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Boxee 1.5 Will Be the Last Supported Desktop Version
DeviceGuru writes with excerpts from the article: "Boxee released [a beta of] version 1.5 of its free multimedia streaming software for Mac, Windows, and Linux desktops today, but simultaneously announced that it will cease offering the Boxee desktop software after January. Thereafter, the company will limit its focus to devices such as the D-Link Boxee Box, which faces stiff competition from multimedia streaming TV set-top-box products such as the Roku players, Google TV, and Apple TV. Hopefully, the XBMC project, on which Boxee's software is largely based, will carry the ball forward for desktop users. Speaking of which, the first preview release of XBMC 11.0 Eden was just released."
Maybe Google's acquisition of Motorola will present a GoogleTV DVR Box? The next step must be apps that control the actual TV channel control.
Discuss.
I think there's a patent on it.
Time to move to XBMC.
However, if they actually DO update Boxee for Linux it will be the first time in a long time. They haven't even bothered for a while.
As someone who currently owns a bricked Boxee Box, I'm somewhat pleased they're finally focusing on just the Boxee Box, because that thing seriously needs some love. It was really cool for the first month or so when it worked, but the forced firmware updates brick Boxee Boxes left and right (according to the forums). The browser is absolutely terrible and isn't supported by Hulu, the "mouse" on the remote is one of the worst things I've ever used (try using arrow keys to move one pixel at a time).
They have a lot of work to do if they want to be in the media center market.
Dozens.
you mean something like http://cetoncorp.com/products/infinitv-4-pcie/ ? record up to 4 HD channels at once if you have a cable card from your cable tv provider
As far as I can tell, the InfiniTV 4 PCIe only works on Windows (7). I remember reading somewhere that the drivers for these kind of devices won't be released for anything else to protect the content - or some such crap. Did something change?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
I can't be the only person that thought of this.
I just recently started using Plex when we bought a new LG TV that happened to have a built-in Plex client - and I must say it's pretty slick. So, even with Boxee, it would seem like there are still going to be readily available free options for people.
People don't cycle through televisions all that quickly, but with smart TV functionality becoming more prevalent it's probably just a matter of time before all these add-on boxes die off. Heck, even my beloved Tivo became a lot less interesting after we bought the TV - we still use the basic DVR functionality, but all the "value added" features (e.g. Netflix, Pandora, home media viewing) became redundant. The TV itself offers them now - and it does them better.
#DeleteChrome
Well nice going Boxee, you've just alienated THE MAJORITY OF YOUR FANBASE that ignore the expensive glorified trinkets w/ HDMI cables sticking out of them in favor of self-built microATX, laptop, or straight-up desktop setups. Either way, perhaps something better will come out of it. IIRC Boxee used entirely different backends for each platform...
Google TV sucks. Roku is now considered the worst (of the stables ... Google TV is still the king as sucking), AppleTV is limited.
So who is the competition?? If I were to name competition, I would say that the Western Digital and ALL of their models of multimedia devices.
has quite a bit of control over the cable card / cable box market and they like renting boxes and cable cards many times over there cost and like to keep very old boxes still out there working not only that they have the same GUI as the newer HD boxes and have the same channel map as the HD boxes. Now some of that must be holding back the newer HD boxes in some ways.
Support for the ceton card was recently added to mythtv (trunk). So there's work on it.
And the HDHomeRun Prime has worked with linux since day one. So has the DCR-something or other from Hap-screw-their-shitty-name.
The only restriction is DRM Encumbered channels. If you're on Time Warner Cable - that's all of them. If you're on comcast, it's just the premiums (hbo, cinemax, showtime, starz, encore). If you're on verizon fios, I read that everything is marked as Copy Freely - so no DRM to deal with.
well mac os x is about the only other system that may pass cable lab's / the cable CO DRM rules and then there is the lack of systems other then the mac pro with pci-e slots and apples lack of the os sub systems to make the DRM work. Now apple could have a Apple tv with cable card but then they will also need have working USB for SDV systems to use a add on tuner.
