Did North Korea Conduct Secret Nuclear Tests?

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Did North Korea Conduct Secret Nuclear Tests?

Posted by Soulskill on Friday February 3, 2012 @07:25AM from the poking-around-inside-atoms dept.

gbrumfiel writes "In May of 2010, North Korea made the bizarre claim that it had achieved nuclear fusion. Many, many commentators (including faithful Slashdot readers) mocked the dear leader for his outlandish boast, but could there have been a kernel of truth in the claim? Apparently some odd radioactivity was spotted by detectors surrounding the North just days after the announcement. Now, a new analysis by a Swedish scientist suggests that the radiation may have leaked from covert experiments into boosting fission warheads. The evidence is tentative at best, and many are skeptical, but it does seem that something odd was up on the Korean peninsula that spring."

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Easy fix. by grub · 2012-02-03 07:26 · Score: 0, Troll

1) Nuke the North
2) Blame it on fusion experimentation
3) ???
4) PROFIT!

--
Trolling is a art,
1. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 07:45 · Score: 1
  
  That and nuking North Korea would really upset China, and they have real nuclear weapons. Not to mention they hold like half the West's debt...
2. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 07:47 · Score: 0
  
  Hah, I'd like to see them try to collect.
3. Re:Easy fix. by ackthpt · 2012-02-03 07:51 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  1) Nuke the North
  2) Blame it on fusion experimentation
  3) ???
  4) PROFIT!
  Though I expect you are joking, I do expect the US and ROK have been exploring these options for years -- considering if it would work and how China would react. The North Korean leaders are clearly the most despicable exploiters of the human race the world has seen in generations, but China likes to have them as a buffer. Possibly also fearing the economy and military of a unified Korea.
  
  --
  
  A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
4. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 07:53 · Score: 1
  
  26% of the debt.
5. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 07:57 · Score: 0
  
  China would react by exporting even more lead and melamine tainted products (not to mention poison salt) for the US market in retaliation for the US sending China nuclear dust.
6. Re:Easy fix. by CanHasDIY · 2012-02-03 07:58 · Score: 2
  
  Hah, the largest nuclear stockpile on the planet would like to see them try to collect.
  FTFY.
  
  --
  An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
7. Re:Easy fix. by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2012-02-03 08:03 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  That made sense 20 years ago, but China being afraid of a unified Korea, is like the US being afraid of a unified Dutch Antillies.
  
  --
  Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
8. Re:Easy fix. by tmosley · 2012-02-03 08:14 · Score: 0, Offtopic
  
  No, I don't think you would. I don't think you would like to see what would happen should they so much as stop extending us credit.
  
  Look around your workstation and try to find something not made in China. Now imagine that everything that was made in China was suddenly gone. Go to the store, and all the made in China stuff is gone from there too. Think about what will happen to the prices of the remaining goods.
9. Re:Easy fix. by Dahamma · 2012-02-03 08:23 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Economically China doesn't want the competition that cheap North Korean labor combined with an already highly industrialized South Korea would bring.
  Militarily if you combined the armies of North and South Korea it would be the *second* largest by active personnel behind China (clearly behind US & Russia in technology, but not by as much as you'd think as the US provides a lot of hardware). If you combine their trained (active and reserve) military personnel, it absolutely dwarfs any other military besides Russia.
  That's plenty of reason for China not to want to see a unified democratic Korea...
10. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:30 · Score: 1
  
  You're missing the point. China isn't afraid that a unified Korea can impose its will upon China or threaten it militarily, it's afraid that a unified Korea means US troops on its border, rather than on the other side of North Korea.
11. Re:Easy fix. by EvilBudMan · 2012-02-03 08:31 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, that cold war thinking never goes away. Dang I miss it.
12. Re:Easy fix. by DigiShaman · 2012-02-03 08:37 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  China doesn't want a unified Korea for several reasons.
  1. China wants a pit bull keeping the US and allies from getting too close to its border.
  2. The fall of N. Korea would mean potentially millions of refugees flooding into China.
  3. China is no longer in the position to play in role of Good-Cop Bad-Cop. Geopolitically, it makes them look bad to not have a neighbor that's far worse.
  The fall of the N. Korea regime wouldn't be the end of the world. I doubt China would put up too much of a stink about it. But if given the option, China would rather have N. Korea to stick around a bit longer.
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
13. Re:Easy fix. by eth1 · 2012-02-03 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  1) Nuke the North
  2) Blame it on fusion experimentation
  3) ???
  4) PROFIT!
  Though I expect you are joking, I do expect the US and ROK have been exploring these options for years -- considering if it would work and how China would react. The North Korean leaders are clearly the most despicable exploiters of the human race the world has seen in generations, but China likes to have them as a buffer. Possibly also fearing the economy and military of a unified Korea.
  Can't you trace radioactive residue somehow (ratios of isotopes, or something like that) after the fact? That might make that scheme difficult unless we can get some of their own nuclear material to build the bomb out of.
14. Re:Easy fix. by demachina · 2012-02-03 08:48 · Score: 0, Offtopic
  
  It would suck for a while but it would probably be a huge win in the long run.
  It would be one of the few ways the U.S. could regain a manufacturing base. It is nearly impossible for a country to stay solvent for the long run with the massive current accounts deficit the U.S. is running, Yea there would be short term pain until the U.S. rebuilt its industrial base along with probably rebuilding it other cheap places like Mexico or South America. It would be kind of win to get the manufacturing base closer to the U.S. whatever because as fossil fuel prices explode so do shipping costs.
  All things considered a quick crisis would be better than maintaining the status quo which will inevitably lead to a U.S. default, a dollar collapse and truly massive upheaval in the U.S. and in the rest of the world.
  Either the U.S. needs to return to running trade surpluses or its going to have to go old school and use its massive military to plunder the rest of the world. Squandering nearly a trillion a year on your military and producing nothing but failed money sinks like Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan has to be some of the most flawed strategic thinking in history.
  
