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Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Joe_Dragon · 2012-01-03 15:13 · Score: 4, Interesting

Under that they have to prove that the 3rd party software broke the phone. Just in a car they can't just you put in a 3rd party radio in and say the engine warranty is void.

Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by exomondo · 2012-01-03 15:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

Under that they have to prove that the 3rd party software broke the phone. Just in a car they can't just you put in a 3rd party radio in and say the engine warranty is void.
The radio doesn't control the engine though, so obviously replacing the radio isn't going to void the engine warranty.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Joe_Dragon · 2012-01-03 15:27 · Score: 3, Informative

It all goes back to a law enacted in the 1970s that allows you, the automobile owner, the freedom to choose where and by whom you have your car serviced, all without voiding the car's warranty. So replace CAR serviced with source for apps. As under that law you can go to jiffy lube or any other place for a oil change and not be forced to go to the dealer.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by exomondo · 2012-01-03 15:28 · Score: 1, Insightful

I'm not saying your point is false, I'm pointing out that your analogy is false.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by DragonTHC · 2012-01-03 15:29 · Score: 5, Insightful

if you want to use a car analogy, use one that fits.
If you flash the rom on your ECM and your car stops working, you've voided your warranty.

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They're using their grammar skills there.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Moryath · 2012-01-03 15:30 · Score: 4, Insightful

And yet the car companies have found ways around this.
One way was, they went to the reporting computers, but refused to release (even for a proper market rate cost) specs and reading programs that would allow the 3rd party service companies to interact with them. So when the 60,000 mile "service engine soon" lie-light came on, if you wanted it to go off, you HAD to pay the dealership a $100 "analysis fee."
Another way is how Volkswagen works. They simply refuse to sell parts to the 3rd party market, anywhere, and maintain control of certain things (brake pads in the 2008 Rabbit come to mind) with sensor chips "protected by copyright."
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Joe_Dragon · 2012-01-03 15:34 · Score: 0

what if you flash the in car DVD system to region free they have to prove that broke the car.
Also they can't say you can only use shell gas and they said you got BP gas and that broke your car.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by exomondo · 2012-01-03 15:38 · Score: 1

what if you flash the in car DVD system to region free they have to prove that broke the car.
If you then have a non-functioning in-car DVD system then that wouldn't be covered under warranty, if you then have a cracked head then clearly that has nothing to do with flashing the in-car DVD system so that would be covered under warranty.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Mistlefoot · 2012-01-03 16:06 · Score: 4, Interesting

Per the Magnuson - Moss Warranty Act: "The statute is remedial in nature and is intended to protect consumers from deceptive warranty practices. Consumer products are not required to have warranties, but if one is given, it must comply with the Magnuson-Moss Act."

So your arguement could be invalidated by "warranty is not given if you change the bios".

This is not much different then a warranty being voided by the sticker being removed (as when a laptop is taken apart).
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by AmberBlackCat · 2012-01-03 16:07 · Score: 4, Interesting

Replacing the firmware in a car can cause mechanical failure though, perhaps by causing a transmission to shift gears at the wrong time and strip a gear or making the engine rev too high. Replacing the firmware in a phone isn't going to make an antenna melt or crack the screen. If a hardware component fails that can't be due to a programming error, they shouldn't be able to get out of it by saying "the phone was unlocked".
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by TheInternetGuy · 2012-01-03 16:16 · Score: 5, Funny

The radio doesn't control the engine though, so obviously replacing the radio isn't going to void the engine warranty.
That's just not true, any self respecting slash doter would hook their cruise control up to the BPM counter of the Audio system. And then they would pre-calculate a play list which will result in the required speed trough out the planned route.

--
If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by exomondo · 2012-01-03 16:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

Replacing the firmware in a phone isn't going to make an antenna melt or crack the screen. If a hardware component fails that can't be due to a programming error, they shouldn't be able to get out of it by saying "the phone was unlocked".
Cracked screens aren't usually covered under warranty, but firmware can damage components by forcing frequencies that are not supported by those components, overcharging batteries, etc... Mind you Apple said they wouldn't cover jailbroken devices under warranty but in many cases they still did. So there's probably a good chance that if it's something highly unlikely to have been damaged by firmware they'll still likely cover it, but if you've bricked it you're probably SOL.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by jtownatpunk.net · 2012-01-03 16:27 · Score: 3, Interesting

Except a warranty was given at the time of sale. And changing the OS on a laptop doesn't void the warranty. Nor does flashing the BIOS. And many of the hardware components are designed to be user-serviceable.
I think claiming that changing the software/firmware/BIOS on a computing device is a legitimate cause to void the warranty is a big stretch. I can see charging a nominal fee to re-flash the device if it gets bricked but not abandoning the device entirely without first proving that the non-OEM software caused a hardware failure.
The fact that this is even an issue befuddles me. They're selling these devices, not licensing them or leasing them.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 16:30 · Score: 0

So if i modify the firmware to overvolt the CPU and that burns it out it should be cool to claim it under warranty?
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by stephanruby · 2012-01-03 16:48 · Score: 1

You missed the parent's original point. It's obvious that your point is correct, but let's say if you flash the rom on your ECM and your car keeps on working fine, but develops a completely unrelated leaky roof. Your warranty on the roof should still be valid.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by pjbgravely · 2012-01-03 16:51 · Score: 0

How is the firmware going to shift the transmission without the clutch and strip a gear?

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Star Trek, there maybe hope.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 17:24 · Score: 0

It's obvious that your point is correct, but let's say if you flash the rom on your ECM and your car keeps on working fine, but develops a completely unrelated leaky roof. Your warranty on the roof should still be valid.
And what situation for the Android tablet is that analogous to?
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by tlhIngan · 2012-01-03 17:28 · Score: 2

Cracked screens aren't usually covered under warranty, but firmware can damage components by forcing frequencies that are not supported by those components, overcharging batteries, etc... Mind you Apple said they wouldn't cover jailbroken devices under warranty but in many cases they still did. So there's probably a good chance that if it's something highly unlikely to have been damaged by firmware they'll still likely cover it, but if you've bricked it you're probably SOL.
That's because it's trivially easy to undo a jailbreak - you just put the phone in DFU mode, and click "Restore" in iTunes. Voila, jailbreak wiped.
ASUS, HTC, they know when you unlock the bootloader because you visit their website and enter in the serial number (the unlocks are keyed to the devices). So just that act already invalidates the warranty.
If you push the issue, they can probably check the NVRAM and determine if you really did or didn't apply the unlock (the unlock changes some variables to allow the bootloader to boot unsigned binaries). In the case of the ASUS, it looks like it clears the DRM key fields as well which breaks Google Movies and can't be recovered by flashing an official image again.
(Archos does this - using their jailbreak erases all the DRM keys and disables DRM functions which cannot be restored even using official firmware).
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by jtownatpunk.net · 2012-01-03 19:05 · Score: 0

Except for "proving that the non-OEM software caused a hardware failure", dumbass coward.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 19:27 · Score: 0

Does that means your car is bricked?
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by adolf · 2012-01-03 20:27 · Score: 1

The whole point of the Magnuson-Moss act is to eliminate such gotchas as "warranty is not given if you change X."
To use a car analogy, I can change the firmware in my car without affecting the warranty on the rest of the car. If something mechanical breaks, it is their duty to either fix it under the terms of the warranty (in compliance with the Magnuson-Moss Act) or prove that my modification caused the failure.
Saying "we won't fix it because you poked it funny, and we don't understand funny" isn't a legal option for them.
However, saying "we aren't going to fix your engine because your firmware removed the rev limiter, leaned the mixture and advanced the timing, causing the burnt rings and broken valves in your motor" is perfectly reasonable and valid -- as long as my firmware modification actually did those things. And even then, it's up to them to show that to be the case.

