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DNS Provision Pulled From SOPA

New submitter crvtec sends this excerpt from CNet: "Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas), one of the biggest backers of the Stop Online Piracy Act, today said he plans to remove the Domain Name System blocking provision. 'After consultation with industry groups across the country,' Smith said in a statement released by his office, 'I feel we should remove (DNS) blocking from the Stop Online Piracy Act so that the [U.S. House Judiciary] Committee can further examine the issues surrounding this provision.'"

232 comments

  1. No, he didn't by trogdor8667 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    He said he'd postpone it until further research had been done... In other words, pass the bill now and then shove it down our throats later.

    1. Re:No, he didn't by trogdor8667 · · Score: 4

      My bad. That was the ProtectIP one, even though this still sounds like the same thing.

    2. Re:No, he didn't by Ouchie · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The research is whether congressional hipocracy is exempt. It appears that under the law the congressman's website would have been permanently shut down for copyright infringment.

      The background image on Chairman Lamar Smith own website was being used without the consent of the photographer.

      --
      "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." ~Ozzy Osborne
    3. Re:No, he didn't by Ouchie · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Update

      The background image is now gone.

      --
      "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." ~Ozzy Osborne
    4. Re:No, he didn't by drpimp · · Score: 1

      Or maybe GoDaddy called him and said they were losing customers so they would have to cut jobs if they lost more share of the market. So they filled his back pocket with some cash and called it a day?

      --
      -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
    5. Re:No, he didn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said he'd postpone it until further research had been done... In other words, pass the bill now and then shove it down our throats later.

      Yes, but at that time Lamar Smith will have replaced Cary Sherman as President and CEO of the RIAA, so you can't blame him then.

    6. Re:No, he didn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hipocracy. Rule by horses?

    7. Re:No, he didn't by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At the very least, this is probably a case of "Here's a bill for like 5 things you hate, alright twist my arm, I'll drop one of them to get the four I really wanted, that's reasonable right?"

  2. Hm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Just a little better but what about the IP-blocking part or deep packet inspection?

    1. Re:Hm. by hedwards · · Score: 4, Funny

      Honestly, I think that if Lamar would get a few deep packet inspections he'd probably be less of a useless asshole.

    2. Re:Hm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you RTFA, you'd see he didn't say anything about the other parts of the bill.

    3. Re:Hm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno... I rekon after a few too many deep packet inspections his asshole might be a little more useless....

    4. Re:Hm. by andydread · · Score: 1

      lol +1

    5. Re:Hm. by hedwards · · Score: 0

      In that case he'd probably wind up with a santorum.

  3. so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    See subject.

    1. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The idea is to back-pedal a little bit on this bill so we heave a sigh of relief over the DNS part and don't notice what they left in.

      Next time around they do DNS thing plus something far worse. We protest the "worse", they back-pedal a bit on that and DNS blocking gets passed amidst all the sighs of relief.

      Rinse, repeat until they get everything they want.

      Bottom line: Unless we defeat the WHOLE of this bill and get a few morons kicked out of office then we might as well just hand the keys of the Internet over to the MAFIAA. They'll get them eventually if we don't.

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Apothem · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Honestly, I dont think anyone can breathe any sighs of relief until all the current politicians are either replaced by people who are younger and know what's going on, or are heavily educated in the ways that this shit works,

    3. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not enough to change the people. We have to change the system. We need publicly financed elections, some form of preference voting, and a "no confidence" option with actual teeth on every ballot.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by cloakedpegasus · · Score: 1

      I like the tone of your comment. However I would have to continue it with something along the lines of: What are you nerds doing to keep this cycle from continuing? It feels like the slashdot crowd has the right feeling about this, if only we did some follow through...

    5. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by ChaoticCoyote · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Excuse me, sonny boy, but "younger" isn't the problem. Some of us old folk (aka, fifty in my case) know what the hell is going on here: We're all being frelled by morons and ignorati with this bill and other pieces of stupid legisilation.

      I don't give a damn about who's on my lawn (literally, kids walk thru my yard all the time) -- I want these damned politicians out of my head, thank you very much.

    6. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by wickerprints · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That statement assumes that those elected officials currently in office and favor such legislation do so out of ignorance. As has been noted, it's not technological ignorance that motivates the push for SOPA: it's money. We're talking LOTS of money, offered by the entertainment industry lobbyists.

      Everyone needs to wake up and realize that we don't live in a representative system of government. We live in a plutocracy, in which government policy is shaped solely by those who have the money and power to buy it. The Citizens United SCOTUS decision was not so much evidence of such bribery as it was a reflection of the brazen impunity with which corporations now feel they may act. Same thing with SOPA and Protect-IP. The government knows EXACTLY what it's doing. Don't think for one second that they're just clueless, doddering old fools who barely understand email. They know full well the consequences of their actions--they just don't care, because they're being paid off. Most Americans in their place would do the exact same thing.

    7. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Obama is any indicator, it might move us ever so slightly but not fully in that direction. Nevermind tech. He's eased up a bit on drug laws; but he hasn't radicly overturned them the way some people hoped. I'm waiting for somebody to stand up at one of those "town hall" meetings and ask him, "Mr. President, how do you think your life would have turned out if you actually got a criminal record for your cocaine use, and how does that influence your stand on drug policy?". The first part is rhetorical. We all know what would have happened to his career if he had actually served time. There was a guy from my HS (White, BTW) who did time for a very small ammount. I'd like to see him run for office.

    8. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Mashiki · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Democracy is always 10-20 years behind technology."

      I'd quote the guy's name but you probably wouldn't know who he is, so no point. He's one of Canada's leading expert witnesses, in both handling physical and electronic evidence. That includes wire taps, electronic communication, and so forth. The cold reality is, government is always playing catch up, the problem is, in this case they're seeing the internet as a "printing press" moment. If you go back, you'll see similar panicking over the masses having the ability to print whatever they want.

      The difference this time is that people can slow them down and rap their knuckles over it. Otherwise you get a mishmash of laws that do nobody any good or go too far in what they're supposed to do, and give overly broad powers, instead of 'just enough' to law, and in other cases "idiots".

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    9. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to be cliche... but they need to be hit where it hurts. Primarily their wallets and as a secondary, their ego's and pride. They need to be shown just who the fuck runs this internet. No one and everyone. The weak shall perish, or in this case, the stupidly ignorant and greedy old bastards. This IS evolution. Make Darwin proud.

      They want to squeeze the net for every last dollar, don't let them. DDoS any and every commercial site owned by them. Compromise any and every database to deter anyone from doing business with them. Get every single occurrence of "hollywood accounting" and equivalent dirty deeds made FULLY public. SPAM THAT SHIT IF NEED BE! Sue them for any and every reason both legit and non. In addition to those last two items, make stuff up. Lies suit them just fine. It's time for them to be the victims of their own favorite tricks for a change. Get trigger happy. There is no easy solution, no quick kill, rather they should die from a thousand cuts. Slow and painful, it's only fitting. That's how they roll. No mercy.

      Of course, I suggest this as a last resort. Give those in power a chance to kill these bills, a chance to redeem themselves, but if not........Doom.

      (captcha: advice) ;)

    10. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll just tack it on the next military expense authorization bill that comes along. No one dares to stand in the way of those.

    11. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      I'm 50ish too.

      and we are young, by politician years.

      or dog years? I'm not sure, anymore. (woof!)

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    12. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by EvanED · · Score: 5, Informative

      We have it. It's called "voting."

      Gee, I wonder if "preference voting" might be a specific term for something which allows votes to express more nuanced opinions than first-past-the-post plurality votes do and could lead to better outcomes, more viable third parties, and other beneficial features?

      Nah, it must just be a synonym for voting.

    13. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. I do not want to wake up and work part of every day to provide campaign cash to someone who says I'm evil for thinking that it's not government's role to make sure everyone gets the same stuff regardless of whether or how they work. I do not want to be forced to support a candidate that says I'm inherently wrong for being, say, male. Or that I'm evil for thinking that people who break the law by sneaking into the country and lying on federal paperwork should get free stuff that I spend other parts of my day working to pay for. You're welcome to give such people campaign cash, but don't force me to.

      All of those have nothing to do with what he was talking about...

      I have nothing to say about the voting part, but

      You do sound like someone who would like California, though. That's working out really well, isn't it?

      I'm getting the feeling that you're calling Northern California all of California. They do end up with a lot of say on some things up, but you would probably like Southern California, actually (which is the reason for Prop 8 among several other policies).

    14. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I did not know this kind of thing growing up. that was the 70's and some of the 80's and there was no mass communication other than the boob tube, for us. it spoke and we watched. at school, the approved textbooks gave us the 'view' on things. we really didn't know any better! the disney view of life they rammed down our throats (cops are trustable good guys, politicians care about us, judges and lawyers are honest. ok, the last one was never ever taught, lol) is mostly what we knew. dissent was not allowed and effectively was filtered.

      but NOW, its really different. kids at school can hear the bullshit preaching by the teachers who are paid to carry the company line and not really tell things how they are - then they can come home, login and read the real truth by people, totally unfiltered and make up their own minds! the info is NOW THERE for them. it wasn't for me when I was growing up.

      this is a huge difference from now compared to ALL of mankind's past. ALL of it. for the first time in earth history, people can directly exchange ideas even if they are not approved ideas by their current state. that's HUGE. and its hugely scary to those in usual old-style control positions.

      my point is that there is hope for the future because the next generation will be at least potentially informed about how the world really runs. they can possibly make it different. if they do not, they have a LOT of blame on their hands. we have half the blame (us older guys) but the new ones can see how bad the architecture is and try to correct it when they get power, when they grow up.

      I don't see change in my generation or lifetime. but I would hope for it for the next one.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    15. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Rozzin · · Score: 1

      Excuse me, sonny boy, but "younger" isn't the problem. Some of us old folk (aka, fifty in my case) know what the hell is going on here: We're all being frelled by morons and ignorati with this bill and other pieces of stupid legisilation.

      "frelled"? I guess you are old--still using Farscape slang? The kids have moved on to Battlestar (`reimagined'), and the preferred euphemism for "fuck" is now "frak"....