  --
  @de_machina
15. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 09:06 · Score: 0
  
  Look around your workstation and try to find something not made in China.
  
  That was easy. I've got one of these.
  
  Now imagine that everything that was made in China was suddenly gone. Go to the store, and all the made in China stuff is gone from there too.
  
  Woot!!!! About time!
  
  Think about what will happen to the prices of the remaining goods.
  I'm loving it. This quality of stuff is worth paying a little extra for!
  *poof* Drat. Just a dream. *sigh*
16. Re:Easy fix. by tnk1 · 2012-02-03 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  There is no doubt that there are plans a nuclear exchange with North Korea, although they are more likely based on the original situation in the 50s and 60s where the NK army was both much larger and not quite as obsolete in comparison to the SK and US armies. The Joint Staff probably has plans on fighting a war with Canada, if only as an exercise. Of course plans are one thing, mobilization to make those plans even feasible is another.
  I'd say that there is a set of plans for a nuclear strike on NK that probably make use of some tactical nukes based on carrier aircraft for busting a massed NK offensive, and if needed, probably some plans to hit Pyongyang with a strategic weapon from a ballistic missile sub if NK goes all nuts and starts trying to throw it's one or two usable nukes at other people. None of those plans would be very high probability as the SK government might prefer a long, hard fight or even possibly surrender to having even part of the peninsula irradiated and it is doubtful that the US would launch without the SK government approving it.
17. Re:Easy fix. by g0bshiTe · 2012-02-03 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  No it wouldn't. Considering what China now has in industrial production, they really aren't looking to "make any waves" for themselves. In fact the their support has been waning. http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2011/12/20/chinas-stake-in-a-stable-north-korea/
  
  It seems the Chinese would like to back them, but stay under the rest of the worlds radar while doing so. Should North Korea launch a missile into Seoul like they promised this year over the "Christmas Tree Dispute". http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16129633
  
  Should they actually follow through with their threats how fast do you think China would be to say "you guys are on your own".
  
  --
  I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
18. Re:Easy fix. by g0bshiTe · 2012-02-03 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  It would mean that production would do one of two things.
  
  Either A) return to this country, or most likely B) move to the next cheapest country that could produce it.
  
  --
  I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
19. Re:Easy fix. by YrWrstNtmr · 2012-02-03 09:49 · Score: 1
  
  Hah, the largest nuclear stockpile on the planet would like to see them try to collect.
  FTFY.
  If you are referring to the US, it is actually, the second largest nuclear stockpile.
20. Re:Easy fix. by tmosley · 2012-02-03 09:52 · Score: 0
  
  Wow, you really must hate poor people, having fantasies of raising prices on the things they need.
21. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 09:58 · Score: 0
  
  The North Korean leaders are clearly the most despicable exploiters of the human race the world has seen in generations study up on the khmer rouge
22. Re:Easy fix. by MaWeiTao · 2012-02-03 10:00 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I don't know if those reasons are accurate. These are the issues I see for China with a unified Korea.
  1. Think back on Germany's unification. A unified Korea will become even more of an economic powerhouse. With unification South Korea would now have a massive untapped resource in the north. For example, why outsource manufacturing as they've been doing when they now can make stuff domestically for cheap. Also imagine the massive amount of investment the north is going to enjoy. Koreans have little need for Chinese goods, relatively speaking. I'm not sure with the NK mindset will be, but South Koreans are very nationalist.
  2) An economically prosperous country will now exist on China's border. Refugees are not the problem. If anything, Chinese will probably be flocking across the border for opportunities. Sure, China's economy is burgeoning, but that growth is not uniform and it certainly not the case in that corner of China.
  3) A strong American ally now shares a border with China. This one is obvious.
  Everything thing else is a non-issue. I'm pretty sure North Korea gives China constant headaches, but they'll never acknowledge that. I don't really see what strategic benefit they offer China beyond providing a buffer hundreds of miles wide. They definitely provide no economic value, although I'm sure what little gets into NK is Chinese made. That likely wont continue with a unified nation.
23. Re:Easy fix. by Dynedain · 2012-02-03 11:00 · Score: 2
  
  Militarily if you combined the armies of North and South Korea it would be the *second* largest by active personnel behind China...
  That's like saying the Germans and the British in WW2 had a huge combined military.
  The only reason why the Korean militaries are that large is because they are strategically sized against each other. If Korea was unified, you would probably see massive reductions in troop counts.
  When the US was in a civil war, we had an enormous combined military... because there were two of them fighting each other.
  China probably doesn't care all that much about whether Korea is unified. What China does care about is a stable government with whoever shares their border. If the NK government fell, there would be millions of refugees crossing into China almost immediately.
  
