Raspberry Pi Has Gone To Manufacturing

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Raspberry Pi Has Gone To Manufacturing

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday January 10, 2012 @01:07PM from the bake-until-golden-brown dept.

alecclews writes "After weeks of waiting, the Raspberry Pi foundation, who are creating a $25 computer to bootstrap computing education, has flipped the switch on manufacturing. They had wanted to build the board in the UK but it turns out to be uneconomic."

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Not vapourware! by isCreeper($('Ssss')) · 2012-01-10 13:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

After all of the accusations of vapourware, it's nice that they're actually making these.
1. Re:Not vapourware! by thelonesun · 2012-01-10 13:18 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I want you to try to make a 25$ x86 computer. No pressure. Go ahead.
2. Re:Not vapourware! by hawguy · 2012-01-10 13:40 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Even if you did create a $25 x86 computer that could run Windows, you'd have to add $100 for the Windows License.
3. Re:Not vapourware! by PRMan · 2012-01-10 13:53 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  1. Install DOSBox on your Raspberry Pi.
  2. Install Windows 95/98 in DOSBox. Windows 95 on DosBox guide.
  
  --
  Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
4. Re:Not vapourware! by weirdo557 · 2012-01-10 14:04 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  about $54 dollars http://www.bifferos.co.uk/ but proof that x86 can be done. i for one still root for the raspberry pi though, can't wait to order one.
5. Re:Not vapourware! by sunderland56 · 2012-01-10 14:13 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Whether it is "vapor" or not, if they are still going to ship with only Lin-sux and no proper OS (Windows or OS X) support, then the project is going to nose dive anyway.
  Of all the computers that handled your message between your own computer and the slashdot servers, how many were running what you call a "proper OS"?
  
  I bet that even the router in your own house doesn't run Windows.
6. Re:Not vapourware! by hawguy · 2012-01-10 14:33 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  but can you run any supported version of Windows with 150Mhz CPU, 32MB of RAM and 8MB of Flash? (even ignoring the fact that it has no display)
  Aside from Windows CE or Mobile (which I don't think is what the OP was asking for), I think Windows XP embedded has the lowest system requirements of any supported version of Windows, and its got the same base requirements as XP Pro:
  
  Pentium 233-megahertz (MHz) processor or faster (300 MHz is recommended)
  At least 64 megabytes (MB) of RAM (128 MB is recommended)
  At least 1.5 gigabytes (GB) of available space on the hard disk
  CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive
  Keyboard and a Microsoft Mouse or some other compatible pointing device
  Video adapter and monitor with Super VGA (800 x 600) or higher resolution
7. Re:Not vapourware! by Edmund+Blackadder · 2012-01-10 14:42 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I know, seriously. We need Windows on this. What will I do without 5 minute start-up times and without having to restart the thing twice per day??? My crochet work will seriously suffer. Also I am going to be pissed if I get one of these and I do not have 25 pieces of crap-ware I have to remove before the computer becomes usable. Those crap-ware cleanings are an integral part of my budhist training.
  And wait. What happens after I own it for a while? Will it slowly slow down and degrade until I have to buy a new one after a year? Or will it run just fine like I hear those "Lin-sux" computers do. Are you telling me I might be using the same computer for many years? What are we, savages?
8. Re:Not vapourware! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-10 15:58 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  "The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a UK registered charity (Registration Number 1129409)"
  - http://www.raspberrypi.org/sample-page
9. Re:Not vapourware! by Nethead · 2012-01-10 18:35 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Just what I need, Clippy asking if I need help setting up a BGP peer. :)
  
  --
  -- I have a private email server in my basement.
Worrying state of affairs by Nemyst · 2012-01-10 13:24 · Score: 5, Insightful

Reading the post (I really suggest everyone does so, it's an enlightening read), I have to say this sounds particularly worrying. The government and local manufacturers almost seemed intent on stopping them from doing the work locally. Does that even make sense?
I can understand higher costs; the West won't accept salaries below a certain threshold, there's unions, and I entirely respect that. However, the schedule problem is ridiculous. A plant thousands of kilometers away from your main sales point can be faster to ramp up production than the shop down the street? We're not speaking about a small-scale project, either! I find this utterly unbelieveable. No wonder so much of the manufacturing goes overseas.
And then the taxing part is plain and simply dumb. You can't control corporations, but that the government actively deters local production? That's like shooting yourself in the foot and wondering why it hurts.
The UK and the West as a whole (I'm entirely sure that the UK is not a special case here) should be ashamed.
1. Re:Worrying state of affairs by c0lo · 2012-01-10 13:48 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  And then the taxing part is plain and simply dumb. You can't control corporations, but that the government actively deters local production? That's like shooting yourself in the foot and wondering why it hurts.
  The UK and the West as a whole (I'm entirely sure that the UK is not a special case here) should be ashamed.
  For those too lazy to RTFA, UK is shooting in the foot using a big cannon then crying big of unemployment:
  
