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Leaked Zynga Memo Justifies Copycat Strategy

bonch writes "After taking heat over allegations of copying hit indie game Tiny Tower, Zynga founder Mark Pincus wrote an internal memo justifying the company's strategy of cloning competing titles, citing the Google search engine and Apple iPod as successful products which weren't first in their markets. Pincus infamously told employees: 'I don't want f*cking innovation. You're not smarter than your competitor. Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers.'"

25 of 384 comments (clear)

  1. And that is what really stiffles innovation by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Who wants to come up with the next great innovation, when you know damn well that the second you do, some big player with more resources is just going to swoop in and steal it?

    This is the kind of thing that copyright and patent laws were SUPPOSED to protect against. But, in reality, copyrights and patents are just something the big boys use as bludgeons against the little guys (and against each other). You think a little indie developer like Nimblebit has the money to hire even a single lawyer to go up against Zynga's *team* of high-priced lawyers? Good luck with that.

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    1. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by Exitar · · Score: 5, Funny

      Remove lawyers?

    2. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apparently the Zynga mission statement is, "Do Evil".

    3. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by countertrolling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Revoking an abusive corporation's charter and putting its intellectual 'property' into the public domain would be much more effective. That's the kind of death penalty we should rally around.

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    4. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by JustSomeProgrammer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Zynga didn't make a more appealing game. They made a better marketed game. You know something the little guy can't compete on since Zynga actually has a budget to do that with.

    5. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by countertrolling · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We shouldn't allow such complex laws that we need lawyers.

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    6. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by Baloroth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is not the mere existence of lawyers, which really is a necessity. The problem is we have too many lawyers, and too many of them are involved in writing laws. The result is massive legal complexity, so that even the simplest laws require lawyers, and often specialized ones at that, merely to understand. This is necessary, in many cases, simply to give the lawyers jobs.

      In some cases, the entire system is designed so that the only ones who really end up profiting are the lawyers. The law is the fundamental problem, but as I said, the law ends up being written by lawyers, who somewhat understandably try to keep themselves as necessary as possible. The result is an expensive mess for anyone who isn't a lawyer.

      --
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    7. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is a more reasonable direction to take, but part of the reason laws are so complex is because not every situation is the same. And you could have laws with a very broad scope with a lot left to judges to decide, that would harm one of the underlying principles of common law many people agree with, the equal protection provision.

      If person A commits a given action, and person B does the exact same, you don't want the judge to have leeway to execute A and give B a month's probation. This means that laws have to be specific about different cases and their distinctions. Complexity arises naturally from that.

      Basically, I'd need to see any proposed plan of simplification before I could ever agree to it. It's a nice idea though.

    8. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      walk into a lawyer's office or entry way. tons and tons of 'impressive' books, right?

      add to case law. add to this and that. no trimming; just adding.

      does this sound like a sensible design? from an engineering POV, does this sound sustainable and efficient? having so much stuff to sort thru to know what is 'right vs wrong' ?

      tons and tons of exceptions. lots of rules, but more and more exceptions. is that not broken, by design??

      I know why we allow it. those in the system who benefit from the system do not want to shake-up the system. its that simple.

      but its still very wrong. just like tax codes; ever-growing lists of things as rules and exceptions. how self-serving! not We The People serving, but so hard that few can file taxes without those dumb software programs we have to *buy* (again, those who benefit do not want the system changed.)

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    9. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If person A commits a given action, and person B does the exact same, you don't want the judge to have leeway to execute A and give B a month's probation.

      We already do this. We don't punish actions, we punish consequences. If I'm in a hurry and blow through a stop sign on purpose I get a fine. If I'm distracted by the guy behind me tailgating and blow through a stop sign and kill someone I'm up for manslaughter. My illegal activity, not stopping at the sign, is identical. But the consequences, and therefore the punishment are very different; in fact, they are nearly reversed from what some schools of ethics say they should be.

    10. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by SirWhoopass · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the law was only concerned with consequences then there would be no difference between manslaughter and first-degree murder. The outcome is the same: someone died. Action (or inaction, in the case of negligence) plus intent are a part of the law.

    11. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, that's not how it works at all. You blow through the sign, you get fined for that. You blow through the sign and kill someone, you get fined for blowing the sign *and* are additionally charged with manslaughter.

    12. Re:And that is what really stiffles innovation by s73v3r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's quite possibly the stupidest fucking statement I've read today. "How many laws are there?"

      I tell you what, why don't I ask you how many scientific theories there are. Can't answer? Well, I guess that means that science is bad too.

  2. There is a good business oppertunity here by BondGamer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Someone should start copying all Zynga mobile titles. They already have done the research and figured out what are the best games to copy. You copy their games, make what you think are the best improvements, and reap all the profits. Call it Dream Tower.

    1. Re:There is a good business oppertunity here by Stormthirst · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The irony here is that:
      a) You'd probably make quite a profit
      b) You'd get sued by Zynga - and they'd win.

  3. oooooooh by unity100 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Removing copyright from the equation doesn't seem like it would help

    and why it would not help. the case here is, the big boy easily copying the little guy, but not allowing little guy to copy him through lawyer power thanks to copyrights. remove copyrights, and what would lawyers do ? there. you just liberated the little guy. and 7 billion little guys' innovation > any corporation.