  --
  I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
24. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 11:03 · Score: 0
  
  Yet, it is would almost certainly be by far the most effective if put into use, due to superior delivery technologies.
  (FYI: Peak stockpile of the US was ~32,000 warheads, soviets had ~45,000. I don't even want to know how many they've lost or forgotten about at this point.)
25. Re:Easy fix. by Dahamma · 2012-02-03 11:49 · Score: 1
  
  That's like saying the Germans and the British in WW2 had a huge combined military.
  Yeah, and after WWII they joined forces to dominate the European economy together - I'm sure Russia before the fall of the USSR had wished it had been able to keep West Germany under its thumb instead of joining NATO. China clearly relishes their position as North Korea's closest (and almost only) ally, and use that leverage constantly when negotiating in the UN on Asian politics.
  But the point was comparing Korea to the Dutch Antilles is silly. Korea is a major military power, no matter how it became that way, and as you said yourself, a unification of Korea would cause a lot of worry and headache for China (probably a bit more than if Aruba unified with St. Martin).
26. Re:Easy fix. by interkin3tic · 2012-02-03 12:14 · Score: 1
  
  China being afraid of a unified Korea, is like the US being afraid of a unified Dutch Antillies.
  Well, we don't want them to unify the Caribbean tourism cartel. If they gain control, they'll lower prices, then no one is going to want to go to Hawaii. We might lose our domestic competitive edge on drinks with umbrellas in them.
27. Re:Easy fix. by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:22 · Score: 1
  
  So? we would be fine in about a year.
  Some reaming good would go up. Some electronics wouldn't be easy to get for a while.
  We would still have food, gas, cars, electricity, all the stuff we currently have.
  Hell, it might be good for us.
  Now imagine Chine getting it's oil and food imports cut. It would implode.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
28. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 12:23 · Score: 0
  
  No one expects the Dutch Antilles.
29. Re:Easy fix. by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:26 · Score: 1
  
  need? no. Food, water, shelter, currently owned electronics, transportation, entertainment.
  So, what need? do people needs an iPhone? xbox? new computer?
  hmm, clothing would rise about 25%..maybe.
  I
  m seriously thinking of anything poor people NEED that would become unavailable for the short term?
  OTOH, if that means all those toys get made here, then the poor people would get living wage JOBS; which they needs.
  For the record, I have no problem paying 25% more for something knowing it's made in the US by a US company.
  The increased wage base would increase tax revenue and now there is more tax money.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
30. Re:Easy fix. by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:27 · Score: 1
  
  Not a lot of next cheapest countries that ALSO have the infrastructure and port access.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
31. Re:Easy fix. by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:29 · Score: 1
  
  I suspect the US has ran that scenario, as is the job of the military. I doubt it's on the table and an actual response.
  Bad PR, long term damage to neighboring countries. for what? nothing we can't do with convention air forces.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
32. Re:Easy fix. by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:30 · Score: 1
  
  ALrge armies doesn't mean good armies, and it doesn't mean 'win'.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
33. Re:Easy fix. by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:32 · Score: 1
  
  1) Japan
  2) Why?
  3) Why do you think people can only watch one country at a time?
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
34. Re:Easy fix. by tmosley · 2012-02-03 12:59 · Score: 1
  
  Awesome, so you want to bring the standard of living down to somewhere around Central American levels, where people can only afford what they "need".
  
  You should join the Mitt Romney campaign.
35. Re:Easy fix. by Dahamma · 2012-02-03 13:40 · Score: 1
  
  When you have 20,000,000 heavily armed troops (and enough missiles - conventional, nuclear, and/or chemical - to more or less obliterate each other's capitals) supplied with modern equipment by Russia, China, and the US separated by about 2 miles of DMZ, no one's going to win...
36. Re:Easy fix. by ShieldW0lf · 2012-02-03 13:46 · Score: 2
  
  South Korea is the new Hong Kong, and it provides a place to deal with the west while North Korea provides a buffer zone to prevent cultural influence. The leadership in China and the western nations all like the situation.
  
  --
  -1 Uncomfortable Truth
37. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 14:26 · Score: 0
  
  Yes the whole 2 ICMB silos they have vs the 10 or so China possess.
38. Re:Easy fix. by Subm · 2012-02-03 14:57 · Score: 1
  
  For a quick understanding of North Korea from a strategic perspective, here is an insightful series on North Korean strategy by an American physicist and business strategist/entrepreneur who visited: http://joshuaspodek.com/north-korea-strategy-preview. It clarifies a lot of why things are the way they are there.
  Also this book, based on that series.
39. Re:Easy fix. by wasme · 2012-02-03 14:59 · Score: 2
  
  I don't think that's really China's view.
  The Wikileaks cables have included suggestions that Bejing is willing to accept a unified Korea under the South's government
  China is also seriously concerned about an influx of refugees should North Korea 'collapse'.
  And that's really everybody's concern. North Korea can't be allowed to simply 'collapse'. (It really already has collapsed economiclly but somehow manages to soldier on politically and socially.) There is too much military hardware there. There are too many people there. It would be a mess for everyone in the region (China, Russia, South Korea, Japan).
  But there are several realities in the way of unification:
  1) The Northern elites don't want it. This is really the biggest problem because until you can get the North to agree to unification there will be no unification. It's essentially impossible to forcedly unify the country. The people of the North have been so indoctrinated to fear everyone from outside the country. And the North's army remains powerful enough to cause so much destruction - not just to the North but to the South as well - that invasion is simply a no-go. You must somehow convince the rulers of the North to give up control to the South.
  2) Unification would ruin the South. Unification is expensive. And it takes a long time. You don't just declare a country unified and all is good. You have to build up the poorer partner and work on social unification as well.
  The unification of Germany cost upwards of $1.9 TRILLION. And West Germany was a lot richer than South Korea is. And East Germany wasn't nearly as poor as North Korea is. And socially there is still a gap between former East and West Germans. It will take another few generations to create real social unification.
  A similar lesson can be learned by looking at Yemen, which was separated between North and South between the end of WWI until 1990. Yet after declaring unification the social separation between the peoples of the two former nations remained and resulted in civil war and unrest which really still continues today. (Equally note that both North and South Yemen were extremely poor nations, which made unification difficult economiclly as well.)
  Really, the best scenario would be for the Northern elites to liberalize - open their economy bit by bit and reveal the truth about the rest of the world to their people bit-by-bit. Spend less on the military and more on developing the country - education, infrastructure, and a Chinese-style economic modernization. Then, as the North slowly climbs out of poverty and absolute self-imposed social isolation then maybe in a few decades unification will look more and more realistic.
  And really that's what everyone wants. Everyone outside of the Northern elites that is.
  There had been some hope that after Kim Jong-il died that his successor would be more open to the rest of the world, but that seems not to be the case.
40. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 15:03 · Score: 0
  
  Why would you nuke the best Korea?
41. Re:Easy fix. by definate · 2012-02-03 16:40 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, you've got a point. The US should figure out some way to fire them from their submarines, drop them from their planes, and similar! I don't know why they haven't thought about this before?
  