      --
      -rozzin.
    16. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fra(c)k is not from the reimagined version. It's from the original.

      1979 vintage.

    17. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      voteing?

      VOTING?

      really - is that the best you got?

      cause you aint got much if that's the old sloan you're dragging out.

      quick: kang or kodos? which one? WHICH ONE? come on, pick. you vote counts!

      oh be serious. are you really that dumb or just trolling?

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    18. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by ScentCone · · Score: 0, Troll

      you vote counts! ... oh be serious

      You're right. No votes are actually involved in picking city, county, and state legislators, muncipal, county, and state executives, congresssional representatives and senators, and president. When we count them, they're all fake, and aren't actually related to humans casting votes. Your congressman is actually picked by secret members of the Trilateral Commission as they fly over in black helicopters deploying mind-control devices made by Haliburton on specs from the Rothschilds.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    19. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We threw out the worse where I live, Rick Santrum. We voted in a co-sponsor of PIPA instead. The worse is now a presidential candidate.

      Sometimes voting them out backfires.

    20. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Fned · · Score: 1

      Fifty is quite young in Congress.

    21. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Canada, the public financing of the political parties is divided on a vote % basis.

      So you work to pay for the candidate you voted for. Quite reasonable.

    22. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

      Well, they're doddering old fools who barely understand email but they have a finely honed sense of Big Brother and all the fun that flows from there.

      --
      My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
    23. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      "or are heavily educated in the ways that this shit works"

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    24. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by andydread · · Score: 1

      Lamar the despicable needs to be REMOVED from office... along with Patrick Leahy, Howard Berman, Orin Hatch and Joe BIden. I am sure I am missing some others. All these clowns are agents of the RIAA?MPAA. They don't give a DAMN about the artists. All they care about are campaign contributions form big money.

    25. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      why is preferential voting, per se, unconstitutional?

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    26. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by complete+loony · · Score: 3, Informative

      In Australia, everybody votes and (obviously) everybody pays taxes. The candidates that you actually vote for, get paid $2.31191 (+CPI) per vote that they get, and only if they get at least 4% of the total votes (eg Final 2010 federal election payment to political parties and candidates.
      Would you really complain if $2 of your taxes went to the candidate that you actually voted for?

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    27. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure if you've been awake through the last several elections... Most politicians pick a single cause crusade and ride that all the way through. That works because most people don't want to put forth the effort to find the right candidate - they want an issue they can stand behind or against.

      Perhaps you would also recall some history on what the world was like when the constitution was written - and how much of our current electoral system has changed since the constitution was written.

      --
      +1 Disagree
    28. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Fjandr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not in any way. It's an abused stretch of the concept of "one man, one vote," though it doesn't actually change that. You don't actually get more than one vote counted, but for people who are mathematically illiterate it's trotted out as an excuse for why any change to the way votes are held is bad.

      First past the post is about the worst method for choosing a palatable leader, and its failure is more clear as elections become more partisan. For having accurate minority representation it fails entirely for any minority which is not at least close in size to the majority party.

    29. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Gorrammit, there's more to life than ruttin' sci-fi slang.

      --
      +1 Disagree
    30. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      leader ... minority representation

      Are you even listening to yourself, and did you sleep through 2008?

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    31. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No. I do not want to wake up and work part of every day to provide campaign cash to someone who says I'm evil for thinking that it's not government's role to make sure everyone gets the same stuff regardless of whether or how they work. I do not want to be forced to support a candidate that says I'm inherently wrong for being, say, male. Or that I'm evil for thinking that people who break the law by sneaking into the country and lying on federal paperwork should get free stuff that I spend other parts of my day working to pay for. You're welcome to give such people campaign cash, but don't force me to.

      The problem is that there's really no other choice that preserves democracy. Either you spend taxpayer dollars to ensure that everyone who meets some reasonable set of criteria (e.g. getting n signatures) is funded equally from the public treasury or you have elections in which the politicians are inherently for sale.

      This is one of the few issues that is absolutely black and white. Giving money to a politician is a bribe, and those who give the most money will inherently have more influence. There's just no good way to prevent that. Public funding prevents corruption precisely because you are forced to support not just your candidate, but also everyone else, thus ensuring that politicians have no incentive to try to raise more money than their competitor. Without that built-in leveling, you cannot have a truly free election.

      You may want to run your state or your country like a PTA meeting, but the founders had a much better grip on the tyrrany and foolishness of the simple majority and capricious elections. You do sound like someone who would like California, though. That's working out really well, isn't it?

      The founding fathers could not possibly have envisioned a world in which the cost to run for President would be equal to an average person's salary over eleven thousand years (based on 2011 U.S. median income). They did their best to make sure that we would not end up in a plutocracy, but we managed to end up there anyway. So clearly, those founding fathers you so are so enamored with didn't know everything....

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    32. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by tragedy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry to burst your bubble, but different methods of voting aren't in any way constitutional. Simple plurality voting, which is used in all US States is the absolute perfect method for representing the will of an electorate when there are 0, 1, or 2 choices. For 3 choices and above, it's the worst method. This is a self-evident fact to anyone who has actually studied the issue. That simple plurality method is not specified anywhere in the constitution for the general public, only for the electoral college. The constitution basically says that, for the presidential election, the electoral college members cast their lots for the candidate they choose (the constitution doesn't guarantee that they can't just pick whoever they like, although some states have laws requiring it) and that the candidate who gets the majority wins the election. For House and Senate (since the 17th amendment at least), the constitution says that the members will be elected by "the people". Aside from that, there are parts of the constitution specifying that women and minorities get to vote as well and establishing the minimum voting age as 18 (States can constitutionally allow people younger than 18 to vote, but they can't withhold the vote from anyone 18 or older on the grounds of age). I think there's some bits in there about poll taxes and so forth as well. There is however, absolutely nothing saying how elections are to be carried out. Maybe the writers thought there was only one way. In any case, constitutionally, the States can conduct elections in any way that meets the requirement that Congressmen are elected by the people and for the President, they can appoint Electors any way they feel like. That's right, constitutionally, the States don't even have to hold popular elections to appoint their Electors. That falls to state law.

    33. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Maybe you didn't notice, but Biden was removed from office. Except in the rare event of a tie in the Senate, the VP doesn't get a vote on much of anything unless the President snuffs it.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    34. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      i think he was referring to greens, not blacks.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    35. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need publicly financed elections

      No. I do not want to wake up and work part of every day to provide campaign cash to someone who says I'm evil for thinking that it's not government's role to make sure everyone gets the same stuff regardless of whether or how they work. I do not want to be forced to support a candidate that says I'm inherently wrong for being, say, male. Or that I'm evil for thinking that people who break the law by sneaking into the country and lying on federal paperwork should get free stuff that I spend other parts of my day working to pay for. You're welcome to give such people campaign cash, but don't force me to.

      The flip side is that some of everyone's money would also got to politicians you like. But frankly, the argument of "I can't stand the thought of an extremely tiny part of my tax money going to someone I disagree with" misses the point. The point is to reduce the affect of money on elections and to reduce the money spent (in large part wasted IMO) on elections. You may not like a tiny fraction (really, really, tiny BTW) of your tax money going to someone you don't like. But apparently, you don't mind much larger parts of your tax money and money in general being funnelled by government to the already extremely rich (big corporations and ~.05% of the human population). This will continue as long as money wins elections (e.g. unless people stop being human and advertising stops working). Public financing is an attempt to control our current tend towards plutocracy. It may not be the best choice. I would certainly like to here other options. And, of course, you may think that plutocracy makes for a better society (or disagree that we have serious plutocratic tendencies in the U.S.).

    36. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Those last two sentences refer to two different things. We have more than one type of election in the US, last I checked. There's one with a single winner for the leader of an entire branch of government, and others which are designed to pick representatives of an area smaller than the entire country.

      And if you believe Obama is an actual minority representative, you've just lost all credibility for being a rational person.

    37. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hey, isn't that what the plot of Deus Ex 4?

    38. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      He was promoted to a different office from which it would also be nice to see him removed.

      The original post is fine the way it is.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    39. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And there's NEVER a tie in the Senate. For anything to even come to a vote in the Senate, there need to be 60 Senators voting to for cloture.

    40. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you really complain if $2 of your taxes went to the candidate that you actually voted for?

      Abso-fucking-lutely, I sure would.

      One of the 'sacred' qualities of voting is that your vote is anonymous, and cannot be tied back to you.

    41. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      Thank you! Yes!
      If there were a "moderate to top of of page" option I would give all my mod points to make sure what you're saying was the first thing all users see upon viewing this topic.

      Please don't let up, people. The politicians certainly won't.

      --
      -
    42. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Under their system, it cannot be tied directly back to you. The vote has no way of being identified as yours, but for obvious reasons it can be identified as for a candidate, hence they use that to determine where the campaign cash goes. Of course, it's fairly obvious you're just being disingenuous, as the way the system works is blindingly goddamn obvious.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    43. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Dripdry · · Score: 1

      While I agree with much of what you say, and think it contributes to the discussion...

      I don't think waiting is enough. Too many of my generation, with a lot of help from the internet, seem quite convinced the world revolves around them. Aso, I posit there are still too many of my generation who are moving into politics and positions of power (I know at least a dozen people who are or are trying to become lawyers...) who feel that they are infinitely better than most of their peers, and the internet just seems to prove it to them.
      Sure, the internet's knowledge is useful, but it's a self-tailored sense of knowledge and the world. If anything I worry that people in the future will be even worse than now, hamstrung by their private vision of themselves and the world.

      In terms of politicians being different in 20-30 years, I've seen the worldview and personality of a few friends change, and am horrified that the people I used to be so close to seem to have become twisted, half-crazed shyster lunatics who ACTUALLY believe their own bullshit. Three people, one a politician, one a lawyer moving into politics, and one a lobbyist.
      I think it's the system, personally. Maybe it's the stakes being so high... I don't know. Waiting another 20-30 years for change seems like a mistake, I don't think basic human fallacies such as biases, blind faith, and selective reasoning are going to change that quickly. However, here's to hoping!

      People thirst for power and/or money, I get that, but it's time for the old farts to get the hell out of the way. The world is changing too fast for them, their attempt to distort reality in their favor is destroying Our Republic.

