VGA and DVI Ports To Be Phased Out Over Next 5 Years

angry tapir writes "Legacy VGA and DVI display ports are likely to be phased out in PCs over the next five years, according to a study by NPD In-Stat. Intel and Advanced Micro Devices are ending chipset support for VGA by 2015. The VGA interface was originally introduced in 1986 and DVI was introduced in 1999."

Comments

why phase out DVI?

[Spy Handler]

it gives me crystal-clear digital connection to my monitor, and unlike HDMI, it works every time without fail.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[godrik]

Trying to close the analog hole I guess. Using "smart" HDMI can more easily be used with DRMs. Coupled with machine you can not choose the OS of, and you might have quite annoying copy protection schemes.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[kimvette]

and unlike HDMI, it works every time without fail.

That is why it is being killed off.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

the port connector's huge. Not to mention Dual Link DVI is a pain in the ass.

Display Port/Mini Display Port is tiny and free.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[HerculesMO]

DVI-D has copy protection just as good as HDMI. It supports HDCP.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Fahrvergnuugen]

Not true. DVI supports HDCP just like HDMI does.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Ynot_82]

The "Analogue Hole" is unaffected by digital restrictions
It's the illegitimate* analogue re-capturing of a legitimately decoded digital stream
Think TV-capture card

* From "their" POV

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Anonymous Coward]

Single-link DVI and HDMI are the same signal! They have the exact same TMDS pins! The ones and zeroes are identical! It's the same thing!

Re:why phase out DVI?

[PhrostyMcByte]

HDCP supported DVI before it supported HDMI, and has been available on graphics cards for years. This won't be closing any holes.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[PIBM]

The port connector might be 'huge' by your standard, but at least it won't get out by itself, from either the computer or the monitors. I'm using 3 30" monitor in 2560x1600, and the images are always perfect, switch on immediatly too.

On a TV gaming setup in the basement with HDMI, when there's way too much bass and the TV is vibrating with the sound (older retroprojection TV in which there is a lot of air), there happens some time where the security signal is lost and we lose the image for a few seconds, until it synchronize back. Doesn't happen with the DVI connector, which is a big plus for them.

Anyway, what was your point about the dual link DVI being a PITA ?

Re:why phase out DVI?

[YesIAmAScript]

No, you can also play Blu-ray movies with an HDCP compliant monitor, video card and DVI cable. Or you can do it with VGA. Or you can do it on a integrated display (like a laptop). You just can't do it with non-HDCP digital video out whether HDMI or DVI (well, not at full res you can't, it must be downsampled to 960x540).

Re:why phase out DVI?

[SuricouRaven]

Indeed. Or you can use various unlicenced decryption methods, in which case you don't need an HDCP compliant anything. Pirates win again.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Anrego]

DVI was confusing to non-geeks.

You had, what..

DVI-D, DVI-A, and DVI-I .. plus "single link" and "dual link" thrown in for good measure, and different cables supporing subsets of those and adapters and a variety of "this works with that, but not this other thing".

HDMI is HDMI .. you plug it in and not worry about whether you are using the right mode / cable for your setup.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[SuricouRaven]

Pirates don't even need the analog hole. Both HD-DVD and blu-ray have been cracked enough to just decrypt the disc.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[ackthpt]

Trying to close the analog hole I guess. Using "smart" HDMI can more easily be used with DRMs. Coupled with machine you can not choose the OS of, and you might have quite annoying copy protection schemes.

Yep. Hollywood and Big Media will be pushing for a monitor standard which detects uncertified video, blocks it, reports you and sets your house on fire.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Megaweapon]

DVI can support the same HDCP protection as HDMI because it's the same fucking thing with a different connector shape. The anti-HDMI fud here is idiotic.

Making HDMI ports requires a license/royalty (whereas things like DisplayPort is an open VESA standard and requires no royalty payments).

Re:why phase out DVI?