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Kid-proof tablet..
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Demonoid-Penguin · 2012-01-03 21:26 · Score: 0

Under that they have to prove that the 3rd party software broke the phone. Just in a car they can't just you put in a 3rd party radio in and say the engine warranty is void.
The radio doesn't control the engine though, so obviously replacing the radio isn't going to void the engine warranty.
What if the radio had rounded corners?
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by justforgetme · 2012-01-03 21:31 · Score: 2

Most electro manual transmissions (DSG, PDK, etc) work by this principle. The user just tells the CPU that he wants to change gear and the firmware does the rest, canceling the request if it is invalid. By that principle a badly written firmware could do much more than just strip a gear. Also in general you don't need a clutch to change gear, you need it to change gear smoothly and non destructively.

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-- no sig today
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by justforgetme · 2012-01-03 21:34 · Score: 1

Nah, you hook up the GPS to the BPM counter so that the instructions chic can rap to "teh beatz". you hook up the EQ to the RPM limiter to keep the engine in the correct harmonics (wouldn't want engine noise ruin that rap would you?).

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-- no sig today
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Malvineous · 2012-01-03 21:37 · Score: 1

Replacing the firmware in a phone isn't going to make an antenna melt or crack the screen. If a hardware component fails that can't be due to a programming error, they shouldn't be able to get out of it by saying "the phone was unlocked".
And it was only the other day that Gigabyte released a firmware update (in the form of new BIOS code) which stopped some of their motherboards going up in smoke.

As much as I support firmware modders still being covered by the warranty, the fact is that if the firmware is controlling voltage regulators or other similar devices there really is a potential for replacement firmware to cause physical damage.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by LizardKing · 2012-01-03 22:42 · Score: 2

Replacing the firmware in a car can cause mechanical failure though, perhaps by causing a transmission to shift gears at the wrong time and strip a gear or making the engine rev too high.
That's what you get for driving an automatic.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 00:32 · Score: 0

Replacing the firmware in a phone isn't going to make an antenna melt or crack the screen. If a hardware component fails that can't be due to a programming error, they shouldn't be able to get out of it by saying "the phone was unlocked".
Most wireless chips allow you to control the power they use. By upping the output power you cause overheating and shorting the life of the components involved. Phone (and wireless router) manufacturers know this and set them at usable, but conservative levels. Allowing anything to overheat is a recipe for disaster in consumer electronics, where built quality, regardless of perceived brand image, is very low compared to both military and medical standards for the same thing.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 00:45 · Score: 0

If a hardware component fails that can't be due to a programming error
Generally that's correct, but it's not always true. There are most certainly ways that software can damage hardware. It happened in the old days, with virus that could physically damage floppy drives (sorry, don't recall the details of that one). More recently, we've had this:
http://www.infobarrel.com/New_Virus_Sets_Printers_on_Fire_Is_Your_Computer_Secure
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Registered+Coward+v2 · 2012-01-04 01:30 · Score: 1

Under that they have to prove that the 3rd party software broke the phone. Just in a car they can't just you put in a 3rd party radio in and say the engine warranty is void.
No they don't. First, their unlocked will no doubt have a EULA that specifically states using it voids the warranty. It's no difference than Ford selling you parts to soup up your Mustang but telling you using them voids the engine and drivetrain warranty. Or, to your radio example, if the radio fries the ECM then you are out of luck; but your example isn't relevant to way ASUS is doing.

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I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by the_xaqster · 2012-01-04 01:45 · Score: 1

You don't even need to go down to the Firmware level to have companies claim that modifying the software on your device voids the hardware warranty.
Just install Linux on a netbook and see what happens:
http://consumerist.com/2009/12/geek-squad-wouldnt-honor-my-netbooks-protection-plan.html
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/69073.html
http://consumerist.com/2011/02/hp-pretends-linux-voids-netbook-hardware-warranty.html

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I'm just here to regulate Funkyness
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 02:11 · Score: 0

uhm that's not a good analogy.
factory installed in car dvd systems are usually tied up within the central car ecu because they share the same key code tied to the physical car key, as to avoid people casually smashing a 400$ windows to steal a 100$ dvd player.
you won't have that issue if you put an aftermarket dvd/autoradio/navsat, but if you want an aftermarket official car entartainment system you will also have to remap your ecu.
p.s. I got the dvd/cracked head analogy, but cars are more complicated than what you think.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 02:43 · Score: 0

Buttons not working. The volume rocker breaks fairly often. And for example, many HTC Heroes had badly connected screens, which could make them unresponsive after a time. And HTC did not honor the warranty if you had a different ROM on that, even though it was obviously on them.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by AmiMoJo · 2012-01-04 03:04 · Score: 1

In the EU manufactures must by law allow third parties to reset warning lights and have full access to all diagnostic information and specs for the car. Independent garages can buy equipment from independent manufacturers to do that and the car manufacturer must honour the warranty, as well as provide spare parts.
Even so there is more that could be done. MEPs are working on it. It never ceases to amaze me how little protection US politicians get for their voters.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Moryath · 2012-01-04 03:27 · Score: 1

It never ceases to amaze me how little protection US politicians get for their voters.
Why? Their voters don't do anything for them, it's the corporatocracy that owns them, bought and paid for.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by AmiMoJo · 2012-01-04 03:27 · Score: 1

How many warranty claims do you think will be covered by this though? Most of the time it is thinks like the phone not turning on or the flash memory becoming corrupt. It seems fairly unlikely that say one of the radio modules could break and ASUS could point to it and say "unapproved code caused it to fail". It would be almost impossible to prove that it wasn't a hardware issue (as it almost certainly would be, either due to heating/cooling cycles, ageing, electrical problems etc). In fact when radio modules stop working it is often the voltage regulator that has gone rather than the radio itself, and it would be extremely time consuming to measure the current draw under load conditions and determine that code had caused it to run out of spec.
My guess is that they will look for some specific known hacks that overclock the CPU or do something else unwise, but why anyone would bother with that on a quad core high end tablet like this is beyond me. Some people get a kick out of benchmark scores I guess.

--
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Shadow+of+Eternity · 2012-01-04 04:27 · Score: 1

US politicians are not paid millions of dollars every 2-6 years by their voters.

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A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by steelfood · 2012-01-04 06:13 · Score: 1

US politicians are not paid millions of dollars every 2-6 years by their voters.
More accurately, voters cannot provide US politicians with lucrative six or seven figure spots on the payroll after their tenure expires.