      --
      -
    44. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hilariously, there are mathematical criteria for voting fairness, and even by these criteria the way we do it is less fair than any other system ever proposed.

    45. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ugh, you're a special breed of idiot aren't you?

    46. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 2

      If the point went any further over your head it would enter low-earth orbit.

    47. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by darkonc · · Score: 1
      No. There's nothing unconstitutional about alternate voting methods. Show me in the constitution where First Past The Post is mandated. (I'm Canadian, so) I'm not even sure that the constitution mandates that the electoral college that elects the president needs to be elected (much less assigned all-or-nothing).

      It's like Muslims that say that Burkas are demanded by Islam, and women aren't allowed to drive, go to school or own property. Fact is that Mohammed's first wife was his boss. He didn't Inherit her business until after she died. His second wife (who he brought up from a pre-teen) was a major scholar of early Islam and, after his death, became general who led an army of thousands first-generation Muslims in battle. .... Can't drive a car; my ass.

      There's custom, and then there's actual law. Figure out which is which.

      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
    48. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      This is one of the few issues that is absolutely black and white. Giving money to a politician is a bribe, and those who give the most money will inherently have more influence. There's just no good way to prevent that.

      I've heard at least one clever way to handle that problem. Make campaign bribes anonymous. I think it was Lessig who proposed it. All bribes go into a big pot and are revocable. That way even if the politician sees you put your bribe into the pot, he can't know for sure if you took it back out later on.

      That gets you past the whole "bribes are speech" thing because people are not restricted at all in the amount of bribes they can give. They can even claim credit for the bribes they give, just can't prove it.

      Apparently something similar was tried for the election of judges in Florida. It worked so well that campaign contributions effectively dropped to nothing.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    49. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by EuclideanSilence · · Score: 2

      The problem is that there's really no other choice that preserves democracy. Either you spend taxpayer dollars to ensure that everyone who meets some reasonable set of criteria (e.g. getting n signatures) is funded equally from the public treasury or you have elections in which the politicians are inherently for sale.

      This is one of the few issues that is absolutely black and white. Giving money to a politician is a bribe, and those who give the most money will inherently have more influence. There's just no good way to prevent that. Public funding prevents corruption precisely because you are forced to support not just your candidate, but also everyone else, thus ensuring that politicians have no incentive to try to raise more money than their competitor. Without that built-in leveling, you cannot have a truly free election.

      So if politicians must be publicly funded, then what constitutes an illegal bribe? If a guy gets a good deal buying a used car, is that a bribe? If someone buys a hooker for a politician, is that a bribe? Are birthday presents from family a bribe? From friends? From "friends"? Are you going to make a list of what financial transactions politicians are allowed to make and who they are allowed to make them with?

      Trying to prevent politicans from being funded privately has 3 real problems:
      1) It's impossible. Everyone has to buy something from someone sometime.
      2) It's against the idea of freedom of "oh so many things", like speech (expressing your political opinion with money), association (who are you allowed to buy from), equality of law (you can sell your car to your boss but not to your congressman), etc
      3) It doesn't address the real problem at all.

      The real problem is that there is something to buy from politicians. Bailouts, buyouts, specials laws for one class of people (examples : minorities, certain income classes, etc), random taxes like a god damn 10% tax on getting tan: http://money.cnn.com/2010/03/24/news/economy/tanning_tax/

      These are what are turning legislation into a giant auction. The solution isn't to regulate who is getting what money, that just makes things worse. It's just more potential money-laws up in the air for grabs. The solution is that when ANYONE votes in favor of special provision for any group, that that person gets voted out of office immediately. It should enrage the population. Vote for someone who isn't for sale. If your incumbent got bought, vote for anyone else, even if they support killing baby kittens.

    50. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      how can u blame the founding fathers for the fact the future presidents ignore the constitution as they see fit?

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    51. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      I'm not saying to wait a few decades; but I am saying that I don't expect to *see* change in less than a few.

      for one, slow change is more palatable. less 'french' if you get my meaning. its more likely to go over well if its more gradual. if that's even possible.

      or, things could just get so bad that people do revolt. in which case change also will take a while to settle in.

      I have given up on the over-50 crowd, in terms of them changing their world views. for one, they are the owners (property, business, politics, media). and for second, being older means you really can't turn on a dime. its very rare and even more rare for conservatives (again, 'the owners').

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    52. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting idea. I thought there was an issue with ads being the expensive part and contributors (usually through PACs) can produce ads without being officially tied to the candidate. Maybe it's different for presidential races because there is so much more money involved?

    53. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      Yes, the ads are the expensive part. But the whole 'not tied to the candidate" thing of super-pacs is a restriction on the "free speech" that is equivalent to the anonymity requirement of Lessig's proposal. The difference being that the "not tied to the candidate" thing is basically nothing but a fiction in practice.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    54. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      So if politicians must be publicly funded, then what constitutes an illegal bribe?

      That's an easy one, actually.

      If a guy gets a good deal buying a used car, is that a bribe?

      Was it a better deal than the dealer would have given someone else? If so, yes, if not, no.

      If someone buys a hooker for a politician, is that a bribe?

      Was it his bachelor party? If so, we might let it slide. If not, yes.

      Are birthday presents from family a bribe? From friends?

      Would those people have done the same thing for him/her were he/she not in that position? If so, then no. If not, yes.

      From "friends"?

      See above.

      Are you going to make a list of what financial transactions politicians are allowed to make and who they are allowed to make them with?

      Of course not. By getting rid of private campaign financing, you eliminate the vast majority of things that would be considered bribes in one fell swoop. Every other type of bribe tends to be club-me-on-the-head obvious at that point because it will stick out like a sore thumb instead of getting lost in the noise of campaign contributions.

      1) It's impossible. Everyone has to buy something from someone sometime.

      And you think those someones should be allowed to give preferential treatment to politicians? As far as I'm concerned, all business dealings with politicians must be arms-length, and all gifts must be publicly declared and scrutinized. It almost sounds like you actually want corruption.

      2) It's against the idea of freedom of "oh so many things", like speech (expressing your political opinion with money), association (who are you allowed to buy from), equality of law (you can sell your car to your boss but not to your congressman), etc

      Bullshit. First, you're making ludicrous assumptions about business dealings. We already have a legal definition for arms-length agreements, and any politician engaging in any other "deal" is almost by definition corrupt.

      Second, regarding free speech, nowhere in the Constitution does it say that money == speech. We've twisted the Constitution to interpret it that way. When the founding fathers wrote it, Freedom of Speech meant shouting in the court square or writing letters. Freedom of the Press meant paying a printer a couple of days' pay, not paying a TV network a couple of centuries' pay. We've allowed lots of grey areas to creep into our definitions of these things that simply did not exist two hundred years ago. Arguably some of those grey areas are useful to protect, but that does not mean that we should be forced to blindly protect them without limitation and at all costs, up to and including the loss of democracy itself.

      Third, equality of law has never existed for public officials. Period. I can't go up to my congressperson and legally say, "I'll give you a million bucks if you'll vote against SOPA" any more than a politician can give a police officer $500 for looking the other way after a drunk driving accident. Either one is bribery of an official, and is quite illegal. In the United States, to my knowledge, we have never had anything approaching perfect equality of law when it comes to public officials. Many anti-bribery laws exist in English Common Law, with some dating back as far as the 1500s. We can't possibly get away from such a core founding principle of our government and hope to have any shred of democracy left.

      3) It doesn't address the real problem at all.

      Pray tell, what would that real problem be, if it isn't the corrupting influence of hundreds of billions of dollars in politics?

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    55. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 2

      They did their best to make sure that we would not end up in a plutocracy, but we managed to end up there anyway.

      Given that property qualifications for voting were the norm when the Constitution was enacted, and for some years afterward -- and really started to go away at about the same time that those who had been at the Constitutional Convention were dying off -- I think it's hard to argue that the FF's were particularly opposed to plutocracy. We, the people, managed to dismantle it once. We can do it again, if we have the will.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
    56. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      A religion is defined by it's followers: Custom and law are one and the same.

    57. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      But there is nothing to stop a studio going up to a congressperson and pointing out that they will donate to politicians who advance their business interests, and ergo will donate to any politician who expresses their support for SOPA. It isn't bribery, but it achieves the same result.

    58. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      The cant-stand argument seems to be just part of human instinct. I've seen it come up a lot in internet debate, from left and right alike.

    59. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      I think yours is an amazing post, and I must commend you for the words you practically took from my mouth. However, I take issues with the last sentence:

      Most Americans in their place would do the exact same thing.

      No, the great majority of Americans wouldn't, because they aren't psychopaths. But psychopaths have a tendency to percolate onto positions of power (because they are ready to do whatever it takes, manipulating and lying to the greatest extent). Hence you end up with a congress full of people more than willing to bend the truth and their own "principles", if it makes them any profit and advances their position of power.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    60. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      if you believe Obama is an actual minority representative, you've just lost all credibility

      What are you talking about - skin color majority/minority, or idealogical majority/minority?

      He's a minority in the first case, and (as of the election that put him in that job) in the majority in the second case. There's only one president. Are you really saying that the person with the less popular views should get the job?

      Regardless, let's look at legislative elections, shall we? We've got people from all sorts of genetic, cosmetic, and philosophical backgrounds in the national congress and the senate. Likewise at the state levels. We've got avowed socialists, libertarians, middle-lefties, right-wing kooks, far-left kooks, business men, big-labor sycophants, PTA-mom-types, military people, pacifists - take your pick. People of African, Asian, Native American, Central/South American, Middle-Eastern, Mediterranean, Easter/Northern/You-Name-It European Heritage ... so even someone who is quota-minded like you should be happy.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    61. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Siridar · · Score: 1

      I KNEW IT!

    62. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's hard to argue that the FF's were particularly opposed to plutocracy.

      No kidding.

      The Founding Fathers were relatively very well off compared to the other white, male colonists. Compared to the slaves whose legal status the Founding Fathers codified in the Constitution...

    63. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by willaien · · Score: 1

      No, plurality voting doesn't represent the will of the people.

      People will refrain from voting for those that they fear will not win.

