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Jailbreaking the Internet For Freedom's Sake

snydeq writes "With so many threats to a free and open Internet, sooner or later, people will need to arm themselves for the fight, writes Deep End's Paul Venezia. 'If the baboons succeed in constraining speech and information flow on the broader Internet, the new Internet will emerge quickly. For an analogy, consider the iPhone and the efforts of a few smart hackers who have allowed anyone to jailbreak an iPhone with only a small downloaded app and a few minutes,' Venezia writes. 'All that scenario would require would be a way to wrap up existing technologies into a nice, easily-installed package available through any number of methods. Picture the harrowing future of rampant Internet take-downs and censorship, and then picture a single installer that runs under Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux that installs tor, tools to leverage alternative DNS servers, anonymizing proxies, and even private VPN services. A few clicks of the mouse, and suddenly that machine would be able to access sites "banned" through general means.'"

270 comments

  1. For great justice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    For great justice?

    1. Re:For great justice? by carrier+lost · · Score: 0

      For great justice?

      Offtopic???

      One thing I will never understand:

      Mods without humor

      They set you up the bomb, dude.

    2. Re:For great justice? by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 0

      Make your time!

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
  2. Achilles Heel by wanzeo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Any alternative internet technology relies on encryption, and as long as courts have to ability to require you to decrypt data upon request, any discussion of workarounds is pointless.

    To really address the real problem, the laws themselves must be the focus.

    1. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      While there are idiots in positions of power, there will be stupid laws.

      The focus should be on the lawmakers, not the laws

    2. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are breaking the law accessing banned websites, why would you care if you are breaking the law by not turning over decryption keys?

      When encryption is criminalized, only criminals will use encryption.

    3. Re:Achilles Heel by Lundse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nonsense.

      "Upon request", as you say. "Courts". Ie. within a legal framework, subject to rights, seizure and eventually your own compliance.

      The danger we are trying to avert, is the disappearance of the need for those things. Of course the evildoers can always get a death squad or a court order - but they cannot automatically spy on everyone and aggregate the results, nor keep us from doing and saying what we want.

      That, not immunity from due process, is what we are looking for.

      --
      IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
    4. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The basic infrastructure of your internet needs to be controlled by the government. As long as private interests own the "tubes" that data flows through, there will be someone after controls that favour their interests, and they will always be imposing rules that suit them.
      Co-operative infrastructure is also a viable alternative to privately-controlled infrastructure. If it is *your* infrastructure, then others' rules carry far less weight.

    5. Re:Achilles Heel by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      Perhaps more to the point, it has been abundantly demonstrated that your average user doesn't have the slightest ability to distinguish between a trojan and a legitimate application(to be fair, most 'geeks' aren't too much better off, in terms of technical analysis; but at least they sometimes know where to go for advice).

      Court orders are boring and sometimes require public disclosure to get. Spamming the internet with dozens of variants of "PHUCK the MAN Anon-t00lk1t l33t.exe" and "Ultimate untraceable blackhat.iso" bugged to send some of that fancy encrypted traffic straight to the boys in Quantico with the little curly ear-wires is easy...

      If it comes to it, you can always get a court order(or a black bag and a charter flight from North Carolina; but if the history of cutekittensand/orporn.jpeg.exe is anything to go by, it will be much, much, easier to just start spreading malware disguised as tools for na'er-do-wells.

    6. Re:Achilles Heel by StikyPad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      courts have to ability to require you to decrypt data upon request

      True, but irrelevant. First, caching aside, how many people store their communications? The courts can't force you to do something you can't do. Second, the endpoints are (currently, typically) not encrypted anyway. Third, under SOPA it's not illegal to access the sites, just for DNS to return their IP and for Google (and who?) to list them in search results.

      The biggest hurdle is that Tor sucks and most people won't want to use their bandwidth to act as a router for anonymous traffic.

      I do agree with your conclusion though: laws should be the focus.

    7. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There are technologies like ssh and ssl where the end user has zero clue what the session key is.

    8. Re:Achilles Heel by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      Then while we're at it, we should probably double-check just to make sure that the due process really truly is due. Remember that the US DoJ has had a few nasty smears on its track record when it comes to electronic surveillance. We need a less corruptible set of rules for arbitration in these cases.

      Perhaps an all-knowing artificial intelligence would do the trick...

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    9. Re:Achilles Heel by Tastecicles · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      oh, I can think of so many analogies...

      cartridge-load sidearms: illegal if you're a civilian, not if you're a police officer or a soldier on duty. Police officers and soldiers are therefore criminals.
      Tasers: illegal if you're a civilian, not if you're a police officer. Police officers are criminals.
      Class A drugs: illegal if you're not a pharmacist or prescribed user. Pharmacists and prescribed users are criminals.

      Oh, the doozy:

      Any blunt or sharp tool, hand drawn or powered, that is used in carpentry or metalwork or masonry or food preparation: illegal if you're not on site and actually using it. All metalworkers, carpenters, masons, builders, hobby mechanics, bicycle repairers and housewives are criminals.

      Mod me down. I double dare ya! :)

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
    10. Re:Achilles Heel by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      How about an open wifi mesh network?

    11. Re:Achilles Heel by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Given that these are useless for anything "Internet"-related, I don't know... what about them?

    12. Re:Achilles Heel by elrous0 · · Score: 2

      It's not so much a technological problem as it is a social one. It's not a question of whether you can bypass the blocks or not, it's more a question of whether you're willing to suffer the consequences if you get CAUGHT with illegal bypass/proxy/VPN software. Many people are willing to TALK freedom, a much smaller number are willing to get the shit kicked out of them by a cop or get thrown into jail or prison for a few years for actually EXERCISING it.

      There will always be ways to bypass oppression, but will the masses be willing to risk the consequences of using them?

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    13. Re:Achilles Heel by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Courts are rather slow, and not very secretive - the suspect will know about the efforts against him. You can't use mass-monitoring if you have to ask everyone to decrypt their data for you.

    14. Re:Achilles Heel by Lundse · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong - I am all for improving the justice system, fair laws, etc. etc.

      I am just not a fan of trusting either. Especially not the lawmakers - as they are a single point of failure, and easily (and already) bought.

      I would rather live in a world where any and all regimes (however legitimate, fair, corrupt or not they may be) will need to secure me, my cooperation and my property before they can listen in on my conversations, check what I do on my computer or strip away my anonymity.

      --
      IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
    15. Re:Achilles Heel by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't trust private owners, and I don't trust the government. I'm undecided which one I trust least. Cooperatives don't really scale well. The best option I see is to make it technologically difficult for whoever controls the tubes to abuse their power: If all the data is encrypted, and they can't decrypt it, what can they do? Worst they might achieve would be blocking by address, but that's a modest level of evil compared to what they could do if the data were not encrypted.

    16. Re:Achilles Heel by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Soon as you find a way to route between a few million nodes without central management and in a highly dynamic network.

    17. Re:Achilles Heel by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is very true but the problem is the general populace doesn't give a shit. As long as they have access to FaceBook, Twitter, etc. they remain clueless on what virtual freedom means. They are too busy watching the Super Bow going apeshit over juvenile humor as nipplegate.

      It is only the geeks that see the laws out of sync with the "moral compass" of society. Even an idiot can see that it absurd that you can't copy / share a number -- yet this is precisely what the laws says you can't do! Share a number which is a representation of reality (audio, video, text, algorithm) because somebody has asserted their "copyright" -- people don't want to talk about digital ownership being an artificial right based on the false belief of "scarcity."

      People won't do something -- change the laws -- until they perceive somebody else's "rights" are stopping their privileges. Until then, a small majority will keep on exercising their civil disobedience by ignoring copyright.

    18. Re:Achilles Heel by deroby · · Score: 1

      it might work for urban and even sub-urban locations, but I think we'll need more than ordinary /cantenna/'s to cross the Atlantic =P

      --
      If there is one thing to be learned on slashdot, it has to be sarcasm.
    19. Re:Achilles Heel by NIN1385 · · Score: 2

      When freedom is outlawed, only outlaws will have freedom.

      --

      If carrots got you drunk, rabbits would be fucked up. - Comedian Mitch Hedberg R.I.P. 03/30/68-2/24/05
    20. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point. He's not saying that people who are legally allowed to use things are criminals. He's saying that people who are criminals don't care what the law says; they will use it anyway if needed. And since someone accessing an "illegal" website is already a criminal, why would they give the court their passwords/keys?

      Edit: captcha is miseries... miseries, indeed.

    21. Re:Achilles Heel by jd2112 · · Score: 5, Funny

      When marriage is outlawed, only outlaws will have inlaws.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    22. Re:Achilles Heel by MartinG · · Score: 2

      I have much less of a problem being asked by a court to decrypt data than being censored abrtitrarily at the say-so of random large media companies.

      --
      -- MartinG To mail me: echo kewyjlcxyzvjfxbqwh | tr bcefhjklqvwxyz .@adgimnoprstu
    23. Re:Achilles Heel by Oligonicella · · Score: 3, Informative

      "It is only the geeks that see the laws out of sync with the "moral compass" of society."

      As a geek, allow me to say "Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!"

      "Even an idiot can see that it absurd .... false belief of "scarcity.""

      That is nowhere near as deep or as true as you think it is.

      You have wrapped yourself in geek arrogance, which may or may not be deserved, and believe that it elevates your opinion to fact. It does not. There are a number of geeks on /. who do not believe as you do and I'll warrant are your intellectual equal without problem.

      Climb down.

    24. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I still don't understand like someone else here said deep in this thread, how copying ones and zeros is a crime. As long as I'm using it in my home and not selling it for profit in some manner, what is the problem? Is it illegal for me to draw pictures of Voltron or Super Mario Brothers down to the exact detail that their copyrighted versions appear to be and then hang them up on my wall? If I were selling these pictures on eBay then of course that would be illegal but seriously? Copying a string of 1's and 0's, or 'pirating media' is considered stealing?? I can see the gray line here but it comes down to this in my opinion, if one has the means to conjure up an exact replica of a thing and wishes to use it for his own personal nonprofit enjoyment, he should be allowed to do so.

    25. Re:Achilles Heel by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      The basic infrastructure of your internet needs to be controlled by the government.

      Oh hell no.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    26. Re:Achilles Heel by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      I've been experimenting with a few commodity routers (that can support open-wrt or dd-wrt) for just such a purpose. Do you have any good references? I'm envisioning some roof-top and tree-mounted self-contained set of router/repeaters than can run off a small battery and solar charger...

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    27. Re:Achilles Heel by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      I don't trust private owners, and I don't trust the government. I'm undecided which one I trust least.

      Don't sweat it. They're the same thing. Two sides of one coin. The lack of one precludes the existence of the other.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    28. Re:Achilles Heel by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well said. Unfortunately, the lot who are busy beating the broken drum of scarcity are making it difficult for the rest of us who are honestly interested in fair laws around IP.

      Should IP be protected? Absolutely. I like that people get paid to be creative and provide me with entertainment. If we don't protect it and pay the people who created it (and yes, when necessary, distributed it), then we'll not have it anymore. To do that, the laws have to, and had to, change. And those laws must be enforced.

      Piracy is out of hand today. As 'geeks', we've provided the public with the ability to break IP protection laws with impunity. It's not acceptable to the creators of such content, and it is not sustainable.

      Now, that said, I'm fine with why it happened. It happened because of improved technology, and to be sure there are companies that reject the model on that basis alone. While I want to see legislation that will protect content owners, I would hate to see them protect and prop up those who fail to adopt their business models to match the new technology. But as long as people focus on something as stupid as the "scarcity" defense, we're not going to convince the lawmakers, content owners, or even the general public that a fair version of these laws would do good. They will see us as thieves, looking to use a loophole to rationalize our theft.

    29. Re:Achilles Heel by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      Cooperatives don't really scale well.

      Really? There are at least a handful of large, well run coops out there. Ocean Spray cranberries is the one that comes immediately to mind since they are local to where I grew up. $1.4 billion in sales might not equal Google's revenue, but it does show that large cooperatives can thrive.

    30. Re:Achilles Heel by sohmc · · Score: 1

      I seem to remember there was some slashdot story with just this premise. I can't seem to find it though...

      I think this would a be a great "internet alternative" but nowhere near robust as the current internet. We would need to find a way where the average user (e.g. some dumb fool) to connect to it and get the information they want.

      However, I don't see legit businesses (e.g. banks, stores, etc) using this.

      --
      We don't live in Shouldland.
    31. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While there are greedy scumbags who would sell their mother if they could make a nickel on the deal in positions of power, there will be stupid laws.

      The focus should be on the lawmakers, not the laws

      There. FTFY.

    32. Re:Achilles Heel by crutchy · · Score: 1

      open wifi + new p2p internet protocol with no dependence on any existing internet infrastructure or dns (no encryption required)

      much more difficult to control if there's no obvious target

      all it would take is an app for android and iphone that turns the phone into a wifi repeater, as well as a browser that uses a new protocol (developed by whoever makes the app first, but i would suggest simpler than the existing tiered tcp)

      gateways to the internet could be through translator software (also from any terminal), and content would be immediately distributed when downloaded

      to prevent bandwidth bottlenecks, the system could start off text only like the original interweb

    33. Re:Achilles Heel by AngryDeuce · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I like that people get paid to be creative and provide me with entertainment.

      The problem is the 20 industry goons standing in between you and the content creator taking their cut.

      As for the lawmakers, they're not really convinced of the shit they say as regards copyright and IP laws. For the most part they're just reading off of a script that comes with a 6 figure check stapled to it. It wasn't until massive opposition by their constituents and the threat of repercussion that they started backing away from it, and that was political self-preservation, not any belief that the people were right. How many legislators have even come out and said "The people don't want this, and they are justified"? No, it's all "We must reexamine this bill" or "We must craft it in a way that protects copyright blah blah", never "Yeah, you're right, on closer inspection the bill was a fucking joke." They're stuck between a rock and a hard place because on one hand you've got people like Chris Dodd saying "Don’t ask me to write a check for you when you think your job is at risk and then don’t pay any attention to me when my job is at stake" while their constituents are threatening to kick their ass out of office in the next election cycle if they jump on board with SOPA/PIPA.