So?
You are welcome on my lawn.
I have openelec (a derivative of XBMC made to "just work") on an Acer Aspire Revo 3700 and a MediaGate GP-IR02BK remote control.
Everything works excellent. Have two copies of it, and may buy a third.
Well the cable co's f* up cable card there used to be quite a few tv's with it but now I think alot of old one's can't do SDV makeing them some what useless in some systems.
Also getting the cable co have a cable guy / phone people who know about cable cards is very hit or miss and then some times it's odd stuff like some times the cable card is not setup up in right node / headend or other odd issues that the cable co boxes that have cable cards don't seem to have or it seems the phone people just don't know how to stuff they can do with cable boxes..
Still the best! Nothing, but nothing matches Myth's client server model. And it is rock solid!
This is device will only work on Infinity Cable (formerly known as Comcast).
XBMC is some really great software, I'm glad support has lasted this long. It's what I use on my TV PC, it's easy to setup, and does exactly what it's supposed to do. It's got some great plugins that allow live streaming from various sources, supports any format I've thrown at it, it's a DLNA server, supports various network protocols for indexing and streaming, supports many remote control devices, it's available for all major OSes and works great on all platforms. I'm extremely happy with it.
Twinstiq, game news
I spend $100 a month for basic cable card rental and service from Time Warner Cable in NY. I spent over $400 to buy lifetime service for a new HD TiVo. There's still nothing on.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain with all your metadata.
No, I can't understand why I should care.
You are welcome on my lawn.
What a load of archaic obsolete crap. What they meant to say is that it faces competition from actually useful products such as the WD TV Live (as well as half a dozen of other things like it which are about as good). The very idea of such narrowly limited stuff as Apple TV or Roku being the real competition -- I want to say it's over a decade out of date but I'll admit it's truly only a couple years out-of-date, due to how badly the tech lagged and stagnated.
Nevertheless the stagnation did eventually end. If Boxee thinks of Google TV being the competition, they are fighting 200x's battle and will fade into obscurity. Good bye, Boxee.
So now what hackable devices should I be recommending my friends buy?
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
Digital Restriction Management indeed...
DRM is the reason Netflix isn't available o Linux.
DRM takes the customer as the enemy so there can't be FOSS DRM. (pirates don't suffer from DRM)
DRM hardware chips enable device makers to leverage the free work of the FOSS community without actually giving anything back.
Without allowing people to use their computer as they want.
DRM hardware is what enables TiVos and Roku boxes to function.
I have no doubt DRM hardware is the reason Boxee is leaving desktop users out in the cold.
DRM is the reason XBMC can't play blueray discs or Netflix.
It's the reason device makers manage to monopolise the market, by rising the cost for small players and making it impossible to play nice for independent and home-made players.
Without DRM there would be a revolution in Media players and Media Centers, In fact there is already one, it's just either illegal or nearly frozen.
Ultimately DRM attacks the wrong end of the distribution chain. IDIOTS! I WANT TO PAY FOR THIS STUFF, what are you afraid I might do with your stream? Post it online? There is no need! IT IS ALREADY ONLINE! I can stream it from anywhere in the world into the very same media center you don't want me to use to consume your damn service.
Imbecile Mother Fuckers.
But... the future refused to change.
No, I can't understand why I should care.
Ok. SInce you don't dispute they would be a problem for Google, that saves us a lot of time ...
The original question, to which you replied, was: "Maybe Google's acquisition of Motorola will present a GoogleTV DVR Box?"
The objection was raised that such an item is (already) patented. You say "So?".
The answer to the question you cared enough to ask, is that Google producing something is not like your personal use of that thing. Chances are, no one trying to enforce intellectual property law is going to find out about any patents and/or copyrights you violate. Google, on the other hand, releases things on a publically-visible scale. If they openly violate a law, the wrong people are going to notice it.
So, that means either a cost for licenses or extreme legal liability for Google. Both are disincentives to use patented technology if alternatives are available. Got it?
