Slashdot Mirror
Russian Official Implies Foul Play In Mars Probe Failure
Back in November, Russia launched the Phobos-Grunt probe on a mission to return a soil sample from Mars' largest moon. Sadly, the probe malfunctioned, and never left orbit. It's due to crash into the Indian Ocean this weekend. An anonymous reader points out some interesting comments from a Russian official, Vladimir Popovkin, who obliquely suggested that interference from other countries was a possible cause of the failure. Quoting:
"Mr. Popovkin’s remarks to the newspaper Izvestia were the first high-level suggestion of nefarious interference. A retired commander of Russia’s missile warning system had speculated in November that strong radar signals from installations in Alaska might have damaged the spacecraft. 'We don’t want to accuse anybody, but there are very powerful devices that can influence spacecraft now,' Mr. Popovkin said in the interview. 'The possibility they were used cannot be ruled out.' ... Mr. Popovkin did not directly implicate the United States in the interview. But he said 'the frequent failure of our space launches, which occur at a time when they are flying over the part of Earth not visible from Russia, where we do not see the spacecraft and do not receive telemetric information, are not clear to us,' an apparent reference to the Americas."
Russia should just admit to its failures, and move on. From what I've read, Russia's high-technology infrastructure is held together with band-aids® and chewing gum. They should concentrate upon repairing their space exploration foundation, then make the attempts to explore Mars.
Yes, but the question is where does the stupidity lie? Is it in naively blasting out radar signals, or in not properly shielding your sensitive spacecraft? Probably both, but I'd favour the latter, since they know such possibilities exist.
Basically the guy is blaming HAARP (it happened over Alaska when we couldn't see it).
Right. Now, how did we manage to get the satellite to point it's solar panels away from the sun? It's just the standard post Vodka blame game. I don't think anyone is really worried about it.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
And with that goes blaming everyone except yourself for your public failures.
When science from another country fails, it is still a tragedy to the US. We are not in a cold war any more - the loss of a sattelite, or a probe, is a huge loss for everyone. Russia may be upset but unfortunately it would not be in US interests to intentionally destroy a probe that we cannot ourselves replicate (due to lack of funds or lack of interest.)
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
Laughable. (Apparently, so is their space program)
Well it's not like their joke of a space program put up the first satellite in orbit, the first man (and woman) in space, the first person to orbit the earth, the first moon probe, the first Mars probe, the first Venus probe, or the first space station--or are currently the only country in the world with the capability of launching humans into space. They're SUCH a joke! Let's all laugh at their weak-ass space program. Ha ha ha.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Wait, Alaska is pretty damn close to Russian territory. How would they not not be able to see their satellite while it was over HAARP? An honest question, adblock doesn't seem to be letting me get past the paywall like it usually does, so I can't read TFA.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
> It's just the standard post Vodka blame game. I don't think anyone is really worried about it.
The problem is, tossing blame like this is the first refuge of incompetent government. The next is constructing enemies, and then finally war. Redirect the rage of the people you ruined to someone else, and rather then remove you from power they will grant you even more.
Given how Russia has been behaving recently this is very worrying. If they have to blame America because their probe is backwards, then what about when something bigger fails? How long before the people have a (renewed) hate of the USA?
It's not a step to a new cold war, but it disconcertingly similar to the behavior we saw then.
Think about this for a moment. What possible interest could the United States government have in a probe heading to Mars. We are not in a space race with Russia anymore. If anything we should be sabotaging China's space program. Then again if their space program is anything like their high speed rail program I think they can manage for themselves.
"We are just a war away from Amerikastan. When god vs god the undoing of man." Dave Mustaine
Since HAARP has HF, VHF and UHF, and not satellite microwave systems, the stupidity is clearly on a Russian looking for a scapegoat, who has joined the ranks of scientifically ignorant wingnuts who blame HAARP for everything that was blamed on Satan and Witchcraft 400 years ago
Does the entire Iranian populace hate us? Do all the North Koreans hate us? Or is it just more convenient to believe that they do to make it easier when we start killing them...