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"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by exomondo · 2012-01-04 09:57 · Score: 1

factory installed in car dvd systems are usually tied up within the central car ecu because they share the same key code tied to the physical car key, as to avoid people casually smashing a 400$ windows to steal a 100$ dvd player.
No, they aren't tied to the ECU.

you won't have that issue if you put an aftermarket dvd/autoradio/navsat, but if you want an aftermarket official car entartainment system you will also have to remap your ecu.
No, you won't. In my partner's 2011 mitsubishi the in-car DVD system has nothing to do with the ECU whatsoever, and i know this because i did flash it to get access to the internal HDD.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by pjbgravely · 2012-01-04 14:57 · Score: 1

It was actually a bad joke about people who can't/don't drive standards. I actually got a troll mod out of it. That should stop me from getting mod points for a while.

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Star Trek, there maybe hope.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by TheInternetGuy · 2012-01-04 16:01 · Score: 1

Nah, I am just a geek, not an Audio Nerd.

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If my comment didn't sound as good in your head as it did in mine, then I guess we all know who's to blame
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by pjbgravely · 2012-01-05 14:25 · Score: 1

Even funnier, just after posting that I got mod points.

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Star Trek, there maybe hope.
Re:Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-08 02:31 · Score: 0

You must not live in the third world. Bought a new for several years back, they wanted almost 200 bucks to change the oil and filter (first time). I change my own oil, provide proof ect. They say my warranty is void. Struts puke about three months in, they say because I did not let them rape me for an oil change my warranty does not cover the struts. I got ahold of Ford international, they said "yeah, it aint right, but every country has their own rules". Guess who ate the struts?

DRM Language by exomondo · 2012-01-03 15:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

Google video rental will also be unavailable because the device will be no longer protected by security mechanism

Why do they insist on this kind of language? Why can't they just say that, since the content providers don't trust you, they won't do business with you because they can't assert any control over your device? I know it sounds Stallman-ish but it's not about protecting the device at all, that's an outright lie. And it's not about protecting you either, it's about protecting content providers from you because they don't trust you. They really need to change their attitude towards their customers (not consumers, customers).

Re:DRM Language by SalsaDoom · 2012-01-03 15:23 · Score: 2

You know why, man. Because that makes the content providers sound like assholes, and those are people they are loosely in business with. Obviously your version is the accurate honest truth, but this is business and marketing where honesty and truth are of little use. You can't actually go to a customer and say, "I'm locking this down because I think you'll try and fuck me later.", they'll tell you to get out.
The content providers *are* assholes. This is generally known to most people who care even a little bit about the topic. Who *rents* a movie on their phone anyway? I guess people do but it always struck me as a bit insane. This is just business speak. Yes its annoying, but even I do it when talking to customers. Its the language of the land.
Anyone who knows why they might want to unlock their bootloader can probably translate from business-to-normal speech transparently anyway.

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"Computers will never truly be free until the last windows user is strangled with the entrails of the last mac user."
Re:DRM Language by steelfood · 2012-01-03 15:39 · Score: 5, Funny

The DRM is protecting you from watching the sheer dreck that is coming out of Hollywood these days passing for movies. It's protecting your wallet, your time, and in some cases, your sanity.
How you can find such protections objectionable is beyond me.

--
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Re:DRM Language by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 16:08 · Score: 0

people with hdmi out on their phones? just a guess....
Re:DRM Language by CyberDog3K · 2012-01-03 16:33 · Score: 2, Informative

In at least some cases I know of, the "security mechanism" is used to encrypt and secure payment credentials (cc info, etc) on the new droids. While I am not asserting that this is the case here, it's not impossible that certain apps will fail to work because they can't safely store or access your private data on an altered machine.
Re:DRM Language by stephanruby · 2012-01-03 16:33 · Score: 4, Interesting

Also, this is weird. Netflix and Hulu+ are able to work on rooted Android devices (they may not be able to run on ICS yet, but that's besides the point).
How come Netflix and Hulu+ have more liberal policies than Google?
Re:DRM Language by QuantumRiff · 2012-01-03 16:52 · Score: 4, Insightful

You are not google's customer.. You are google's product. Their customers are people that buy ad-words and other advertising to show to you.

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What are we going to do tonight Brain?
Re:DRM Language by exomondo · 2012-01-03 16:59 · Score: 5, Insightful

You are not google's customer.. You are google's product.
If you are renting movies or buying apps from them then you are their customer, just like if you're a Netflix or Hulu subscriber you are their customer.
Re:DRM Language by Zebai · 2012-01-03 17:50 · Score: 1

I have a feeling that this is an intentional feature break. I'm sure somebody will soon figure out how the bootloader is unlocked and provide an alternative means to do so without disabling phone features.
Re:DRM Language by Divebus · 2012-01-03 18:51 · Score: 2

That's proper wording. The device will no longer be protected from you!
You aren't the customer, either. You are in fact the consumer. Google's advertisers are their customers and you and your data are what's for sale to them. The conduit for Google scraping your data is no longer protected if you jailbreak.

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Most of the stuff on /. won't survive first contact with facts.
Re:DRM Language by RyuuzakiTetsuya · 2012-01-03 19:23 · Score: 1

These days?
Go watch Beach Blanket Bngo or Juke Girl.
No, things didn't just randomly turn to shit.
I'm more shocked that a jailbroken iPhone hasn't compromised Apple's video offerings but Google is scared shitless about rooting.

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Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Re:DRM Language by Threni · 2012-01-03 21:17 · Score: 1

> Why do they insist on this kind of language?
Because English isn't a first language.
They probaby meant something like:
"Google video rentals will also be unavailable because the device will be no longer protected by a security mechanism.
You'd expect large companies to run press releases past someone with basic English comprehension, wouldn't you? I don't know what it is about definite/indefinite articles. They don't seem very complicated to me. Perhaps they just don't exist in some other languages, like the retarded male/female "the" you get in French and German.
Re:DRM Language by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 22:59 · Score: 0

You are not google's customer.. You are google's product.
If you are renting movies or buying apps from them then you are their customer, just like if you're a Netflix or Hulu subscriber you are their customer.
No. The movie / music buying / renting business is not profitable for them but they don't care because all that matters for them is to use their monopolistic position in the search business to destroy all competition in the other businesses (phones, tablets, etc...) so you're not really their customer. You're their product.
Re:DRM Language by MrHanky · 2012-01-03 23:57 · Score: 1

This isn't about rooting.
Re:DRM Language by xeno314 · 2012-01-04 02:39 · Score: 1

No. The movie / music buying / renting business is not profitable for them but they don't care because all that matters for them is to use their monopolistic position in the search business to destroy all competition in the other businesses (phones, tablets, etc...) so you're not really their customer. You're their product.
Citation needed. Having a primary revenue stream does not preclude having others as well. I'm not at all convinced that providers are rushing into the content business when it's unprofitable.
Re:DRM Language by Microlith · 2012-01-04 03:28 · Score: 1

No you aren't. You are the product, sold by Netflix/Hulu/Google to the Media Companies who will take your money and use it to demand more bad laws like SOPA.
Re:DRM Language by mcgrew · 2012-01-04 07:17 · Score: 1

"Google video rental will also be unavailable because the device will be no longer protected by security mechanism" Why do they insist on this kind of language?
I think what they mean by it is "Google video rental will also be unavailable on our device you think you own just because you paid for it, because our device will be no longer protected from you by security mechanism".
If it has DRM, it isn't your device. It doesn't matter that you bought it and have a sales receipt, it isn't yours -- at least in their minds.

