CEOs of RIM Step Down

Too late? by methamorph · 2012-01-22 19:49 · Score: 5, Insightful

it seem's the decision they made is about a year too late.

Re:Too late? by davester666 · 2012-01-22 20:07 · Score: 5, Insightful

Oh, it's WAY more than a year too late. Maybe 5 or so.
Of course, Microsoft is setting an absolutely terrible example for the industry. They should have at least demoted the dancing monkey way more than 5 years ago. Kodak board: Hm, there's been some serious financial reporting. We'd better fire the person telling us about it.
Of course, the only ones that take it in the shorts are the small investors.

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Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Re:Too late? by davester666 · 2012-01-22 20:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

If I were a RIM investor, I would be scared if he didn't make big changes. The old co-CEO's weren't tossed because they weren't liked. It was because they couldn't see how the iPhone was physically possible [AFTER it was demonstrated by SJ on stage].

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Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Re:Too late? by Mockylock · 2012-01-22 23:27 · Score: 5, Interesting

You're absolutely right. They did nothing to react to the rest of the smartphone devices when they were pulling in money. It seemed as if years went by and their devices were exactly the same, as well as the same interface and services... all while the rest of the world was changing on a daily basis. That money should have been tossed in R&D while they had it, and now it's too late. With the interaction you can get from other solutions (exchange/web/etc) and better phones, they're way too late on switching out leaders. I don't believe they have enough revenue coming in to catch up. I'm guessing when stock drops more, a company such as Microsoft will gobble them up, considering MS is looking for a business platform for Windows Phone and has enough money to turn it around.

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"Please, shut up. Just when I think you can't say anything more stupid, you speak again." -Archie Bunker.
Re:Too late? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-22 23:52 · Score: 5, Informative

> Kodak board: Hm, there's been some serious financial reporting. We'd better
> fire the person telling us about it.
*cough* that was Olympus. Kodak's board does seem clueless, but not evil.
Re:Too late? by tgd · 2012-01-23 01:42 · Score: 4, Informative

Oh, it's WAY more than a year too late. Maybe 5 or so.
Of course, Microsoft is setting an absolutely terrible example for the industry. They should have at least demoted the dancing monkey way more than 5 years ago.
I disagree. Microsoft's stock may have been stagnant over the last decade, but its also payed out an enormous amount of money in dividends. Ballmer wasn't holding the reins when the big drop in the stock happened during the dot-com bubble bursting, and the thing that Microsoft got out of it was a firm transition from a "tech" stock to a solid blue-chip stock. The type of investors who buy those securities are very different, and the responsibility of the board and CEO are very different. Microsoft showing solid revenue growth, relative stock price stability and consistent payment of dividends *is* what the stockholders expect. It means everything needs to be more conservative.
Contract that to Apple -- their stock graph, while steadily rising over time, has a sharp sawtooth pattern to it with quick-flip investors sinking billions into it, catching that wave. (I invested a pretty decent amount into Apple two years ago and have nearly *quadrupled* the amount by riding the sawtooth up!) But that pattern doesn't make Apple a better company or a better investment. I've got a lot of Microsoft stock, too -- that stock I'm equally happy with. I *expect* the Apple stock to crash. The investing pattern I follow (and clearly most investors are following, based on those cycles) is exactly that. We all *know* their value is based on transient hype, and not a solid foundation. Thats why people keep pulling money out, waiting out peak and buying back in the dip! The Microsoft stock, on the other hand, I know I'll get a steady return from and never really even consider selling.
For both of those, as an investor in both companies, I'm very happy with both Jobs' job and Ballmers' job.
Re:Too late? by Herkum01 · 2012-01-23 03:58 · Score: 4, Informative

I don't understand your definition of "enormous amount of money in dividends". Their last dividend of was 20 cents/share or projecting forward 80 cents a year.
Their stock price has been around 25 to 30 dollars a share, to be generous lets call it $25 (for comparing the payout).
$0.80 / $25 = is a 3.2% return on the dividends, that is with the highest payout in 2011 and the lowest stock price. I would not be looking at Microsoft as a blue-chip stock in anyway or form.
Re:Too late? by jellomizer · 2012-01-23 09:30 · Score: 4, Insightful

Well they did (Black Berry Thunder) respond but they figured that the iPhone would be a Toy Phone and Black Berries would be for Business. Their mistake wasn't as much in their phones but their software, they needed a full web browser very soon after the iPhone 1. Right when the iPhone came out they needed to push big on third party developers to make custom apps for the black berry. But they waited for Apple to get 3rd party developers to make apps first then all was lost.

