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Sir Tim Berners-Lee Speaks Out On SOPA

natecochrane writes "Father of the web Sir Tim Berners-Lee called for Americans to protest SOPA and PIPA, laws he says violate human rights and are unfit for a democratic country. Sir Tim's condemnation came on the day an editorial in Australia's leading broadsheet newspapers pointed out that although the laws ostensibly applied to U.S. interests they could overreach to impact those in other countries."

28 of 188 comments (clear)

  1. The Joke's on Them by Aladrin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "an editorial in Australia's leading broadsheet newspapers pointed out that although the laws ostensibly applied to US interests they could overreach to impact those in other countries."

    The laws were written specifically for that purpose. They have clauses that (supposedly) prevent them being used on US sites and site owners. What's left? The rest of the world!

    That's why it disgusted me every time I saw someone overseas saying to get this junk off their news sites because it didn't apply to them.

    --
    "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    1. Re:The Joke's on Them by ljw1004 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The SOPA was written to address "US-based interests", i.e. it specifically claims to go after only US-directed foreign websites, to prevent US-based people from seeing those foreign websites.

      (Defn: "US-directed" means that the site hasn't taken steps to prevent US people from seeing the website, or other nonspecified reasons. "Foreign website" means a domain name which is registered by a non-US registrar, or an IP address which comes from a non-US block).

      But the US doesn't have jurisdiction over foreign domains/websites. So, in that absence, it's US-based companies who have to act:

      * US-based ISPs have to take measures to prevent their customers from "accessing" those websites 5 days. It's not clear what measures must be taken, but they include at a minimum blocking DNS lookups.

      * US-based search engines have to remove hyperlinks to those foreign domains/websites within 5 days

      * US-based ad brokers have to cease serving ads to those foreign domains/websites within 5 days

      * US-based payment companies have to cease processing payments for those foreign domains/websites with 5 days

      Moreover, any US-based service which bypasses this censorship -- TOR, Mafiaafire, free and open DNS servers -- will be shut down by the courts.

    2. Re:The Joke's on Them by Ice+Tiger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except when the blocking mechanism is to remove say slashdot.org from DNS.

      --
      "Because we are not employing at entry level, offshoring will kill our industry stone dead."
    3. Re:The Joke's on Them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So the blackouts affected your productivity? Then you might be interested in the fact that if those websites get taken down with SOPA or PIPA, it will likewise affect your productivity, therefore these laws *do* affect you, and your whole logic breaks down.

      > In actual fact, the SOPA blackouts just made me find alternate sites and avenues to the content I would normally use.

      Yes, I am afraid that's exactly what non-US people will have to do. So I guess the blackouts pushed you towards doing what needs to be done ;)

      > They actually *helped* me not be reliant on people who think their service is there to push their own political agenda instead of being a service.

      Actually, the "service" e.g. Wikipedia offers centers around a highly political cause itself, namely free access to knowledge. You like to treat "service" and "politics" as different things, but in this case, they aren't.

    4. Re:The Joke's on Them by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 4, Informative

      Mesh networking is a proven technology that has no central point of failure. This is a site full of outraged nerds.

      So... get off your ass and help render the Internet obsolete. The problem isn't the politics. The problem is the infrastructure, and the solution is ready, waiting to be deployed.

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    5. Re:The Joke's on Them by Cyberax · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would you like your site to be removed from Google Search?

      Google is a US-based company, you know.

    6. Re:The Joke's on Them by GumphMaster · · Score: 5, Informative

      It sure as hell applies to me. I run a (very) small software business online in Australia under a .au domain name. If a US company decides that my software infringes a patent they claim to hold then they can get my site removed from any US-based searching index and my site blocked by name or IP. That is not catastrophic as my software is not useful in the US, and reasonably well supported by word-of-mouth anyway.

