result, but most of them were commercial ledgers and suchlike. The Great Library was not in the port, and likely was relatively unscathed by this fire.
A better case can be made that the Library was destroyed during Emperor Aurelian's conflict with Queen Zenobia, which actually did devastate the requisite part of the city. Of course, being a repository of flammable materials (papyri) with lighting by candles and oil lamps, occasional fires at the Library probably reduced their holdings from time to time.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
We could be exploring the Galaxy by now.
Upward mobility is a slippery slope - the higher you climb the more you show your ass.
A Victorian computer revolution? OMG! I would have never heard of porn.
Yup , I remember the mainframes.. in fact, I remember learning 'computer code" before there were any real programming languages.. no wonder I changed carreers.. just *try* to imagine programming in binary for a minute..
Actually, more like 700 years: http://www.damninteresting.com/the-phantom-time-hypothesis/
Imagine how complex, expensive, and precise the machinery needed to perform WWII-era ciphers would be if it were purely mechanical. It would also have to be fairly single-purpose.
You mean, like the Enigma machine? Remarkably simple code... breakable with sufficient processing, or with improper use of the protocols, it's true. However, for all intents and purposes it required a highly-specialized bank of mechanical computers to break the code, and it generally took quite a while if the encryption was being used properly.
Wouldn't that have been noticed since we now have records from places like China, Japan, India, Persia... Nothing to see here. Just another crackpot.
AC is really a stepping stone, as far as power distribution technology goes. The need for it is only when you don't have electronics with enough power-handling capability to partake in power distribution. Transformers working at 50 or 60Hz are monsters, pretty much. Without those transformers, there'd be no need for AC in power distribution. You can make more efficient switching power converters that are comparably tiny. You can push a couple megawatts through a ferrite ring fitting on a sheet of letter size paper. A 200A step-down converter that could power a typical American single family house would fit in a briefcase, with radiator fins sticking out of course (no air cooling and dust mites, thankyouverymuch).
I have a system that takes a bunch of 5kVA isolation transformers. A switching power converter that stands in for one of those transformers fits mostly on your palm. The incoming AC is a pain to deal with, because at those power levels you need to have power factor correction (PFC), and that's just an extra that lowers efficiency only because you need to pretend to be a resistive load to the incoming 50/60Hz sine voltage. If we had DC power distribution, there would be no need for PFC, no need for huge transformers. DC power distribution was a good idea, but pretty much ahead of its time -- useless without fairly complex electronics know-how. Design and testing of switching power supplies needs good instrumentation (wideband differential amps and current probes, storage oscilloscopes, ...). At high power levels you need to build instrumentation into your product, because you can't really test a power converter taking 50kV at the input with the case open and sitting on your desk.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
It still is being held back. Just look at how much time politicians waste on discussing abortion, same sex marriage, etc.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
I had heard that part of his problem was the accurate machining required to manufacture his designs. His designs for the machines were based on base-10 number system so the gears had to have at least 10 states, but what if he had thought to use binary numbers. The gearing would have been simplified immensely and probably could have been made with the technology of the times.
This was similar to the insight that was made in early computers to use only 2 electrical states instead of 10 states, this of course turned out to be a wonderful decision.
No matter the advances, I think we would still be exactly where we are today with computing. I don't think it's so much the technology as the average level of intelligence of the general populace.
It really wasn't until the early 1900's that kids weren't out working in their parents fields but were attending schools.
What good would a computing device have been to an illiterate person?
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
I fail to see how aviation could have been helped by this technology. Computing has nothing to do with metallurgy (you mentioned lighter metals).
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
First documented geared calculating mechanism (Antikythera) 150 - 100BC
The Antikythera was more like a calendar than a calculator. While some sensationalists like to call it the "world's first computer", that is a huge exaggeration.
The fact is that Babbage's machines were incredibly complex for his time. Even Babbage himself realized that his analytical engine couldn't be built, so instead of trying to build itr he started to work on manufacturing techniques that would allow the construction of some of its parts. The machine would have many points of failure, would have required parts more precise that were available, would have to tolerate the huge forces necessary to operate it (in the original plan it was driven by a steam engine as a human wouldn't be strong enough for it) and would have to survive te wear of all the mechanical parts. Even with modern technology, while there were attempts to recreate the machine, none of them succeeded.
But even if it has been built, it would most likely be just a neat toy, maybe one that could make a few tables more precise. It wouldn't advance computing by much. You see, the drive behind the evolution of computing was exponential growth in the machines' capabilities, which would be impossible with mechanical engines. Even with that, we have had computers since the forties, yet widespread use of them haven't begun since the nineties. The limits were technological and sociological, computer science was pretty well established by the time. A good idea alone will not start a revolution, if the technology or the society isn't ready for it yet.