    64. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Ideologically he's not a minority any more than almost any other national politician is. By skin color, everyone is a minority, since skin colors varies a great deal even within "accepted" classifications. The latter is irrelevant to anything that matters (outside specific medical concerns), and as such should be ignored for any other substantive purpose.

      Are you really saying that the person with the less popular views should get the job?

      No, and by the very fact that you found it necessary to ask means any further replies on my part are a waste of time.

    65. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Yeah, except you're not actually saying anything, other than that you don't like it that people with whom you disagree win elections. You won't mention what minorities you are talking about, because that would mean having your point immediately rebutted by reality.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    66. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by darkonc · · Score: 2
      The process was slowly corrupted into it's current form. Corporations didn't have the kind of choke-hold on the political process that they do now, and politicians were more dependent on the goodwill of their citizens to run a campaign. Part of the purpose of government is to set the rules for corporations such that the inevitable run for riches by a corporation would result in good to the nation.

      Now corporations control the rule making so that 'good to the nation' == 'good to the corporations'

      The linchpin to correcting this is more with congress (and state and local) elections than the presidential election. If you change the focus of the rules-makers the executive branch will (mostly) follow.

      --
      Sometimes boldness is in fashion. Sometimes only the brave will be bold.
    67. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      I was referring to any ideological position which has the support of a large enough percentage to be represented by at least one of a given block of representatives. Most greens annoy me, but there are enough of them that they should have representation in the national government.

      The use of the House to represent geographical areas serves no rational purpose anymore, and should be restructured to actually represent the populace directly. Another benefit is that such a system eliminates the ability of parties to gerrymander their way to victory.

    68. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Actually I did, but you missed it entirely by picking up the minority tangent. Other election methods are not counter to the Constitution, since elections methods and regulation of a given state's Electoral College votes are up to each state. Funny that there was silence on the main point of reply, and the only point which had direct bearing on your comment.

      It's fine if you are happy with the status quo and partisan politics. You've already decided to label me, and will view my comments in light of the label you have made up in your head. Fortunately, that's not my problem.

    69. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Were you replying to me or the GP? I did have a typo in my first line. Wrote "constitutional" instead of "unconstitutional".

    70. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by tragedy · · Score: 1

      Had a typo in the first line, where I wrote "constitutional" instead of "unconstitutional", but it should have been clear from the rest of my post that I didn't agree with the GP and that I don't think that simple plurality voting represents the will of the people in a general election with three or more candidates. Simple plurality is the perfect system when there are exactly two choices, such as when voting yay or nay on a particular measure. It's really the only practical method in that case. Simple minded thinking that, since it works so well for those kinds of votes that it should work well in all cases is part of what leads to the mess that is the US electoral system. If you want a real democracy, you have to allow for more than two choices. For more than two choices, to have a completely fair election, you really need a multi-pass system, at the very least, you need one of the better working single-pass systems.

    71. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by retchdog · · Score: 1

      couldn't just let my crappy joke slide, huh? well, this is slashdot...

      i mostly agree with you and i'm for preferential voting. nonetheless, since you say that house serves no rational purpose anymore, i might have to disagree. if it ever did, i think it still does. if only, say, 1% of the population, concentrated in the corn belt, produces (or is capable of producing) most of the nation's food, might that not be worth some extra political representation? usa doesn't seem big on free trade, so much as being a military superpower and using "free trade" as an excuse/cudgel. since this is the case, shouldn't the means for self-sufficiency get a political boost?

      just an idea.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    72. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      Sorry, wasn't really in a mindset to be looking for jokes. Didn't mean to rain on your parade. XD

      I didn't mean the House served no rational purpose at all, just that the function of geographical representation has been duplicated, albeit on a slightly more centralized level.

      As for disproportionate representation such as you describe, I'm not really sure exactly how you mean that. It doesn't function that way currently, unless I'm missing something important in what you were trying to say. Each House district represents a specific number of people, which is set every 10 years. Those districts are geographical rather than ideological right now. What I meant was shifting them so that those 1% corn belt producers need not be in the same geographical district to be represented proportionately. By removing districts, you can get a much closer level of representation even if there is geographical disparity among the represented population. Right now, only those who represent the majority in a given district are represented.

    73. Re:so what obnoxious bullshit did they leave in? by Anzya · · Score: 1

      Are you going to make a list of what financial transactions politicians are allowed to make and who they are allowed to make them with?

      Actually, in Sweden we have partialy solved this problem. Gifts from clients may only cost at max a certain value and this is in effect for anyone who is in the employment of the state or the city and not just politicians. Makes things easy, if the gift is above a certain value then it's a bribe. We have other problems though that you don't. There is a non disclosure law in effect for party donations. So we may know that the party Moderaterna got a couple of millions in donations but we can't tell if MacDonalds payed for the recent lowering of taxes for restuarants.

      --
      "This message was brought to you by Sarcasm and Troll Feeders United (or STFU, for you un-hip people)."
  4. this is were by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    so now that we've lost the 7th amendment there going for the 1st...great...

  5. He's a known copyright infringer... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... why should we listen to him?

  6. Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We'll slip this back into some other bill later on when you sheeple are not paying attention.

    Bad laws never go away forever in america. They just keep comming back until they stick.

    1. Re:Translation by Dunbal · · Score: 2

      Or international law. Someone at one of several international organizations is bound to bring it up.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:Translation by ChaoticCoyote · · Score: 1, Insightful

      We'll slip this back into some other bill later on when you sheeple are not paying attention.

      Bad laws never go away forever in america. They just keep comming back until they stick.

      Ignore the sheeple. They've been around since humans first evolved, and aren't going away anytime soon.

      Bad laws do go away, but only with great effort, struggle, and sometimes societal collapse and rebirth. Humanity is due for a good colonic, IMNSHO.

    3. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you do know people who spend all day arguing on the internet would be the first to go right?

  7. Sony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The bill should contain a provision for a national holiday any time anyone performs a public cracking of Sony's network.

  8. remember how lobbying ALWAYS works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    (1) Expect A;

    (2) Ask for something else A+B+C, where B and C are even more insane-sounding things and C is pratically unworkable;

    (3) Make concessions to get people onside by suggesting that you're prepared to renegotiate on C;

    (4) Wait for objections to be made to much of B and a near complete elimination of C;

    (5) End up with all of A and a few scraps from B and C.

    Notice this pattern in every jurisdiction with every proposed law. Always tackle the principles, which will be in A - you'll probably find that you want to eliminate the bill entirely. (That's at the second reading at the latest, if you're looking at the UK Parliament. Beyond that it's too late unless the increasingly castrated Lords throw up a fuss.)

    1. Re:remember how lobbying ALWAYS works by ChaoticCoyote · · Score: 4, Interesting

      (1) Expect A;

      (2) Ask for something else A+B+C, where B and C are even more insane-sounding things and C is pratically unworkable;

      (3) Make concessions to get people onside by suggesting that you're prepared to renegotiate on C;

      (4) Wait for objections to be made to much of B and a near complete elimination of C;

      (5) End up with all of A and a few scraps from B and C.

      Notice this pattern in every jurisdiction with every proposed law. Always tackle the principles, which will be in A - you'll probably find that you want to eliminate the bill entirely. (That's at the second reading at the latest, if you're looking at the UK Parliament. Beyond that it's too late unless the increasingly castrated Lords throw up a fuss.)

      Congratulations on codifying reality succinctly. Hell, this is how most projects work, political or otherwise: Shoot for the moon, settle for what you need.

      Which makes me wonder -- why doesn;t the opposition do this? We need to demand freedom, push for flory, and expect to get bits back incrementally. Hell, we aren't goign to repeal the Federal Code, but we might just take a few bites out of it and start something positive.

      Often, the best way to defeat someone is to use their own tactics against them. Vote, demonstrate, get involved, fight. Anythign else is just posturing.

    2. Re:remember how lobbying ALWAYS works by BadPirate · · Score: 2

      Clearly put. It seems that the job of a politician is to compromise every value (on either side). Therefore if your opponent asks for something that is odious, as long as you can get that odiousness halved it looks like you have made a success.

      The Politician equation is:

      (Approved Change) = (Opponents Requested Change) / 2 = (Perceived victory)

      Thus the Lobbiest equation is:

      (Requested Change) = (Desired Change) * 2

      --
      - Holy crap, I've got MOD points! Who thought that was a good idea.
    3. Re:remember how lobbying ALWAYS works by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      tl;dr version: "hey, I got this on sale!"

      seriously, its how america relates to things.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    4. Re:remember how lobbying ALWAYS works by ksr · · Score: 1

      This strategy is called moving the Overton Window.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window

    5. Re:remember how lobbying ALWAYS works by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      Often, the best way to defeat someone is to use their own tactics against them. Vote, demonstrate, get involved, fight. Anythign else is just posturing.

      first, show me where OUR money is coming from (ie, our bribe money to those 'rule creators').

      I have a major problem with people who believe that we can 'vote for change'. voting is bullshit and the last decade or so has shown that quite clearly.

      to fix the system, we have to play by the system rules. that takes money to pay for bribes. er, I mean election funds.

      without that, you're just swinging your dick in the wind.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    6. Re:remember how lobbying ALWAYS works by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And people wonder why we have Republicans and Democrats that can't get along. Total polar opposites manifest when your nation is constantly playing the high-middle-low game. In the end, there is no compromise, only scorched Earth policies.

      Well, now I know how wars get started. Assholes! I live among assholes.

    7. Re:remember how lobbying ALWAYS works by AssholeMcGee+ · · Score: 1

      Yeah the voting thing seems to work well. You keep voting the same idiots into office and you'll get the same old. Demonstrating works to an extent but once people feel they have done something they let there guard down bills get passed, (like others have said it gets reborn into some other newly named bill or it gets dropped until the heat dies down) and the demonstrations were a waste of time.. People of been up in arms over the financial situation allowing banks and other companies to dictate, and it has been the same business as usual. I read comments about younger politicians but they are as clueless as the old farts, the younger ones grew up around the internet and other technology but they probably have no clue what is going on, all they have to do is study or hire technology aides explaining to them what the internet is and why these bills are bad but they refuse to do this. Lobbyists buy off who ever they want, or they could try and destroy that politicians career because he/she did not want to play the game.. Washington Politicians are hand puppets, they do not run anything, they get paid off, or do what they are told.