People forgot that the original iPhone had a luke warm reaction. A lot of buzz but a lot of people really couldn't justify getting one. Sure it was cool but limited without apps. Blackberry could have seen the what people wanted from an iPhone and put a lot of effort behind giving the black berry those features. G3 Internet, Well made custom apps, a strong web browser, they could have made it while keeping the keyboard, and the trackball.

What happened is there are two type of competition.
Competing with competitors who are trying to be like you.
Competing with competitors who are trying to bring the next step.
Previously for BlackBerry most of the smart phones out there were little black berry clones that may have one or two key features that were improvements. Which makes it easy for RIM to add in their next version, in the mean time you can wait and just use your brand name, and see if that new features is liked or not.

Apple didn't try to make a better Black Berry they wanted to make a new type of phone. RIM tried their old process but it failed because the product was too different. They had to really innovate their product to keep it relevant, and they couldn't make an iPhone clone.

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If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.

Slow down, slow down, one step at a time ... by perpenso · 2012-01-22 20:00 · Score: 4, Insightful

... will now lead the BlackBerry maker as it attempts to beat the likes of Apple and Google

Slow down, slow down, one step at a time. How about we get the company nice and healthy first and work on dominating the industry after that.

Re:Slow down, slow down, one step at a time ... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-01-22 20:07 · Score: 5, Insightful

Perhaps they can get nice and healthy by not trying to compete.
But yes, the quote is a bit of a funny statement, and your response is funny. Perhaps a better way of putting all of this is that it would be more realistic and acceptable for RIM's goal to have a healthy market share alongside its rivals. To coexist, rather than beat or be beaten.

Beat? by addie · 2012-01-22 20:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

"as it attempts to beat the likes of Apple and Google"

A strange choice of words. I think "as it attempts to compete with the likes of..." would be more accurate and desirable - the last thing the technology market needs these days is a single, clearcut winner (at least, if you're a consumer). That aside, as a Canadian I'd like to see RIM survive on its own and if this helps to shake things up then it's a welcome move; I don't fancy the thought of the Samsung chaebol gaining even more power than it already has.

Re:Beat? by dredwerker · 2012-01-22 20:37 · Score: 4, Informative

"as it attempts to beat the likes of Apple and Google"
A strange choice of words. I think "as it attempts to compete with the likes of..." would be more accurate and desirable - the last thing the technology market needs these days is a single, clearcut winner (at least, if you're a consumer). That aside, as a Canadian I'd like to see RIM survive on its own and if this helps to shake things up then it's a welcome move; I don't fancy the thought of the Samsung chaebol gaining even more power than it already has.
I thought you had made a typo with chaebol but no http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol
"Chaebol (from chae: wealth or property + pl: faction or clan)[1] refers to a South Korean form of business conglomerate. They are global multinationals owning numerous international enterprises. The term is often used in a context similar to that of the English word "conglomerate". The term was first used in 1984.[1]"

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On a long enough timeline. The survival rate for everyone drops to zero. Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, 1996

Re:Must be a sad day for these guys by penguinchris · 2012-01-22 21:24 · Score: 4, Insightful

Surely there's some truth to that, but... as CEOs they've made their millions, and they probably will receive millions more as a severance package. Hard to feel that sad for them.

Marketing by Kupfernigk · 2012-01-22 21:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

The big change in RIM is that they have been run by two people who really did not understand the need for marketing. Even when watching the Reality Distortion Factor at work, they didn't understand it. RIM's problem has been that they acquired consumer market share almost by accident and didn't cover it with love, hugs and kisses. They need marketing.

How many people understand the difference between pull and push email and how it affects them in the pocket? How many developers understand why Neutrino has advantages over iOS?

A serious marketing department would have launched the Playbook by giving them away to every Android developer who cared to ask for one. They would have spent money in product placement, developed a Curve phone optimised to work with the Playbook, and sold them as a single product so that people "got" the Bridge from day 1. Instead, they launched at far too high a price with a corporate advertisement that nobody understood. People saw the lack of native email as a downside, not seeing that with a BB phone you had one mobile connection that worked both devices. It was a classical launch by engineers who assumed that everybody was as clever as they were.