      However, under these abominations of law, they can also force any company with a presence in the US to cease any payment related service to my company. Mastercard, Visa, American Express, and Diners will remove their merchant accounts, PayPal is not an alternative etc. Any non-US payment processor accepting Mastercard, Visa etc. will be contractually obliged by the US companies, protecting their own legal arses, to refuse payment services also. This is a death sentence to any online business. The only recourse is to fight a legal battle in US courts, a death sentence to any small company.

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
  2. Father of the web Sir Tim Berners-Lee by frovingslosh · · Score: 5, Funny

    Father of the web? Wait 'till Al Gore hears about hears about this poser!

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    1. Re:Father of the web Sir Tim Berners-Lee by johanwanderer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Father of the web? Wait 'till Al Gore hears about hears about this poser!

      Web != internet

  3. Sunshine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I hope it does pass, I waste far too much time on the Internet.

  4. Re:Violates human rights? by Kenja · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Freedom of communication, speech, association, congregation are not human rights?

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  5. And yet... by echo_kmem · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All these voices coming out against these Bills, yet the Congress and Senate still push as if they really have a shot.

    1. Re:And yet... by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They do "have a shot". We the people get no real say in what bills get passed or not. Best we can do is vote the current person out of office, at which point they get a cushy job in the industry they represented and a new industry spokesperson takes their place.

      So long as corporations are "people" (which if they are, wouldn't buying stocks be slavery?) and money is "free speech" there's not much we can do about it.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    2. Re:And yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's because they're already as good as passed. At best, the blackout thing will force them to change the name. There's an anti-"child pornography" bill coming up. If SOPA fails, or only passes without the DNS provisions, they'll just be added to the Protecting Children From Internet Pornographers Act. Except rather than calling it "copyright infringement" they'll call it "protecting our children."

      The battle's already as good as lost. About all the blackout did was piss people off. So now instead of being mad about SOPA, they're mad about not being able to access the Wikipedia for a day, and they're mad at "a bunch of nerds who are upset about laws that will stop them from stealing stuff."

      Did you watch any of the news about the Wikipedia blackout? All of it put SOPA in a positive light and accused Wikipedia of being "too political."

      The battle's lost. The people don't care. They're just mad at the websites that went on strike, NOT the law they went on strike over.

    3. Re:And yet... by MalleusEBHC · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't be so quick to resort to the usual (and frankly, warranted) pessimism. Yesterday may have been a pivotal moment when the power of the technical community was finally realized. Multiple senators dropped their sponsorship of PIPA. My senators' phone lines were busy all day long. While it's certainly a possibility that everything will return to business as usual, we finally saw a glimmer of the numbers of the masses overwhelming the influence of the money of the few. We have so few other avenues left, so we might as well see if this can effect real change.

    4. Re:And yet... by rmstar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They do "have a shot". We the people get no real say in what bills get passed or not. Best we can do is vote the current person out of office, at which point they get a cushy job in the industry they represented and a new industry spokesperson takes their place.

      I do not think that is correct. We the people do get a say in what bills get passed or not. Please do not underestimate it. Defeatism and apathy are the best allies of those that want to take away our freedoms.

      We the people do have power. Not absolute, but we have it, and when we use it we end up having an influence. Voting is one part of exercising power, and protest (like the blackouts) another. Raising consciousness of the issues and our power is another.

    5. Re:And yet... by Kenja · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We'll know next week when it gets voted on. But even if the bill's get defeated, they will just be tweaked and resubmitted. This will be an ongoing issue that will require massive amounts of vigilance. Many bills are not even read before being voted on. If SOPA/PIPA get renamed "the blankets and apple pie for war orphans" bills we may be in trouble.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  6. Lobying money by future+assassin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    All that money spent on paying of politicians says one thing to me. We don't want to give people access to movies and music. If this wasn't the case the movie studios and music companies would have used that money to develop online distribution websites. How hard would it have been to take all the works you have copyrights to and set up a site where people can buy them and download them.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  7. Again democratic != liberal democratic by Compaqt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Increasingly, "democracies" are passing all sorts of stuff which is repugnant the tradition of liberty:

    -Panopticon street cameras in England
    -Patriot Act in the US
    -Web censorship and the RIM affair in India

    What's needed is an emphasis on "liberal democracies", democracies that promote (classical) liberal values.