      Hell, Steve King (R-Iowa) was sitting in a SOPA hearing and tweets "We are debating the Stop Online Piracy Act and Shiela Jackson has so bored me that I'm killing time by surfing the Internet." What did he find boring? From her remarks:

      But there are sufficient loopholes here that would allow innocent sites to be shut down, thereby a loss of jobs. Have we answered the question dealing with national security? And as well are we recognizing the value of the First Amendment?"

      Those are the remarks he was so "bored" by. Given that, how the hell can we reasonably expect that these people have even thought about the shit they are doing? The few people actually doing real thinking in the comedy of errors we call congress get routinely ignored and dismissed. They've already decided how they're going to vote before the bill even gets entered. They've been paid to vote a certain way by the same fucking people writing these damn bills. They don't even want expert testimony, they didn't even want to allow anyone in the way of an expert to speak in opposition at the damn hearing. Google gave great testimony as to the problems with SOPA and were themselves dismissed, just as any opposing lawmaker was. I can't find the link to the exact quote, but one of them (I think it was Mike Leahy (D-Vermont) said something along the lines of "I don't see how this will break DNS and I don't believe any expert that says it will". This is what they're being paid for by the pro-SOPA groups, after all.

      The only other thing I can think of, that maybe they have thought about it and are just too fucking stupid to see the problems with what they were proposing horrifies me even more.

      All in all, I think convincing lawmakers is a fools errand. There are some people trying to pool money to lobby against the media cartels, but fighting bribery with bribery doesn't seem prudent to me. Better to just make their stupid laws as ineffectual as possible. Eventually they're going to get to the point where we really are living in an honest to god Orwellian Police State and the people are just going to overthrow the government entirely. I'm not entirely convinced that we could even prevent it at this point.

    34. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ah the false notion that IP requires any kind of protection to be profitable. The times before IP laws when no one was able to turn a profit from their ideas really must have been rough.

    35. Re:Achilles Heel by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

      no just use a random number generator to generate keys for communication between two partys storage is small now a couple gigs on a micro sd card. an micro sd card can be very easily hidden/broken and quickly wiped and overwritten

      --
      ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
    36. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Possession is easier to prove and thus enforce against than the act of distribution.

    37. Re:Achilles Heel by Ihmhi · · Score: 3, Funny

      Prison populations will overflow as thousands of criminals turn themselves in.

    38. Re:Achilles Heel by lgw · · Score: 1

      The biggest problem with TOR is: how do you know you're really anonymous? How do you know where DNS really pointed you when you downloaded that exe from torproject.org? How do you know what 0-days you've hit while browsing that pwnnd your browser, even without js or flash? (And there have been TOR vulnerabilities.) How do you know what you're *really* running?

      There doesn't seem to be any way to rely on a technological meansure to protect you from a corrupt government - too much firepower stacked against you.

      Just more reason for laws to be the focus.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    39. Re:Achilles Heel by priceslasher · · Score: 1
      I think entertainment producers will one day be paid in advance for proposed entertainment in a kickstarter fashion. They will leverage whatever following they have based on their past performances. The more popular, although not necessarily best, themes will be capable of demanding the most.

      In some ways I wish the 'artificial scarcity' rights holders would win and no one unauthorized could see their content or use their software, I already don't. I could care less about the movies and music being produced in recent years, but then again I play music and have an imagination for those other times.. when that isn't enough, I try to learn new things to help fuel my imagination. I can't even understand how someone would waste the time it takes to find this content illegaly, risk getting their computers infected with hacked software, sorting through entertainment that might be fuzzy or have bad sound... or even taking the legal risk of being harassed by the rights holders. I've already quit playing most games or certain OSes due to the hassle of legitimate ownership and I have a personal belief that they only use these overly restrictive methods of requiring you to enter cd keys and switch cds in and out for 'authorization', requiring internet access, regristration, etc. would occur no matter what because of the psychological implications that these cloak and dagger procedures cause your perception of the value of their product to escalate. Good riddance to all of their manipulative bullshit if they can't make money anymore.

    40. Re:Achilles Heel by chromas · · Score: 1

      most people won't want to use their bandwidth to act as a router for anonymous traffic

      or worse, be an exit node for anonymous traffic.

    41. Re:Achilles Heel by soundguy · · Score: 1

      You know what? The situation is far from perfect but I can live with it, considering that for the vast majority of human history, the two sides of that coin were "government" and "religion".

      --
      Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon
    42. Re:Achilles Heel by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Third, under SOPA it's not illegal to access the sites, just for DNS to return their IP and for Google (and who?) to list them in search results.

      Check the fine print in SOPA - it's not even illegal for Googel to list them in search results. It's just illegal (given the requisite court orders) to provide CLICKABLE LINKS to them.

      Putting the URL in out as plaintext would be perfectly fine....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    43. Re:Achilles Heel by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      It is :-/

      The fashion industry has no copyright yet still manages to make a profit.

      http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture.html

    44. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I can relate with your sentiment, it should be clear by now that private interests have acquired the scope of influence of governments should have, and that their manipulation of this circumstance is as bad as an unelected government. At least with democratic government, there is the option for voters to replace them with people who will serve the public. You don't get that with Big Private Control; it's more like a monarchy, in this respect.
      "Too big to succeed" rings like an apt societal context.

    45. Re:Achilles Heel by trevelyon · · Score: 1
      Whereas I agree the GP was overly broad in his characterization that all geeks are anti IP law I strongly suspect most are. Additionally, you make your own stated claims that while they are your opinion are stated in a factual manner. In particular:

      Should IP be protected? Absolutely. I like that people get paid to be creative and provide me with entertainment. If we don't protect it and pay the people who created it (and yes, when necessary, distributed it), then we'll not have it anymore. To do that, the laws have to, and had to, change. And those laws must be enforced.

      This claim has been proven false historically. There was no copyright for many years after the printing press yet published works boomed after the invention. The process of making prints of great paintings has not destroyed the industry in original works nor was music stunted before there was copyright to protect it. You must remember for the bulk of our history there was no copyright or patents. Both have been traditionally used by monarchs, governments, religion and now corporations as a means to control and monetize other's work. Before the printing press the church as the main source of scribes used to control and censor works extensively, already today we see governments, politicians and media using copyright in the exact same manner to quell dissenting viewpoints.

      Piracy is out of hand today. As 'geeks', we've provided the public with the ability to break IP protection laws with impunity. It's not acceptable to the creators of such content, and it is not sustainable.

      I would suggest that the concept of IP is out of control today. We can see the clear results of the laws as enforced today (stunted productivity, increased waste from legal wrangling, censorship and stifling of free speech, extreme corruption of political systems). Maybe we should just get rid of all IP law for 10 years and see what happens for a few years. Worse case you are correct and we bring them back. I somehow believe true artists will still create and maybe just maybe they will keep a larger share of their revenue.

      Much like the printing press the internet changes the landscape. Maybe the biggest artists won't make millions as they do today but then again who said they have a right to do that? If they find a way to monetize their work fantastic but I don't see it as the legal responsibility of the government or the people to go out and make it so they can do this. Musicians may find that they will have to make more of their revenue from concerts and performances rather than CD sales OR they might find that people will buy music from them or donate and without a middle man they get to keep a much larger share. In the future people may find the idea of the MPAA and RIAA and possibly copyright and "IP" itself as ridiculous as most of us find the concept of the church deciding what books will be produced and distributed.

      IMO it basically comes down to the question of which you value more high production cost hollywood movies or free speech. It's kind of sad but I suspect that for many people today it just might be the movies.

    46. Re:Achilles Heel by chromas · · Score: 1

      It's not the ones and zeros but the data they represent—they're just an encoding. There are lots of codecs, each with its own set of variables, so that even one photo will have an indefinite number of different possible 1/0 strings which can represent it. We have copyright to help the 'author' recover the cost of time and effort to arrange the bits/photons/molecules into something that interests us, not just to get a particular representative bit string into your hands.

      It's like paying for a performance, except it happened before you heard it. But if you did go to a show, it would cost the performers nothing to distribute those photons/sound waves to your head, yet you'd still have to pay some fixed price, not the cost to create the show divided by the number of attendees.

      Music, movies and games should cost as much as the creators can get away with, which means finding the balance between giving it away for free and everyone taking it for free and accepting the fact that the population subset who won't 'play by the rules' will never go away but can be minimized by picking the 'right' price.

    47. Re:Achilles Heel by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      TOR has some definite vulnerabilities when used for BitTorrents:

      https://blog.torproject.org/blog/bittorrent-over-tor-isnt-good-idea

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    48. Re:Achilles Heel by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      "religion" is really just another business. Consumerism, a result of industrialization, is a slightly more secular version of religion. But all economics is faith based, worshiping a different god. We all seem able to live with it as long it's not our fingernails being pulled off.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    49. Re:Achilles Heel by idlehanz · · Score: 1

      Wasn't the point of the post that while the government could "require" decryption of data on request, you need to know who "who" is before you can make the request. Sure it might be discovered eventually, but the value of the chase would have to justify the cost of engaging in the chase in the first place (yes, governments would not necessarily use logic in deciding that a chase must be undertaken). Still, I think the point is that if enough people circumvented the controls the controls would become pointless. I think the analogy is trying to track down and shut down file sharing sites. They spring up as fast as they can be taken down.

      --
      Changing the world... one research project at a time.
    50. Re:Achilles Heel by Canonical+Coward · · Score: 1

      It is :-/

      The fashion industry has no copyright yet still manages to make a profit.

      http://www.ted.com/talks/johanna_blakley_lessons_from_fashion_s_free_culture.html

      Because the fashion industry uses trademarks. People selling copies of Gucci bags aren't prosecuted for selling copies, they are prosecuted for selling copies that claim to be from Gucci.

    51. Re:Achilles Heel by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      data as courts see it (because they are slow and unwieldy buckets of inertia) exists on your hard disk.

      if encrypted traffic is the standard, the norm, the accepted and taken for granted way things "just are", then you could run tor and nobody would have any idea.

      the problem with the current internet is that it's run for so long without encryption. as technology marches on, hopefully encryption will be on by default.

      governments want security as well as control. perhaps we can tip the balance one way rather than the other.

    52. Re:Achilles Heel by Canonical+Coward · · Score: 1

      I think entertainment producers will one day be paid in advance for proposed entertainment in a kickstarter fashion. They will leverage whatever following they have based on their past performances. The more popular, although not necessarily best, themes will be capable of demanding the most.

      From whom? Where does the money come to pay someone in advance if the product they are making is handed out for free? Do you want your music to follow the current smartphone app model, where you get ads inserted into the music at random points?

    53. Re:Achilles Heel by iceaxe · · Score: 1

      I understand and to some degree agree with your point. However, the primary concern leading various entities to try to restrict the use of the internet is with people distributing copies, whether for free or for money, not with people making copies. If you make a copy and keep it to yourself, the internet is probably not involved.

      I do know that some IP "owners" have a desire to keep you from even making copies for yourself, but that's another issue altogether, and one on which my opinions are less conflicted.

      --
      WALSTIB!
    54. Re:Achilles Heel by SuperTechnoNerd · · Score: 1

      If a more utopian society can someday come to fruition, the internet will (can) be it's birthplace...

    55. Re:Achilles Heel by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      stamp a logo on a piece of fashion, or make the logo fashionable, and BOOM!, you're in the pockets of the local legislators.

      look at louis vuitton et al. thanks to them there's big scary posters all over the airports in europe, and they're more concerned with searching you for faked brands than drugs, biosecurity risks or weapons. shit, they probably only ask you to take your boots off so they can check that they're legit.

      the big fashion companies make their cash off trademarks, certainly not the (usually very ugly) cuts of their clothing.

    56. Re:Achilles Heel by SuperTechnoNerd · · Score: 2

      "Piracy is out of hand today."
      This is exactly the FUD they WANT you to believe..

    57. Re:Achilles Heel by mug+funky · · Score: 1

      i doff my hat to you, sir.

    58. Re:Achilles Heel by ediron2 · · Score: 1

      Patrick Leahy, not Mike.

    59. Re:Achilles Heel by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      It worked for Louis CK

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    60. Re:Achilles Heel by Canonical+Coward · · Score: 1
      Louis CK is SELLING his product, not handing it out for free.

      He's also not banking any of the money to produce another show, so he's going to have to rely on someone else planning to make money off his next show, which they would not have made any this time if he was handing it out for free. So he won't hand it out for free next time, either.

      I'll also point out that his opinion of how much money is "enough" applies only to himself, and it wouldn't be enough if he wasn't planning on having others pay to take a chance on his next show. Backing which he hasn't tried lining up, much less actually done so, so we don't know if anyone is going to back his next show without some guarantee of getting paid back.

      I.e., we don't know if it worked for Louis CK because he hasn't gone a full cycle yet. And even if he does, one person being successful at something isn't proof the idea is good. I mean, Bernie Madoff was pretty successful at what he did, until he got caught.

    61. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not sure why using basic economics (scarcity in supply and demand) is stupid. fair laws around ip would realize that near unlimited supply should drive prices into the ground, perhaps not instantly, but, at the very least, after SOME point. maybe if we really hemmed in copyright to something reasonable, like 10-20 years, you could convince some people to think otherwise. i'd like to see some really cool ideas, like if i have a cable subscription, i should be allowed a copy of any show i have the ability to watch. you know, they used to get paid once for the first broadcast, then came syndication, then tv on vhs(rare) and dvd, then internet streaming. it seems very anti-consumer that they want to dip and dip and dip into our wallets, but when we do it: its piracy. then there's the subscriber-capture paradox. if i can personally capture anything i am subscribed to, then anything that will eventually air, becomes legit when it does. add a crowd-source to this capturing and any and all subscribers should be left alone to share what they all could have done individually. quality of recording and ease of replication shouldn't ever factor into anything. fuck, if i could just use my dvr's firewire port and dump the stuff like it was intended, i'd never have to download tv shows again. The same principles apply to radio and music. you want middle ground, let me do what i used to be allowed to do, stop triple-dipping content, and put stuff into the public domain in a reasonable amount of time (10-20 years will suffice). but noooo. even if there wasn't any piracy, they'd still have locked down systems, still be triple-dipping, etc. fuck, look at how they're trying to kill the secondary market. do you think, that once piracy and the used goods market are gone, that we'll get any sort of discount on our purchase of the same media we've purchased 10 times before? if anything, it'll be more expensive. just wait until you have to pay for every viewing/listening. it is coming. for reals. for the record, i do purchase quite a bit. i just want my 1980s abilities in a 2010s digital playground, and that's not asking for too much.