  --
  This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
42. Re:Easy fix. by getkashyap · 2012-02-03 16:46 · Score: 0
  
  China is a net EXPORTER of food. Not everyone has to import most of their food, you tool !
  
  --
  Yeah, whatever!!!
43. Re:Easy fix. by Mr.+Lwanga · 2012-02-03 18:00 · Score: 1
  
  Forget China, South Korea doesn't want unification because they would end up paying the bill. The unification of East and West Germany did not go that well in the beginning and North Korea does not come close to East Germany.
  OTOH, if North and South do reunite, Scott Evil (aka Kim jong Un) wouldn't be so ronery.
44. Re:Easy fix. by crutchy · 2012-02-03 18:13 · Score: 1
  
  Hah, the largest nuclear stockpile on the planet would like to see them try to collect.
  what's Russia got to do with this?
45. Re:Easy fix. by crutchy · 2012-02-03 18:15 · Score: 1
  
  china doesn't use silos... they use bunkers to store and trucks to deploy (Russia does the same). mobile target makes them harder to track/disable.
46. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 18:19 · Score: 0
  
  South Korea will have a very hard time paying for modernizing the North. There are whole swathes of the northern population that are malnourished, uneducated, and completely dependent on the government to survive. Not to mention the severe shortage in infrastructure in the North.
  The Germany example is similar, but the difference is a matter of degree, and it's a big one. East Germany still provided an educated population, and it had a relatively strong industry compared to other Soviet block countries, and a relatively small population. East Germany's population was one third of West Germany's, and it's per capita GDP was a quarter of the West's.
  Compare this with Korea. The North's per captia is less than 5% of South Korea's per capita. The yearly GDP growth of South Korea is larger than the North's GDP. North Korea also has half of the South's population, and a faster growth rate than the South. West Germany spent $2 trillion in subsidies trying to help East Germany catch up, and it's still a work in progress. East and West Germany had had a long trade history. North and South Korea not so much.
  The refugee problem is a very real, very big one, and one of China's public concerns. Having an American ally right on it's border is another, and it also gives China a bargaining chip to use with the Americans (something to threaten with, or something to trade). Now that Obama has publicly redirected American foreign policy back to Asia, China is wary of losing any friend it has in the region, even though they are a constant source of headaches.
  I really doubt China is worried about the economic competition, and it wouldn't interere with China's development anyway (everyone keeps treating the global economy as a zero sum game, it isn't, everyone can grow together, and have). And South Korea would have to divert enormous amounts of resources to restore North Korea to somewhat of a semeblance of ROK. Don't assume that unification means instantaneous prosperity for everyone involved. Things will probably be chaotic, trick, and expensive.
47. Re:Easy fix. by CAIMLAS · 2012-02-03 20:30 · Score: 1
  
  there would be millions of refugees crossing into China almost immediately.
  So? This is China we're talking about. People are saying that NK is the biggest exploiter of humanity out there, but these people must not be paying attention.
  China would put these people to work making sweaters, and/or use them for cattle feed if they've already been exhausted as slave labor. Chances are, though, they're healthier than most of their citizens and with a little rice will last at least as long as a native Chinaman.
  
  --
  ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
48. Re:Easy fix. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-04 05:01 · Score: 0
  
  well done, sir.
Not only... by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-02-03 07:32 · Score: 5, Funny

Not only did North Korea manage to produce a Nuclear Warhead- but the late Kim Jong himself put it together using only a paper clip, a mashed potato and a bucket of play-doh.
What it takes the West billions of $ and many top scientists, North Korea can accomplish with just a Kim and a few house-hold supplies. Incidentally, Kim Jong Il, invented the mashed potato. Just a little known factoid.

--
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
1. Re:Not only... by SJHillman · 2012-02-03 07:49 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Every character ever played by Richard Dean Anderson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone or Chuck Norris was actually based on Jim Kong Il. There was one time his paper clip snapped in fear while building a nuclear warhead, so Kim Jong Il roundhouse-kicked it. This caused the warhead to go off. Fortunately for us, he was able to subdue the nuclear explosion and stuff it back into the warhead. This is where refurbished nukes comes from.
2. Re:Not only... by wiredog · 2012-02-03 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  So he's MacGyver?
  
  --
  
  Best Slashdot Co
3. Re:Not only... by slashmojo · 2012-02-03 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  I always wondered where Macgyver ended up..
4. Re:Not only... by ackthpt · 2012-02-03 07:55 · Score: 2
  
  Not only did North Korea manage to produce a Nuclear Warhead- but the late Kim Jong himself put it together using only a paper clip, a mashed potato and a bucket of play-doh.
  What it takes the West billions of $ and many top scientists, North Korea can accomplish with just a Kim and a few house-hold supplies. Incidentally, Kim Jong Il, invented the mashed potato. Just a little known factoid.
  Sorry, but you're mixing him up with Valdimir "I'm a Rocketman" Putin, who did this on his break between test driving a new F1 car from Lada and climbing K2.
  Kim Jong-Il would have willed it into being, because he's a god.
  