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Free Martian Whores!
Re:DRM Language by exomondo · 2012-01-04 09:38 · Score: 1

No you aren't. You are the product, sold by Netflix/Hulu/Google to the Media Companies who will take your money and use it to demand more bad laws like SOPA.
You don't cease to be a customer just because they also sell targeted advertising, it's not that hard to understand.
Re:DRM Language by exomondo · 2012-01-04 09:40 · Score: 1

You aren't the customer, either. You are in fact the consumer.
You're the customer, you're buying a product or service from them so by definition you are the customer.

Google's advertisers are their customers and you and your data are what's for sale to them.
Google's advertisers are also their customers.
Re:DRM Language by exomondo · 2012-01-04 10:11 · Score: 1

No. The movie / music buying / renting business is not profitable for them but they don't care because all that matters for them is to use their monopolistic position in the search business to destroy all competition in the other businesses (phones, tablets, etc...) so you're not really their customer. You're their product.
I suppose you can't actually show that the movie and music buying/renting business is unprofitable can you? We already know that you're their product, but it's idiots like you that regurgitate that rhetoric without actually knowing what it means and realizing that it's only relevant in particular contexts, for example in this situation you are - by definition - both their product and their customer.
Re:DRM Language by stephanruby · 2012-01-04 14:23 · Score: 1

I think you're confusing their pay-per-view movie rental service with their youtube service.
Re:DRM Language by Divebus · 2012-01-04 16:39 · Score: 1

I still think you're Verizon's customer (or Sprint or AT&T or [insert_carrier]). The Google software comes with the phone, installed by the carrier which makes you a user of Google's software but not their customer.
The carriers are Google's customers directly. Google doesn't care about you as a customer, otherwise you'd be able to get updates on your device directly from Google. You're not receiving anything from Google directly. Google gives Android to the carriers and they receive billions of nano-pennies as the consumer uses the phone, getting ad revenue and tracking customers to their own favored advertisers and service providers.
Android is installed at the pleasure of the carrier to serve their own purpose, namely running a phone customizable to what the carriers want you to see and what they can get paid for. Gradient to Google, you're just a consumer. The big surprise is the carriers haven't returned to the time when they could sell the pictures you took with your phone back to you for 25 cents apiece. Remember the days when they disabled OBEX on their flip phones so they could prevent access to photos and ringtones?
That's what I think, anyway.

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Most of the stuff on /. won't survive first contact with facts.
Re:DRM Language by exomondo · 2012-01-04 16:44 · Score: 1

I still think you're Verizon's customer (or Sprint or AT&T or [insert_carrier]). The Google software comes with the phone, installed by the carrier which makes you a user of Google's software but not their customer.
Read the original post, it specifically refers to the Google Video rental service, for which you pay Google for a service, by definition making you their customer. If you're just using their search or free services then you might have a point, but this is explicitly related to a situation where you are paying Google directly for a service, in that case you are most definitely their customer.

this must be... by spyrral · 2012-01-03 15:31 · Score: 3, Funny

some definition of popular I'm not familiar with.

Re:this must be... by ghn · 2012-01-03 15:37 · Score: 1

+1
Re:this must be... by larry+bagina · 2012-01-03 15:48 · Score: 1

Most popular Android tablet. If you ignore the Kindle fire.

--
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Re:this must be... by LordKronos · 2012-01-03 15:48 · Score: 4, Insightful

You aren't familiar with the definition of popular that includes so many people preordering that, by the time release day hits, Amazon has a 5-7 week backlog, which continued to grow until Amazon has to stop accepting preorders? Nope, that doesn't sound popular at all.
Re:this must be... by martin-boundary · 2012-01-03 16:25 · Score: 2, Funny

some definition of popular I'm not familiar with.

Yup, popular is one of the more decepticonly versatile words in the English language, but I believe it's being used optimusly in this case, though.
Re:this must be... by Samantha+Wright · 2012-01-03 16:51 · Score: 2

Well. That's just prime, then.

--
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
Re:this must be... by spyrral · 2012-01-04 02:58 · Score: 1

http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-features/55717-bottleneck-blamed-for-asus-transformer-shortage
Re:this must be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 03:08 · Score: 0

The Kindle Fire isn't an Android tablet.
Re:this must be... by larry+bagina · 2012-01-04 10:55 · Score: 1

It's a tablet running a custom version of android. AKA an "Android tablet"

--
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Re:this must be... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 12:58 · Score: 0

You aren't familiar with the definition of popular that includes so many people preordering that, by the time release day hits, Amazon has a 5-7 week backlog, which continued to grow until Amazon has to stop accepting preorders? Nope, that doesn't sound popular at all.
Asus apparently had severe component shortages so were only able to manufacture 10,000 per week. Sadly, the Transformer Prime is popular only for some (tiny) definitions of popular.

Fucking crybabies by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 15:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

A company makes it easy for you to mod their tablet, and all you can do is whinge. Reading these comments, I doubt they will bother next time around.

Re:Fucking crybabies by justforgetme · 2012-01-03 21:58 · Score: 1

This comment is severely underrated.
What the **** happened? Are Locked devices the new cool?
Is the next generation of hackers only interested in writing fart apps?

--
-- no sig today
Re:Fucking crybabies by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 22:33 · Score: 1

I actually own one of these tablets, and considering the amount of various faults and bugs this device (and especially it's accompanying dock/keyboard) has, I would *never* want to lose my warranty, considering that I've had to send it back for repairs twice. To me, and anyone with a brain, this boot loader unlock is pretty much useless if it voids your warranty completely.
That said, I do appreciate the gesture, and it will certainly be handy when warranty expires and no software supoprt is given anymore, I would problably want to put CyanogenMod on it or something.
Re:Fucking crybabies by shentino · 2012-01-03 23:50 · Score: 1

We whine because their good deed brought a skeleton out of their closet we didn't want to see.
Re:Fucking crybabies by Raenex · 2012-01-04 01:47 · Score: 2

A company makes it easy for you to mod their tablet, and all you can do is whinge.
Because we're not groveling sycophants willing to heap praise for every crumb given. Oh, sure, you can unlock your device, but you have to ask permission, your warranty is void, and your capabilities are diminished. Gee, thank you master!
Re:Fucking crybabies by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 03:52 · Score: 0

You can have freedom, or you can have a warranty. That's not really the utopia most people had in mind for the "open" phone OS...
Re:Fucking crybabies by Culture20 · 2012-01-04 09:45 · Score: 1

I actually own one of these tablets, and considering the amount of various faults and bugs this device (and especially it's accompanying dock/keyboard) has, I would *never* want to lose my warranty, considering that I've had to send it back for repairs twice.
You've sent back a Transformer Prime (released less than two weeks ago) back twice already? Liar.

The tablet thing is old already. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 15:35 · Score: 0

Give me something to be excited about. I see tons about the hardware and the OS but the apps are just a bore. Do I really need a gadget for ereading and netflix?

Re:The tablet thing is old already. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 15:43 · Score: 0

Give me something to be excited about.
Perhaps some shock therapy will do as excitement?

Google movie rentals ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 15:38 · Score: 0

Did I miss something ?