  9. isn't it interesting by desdinova+216 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    that this would come out just days after Comcast Announced that they've implemented DNSSEC which is not compatable with the DNS blocking provision of SOPA.

    1. Re:isn't it interesting by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      DNSSEC which is not compatable with the DNS blocking provision of SOPA.

      I keep seeing this assertion, but there is nothing about DNSSEC which prevents ISPs from blocking domain lookups. What DNSSEC mainly prevents is the forging of DNS responses to redirect users to another server. ISPs can still block the domain resolution by either allowing the request to time out or responding with an error (other than No Such Domain).

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    2. Re:isn't it interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is, actually. Unsigned SOA records on a signed TLD = invalid.

    3. Re:isn't it interesting by Fned · · Score: 4, Informative

      What DNSSEC mainly prevents is the forging of DNS responses to redirect users to another server.

      Which SOPA/ProtectIP, as written, would require.

    4. Re:isn't it interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not when the wrong DNS info is signed as legit.

    5. Re:isn't it interesting by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      You don't need to provide unsigned SOA records (or any SOA records) to block a domain lookup. Just refuse to respond at all, or report that an unspecified error occurred.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    6. Re:isn't it interesting by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      Do you have a citation for that? The closest I can see is a requirement for DNS servers to refuse to supply the correct addresses for banned domain names. That does not imply that the servers must respond with incorrect addresses.

      The main concern regarding SOPA's effect on DNSSEC seems to be that DNSSEC client are required by the protocol to respond to invalid responses and lookup errors by seeking out other DNS servers to query, which can be construed to look rather like an attempt to circumvent the ban. However, I can't see any rational, non-corrupt judge taking that view. Intent on the part of the DNSSEC designers to circumvent SOPA requirements would be rather hard to demonstrate.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  10. By ”consultation with industry gro“ he by microbee · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Behind-door meetings with corporate sponsors who brought this bill to his table and deciding what to give up to pass the rest of it.

  11. slashdot tagged it republican because ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... it was actually done by ron paul, and we know on slashdot that good can come only from ron paul. anything that does not come form lord ron paul is automatically bad.

    1. Re:slashdot tagged it republican because ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, because nobody on slashdot ever disagrees with Ron Paul about anything. Or you're an idiot. One of the two.

    2. Re:slashdot tagged it republican because ... by Toonol · · Score: 1

      Hello, 'ronpaulisanidiot'. Posting anonymously today?

    3. Re:slashdot tagged it republican because ... by NotSanguine · · Score: 1

      Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. - Mark Twain, a Biography

      Suppose you were a greedy, power hungry corporate shill. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself. --FTF Mr. Clemens

      --
      No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical. --Niels Bohr
    4. Re:slashdot tagged it republican because ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the cult of ron paul has my karma pegged permanently at terrible. because of that i can only post twice in 24 hours. posting anonymously allows me to post more often and at a higher score than the minus-1 my posts go up at.

      though really, you could have done a better job of replying to my comment than that. what do you think you are demonstrating?

  12. What I like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What I like about the law system, especially in america, is that if you pay to get the law on your side after the facts, you are a dirty criminal, but if you pay to get the law on your side before the facts, and thus push a law down everybody throat, you are a campaign sponsor.

  13. Just like the NDAA 2012 by AHuxley · · Score: 5, Informative

    First it was not for US citizens, then it was to be changed to exclude US citizens, then .....
    All you have now is a signing statement about values to protect you from indefinite detention :)
    As for US law enforcement and the inter tubes, recall the 84,000 "a domain" website efforts:
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110220/17533013176/ice-finally-admits-it-totally-screwed-up-next-time-perhaps-itll-try-due-process.shtml
    Ignore the pre committee PR and follow the bills :) Even the 2 page ones like S. 1698 the Enemy Expatriation Act

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:Just like the NDAA 2012 by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2, Informative

      Re: NDAA

      First it was not for US citizens, then it was to be changed to exclude US citizens, then

      And then the version actually signed by the President specifically excluded US Citizens, US Resident Aliens, and ANYONE actually caught inside the USA.

      Remember that Obama didn't issue a signing statement because the NDAA allowed indefinite detention of US Citizens, he did that because he thought he ALREADY had the power to detain someone captured outside the USA indefinitely, and didn't like Congress suggesting he needed their permisssion.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    2. Re:Just like the NDAA 2012 by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      and, uhm, 'signing statements' have WHAT kind of teeth, again?

      exactly.

      they are bullshit, too.

      not much more than comments in code. do comments change the code or make it faster or less buggy?

      NO.

      fuck signing statements. either there's a proper law or not. 'personal comments' DO NOT COUNT.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:Just like the NDAA 2012 by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      The US President of the day has the option to sign for indefinite detention on US Citizens caught inside the USA.
      A neat trick, one can quote the part that seems most fair but indefinite detention is ready to use when needed under a few old laws (Authorization for Use of Military Force).
      Then they get to select military detention (trial by military commission?), an alternative court or competent tribunal, a civilian criminal trial, transfers to third-country or to delete your overly protective "US Citizen" paperwork .... military detention with no outside US lawyer.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:Just like the NDAA 2012 by VanessaE · · Score: 1

      do comments change the code

      They can if you're coding on certain models of [Timex/]Sinclair 8-bit machines. :-)

  14. Which will mean by Scareduck · · Score: 2, Insightful

    that the government will be run by the public employee unions. Just like it is in California.

    --

    Dog is my co-pilot.

    1. Re:Which will mean by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh God! A government run by working people? What would happen to our country if that ever came to pass? The 1% might stop letting their generosity trickle down to the rest of us.

    2. Re:Which will mean by guruevi · · Score: 2

      He said public employee unions. Those unions are run by members of the 1%, their members don't get to set union policy, members simply get the benefit of not being able to get fired and guaranteed mediocre wages.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    3. Re:Which will mean by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He said publicly financed elections, which to me sounds like just the election funds coming from public source

      Public sources only, so that no corporation or wealthy 1% can make a large contribution in exchange for favours down the track. No more favours, only sound moves that get votes, and we'd be back towards the (still somewhat flawed) system of representative democracy

  15. DNS changes are meaningless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dropping the DNS provisions is meaningless if the "cut off funding" provisions remain.

  16. Classical way of pushing law through.... by thrill12 · · Score: 1

    A law like this can only be pushed through by making it Draconian at first, then filtering a little bit when protest comes in, to end up with a still draconian version with most people feeling that the stinger was removed from the law. It's a simple means of wagging the dog, and it works most of the time.

    --
    Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
    1. Re:Classical way of pushing law through.... by KhabaLox · · Score: 3, Funny

      A law like this can only be pushed through by making it Draconian at first,

      I've been playing too much D&D and Skryim the last couple of days, because I completely misinterpreted your post on the first read through.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas un sig.
  17. Stuff Still In by Bob9113 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The stuff that is still in the bill is still completely unacceptable. It still gives the MAFIAA the power to shut down the revenue of a company based merely on accusations, and removes any liability for payment processors or advertising programs for refusing to do business with a company based exclusively on a hit list written by the MAFIAA.

    Between the MAFIAA shutting down the MegaUpload song and Warner's admission in court that checking whether they actually own some copyright is too much trouble, they cannot be trusted with that kind of authority.

    Moreover, we have already given them law after law after law for more than a decade. They keep saying, "We need this to stop copyright infringement, even though it is going to be costly, intrusive, and strain the bounds of civil liberties." And it keeps not working, and they keep abusing what we do grant them, and they keep asking for more.

    We have given them more than we have given any other industry except maybe the investment banks, and they are still telling us they need more.

    It does not make sense for us to keep going to more and more extreme lengths to protect this business model. Either it works in the Internet age, or they need to come up with some ideas for funding their production that does not rely entirely on heavy-handed interference in the marketplace. Centralized enforcement is a blunt and expensive weapon. If this particular government-granted monopoly is no longer a cost efficient means to channel revenue into science and the useful arts, we need to try some new approaches instead of just plugging holes in the failing levee.

    1. Re:Stuff Still In by bobcat7677 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Lets not forget the part of the law that makes infringement a FELONY eligible for serious prison time. Thats the part that seems the most draconian to me. Lets make an example out of Susie Homemaker by making her do some hard time for downloading a Kenny G song. Seriously??? Haven't they ruined enough lives already by suing everybody in sight?

    2. Re:Stuff Still In by jonwil · · Score: 5, Informative

      Under SOPA, downloading a film from the internet could result in MORE jail time than if you walked into a store and stole the DVD at gunpoint.

      If the fact that downloading a file from the internet is considered a more serious crime than stealing things at gunpoint doesn't show that the USA is totally screwed up, I dont know what does.

    3. Re:Stuff Still In by smagruder · · Score: 2

      Ref: War on Drugs.

      --
      Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
    4. Re:Stuff Still In by Alsee · · Score: 1

      Lets not forget the part of the law that makes infringement a FELONY eligible for serious prison time.

      Actually it was the No Electronic Theft Act in 1997 that made most infringement on the internet into a felony with a sentence of up to 1, 3, or even 5 years if you have a hundred-odd music file collection, or even 10 years on a second offense.

      The new bill would "merely" make a small amendment somewhat expanding the application of the criminal-copyright law.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    5. Re:Stuff Still In by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Under SOPA, downloading a film from the internet could result in MORE jail time than if you walked into a store and stole the DVD at gunpoint.

      If the fact that downloading a file from the internet is considered a more serious crime than stealing things at gunpoint doesn't show that the USA is totally screwed up, I dont know what does.

      No. Armed robbery carries panalties up to 147 years. Under SOPA, the maximum penaly is 5 years.

      http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Armed-Robbery.htm
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_Online_Piracy_Act

  18. What other serious flaws might it contain? by gstrickler · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Given that the DNS provisions were seriously flawed, so much that they're simultaneously ineffective and would break many things on the internet, what other serious flaws are in the bill? If something that major "slipped past" all the sponsors and people promoting the bill, I have no faith that the rest of it is any better. Until the whole thing has been thoroughly reviewed for technical feasibility and constitutionality, the whole bill needs to be put on indefinite hold.