Put a cablecard into any mATX case (there are several that look like TiVos) along with win 7 HP and tada! Easy Peasy. Windows media center frankly kicks ass as a DVR, I've been running my cable into it since Oct 09 and its as simple and easy as one can get. I can tell it to record a show or record a series with a single click, it automatically downloads two weeks worth of scheduling and keeps itself updated (I have mine set to 7AM, it turns the PC on from sleep, updates and then goes back to sleep) and makes it butt simple with homegroups to share with the rest of my machines.
So just do it yourself friend, it couldn't be simpler. modern boards come with fricking pictures so you don't even have to Habla English to put together a PC, there are plenty of nice mATX cases that are perfect for HTPCs, you can use one of the new AMD E-350 boards (which last I checked are like $90 from Newegg) if you want it ultra low power with hardware decode or for $10-$15 more depending on which HSF you choose you can get a Phenom I quad ( just go to Starmicro.net and pick one out) for $55 and an AM2+ board is beyond cheap. then just load it out any way you like with regards to RAM and HDD, hell if you don't mind a standard black case (I've built a couple of them and they look quite nice in a slot in the entertainment center and most of the customers i'd found would rather have more power than a baby case) you can go nuts and get a 6 core for $300 after rebate with everything you'll need and more than enough power to transcode any format you wish. You could even slap in a cheap refurb HD4830 or HD4850 along with the wireless X360 controller and make a pretty kick ass game machine. I have a customer that went that route and all his friends just drool when he fires up Batman:AA or Just Cause II on that fat 50 inch TV. Go DIY and you save a ton and can have it YOUR way with what YOU want.
As for TFA....uhhh....who cares? XBMC isn't going anywhere, and you also have MediaPortal and of course WMC to go along with it, so it isn't like we don't have a wealth of choices here. If anything I'd say its never been easier to go HTPC, there is a ton of software, you can get cases in any shape and style, if you stick with AMD you can get insane horsepower for dirt cheap, for those of us that want to use our PCs for TVs or DVRs life is good.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I was under the impression that the Boxee Box was going to be an open platform only to find out that it wasn't so I sold it about a month later and got two AppleTV2's, for the same price and installed XBMC on them. I've never been happier with this combo. ATV2 is just enough hardware to play 720p smoothly which is all I want. You don't need 1080p unless you have a 60" set and you're watching it within 8 feet which I don't. http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html It uses about 8 Watts, has 8GB of solid state versus the 1GB on the Boxee Box. Content metadata, playback settings and thumbnails are all stored in a central location along with all my media. I can also watch my PVR content because of the MythTV support. I haven't seen any media centre come close to doing what XBMC does.
ayottesoftware.com
I tried out several software suites for my HTPC and ultimately ended up with XBMC.
There's enough free content that if you're a casual TV watcher you can get away without it. There's a "free cable" plugin that pulls in a bunch of channels, along with hulu free (of course, who knows how long that will exist).
I use amazon prime to get all the "free" prime movies/shows and that is another ton of content.
Unfortunately blockbuster isn't working but I believe Netflix does on windows ( don't have that ). It's silverlight.
There are tons of handy plugins. Anything from adult plugins (pr0n) to academic earth.
I drive it all from my harmony remote, audio passthrough through video hdmi out to receiver.
Once I get mythtv going to record football I'm going to (finally) cancel comcast. I hope that one day HBO / Showtime will smarten up and offer modular monthly subscriptions, instead of requiring you use a federated login based on your cable/dish provider. Lame.
XBMC is flexible/hackable enough to make me happy since I can make most anything work, but presents media simply enough my computer illiterate girlfriend can drive it all. Win.
I'll bite - why is the WD TV Live that much better than the Apple TV?
I've been casting around for a solution with only three requirements:
1) Has to be easy enough for my mom to use (since she will be the one I'm installing this for).
2) Has to play Netflix.
3) Has to record OTA HD streams.