When did Google begin renting movies ?

Re:Google movie rentals ? by exomondo · 2012-01-03 15:54 · Score: 2

When did Google begin renting movies ?
A while ago.

Oh, no, no google video? What ever shall I do? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 15:43 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Please do note that if you choose to unlock your device, the ASUS warranty will be void, and Google video rental will also be unavailable because the device will be no longer protected by security mechanism.'"

That's OK, I'll just pirate the movies for free without the idiotic DRM and not give anyone a dime. How's that working out for you, corporations?

Asus is doing it wrong by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 15:58 · Score: 1

Want to do Android right? Lookie Samsung.

I returned my Asus Transformer after almost a month of waiting around for bootloader unlock and root. Samsung's Android coup is due in large part to the fact that their own developer tools are leaked out, they pay close attention to the homebrew community and even hire some of the top developers. I'll never buy an Asus tablet again, no matter how great the hardware. It's my tablet, I should be able to root it - end of.

Re:Asus is doing it wrong by futuresheep · 2012-01-04 03:32 · Score: 1

After dealing with Samsungs late or non existent updates for four seperate devices including Bluray players, phones, and tablets. I'll never buy Samsung again.
Months later than anyone else on Froyo updates. Months late on updating decryption keys on bluray players keeping some movies unwatchable, refusing to to release an OS upgrade for phones that are perfectly capable of supporting it....Hell. they just release Gingerbread for some of their phones.
How about all those poor suckers that bought the Samsung Droid Charge less than 6 months ago that aren't getting ICS on their device? It was $300.00 with a contract, the first 4G phone Verizon had. What marvelous Samsung support.
All those top developers are really helping out there aren't they?
But you're right...Samsung sure has it right...

Security mechanism? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 15:59 · Score: 2, Interesting

Just finished watching this youtube speech by Cory Doctorow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HUEvRyemKSg

"Security mechanism" = root kit + spyware.

Its in everyones best interest to use real language and not marketing/propaganda speech. Root kits and spyware is not security.

Re:Security mechanism? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 03:17 · Score: 0

Just finished watching this youtube speech by Cory Doctorow: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HUEvRyemKSg
"Security mechanism" = root kit + spyware.
Its in everyones best interest to use real language and not marketing/propaganda speech. Root kits and spyware is not security.
That was hyperbole to describe one possible draconian tomorrow. Stop presenting it at fact today. Its not. In fact, that interpretation is illegal today.

It's a start. by Dremth · 2012-01-03 16:01 · Score: 2

It's nice to see more and more manufacturers providing the option for customers unlock the bootloaders for their Android devices, but does it really have to void the warranty? I mean, can't they determine if a failure was a direct result of unlocking the bootloader? If you unlock your phone's bootloader and then brick your phone trying to install some weird crap, then it's clearly your fault and shouldn't be covered by your warranty, but if your screen dies or your battery explodes, it probably has nothing to do with whether or not you unlocked the device's bootloader.

Re:It's a start. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 16:33 · Score: 1

This.
ASUS pretty clearly wants to minimize service costs, which means trying to avoid having an engineering staff dedicated to solving software issues. Support services, though, can make a distinction between hardware faults like defective batteries and software issues. This ought to be more clearly spelled out, and warranty service for manufacturing defects shouldn't be voided by software changes.
The only intersection of software and hardware that could provoke trouble would be the possibility of drivers frying some component or bricking the machine. That was always a possibility before (hence legends of XFree86 being able to explode monitors). The best solution would be for manufacturers to built fault-tolerant hardware with firmware that doesn't permit bonkers input values to fry/brick things.
This is probably much more about avoiding a running battle to secure the DRM: using the warranty as a carrot to keep the risk-averse away from unlocking the system software and circumventing the DRM keeps the lion's share of the buyers locked down. The ones who are going to jailbreak the system (and probably the DRM) are the ones who have enough technical knowledge to feel secure without a warranty. The carrot is the important part: the stick (trying to keep *all* systems locked down) is where the company would start pouring 80% of its resources into something that affects only 20% of cases. This lets them avoid that battle, look like nice guys for letting modders do what they want, show some good faith towards the content providers, and keep costs down. Wise move.
Re:It's a start. by mkremer · 2012-01-03 17:08 · Score: 1

The problem with your idea of building hardware that that is fault-tolerant is that it would be more expensive. There is no way around that since both in the design and test of the hardware more resources would need to be used.
Also the BOM and manufacturing costs would most likely also go up.
Most consumer devices are too cost and time sensitive for this.

Just got mine... by Fez · 2012-01-03 16:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

I just got mine this afternoon, ordered just before Christmas from Best Buy and it came today. So far, I'm impressed with it.

I will probably not root the thing, and have no interest in custom ROMs, so aside from the impending ICS update it's great for me as-is.

I've been playing on it non-stop since I pulled it off the charger about 3 hours ago and even with all manner of app installing and game playing it's barely below 75% charge.

Re:Just got mine... by SpazmodeusG · 2012-01-03 17:04 · Score: 4, Informative

I just got mine this afternoon ... I will probably not root the thing.
I suspect you feel that way simply because you haven't had enough time to see how limited it is without rooting it. Basically step outside the realm of any task that has an app for it and you'll need to root it. As an example i had to root my Asus Transformer to log in to an openVPN network. It's a fairly simple task that even my phone can do but the Transformer can't do it without root access (yes, it does support l2tp without rooting but i needed openVPN).
Re:Just got mine... by Fez · 2012-01-03 17:12 · Score: 2

OpenVPN would be nice, but I have had an android phone for over a year and have had no desire or need to root that, either. It supports IPsec in a way that works fine for me, as does PPTP.
Though the Transformer Prime doesn't have the "Advanced IPsec" options my Droid X does, unfortunately. (Perhaps ICS will bring that... would be nice)
Re:Just got mine... by scdeimos · 2012-01-03 17:48 · Score: 1

Did you get it with a dock? Have ASUS actually got a battery indicator for the dock battery yet?
Re:Just got mine... by symbolset · 2012-01-03 18:16 · Score: 1

Get the Dual Battery Widget. It's free.

--
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Re:Just got mine... by rdnetto · 2012-01-03 20:10 · Score: 1

I just got mine this afternoon, ordered just before Christmas from Best Buy and it came today. So far, I'm impressed with it.
I will probably not root the thing, and have no interest in custom ROMs, so aside from the impending ICS update it's great for me as-is.
I've been playing on it non-stop since I pulled it off the charger about 3 hours ago and even with all manner of app installing and game playing it's barely below 75% charge.
It really depends whether you use it as a tablet or a netbook. As a tablet, it's a nice device. As a netbook, Android is the most painfully limited OS I've seen. You can install the GNU tools and a terminal emulator, but it's not long at all before you start to really miss the functionality of a proper Linux distro.
I have a first gen Transformer dual booting Kubuntu, and I only ever use Android for things the Ubuntu kernel doesn't yet support.