[jythie]

I suspect it is less because they want to close the analog hole.. and more 'because they can'. This is a huge power trip, and executives who push tech companies to do stuff like this successfully will have promotions and new oppurtutnies awaiting them because they showed how far they can piss.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[ackthpt]

and unlike HDMI, it works every time without fail.

That is why it is being killed off.

Puts me in mind of the wonderful move to SATA connectors .. you know, those damn things which come loose and you have to shut down, open cabinet and push back in place? Honestly, what a horrible connector. HDMI impresses me as another connector which is weak. The next standard will probably have a built in spring for pushing it out at various intervals (usually while you are in the middle of that big presentation, like I was on Wednesday and the video cable to the projector kept falling out.)

Re:why phase out DVI?

[cr_nucleus]

All fullsize displayport adapters i've seen feature a couple of little hooks to prevent cable getting loose.
You then need to press some kind of button to release the plug and extract it, a-la rj45.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[eobanb]

Then again there's HDMI 1.0, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, then for cables there's Standard, Standard with Ethernet, High Speed, plus converter cables to/from DVI, DisplayPort, VGA, and then of course there's HDCP...

...It's always going to be confusing to 90% of people no matter what.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Wrath0fb0b]

[DVI] gives me crystal-clear digital connection to my monitor, and unlike HDMI, it works every time without fail.

Trying to close the analog hole I guess. Using "smart" HDMI can more easily be used with DRMs. Coupled with machine you can not choose the OS of, and you might have quite annoying copy protection schemes.

Nevermind that HDMI is electrically equivalent (adapters are under $3.

Nevermind that DRM operates at different layer than the physical interface, which itself is different from the electrical interface.

Nevermind that HDMI and DVI, by virtue of the above, support the . Note that this is independent of whether a particular display does.

No, no, forget all that nonsense, the real question I have for your post is how you think anyone can try to close the analog hole by deprecating a digital interface?!

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Kjella]

They started a joint venture with Ubisoft?

Re:why phase out DVI?

[idontgno]

Because DVI is also an analog interface? Or are you forgetting the VGA-compatible (analog) C1-C5 signals? Which are, amazingly not at all present in a HDMI connection.

The digital portion of DVI is HDMI-equivalent. The analog portion of DVI is VGA-equivalent. The intent is to demolish VGA, including its equivalents. Hence, DVI has to be banished too.

QED.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[GrumpySteen]

Using an unlicensed decryption program to decrypt a Blu-Ray DVD that you own, rented or borrowed in order to watch it on a non HDCP compliant system it is not piracy, no matter what the MPAA tells you. It may or may not violate the DMCA, but it is absolutely not piracy.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[cpu6502]

So does this phase-out mean I won't be able to use the 4 VGA CRTs and 1 DVI LCD I have accumulated over the years?

What a waste of perfectly functional equipment.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[FirstNoel]

No, You'll be able to use adapters...according to the article.

Otherwise. yeah that would be a waste.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[ackthpt]

Yep. Hollywood and Big Media will be pushing for a monitor standard which detects uncertified video, blocks it, reports you and sets your house on fire.

That's pretty overkill, and probably only represents *AA's starting position in the bargaining. I'm sure they'd be happy with just detonating the explosive slave collar, if they can get the mandate for that piece of content-protection hardware added in the next round of copyright protection legislation.

Seems I read a story in the news yestiddy - MegaUpload cost them $500 Million in losses due to piracy. Really? How did they come to that figure? Wild guess? Actual accounting? Is anyone here just blindly accepting that figure? Don't talk to me about overkill when it comes to Big Media and Hollywood (Hollywood even - legendary for Hollywood Accounting and such phrases as, "Yes the picture did gross $784 Million, but after production, distribution, marketing, promotional activities, etc, etc, etc, we lost money on the picture, which is why you are not getting a 5% of Net, because there is none. By the way, are you available for the Sequel? It'll be collassal!") $500 Million .. sure. And I'm an Asthmahound Chihuahua named 'Stimpy'.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Fallingcow]

As best I can tell the problem is that they created a "smart" spec for the cable then didn't force manufacturers to only put them on "smart" devices, or didn't make a certain degree of smartness and sensible fallbacks part of the spec. Consequently, we've got a bunch of idiot devices that think they're smart and do all kinds of dumb things that a "dumb" connection like VGA wouldn't allow.