The sad thing is, nothing at all meets all criteria. The Boxee came really close with the new plugin module that lets you watch LIVE OTA HD through a Boxee, but those idiots decided that no-one would be interested in recording anything to external storage, so they are only "thinking" about support for that.
Boxee could be the real cable-cutter for a lot of people with the simple ability to record sports games OTA, at least to let you rewind during the game... but instead they've chosen to be just like any other box.
I looked at the WD TV Live, and while the support for lots of formats is nice it's irrelevant in a world where most video is h.264. What does it really do better than an Apple TV besides that?
The thing the AppleTV brings to the table for someone wanting a simple solution is iTunes integration, where a LOT of people have media stored now... it's hard to ignore how easy it is to make use of that.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The competition from Google TV must be particularly stiff: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/11/11/11/1822240/logitech-calls-google-tv-a-big-mistake
I used to use XBMC on Xbox. Switched to Boxee on a Mac Mini a couple of years ago.
If Boxee's dead what next? I actually liked Boxee (thought not the bugs)
Every time I try XBMC it dies or is missing features. I just downloaded it right now (v 10.1 for OSX). I like several of the Boxee Apps (ted, vimeo, escapist, ...) so I download the Ted app for XBMC. I run it. First thing I notice. It's not nearly has nice as the Boxee app. Simple list, no descriptions, no style. I click the first link, XBMC is now locked. It's been locked for 10 minutes now.
So, I'm sad to hear that boxee is going away. It's pretty clearly better than XBMC for my use cases at least.
Features I'm hoping for in whatever replaces Boxee no particular order
1) Shows Facebook new stream youtube videos (boxee does this on home screen)
Does XBMC have this built in or as an add on as slick as Boxee? Note: Picking some model script it NOT the solution
2) Has nice skinned apps to major sites (on boxee I use Ted, The Big Picture, Vimeo, The Escapist, Pandora and a few other apps)
are there good skinned apps in XBMC?
3) Has FULL Samba client support built in
Full = works with passwords XBMC has this. Not sure any of the other solutions do.
4) Has instant FF and REV
XBMC has this. Popcorn hour does not. Not sure about others but if I can't skip around in my media fast it's not a solution for me.
5) Has "post" to social media features throughout
I like being able to watch a video on youtube or vimeo in Boxee and click "Loved" and have that posted to Facebook.
6) Supports all the same formats or more
Both XBMC and Boxee support a lot of formats. Lots of other solutions I've tried support less. Of course supporting more would be good. I have to switch out of XBMC for certain types of files.
7) Can be controlled smoothly with an Apple 6 button remote
Boxee did this well. XBMC not so sure. Others? My Popcorn hour sucks here. Their remote has ton of buttons and its not responsive
8) Handles non English
Neither old XBMC nor Boxee were all that good here. Basically you had to configure them, copy in new fonts and other BS. Maybe current XBMC handles this?
9) Auto downloads subtitles
Boxee does this. I didn't see it in my 5 minute test of current XBMC (after I force closed it from the lock above)
I'm sure there's a lot more. Calls above that Boxee sucks, XBMC rules don't seem to fit with my experience though. XBMC is fine at playing already downloaded movies but I haven't had much luck with XBMC providing all the other features I loved in Boxee.
Is there something else that comes closer?
. If you're on comcast, it's just the premiums (hbo, cinemax, showtime, starz, encore).
Are you sure? I admit I'm a bit confused over the whole damn thing (I don't really watch enough TV to have followed the specifics, and SD has been good enough for most of it).
Since Comcast is going full digital in my area "soon" (they haven't nailed it down yet, but they're giving away the free mini-box things), I decided to do the only test I could think of to see if putting a digital tuner in my Mythbox would make a difference: I did a scan with my (supposedly) digital-ready LCD TV. The only digital channel I received was the "guide" channel, sans overlay (I assume that comes from the STB). I assume that's call I'd get with a digital tuner/capture card, too, right?
The primary reason Boxee is dropping PC support is because they are not getting much traction there. Not on the PC and likely not much anywhere else outside of /.
Will not abandon users for corporate gold like the Boxee goofballs.