--
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
Re:Just got mine... by thegarbz · 2012-01-03 21:03 · Score: 2

Supporting one specific app that is not in the usage case for 99% of the prospective owners does not make a device "limited". I too have rooted my device, but I honestly couldn't name a single application that actually would need it. Titanium backup maybe, but there's an application that any normal person who doesn't flash new firmware every week could very easily live without. Why I rooted? Well it was just a feature of the rom I installed.
The reality is quite on the flip side. Every advertised feature works. Nearly all of the applications on the market work. Things as basic as stock tickers to advanced network discovery clients, ssh clients, remote desktop, file managers, applications which manage the system like task killers, and applications which fundamentally modify the behaviour of the phone like noLED as well also work on non-rooted devices.
There's a few cases where some apps work better than others on rooted phones due to different methods of doing things, such as the program Adfree is neat on a rooted phone since it modifies the host file rather than staying memory resident like other adblockers, but on the whole there is very little that you can't do on a non-rooted phone even as an advanced user.
Re:Just got mine... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 21:06 · Score: 0

How is the GPS performance?
Re:Just got mine... by scdeimos · 2012-01-03 22:40 · Score: 1

I know, I have it already. It's just another example of ASUS being bone-headed by making a tablet with two batteries and only displaying the charge status and levels for one of them.
Re:Just got mine... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 02:08 · Score: 0

I too have rooted my device, but I honestly couldn't name a single application that actually would need it.
You really are a sucker for punishment, aren't ya? I haven't seen ads on the 'net in years and I'd like to keep it that way.
AdFree
BlackBox
DroidWall
GPSFix
MarketEnabler
TitaniumBackup
WireShark
Re:Just got mine... by Fez · 2012-01-04 03:31 · Score: 1

I have dozens of unix boxes I can ssh to if I need to do anything like that. I plan on using it as a tablet myself, even if I do get the dock it's main purpose is internet apps + games.
If I need to do anything more complex, I can always ssh or vnc/rdp to another box and do it remotely.
The transformer prime does a bit nicer job of multitasking though, the recent apps button lets you easily swap between running applications or kill ones you aren't using. I'm not sure if that's an Asus thing or a Honeycomb thing though.
Re:Just got mine... by kcitren · 2012-01-04 03:32 · Score: 1

How's the performance of Kubuntu on the Transformer? What works and doesn't work?
Re:Just got mine... by Fez · 2012-01-04 03:34 · Score: 1

I want to get the dock but nobody had it in stock yet. It works great without it, so I don't mind waiting until the current craze dies down.
The stock Asus Battery widget looks like it displays indicators for both the tablet and dock batteries. I have a screenshot of the widget preview for proof if someone really wants to see it.
Re:Just got mine... by Fez · 2012-01-04 03:48 · Score: 1

I haven't taken it outside to try to get a lock. It found my location inside, but not via GPS. I can't get a lock with any GPS device (even my handheld Garmin) inside my house, so I'm not shocked. If I get some time today I'll try to take it outside to see if I can get a lock.
They say the metal back panel interferes with the GPS signal, and I don't doubt it. Personally, my uses for GPS on here will be minimal though. When I'm on the road I can use location-based services on my phone rather than a tablet, but time will tell how much of a problem it may be.
Re:Just got mine... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 06:57 · Score: 0

My Transformer came with a widget that shows the battery level of both the dock and tablet. I haven't purchased a dock yet so I can't test it. But the widget shows both, the dock is just grayed out when it's not attached.
Re:Just got mine... by rdnetto · 2012-01-04 16:25 · Score: 1

Kubuntu runs comfortably (20 sec boot time from emmc), though there are a few things which don't work. Most notably, video playback (dependent on hardware acceleration) and the external speakers. The 768 MB of RAM can be a bit limiting if you try to open Firefox with a bunch of tabs though. (Chromium won't render anything until we get graphics acceleration working).
In terms of software, mplayer doesn't work (but VLC does, and I think mplayer could be fixed with a recompile) and plasma has an odd bug where you can't add any widgets to the desktop - the pane just doesn't respond when you try and drag them.
Despite these, it actually works pretty well. Once hardware acceleration is working I'll probably get rid of Android entirely and just use Gnome 3 when I want a tablet-style interface.

--
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.

Can't find any by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 16:05 · Score: 0

Asus *uck*d up this product launch big time. This device is nowhere to be found.

Re:Can't find any by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 01:49 · Score: 0

Just like Nintendo fucked up the Wii launch?

This is all fine, but can... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 16:12 · Score: 0, Redundant

...it run the Linux?

Re:This is all fine, but can... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 17:53 · Score: 0

...it run the Linux?
Yes... Android runs on Linux you idiot.
Re:This is all fine, but can... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 19:20 · Score: 0

Yes... Android runs on Linux you idiot.
Whoosh! Whoa, did you see that? Oh, you just missed it.

just a question, by lister+king+of+smeg · 2012-01-03 16:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

Why is it that they will not let you access their service on a rooted phone/tablet but I can use their service on a Pc which I have admin access to and in the case of browser based delivery such as hulu or netflix I have the source code of the browser through which they send their content that they think they must protect so dearly. What is the deal? I am far more likely to pirate on a Pc then I am on the phone by far.

--
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.

Re:just a question, by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 19:44 · Score: 0

Too late to "fix" the computer market.
Not too late to "fix" the tablet market.
It's really the same as with marijuana and alcohol, many people ask why you allow alcohol which in most ways is more dangerous than marijuana.
The answer is that alcohol is so spread out that it can't be stopped.
I'm not certain I agree with that logic, but the point is that if something is already free, locking it up causes an outrage if it's popular.
Re:just a question, by shentino · 2012-01-04 01:51 · Score: 1

That's because alcohol as an established market is too politically entrenched to get rid of.
Pot, on the other hand, has been illegal and black market since a long ass time so there's not much demand to be had for it.
Re:just a question, by steelfood · 2012-01-04 06:19 · Score: 1

Possibly, the Google DRM is tied to some unique signature in the firmware. It sounds more like poor DRM design for the platform than any kind of intentional restriction.

--
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Re:just a question, by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 07:15 · Score: 0

Your reality check bounced.

As a token of appreciation... by api_syurga · 2012-01-03 16:37 · Score: 4, Interesting

and since I'm on the market for a touch pad device anyway, I'll buy this one, even if don't end up modding it. After the purchase I will inform their customer representative that the decision to buy their device is owed partly of them upgrading to ICS and boot unlocking.

Voting with my dollars.

ACER + eeePCeee by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 16:46 · Score: 0

I once had a 486 running NT 3.51 and was trying to get the audio working, I wrote ACER about it and they made a driver for me in less than a week. I've LOVED ACER after that. I would be suprised if they won't unlock the eeePCeee . If they don't they must have some hidden reason not to. Anyway, in this horrible world where everything seems to be going to hell, it's good to see firmware opened up! If ACER is reading this. I only ask they do the right thing, and god bless your company.

How much change in infrastructure? by tepples · 2012-01-03 16:56 · Score: 1

They're selling these devices, not licensing them or leasing them.

Yet. How much change in the quote-unquote "sales" channel would be needed to shift the business model from ownership to a two- or three-year lease?

Revenue stream; more established brands by tepples · 2012-01-03 16:58 · Score: 1

How come Netflix and Hulu+ have more liberal policies than Google?

For one thing, they already have a monthly revenue stream, unlike Google which appears to be pay-per-view. For another, Netflix and Hulu Plus have more established brands, and major film distributors are more likely to work with more established brands.