However, unlike HP, the tablet is pretty good, and there is still market share to lose. Their best bet is to spend marketing money outside the US in the emergent markets and Europe, since they cannot compete with Apple.

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From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."

Re:Marketing by Your.Master · 2012-01-23 00:05 · Score: 4, Insightful

If you never found somebody who loved their blackberry, you just weren't looking very hard. For instance, frickin' Barack Obama.
They were quite popular and, among a shrinking subset of people, still are (particularly for BBM in social circles where sufficient people have that that you essentially get free texting without fucking with shitty 3rd party IM apps).
Re:Marketing by EastCoastSurfer · 2012-01-23 00:37 · Score: 4, Insightful

If you never found somebody who loved their blackberry, you just weren't looking very hard. For instance, frickin' Barack Obama.
I've found the majority of those people didn't love the BB, they loved email on the go. They loved being fully connected all the time, and for a long time the BB was only device that did corporate email at all.

Heins and RIM vs Elop and Nokia by Dynamoo · 2012-01-22 21:54 · Score: 4, Insightful

Thorsten Heins is a RIM guy through-and-through, he was personally responsible for a lot of RIM's decisions in past years. His introductory video basically shows a guy who is out of touch with RIM's fundamental problems.. he promises more of the same, which is really just a recipe for disaster. Compare this with Stephen Elop of Nokia and his "burning platform" memo which showed a new CEO who realised just how screwed their company was unless they made very radical changes.

Although it isn't certain that Elop will manage to save Nokia, he at least understood that painful changes needed to be made. I'm not sure that Heins understands the dangers that RIM finds itself in though..

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Never email donotemail@WeAreSpammers.com

Re:Heins and RIM vs Elop and Nokia by Ecuador · 2012-01-22 23:11 · Score: 5, Insightful

You talk about Elop like he is a good thing, when he is either a complete idiot or a Microsoft shill (I estimate the latter).
He was correct that Symbian was a difficult environment to develop to (my company gave it up for that reason), however Nokia had explicitly asked Symbian developers to hold on and they would provide a unified dev environment for all their platforms based on QT, so things were getting better. So, with one announcement he breaks the promise and alienates the thousands of Symbian developers. Developers are the only thing more important than consumers, by alienating them he most likely guaranteed Nokia will fail. He is probably confident that Windows developers will jump to Windows OS so he doesn't really need the traditional Nokia developers. He is probably wrong.
Then, his only problem with MeeGo (that he admitted - not being a Microsoft OS is more likely the true reason) is that at most Nokia would have one MeeGo device this year. Hey! Do you know which other company does not release more than one new device per year? Perhaps the one you are trying to go after? How do THEY do it? And of course, let's not mention that it was a lie - they had TWO devices to release, the N9 which was released in very small markets (Kazakhstan, Denmark etc lest someone might notice how good it is) and the N950 which was not sold but given to a few select MeeGo developers (you can't even find it on ebay at any price).
And have you seen the N9? Probably not since it was not sold in any major markets, but it is truly an awesome device mainly due to its OS. My company currently mainly works on iOS so I have all the Apple devices at home, but when my wife saw the N9 it was the only time she was impressed by a device. (Her words after trying out "hey, compared to your iphone this looks like it came from 2050!"). So while the N900 was the perfect geek tool, the N9 is the only device I have tried that is easier, more fun to use and much much more powerful than the iOS devices (sorry Android...).
So, yeah, while Symbian had to go, the developers should not have been scared away. They should have been first moved to MeeGo, which was the original plan with the QT platform being the common denominator, and all resources gone to MeeGo which (sadly, because it is stillborn) is the best current mobile OS, although the limited resources behind it kind of show up as some instability...
If you think I talked to much about Nokia, you should see how much I could say about RIM. However, current litigation prevents me from doing so, so commenting on RIM's outgoing "NIH" leaders or their successor will have to be deferred to a later time...

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Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS

Re:Bye bye RIM... by gmhowell · 2012-01-22 22:06 · Score: 5, Funny

I guess that'll be the end of RIM. Last year it was REM. What's next? RAM? ROM?

Oh dear God, please don't let it be rum!