  --
  
  A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
5. Re:Not only... by forkfail · 2012-02-03 08:13 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Kim Jong Il looking at it or it didn't happen.
  
  --
  Check your premises.
6. Re:Not only... by silverspell · 2012-02-03 08:31 · Score: 2
  
  Every character ever played by Richard Dean Anderson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sylvester Stallone or Chuck Norris was actually based on Jim Kong Il.
  Yes, quite a media-friendly family. One of his brothers had a movie franchise, and another got a real sweetheart deal with Nintendo. Ever since he married that Korean woman, though, he's been keeping a low profile.
7. Re:Not only... by g0bshiTe · 2012-02-03 09:38 · Score: 1
  
  Everyone knows it was created in Aperature Labs created them. http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/plush_glados_potato.jpg
  
  --
  I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
8. Re:Not only... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 09:42 · Score: 1
  
  There an old saying: "Never attribute to malice that which is explained by North Korea."
9. Re:Not only... by interkin3tic · 2012-02-03 12:17 · Score: 1
  
  the late Kim Jong himself put it together using only a paper clip, a mashed potato and a bucket of play-doh
  That's misleading. The play-doh was just because he got bored while making the bomb.
10. Re:Not only... by CAIMLAS · 2012-02-03 20:36 · Score: 1
  
  Chuck Norris was unable to comment, but his media representative assures us he has no twin Korean brother, but he's comfortable enough being awesome to allow them to borrow his for a while for the purposes of world peace and/or annihilation. Just as long as it's awesome.
  
  --
  ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
11. Re:Not only... by dudpixel · 2012-02-03 22:55 · Score: 1
  
  the late Kim Jong himself put it together using only a paper clip, a mashed potato and a bucket of play-doh
  That's misleading. The play-doh was just because he got bored while making the bomb.
  I heard it was the other way round...
  
  --
  This seemed like a reasonable sig at the time.
12. Re:Not only... by bryan1945 · 2012-02-04 00:07 · Score: 1
  
  He also took that nuke and dunked it in a full court jump. Before scoring a 54 under par on Augusta.
  
  --
  Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by Sir_Sri · 2012-02-03 07:35 · Score: 3, Informative

Given they already have a covert nuclear programme doing covert experiments isn't that much of a shock. But really, everything these guys do is odd to some degree, I mean, they have a leader who was born in any of 1982, 83 or 84 and no one seems quite clear as to which. Or why they would lie about it.
It's not even clear who these outlandish lies are for, which is what makes the whole thing odd. Even if it's just misdirection to confuse anyone trying to find out the truth that doesn't make it any less odd.
1. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by azadrozny · 2012-02-03 07:47 · Score: 0
  
  Nothing odd here. The ages of Chinese gymnasts change all the time.
2. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by localman57 · 2012-02-03 07:50 · Score: 2
  
  Really? I heard that earlier this year Kim Jong Il's age stopped changing...
  
  http://articles.cnn.com/2011-12-18/asia/world_asia_north-korea-leader-dead_1_state-tv-reports-north-korean-leader-kim-jong?_s=PM:ASIA
3. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by mehrotra.akash · 2012-02-03 08:01 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  I think it would be more odd if someones age remained constant
4. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by ZeroSumHappiness · 2012-02-03 08:06 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  One reason for the inaccuracy in date of birth is that East Asia has a different method of reckoning age. As such, a person's "age" can be represented by a number up to two more than it would be in the West. So if you're told that someone is "23" and you don't know their birth date and don't know if that's the "traditional" age or their "Western" age then the best you can do is narrow it down to one of three years.
  
  Also, specifically in China, but to an extent the rest of East Asia, there's value in your Zodiac sign, which is determined by your year of birth. So there /would/ be incentive to lie about it anyway.
  
  So yeah, ignore other cultures and it's really freaking weird and unreasonable.
5. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:16 · Score: 0
  
  Lying about your Zodiac sign is really freaking weird and unreasonable.
6. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by azadrozny · 2012-02-03 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  Ha! Age, birth year, its all the same, right? I bet in North Korea they could make your age remain constant :)
7. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 09:12 · Score: 0
  
  "Cultural" is not a catch-all justification for "reasonable," similar to "traditional."
8. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by GonzoPhysicist · 2012-02-03 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  You bring up a good point, so does he claim to be a dog, pig, or rat?
  
  --
  horror vacui
9. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 10:36 · Score: 1
  
  Westerners seem to accept a Jewish dude who was born from a virgin, talked to satan up on a mountain somewhere, claimed to be a son of god *and* god at the same time, died, and came back three days later just fine.
10. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by Sedated2000 · 2012-02-03 11:24 · Score: 1
  
  I think I remember reading about how they wanted his birth year to sync up with either his father's or Kim Il Sung's in order to preserve some of the cult of personality they have.
11. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:34 · Score: 1
  
  In his defense, the leader was quite young when he was born.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
12. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:35 · Score: 1
  
  he stopped living, not aging.
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
13. Re:what in north korea isn't 'odd'? by Sir_Sri · 2012-02-03 14:35 · Score: 1
  
  Don't misunderstand "I was talking to a guy on the street and wasn't quite sure" with "The son of the leader of a country, who is now the leader of that country", and with whom several states have relations, including china....
  My father was born in india somewhere around 1941. No one is sure when, and my grandfather only passed away last year so he had the last 70 years in which he could never remember exactly, so we don't know. Back then in india you used a Lunar calendar if you were not attached to the So you pick a date and roll with it as the 'official' date and hope it is close enough. But that is a relatively unimportant guy in an unimportant town in the 1940's. With the leader of north korea you'd think he'd have an official birthday (even if it's in a lunar calendar) somewhere that someone would know.
  I grant that they may have never bothered to publicize it, because as something like the 3rd son of the dear leader might not have been considered all that important to hereditary succession they didn't want to aggrandize him early and risk a coup or something. But that whole situation goes to my point of "odd".
Seismic evidence? by Bradmont · 2012-02-03 07:36 · Score: 5, Informative