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
  8. Unfit for a Democratic County by MoldySpore · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is an extremely fitting description of why the bill shouldn't passed, considering that it will put us under the same umbrella as Iran, China, and Syria...at least when it comes to the DNS blocking part of the bills and internet censorship in general if SOPA/PIPA are passed

    --

    "I hope you know how very lucky you are to know me, because I am so incredibly incredible."

  9. Re:Violates human rights? by RobertLTux · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem is The Internet is rapidly becoming the best way to get The Word out.

    i can see in our lifetimes as different government services go online it becoming almost impossible to do anything of real value without being online somehow.

    we are even now seeing places that have job applications only online and some jobs also require you to already have a phone with text messaging.

    wanna be forced offline (because you have been blackballed due to being a dirty thieving pirate) in a world where business offices either 1 have 5 hour lines just to see anybody 2 are only open Mon-Wed from 11:00 am to 3:00 pm (with a semi random 45 minute Lunch) 3 some combo of both

    --
    Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
  10. Senator Rand Paul Promises PIPA Filibuster by SonicSpike · · Score: 4, Informative

    This just came out yesterday......

    "For the past several months, Sen. Rand Paul has opposed and led the charge against both the PROTECT IP Act (PIPA) and the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). Yesterday, Sen. Paul issued the following statement.

    "The Internet, as we know it, has had a profound impact on job creation, the global economy and prosperity. It has accelerated wealth creation and facilitated a more connected world. But the Internet's development is based on the free flow of information, innovation, and ideas, not central government control," Senator Paul said.

    "Both PIPA and SOPA give the federal government unprecedented and unconstitutional power to censor the Internet. These bills enable the government to shut down websites that it deems guilty of violating copyright laws. While we support copyright protections, we are also concerned about websites being shut down without their day in court, and making innocent third parties bear the costs of solving someone else's problems."

    Sen. Paul concluded, "I will not sit idly by while PIPA and SOPA eliminate the constitutionally protected rights to due process and free speech. For these reasons, I have pledged to oppose, filibuster and do everything in my power to stop government censorship of the Internet.""

    --
    Libertas in infinitum
    1. Re:Senator Rand Paul Promises PIPA Filibuster by Fned · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's just what people who read a lot of Ayn Ron want you to believe.

  11. Re:Violates human rights? by Kenja · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A limitation on the means of exercising a right is a limitation on the right. Saying you have the right to free speech, but not the right to exercise that right is silly.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  12. His thinking the US is a democratic country... by spagthorpe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...is his first mistake. Once you realize that the country is run by corporate overlords, it all makes perfect sense.

    I expect this round of the bill will get shot down. Then someone will attach it as a rider to some BS terrorist or child pr0n bill later in the year with little media coverage.

    --

    WWJD -- What Would Jimi Do?
    (Smash amp, burn guitar, take home the groupies)

  13. Re:Violates human rights? by MrEricSir · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why *shouldn't* the internet be a right? Is there some compelling reason we should restrict our civil liberties instead of expanding them to meet the reality of today's world?

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  14. Re:Violates human rights? by alendit · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Tell me, Mr. Anderson... what good is a phone call... if you're unable to speak?"

    No rights were violated, they just took the means to exercise them...

  15. Re:Violates human rights? by sirlark · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So as long as you have one method of exercising a right, all others can be removed? Then I can deny you the use of a specific method of communication, and not have that considered a limitation of your right to free speech and/or association. What's to stop me throwing you into solitary confinement. That's not an infringement of the right to free speech, as long as you are allowed to scream your protests ... where no one will hear. Sorry, but you not only need to be free from interference in exercising your rights, but also in exercising them effectively, i.e. you have to be allowed to scream where others can hear you. In the modern age, that means the right to publish on the internet. I too am not saying internet access is a right. But I am saying that selective or discriminatory limitation of access to the internet is a violation of the right to free speech.