    62. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      like they won't stop at personal copying. after piracy and the used markets are gone, they will come after fair use. in fact, they've already started to. since tv on dvd blew up big time (vhs series weren't all that common) they found another revenue stream, so they closed that up as much as they could. dvrs have firewire ports but can't be used to dump the recordings, like they were intended to. i'm sorry, but my ability to do what i could in the past trumps any and all content protection. quality and ease of reproduction be damned.

    63. Re:Achilles Heel by alexo · · Score: 1

      Should IP be protected? Absolutely.

      Absolutely not!

      I like that people get paid to be creative and provide me with entertainment.

      And I would like the opportunity to stand on the shoulders of giants. So much in fact, that I won't even complain if later a crowd gathers to stand on my own.

    64. Re:Achilles Heel by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      While I can relate with your sentiment, it should be clear by now that private interests have acquired the scope of influence of governments should have,

      Not to me, it isn't. I get what I want from Verizon - they don't hesitate as long as I'm willing to pay the rates. They certainly don't suggest that there are protocols or destinations that they may block from access. They DO comply with government requests for information (what they have), and regulations and crap that the Washington tyrants impose. I can't blame them for that - they're not going guard my local loop against armed bureaucrats.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    65. Re:Achilles Heel by alexo · · Score: 1

      The courts can't force you to do something you can't do.

      No, but they can imprison you indefinitely for failing to do the impossible.

    66. Re:Achilles Heel by alexo · · Score: 1

      I still don't understand like someone else here said deep in this thread, how copying ones and zeros is a crime.

      Anything that your masters decide to outlaw is a crime; including, should the fancy strike them, thinking about white elephants or hearing the word "galoshes".

      Feudalism never went away, it just got better at disguising itself.

      HTH.

    67. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to me, it isn't. I get what I want from Verizon - they don't hesitate as long as I'm willing to pay the rates. They certainly don't suggest that there are protocols or destinations that they may block from access. They DO comply with government requests for information (what they have), and regulations and crap that the Washington tyrants impose.

      You're kidding yourself if you think they won't play ball with any corporation/group that comes along and pays them to shit on you. And, you'll have no recourse, Consumer.

      I can't blame them for that - they're not going guard my local loop against armed bureaucrats.

      Armed bureaucrats? Yeah, those damned armed bureaucrats, marching around, sticking guns in CEO's faces, telling them what to do. There are just too many of those armed bureaucrats in western democracies these days. Your make-believe context is ridiculous.

    68. Re:Achilles Heel by GumphMaster · · Score: 1

      Call me when your wi-fi mesh can span the Pacific :)

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
    69. Re:Achilles Heel by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      I think you're a little brainwashed by the MSM and the POTUS rhetoric. Yes, there is far too much collaboration among the CEO / Washington Administrator club (same guys, moving back and forth), but don't forget that only the government has the monopoly on force. And, yep, there are armed bureaucrats all over the place.

      I'm not really worried about corporate power until they have government backing.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    70. Re:Achilles Heel by russotto · · Score: 1

      Well said. Unfortunately, the lot who are busy beating the broken drum of scarcity are making it difficult for the rest of us who are honestly interested in fair laws around IP.

      The worthless fucks who have written the laws we have now and the laws planned for the future, the laws intended to censor the internet to protect their cash flow, the laws which would put a programmer in jail for years for writing code which works around their mean-spirited and broken systems -- those are the people that make it difficult for anyone interested in fair laws around IP.

      Piracy is out of hand today. As 'geeks', we've provided the public with the ability to break IP protection laws with impunity. It's not acceptable to the creators of such content, and it is not sustainable.

      Fine. Then one of us has to go: them, or us and all we've wrought. I know where I stand on that one.

    71. Re:Achilles Heel by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 1

      the problem is the general populace doesn't give a shit

      This is a fundamental problem with democracies. They don't work well if the electorate is ignorant. Analogously, this is what's wrong with capitalism. Ignorant consumers.

      Not every nation's voting population tends towards myopic decadence, though. I'm guessing it's a precarious equilibrium, having a democracy of smart voters. I'm not sure if the United States had it previously and it's just gotten worse, or if we never had it. The government certainly seems to have gotten gradually worse (regardless of whichever party's been in power).

      Keep it in mind, folks: How well your life goes depends on the competence of everyone around you. We're in this together. The mindset of "it's fine if most everyone else is stupid, it's great even — that just means I can get much more in fleecing people" is actually self-defeatingly shortsighted.

    72. Re:Achilles Heel by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Well said.

      But then it seems like you go on to act as if your opinions are actually facts (that copyright should exist and must be protected).

      As 'geeks', we've provided the public with the ability to break IP protection laws with impunity.

      Really? A lot of the technology has multiple uses. I doubt much of it is specifically designed to allow people to more easily infringe upon another's copyright without getting caught.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    73. Re:Achilles Heel by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Where does the money come to pay someone in advance if the product they are making is handed out for free?

      Since he mentioned kickstarter, I believe he means from people who like the idea and wish to see someone actually create something.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    74. Re:Achilles Heel by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

      If you're using TOR, you should have the intelligence to run several of the independent privacy tests out there. If you don't have the wherewithal to secure your connection, get out of the water and do some learning until you can swim.

      I test my TOR anonymity on a roughly weekly basis, on three different sites. There are other ways to further anonymize your connection. Do some research before jumping off the deep end, don't do anything painfully stupid, and you'll be fine.

      Keep in mind, too, that governments have limited resources and are just as liable as you or I to go after the low-hanging fruit instead of chasing after a near-impossible target. For every person who has safely anonymized their connection, there are plenty who are doing stupid things through Internet Explorer on an unobfuscated connection. Guess who law enforcement are going to go after?

      --
      The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
    75. Re:Achilles Heel by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I did think of that, but didn't mention it because I see no solution to the problam, but I'll bet someone else will. Maybe piggybacking moduated signals* on ham radio signals? OK, now I'm sure someone will solve it with a much better idea.

      * I mean like they did in the '70s with quadrophonic LPs, where they modulated the rear channels with a 40kHz wave and mixed them with the front signals. The digital data could be made to appear as noise if you piggybacked digital data with, say, morse code.

    76. Re:Achilles Heel by pantaril · · Score: 1

      Should IP be protected? Absolutely. I like that people get paid to be creative and provide me with entertainment. If we don't protect it and pay the people who created it (and yes, when necessary, distributed it), then we'll not have it anymore.

      Protecting IP and paying authors are two diferrent thinks. I believe that the best system would NOT protect IP (so you can share it freely) but would provide payments to authors via some other means (how to do it correctly would be a matter of further public discussion but i believe it is possible to do it. For example basic science is very creative process, part of it is funded by goverment and the results are public domain and freely sharable. Why could something similar not work for other IP?)

      Also, if you insist that IP should be absolutely protected, how would we do it? Do you support PIPA/SOPA/ACTA? (I believe that it is imposible to effectively control flows of public information without giving up fundamental freedoms and rights to secure comunication and generaly creating some orwellian totalitarian regime)

    77. Re:Achilles Heel by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      That's the point - it would be a NEW internet. OUR internet.

    78. Re:Achilles Heel by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Do you have any good references?

      Sorry, no, just a few poorly thought out ideas I'd like to see someone with more expertise than me run with.

    79. Re:Achilles Heel by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      However, I don't see legit businesses (e.g. banks, stores, etc) using this.

      To my mind, that's a plus.

    80. Re:Achilles Heel by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 1

      I support the spirit, if not the execution. I agree that what is proposed in that legislation is deeply flawed, but the intent, to protect IP from theft is a good one.

    81. Re:Achilles Heel by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 1

      I think that's great, and if someone were to propose a system that would allow for it, I'd support it, but so far we've not seen anything that would work. To tell the folks who are currently getting robbed blind (by this I mean the creators, not the distributors), that they'll simply have to wait it out seems unfair.

      I do not support PIPA/SOPA/ACTA as written because of the infringements to fair use and how wide the boundaries are around what qualifies as sufficient grounds to take action against a site. I do however support the rights of authors (and for now, distributors) to have immediate legal recourse against those who steal their property or who provide others with a means to do so.

      How should IP be protected? I would start by revamping the copyright laws to something more sensible. (In what is protected, how fair use is applied and how long it is protected for.) Then proposed solutions to protect content may not seem quite so draconian. Not sure I'll see that in my lifetime though...

    82. Re:Achilles Heel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any alternative internet technology relies on encryption, and as long as courts have to ability to require you to decrypt data upon request, any discussion of workarounds is pointless.

      To really address the real problem, the laws themselves must be the focus.

      I agree with you, the laws and the people in authority need to be the focus.

    83. Re:Achilles Heel by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 1

      And yet, here we are in a democracy.

      I understand your frustration with the system, but this is what we've got to work with. You either make it work for you, or you lose summarily. The idiot lawmakers will pass something. Our best bet is to keep the dialog open by having an honest discussion with them. My point is that using an obviously flawed (and one sided) defense like the scarcity approach isn't the way to do it. It's transparent and deliberately obtuse.

    84. Re:Achilles Heel by lgw · · Score: 1

      The privacy test sites won't find a deliberately-inserted exploit, merely find common config errors (which is useful to check for, of course). Right now, I agree: TOR isn't the low hanging fruit for the government (exploits from the MPAA wouldn't surprise me, but TOR+torrent has enough problems that they probaly don't need to). But if we move to a world where TOR is normal because of SOPA-stype jackbootery, that will change.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    85. Re:Achilles Heel by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

      True enough. I'm not disagreeing that things need to change; far from it.

      That being said... even if they're not perfect I'll take advantage of every anonymizing technology I can, because "the problem with TOR" is nothing compared to, for example, the problem with Internet Explorer.

      We can certainly say all day that nothing is perfectly safe from the Feds if they really want you, but crying wolf is not constructive and serves little purpose.

      --
      The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
    86. Re:Achilles Heel by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 1

      Not sure if you are serious.

      In under 2 minutes I can start downloading any movie, tv show or music recording ever created.

      That's out of hand.

    87. Re:Achilles Heel by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 1

      But then it seems like you go on to act as if your opinions are actually facts (that copyright should exist and must be protected).

      I said nothing of the kind. I said intellectual property should be protected. I don't think copyright in its current form is reasonable and would like to see reform, but I stand fast by my opinion that IP must be protected if we expect to continue to see creative works.

      Really? A lot of the technology has multiple uses. I doubt much of it is specifically designed to allow people to more easily infringe upon another's copyright without getting caught.

      Bittorrent software is designed to allow people to download pirate movies and music. Yes, a very small group of IT folks use it for sharing open source, but the average user doesn't. (I'm surprised you even tried this approach...)

    88. Re:Achilles Heel by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 1

      Because they don't apply here.

      Scarcity laws were designed to work with physical items. Non-physical items that have value cannot be measured in this way.

      (BTW, I'm not saying that what these companies do is fair -- I'm just saying that applying scarcity laws to something without a physical presence is idiotic.)

    89. Re:Achilles Heel by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 1

      That's a whole different kettle of fish. If you want to argue that 'random song selection' on an mp3 player should not warrant protection under IP, that's a different discussion altogether. What we're talking about here is theft of IP for personal use.

    90. Re:Achilles Heel by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 1

      We may have evolved past the point where the shareware concept is enough for the average programming company to keep the lights on. :)

    91. Re:Achilles Heel by lgw · · Score: 1

      Well, that's a good point - it does suck less than IE, and that matters here and now. But I just fear that TOR will end badly, in China or in what the US might become, with thousands hauled off to prison or worse.

      I do wish more people knew about Freenet, but realistically TOR is a decent bridge to an anonymized world, while Freenet has no content because it has no users and vice-versa. (And isn't perfect either, of course, but is much stronger than TOR.)

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    92. Re:Achilles Heel by alexo · · Score: 1

      What we're talking about here is theft of IP for personal use.

      And my reply to that is:
      1. Nothing "Intellectual" can be "Property"
      2. Therefore, it cannot be "stolen", for personal use or otherwise
      3. And (forgive me for repeating myself) it does not warrant any protection

    93. Re:Achilles Heel by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

      Well, it all starts with people getting the right idea. The more that we, the "early adopters" can spread the idea of safe, anonymous browsing and (if you'll pardon my poor sense of humour here) alter-net options, the better things get... and unfortunately we have to walk a fine line between scaring people enough that they're careful, but not so much that they're scared away.

      --
      The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
    94. Re:Achilles Heel by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      I said intellectual property should be protected.

      Yes, "should." According to who? You stated that as a fact.

      but I stand fast by my opinion that IP must be protected if we expect to continue to see creative works.

      Creative works would likely always be made. Perhaps less of them (even a lot less), but they would still likely exist.

      Bittorrent software is designed to allow people to download pirate movies and music.

      It can be used to share anything. I know of few technologies whose sole purpose is to allow you to infringe upon copyright.

      Can you prove that that's what it was designed for? Not that I think it matters. It can be used for other things, and just because some people 'abuse' it doesn't, to me, indicate that the technology is bad or should be banned.

      but the average user doesn't.

      Can you prove this, too?

      (I'm surprised you even tried this approach...)

      Why?

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    95. Re:Achilles Heel by Phernost · · Score: 1

      Just like guns were designed to only kill innocent people. Therefore we should get rid of all guns. I love flawed logic, let's me say crazy stupid shit.

    96. Re:Achilles Heel by SuperTechnoNerd · · Score: 1

      AH HAAAA! SO ITS YOU!
      The cat's out of the bag brother!

    97. Re:Achilles Heel by SuperTechnoNerd · · Score: 1

      When thees companies no longer make billions of $$ each year, no longer have legit sales, and go bankrupt because of piracy.
      Then I'll believe you..
      Of course they always blame their failing business model on piracy.. Bahh Humbug..

    98. Re:Achilles Heel by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > Bittorrent software is designed to allow people to download pirate movies and music. Yes, a very small group of IT folks use it for sharing open source, but the average user doesn't. (I'm surprised you even tried this approach...)

      Blizzard's World of Warcraft (WOW) has ~ 12 millions subscribers.

      Guess what the underlying system they use for updates / patches?

      BitTorrent.
      See: http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/03/29/027209/isps-war-on-bittorrent-hits-world-of-warcraft

      It's not about the protocols. It's about the right to share bits which represent an implementation of ideas.