Instead of "just work" we've got "just work IF your devices like each other and IF you turn them on in the correct order (note, not always the best or most intuitive order) and IF you have a shaman do the HDMI dance first." My guess is a bit tighter spec and better testing requirements tied to using the HDMI name/logo would have reduced these problem from nearly universal to occasional, at least.

If nothing else the devices all ought to have a "stop trying to be smart and FUCKING DO EXACTLY WHAT I TELL YOU TO DO" mode. You think your source isn't 5.1? BULLSHIT, yes it is. You think you ought to defer to another device for audio out? NO, you're the goddamn audio receiver and I want you to NEVER do that. You went to sleep, woke back up, and now you think there's no capable audio device connected to your HDMI port and you'll continue to think that until I restart you? NO, just send the goddamn bits, because you're wrong.

Actually, that's what the override mode should be called: "Just send the goddamn bits"

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Reece400]

You can already buy inexpensive HDMI / Display Port to VGA / DVI adaptors.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[dgatwood]

Not sure where you get that. The data stream for DisplayPort is not that much more complicated than HDMI. The only real difference is that you have to have a little more advanced logic to check the packet type before you shove the data into the monitor's frame buffer. And ideally, you should do something with some of the other packet types, like providing extra ports, but that's entirely optional. It certainly is not the case that the monitor is doing anything that could be done in the GPU. In all cases, the monitor has to decode the protocol and buffer it, then read that buffer back as it paints the screen. Digital video is not like analog video to a CRT where you could basically let the signal drive the tube....

The DVI-A to VGA adapters cost nothing because they're nothing more than a handful of wires. Of course any adapter that contains electronics is going to cost more than a wire. If you need an HDMI to VGA adapter, that's going to cost you a lot more than a cable, too (about $40—$10 more than a DP to VGA adapter, BTW). It has nothing to do with DP being too complex and everything to do with the fact that active electronics are required to do the job. That and the fact that there are not enough purchasers to drive prices down through economies of scale.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[TheRaven64]

Huh, I thought your karma was so bad you weren't allowed to post anymore.

No, you won't have to throw it away, these ports simply won't appear on new equipment. Being able to connect to VGA is still useful for old projectors, but it's no longer sufficiently important to waste board space on it. I bought a mini DisplayPort to VGA adaptor for £5 including delivery. It contains a set of three 10-bit DACs to generate the VGA signal and works well. I take it with me when I'm going to give presentations, but the rest of the time my laptop is quite happy without VGA.

I suppose that if your existing computer dies and you can afford a new computer, but can't afford a £5 adaptor then you may have to throw them away...

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Dogtanian]

From your nic, I presume that you're not much up on the leading edge of computer hardware.

You mean he has an ancient ISA one with 10Base2 BNC connectors or something like that?

Re:why phase out DVI?

[YesIAmAScript]

Neither HDMI graphics cards nor HDMI monitors require HDCP. HDCP is not required on HDMI.

I ran HDMI from my DirecTV receiver to my Dell display (DVI input) for years. No HDCP required nor used (and the display didn't support it!).

There is nothing in the system that requires HDCP except the signal transmitting device. After the HDMI connection is set up, the transmitter knows whether it has active HDCP or not. The transmitter may then refuse to transmit video if the video it is to send is marked as not transportable over digital connections that don't use HDCP. For example an Xbox 360 will play games but not media content over a non-HDCP HDMI connection. A PS3 won't show anything at all over HDMI if there is no HDCP.

There is absolutely nothing enforced by the monitor vis-a-vis HDCP. If the sender sends video and monitor understands the format and encryption it displays it. It is completely up to the sender to decide what should and should not be displayed.

The rules for sending content over DVI are exactly the same as those over HDMI. If the content is marked as not showable over non-encrypted digital connections it cannot be shown over any non-encrypted digital connections, whether HDMI, DVI, MiniDP, etc.