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Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon

I don't see the problem, enlighten me? by DigiTechGuy · 2012-01-23 02:23 · Score: 4, Insightful

I don't really see any major problems with RIM. Their target market is businesses who need security and granular manageability. The company I work for happens to require those things. RIM is the best choice I'm aware of to meet those requirements. I will qualify that by saying I am a BES admin so maybe a little blinded by that, which is why I'd like fellow technical people to let me know what the real issues with RIM are and how the competition is superior.

As for devices themselves... I use a Bold 9900 currently and I like it. The touchscreen is great for navigating, though every now and again I have to tap something twice which seems due to slower processor taking a moment. This does not bother me. The built in browser now supports tabbed browsing, a plus but wasn't a big deal for me. The trackball is now a touch sensitive input, like the 9700. Before this phone I thought the 9700 was great with the upgrade from trackball to touch sensor. I disliked the smaller screen and size of the 9700 as I went to that from a 9000.

The Bolt 9900 meets business needs as I see them and as I use my phone. It provides secure email, whole device encryption, excellent remote management, and a functional level of referencing pdf/doc/xls/ppt... As functional as can be on a small screen. Android/iOS devices are marginally better at this due to the larger screen, gained from lack of a physical keyboard, but still not great. For referencing or especially editing those types of documents you're into tablet or notebook territory simply for the larger screen.

The only downside I see to the 9900 for the time I've had it, is battery life sucks. If I use it lightly I can get a day and change out of it. If I use it heavily I have to charge before the day is through. If you plan for it you will pretty much always have access to charge, but it's unacceptable to not make it at least a full day of moderate to heavy use. By that I mean phone calls, email, attachments, corporate IM, light web browsing, etc. Not playing games or watching multimedia all day. The 9900 has a much lower capacity battery than the 9000 did. I believe RIM did this to keep the device thin. Personally I don't care about having a thin device. Give the most MAh you can, to be sure it'll last at least two full days of use between charges, preferably longer. I don't care if it's as thick as an old "dumb phone". It stays on my belt out of the way, along with my personal phone ( a 5 year old dumb phone that can make calls and text), knife, flashlight and wahtever else I may be carrying. Smaller/lighter is nice but not at the detriment of battery life.

So please, /., if I am out of touch with how RIM is not meeting the needs of businesses please let me know. For personal devices, sure, Android and iOS have an edge. What are the real issues with RIM being inadequate for business use, particularly where central manageability and security are critical? To expand on that, if you believe iOS or Android are competitive there, what tools does one use to have easy centralized management and security comparable to BES if managing a few hundred mobile devices?

Re:I don't see the problem, enlighten me? by billybob_jcv · 2012-01-23 02:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

Your post shows EXACTLY the problem with RIM - the thinking that screen size, screen quality, browser features and games are unimportant for business users. Of course they are important - and we want our corporate email, calendar & address book AND a good browser, games & a nice screen.
The most telling part of your post that indicates you are a dinosaur is this line: "It stays on my belt out of the way, along with my personal phone ( a 5 year old dumb phone that can make calls and text), knife, flashlight and wahtever else I may be carrying." Be gone ye demon of the past - there is no place for you in this time!!
Re:I don't see the problem, enlighten me? by Ubergrendle · 2012-01-23 02:45 · Score: 4, Interesting

You are not out of touch. RIM is still profitable and has a large entrenched market share. They are actually growing in BRIC countries, where the better battery life + lower cost + combined e-mail/internet/phone footprint makes alot of sense. Not everyone needs $0.99 fart apps, or can afford $0.99 USD songs for their ipod replacement.

RIM is in trouble, but not disasterously so. Their market share decline isn't an absolute decline; its that the iphone and android market has grown so large due to their consumer focus. The consumer market is bigger than the business/professional market...always has been, always will be.

RIM offers a reliable delivery network not dependent upon a pastiche of ISPs/phone carriers. The central management is a huge advantage for enterprises. And the device itself is more secure and reliable than any of the other whiz-bang devices.

My corporation just completed a 1000 user trial of iphone replacement for BB. The program was cancelled 1 month into the 3 month pilot; the BB's reliability and keyboard (and calendaring) was irreplaceable.

RIM"s biggest challenge at this point is they lack growth (a big no-no in our 'quarterly results' driven culture)... their primary business is replacement sales -- steady revenue. They've missed consumer growth opportunities ... I had a pearl, it was awful. D

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John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"

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