      The basis of any advanced civilization is _founded_ upon sharing. That is, when an artists produces something that other people find to be of value (NOT necessarily monetary ) after a set amount of time, it becomes part of culture for everyone to enjoy, to use, to parody, to build off. Greedy artists would love to have perpetual copyright so that they can earn money ANYTIME someone wants to "access" it. The public wants there to be NO copyright so that anyone can freely access it. American Copyright was a compromise between the two sets of extremes: Greed vs Freedom.

      > but I stand fast by my opinion that IP must be protected if we expect to continue to see creative works.
      So what did civilization do for the 5,000+ years before the Imaginary Pseudo-Property became law??
       

  3. it's not about connectivity, it's about accessibil by mapkinase · · Score: 5, Interesting

    it's not about connectivity, it's about accessibility: presence in the search results, being properly indexed.

    There could be million free pages under any super-free Internet. What's the point of it if nothing could be found?

    Main battle is going to be around google search results and there have been several front pages on that: content providers are already fighting with google.

    If a movie is getting NC-17 rating, forget about profit (in this case most rightfully so, that's Islam speaking).

    If a website is accessible only via Tor, forget about business.

    Imagine isntead of banning megaupload website were still accessible through Tor or some other kind of superfreeandsecretnet. Do you really think Dotcom would be leaving in 22M mansion?

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  4. Tool Number One by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Re:Tool Number One by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Give me RFCs or give me death, I say!

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  5. Why cross-platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Are people so dumb now they can't pick from three or four installers the one appropriate to their system?!

    If they are so dumb, doesn't this give us a chance to turn the clock back to August of '93 by leaving them behind?

    (Tongue-in-cheek, of course, my love of freedom exceeds my loathing of noobs who refuse to educate themselves, and the more people using such a tool, the less feasible prosecuting everyone caught becomes.)

    1. Re:Why cross-platform? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are people so dumb now they can't pick from three or four installers the one appropriate to their system?!

      No; it's just that you've made the same ignorant mistake that many folks here on /. seem to: assuming that the majority of internet users are technically educated.

      FYI, it's not 1993 anymore; thanks to commercialization and social networking, everyone from your mailman to your granny are accessing the internet these days. Many internet users are specialized in non technical fields, such as nursing or architecture. Your statement is akin to a doctor saying, "If you're too dumb to perform gastrointestinal surgery on yourself, why should I bother doing it for you?"

      Yes, there are many, many people online these days who have little to no idea how the internet works, outside the knowledge that typing "www.google.com" will take them to Google's search page. Maybe if you tried educating the noobs, instead of responding to their ignorance with your own, you wouldn't find them so loathsome.

      Just my 2 pennies.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    2. Re:Why cross-platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's fine if they don't understand the technical details of how computers and the internet work.

      However, before using a computer (or before doing anything drastic, such as downloading random exe files and running them), they should at least learn how to use one. Far too many people fall into obvious traps (which is something that could have been avoided if they would have properly educated themselves). To give an analogy, it's like driving a car on the road with no supervision even though you have no idea how to drive a car.

    3. Re:Why cross-platform? by GillyGuthrie · · Score: 1

      Gastrointestinal surgery is a way too specific example in your metaphor. Anybody who can figure out how to download, install, and use a P2P client like bittorrent will already know what OS they're running (and henceforth which installer to use).

    4. Re:Why cross-platform? by vux984 · · Score: 2

      To give an analogy, it's like driving a car on the road with no supervision even though you have no idea how to drive a car.

      So we should have a government run licensing program, whereby you must have a government issues license before connecting to the internet? That's going to improve things how?

    5. Re:Why cross-platform? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      To give an analogy, it's like driving a car on the road with no supervision even though you have no idea how to drive a car.

      Except the fact that it's nigh impossible for the untrained to kill other people with a computer. So, less an analogy and more a non sequitur.

      I do agree with your point regarding user education, poor analogy aside.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    6. Re:Why cross-platform? by NIK282000 · · Score: 1

      As much as the idea of internet use requiring a minimum level of aptitude sounds like a good idea it hasn't really worked for cars or guns. I can't imagine it would work any better for the internet.

      --
      Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
    7. Re:Why cross-platform? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Gastrointestinal surgery is a way too specific example in your metaphor.

      S'not a metaphor.

      Anybody who can figure out how to download, install, and use a P2P client like bittorrent will already know what OS they're running (and henceforth which installer to use).

      S'not my point. My point was that folks like OP are not omniscient, and thus should hop down off their pedestals and try educating others, instead of insulting them.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    8. Re:Why cross-platform? by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      To give an analogy, it's like driving a car on the road with no supervision even though you have no idea how to drive a car.

      So we should have a government run licensing program, whereby you must have a government issues license before connecting to the internet? That's going to improve things how?

      Fines for YouTube commenters would be a good start.

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    9. Re:Why cross-platform? by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      You would think so, but my years in freelance technical support have convinced me otherwise.

      Have I mentioned how much working freelance technical support has destroyed my empathy for my fellow human beings?

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    10. Re:Why cross-platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are people so dumb now they can't pick from three or four installers the one appropriate to their system?!

      No; it's just that you've made the same ignorant mistake that many folks here on /. seem to: assuming that the majority of internet users are technically educated.

      I'm talking about the assertion in TFS that it needs to be a fucking cross-platform binary. Yes, people aren't "technically educated" and "have little to no idea how the internet works". But is asking Windows users to pick jailbreak_the_internet_3.7.1_windows.exe over jailbreak_the_internet_3.7.1_linux.tgz, and similarly for OSX and Linux users, really so much? You don't have to know how the internet works, you just have to know that one of these names is on the fucking startup screen when you boot your PC, one is that douchebag guy picking on the PC in the TV commercials, and the other one you've not really heard of.

      90% of all users that might install such a TOR-ifier do that much routinely to download random shareware (and trojans) with a Mac version available; 90% of the people who can't handle it already have roped some barely-more-knowledgable relative into maintaining their system, and he/she will be the one installing it. I just don't see the problem.

      FYI, it's not 1993 anymore; thanks to commercialization and social networking, everyone from your mailman to your granny are accessing the internet these days.

      Yeah, I know everybody and their dog and you is on the internet, unlike '93. Perhaps that's why I made a joke about undoing the September That Never Ended. *facepalm*
      And I also knew some johnny-come-lately asshole (much like yourself) would take it seriously, as they are wont to, which is why I explained that it was "tongue-in-cheek" (in case you don't speak English idioms well, that means a joke) -- which was apparently a waste of my time, since you still took it as though I had meant it seriously.

    11. Re:Why cross-platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So wait, the summary implies people are incredibly dumb, I ask, skeptically, "Are people really that dumb?", and I'm insulting them?

    12. Re:Why cross-platform? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      ...my loathing of noobs who refuse to educate themselves.

      Would be the part I would consider less than flattering.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    13. Re:Why cross-platform? by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      For the record, I'm not the one making up stats, flipping out over the mere concept of a cross-platform installer, and blowing a coronary because of a comment someone made on the internet.

      I recommend meditation.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    14. Re:Why cross-platform? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...my loathing of noobs who refuse to educate themselves.

      Would be the part I would consider less than flattering.

      Some (not all) of them do -- they are:

      • a minority of noobs
      • worthy of loathing
      • STILL smarter/more capable than TFS gives them credit for

      To correct your simile, it's like a doctor saying to another doctor "I loathe patients who don't even seem to listen when I talk to them about the surgical and non-surgical treatment options for their GI condition, just 'whatever you say, doc'."

    15. Re:Why cross-platform? by cffrost · · Score: 1

      Your statement is akin to a doctor saying, "If you're too dumb to perform gastrointestinal surgery on yourself, why should I bother doing it for you?"

      "It's not that I'm too dumb, doc, I just haven't the belly for it."

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
  6. desired outcome by prgrmr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would go further and suggest that this is a desired outcome by both governments and content holders: to drive the subversives, the perceived anarchists, and in short, all of the non-mainstream consumer users of the Internet off of it into their own "underground". This keeps the nominal Internet "market" sanitized from both subversive content and disruptive behavior, as well as segregates the undesirables into their own sandbox where keeping an eye on them may not be easier, but lowers the degree of urgency for doing so.

    1. Re:desired outcome by spire3661 · · Score: 2

      Sort of a 'Cocteau Plan' for the internet.

      "AT&T was the only ISP to survive the Internet Big Media Wars. Now all ISPs are AT&T!"

      --
      Good-bye
    2. Re:desired outcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Latest news, after the fast food war, Taco bell becomes a ISP. Buys up AT&T.

    3. Re:desired outcome by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Latest news, after the fast food war, Taco bell becomes a ISP. Buys up AT&T.

      Only to be absorbed in a hostile takeover by the Brawndo Corporation.

      Brawndo - it's got what plant crave - It's got ELECTROLYTES!!!

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    4. Re:desired outcome by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      Latest news, after the fast food war, Taco bell becomes a ISP. Buys up AT&T.

      AT&T's customer service rankings improve.

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    5. Re:desired outcome by cr_nucleus · · Score: 1

      I would go further and suggest that this is a desired outcome by both governments and content holders: to drive the subversives, the perceived anarchists, and in short, all of the non-mainstream consumer users of the Internet off of it into their own "underground".

      By underground, you probably mean Zion, right ?

  7. Alternative by DaMattster · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can see this tightening of regulation creating an all new internet that is build amongst non-profit communities and connected together in fashions so that no one owns the transmission means. Unlike today's internet which is essentially owned by oligarchy consisting of AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon (i.e. Big Telecom) communities may end up either laying their own transmission lines or use multipoint wireless. This might just be the tipping point at which the pricing and collusion of Big Telecom leads to their ultimate demise and irrelevance.

    1. Re:Alternative by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      This could only happen after WWIII.

    2. Re:Alternative by sanosuke001 · · Score: 1

      ISP's should be forced to either A) sell their infrastructure business to the people or a single private entity (government, which sucks from a privacy standpoint) or B) split off to a separate corporate entity (privacy might be better but competition is difficult when there is limited physical ways to connect and multiple suppliers; one supplier seems a better option) so that their infrastructure cannot be leveraged as part of their services package and all companies are on fair footing when it comes to bandwidth pricing.

      There are pro's and con's to how the split-up is managed but I think either direction (public or private) the infrastructure ends up being in is preferable to the ISPs running it and their services.

      --
      -SaNo
    3. Re:Alternative by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      The supermutants will enjoy uncapped bandwidth! Deathclaws, on the other hand, are more into texting.

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
  8. Neologising the Wordnet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 4, Funny

    Oh god, it burns.

    ...but in all seriousness: okay, Mr. Venezia, you can jailbreak it. Just be careful you don't brick it. No one needs a bricked Internet. While you're at it, can you install a SIM unlock, too? I hear the service provider that the Internet comes with is terrible.

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    1. Re:Neologising the Wordnet by lennier · · Score: 2

      you can jailbreak it. Just be careful you don't brick it.

      I remember that game! Back before Space Invaders. Played like Pong.

      Now if someone could Spacewar the Internet, that'd be something...

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    2. Re:Neologising the Wordnet by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1
      --
      Deleted
    3. Re:Neologising the Wordnet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      The Elders of the Internet would never allow such a thing!

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    4. Re:Neologising the Wordnet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You gave an example of a "hostile reader" -- OP was using iPhone jailbreak as an ANALOGY, not a MODEL. An analogy compares two different concepts, one familiar, the other unfamiliar to the reader. The writer's intention is that the cooperative reader will see the similarities between the two concepts. Any analogy can be extended into absurdity if you focus on the dis-similarities, as you have done.

      But yeah, having a neat little package to circumvent the censorship roll-out we will be seeing in the immediate future would certainly be a boon to society.

    5. Re:Neologising the Wordnet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Jailbreaking is an extremely technical and precise word. Perhaps they didn't teach this in the English courses at your university, but the more specific an analogy is, the more distracting dissimilarities there are, and the less effective it is as a means of conveyance. To carry it to illustrative extremes, if I said it was time to phosphorylate the myosin light-chain kinases of revolution, you would be too distracted by the biological gobbledegook to recognise that I meant "contract the muscles of revolution," which itself is distracting and strange imagery.

      As a piece of writing, it was downright sloppy, because the majority of the people who know what the word means also associate it very tightly with its actual meaning, excepting of course that inevitable meniscus of 'hip' technical writers who write groaners like this. (And look, now you have to go look up what "meniscus" means, only to find that the word makes no sense in context and that I have wasted your time with distracting language when I could have just said "layer" or "coating.") A good analogy is built on loose, everyday concepts and experiences, not a complicated freedom of speech issue that gives RMS hives.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    6. Re:Neologising the Wordnet by psiclops · · Score: 1

      i understand bricking a prison must mean making the walls more secure to prevent future jailbreaks but what happens when you install a SIM unlock in one?

      --
      i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
    7. Re:Neologising the Wordnet by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Presumably it means that the prisoners are free to transfer to other cells and prisons if they can get accepted into them.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  9. So yeah... by Lundse · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...that is what Moglen et al have been saying all along: don't trust the lawmakers and people in power to make you free. Guarantee your freedoms one by one, by building them - free speech, anonymity, etc. can be engineered!

    --
    IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV
  10. Re:it's not about connectivity, it's about accessi by DocBoss · · Score: 5, Insightful

    People go where the content is. If The Pirate Bay were only accessible over the Tor network there would be tons more traffic there, thus more information on how to access it. If enough content were only accessible over Tor soon there would be extensions for web browsers that would make it as easy to get there as any other site.

    --
    "They said we drink horse urine and sleep with our own kin. You say it's comedy, but how can someone laugh at that?"
  11. The question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And who trusts Tor anyways?

    1. Re:The question by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      Overly trusting pedophiles? That's my best guess.

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
  12. Vidalia bundle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFA:

    and then picture a single installer that runs under Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux that installs tor, tools to leverage alternative DNS servers, anonymizing proxies, and even private VPN services.

    It ain't a picture. This software already exists, look for example vidalia ( https://www.torproject.org/projects/vidalia.html.en ). I'd say this bundle is unnecessary for most GNU/Linux users (we have package managers) but still handy if we need to quickly deploy anonymizing software in a public machine.