    Anything that bypasses or takes shortcuts on due process is absolutely unacceptable. And, there must be severe civil penalties and recourse, and possibly criminal penalties for false allegations.

    --
    make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
  19. "On second thought, North Korea is doing it wrong" by mykos · · Score: 1

    Nice to see that our lawmakers are happy to modify a extremely ludicrous law and exchange it for a very ludicrous one.

  20. It's corruption, not ignorance by walterbyrd · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The bill was drawn up by lobbyists. Congress don't know, and don't want to know what the bill is about. All a matter of who pays for the campaign contributions.

    1. Re:It's corruption, not ignorance by cbope · · Score: 2

      Not to mention, congress critters don't even READ the damn legislation they are passing for the most part. A few years ago in a Michael Moore documentary, several congress critters that were interviewed openly admitted they don't have time to read most of the legislation they pass.

      If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will.

  21. I believe I speak for everyone here... by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When I quote the first post from last night's thread on PIPA:

    Fuck you. We still don't want it.

    1. Re:I believe I speak for everyone here... by symbolset · · Score: 2

      If you have a Wordpress blog you can add a plugin that takes your site dark for the 18th - redirecting to an education page. But it's a 503 redirect, so it won't kill your search engine rankings. Every little bit helps.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
  22. Republicans love Big Government when it suits them by Beelzebud · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Notice how the Republicans are fine with Big Government, as long it is to the benefit of corporate interests.

  23. NDAA is okay because Obama approved by walterbyrd · · Score: 4, Funny

    Everybody knows that democrats can do no wrong when it comes to civil rights. Only republicans are bad.

    1. Re:NDAA is okay because Obama approved by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      Everybody knows that democrats can do no wrong when it comes to civil rights. Only republicans are bad.

      Who is claiming that, exactly?

      It's truly impressive how much straw you managed to pack into such a short post there.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  24. Thank you, Mr. Smith. by msobkow · · Score: 0

    "We will continue to look for ways," Smith continued, "to ensure that foreign Web sites cannot sell and distribute illegal content to U.S. consumers."

    As are many "geeks", I'm very glad to see this. And i appreciate the way he's redirecting the issue to preventing US residents from being courted by those who sell stolen material and counterfeit goods, while working within the laws of foreign nations to pursue the guilty under their own nation's laws.

    It's all I could ask for. Thank you, sir.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Thank you, Mr. Smith. by msobkow · · Score: 0

      Downloading isn't theft, but when you convert the download to physical media and sell it, or otherwise distribute the content for a fee, it BECOMES theft because you've applied a monetary value to the content you downloaded.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    2. Re:Thank you, Mr. Smith. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      aren't you proud that US citizens are now referred to as consumers instead, Mr. Astroturf?

    3. Re:Thank you, Mr. Smith. by msobkow · · Score: 1

      <SARCASM>I'm even PROUDER to be modded down for thanking a politician who did what we asked for. It makes me so glad I'm a slashdotter.</SARCASM>

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    4. Re:Thank you, Mr. Smith. by msobkow · · Score: 1

      I'm a Canadian. My only beef with SOPA was the way the US was trying to implement bad legislation that would have seen their enforcement efforts affecting the whole world and subverting other nation's laws.

      What the US does internally is America's business, not mine. The down-modders obviously don't like the fact that I'm not continuing to beat the drums of their internal battle for even more changes to SOPA, but it's not MY fight.

      Were I to fight YOUR fight, I'd hope you'd be as pissed off as I was at the US attempt to interfere with Canadian policy and law.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  25. Day Late Dollar Short Big Govt Reply by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just pull the plug on SOPA and nobody gets hurt.

    This means you too, EA.

    I've given you tens of thousands of dollars over the decades, but my checkbook and credit card is shut if you don't back down.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Day Late Dollar Short Big Govt Reply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so... two games a month, for twenty years, with an average of $50 each? Well, Thank You Sir!

       

    2. Re:Day Late Dollar Short Big Govt Reply by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God damn I wish my mod points hadn't expired.

  26. Re:Republicans love Big Government when it suits t by Toonol · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Notice how the Democrats have the exact same problem?

  27. Holograms by lopaka1998 · · Score: 1

    No shit. A third of them aren't even alive anymore anyway. They simply exist as a hologram. Anyone see Nancy Pelosi lately? Don't tell me someone can naturally be that ugly! Oh no - it's just our computer hardware and software can't project a good looking person just yet. So if you were wondering why there were do many old, ugly people in congress, here's why!

  28. Re:Republicans love Big Government when it suits t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Republicans want government out of the board room, but don't care if they are in your bedroom.

    Democrats want the same things republicans want, but they don't care about your bedroom as much.

  29. Lamar Smith needs to lose his job over this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Smith is up for re-election in this cycle, and if the SOPA-hating world united as one against him being re-elected, it would start to send the type of message that Congress needs to hear every day.

    If I had found out about his support of SOPA before the cutoff to get my name on the primary ballot, I would have run against him myself.

  30. Big Red X by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The sheeple are asleep beneath blankets of bureaucracy. It is considered normal to not understand tax forms, medical insurance paperwork, and so forth. The bureaucracy is growing to meet the growing needs of the bureaucracy. No amount of smart can keep up!

    Seriously Suggest: Take a big red crayon, X the form, and write, "I have above average intelligence and cannot understand this, nor sign it in good faith. Send me a simpler form, please."

    If the politicians who vote for SOPA also admitted when they were baffled, admitted the red tape is overwhelming and they cannot in good conscience vote on something so complicated...

  31. We Need a Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Assuming that governments all over the world will try to dominate the open and free internet, what technical solutions exist today (or can we develop) to prevent this governmental censorship. Are there open DNS servers where I can point my resolv.conf at, that aren't under the control of my ISP and/or my government?

    Oh, and BTW, FU Lamar Smith.

    Captcha: Paranoia -- no shit.

  32. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 4, Funny

    Wait, who cares that it's gone! He used the offending image, right?

    Pull his site!

    Oh wait - so if a Govt site "just pulls the image" it's okay, but when Joe Small does it we pull his entire site?

    How did you let him past that double standard?!

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  33. Re:Republicans love Big Government when it suits t by sjames · · Score: 2

    The Democrats have plenty of their own problems, but they're not the ones always yelling about small government while voting up laws that make the government bigger and more intrusive.

  34. What's left in SOPA minus DNS blocking? by Karmashock · · Score: 2

    I thought that was most of it. What is left now?

    Piracy was already illegal... how does the law change without the DNS issue?

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    1. Re:What's left in SOPA minus DNS blocking? by jackbird · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Goes from a civil tort to a federal felony, which is a pretty big fucking deal.

    2. Re:What's left in SOPA minus DNS blocking? by Karmashock · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that sounds like a bad idea again... even from the perspective of anti piracy advocates because it would basically create something like the drug war.

      We'd start filling our prisons with people that aren't really hardened criminals.

      The piracy legislation should definitely be handled with kid gloves. But we do need to start coming up with alternative plans. Congress and the lobbying groups are making it pretty clear that simply stonewalling is not an effective political position.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    3. Re:What's left in SOPA minus DNS blocking? by angelbar · · Score: 1

      Attacking vessels to steal its products or hurt people was always illegal witout consent from the marine authorities.... arrrrgh!!

      --
      -no sig today-
    4. Re:What's left in SOPA minus DNS blocking? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Consider as well how many companies ask if you have a felony conviction on job applications. Rarely will they bother to find out that it was for downloading a song 10 years ago.

    5. Re:What's left in SOPA minus DNS blocking? by tepples · · Score: 1

      I thought the "No Electronic Theft Act" had already made intentional copyright infringement for financial gain a felony over a decade ago. What's the big difference here?

    6. Re:What's left in SOPA minus DNS blocking? by jackbird · · Score: 1

      Removing the financial gain aspect - replacing RIAA lawsuits with criminal investigations, and civil suits from record companies with criminal charges.

    7. Re:What's left in SOPA minus DNS blocking? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Financial gain has already included trading copies of works for an expectation of copies of other works for years. This includes the sort of share ratio economy seen on many private BitTorrent trackers.

  35. NOPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    NOPE NOPE NOPE! Still don't want it.

  36. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Marillion · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Actually, that's a perfect example of how it should be done. A copyright owner notifies the infringer of a violation. The infringer says, "Sorry, my bad, I didn't know. I'll address that immediately." The infringing material is removed. Both parties go on their merry way.

    Because infringement is very easy to do unintentionally, as Representative Smith found out, I feel there needs to be a safe-harbor course of action. If infringement is removed within (picks a number from thin air) seven days, then the infringement should be presumed to be unintentional and not liable for any damages. Furthermore, there should be a process where an alleged infringer can say to an accuser, "No, you've got it all wrong. I have a right to use this because of [insert reason here]." The matter would be settled either inside or outside of courts, using well-established procedures from Civil Law, but the matter would eventually be settled.

    Anyway, that's my fantasy world. It's happy there. I only wish it could actually happen.

    --
    This is a boring sig
  37. Re:Republicans love Big Government when it suits t by MechaStreisand · · Score: 1

    Nope, they just vote up laws that make the government bigger and more intrusive without yelling about small government at all. That's much better.

    --
    Disclaimer: IANAL. This post is, however, legal advice, and creates an attorney-client relationship.
  38. Re:Republicans love Big Government when it suits t by sjames · · Score: 1

    At least it's honest.

  39. Re:Republicans love Big Government when it suits t by Beelzebud · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Tea Party was all about being "Taxed Enough Already", and they were out there actively protesting for the rights of billionaires to keep their tax cuts. It was an astro-turf movement, and that's why you don't see it anymore. The wealthy people bankrolling got their tax breaks, and moved on. The reason I pointed out what I did, is because the Republican party is the one that says they're for "smaller government", and yet they've had plenty of chances to prove it over the decades, and they don't deliver at all.

  40. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

    An even better solution, which would eliminate most of these kinds of problems before they even start, would be to go back to the old Copyright standard of a few years ago (and for centuries before that): for most things you have to first DECLARE a copyright before you can enforce it.