    1. Re:oooooooh by JustSomeProgrammer · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You lost me. The big boy is copying the little guy. The little guy is the creator and has a game on market that the big boy just blantantly ripped off and marketed better to a wider area and with distribution channels the little guy cannot compete with. Removing the copyright would allow the little guy to... copy the game that the big guy copied from him?

      I could be missing something, but how is the situation better? Are you proposing that every living human on earth (7 billion little guys aka the population of the earth) will band together to take down the big boy when copyright is gone? Or are you saying that 7 billion people innovating separately will create more value than 3000 people teaming together (# of employees at Zynga)? That's of course assuming that people won't copy off of each other when there is no penalty to do so. I honestly don't think that something like the Pyramids, any building bigger than a hut, most games that require a diverse amount of skills to create, would be made without people teaming together. I'm pretty sure even in this case the game wasn't originally created by just one guy but by a small team of people with different skills coming together to make a better product. Some people are better creators than innovators. And innovators aren't always the greatest creators. And I have rarely seen someone with one of those skills being a great marketer.

    2. Re:oooooooh by neonKow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Absolutely would not help. Copyrights allow little guys to get into a business. Without copyright, this wouldn't be a leaked memo; it'd be a public memo. There would be no reason for Zynga not to copy indie games if not for copyrights, and they would have the resources to market their product far better than most indie producers will.

      Removing patents and copyrights is not the solution to people exploiting a loophole in the patent/copyright system.

  4. Re:aaaah by sakdoctor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And that's why there are vast swathes of laws that basically act as a substitute for ethics. Because companies have none.

  5. Re:It worked for Microsoft by Riceballsan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The difference between say windows and macOS, and even macOS and xerox, android and IOS, is still they all had unique features to a much larger degree. Zynga tower, quite litterally is a new skin on tiny tower, as farmville is a new skin on farmtown. There is a big difference between taking a general concept and adding features to it, and taking something and slightly sharpening the graphics.

  6. But in what field? by sakdoctor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Zynga's field is 'scummy games for retards'. Does it really matter if innovation in that field is stifled?
    Perhaps the parasite will kill it's hosts.

  7. Google + iPod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Of course, Google didn't just come out with a search engine that was a copy of the competition. They created the innovative PageRank algorithm, for which they were awarded a patent and were featured on the cover of Scientific American, which made their search engine much, much better than the competition (AltaVista.) Even today I am constantly surprised by how good Google is at figuring out what I'm searching for.

    The iPod too wasn't just an MP3 player. Competing MP3 players at the time had crap software that made it hard to load them up with music, poor UI, and either bad form factors (Nomad) or almost no storage (flash based devices.) What really made the iPod take off was iTMS.

    Remind me again how Mafia Wars was different from Mob Wars? Maybe some better graphics?

  8. What's wrong with that? by pruss · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When the Tetris folks try to squash all the Tetris clones, people here think that's bad, and we're right that it's bad to squash Tetris clones. There is no copyright on concepts. But the same applies here. It shouldn't matter too much if it's a big company copying the ideas of a small developer did or a small developer cloning the ideas of a big company. It would, of course, be polite for the big company to offer some sort of thanks, though.

    I looked at the side-by-side screenshots, and while the basic (uncopyrightable) gameplay ideas are very parallel and presumably copied, the graphics (which are copyrightable) are significantly different in style. And looking at coin amounts in the two screenshots, it looks like the rules weren't copied either (not that there would be anything wrong with copying rules, since there is no copyright on game rules, only on their written expression).

    Early in January, I released on Amazon's Appstore a popular app aimed at the Kindle Fire to dim the too-bright screen. About two weeks later, two others appeared. I don't know if there was copying of ideas going on. But even if there was, what's the big deal? The competing apps have somewhat different interfaces, and differ a little bit in feature set, and now consumers have more choice. And inspiration in respect of additional features can go both ways, and as a result all the apps can get better.

  9. Re:It worked for Microsoft by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Except that Apple didn't actually say that. They'll tell you that they built the best versions of those things, not the first.

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  10. Good advice for open source developers by JDG1980 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Pincus infamously told employees: 'I don't want f*cking innovation. You're not smarter than your competitor. Just copy what they do and do it until you get their numbers.'

    I'll probably get modded down for this, but I think the open-source movement would be well served if more OSS developers took this advice. Of course, it doesn't always apply, but if you're trying to compete with a dominant commercial product, don't think you know better than Microsoft or Adobe or Apple; just copy the damn thing. The GIMP crew thinks they know better than Adobe how to design a UI, and look at how far that has got them – the butt of every joke in the OSS world. People don't want GIMP, they want an open-source copy of Photoshop, so give that to them. Likewise, people don't want all the "innovative" desktop environments Gnome and KDE are coming out with; they want an open-source copy of the Windows UI. Or better yet an open-source version of Windows; it's amazing to me that ReactOS hasn't gotten more love, when it represents the best potential long-term method for open source to take over the desktop. I know it's not as rewarding for the coders, but if you actually care about the market share of OSS software, this is the way forward. Change the graphics as much as needed for copyright reasons, but copy the look and feel. After all, both Microsoft and Apple got their footholds the same way.