    1. Re:Vidalia bundle by hughbar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yes agree, tor + freenet + GPG etc. are the basis for something useful. However 'they' own the pipes and country to country gateways, for example. So the new, new thing will really be from the bottom up and may be quite retro to start with. I've been looking backwards at fidonet, packet radio and gopher, for example. Also been thinking about biomimetic systems where the keys, for example are transmitted on one medium and the 'doors' on another, via something that spectrum hops.

      This sounds very tinfoil hat stuff but I've been around servers since Prestel, Minitel in France, BBS systems with modems and the current outlook just seems pretty bad. That is intuition rather than science, but really doesn't feel good at all. Even if we 'keep' the internet, it becomes something worse than television.

      --
      On y va, qui mal y pense!
    2. Re:Vidalia bundle by Hatta · · Score: 1

      I'd say this bundle is unnecessary for most GNU/Linux users (we have package managers) but still handy if we need to quickly deploy anonymizing software in a public machine.

      It's better to use the bundle. Information is leaky, and you can easily forget to toggle some obscure configuration option and blow your cover. If anything, browser fingerprinting is an excellent reason to use the bundle. Everyone using the bundle should have the same fingerprint, so your identity is more obscure than if you used your daily work browser which is probably identifiable.

      Tor started off as a stand alone application. Then they started distributing the torbutton plugin, and deprecated the stand alone applicaion because it was too leaky. Now torbutton is deprecated because that was still too leaky. I expect this Videla bundle to be deprecated eventually, and they'll distribute VMs with browser, proxy, plugin and full disk encryption already enabled. That should be as leak free as possible.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  13. YES! by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Awesome, because nothing is more important than ensuring our supply of free entertainment continues.

    Oh, I'm sorry, I mean dissident thought. Yeah, totally. Not first-run movies and PS3 game images at all. This is about freedom.

    1. Re:YES! by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Use both. Pirates and dissidents may have different goals, but they need the same tools. What one deveops, the other can use.

    2. Re:YES! by Microlith · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In a free society, piracy can happen.

      In a society where no piracy can happen, it cannot possibly be free.

      I leave it up to you to figure out how to reconcile a free society with one where piracy cannot happen.

    3. Re:YES! by JWW · · Score: 1

      Exactly!!

      Free Speech >> IP Piracy Enforcement

    4. Re:YES! by brit74 · · Score: 1

      > In a society where no piracy can happen, it cannot possibly be free.

      I think companies are more concerned with whether or not rampant piracy can happen, not whether every single instance of piracy can be stopped.

    5. Re:YES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't particularly care about it one way or the other. I simply find it instructive that people only really seem to care about their "freedom" to be entertained on their own terms, and everything seems to just be talking points designed to conjure up "morality lessons" centered on largely unrelated bullshit.

      See also: how the only thing that really got people riled up in the last 12 years, I mean actually caught the attention of the public, was the possibility that lawmakers might make it fractionally harder to get a hold of their free movies and video games. See also: this story. Same fucking thing. It's sad that people like you are helping to swirl the water down the drain in the name of freedom.

      In other words, I leave it up to you to figure out how to build a society on the backs of freeloaders who can't be bothered to do anything but entertain themselves all day and bitch that the world isn't giving them everything they want because dammit, they were born, and that's quite enough work thankyouverymuch.

      It won't matter much to me, I'll be dead and I have no children. The world built on the backs of bullshit like this will certainly be an interesting one, that luckily will not be my problem.

    6. Re:YES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your argument depends on the definition of what piracy is, and what is freedom.

      Relative freedom != piracy - and that is the mistake all too many companies are willing to make in the name of making $$$.

      1) Copying something and sharing it with my immediate family member should not be piracy.
      2) Playing a song on my own MP3 player for my friend to hear in a public place is not piracy.
      3) Copying a song that I do not own, and putting it on the Internet for free download by 10,000,000 people is piracy.
      etc.

      It's not about how bad piracy is, the discussion needs to be about how fair use can be expanded!

    7. Re:YES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Okay, I shouldn't feed the trolls, but SOPA is not about piracy. It's a censorship bill. The uproar over SOPA was that it effectively allows censoring any site on the internet (due to the use of copyrighted materials being so prelevant) from normal access via a search engine while not actually effectively block any content (i.e. if your intention is to pirate something, SOPA is completely ineffective).

      The content industry maybe wants to make this sound like it's about piracy, but it's really about censorship. The content industry wants it to be as hard / expensive as possible to host content that is not made and sold by the current companies in power.

    8. Re:YES! by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

      First they came for the hackers, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't one.

      Then they came for the copyright offenders, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't one.

      Then they came for the protesters, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't one.

      Then, they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me.

      --
      The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
    9. Re:YES! by cffrost · · Score: 1

      > In a society where no piracy can happen, it cannot possibly be free.

      I think companies are more concerned with whether or not rampant piracy can happen, not whether every single instance of piracy can be stopped.

      I think authoritarians are more concerned with whether or not rampant freedom can be exercised, not whether every single instance of exercised freedom can be stopped.

      --
      Thank you, Edward Snowden.

      "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
  14. a nobel thought but,,, by phrostie · · Score: 1

    as Tor's own site will say, having the software is only one step. you have to change your habits.
    it also requires the entry and exit to be trusted.

    1. Re:a nobel thought but,,, by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 2

      it also requires the entry and exit to be trusted.

      No it doesn't. The whole point of TOR is that the only way to determine who is doing what is for the nodes to collude with one another (although there are traffic analysis attacks that ISPs can do if they can see all the traffic through all the nodes).

  15. private VPN services? by aglider · · Score: 1

    VPNs are private by definition.

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
    1. Re:private VPN services? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In transit. Not if the endpoints are compromised.

  16. FBI physically seizes servers... by t4ng* · · Score: 2

    Kind of difficult to connect to servers that are unplugged and sitting in a guarded evidence closet somewhere.

    1. Re:FBI physically seizes servers... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Tor hidden services are pretty hard to locate. Of course, a hidden service that operates on the scale of Megaupload will be pretty easy to locate...

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:FBI physically seizes servers... by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      Excellent point.

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    3. Re:FBI physically seizes servers... by psiclops · · Score: 1

      what if i use my wi-fis

      --
      i spent five minutes thinking and all i got was this crappy sig
  17. Pointless if there's no content by randizzle3000 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The other problem is that people might stop creating these great sites/services because you can't "just browse" to them or venture capitalists won't fund the startup. Anonymity and an underground internet is useless if all the cool stuff is just taken down (as opposed to blocked) or even worse, never created in the first place. For example, can we secretly get to megaupload now? What about it's competitors that have disabled file sharing?

    1. Re:Pointless if there's no content by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Wait, the internet is useless if you can't commercialize it? Baloney.

    2. Re:Pointless if there's no content by randizzle3000 · · Score: 1

      Haha no no I'm saying the internet is useless if you can only commercialize it. If some website can get shut down for stuff that their users put up (not the site operators...), who's going to make a site that users can upload anything? There was an infographic I saw last week that made the point succinctly: If someone shoplifts from or even just robs your store, then the government can shut down your store. Why would anyone want to open up a store anymore?

    3. Re:Pointless if there's no content by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Ahh, I misunderstood.

    4. Re:Pointless if there's no content by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      If someone shoplifts from or even just robs your store, then the government can shut down your store.

      I don't think that analogy is entirely accurate. It would be something more along the lines of if someone goes into your store and starts advertising goods that they have stolen from another store, and you don't do anything about it, then the government can shut down your store.

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    5. Re:Pointless if there's no content by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok yea that's better. So your store is a place where thousands/millions of people can come and advertise things, and a bunch of them (or even just one guy!) are advertising something that someone claims are stolen or bootleg copies of things, gov't shuts you down. Whether those things are stolen or bootleg or not, it doesn't matter. If that's the situation, who would want to open a store like that? You'll need to open stores that only you control, and the so called web2.0 is destroyed just like that.

  18. Must be nice. by John+Courtland · · Score: 1

    It must be nice to be so retardedly rich that you can be ignorant as hell like this fellow and not have to give a shit.

    --
    Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
  19. How about back to basics? PGP 101 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What the first step is to do is encrypt communications, then worry about the medium the bytes are flying over, be it E-mail, IM, FB messages, FB walls, tweets, or smoke signals. To do this, we need to go back to basics with a web of trust, and PGP (technically PGP or gpg, but will use PGP for clarity's sake.)

    Once people have a web of trust in place, where Alice can fetch Bob's PGP key from a keyserver, find that there are trust links from that key to people Alice knows who are not goobs, then she can send a message to Bob, and no matter how compromised the system is underneath, it will be secure.

    With RIPA where a judge can ask someone 20 times in a row for a key, and if said magistrate gets 30 "no"'s, can toss someone in pretty much for life, and the US courts demanding encryption keys, the next step is to use functionality put in PGP over 15 years ago -- have one signing key, and change decryption keys out fairly often. This way, expired decryption keys can eventually be deleted. This also lets someone hand a key over to the guy in the XKCD ad with the $5 wrench without loss of knees, elbows, or brain tissue, but still maintain security.

    The rub is that not just people using this for sensitive communication need to use PGP; EVERYONE does, even if it is just a message on FB to a friend telling them how awesome smelling their cats fart after feeding them curly fries from Jack in the Box. Once people start using envelopes for their communication, it will bring security to a higher level. Hell, PRZ detailed exactly this in the PGP introduction over 20 years ago.

    It boils down to this: Do you do your own encryption with your own keys, and your own trust, or do you trust that some for-profit group whose interests are likely not in your security to do it for you?

  20. tl;dr version: assume the internet is like UDP by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

    ie, filled with errors, out of sequence, dropped and maybe even faked packets (I know, that goes beyond what UDP is supposed to do).

    but assume that the network is evil and fake and someone is always trying to do bad things (listen, change, realtime trap-on, etc) and write your layered app protocols on top of THAT assumption.

    its a good assumption, in fact. if you assume your transport is bad and your app fills the gap to make the end to end connection, *now*, reliable and trustable, then you can deal with both honest and less-than-honest physical and logical transports (ethernet, atm, cable, dsl, etc).

    the problem is that our protocols and apps have assumed no mess-ups internally in our networks. this is no longer true anymore! the evil bastards have gotton a hint of how cool our internet toy is and they want to pervert it to suit their will.

    if we don't start taking a defensive posture on our network, we will LOSE control (arguable we have already) of our networks.

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    1. Re:tl;dr version: assume the internet is like UDP by nani+popoki · · Score: 1

      And assume that all the available search engines are evil, too. Why this is hell, nor am I out of it.

  21. Article is nonsense by TobiX · · Score: 2

    The money will always be in the "mainstream", or the particular mainstream of every place and time, by definition.

    Megaupload exists because it makes money. It makes money because millions of people watch movies and download shit off it, not because it makes a few hackers "free" to share stuff.

    No mainstream = no money = not *existing* in any noticeable capacity.

  22. Mod Parent up! by BitterOak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was just about to make the very same point myself. It's called Perfect Forward Secrecy. Use protocols in which the users do not have the ability to decrypt content after the session ends. Courts can't require you to do the impossible.

    --
    If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    1. Re:Mod Parent up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They will legislate away that ability too.

    2. Re:Mod Parent up! by jamstar7 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Courts can't require you to do the impossible.

      Yes, they can. And no matter how much you try to prove you can't, they can still charge you for noncompliance to their orders. It's called contempt of court, and the judge can make you rot in a cell until you do comply. No jury, no bail, no nothing.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    3. Re:Mod Parent up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Courts can't require you to do the impossible.

      Yes, they can. And no matter how much you try to prove you can't, they can still charge you for noncompliance to their orders. It's called contempt of court, and the judge can make you rot in a cell until you do comply. No jury, no bail, no nothing.

      The answer here is to make certain that judges and politicians behind all the evil crap these days end up watching their families butchered in front of them before dying slowly and painfully themselves, with full video posted on foreign-hosted video sites for all the world...and other judges/politicians...to see.

      "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

      Government needs to start fearing the people once again.

    4. Re:Mod Parent up! by gknoy · · Score: 1

      In the case where you've taken technical measures to ensure that it's impossible, I wonder if you'd be able to use an expert witness to show that it is indeed impossible.

    5. Re:Mod Parent up! by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      There is no requirement that I know of for a judge to listen to expert witnesses on a contempt charge. It's not part or party of the case the judge is hearing. Contempt of court comes into play during a trial for something else. It's how a judge forces testimony out of a witness that refuses to testify. Ignore a subpoena, get hit with contempt of court. Wanna sit on the witness stand and go to sleep instead of testifying? Contempt of court. Refuse to give evidence in an ongoing trial? Contempt of court.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    6. Re:Mod Parent up! by BitterOak · · Score: 1

      Courts can't require you to do the impossible.

      Yes, they can. And no matter how much you try to prove you can't, they can still charge you for noncompliance to their orders. It's called contempt of court, and the judge can make you rot in a cell until you do comply. No jury, no bail, no nothing.

      Ummm, contempt of court charges can be appealed. It happens all the time.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    7. Re:Mod Parent up! by idontgno · · Score: 1

      Interesting. The use of effective countermeasures becomes, under the table, a default conviction for any IP crime, with an indeterminate sentence. All under the false label "contempt of court".

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    8. Re:Mod Parent up! by callmetom · · Score: 1

      Contempt of Court is a ludicrous concept- H. Beatty Chadwick was divorced, and at the sole accusation of his wife, the court ordered him to pay her $2.5 million allegedly stored in offshore bank accounts. Regardless of whether or not he couldn't or didn't want to provide the money, he spent 14 years in prison despite never actually being charged with a crime. It has no current purpose except giving the court power where it should have none. CoC needs to see serious reform.

    9. Re:Mod Parent up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5th

  23. Freedom's Sake? by sycodon · · Score: 0

    While not minimizing the possibility that the Federal government will go full throttle and do for the internet what it has done for most everything else (fuck it up beyond belief), I sincerely doubt that Paul Venezia and the like are actually very concerned with the concept of freedom and liberty as most of us understand it.

    Rather, they are more concerned with the ability to download music, movies, programs, etc. for free.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Freedom's Sake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is, once the laws for control are on the books, what's stopping the next guy to abuse the power?

    2. Re:Freedom's Sake? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Not risk isn't just (or even primarily) censorship by the government directly. It's corporations.