I hope the Boxee guys dont think they can go closed source, 90% of their product is XBMC still under there. they need to rewrite all of that before they can go the corperate overlord route.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I don't think you can call the Google TV "stiff competition". It was a complete flop.
Everything parent said but with a recommendation for an Atom+ION. These things really kickass.
I'm sorry, you seem nice enough, and earnest, but I still don't see why I should care if Google is prevented from bringing a "GoogleTV DVR Box" to market.
First, it's not like Google is really known for its consumer electronics. Second, I bet something nicer could be built from open source tools, giving the big fungoo to the patent system entirely. Maybe it could be built into the case of a Sony Playstation 3 just so a video can be put online to piss off those jerks as an added bonus.
You are welcome on my lawn.
why is DRM bad?
I understand the technical limitations it imposes on various groups
Digital restrictions management is bad because of "the technical limitations it imposes on various groups". As each new locked-down device comes out, we inch closer to the dystopia that was considered unthinkable in 1997.
without DRM, content (in general) will be forced to go down in price
"Content" makes works of authorship sound like mere things to fill a box.
And considering that the creation of content is a real investment (i.e. cost) what would be the incentive to create it
What was the incentive to create the short film Sintel?
I've been VERY interested in an Internet based set-top box solution for many years now. As someone who likes movies a lot, but DOESN'T watch almost any network TV (sitcoms, reality TV episodes, cop/crime dramas, etc.), I've never gotten my money's worth paying for monthly cable or satellite subscriptions. I do, however, already have a fast broadband connection that I use enough to justify its monthly expense. Therefore, one of these boxes and a cheap subscription to something like Netflix streaming would appear to be ideal.
Unfortunately, whether it's XBMC, Boxee, AppleTV, or you-name-it? ALL of the current solutions are incomplete, primarily because the broadcasters and movie industry still isn't ready to fully embrace the digital age. As much as we all like to slam the recording industry for their backwards ways, it's an odd fact that they're probably the first of the bunch to come to grips with reality and co-operate with the change to digital media distribution. (Heck, they even want to give the late Steve Jobs a Grammy for iTunes!) Right now, the book publishers, for example, are years behind the record labels -- still fighting to keep public libraries from lending out some of their material via e-readers, pricing periodicals downloaded digitally at too high a price, snubbing authors who opt to publish digitally with companies like Amazon, etc. etc.
The movie and broadcast industry are in a similar place ... still desperately clinging onto a dying business model. The public wants/expects on-demand streaming of the video content they'd like to watch, when they want to view it. The industry wants/expects viewers to go out and purchase the content one show or movie at a time on physical plastic platters (DVDs), or alternately, to pay monthly for pre-selected content to constantly stream in over a cable or satellite link and artificial limitations be placed on the recording or copying of said content.
Until this changes, we keep seeing a cat and mouse game; networks trying to block the viewing of their available web content when using a GoogleTV, constant update patches required for Plex so it can continue to "scrape" popular web sites for info on downloaded movies or TV shows properly, artificial limitations placed on which devices can and can't view Hulu's content, etc.
In fact, I heard rumors that the AppleTV even had to deal with a Netflix vs. Hulu spat where Apple was forced to pick one, because they refused to BOTH be offered as options on the unit together.
I can understand Boxee's move, if they really feel they can make the Boxee box a better product by focusing strictly on it, vs. trying to support all sorts of other misc. PC hardware out there. But it's a risky move, IMO, from the standpoint that competitors like Plex seem to offer essentially all of the same functions and features, but are working deals so they come pre-installed on new TV sets out of the box, as well as $5 software downloads for GoogleTV bases products AND free downloads for Macs or PCs. What can Boxee do to differentiate themselves enough so people will still buy their proprietary set-top box?
Comcast routinely scrambles non-premium channels. When they went digital here, we lost everything except local broadcast, and even some of the local broadcast disappeared. The channels ARE there, but they're scrambled, so the digital-cable-ready TVs just lock them out. Can only watch them through a converter... which is incredibly STUPID!