No, you had it right the first time. The regime in those nations know that they can earn much more loyal support through (construction of) a common enemy than they can through any amount of good deeds (except perhaps the deed of constructing a free and democratic society, but i digress.) They do indeed cultivate hatred at every opportunity. You are correct that not everyone will fall for it, but enough of them will to generate the support the regime needs to do basically whatever they want. See Mccarthyism for an example, if you think construction of an enemy by any means necessary in order to garner supporters is a skill only dictatorial regimes posses. This is a tactic that nearly every government has used at some point, and as such it is very important not to downplay its presence or its effect.
Maintaining perfectly fixed position (storms aside) isn't difficult. Manouvering thrusters can turn to thrust in any direction. Just throw in a GPS receiver and you can stay in place to within a couple of meters easily.
I doubt Putin has much to do with it. Conspiracy theories have always been very popular in that part of the world. It's unusual to see a publich official spouting off in that manner, but it's not particularly surprising either.
This is one of the reasons why Russia is still best considered a second world nation. And will be for some time.
Let's take a closer look at this list:
1) Sputnik 1 (first satellite): 1957
2) Yuri Gagarin (first man in space, first orbit): 1961
3) Valentina Tereshkova (first woman in space): 1963
4) Luna 2 (first [successful] moon probe): 1959
5) According to Wikipedia, every Soviet Mars mission prior to Mariner 4 (first Mars fly-by [US]) failed.
6) According to Wikipedia, every Soviet Venus mission prior to Mariner 2 (first Venus fly-by [US]) failed.
7) Salyut 1 (first space station): 1971
So other than their currently operating Soyuz craft, the most recent entry on your list is over 40 years old. I understand the point you were trying to make, but you have to keep in mind that things change, and the current Soviet space program is not nearly as noteworthy as the space program you described.
You don't think that those places feature actual armed slave drivers who are holding hostage every single productive person in the country, do you? There will always be dissidents but by and large those nations have a stable base of people who genuinely agree with the regime about how they should feel regarding outside aggressors (like the US). Why do you think they take such pains to control all forms of media? A regime that requires as many armed guards as citizens is not going to last very long, they are very apt at using fear as inspiration. What better way to stave off rebellion than to convince the citizenry that the only thing worse than the current regime is the regime that wants to overthrow it?
The Western powers were quite right in the attempt to remove the madmen from power and restore civilization. Regrettably, they acted without firm determination and let the red monsters establish their empire of evil.
this in no way sounds like the typical Russian hot-air.
Why in fuck's sake would we (a) sabotage a scientific mission, and (b) piss off the people who carry us to the ISS?
Chances are reasonable, intentional or otherwise, one of these stations may have unduly influenced the operation of their rocket.
Do you have *any* rational evidence to support this hooch-addled paranoia?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
"Chances are reasonable, intentional or otherwise, one of these stations may have unduly influenced the operation of their rocket."
Actually that's insane. What is the (a) physics of doing so? (Heating the atmosphere over a wide patch is what they do to study ionosphere) What's the cross section of power applied directly on the satellite? Notice that when you want to aim something precisely (and hitting a satellite in orbit requires LOTS of precision) you need to use short wavelengths, like say an optical laser, and then you have to precisely compensate for atmospheric aberrations. The radio research facilities instead use wavelengths of a number of meters long, which of course diffracts and spreads out just a wee bit more.
And then what is (b) the motivation for doing so? In detail. Screwing with a scientific probe going to Mars? Dr Strangelove types aren't particularly impressed or care about some nerd spacecraft. What's in it for The Conspirators?
c) "there are powerful interests in the US who absolutely do not want to rely on Russia for space access" -- but are apparently insufficiently powerful to get the USA to spend the money to fund ongoing operations and develop the next generation simultaneously. Well, since in your conspiracy theory the US *is* in fact dependent on Russia, then why sabotage Russian rockets? Why not sabotage Russian rockets only after the US gets its space access back?
And besides, the US is is not dependent on Russia for space access overall: the military and intelligence communities happily continue to buy launches on expensive Boeing/Lockheed ULA rockets, it's just that NASA can't afford (isn't given funding for) these ones and will have to hitch rides on bargain basement SpaceX hardware in a few years.