      However, I think that you're simply wrong about motivations. The desire to pirate isn't even in the top 5 reasons for most people who are paying attention to this stuff, and not in the top 10 for the toolmakers he's talking about.

      That said, I wouldn't be shocked if it was a common reason for people to actually use the tools. All the more reason to find a solution to the "piracy problem" that doesn't involve destroying our freedoms and driving pirates even deeper underground.

    3. Re:Freedom's Sake? by sycodon · · Score: 0

      I don't think the argument that corporations threaten free speech holds water.

      I have an iPhone. It comes with a user agreement that specifics how I can use the phone. If I don't like it, I can get another phone and/or another provider.

      I don't have to have an iPhone. I don't have to use AT&T.

      Using tools to get around restrictions set up by the government (as in China, etc) is NOT the same thing as getting around restrictions placed on a device by the manufacture.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    4. Re:Freedom's Sake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pirating was never meant for the mainstream is part of the issue, it was meant for a few tech savvy individuals to have some lulz in their younger years not having jobs and such. It's grown to where mom can do it (maybe grandma). Yes the lawsuits have scared "some" people away, but last I saw on the tph, there were 5k large seed clouds for everything latest and greatest, no morals, no elegance, no art. So... drive it underground, some of us will rejoice, keep the people away that would compromise the rest of us through their lack of understanding of what they're doing. Or fuckin fix the movie / music prices, $30 for a new release blu-ray??? Can't eat it, can't sell it (rofl), watch it once and use it as a dust catcher. Say SOPA did pass, suddenly that blu-ray is now $50 if you want to watch it.

      We might need action against the MPAA & RIAA, who are they to tell the common folk what to do?

      http://black-march.com/

    5. Re:Freedom's Sake? by mug+funky · · Score: 2

      as much as corporations talk the talk about free markets, they all want to be a monopoly. they all want 100% market capitalization.

      yes, we're free to choose between several walled gardens, and a precious few open platforms. give the corporations their way, and the shiniest, sexiest walled garden would become monopoly, and there'd be just as much control as you'd get from a censor-happy government.

      governments and corporations all want control, but for different reasons.

    6. Re:Freedom's Sake? by JohnFen · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think the argument that corporations threaten free speech holds water.

      We disagree. I think that corporations present a greater threat than the government. With the government, we at least have the constitution and some sort of influence over how it behaves. Not enough, but some. With corporations we have none. And nearly everything we do is in a corporation's control at some point or another.

      I have an iPhone. It comes with a user agreement that specifics how I can use the phone. If I don't like it, I can get another phone and/or another provider.

      I don't have to have an iPhone. I don't have to use AT&T.

      In the US, your choices of providers is extremely limited -- is it three nowadays? The smaller ones simply resell the service of the larger ones so they don't count. You can get another phone, sure, but when they are all behaving in the same fashion -- as they do -- then this choice is illusory.

      And you do have to use AT&T. If you use the internet or telephone service of any sort, the odds are overwhelming that AT&T is handling your communication as some point in its travels, even if you aren't their direct customer.

      Using tools to get around restrictions set up by the government (as in China, etc) is NOT the same thing as getting around restrictions placed on a device by the manufacture.

      I think they're exactly the same thing.

      I think I see where we differ. You see a difference between corporations and government. I think that they have effectively merged and there is little functional difference, except that corporations operate with far fewer safeguards. Corporations do the things that are illegal for the government, and vice versa, but they work hand in hand. The end result is the loss of liberty overall.

    7. Re:Freedom's Sake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't think that you've thought about the argument that corporations threaten free speech.
      Notice that no one else you know besides you bothers to read EULAs before checking the check and yessing the yes?
      Mankind has evolved around the model , you sell/trade it to me, it's mine,I may in turn do the same. Forever.
      Recently within written history the model you rent it to me, it's yours, but I may use it at my discretion as long as my money holds out and pay for any repairs needed. This is just recently being accepted worldwide and still not completely understood by many.
      Credit is still a bust with the majority of the population.
      Now I suppose the people who keep telling you that corporations threaten free speech really should be telling you something to the tune of:
      Corporations threaten to overtake any rights you may have that stand in the way of their domination of mankind right down to what you wear, hear,see, eat, where you live, what you buy and where you work into a more profitable outlook for them NO MATTER WHAT. I mean screw the constitution, any local ordinances and even morality. But that's O.K since you have an Iphone . Cause theres a user agreement, that must make it O.K. to just go ahead and fuck people over who wouldn't agree to the ONEROUS bullshit if they really could understand the EULA after not likely reading it. But since the first payment comes followed by the next and so on they'll just go ahead and process that payment till the day they figure out how to sue for the whole account.
            Well get this buddy, what you and the corporate world will figure out once we cure Cranial-Rectumitis is that when the world says no, it really means GIVE THE FUCK UP ON YOUR BULLSHIT BUSINESSMODEL!
                  Corporations and Government are repeating the same mistakes as those in power in pre revolution France. Let them eat cake.
      I think the battle for speech and information is going to draw blood long before anyone writes any "internet within the internet" software capable to the task.
      I believe, upon watching the Occupy movement, that any el Presidente that gets assasinated any time soon won't be a political figure, it'll be some shmuck CEO.
      Those people are getting bloodthirsty, how much longer till activists from various causes start blowing the shit out of the corporate world in the name of their various Gods? Lawyers worldwide go on sabbatical rather than lose their asses.
      But that's o.k. You've got an Iphone.

    8. Re:Freedom's Sake? by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

      Both corporations and government rely on an intelligent, well-informed group of people (customers/shareholders:corporation::voters:government) who are willing to take action when their interests are not served fully so they do not get out of line.

      Unfortunately, even if you can argue that people in general are intelligent, more often than not they are ignorant of the issues and generally apathetic when someone tries to inform them of any issue that does not have a dire, immediately personal effect.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    9. Re:Freedom's Sake? by RandomAvatar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your first sentence made me spit water on my monitor laughing. Pray tell, WHO are these "intelligent" and "well-informed" people? the politicians have proven that they know squat about the internet while boasting their knowledge of it. The corporations seem intent on crippling a thing that has massively increased their profits.

    10. Re:Freedom's Sake? by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Pray tell, WHO are these "intelligent" and "well-informed" people? the politicians have proven that they know squat about the internet while boasting their knowledge of it.

      It appears that he meant that the people (customers/voters) have to be intelligent and well-informed if they want to make the corporations/government serve their interests, not that the people who make up corporations/governments are intelligent and/or well-informed.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    11. Re:Freedom's Sake? by Chrisje · · Score: 1

      To copy behaviour, tools and ideas is an Evolutionary force that is embedded in our brains. Quite frankly, it's a force that has done us as a species quite a bit of good over evolutionary history. We are, after all, at the top of the food chain.

      There is no possible solution to the "piracy problem" apart from lobotomizing most of mankind. I am very surprised that people don't seem to realize this. If your business model doesn't fit reality, I suggest you try to adapt the business model, not reality.

    12. Re:Freedom's Sake? by Chrisje · · Score: 1

      You might say it's not the same, but I guarantee you there's plenty of people on the street that don't understand the difference in nuance. A restriction is a restriction is a restriction, and quite a few humans have issues accepting those restrictions from the powers that be, whatever their shape may take.

      So a reaction against totalitarian States will be similar to a reaction against restrictive Corporate Policies. :)

    13. Re:Freedom's Sake? by Electricity+Likes+Me · · Score: 1

      This is more the issue that corporations are legally structured like this. Like, a CEO is legally obliged to maximize shareholder profit. Notionally, of course, we're supposed to have a government and judiciary that act in direct opposition to this, and thus eek out the appropriate compromise. In practice this seems to have been lost on the government side (the US Supreme Court still seems to do an alright job of things within their mandate).

  24. Re:it's not about connectivity, it's about accessi by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    The way I see it, accessibility loss is just a precursor to connectivity loss. When ACTA fails to stop piracy what do you think they're going to do next? It's not two separate problems, just two degrees of the same problem.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  25. Re:it's not about connectivity, it's about accessi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There are already millions of pages on the internet. And guess what? There are very few that make it on Google's first page. Which in essence means, they don't exist. But they still do, and they still have traffic. Not the same, true, but not exactly on the edge of oblivion.

    And Tor isn't successful for two reasons, people don't understand YET that the free internet is in danger, and second, it should come as an firefox applet, with two check boxes, "I want to host a Tor server", "Enable Tor", and two buttons, OK and Cancel.

  26. Re:How about back to basics? PGP 101 by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

    For everyone to use encryption, it needs to be made so easy that they don't even need to know what encryption is. Like with SSL - all people need to know is that if their banking site doesn't show a padlock icon, something is suspicious. That probably means accepting 'good enough' encryption for a lot of things - encryption that could be broken by a fairly advanced MITM attack, but which is sufficiently annoying to the evesdropper so as to render mass-monitoring impractical.

  27. Re:it's not about connectivity, it's about accessi by GameboyRMH · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As a darknet I2P is clearly superior to Tor, both in speed and security - Tor still relies on trusted directory servers while I2P is fully distributed and requires no trusted servers of any kind. Tor is better as an anonymizing proxy.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  28. Hold on Tight by carrier+lost · · Score: 1

    Picture the harrowing future of rampant Internet take-downs and censorship, and then picture a single installer that runs under Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux that installs tor, tools to leverage alternative DNS servers, anonymizing proxies, and even private VPN services. A few clicks of the mouse, and suddenly that machine would be able to access sites "banned" through general means.'"

    Kind of breath-taking when you contemplate it.

    Given that the "War on Sharing" is just getting started and will follow the arc of the "War on Drugs", expect the above along with:

    1. A nearly world-wide wireless mesh -network enabled by ubiquitous transponders in everything. T-shirts, car-keys, tennis balls, dog collars - solar/motion/thermal-powered chips automatically propagating every signal they can receive to the utmost of their ability.
    2. Attempts by the faceless, unaccountable corpo-governments to outlaw this "smart dust" or counteract it with jammers.
    3. The dystopian future we've been promised for decades by sci-fi writers. One with flying cars, immortality, 24-hour surveillance and secret laws.

    Of course, the question will become - are you with the Empire or the Alliance?

  29. It's the sites, not the access by Kurt+Granroth · · Score: 2

    The problem with this approach is that it focuses on the end user's connectivity and not the effect such laws would have on the web sites themselves. Who cares if you have unfettered access to all sites when the sites don't exist due to legal threats.

    Let's take Slashdot as an example. Say something like SOPA/PIPA/ACTA/etc eventually succeeds and it becomes very easy to shut down any website with just a suggestion of copyright infringement on the site. That is, if somebody posted a link to The Pirate Bay in the comments, then somebody else could get Slashdot as a whole effectively shut down as a result. And yes, that's what could happen with laws such as SOPA.

    What do you think happens to sites like Slashdot in an environment like this? The only reasonable response would be to drastically limit, if not eliminate, all user comments.

    Meanwhile, the Slashdot user deftly installs the circumvention software and is easily able to get to Slashdot... but who cares? Without the comments, the entire site has only marginal value.

    That's why circumvention software is only a tiny part of a workaround and one that will eventually fail. It's the sites that need to be protected, not the access.

    1. Re:It's the sites, not the access by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...The only reasonable response would be to drastically limit, if not eliminate, all user comments.

      Meanwhile, the Slashdot user deftly installs the circumvention software and is easily able to get to Slashdot... but who cares? Without the comments, the entire site has only marginal value.

      Whaddya mean without the comments?

      With these laws, all mainstream websites lose the ability to have user-submitted content, not just geek ones. You think Facebook's potential liability will be any lower than Slashdot's? But the mainstream public (not just geeks) has already voted that they like talking to one another. Ergo, it must be dealt with.

      One of the components of "circumvention software" that the user just installed, is software which queries p2p networks for comments (and ratings opinions) (and opinions about which comment-signers are spammers), and assembles the discussion on the user's computer, without Slashdot's knowledge or consent or ability to control. "http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/01/30/1917236/jailbreaking-the-internet-for-freedoms-sake" is used as a searchkey to display the public's comments about that URL. And the user "posts" comments by serving them out to that key. Every page on the web is a possible attachment point for discussion. (To a lesser and cruder degree we already do this, to query central authorities for opinions on whether or not a domain name serves malware.)

      Similarly, once the MPAA forces everyone to deal with commenting in this way, then movies' own websites (or sales sites or IMDB pages) will be the index where people attach comments, reviews, magnet links, whatever. No more peskly pirate bay on Google, no more Kevin Smith complaining that site X allowed someone to review his movie, etc. At that point, the MPAA's lobbyists will have achieved the in-your-face-obvious consequences of their legislation.

    2. Re:It's the sites, not the access by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

      There are tools out there that allow for decentralized P2P message boards.

      There's not much on there worth reading right now but do you not feel such things would become increasingly popular if the public internet were forced to pretty much end user commenting?

      People like talking to each other; it's what the internet's always been used for. Other uses come and go but communication's always been there and people will find a way to keep communicating.

      --
      The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
  30. It's not just the courts either, they'll ban it. by elucido · · Score: 1

    And anyone caught with it will be treated as a child pornographer and will be attacked by vigilantes.

  31. Current trends... by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

    ... aren't in home desktop machines or laptops. They're in 4GWhatever smartphones. Those are what's being pushed now. Your nifty installer might work on a desktop or laptop or even one of the few surviving netbooks, but let's see it work on a smartphone and still have plenty of storage space to do useful stuff with. And be prepared to pay out the ass for your data plan.

    And what you gonna do with that pirated data you do manage to download onto your home machine? What's to stop antivirus makers from adding the hashes of popular movies to their virus databases, with appropriate scary-sounding descriptions ('FuzzyWuzzy virus detected! Multiple incidents! Clean these? ')?

    --
    Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    1. Re:Current trends... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even more ominous, what would happen if on the heels of ACTA/SOPA/PIPA, a law being passed forcing all Internet connected hosts to have a hardware enforced DRM stack, with checks to ban machines that fail this healthcheck.

      It would be trivial to turn on NAC, and force home router makers to enforce it (or be disconnected by the ISP.) A program just like an antivirus could be put in a hypervisor and look for signatures. Instead of viruses, it would check for hashes of copyrighted items, as well as tools like PGP, and would not just disable the computer, but alert the authorities of the violation.