Would it be too big an imposition to become informed about the facts before projecting hate?

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Guspaz]

Actually, it was a legitimate problem with early SATA connectors. Manufacturers have since redesigned the connectors so that they don't suffer from this problem; these days, you can feel the SATA connector snapping into place when you plug it in. That wasn't true when they first came out, regardless of price.

Re:why phase out DVI?

[Creepy]

DisplayPort is not just an industry standard, it is a royalty free standard, but HDMI seems to be winning - the only device I've seen with DisplayPort is my 2+ year old HP laptop and I have about 18 devices with HDMI in my household (heck, our cellphones even have it).

Interesting

[Oxford_Comma_Lover]

The one that was introduced 13 years later is being phased out at the same time as the one that was introduced thirty-six years ago? How odd.

Re:Interesting

[SirWhoopass]

I guess 25 is almost 35.

Especially when you're 16.

All about HDCP

[TankSpanker04]

I suspect the driving force toward HDMI-only is anti piracy efforts in the form of mandatory HDCP on any new display hardware.

Re:All about HDCP

[TheGratefulNet]

*is* there usb over hdmi? I know they hacked it to support ethernet.

as for audio, here's some semi-hidden truth: audio is multiplexed in (not literally but close enough) to the digital stream. ie, they take digital video (dvi is fine for that and *always* has been) and then they do a data stream *merge* and create a new binary stream that is a+v. audio comes from 2-channel spdif or multichannel dd/dts.

here's the part that annoys the hell out of me (and should, you, too): those two streams did NOT have to be mixed. video could have gone down the cable in one wire set (like dvi) and audio could have been run in a single coax cable or fiber (spdif or toslink, which all modern home stereos support as audio inputs).

this means that you ONCE did have control over your a and v. you could patch in or out, anything, at any time. no fancy equipment needed. running audio as audio wiring and video as video wiring is just two cables and it was never a big deal to run those 2 in the back of your stereo or tv console. the rgb multi bnc cable madness of analog video *was* nuts and did need cleaning up, but once you go digital, 2 small wires or 1 is not a big deal.

but to 'content guys' they saw an opportunity to swoop in and fuck things up. they mixed the 2 physical streams into a new one and encoded it. 'hdmi-audio' is then born. and it sucks.

you can currently get 24bit audio with 192k and higher bitrates on stereo. I suspect you can do full multichannel on a single coax cable, too; and perhaps on a higher grade fiber (not toslink) as well. there is still no reason to have to weave in audio to video and encrypt the whole thing as a 'secure bundle'. it really messes up higher end audio systems that use outboard DACs. getting audio out of hdmi is expensive and that is totally uncalled for.

dvi is perfectly fine for video but if they are 'coming' for dvi, I bet they are going to try to cut out or cut back on digital audio (as regular pure audio, or as audio that accompanies a video stream). I actually care more about audio than video and so I really do insist on my audio stream staying separate. and its easy, today; you run a HTPC with an spdif-out sound card and you point your app's 'sound card' at the spdif card. if they are shooting for 'no more hdmi' I bet they are not long for 'no more spdif'. spdif is (can be) bit-perfect and so I realize its a continual annoyance to 'content creators'. I hope I'm wrong about a future attempt to grab digital audio as its own wiring (sans video).

Ain't happening

[DesScorp]

We've still got serial ports. There are still motherboards with a parallel port, for goodness sake. VGA ain't going away anytime soon.

Re:Ain't happening

[rubycodez]

I've never seen a motherboard *without* a parallel port or serial. they're not connected, but they are there. hell, my two month old motherboard with the trendy eSata and DVI for six core chip has floppy and "game" port on it!

Deep breath everyone. DVI==HDMI

[slimjim8094]

While I like DVI and have a monitor that uses it, going HDMI only is not a big deal. HDMI is just DVI plus a little extra, for audio, and the cost of that "little extra" is already negligible.