Nuclear detonations create telltale signatures on seismometers, which makes it pretty much impossible to perform nuclear tests without being noticed by the international community. The article even admits this:

Others remain deeply sceptical that the tests took place at all. Most troubling is the lack of any seismic vibrations to support the radioisotope data, according to Ola Dahlman, a retired geophysicist who spent years working with the test-ban group's detection network. The Korean peninsula is wired to spot the tiniest shake from a nuclear explosion, Dahlman says. "It should have been able to see something."
1. Re:Seismic evidence? by Sulphur · 2012-02-03 07:45 · Score: 1
  
  Nuclear detonations create telltale signatures on seismometers, which makes it pretty much impossible to perform nuclear tests without being noticed by the international community. The article even admits this:
  
  Others remain deeply sceptical that the tests took place at all. Most troubling is the lack of any seismic vibrations to support the radioisotope data, according to Ola Dahlman, a retired geophysicist who spent years working with the test-ban group's detection network. The Korean peninsula is wired to spot the tiniest shake from a nuclear explosion, Dahlman says. "It should have been able to see something."
  It was conducted on the Far Side of the moon; right near the Nazi base.
2. Re:Seismic evidence? by localman57 · 2012-02-03 07:46 · Score: 2
  
  Nuclear detonations create telltale signatures on seismometers, which makes it pretty much impossible to perform nuclear tests without being noticed by the international community.
  
  You haven't been keeping up with your N.K. press releases. In 2006 Kim Jong Il personally invented a device which teleports earthquake energy from one place to another.
  
  The massive quake and resulting Tsunami that hit Japan was a result of a of a Nuclear Test, the seismic energy of which in turn was teleported out of North Korea. Jong Il was later quoted as saying "It worked really well. It's just that my aim was off, because I was soooooooo drunk. Otherwise South Korea would have been in some real serious shit."
3. Re:Seismic evidence? by ackthpt · 2012-02-03 08:00 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Nuclear detonations create telltale signatures on seismometers, which makes it pretty much impossible to perform nuclear tests without being noticed by the international community. The article even admits this:
  
  Others remain deeply sceptical that the tests took place at all. Most troubling is the lack of any seismic vibrations to support the radioisotope data, according to Ola Dahlman, a retired geophysicist who spent years working with the test-ban group's detection network. The Korean peninsula is wired to spot the tiniest shake from a nuclear explosion, Dahlman says. "It should have been able to see something."
  A mate of mine performed this work in the late 80's and early 1990's, at a location I'll not divulge, but suffice to say the sensitivity of their monitoring equipment was completely saturated by the 1989 Loma Prieta Earthquake in Northern California. They could track every little tremor around the world, including mining explosions and pinpoint the location with great accuracy. This was part of Nuclear Test Ban Treaty adherence monitoring.
  
  --
  
  A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
4. Re:Seismic evidence? by wisnoskij · 2012-02-03 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  While Nuclear testing implies gigantic explosions of the kind to produce seismic evidence I imagine you can achieve nuclear fission without producing a giant bang.
  For example, I think nuclear power plants use fission to create power and do so without seismic evidence or gigantic explosions.
  And I am sure that it is possible to explode a small enough amount of the stuff to not produce noticeable seismic evidence.
  
  --
  Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
5. Re:Seismic evidence? by JSBiff · 2012-02-03 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  "And I am sure that it is possible to explode a small enough amount of the stuff to not produce noticeable seismic evidence."
  I generally agree with your post - you can do non-explosive nuclear testing. However, I'm not so sure about the bit quoted above.
  It's my understanding, though I may be wrong, that in order to get an explosion, at all, you need a minimum amount of plutonium or uranium, and that the minimum amount still produces a heck of a bang. Further, if N. Korea is experimenting with fusion boosted fission, that bang would be amplified quite a bit for even the smallest possible bomb, I think. Again, I'm not sure, but that's sort of my impression.
6. Re:Seismic evidence? by WastedMeat · 2012-02-03 08:32 · Score: 1
  
  It is true that you need a minimum critical mass to initiate the chain reaction, but no law guarantees that all of that material has to fission before the device blows itself apart, into a several sub-critical pieces.
7. Re:Seismic evidence? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2012-02-03 08:53 · Score: 1
  
  Nuclear detonations create telltale signatures on seismometers, which makes it pretty much impossible to perform nuclear tests without being noticed by the international community. The article even admits this:
  
  Others remain deeply sceptical that the tests took place at all. Most troubling is the lack of any seismic vibrations to support the radioisotope data, according to Ola Dahlman, a retired geophysicist who spent years working with the test-ban group's detection network. The Korean peninsula is wired to spot the tiniest shake from a nuclear explosion, Dahlman says. "It should have been able to see something."
  Reminds me of one of our famous theatre comedies, where a character - an apprentice - "waited until his master fell asleep and then he started silently chiseling the wall." (he has a suspicion that the master had bodies of young girls immured in his basement)
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
8. Re:Seismic evidence? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 09:50 · Score: 0
  
  Exactly! So which recent seismic event was used as cover for the thermonuclear test?
9. Re:Seismic evidence? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 13:33 · Score: 0
  