  I’d like to draw attention to one cost in particular that really created problems for us in Britain. Simply put, if we build the Raspberry Pi in Britain, we have to pay a lot more tax. If a British company imports components, it has to pay tax on those (and most components are not made in the UK). If, however, a completed device is made abroad and imported into the UK – with all of those components soldered onto it – it does not attract any import duty at all.
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
2. Re:Worrying state of affairs by artor3 · 2012-01-10 13:51 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Government taxes have little to do with it. When most of the manufacturing was moved to Asia, skill sets started to atrophy. It is very hard to find skilled manufacturing managers, engineers, or even operators in the West because there are few places to build up those skills. Likewise, when volumes are low, it's hard to justify the cutting edge machinery that allows for faster turn times and lower costs.
  When the corporate CEOs decided to line their pockets by offshoring, they didn't just screw over the people they fired. They made it damn near impossible to ever bring those jobs back. Things will continue to get worse until the Asian factories realize that they can just take the schematics and make and sell the latest iPad as their own, and there won't be a damn thing we can do about it, since we will be completely unable to manufacture it (or anything else) in the West. Even if we were to eliminate all minimum wage and pollution laws, we wouldn't be able to compete, because we've been training them and buying their high tech tools for decades. But the CEOs who made that choice for us will have already retired with their hundreds of millions of dollars, so what do they care?
3. Re:Worrying state of affairs by fermion · 2012-01-10 14:17 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  When I read the post, I find it an example of a firm that is either extremely uninformed or extremely idealistic about the work the are trying to do.
  First when one is creating a product to be mass manufactured, that fact must be designed in at the beginning, not tacked on at the end. It would be unrealistic to expect any product to be successful without working closely with the people who are going to manufacture it.
  Second, profitable competent manufacturers in the west is not going to have excess capacity and skilled labour just twiddling their thumbs waiting for customers. These firms are going to have as close to maximum production as possible, and, as new customers come in, they will adjust schedules or add capacity as needed. In places where standards are not high, and people can be taken off the street to run machines, or it acceptable to have machinery idle just waiting for orders, this is different. In any case the pricing structure for manufacturing is not surprising. China has a lot of excess capacity right now, and they are likely just trying to cover costs. Any firm that keeps excess capacity for quick order in the west is going to have to charge a premium.
  And the tax just seems like a red herring. Again, how does one enter into a venture without understanding the tax liabilities. I understand that firms do this all the time, and that is why so many go bankrupt, but really. One has a BOM, and one has access to people who know about this things. Getting to the end game and just then realizing that taxes, schedules, and shipping exists seems really lame.
  
  --
  "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
4. Re:Worrying state of affairs by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-10 14:32 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I'm and engineer and have worked with various CM's in the US and Asia and I have to say you have things exactly backwards. Western manufacturers have given up on the low end since they can not compete with Asia on cost. They focus on the more profitable high end boards and/or doing very quick turns in small and medium numbers. First, lead times are long because factories are already at capacity with more profitable work. Secondly prices are high because you are competing with higher end boards with more profit margin. Why sell you time when they can make twice the profit selling it to someone else? For the places that quote lower prices they are using you to fill dead space between other boards. The volume is low because they only have so much expected down time. Making larger quantities would delay their more profitable business.
5. Re:Worrying state of affairs by Ramin_HAL9001 · 2012-01-10 15:01 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  So if your boss reduced your wages to $0.50 an hour tomorrow, you wouldn't object?
  Not only that, but every employer in every company in your line of work reduced wages to $0.50 an hour at the same time, so leaving for a different job is out of the question. Then, as the businesses floundered, they started upping wages, but moving you into corporate owned housing which you rented out of your salary, preventing you from having enough free money to move to a different city and find a new job. Then the employers all started cutting corners in safety and working conditions, but you can't move elsewhere because you are too poor, and you can't complain because there is no union.
  Anti-union types who are also middle class, mostly the religiously right-wingers, are so naive its pathetic. They so easily forget our recent history. That's not to forget the mob influence on unions, if people genuinely care about their livelyhoods, and the communities based on the jobs they all have, then they need a healthy union, free from the influence of corruption.
6. Re:Worrying state of affairs by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-10 16:14 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I've never belonged to a union, and every boss I've had has paid me more each year. Market forces take care of that.
  Unions have nothing to do with the fact that companies cannot compete. Simple fact is you can bet if the corporation could off shore your job you would just be out of work like the millions who have already been displaced by cheap labour and the ability to outsource without intervention. We in the west live in a Walmart nation where you play the game or you are replaced,,,and any who think otherwise are fools or dreamchasers.
  To paraphrase Steve Ballmer "goods and the price of producing them is becoming worthless therefore the real future in the north american (read USA) economy is in ``intellectual propery`` (read software)
  The problem is once the imaginary intellectual property bubble bursts there will be no manufacturing economy left is the west to employ anyone...except perhaps funeral directors as more people reach their debt ceiling and find that getting down to earth without the parachute of a real job producing things is dicy at best.
  So I say bring on this device and let the kids hack away with OSS software and learn machine logic at its core. That is how the information age revolution started including the wizards of silcon valley who now have grown too fat and stupid to realize that closing down fundamental computer learning with a closed computing environment like Windows has done little more than stiffle creativity and real learning.
  I remember only too well my first cd of Visual Basic when it came out and how hard the ``programing guru`` teacher stressed why it was important to not have to know anything about how the computer actually worked...I just wish I could find it and post the stupid AVI file to show you how damaging the attitude expressed withing this $300 dollar mandatory learning tool for the college course I was taking really was...
  Sure it contained the compiler and all the software necessary to quickly learn how to do basic GUI hacks. But as far as actually teaching me anything useful for core chip programming and machine logic it was useless. And this course was advertised as an advanced computer programming course along with the mandatory MS access SQL software and books that cost $500.
  Essentially the first year of my learning was wasted by these jerks and I have spent the last 15 re-learning what I should have been taught in the first place and un learning how not to think about core processes!
7. Re:Worrying state of affairs by Animats · 2012-01-10 19:37 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I can understand higher costs; the West won't accept salaries below a certain threshold, there's unions, and I entirely respect that. However, the schedule problem is ridiculous.
  Yet not unusual. Last year I had some specialized paper rolls made for an obsolete printer. I talked to about 10 US firms. Some didn't want to make up 500 rolls, several didn't return phone calls and emails, one produced a low-quality sample, and one produced a good sample but quoted $10 a roll. That's in an industry, paper converting, which is in a severe recession.
  Then I tried looking on Alibaba, the search engine for offshort manufacturing. I found a company in Fujian, China, which asked for a $100 deposit to make two sample rolls. The samples were promptly delivered and worked. Then I ordered 500 rolls, at $1 each, which were again delivered promptly, although the shipping cost more than the paper.
  The firm in Fujian answered E-mails consistently and with useful answers within 24 hours, something few US companies seem to be able to do any more.
Sounds like a great learning opportunity by XxtraLarGe · 2012-01-10 13:46 · Score: 5, Interesting