This means that a DVI-DVI, HDMI-HDMI, and DVI-HDMI cable are the same price. I spent $5 on one a few years back.

No difference! Unbunch your panties

30 Years of VGA

[scorp1us]

Lets hope that whatever follows has the same longevity as VGA. In a world where we've invented USB 3 times (USB, mini USB and micro USB) with non-compatible connectors in just 11 years, the future does not look as good.

Re:30 Years of VGA

[GameboyRMH]

USB and the mini and micro variants are a success story if anything. The plugs are electrically identical, just physically smaller, and they're industry-standard. Meanwhile Apple was coming up with all kinds of crazy stupid proprietary shit (going so far as the infamous Charger Resistor Trick) and many other manufacturers were making proprietary connectors for individual device models.

Re:30 Years of VGA

[IntlHarvester]

Actually Mini-USB was the fragile one and Micro was introduced because it's more robust.

Business use laptops and projectors

[dogbertsd]

It may be that many of you in the home market won't miss VGA, but in most corporate offices, VGA is the only common connection supported by the projectors in most conference rooms. While an adapter is an option, I suspect that laptops marketed to businesses will have VGA adapters for longer than the next five years as the refresh cycle for projectors is generally much longer than the refresh cycle for laptops.

Re:Business use laptops and projectors

[MROD]

Wrong, just plain wrong.

There is little support for HDMI within the seminar room equipment available, it's practically all VGA only. It's only very high end kit which has HDMI support.
If you add to that most, if not all, "presenter" units (that is the back-lit camera systems people can use to show objects or hand-written notes) are VGA output only, the only real solution is analogue video, even though it doesn't travel long distances well (though this can be worked around with video senders).

The reason I know this is that only a couple of years ago I was on a committee running the kitting out of some lecture theatres and seminar rooms. None of the tendering A/V companies could supply a complete system using DVI, HDMI or any other digital video technology even though we asked them to look into it.

VGA is *THE* de-facto lowest common denominator computer video format, it's likely to stay that way for a *VERY* long time.

Re:HDMI fasteners?

[lattyware]

That's why DisplayPort is the standard designed for PCs. HDMI is designed for TVs. DP cables have a locking mechanism that works well, without the annoyance of screwing in cables.

Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

Now I can pull video cable up the back of a workstation without it catching on every god damned cable, wire, footstool and purse in the remote vicinity.

Raspberry Pi

[lobiusmoop]

And people complain that the Raspberry Pi (which is not even out the door yet) doesn't support VGA... sheesh.

Re:DVI is HDMI without sound and video cards

[Nick Ives]

DVI is HDMI without sound and video cards are not the best for sound and PC displays do not have more then 2 speakers any ways.

Does any PC display with HDMI have some kind of DD pass though or 5.1 or more analog out?

Video cards are as good for digital sound as anything. All they do is take the digital signal from your applications and send them digitally over HDMI. Barring driver bugs, it's just the same as any digital output on anything.

I think for DD pass-through a device has to support DD. I have my 360 connected to my TV and my TV connected to my surround sound and DD5.1 works fine. My TV doesn't support DTS though, so I have to connect my PS3 directly to my surround sound in order for that to work.

Re:And switch to HDMI?

[HerculesMO]

The sync of an HDMI cable isn't fast -- it's slow. So if you swap to a HDCP protected stream and then off of it, the monitor will flicker or sometimes, not come back at all. Then you need to reboot.

Just basically, it sucks. Read about HDMI handshake issues and you'll see what I mean.

easy solution, HDMI/DVI adapter

[Chirs]

Since DVI-D is just HDMI minus the audio, you can get cheap passive HDMI-to-DVI adapters. They work fine for connecting DVI monitors to HDMI video sources, or vice versa. No quality loss.

There are DisplayPort-to-* converters

[3.1415926535]

DisplayPort can be converted to HDMI or single-link DVI with a cheap, passive adapter.
You can also convert it to VGA or dual-link DVI using active adapters (they show up to the computer as DisplayPort devices).