  I'm going to guess he worked out of Patrick AFB in Cocoa Beach, as that's where most of the USNDS operates out of. But yeah, if an H-bomb went off, it WOULD be detected.
10. Re:Seismic evidence? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 13:51 · Score: 0
  
  There was an interesting study done by the US and UK, I believe in the 70's or 80's, when they were trying to work out how to verify adherence to any test treaties. One of the concerns was whether or not a sufficiently sensitive seismometer could reliably detect an underground test. Of course as we now know it can. However, a side component of the investigation was whether or not it would be possible to disguise the test, to reduce the apparent effective yield. I wish I could remember the name of the test, but the UK demonstrated that a properly designed chamber could mask a large [nuclear] explosion and make it appear much smaller. I've long wondered whether NK applied this concept to make their announced nuclear test seem like something much smaller than it actually was.
  Unfortunately when I try to search for this all I can find are articles about Tesla.
11. Re:Seismic evidence? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-04 08:21 · Score: 0
  
  Sensible nations test nukes underground, making some nice quakes in the process. Maybe north Korea does atmospheric testing to dampen the quakes? Wait for bad weather, so it won't be so obvious to satellites...
12. Re:Seismic evidence? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-04 22:47 · Score: 0
  
  Nuclear detonations create telltale signatures on seismometers
  Nobody ever said anything about any kind of detonation. +5 Insightful for making shit up? Oh yeah, this is slashdot.
Liberate N.Korea by gmuslera · 2012-02-03 07:36 · Score: 0

Now that they apparently have weapons of mass destruction they could be invaded, replaced their government with a pupp..., i mean, democratic leader, and put them in a modern world while oil or other natural resource is given to some friendly corporations. If you think you having a deja vu, dont worry, is just a glitch on the matrix.
1. Re:Liberate N.Korea by AnonyMouseCowWard · 2012-02-03 08:33 · Score: 0
  
  [...] they could be invaded, replaced their government with a pupp..., i mean, democratic leader, and put them in a modern world while oil or other natural resource is given to some friendly corporations.
  Too bad they don't have much oil, else you'd see one more "democratic" country.
2. Re:Liberate N.Korea by lennier · 2012-02-03 10:41 · Score: 1
  
  invaded, replaced their government with a pupp...
  A puppy government? Squeeee!
  
  --
  You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
Makes sense by G3ckoG33k · 2012-02-03 07:38 · Score: 0

It does make sense that the report should come from a Swedish scientist, for credibility.
It was probably planted. An American or South Korean scientist would not have gained the same credibility, even if they most likely have been in the knowing for very long.
Why Swedish? Well, Hans Blix (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Blix), who screwed Geogre Bush "the lesser", when they spoke of weapons of mass destruction was Swedish. That made Bush "the lesser" look like a cunt without a hole.
Now, another, albeit younger Swede may provide the small-dicked brat in charge of North Korea with a look like that one too.
1. Re:Makes sense by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 07:46 · Score: 1
  
  That's Hans Brix.
More like... by ackthpt · 2012-02-03 07:39 · Score: 4, Interesting

More like they had an accident and covered it up with "We make bomb for advancement of North Korean workers and great glory of Dear Leader"
IIRC there was a very large explosion of a train car which they were pretty hushed up about, apparently Dear Leader, who only trusted rail travel, was on his train and not too terribly far from the accident when it happened.
If this country didn't exist, with all its screwy behavior, Sci-Fi writers would have a tough time making it all up.

--

A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
1. Re:More like... by Bill,+Shooter+of+Bul · 2012-02-03 08:08 · Score: 2
  
  Maybe that would be due to the confusing habit of Sci-Fi writers only writing about Science Fiction. Tom Clancy might be able to do it though
  
  --
  Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
the wrong experiment by w.hamra1987 · 2012-02-03 07:41 · Score: 1

It was fission, what they actually achieved, someone, somewhere, in their secret underground cavern labratories, mislabelled the experiment... They just couldnt admit the mistake and relabel it again.

--
my sig pwns your sig
1. Re:the wrong experiment by localman57 · 2012-02-03 08:11 · Score: 1
  
  That's not what I heard. I heard that the whole thing was based on an NSA audio interception. Apparently, Kim was getting ready to go on a picnic, and was packing a bunch of beer for the trip.
  
  Kim Jong Un (by telephone): Hey, dad, you got the beer? Don't put it in the old Cooler. It doesn't stay cold. Put it in the new Coleman we imported last week. I asked your butler to fill the bottom with water before he put it into the walk-in freezer yesterday. Is it ready to go?
  
  Kim Jong Il: Yes. Thanks to the help of my friend, we have new cooler frozen.
  
  NSA just heard the last part, and went ape-shit. It's just the way it sounds when he says it.
Nuclear Fusion is 'Easy' by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 07:42 · Score: 0

Sure, why not? Nuclear fusion is 'easy' if you put more energy into the system than you get out. The experiment has been performed plenty of times around the world.
A sustained, energy-positive fusion reaction on the other hand...
1. Re:Nuclear Fusion is 'Easy' by medv4380 · 2012-02-03 07:57 · Score: 2
  
  Oh, come on we get a lot more energy out of Fusion then we put in. It's making it not explode that's the real trick.
2. Re:Nuclear Fusion is 'Easy' by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  I'm no physicist, but it occurs to me: Do stars even do energy-positive fusion? I mean, there's no one shooting energy into stars, obviously, but they are being acted on by gravity in a pretty significant way. Could it just be that gravity is providing the energy for fusion, with the heat/light total being less than that "input" by gravity?
3. Re:Nuclear Fusion is 'Easy' by ColdWetDog · 2012-02-03 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  I'm no physicist, but it occurs to me: Do stars even do energy-positive fusion? I mean, there's no one shooting energy into stars, obviously, but they are being acted on by gravity in a pretty significant way. Could it just be that gravity is providing the energy for fusion, with the heat/light total being less than that "input" by gravity?
  Let me Bing that for you.
  Now, don't do that again. If you can't figure out how to use the Internet, go back to Facebook where you belong.
  