    It is this new "automatic" copyright for almost all works that has caused most of the mischief. The old way worked just fine for many generations. But less than one generation into this scheme, and it has caused all kinds of very serious problems for society.

  41. Smith's Robots.txt allows him to backpedal anon by thinktech · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://texansforlamarsmith.com/robots.txt No archiving my site!!! If I change my mind, I don't want those pesky archives to be able to call me on it. Wow, this guy is a sleeze.

    --
    What's up with this box everyone has to think inside of or outside of? Why does there have to be a box?
  42. Citation needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd like to know where you found this information, so I can point it out to others. For now, I can just see that the article says

    "I feel we should remove DNS-blocking from the Stop Online Piracy Act so that the [U.S. House Judiciary] Committee can further examine the issues surrounding this provision."

    Examining the issues doesn't mean the removed provision is being postponed. I don't agree with the rest of the bill, but I don't see your statement being validated by the information provided.

  43. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by jackbird · · Score: 4, Informative

    Lamar Smith's website was infringing something with a declared copyright - a Creative Commons-licensed photo that specified attribution and noncommercial use (not even a license fee!)

  44. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Triv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because infringement is very easy to do unintentionally, as Representative Smith found out, I feel there needs to be a safe-harbor course of action. If infringement is removed within (picks a number from thin air) seven days, then the infringement should be presumed to be unintentional and not liable for any damages. Furthermore, there should be a process where an alleged infringer can say to an accuser, "No, you've got it all wrong. I have a right to use this because of [insert reason here]." The matter would be settled either inside or outside of courts, using well-established procedures from Civil Law, but the matter would eventually be settled.

    The bone-jarringly stupid thing about this whole mess is, what you describe is more or less the way a DMCA takedown request works NOW - a copyright holder claims their work is being infringed and the site hosting the material pulls it pending review. If it's infringing (ie, if the infringing user can't explain why it isn't) it stays down and if it isn't it's reinstated.

    That's the biggest problem with this whack-a-doodle bill - the measures in place to deal with copyright currently work perfectly well for everybody except gigantic corporations with too much copyrighted material to effectively police.

  45. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by tepples · · Score: 1

    By "declare" did Jane Q. Public mean "register for $35 at copyright.gov"?

  46. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How did you let him past that double standard?!

    Not to excuse it, but that's not the biggest double standard in the thing, I think the fact that GoDaddy helped write the bill and was conveniently exempted from the penalties their competitors would face under the bill. To me that sounds like a literal double standard with much bigger consequences.

  47. Looks like the game companies are in on the fight by symbolset · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While we wait for Wikimedia to do their committee thing it looks like about a dozen game companies and communities are going completely dark in sync with Reddit. I see a couple rumors that Google's having internal talks about how to get involved - but it's a very tricky thing. We like other websites, but many of us actually need Google. If enough small fry get involved it could become a big enough deal.

    I forget... where were we on shutting down /. for the day?

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  48. Offshore sites by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the measures in place to deal with copyright currently work perfectly well for everybody except gigantic corporations with too much copyrighted material to effectively police.

    Or U.S. authors whose copyright has been infringed on a foreign site serving U.S. residents, such as TPB. The loss of the OCILLA safe harbor doesn't affect them because the sites are operated offshore. That's what SOPA and PROTECTIP were originally targeted at: making it more difficult for U.S. residents to access sites that would violate U.S. copyright if only they weren't offshore.

    1. Re:Offshore sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TPB does not infringe copyrights.

  49. Re:Looks like the game companies are in on the fig by symbolset · · Score: 3, Informative

    Forgot to mention a couple of the best ones. Minecraft and mojang will go dark (19M users). The entire family of icanhazcheezburger humor pic sites too, including FAIL Blog, Know Your Meme, Memebase and The Daily What (16M users). I do believe that the lack of lolcats will spur some serious action. Firefall company Red 5 Studios will also go dark. nVidia has come out strongly opposed to the legislation, but hasn't announced any action yet. This is really starting to roll, and blackout day is still 5 days away.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  50. Re:Looks like the game companies are in on the fig by angelbar · · Score: 2

    Wrong ! Shutting down /. its like shutting down a newspaper because a bad law. We need a FULL page of the newspaper explaining the problem!

    --
    -no sig today-
  51. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    An even better solution, which would eliminate most of these kinds of problems before they even start, would be to go back to the old Copyright standard of a few years ago (and for centuries before that): for most things you have to first DECLARE a copyright before you can enforce it.

    It is this new "automatic" copyright for almost all works that has caused most of the mischief. The old way worked just fine for many generations. But less than one generation into this scheme, and it has caused all kinds of very serious problems for society.

    What are you talking about? Remember the multi-million dollar damages the RIAA and MPAA were getting? Those are statutory damages, you only get them by having a registered copyright.

    I.e. RIAA/MPAA copyrights ARE registered, I fail to see what you think you are fixing.

    The real problem here is that the copyright holders want to play carpet-bombing wack-a-mole with casual infringers; in the olden days, casual infringement wasn't important, only bootlegs (selling copies) were a major issue. Prosecuting large numbers of people for infringing $20 worth of music isn't worthwhile so they started up a legalized protection racket with ridiculous legal damages and a $3000 "settlement" offer to make the problem go away.

  52. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    Yes, I understand. I was referring to MOST such problems, not this one specifically.

  53. Re:Looks like the game companies are in on the fig by symbolset · · Score: 2

    The sites going "dark" will replace their content with the necessary educational literature.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  54. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Informative

    No, just a claim.

    According to the old rules, which were in effect for a very long time (and pretty much everybody seemed to think worked just great), you had to CLAIM a copyright in order to enforce it. In other words, one of those notices that looked typically like "Copyright © MyCompany 2011". (I don't know if the circled "C" will come through properly on Slashdot.)

    If you hadn't claimed the copyright up front, you could not enforce it. Which was fine with most people because they didn't want to bother with copyrighting everything in sight anyway.

    Copyright registration is not a "copyright". You own the copyright anyway. That's why it's called a "right". Registration is nothing more than "official" evidence that you own the copyright on a work. It is neither proof per se (because it's possible you could have registered something from someone else), or any kind of stamp of Government approval or anything. In the same way that legally, a signed piece of paper is not a "contract". An agreement of any kind that is otherwise legal is a contract. The piece of paper is just evidence of that agreement. Copyright registration works pretty much the same way.

    There were exceptions, for situations like photographers and artists who sold original works for profit. They did not have to carry a copyright notice in order for the copyright to be enforced.

  55. Tucows is in the fight by symbolset · · Score: 1

    Domain registrar and shareware repository Tucows will be going dark in opposition of SOPA on the 18th.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  56. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Kalriath · · Score: 2

    Notice and Takedown is stupid though - ideally the US should have gone with the more sane Notice and Notice system, whereby the ISP simply passes on the notice to the site owner, and they can choose to either act on it immediately (Takedown) or send a counter-notice - rather than being required to take down the content until the site owner can make that decision.

    --
    For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
  57. A Start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ok so the next step is to remove SOPA from SOPA. On the way! Then there NEEDS to be a Witchhunt of anyone and everyone involved in its inception.

    1. Re:A Start by __aasdno7518 · · Score: 1

      Ok so the next step is to remove SOPA from SOPA. On the way! Then there NEEDS to be a Witchhunt of anyone and everyone involved in its inception.

      Yes,and congressman and lobbyists heads roll,so much the better.

  58. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by symbolset · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's worse than that. They want to strip you of your rights to due process and freedom of speech as a preventive measure to protect their IP. That's not OK. A big Seattle TV station, KING 5 supports SOPA. They have comments, so you can let them know how you feel about this here.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  59. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by __aasdno7518 · · Score: 1

    Oh wait - so if a Govt site "just pulls the image" it's okay, but when Joe Small does it we pull his entire site? Yes,and send Joe S to prison for five years plus fine him 100k.

  60. Re:Republicans love Big Government when it suits t by sjames · · Score: 1

    That's not a typical Democrat platform. Though Clinton actually DID reduce the deficit.

  61. I agree Marillion. by BenJCarter · · Score: 1

    The court weighs in or it isn't law. If anyone can censor speech, without legal permission, the web is gonna turn Chinese and shit...

    --
    For in politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. - Publius
  62. mod up by ganjadude · · Score: 1

    someone missed the sarcasm

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  63. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Lincolnshire+Poacher · · Score: 1

    > A copyright owner notifies the infringer of a violation. The infringer says, "Sorry, my
    > bad, I didn't know. I'll address that immediately." The infringing material is removed.
    > Both parties go on their merry way.

    Except... one of the parties has been able to make money off the copyright of the other party without permission.

    Look at it from the copyright holder's perspective. The Internet is a big place and unlike trademarks the holder is not required to actively protect a copyright to retain its validity. So, someone could be improperly profiting from use of copyright materials for quite some time until discovered and "notified of infringement". And then the cycle repeats when the infringer moves to another piece of copyright material.

    Another thread this week gave the example of thatguywiththeglasses.com as a site that would be affected by SOPA. Well, yes, pretty much all his content is derived from copyright material. Why should he be able to profit on a repeating basis from other people's copyright? Go out there and create something NEW.

  64. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

    This is very simple to deal with; if it happens one time or two times to the same person then you assume that it was a simple mistake. The movement of earnings is small. If it happens a few more times, you insist on that person taking active measures and putting documented procedures in place for handling copyrights. If it happens after that time, you investigate the documentation and if it doesn't show the right procedures being followed then you start to give that person big fines.

    These are very standard things that work everywhere. If copyright requires us to change all our legal systems to be much more draconian as it's advocates seem to think it does, then copyright is dangerous and should be reduced or got rid of.

    --
    =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
  65. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

    Because:
    1. He is funny. If you make copyright that absolute, you deprive people of his works entirely - in which case copyright isn't fulfilling its intended purpose of promoting the creation of new works.
    2. When you specialise in reviews, it is rather difficult not to use someone elses work.
    3. Because almost every original piece ever created is actually based in some part upon what went before. Even Disney, the great copyright empire and symbol of creativity to many, built its business around animated adaptations of classic stories. Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, etc.