Re:Oh, no, no google video? What ever shall I do? by retchdog · 2012-01-03 16:59 · Score: 0

believe me, they know that people like you were doing that already. no loss.

--
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky

Ad vs. PPV by tepples · 2012-01-03 17:00 · Score: 3, Informative

You are not google's customer.. You are google's product. Their customers are people that buy ad-words and other advertising to show to you.

Since when are Android Market movie rentals fully supported by advertisers? I thought they were pay-per-view.

Re:Ad vs. PPV by dave420 · 2012-01-03 23:22 · Score: 0

Since SHUT YOUR MOUTH, that's when! Don't try getting this nutjob thinking logically - it doesn't work. He has drunk the Kool-Aid.

ASUS != Acer by tepples · 2012-01-03 17:05 · Score: 1

It looks like you're confusing two similarly named oriental computer manufacturers. ASUS == Eee PC subnotebook and Transformer tablet. Acer == Aspire One subnotebook and Iconia tablet.

Now I'll buy two by Culture20 · 2012-01-03 17:10 · Score: 1

One for work and one for fun.

Re:Oh, no, no google video? What ever shall I do? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 17:45 · Score: 0

I've honestly been looking for a way to pay that's as convenient as piracy. I really have. When I can teach my parents how to pirate easier than to teach them to use netflix and have the movies actually show up on their TV -- well, that tells you something.

hardware parts stay under warranty regardless by gl4ss · 2012-01-03 19:13 · Score: 2

of what you do.
also manufacturer defects will have to be covered(this goes _past_ the so called warranty).

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.

dead pixels, dead buttons etc. by gl4ss · 2012-01-03 19:15 · Score: 1

It's obvious that your point is correct, but let's say if you flash the rom on your ECM and your car keeps on working fine, but develops a completely unrelated leaky roof. Your warranty on the roof should still be valid.

And what situation for the Android tablet is that analogous to?

dead pixels, dead buttons, usb port coming loose from the mobo etc.

--
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.

Re:dead pixels, dead buttons etc. by justforgetme · 2012-01-03 21:40 · Score: 1

hmm... you can AFAIC torture LCD screens via software (you would have to reprogram the screen driver chip though) that could produce dead pixels. Also USBs could be overvoltaged untill they start shooting flames, but I think that would need a device connected to them to actually close a circuit.
btw, I'm no expert on those two things so the above are speculations

--
-- no sig today
Re:dead pixels, dead buttons etc. by SteveTheNewbie · 2012-01-04 01:38 · Score: 2

In both Australia and New Zealand, the onus would be on the manufacturer to prove that flashing new firmware caused the flames to spout from the USB port (or the dead pixels etc). US law may be different, but a lot of countries have some pretty decent consumer protection laws. In the case of ASUS, they would still need to honour the warranty on the rest of the device, and if flashing caused loss of DRM keys and such forth that were not able to be recovered with a factory restore, they would quite probably have to make this abundantly clear to the consumer that this was the case or it could get messy.

Nice ... by garry_g · 2012-01-03 20:00 · Score: 1

Seems like they are listening to their (prospective) customers ... I so want one ;)
Also, as long as they supply timely updates, and there's no bloatware on the pad, there's no real necessity for unlocking (n.b.: I rooted and re-flashed both my Android phones within days (and hours in case of the second one) of getting them ...) ... so let there be ICS and JB (whatever the next version is called - was that going to be Jelly Beans?), and the users will be happy!
Now if I could only find a decent place to get on in Germany ...

Re:Oh, no, no google video? What ever shall I do? by Cinder6 · 2012-01-03 20:08 · Score: 1

Maybe you're bad at explaining? Streaming from Netflix is loads easier than explaining how bittorrent works.

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If you can't convince them, convict them.

3G version by khipu · 2012-01-03 20:25 · Score: 1

Sadly, there doesn't seem to be a 3G version of this tablet.

They should really come up with a standard small USB slot (similar to the express card, but smaller and USB-only) that would allow them to use the same tablet hardware for WiFi, GSM, LTE, WiMax, and CDMA devices. An industry-standard would be nice, but even an ASUS-only standard would be good. That way, they only have to get FCC approval once for the tablet, and they could keep their inventories smaller too.

Re:3G version by Rennt · 2012-01-04 05:11 · Score: 1

They do have a standard for that kind of thing: Bluetooth.
I do think it would be nice to have the choice, but how many would actually use the built-in 3G capability? Consumers would rather tether than pay for two data accounts, and for most people those are their only choices.
Re:3G version by khipu · 2012-01-05 00:19 · Score: 1

They do have a standard for that kind of thing: Bluetooth.
I don't understand. How is Bluetooth a standard that lets me slot a choice of 3G modems into a tablet? ExpressCard is such a standard, but it is too large for tablets. A recessed USB slot would work, but there are no small and thin USB 3G cards.

I do think it would be nice to have the choice, but how many would actually use the built-in 3G capability? Consumers would rather tether than pay for two data accounts, and for most people those are their only choices.
The world isn't just the US; in other places, you can use multiple SIM cards with the same account. And I think that's going to happen in the US as well. Also, you might want to be able to switch carriers in the US.
Furthermore, even if you tether in the US, for travel, it's nice and more useful to put a prepaid SIM card in a tablet.

Dropping GPS support? by larppaxyz · 2012-01-03 20:28 · Score: 1

What? They mean that after upgrade, there will be no GPS available anymore? That sounds like severe hardware issue and they try to blame software.

Re:Dropping GPS support? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 21:08 · Score: 0

What? They mean that after upgrade, there will be no GPS available anymore? That sounds like severe hardware issue and they try to blame software.
Did you RTFA? ASUS said they removed GPS support due to poor performance of the hardware, they didn't blame software. Read:

The ASUS Transformer Prime is made from a metallic unibody design, so the material may affect the performance of the GPS when receiving signals from satellites. Please note that this product is not a professional GPS device, and signal performance can be easily influenced by factors including, but not limited to: weather, buildings, and surrounding environments. Please understand there are limitations when using the GPS function. To avoid inconveniencing users who demand a powerful GPS device, we made the decision to remove it from our specification sheet and marketing communications. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.
Re:Dropping GPS support? by drinkypoo · 2012-01-03 22:49 · Score: 1

To avoid inconveniencing users who demand a powerful GPS device, we made the decision to remove it from our specification sheet and marketing communications. We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused.
It's still causing inconvenience. Did they remove the GPS or just remove it from their literature? I guess I'm NOT buying this device, but waiting for Prime+1 where they can get the fucking GPS antenna right. They should have fixed this before going to market. Huge fuckup for ASUS.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Dropping GPS support? by hplus · 2012-01-07 07:52 · Score: 1

If you read what they wrote, it's pretty obvious they just removed it from the literature.
Re:Dropping GPS support? by drinkypoo · 2012-01-07 08:33 · Score: 1

If you read what they wrote, it's pretty unclear as they say things like "dropped it as a feature" as opposed to "dropped it from the list of features printed on the box". However, I've found personal accounts claiming it works so long as the device is open and the screen can see the sky. Unfortunately, they were also happy that it had found five satellites, which isn't enough to get a decent fix.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Oh...snap!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 20:31 · Score: 0

The boy jus got SCHOOLED!!!