The E-350 is on average 25% cheaper while getting 30% more performance so there really isn't a reason to go atom + ION anymore. Intel really slit their own throats by hamstringing Nvidia to the point they got out of the chipset business. For those that don't know there will be NO chipset updates from Nvidia, no new chips, what you see is what you get. nearly their entire line is so out of date they don't support NCQ which means you are slowing down your drives by using ION, as new versions of Windows come out I seriously doubt they'll be spending hardly any money on QA for a line that is dead so you are looking at no drivers or shoddy drivers, meanwhile the new AMD E-Series have Radeon 6310 chips with full support for decoding every popular format in use today.
So I'm sorry friend but atom is history for HTPCs. the ONLY reason they get any score at all is from rigging the benches with their ICC cripple code which as one reviewer on a new netbook I was looking at said "For some reason the Atom seems to score highly on the benches, better than the E-350, but real world usage just doesn't bear the numbers out" yeah that is because they might as well call the benches quack.exe for all the use they are now!
But the new AMD E-Series gives you more graphics power, more memory (Atom is usually limited to 2Gb or 4Gb by Intel to cripple it compared to Celeron while the AMD E-series supports 8Gb-16Gb) and an out of order CPU with VM support for less money. The only thing Atom is good for is those $60 bottom of the line boards that make okay office boxes, nothing more. ION thanks to Intel's cutting off Nvidia's access is a dead end system simply being sold for as long as someone will give them a buck for it, but no new investments in the platform will be made. its a dead end, not worth wasting money on.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I've owned a BoxeeBox for nearly 1.5yrs now and a there are a few remaining issues which keep it from being great. And that's more a compliment than a bitch... As one who is more interested in a solution for Locally-stored Content (say, 80% local and 20% other), it's pretty good, no doubt, and almost does everything I need. Almost. So please, D-Link, take this opportunity to get it together and FINISH the BoxeeBox. What you/we have now is analogous to a Beta release, at best. Fix the known issues, add the most requested features - and I'd buy 2 more for home, and would've given away two more for Christmas (I gave away to Roku boxes instead).
I looked at the linked chart and they are basing it on "with 20/20 vision it is possible to resolve 1/60th of a degree of an arc". Maybe I just have better than 20/20 vision with my glasses, but the quality difference between 720p and 1080p on a 47" at 14 feet is quite obvious to me. I will admit that 720p on my 52" still looks quite nice and I'm putting off on a 1080p upgrade because of it.
Very informative and useful review. Thanks. One addition/question:
LG Smart TV Upgrader (Sony and several other companies sell identical devices)
Are they really identical? I know when it comes to TVs and disc players embedding network media features, there is quite a bit of variation. Certainly I've discovered that Sony's streaming implementation is subpar on their TVs and disc players. Their Hulu client, in particular, is obnoxiously bad. Each program segment and advertisement is streamed separately, so there's a major pause for buffering at the end of each. You can't fast-forward or rewind across segments. And it doesn't remember where you left off for resuming later. The UI may be polished, but ultimately it's a polished turd.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
I want a unified interface for everything. So far no winners.
For my PVR use (yes, some content is still only gettable that way *and* the quality is much better than even 'HD' streams from Netflix and such, while they may hit good resolution the more critical issue of bitrate is still necessarily low), Roku just does nothing for that at all. MythTV is about the best I've found for this, but does poor in all other areas. Xbmc Eden promises better support and I still need to try it. Plex does nothing for this use case too.
For downloaded media, Roku officially does nothing and the unofficial efforts are pretty inadequate when compared to the likes of Plex and XBMC.
For streaming, Roku is pretty much the best (Plex purports to be decent, but they just embed the video player from a browser and last I tried had *no* way of controlling)
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Popcorn hour is what you want.
WDTV is close, but Popcorn hour plays everything, well, almost everything. In 3 years, I found one video that had an odd audio codec so no sound.
If you don't get the popcorn hour, you're pretending you made the right choice.