  66. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by justforgetme · · Score: 1

    the site hosting the material pulls it pending review. If it's infringing (ie, if the infringing user can't explain why it isn't) it stays down and if it isn't it's reinstated.

    Which is plainly wrong (but still unmeasurably better than SOPA), since this way you are forcing the defendant to prove his innocence.
    The world's justice works "innocent until proven guilty"? Yeah, right....

    --
    -- no sig today
  67. Overton Window by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Which makes me wonder -- why doesn;t the opposition do this?

    You mean move the Overton window? I guess I could push for an IP tax or something, but it doesn't make much sense when I'd already prefer to abolish IP entirely. Then again, I'm not sure that Congress would have any problem taxing people for things they don't own, so what do I know.....

    - I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property

  68. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Sique · · Score: 1

    But for instance the Berne Convention says, that every creative work is protected, until the author declares it free to use for others. Works well also - you just can't leech someone else's work, if you want a background image, either do one yourself or go around shopping. Just download it somewhere without asking is like just plucking someone else's apples without asking.

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  69. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You still need to register to collect monetary damage awards in civil trial. However, you don't have to register, I think, to press a criminal charge, so the weirdness continues.

  70. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    And your point is?

    We know what the current standard is. My poing -- which you did not address at all -- was that the new standard does not work in the U.S. At the very least, it is easily provable that it works nowhere near as well as our old system did.

    So the hell with your Berne Convention. If it is not an improvement, (and it most definitely, and provably, is not), then who gives a shit? We don't need it.

  71. beware by Tom · · Score: 1

    Beware that this is a typical politicians strategy: Put out ridiculous, overblown ideas and wait for the shitstorm, then reduce it to still outrageous but less overblown - support for the resistance against it usually drops with every move you make towards a "compromise", until you can push something through that is often close to what you really wanted to achieve.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  72. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    I should add (just gratis, you can thank me later) that this whole issue has to do with a balance of freedoms, or rights, if you prefer.

    Your right to make a profit may NOT, under any circumstances, curtail what I honestly say. This is a large part of the "fair use" exemption that has so often come up in recent years.

    Further, at least in this country, before you may order the compliance of other parties you must first demonstrate that you have standing to do so; quite the opposite of "copyright lawsuits" that have happened here so far. The DMCA contains provisions that will WITHOUT ANY DOUBT fail to pass Constitution muster, if and when those laws are challenged in court. It just happened yet.

  73. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

    It just HASN'T happened yet.

  74. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by DarkOx · · Score: 2

    I understand that perspective. The trouble is the rights of a few people to run a business selling licenses for creative works simply does not trump the rights of them and EVERYONE else to basic things due process, and freedom of speech.

    If the only way to police the Internet leaves online publishers (which includes anyone operating a site) with no recourse to defend themselves against improper claims prior to action being taken against them, there is a chilling effect. Its not an acceptable trade off. Frankly IP based business are just going to have to learn to live with a certain amount of crime, and come up with better solution technical and possibly legal to deal with it. Draconian clubs are not the answer though.

    Think about this for an analogy. Shop keepers deal with breakins and vandalism all the time. Now I think everyone agrees that the media industry figures which put their losses at $250B ( http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/01/12/how-much-do-music-and-movie-piracy-really-hurt-the-u-s-economy/ ) the article further states that is like $800 for every man, woman and child in this nation. Clearly that is not reasonable. So the actual harm must be less, perhaps no so different from what the shop keepers experience. Now we could eliminate much of that physical property crime. All we would need to is impose a curfew and during the hours you are permitted out of your home have a guard on the corner of ever commercial district street demand your papers and you state your business for being there. The thing is nobody wants to live in that society. We don't want or need the Internet to work like that either.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  75. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

    Yeah, remember people, using public domain works without paying to your choosen master^W corportation is stealing. There is no public domain. If you communicate any kind of idea, or even expressions without conveying any kind of information, pay your toll.

  76. Re:Looks like the game companies are in on the fig by marcosdumay · · Score: 1

    What is equivalent to /. only publishing articles about SOPA on that day.

    Maybe /. should do that.

  77. Re:Republicans love Big Government when it suits t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nope, they just vote up laws that make the government bigger and more intrusive without yelling about small government at all. That's much better.

    Obama is proposing, again, to consolidate multiple agencies.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_19739447

  78. Industry groups. by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    After consultation with industry groups across the country

    Industry groups. People are still practically powerless. Lucky that the tech megacorp's interests align with the common man's on this.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  79. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by rtb61 · · Score: 1

    Prove it. There in lies the problem. Prove you own it and prove it isn't fair use ie. innocent until proven guilty. Rather than my work disappears from the web until I prove you don't own it or that it was fair use ie guilty until proven innocent.

    So false charge after false charge, every month or so and your web site is dead, buried by legal fees and no income. You don't think for a second that this is exactly what the corporate psychopath companies planned in the first place when they got lobbyists to write that foul and corrupt piece of legislation.

    Big money versus the little guy and your finished, they will kill one blog after another, until they are all that is left (and then they will reform the mass media cartel, and not pick on protected companies or subjects and share common lies and deceits), that is their insane plan.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  80. DNS filtering's 2 EASY 2 "blow by"'s why by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean, for Pete's sake: Using a custom HOSTS file alone can do that much (Additionally, it also avoids any DNS request logs too by bypassing calling out to a remote DNS server @ all/period...).

    * Besides - There's more powerful methods to block out these allegedly "infringing" sites/servers!

    (DNSBL's (DNS Block Lists) aren't going to be a solution that compares to them (just easier & less costly to implement, holding out a good chunk of the possible users BUT, not anyone that knows what they're doing)).

    APK

    P.S.=> I didn't read the article, but, it sounds like they're giving up on DNSBL filtering here... & yes, they ought to, as it's NOT terribly effective blocking simply because, again:

    It's easily gotten around in custom HOSTS files usage alone, & moreso via things like TOR!

    ... apk

  81. Not Good Enough by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 1

    Fixing one of the bad parts of the bill is not good enough. We need both the Senate and House versions killed dead, and serious voter action against the supporters of the bill, even if they recant their position later. We want them to be in fear of their jobs if they even *think* of censoring free speech again. Otherwise this bullshit will just pop up again in the next session of Congress. The media giants will never stop wanting more, it's built into the DNA of what a corporation does to maximize profits, so they will always come back again. We have to treat them the way zombies get treated in the apocalypse movies they make.

  82. Re:Looks like the game companies are in on the fig by symbolset · · Score: 1

    It looks like the anti-SOPA efforts are having some effect, as the President has now come out against it. But he hasn't promised a veto yet.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  83. Re:Looks like the game companies are in on the fig by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 1

    Places like Google can put a message on their home search page, or on search results. Actually, I have already noticed their news aggregation page has a SOPA story most of the time in the past week or two. I don't know if they are giving the news algorithm a boost, or if the story is just that popular on it's own, but its there a lot

  84. Contributory infringement by tepples · · Score: 1

    I agree with you that TPB does not directly infringe copyrights. However, it contributorily infringes copyrights by linking to unauthorized sources of copyrighted works and flagrantly disregarding requests to take down said links.

  85. DHS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    DHS and all its employees and "champions" in the US government must be erased from existance in order to save the peoples of Earth.

    A necessity.

  86. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by iamnobody2 · · Score: 1

    no, its like copying someone else's apple.

    --
    nobody's perfect
  87. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

    I don't think we could go back to non-automatic copyright. If I make a blog post and attach a few photos I took, would I need to register each photo and the text of the blog post with the US Copyright Office? What about if I make posts like that every day? How much additional paperwork would this add to blogging or any other online activity?

    I think that the better solution would be to limit copyright terms to 14 years with an optional (paid) 14 year extension. Add in a method like Marillion states for notifying people of copyright infringement and the problem would be largely solved. In fact, we pretty much have a system like that with the DMCA. (One of the only good provisions in that.) If I post something online that you believe is copyrighted by you, you send a DMCA take down request. I can then take it down or reply with my reason why I think I'm allowed to keep it online. If you still disagree, you can take me to court to solve the matter. Is it abused at times? Definitely. Might it need some tweaking? Perhaps. But we don't need a whole new law (especially something like SOPA/PIPA) to solve the problem!

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  88. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    I'll even give you the "best case" scenario, to agree with your point still more.

    Let's say you don't even get any legal fees, you just get the ritual of checking your mail every Saturday morning (darn post offices not open past working-man's hours!) for This Week's DMCA letters.

    You spend three hours every day fiddling with your code taking down and replacing the broken picture links because a big company is doing a slow seige by paying assistant paralegal Mr. X to send them to you every week. So then the company smiles innocently to the cameras and says they're "being reasonable" but the little site owner slowly becomes exhausted and gives up, and loses his visitors when he runs out of energy to keep updating anymore.

    Part of my original comment that no one seems to have caught on to was that *lawmakers* need to be held to a higher standard. If *copyright infringement* is $150,000 per event per the **AA, then a *lawmaker* needs to be stuck with that level fine.

    But then, yes, laws are only made for the little guys to follow.

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  89. Re:Oh wait by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    "Oh wait - so if a Govt site "just pulls the image" it's okay, but when Joe Small does it we pull his entire site? Yes,and send Joe S to prison for five years plus fine him 100k."

    Exactly my point, you noticed what I was going after sir. Wasn't that delivered so smoothly we almost missed it?

    Tangent Topic: Why were sex scandals enough to usually wreck a politician's career but they're small news in private life, yet copyright is what will wreck private life but they're small news for politicians? (Gotta luv parallel clause sentences! More wisdom in a pair of those than any other kind!)

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  90. Re:Update The background image is now gone. by BobPaul · · Score: 1

    The DMCA already provides this sort of action.

    1. DMCA Complaint filed with service provider (ISP, webhost, youtube).
    2. Offending content (image, song, etc) removed by ISP (or could be held liable).
    3. (optional) Counter-claim filed, restores content.
    4. (optional) Remaining details worked out in court.

    And prior to the DMCA, your way is exactly how it worked, except the ISP didn't have to pull the content and the rights owner had more difficulty finding the individual who posted the content as the service provider was under no obligation to tell them without a court order. That abuse of the DMCA system is already rampant and congress wants to expand the power to include DNS blocking is madness.