GPS? by felix85 · 2012-01-03 21:15 · Score: 1

Now are they going to reimburse the owners of the device for the removal of a feature that was advertised when they bought it...?? If I remember right another company (Sony and the other os feature if you didn't know) did that once and there was an outrage (for some). Not that the GPS is a major feature but removing it after it is released and in the customer's hands detracts from the value of the product.

Re:GPS? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 00:54 · Score: 0

Well, since the Prime has only been on the market for like 2 weeks, you can just return it to where you bought it from.

Re:Oh, no, no google video? What ever shall I do? by gknoy · 2012-01-03 21:35 · Score: 1

The selection, on the one hand, is relatively poor, but on the other hand you don't need to maintain a library.

Re:Oh, no, no google video? What ever shall I do? by justforgetme · 2012-01-03 22:04 · Score: 1

no it isn't. You have to sign up for netflix, which requires usage of a keyboard. Whereas torrent delivery is so streamlined by now that (given somebody sends you a link to a movie torrent on a torrent site) you can go through installing a torrent client , DL and watch with use of only the mouse (or manically waving your hands around in the living room in front of a kinect, if that's what your deal)

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-- no sig today

Hey tablet vendors - pay attention by gru3hunt3r · 2012-01-03 22:36 · Score: 5, Insightful

Hey tablet vendors - pay attention, Asus isn't just catering to the home user - they're catering to the corporate IT user.

Our employees don't need Google videos ..
But to get OpenVPN on android 4.0 I (currently) need to root it.
Making rooted devices is incredibly appealing.

ASUS - Nice job!
Guess which device just went to the top of our "IT recommended devices" list for employees.

Can't wait to see it - if this device officially "supports" roots .. in the sense that I don't have to worry about you deciding to remote kill + brick the device then we'll just make this the only device employees can receive reimbursement for.

God I can't wait for a decent Windows 8 tablet. This android ipad walled garden policies *crap* is so incompatible with the company I work for. While I'm not a microsoft fan, at least they understand business.

I'll get a tablet when... by EmagGeek · 2012-01-03 23:46 · Score: 2

... they come blank, and you can install your O/S yourself, with YOUR choice of features enabled, and have complete control over all of the hardware, just like a PC - without having to jump through a million hoops.

I just went through this process on my phone just so I could get OpenVPN installed and working. What a pain.

Re:I'll get a tablet when... by fido_dogstoyevsky · 2012-01-04 00:32 · Score: 1

... they come blank, and you can install your O/S yourself, with YOUR choice of features enabled, and have complete control over all of the hardware, just like a PC - without having to jump through a million hoops.
Absolutely. Wish I had mod points.
I need a tablet for my job (teaching) but I'm not buying one until I can get one that works the way I need it to from the start.

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It's NOT a conspiracy... it's a plot.
Re:I'll get a tablet when... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 04:16 · Score: 0

You might consider a touchscreen netbook then. My ASUS EEE-PC T91 may not be as thin, technically powerful, or user friendly as an iPad, but it has a keyboard and came with Windows XP so my app store is the WHOLE FREAKIN' INTERNET!
Re:I'll get a tablet when... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 08:12 · Score: 0

... they come blank, and you can install your O/S yourself, with YOUR choice of features enabled, and have complete control over all of the hardware, just like a PC - without having to jump through a million hoops.
Sounds like you'll be waiting a long, long time.
Re:I'll get a tablet when... by Culture20 · 2012-01-04 10:07 · Score: 1

You might consider a touchscreen netbook then. My ASUS EEE-PC T91 may not be as thin, technically powerful, or user friendly as an iPad, but it has a keyboard and came with Windows XP so my app store is the WHOLE FREAKIN' INTERNET!
And talk about ease of use! His app store uploads software to him while he surfs the web!

GPS Solution by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-03 23:47 · Score: 0

GPS problems are due to aluminium cover. Why cant they just replace it with a polycarbonate cover and give people a choice.
Aluminium cover with NO GPS, or Polycarbonate cover with GPS.
I would totally choose the latter.

Re:Paging SharkLaser by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 00:42 · Score: 0

Heh, bonch is awol too, it seems. How the hell am I supposed to read an Android article correctly without those friendly trolls to guide my thoughts?

Hooray for Optimus! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 01:28 · Score: 0

I am so psyched for the next movie to come out...

Oh, wait - never mind, thought ICS was an Inter-Continental Sawzall or something like that.

ASUS struggling to make it in a new market? by Hast · 2012-01-04 01:46 · Score: 1

You mean struggling to build enough units of the previous version to keep it on shelves? (http://www.tgdaily.com/mobility-features/55579-asus-eee-transformer-sold-out-on-best-buy)

It seems like the version has some problems but it also seems like ASUS acknowledged them and delayed the launch. Hopefully they will be fixed on the devices which reach consumers.

The techcrunch article is gratuitously bitter by peppepz · 2012-01-04 02:56 · Score: 2

They bash the tablet for a hundred lines only because:
a) its gps receiver is poor;
b) its bootloader is locked.

Bid deal? The American market leader for the same product category sells devices that are locked as hell and occasionally have defective (main!) antennas. Did techcrunch review those gadgets with the same language?

Then Asus declares that they will unlock the bootloader, thereby invalidating three quarters of the techcrunch article, but its author just adds a post scriptum at the end of the article saying that its point still stands because "Asus has to learn how to properly handle consumer electronics". This sounds like the fable of the wolf and the lamb to me. If Asus manage to release CE stuff with the same price/features ratio that they offered in the PC/components market, I for one will definitely feel properly "handled".

Re:The techcrunch article is gratuitously bitter by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 03:52 · Score: 0

The author of that article is a former Best Buy salesboy. Go figure.

no longer protected FROM YOU by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-04 03:58 · Score: 0

"Please do note that if you choose to unlock your device, the ASUS warranty will be void, and Google video rental will also be unavailable because the device will be no longer protected FROM YOU by security mechanism.'

Content owners write the rules by DragonWriter · 2012-01-04 06:15 · Score: 2

How come Netflix and Hulu+ have more liberal policies than Google?

Because Netflix and Hulu+ were able to get different terms from content owners. Some of that may be how much revenue the content owners get from Netflix and Hulu+, some of that may be how unfriendly content owners are to Google for other reasons, some of them may be due to the fact that Google Movie Rentals include the option to download and play offline while Netflix and Hulu+ are streaming-only services, and content owners may view the latter as less vulnerable (whether or not that is actually the case is less important than how they view it.)

Getting sued by Hasbro by cheezitmike · 2012-01-04 06:48 · Score: 1

ASUS is also facing a lawsuit from Hasbro, who feels that the name "Transformer Prime" might just be infringing on one of its trademarks... http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/21/it-had-to-happen-eventually-hasbro-sues-asus-over-transformer-name/ Hasbro's asking for an injunction to halt sales until the case is resolved...

Re:Getting sued by Hasbro by Culture20 · 2012-01-04 10:18 · Score: 1

ASUS should just laugh at Hasbro. A tablet computer is not a toy. It is especially not a transformable robot action figure.

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Transformer Prime To Get ICS On January 12, Boot Unlocker Coming

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