    2. Re:Current trends... by The+Mister+Purple · · Score: 1

      Healthcheck bans work pretty well up until the the "OK" signal gets mimicked. Although, what with this being the Internet and all, I can't imagine anyone here would be able to figure out a way to do that... for about five minutes.

      --
      "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." Feynman
    3. Re:Current trends... by iceaxe · · Score: 1

      What's to stop antivirus makers from adding the hashes of popular movies to their virus databases[...]

      Add a byte to the file.

      --
      WALSTIB!
    4. Re:Current trends... by sowth · · Score: 1

      You mean like the CBDTPA? They already tried that ten years ago.

    5. Re:Current trends... by jamstar7 · · Score: 1

      That's how you could get around it, but it doesn't stop the antivirus people from putting the hashes in to begin with.

      Pesonally, I just prefer to rip directly from the DVD & shrink it. If they come up with hashes for the stuff I have on my drive, I've got more serious problems than antivirus software.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
  32. Keeping an eye on them wasn't the point. by elucido · · Score: 1

    The point has been to try and control the flow of information not merely to watch it.

    I'm fairly certain that the government has an eye on everybody who can write code. If you are a programmer you probably
    at some point have an FBI file just as a gun owner or bomb maker would. Remember the government considers encryption to be a munition so what does that make a programmer?

    1. Re:Keeping an eye on them wasn't the point. by iceaxe · · Score: 1

      I feel really sorry for my FBI "guardian angel". Must be really boring.

      In other news, "The Government" is well known to be incompetent, so does that make me safe from their interference with my evil plots?

      I get equal amusement from listening to people who believe "The Government" is either all powerful or all powerless. It's just people, doing whatever they think their job entails, or sometimes trying to enrich or empower themselves in more or less ethical ways. Or just hanging on until retirement. Or in the case of elected politicians, doing and saying whatever they think is most likely to get them re-elected, and to hell with understanding the issues.

      --
      WALSTIB!
  33. Whiskey rebellion all over again by Shotgun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And yet we have people running covert operations to let corn rot and then distill the runoffs. They have to hideout in the woods to perform one of the simplest operations you can do with fire and liquid. The laws are justified and sold, claiming that they protect people from bad alcohol, when we all know it is about tax revenue.

    In 1914, the federal government went on record outlawing a weed that covered the banks of the Potomac. A huge cadre of policemen have since been converted to an army to prevent people from talking stupid and getting the munchies. The claim is that marijuana is a "gateway" drug, when we all know that the taxed alcohol the authorities allow is the real gateway drug.

    Anyone that calls these regimes into question is labeled with an outlaw, rebel, or some other less than "proper society" title. Any politician that claims that it is a matter of personal liberty is called "bat shit crazy" when they aren't being completely ignored.

    Why, oh why, would anyone think that the powers that be would allow an alternative internet? "If you're on the alternative internet, it must be because of child pornography!!! Or you might be a terrorist! THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" The excuse to bust down doors to lock people up for talking in chatrooms is prepared already, and the people have been conditioned to swallow it already.

    --
    Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
    Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    1. Re:Whiskey rebellion all over again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all those policemen etc. that were no longer needed to catch bootleggers, couldn't just be fired now could they? instead a new unwinable war had to be found, so weed and other drugs it was....

      police, drug dealers, prison workers, prison owners, police gadget manufacturers, politicians that want so seem tough on crime, etc. all benefit from the war on drugs, it is hard to compete agains that with facts

      maybe all the this latest piracy talk is really an indication of them thinking of abanding the war on drugs and jumping on piracy instead

  34. Encryption use = suspicious. by elucido · · Score: 1

    Anyone who uses encryption will be flagged as some sort of pedophile or terrorist. So encryption is not the answer.

    1. Re:Encryption use = suspicious. by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 1

      Anyone who uses encryption will be flagged as some sort of pedophile or terrorist. So encryption is not the answer.

      So is everyone who buys a white, nondescript minivan automatically flagged as some sort of pedophile or terrorist? Maybe because the act in and of itself isn't very noteworthy. This is what will happen when the vast majority of people use encryption for daily communication.

      The true criminals will do other things to bring attention to their nefarious activities and the cops will have to work a tad harder to catch them.

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
    2. Re:Encryption use = suspicious. by iceaxe · · Score: 1

      If everyone uses it, it isn't suspicious.

      --
      WALSTIB!
    3. Re:Encryption use = suspicious. by Bucky24 · · Score: 1

      Now I may be wrong here, but isn't SSL a form of encryption? And doesn't facebook default to https connections (ie, encrypted secure connections)? There are a lot of terrorists out there, clearly....

      --
      All the world's a CPU, and all the men and women merely AI agents
    4. Re:Encryption use = suspicious. by Catbeller · · Score: 1

      "So is everyone who buys a white, nondescript minivan automatically flagged as some sort of pedophile or terrorist? "

      Yes. Try sitting in that van, parked. Just the act of looking out the window at a kid going by will get you cops with guns drawn. The USA is insane.

      This was forecast almost twenty years back, in the Culture of Fear. We fear the wrong things. http://www.amazon.com/Culture-Fear-Americans-Afraid-Things/dp/0465014909

    5. Re:Encryption use = suspicious. by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

      Of course, this wouldn't be a thing if law enforcement spent their resources better than on tracking down people swapping this stuff around.

      I'm not saying it's right, but it's much like the war on drugs; cracking down on people who possess child pornography is treating a symptom. Most people looking at pictures are no harm to anyone, the same way that most people playing violent video games are not going to go out and shoot anyone or most people watching adult pornography are not going to go out and rape anyone. Studying trends SEEMS to indicate that the incidence of sex crimes is reduced anywhere that has the internet.

      So maybe they should be focusing their limited resources on crimes that actually harm others. No wonder taxes are so high if they're spending their time tracking everyone with an encrypted connection.

      Not that this is probably going to be a popular opinion.

      --
      The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
    6. Re:Encryption use = suspicious. by The+Wild+Norseman · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the reminder, I bought and read that book quite a few years ago and only within the past few years did I finally get rid of it.

      --
      "A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
  35. You can't run forever by Hentes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While circumventing censorship is better than nothing this is not technical problem but a legal one. We need to stand up against censorship on the streets, not on some dark unknown meshnet.

    1. Re:You can't run forever by alexo · · Score: 1

      We need to stand up against censorship on the streets, not on some dark unknown meshnet.

      Well, are you?

    2. Re:You can't run forever by sowth · · Score: 1

      Actually we need to both "stand up against censorship in the streets" and create "dark unknown meshnets" which evade censorship and surveillance.

  36. Hard drive companies should fund this by Animats · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If it weren't for pirated content, few people would need big hard drives. I mean, really, a terabyte on the desktop?

    It's really hard to fill a big hard drive without pirating stuff. I was just looking at my hard drive space consumption. I have on it:

    • A copy of the disk of every computer I've owned back to 1997.
    • Source code archives for everything I've written since then.
    • Backups of all my web sites, including the databases.
    • A MySQL database of every business in the US and UK. (This is a purchased product.)
    • A MySQL database summarizing every SEC filing since 2000.
    • All the records for our DARPA Grand Challenge vehicle, including source code archives, data logs and video.
    • Cygwin, with most of the GNU development tools.
    • Autodesk Inventor Suite, which is about 2 DVDs worth of software. (This is a benefit of a TechShop membership, incidentally.)
    • Multiple versions of mechanical designs in Inventor format. (One copy of one design is 36MB.)
    • Short animations from my days in physically based animation software, with all the files used to create them.
    • 12 years of email.

    This all adds up to about 200GB.

    If it weren't for piracy, the hard drive industry would be a lot smaller.

    1. Re:Hard drive companies should fund this by petes_PoV · · Score: 2
      Add to that all the photos you take, maybe your home videos too and it's easy to get up to a TB - or more. Buy yourself a PVR that records HD content and even 2TB fills up pretty quick if you don't keep on top of cleaning up content after you've watched it.

      Maybe your post should be updated to: If it weren't for video, the hard drive industry would be a lot smaller.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    2. Re:Hard drive companies should fund this by WiPEOUT · · Score: 2

      What he said. Photos alone runs into several hundred gigabytes and I've only been into photography a few years, and only started shooting RAW relatively recently. With terabytes of storage affordable, I'm now keeping high-quality video from events that I wouldn't have been able to keep before.

    3. Re:Hard drive companies should fund this by sgtrock · · Score: 1

      As others have mentioned, raw video footage that you shot yourself can chew up tons of space. So can copies of DVDs and Blu-Ray disks. Heck, I've used up about 500 GB on my completely legally purchased library and mine isn't all that large. A typical DVD release is what? 5 GB or so? A typical Blu-Ray release is nearly an order of magnitude more. It doesn't take too many of those before your 1 TB disk is full.

      Throw in the fact that games now routinely require 20+ GB EACH and it's easy to see many people chewing up a 1 TB disk and wanting more without ever doing anything even remotely illegal.

    4. Re:Hard drive companies should fund this by Paco103 · · Score: 1

      My Steam directory alone is 270GB, and just glancing through my library that's roughly half of the licenses I have actually purchased on Steam. No, I don't play them all, but why should I constantly redownload them? When I do decide to play, I want to play NOW, not tomorrow after it's done re-downloading.

      Add to that my non-steam games, which are still often 5-20GB per title, though I've only got 3-4 of those installed usually. My DVD library, of DVD's I actually own and are on shelves in my living room: I have about 1.5TB right there. At 1.5TB, that's all MP4, it would be much higher if I also stored special features and raw images. Why put them on HD instead of using the DVD's? Well, I've already got 4 DVD's that I can no longer play without issues, and 2 of them had never even been out of the case before. I bought the DVD years ago and haven't watched it yet . . .because it's long. .. and I have a short attention span. . . . and there's a squirrel outside my window looking for acorns. In addition, I run XBMC in the living room, which gives me a wonderful catalog when everything is in MP4. I travel a lot. Ever tried to travel with DVD's? It sucks. I don't carry my entire digital collection, but it's simple enough to just load up my phone or my laptop with some movies and TV shows for while I'm on the road and don't have netflix access.

      Then I've got my DVR, which is also in my computer. Dual HD tuners can fill up space pretty quick, and I only allocated 500GB to that with space recycled as the content ages or gets watched. Now, add 50% to everything for a Raid 5 array.

      There's plenty of legitimate uses of that kind of hard drive space. But the **AA doesn't want THAT usage to be allowed either. My movies are not DRM'd and will play on Windows, my Android phone, my iPod classic, my linux machine, my Wii, and at a friends house off a thumb drive if we have a movie night. I don't have to worry about what is compatible with what, what DRM this device can play, etc. It just works!

    5. Re:Hard drive companies should fund this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      200gb is 200 mins of DV consumer tape. People who owned a dv camcorder had either to fill hard disks or compress the material (much space can be saved, see HD video today) and hope their editing software didn't mess the sync.

    6. Re:Hard drive companies should fund this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > If it weren't for pirated content, few people would need big hard drives. I mean, really, a terabyte on the desktop?

      Bullshit.

      I write music and have well over two terrabytes of self created audio plus sample packs etc.

      Your use != everyone elses use.

  37. fight back by Phoenix666 · · Score: 2

    The *AA's have declared war on the free internet, and governments everywhere are getting on board with that after seeing the Arab Spring use its tools to overthrow their governments and generally stop doing what they're told. We saw with the SOPA protest how effective we can be when we work together, because there are vastly more of us than there are of them.

    What we need to do now is to take it to the next level and take the fight to them. Revising copyright is probably a good place to start because there is a greater degree of public awareness about it now. If we push for the complete abolition of the notion of copyright, and push very hard, then the *AA's will be put on the defensive.

    More generally we need to expunge government of the clueless, supine creatures who lay down for all this nonsense as well as the pure evil who are screwing us with full awareness of the damage they're doing. With the advent of additive manufacturing this same set of issues is about to spread to every industry, and it's going to intensify with those larger stakes. We can see a new era of human freedom or unprecedented repression, but we won't tilt the balance in our favor unless we all fight hard.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
    1. Re:fight back by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

      well, reversing copyright to a sane level would be rather difficult since there's too much financial interest in the status quo.

    2. Re:fight back by ocratato · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Somehow we need to make a copyrighted work a liability rather than an asset.

      [The best I can think of is to get the distributors involved in a legal battle amongst themselves.]

  38. MPAA is not comfortable with revenue by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    Even saying they're "uncomfortable with the Internet" is to drink the Koolaide. The long-term and repeated historical trend has been that they're uncomfortable with sales, and this time the threat that people will shove more money down their gullets than the Hollywood companies can handle, is just as grave, and they are fighting it just as tenaciously.

    Part of me wants to say there's one difference, which is that this time they are winning and achieving the goal of lowering their revenue -- driving people toward piracy because they refuse to offer the files themselves. But that's only a personal perspective and when you look at the actual numbers, it's not true: revenues are continuing to increase.

    So once again, even the MPAA can't fuck this up, and they're gagging on the money that we force them to consume against their will.

    The issue everyone needs to face, is whether you will disregard their choking noises like a coward at an accident scene, or if you'll be compassionate and help them achieve their long sought-after goal? Are you going to callously defy the MPAA and keep sending money for broken DRMed shit to be earmarked for the purchase of more absurd laws, or are you going to join their leaders in the effort to drive MPAA companies out of business?

    I know that their suicide sounds like an insurmountable mountain, a futile effort which has stood the test of many, over decades of repeated attempts. Even the mighty Valenti couldn't prevent the movie rental market; if he, a figure of legend in modern times, couldn't bankrupt the studios, what hope do we the people have now, led by our pathetic Dodd? All I can say is take heart: if we all pull together, We Can Do This!

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  39. The Internet Jailbreak is EASY... by joenospamblo · · Score: 1

    Let the Censors be hoist on their own petard...

    TOR for network transport
    Encrypted/Signed DNS local DNS proxy for locating public network resources
    Anonymous TOR DNS for locating encrypted network resources
    Bittorrent for distributed storage and data transport
    Overlay protocols for WEB, MAIL, CHAT, Internet Phone, etc that never leave the TOR network
    with local proxy/forwarders and distributed servers or no servers at all
    Exit Node proxies with white-lists for Twitter, Facebook, Google, etc.
    All wrapped up in a simple to use installer for Windows, Mac OS, Linux, Unix, IOS and Android.