The computer devices that Babbage designed were mechanical, not digital. If those had caught on, someone would have put effort into reducing the size of those computer devices, especially if they were games that might need a little portability. lighter metals also require less energy to move, and keep moving. Smaller, lighter, faster mechanical machines require lighter, stronger metals. Strangely enough, so do mechanical devices that are intended to fly.
If lighter and stronger materials had been available when aviation was in it's infancy, it's quite probable that flight technology would have progressed faster, since aircraft wouldn't weigh as much.
So in the context of this situation, computing has a lot to do with metallurgy.
I read some old books from the 1950's on how they arranged offices, rows and columns of tables of clerks to do the calculating of sub-totals, totals and check-totals just to do the accounting .
Socially, a clerk was one of the safest jobs in the South of England. Live out in the Home Counties, take one of Brunel's trains into London, and work as a clerk from 9 to 5.
Before any kind of automated mechanical technology, a "computer" was a person who did computations, and it was a home-based industry. Papers were sent out to the person, who did the arithmetic and then sent the results back to the sender.
There was a need by the Navy for the automatic calculation of tide tables - resulting in the foundation of signal processing and http://co-ops.nos.noaa.gov/predma2.html">Tide Predicting machines . Astronomers used orrery's starting in the 18th century.
Very true about the IC - it wasn't until those first 8-bit home computers came out, that anyone could do pure programming at home - unless they wanted to assemble an electronics kit.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
It kicked off the Steam punk fiction in the 1990's "The Difference Engine" by William Gibson (of cyber-punk fame) and Bruce Sterling
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Difference_Engine
AC is really a stepping stone, as far as power distribution technology goes.
Even so... the basic notion here is if scientists were playing around with semiconductors first, and discovered LEDs, photovoltaics, and batteries before lightbulbs... there's a good chance local power generators could have become king, and the concept of power grids and wires for distributing power across long distances never coming into being.
Because long electrical cables are really really expensive. The infrastructure build out was massive, and resulted only from the popularity and efficiency of lightbulbs.
As we know... arrays of LEDs can be built to generate light much more efficiently, as long as you can obtain the proper materials; a household with 5 1 watt LED arrays has microscopic power requirements compared to a household with 5 15 watt electric lightbulbs.
Below a certain amount of wattage; the concept of municipal distribution simply doesn't make any sense from an efficiency perspective; just use a local solar collector for each block.....
I agree. A "small" solar panel goes quite a long way when your needs are measured in tens of watts. All of that presumes that heating and cooking could be powered with natural gas. I also don't think that small solar panels are enough to provide forced air circulation, you'd need hydronics for heating, and the only way to cool single family homes then is to use forced air circulation and a zig-zagging subterranean duct.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Yes... it's true.. low wattage is fairly inept for cooking especially, and limited for forced air.
However, electricity was not originally used for cooking, refrigeration, or air conditioning. Light bulbs were the application that really got the technology deployed.
Electric ovens and heaters were incremental additions that came over 20 years after the 1st commercial lightbulbs.
These were incremental additions and additional revenue streams the electric company made possible by infrastructure that was being built to provide lights; electrical lighting that was safer and had many obvious benefits over oil lamps and candles...
electrical heating, not so much.
At the time of electricity being introduced, popular heating and cooking technology already existed that wasn't dependent upon electricity, and an electric oven or heater would have been a very expensive investment for households, as a 1st introduction to electricity.
It would be a suggestion that everyone would suddenly go throw out their gas powered stove, in favor of purchasing a brand new electric one at great cost, so they could try the latest tech?
Electric heating and cooking would have been a much harder sell to justify the buildout of an electrical distribution system... the equipment cost would be prohibitive to the average person, without clear benefit, probably resulting in few buyers, and no positive ROI for the power company.
Now later concepts, such as automatic coffee pots, vacuum cleaners, power tools, electric well pumps, could persuade a corporation to fund a build out in the absence of lights.
But would those things have been commercialized if not for the snowball started by lightbulbs?
We might have some brilliant thermal isolation, low-wattage heating, refrigeration, and cooking technology that is completely unknown to us humans, today, or one of those clean / safe reactor / fuel cell technologies that lets every house be its own power plant :)
It means as much to me as it did to Star Trek writers...i.e. nothing.
However, electricity was not originally used for cooking, refrigeration, or air conditioning. Light bulbs were the application that really got the technology deployed.
That's true. In some countries, paying an electricity bill is still called "paying for light".
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.