I usually recommend a USB flash drive for my students in my Unix course (taught on Macs at the school), and leave it up to them which Linux distro to run at home from the Flash drive. With prices this low, I could almost make it a requirement for the course. I'll hold off to see how they fare though.

--
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Re:Is this really a big deal? by dgatwood · 2012-01-10 14:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

General purpose I/O pins normally only show up on expensive prototyping boards, not on "real" computers. I think the idea is that this will allow folks who couldn't otherwise afford such prototyping hardware to experiment with such things. I could easily see this being used for school science projects like BattleBots, those computer maze projects, and so on.
Similarly, real computers aren't small enough to trivially embed them into random crap around your house. I can think of lots of really fun pranks to pull with one of these and a small speaker.... :-D But then again, that's hobbyist stuff.

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Re:Is this really a big deal? by fotbr · 2012-01-10 14:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

For quick hack-it-together devices, I'd rather have a cheap linux computer with some gpio pins that I can access via something like /dev/port0 than an arduino. I'm not sure that this Raspberry Pi is the perfect solution to that, but it's closer to what I want than a arduino is, and it's a hell of a lot cheaper and easier to deal with than hacking something together out of an old laptop or mini-itx board.
If I'm going to go back to playing with microcontrollers, I'm going to be working from a bare chip, custom boards, and assembly language, because to me, that was fun.
Arduinos have their place. This thing has its place. There might be some overlap, but there's a lot of situations where you'd pick one over the other. Choice is good, right?
Re:Is this really a big deal? by sjames · 2012-01-10 14:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

If you have kids, I'll bet you'd be more willing to let them take a soldering iron to a $25 machine than a $250 machine.
Won't be $25, but it could be close by Weaselmancer · 2012-01-10 19:01 · Score: 4, Interesting

If you're looking for x86 SOC, Intel's new Medfield might be your best bet. Medfield article
If you were to give these the Raspberry Pi treatment...let's say a Pi board's cost is 1/2 cpu, 1/2 everything else. So the everything else is about...rounding up....let's say about 15 bucks. So add about $15 to whatever Intel charges for Medfield and you'd have your x86 Raspberry Pi.
It will be more expensive than $25 total, because...well...Intel is involved. No way a Medfield chipset will sell for ten bucks. But it would still be cheap and let you run Wine or other groovy stuff on a dinky cheap board.
It might be close though. I found this atom board for $57, and that's a full motherboard with a lot of expensive slots and heat sinks and the like. The actual Atom chip probably isn't more than $15-20 bucks. If Medfield is in this ballpark you could still be pretty cheap.

--
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
Re:Why can't they make it in UK ? by rtfa-troll · 2012-01-10 20:55 · Score: 4, Informative

Not economical?
They explain this at the end of the article. One of the major factors is that there tax reductions for importing manufactured systems but not for components!!! Write to your MP today.

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