  40. Pirate internet, ahoy! by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    The internet now threatens the world's government-corporations and so of course, attempts will be made to curtail it. This will inevitably result in a "pirate" internet similar to "pirate" radio. Servers will be set up offshore, on satellites, over the borders and in the woods, on thousands of buildings and in the powerlines. Underground transmission, actually a very old technology, will make a comeback (http://www.cellular-news.com/story/18682.php). Pirate internetworks will shift and bob and weave and never, ever, be discussed in the mainstream media any more than pirate radio is now. But the new interwebs will survive, and thrive.

    The "funny" (or not so funny) thing is the end result of restriction is lessened national security as sophisticated methods of alternative internet communications are forced to grow and develop due to government-corporate restrictions. Terrorists *will* use the pirate network just as terrorists will eventually manage to send the USA a nuke or two via the drug cartel networks that wouldn't exist but for Nancy Reagan's obsession with "Just say no."

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  41. NDAA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Picture the harrowing future of rampant Internet take-downs and censorship, and then picture a single installer that runs under Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux that installs tor, tools to leverage alternative DNS servers, anonymizing proxies, and even private VPN services. A few clicks of the mouse, and suddenly that machine would be able to access sites "banned" through general means.

    And then picture being held indefinitely without warrant or trial if any sites you accessed were deemed related to "terrorism" (very loosely defined/open for revision of definitions that may threaten any form of political free speech) thanks to the NDAA recently passed into law (at least here in the US for US citizens anyways).

    Yes, it's nice so many people are getting so worked up over the freedom to use the internet- wish there was as much backlash over the NDAA as there was over SOPA...

  42. netcoins? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    netcoins?

  43. Paranoid Linux? by valley · · Score: 1

    This is sort of the idea behind the Paranoid Linux distro that Cory Doctorow envisioned in his young adult novel Little Brother. Anybody working on it?

    1. Re:Paranoid Linux? by Sparx139 · · Score: 1

      According to the wiki article, one started but it's now defunct.

      --
      Our culture doesn't get smarter, it just finds new ways of being retarded.
  44. Baboons: by Hartree · · Score: 1

    Now, why are you insulting those respectable and successful savannah dwelling primates by comparing them to a lower life form?

  45. Infrastructure is a weak point here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why everybody hope that people with enough power to ban Internet would stop on just some of the sites and'll keep infrastructure intact?
    There will be no Internet, alternative or not, if you'll just cut the wires.

  46. Palladium will eventualy stop piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ever heard of the palladium chip ... when they implement it copying anything will be useless ... and I say they will make it illigal not to have one of this chips in the near future

  47. Been commenting on this for 13+ years. Thoughts: by Catbeller · · Score: 4, Informative

    Darkneting won't save us. They can deep packet inspect, or block service to TOR nodes, or simply disconnect anyone who tries. They can - will- turn the internet very quickly into an old fashioned telephone system, with your real name required and full tracking on at all times. Bandwidth throttling, for instance, while ostensibly to stop "hogs" and kill Netflix, is very useful to discourage people from running TOR nodes. Hard to run encrypted virtual pipes when they constrict at will.

    They can pass any law they like and criminalize any trick we can come up with. The spooks behind this are not uninformed, and read the same boards we do.

    Young people, 30 and below in age, are not concerned. They have never, if you think about it, lived in a free world. They laid face-down on the hallway floors in high school while giant thugs let dogs sniff their crotches, looking for drugs like aspirin and Dayquil. They have been fingerprinted, watched, recorded, and monitored to the point where their school-issued laptops were taking pictures of them in their underwear for years. They have never lived in a world where such things are insane; this is everyday life to them. As they grew up, they have to give pee tests, saliva tests, stop for random searches by cops, swear to moral turpitude, sign up to homeowner and condo associations that pretty much are prison systems with nicer plumbing, and submit every movement on the internet and in person to GPS/IP-registerd locations. They don't understand why privacy is important; they are indoctrinated by the sheer banality of the evil. People who live by sewage filtration plants don't smell the shit, and young people don't smell the loss of their liberties.

    Solutions have to be hardware based combined with newer communication tech. Simple WiFi with encryption won't work; they'll make it illegal.

    Ideas: go to LEDs in a tube to transmit optical signals over short distances, home to home, building to building. Infrared lasers to act as backbones to a TOR-like network that does-not-interface with the old internet. The old internet is dead, people; they commercialized it, gave to the corporations and the police states of the world.

    Wild ideas: finally solve the problem of radio interference- it is a hardware/software limitation, not a real one. Thousands can transmit and receive over a single frequency if we solve this riddle, and then bandwidth is effectively infinite enough that TOR-like radio mesh networks could actually work with low latency and high throughput, with encryption.

    3-D printing of custom network nodes that do not conform to the government's ideas of MAC addresses and complete surveillance. We'll need our own custom 3-D printers as well; they will easily require mass-produced printers to ID themselves in the products.

    Well out there ideas: Quantum entanglement as a communications method. Don't laugh too hard; think about it. A transmission system that doesn't actually transmit through the air, but instead transmits at a distance without any detectable means. It can be done; I'm not the genius to do it. Believe it that the military will do it if it can be done. We all can do it too.

  48. Cell Phone Store And Forward by Greyfox · · Score: 1
    Open the wifi in ad-hoc mode, as you wander around it connects to other cell phones and pushes the packets along! Just like UUCP back in the day!

    Now all I have to do is figure out routing in such a chaotic model...

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  49. Re:it's not about connectivity, it's about accessi by Prune · · Score: 1

    Does I2P offer perfect forward secrecy the way Tor's newer "telescoping" routing does?

    --
    "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
  50. Yes, Correct. by scurvyj · · Score: 0

    Yes, Correct, Getting there. There are already "Black Apps" for mobile devices and "Grey Apps" (depending on who's budget you are treading on). Its all getting far too confusing for the Moron In The Street - so dont expect any thanks - but they get protection for free as the rest of us ramp this War up. Arrg, ranting, but you get the drift. Rowry.

  51. Going Dark on the cheap. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All that scenario would require would be a way to wrap up existing technologies into a nice, easily-installed package available through any number of methods. Picture the harrowing future described above, and then picture a single installer that runs under Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux that installs tor, tools to leverage alternative DNS servers, anonymizing proxies, and even private VPN services. A few clicks of the mouse, and suddenly that machine would be able to access sites "banned" through general means.

    Not that it really matters but one can already get alternative router firmware that gives one alternative DNS, and Tor which IMHO is really were this functionality should be. Add in plug (usually ARM-based) computers with laptop hard drives and the server-storage part of the new internet is there. Or just a router with an USB port and a HDD in an external enclosure for really cheap.

  52. Until encryption becomes illegal... by Ramin_HAL9001 · · Score: 1

    As long as regular people (corporations) are laying down the "tubes" the government will be there laying down the laws that let them see what goes in and comes out of those "tubes". Sure, we could have a 100% encrypted internet, that only trusted people could use. But there will come a day when sending encrypted data at all will be as obvious as painting a bulls-eye on your ass and mooning the police.

  53. Not all that bad by trojjan · · Score: 1

    Maybe once the internet is truly broken it will only be the geeks using it using encryption/tor/vpns etc just like when I first learnt what computers were(around 1995). And since the population of people using the internet will be so low it wouldn't be beneficial to come after them.

  54. Re:it's not about connectivity, it's about accessi by rohan972 · · Score: 1

    There could be million free pages under any super-free Internet. What's the point of it if nothing could be found?

    Presumably someone would build a search engine.

  55. Re:it's not about connectivity, it's about accessi by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

    Of course I2P is superior as a Darknet. TOR is not a Darknet.

    --
    The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
  56. Re:Been commenting on this for 13+ years. Thoughts by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

    I object strenuously to your "30 and under" label, sir.

    We are not all a bunch of drooling morons, and generalizations about me based on my age do not encourage me to listen to your argument.

    --
    The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
  57. Re:it's not about connectivity, it's about accessi by mapkinase · · Score: 1

    >Presumably someone would build a search engine

    That will become a central point to the whole system, making it also an Achilles heel.

    Centralization of the Internet (like centralization of anything else) is both a positive and negative quality: positive, because it allows a fast access to any relevant resource by many quickly and negative, because it makes the functionality of the whole system vulnerable.

    I remember Web 0.9 in 1994, decentralized, like a magic forest in a adventure computer game, where Bookmarks were essentials and pages truly were regarded by the number of external links, and the ones that had the most were treasured. Pedro links, etc. Then as it usualy happens with free market based systems (every competition is a positive feedback loop - the more you are winning the more you have the capabilities to win), Internet become imperialized (in Marxist-Leninist definition of imperialism) and monopolized, Google being a central access point to almost everything on the Internet (I am simplifying by disregarding other monster web sites).

    Those secretfreenets exist as long as they are at initial romantic decentralized early-adopter wild-West-pioneer robber-barons state. In other words, as long as they are not relevant much.

    It seems that a solution to attack on mainstream internet is to maintain a freefloating living network of networks where networks are born, reach golden age of being popular but not centralized yet, and die out being not able to maintain secret security by obscurity character under the pressure of fame and necessity of centralization.

    That's what is happening right now. So I stand corrected in my overmoderated pessimistic GP post: it's fine now, the king is dead, long live the princes and counts of the Internet.

    Same thing happens to Jihaad, by the way.

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  58. Laws HAD TO change?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To do that, the laws have to, and had to, change.

    [Emphasis mine.] This is what I don't get. How were the old laws worse than the new ones?

    With the old laws, it was illegal for someone to pirate, and legal for them to use stuff they bought. People just plugged the cable TV into their tuner, it Just Worked, and they auto-paid every goddamn month. You put the VHS tape into the player, fast-forwarded through ads, and it Just Worked. Worried the kids will get jelly on the tape when they pull it out? Make them play a copy, which Just Works (though with some regrettable degradation; and we looked forward to digital tech fixing that problem).

    Under the old laws, public policy was definitely pro-IP. It prohibited, and never incentivized, infringement.

    With the new laws, it was illegal for someone to pirate, and illegal for them to work with they stuff they bought. People plugged the cable TV into my digital tuners, and it only get the over-the-air channels. Want anything other than "basic cable?" Tough shit. Or you put the shiney disc into the weirdo player and it does a bunch of stupid shit like insisting you watch ads, and only outputs to the monitor with the right resolution, if the monitor implements HDCP. Put the disc into your computer's optical drive, and playing it requires that you (and the player author) either break the law or do that same stupid shit as the weirdo player does. Worried the kids will scratch the disc (Kids?! I have scratched some discs!), so you wanna make a copy for them to use? Good fucking luck; you're going to have to violate DMCA to do it, and so will the person who sells you the equipment or software.

    So now people bittorrent everything and stopped paying the cable company and disc sellers. Way to go, new laws.

    The new laws are what is causing creators to not get paid: they FUCKING OUTLAWED non-copyright-infringing activity, and worse (I'm ok with breaking the law inside my home ; no one will ever know) they outlawed the creation and distribution of non-copyright-infringing tools. It's easier to let r3l3a$e gr00pz worry about dealing with all that crap. And as a bonus, it's cheaper to get the Just Works media too.

    Are you sure the laws "had to change"? 'Cuz I sure as hell didn't pirate stuff before all this broken tech and crazy new laws which legitimize it, wore me down until I give up on trying to work with the system. And I still don't pirate music because the RIAA eventually gave up on trying to get me to pirate; with music CDs you're back in 1995 when everything Just Worked. (But that's just a consequence of the distribution media and the tech; the law still encourages people to not pay, if publishers use DRM.)

    Now with SOPA they're trying to drive the mainstream populace to darknets, so there won't even be online "social" distinction between payers and infringers. Perhaps this is how the laws have to change -- they're trying to make there be more seeds, and further try to get outlaws and law-abiders working together on everything, by making people turn outlaw just to make things Just Work?

    They already threatened to make people turn outlaw simply to get DNS to Just Work. DNS! Who the fuck doesn't use DNS? That would have been 100% collateral damage -- telling every single person to get into the routine habit of breaking laws. Once they're already telling you that you'll be in trouble if you use the Internet for .. pretty much anything .. then why not pirate? At that point the system doesn't merely suck; it's over-the-top hostile.

    If we're trying to pay people who make things, then the main way the law needs to change right now, is to repeal the last 15 years worth of changes and fire the people who made those changes.

    Piracy is out of hand today. As 'geeks', we've provided the public with the a

    1. Re:Laws HAD TO change?! by Exit_On_Right · · Score: 1

      Hi!

      This was in specific response to the "scarcity" legal defense which the pirate community likes to cite when folks say that copying movies/music is theft. When non-tangibles began to appear as items for mass distribution of sale (music/movies), the laws changed to protect them as property, even though the concept of scarcity clearly did not apply. (This happened with the first introduction of copyright/trademark etc...)

      I'm not referring to the recent group of laws which intends to make fair use illegal.

  59. Re:Been commenting on this for 13+ years. Thoughts by Catbeller · · Score: 1

    Relax, it's hyperbole. But truer for the under-30's than for the over-30's. We oldsters didn't grow up in the police state system that schools have become. And, I'm in the same give-us-your-fingerprints employment that you are. Young people will tend to not notice that the world has changed - they can't, they weren't here thirty years ago. For oldsters, it's horrifying.

    Damn straight you aren't all fools. God, I'm depending on it! We greying-beards ain't gonna last forever. Keep that flag up and think about alternative internet tech - it will be needed.

  60. Re:Been commenting on this for 13+ years. Thoughts by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

    Oh, I do more than think about it ;)

    On the other hand, I do have to admit to rather egotistically grouping myself into a very small percentage to which I apply the "not fool" label. I think - for now - it transcends age, though. Those who are of a certain mental bent and agility will continue to resist the brainwashing, because that's built into human nature, and as long as materials are still out there to study - history, more than anything - we'll know that it's not necessarily "supposed" to be the way we're told it's supposed to be.

    No group in history has ever achieved any sort of freedom by sitting back and simply obeying the rules and working within the system, and revolutionaries are always found in the most unexpected times and places.

    --
    The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.
  61. Re:Been commenting on this for 13+ years. Thoughts by ForgedArtificer · · Score: 1

    For the record, I've been reading things all day that may have put me in a reactionary state of mind, so I apologize.

    --
    The right to offend is central to the right to free speech.