  --
  Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
4. Re:Nuclear Fusion is 'Easy' by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 09:22 · Score: 0
  
  If you're gonna be snotty, it's important to at least be mildly clever or funny.
5. Re:Nuclear Fusion is 'Easy' by kenwd0elq · 2012-02-03 09:28 · Score: 1
  
  There has been speculation that some stars may oscillate between radiating energy generated by fusion, and radiating energy generated by gravitational collapse. It may even be that many stars wobble on the cusp of fusion and collapse; a star expands slightly due to the heat and pressure of fusion to the point that fusion no longer occurs, followed by a slight gravitational collapse until the core is dense enough to support fusion again. (Read the Vernor Vinge book "A Deepness in the Sky" http://www.amazon.com/Deepness-Sky-Vernor-Vinge/dp/0812536355/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1328304339&sr=1-1 for an extreme example.) The star's radiative output might vary only slightly between the phases.
  After all, most theories of how the Sun works suggest that we ought to be able to detect SOME solar neutrinos; what if the Sun is in the "collapse" phase just now, and the reason we can't detect the neutrinos is because there aren't any?
6. Re:Nuclear Fusion is 'Easy' by mister_playboy · 2012-02-03 09:55 · Score: 1
  
  After all, most theories of how the Sun works suggest that we ought to be able to detect SOME solar neutrinos; what if the Sun is in the "collapse" phase just now, and the reason we can't detect the neutrinos is because there aren't any?
  The issue of "missing" neutrinos was solved a decade ago, but at no point were detecting zero neutrinos, merely about 66% less than expected.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_neutrino_problem
  
  --
  Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
7. Re:Nuclear Fusion is 'Easy' by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:38 · Score: 2
  
  "Now, don't do that again. If you can't figure out how to use the Internet, go back to Facebook where you belong."
  Says the guy who 'Bings' things.
  Why don't you 'squirt' him a video?
  
  --
  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
yeah, 10,000 cold fusion cups by swschrad · 2012-02-03 07:46 · Score: 1

the measured energy produced was not quite enough to reanimate Dear Leader. next they will try adding a D-cell battery to the mix. assuming they can find one that hasn't corroded out.

--
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Fusion is easy by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 07:48 · Score: 2, Interesting

Fusion is easy. You can make fusion with a tabletop setup. Overunity is the hard part. Explosive fusion is also hard. It wouldn't surprise me if the dear leader made some bigass Farnsworth Fusors and ran them knowing that people would be monitoring. It's a cheap way to fuel this kind of speculation.
Hans Brix? Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 07:50 · Score: 5, Funny

Kim Jong Il: Hans Brix? Oh no! Oh, herro. Great to see you again, Hans!
Hans Blix: Mr. Il, I was supposed to be allowed to inspect your palace today, but your guards won't let me enter certain areas.
Kim Jong Il: Hans, Hans, Hans! We've been frew this a dozen times. I don't have any weapons of mass destwuction, OK Hans?
Hans Blix: Then let me look around, so I can ease the UN's collective mind. I'm sorry, but the UN must be firm with you. Let me in, or else.
Kim Jong Il: Or else what?
Hans Blix: Or else we will be very angry with you... and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.
Kim Jong Il: OK, Hans. I'll show you. Stand to your reft.
Hans Blix: [Moves to the left]
Kim Jong Il: A rittle more.
Hans Blix: [Moves to the left again]
Kim Jong Il: Good.
[Opens up trap, Hans falls in]
Oh! For crying out loud! by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 07:54 · Score: 0

I'm so ronerery...
everybody now!
Not a bizarre claim. by tragedy · 2012-02-03 07:56 · Score: 5, Insightful

Nuclear fusion is easy. Pretty much anyone can build a Farnsworth Fusor and there are all sorts of other ways to achieve fusion. Achieving net positive fusion isn't even that difficult for a country that already has fission-based atomic bombs. The problem is achieving net positive fusion that is stable, sustainable, and controlled.
The question asked by the story title: "did North Korea conduct secret nuclear tests?" has a simple answer. Yes. Of course they conducted secret nuclear tests. It's already public knowledge that they have a nuclear program. They also, like every nuclear power, keep the details hush hush. Therefore, secret nuclear tests.
1. Re:Not a bizarre claim. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:32 · Score: 0
  
  Pretty much anyone can build a Farnsworth Fusor
  But not everyone can build an engine that moves the universe around a stationary ship.
2. Re:Not a bizarre claim. by SpaceLifeForm · 2012-02-03 08:35 · Score: 1
  
  Sure they did. They also had a problem in the mid 90s when they had a Criticality Incident.
  Not purely public knowledge, known in military circles and other groups that monitor satellite intel.
  
  --
  You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
3. Re:Not a bizarre claim. by iggymanz · 2012-02-03 11:14 · Score: 1
  
  but a fusion bomb (significant energy yield from fusion) is hard to build. N. Korea doesn't have the means to do that. A boosted fission bomb is another matter, that just uses extra neutrons produced by fusion to induce more fissioning, but in those the fusion yield only contributes a percent or so to the yield of the bomb.
4. Re:Not a bizarre claim. by iggymanz · 2012-02-03 11:16 · Score: 1
  
  (while making a great boost in the fission yield)
5. Re:Not a bizarre claim. by tragedy · 2012-02-03 15:19 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, but a boosted fission bomb still achieves fusion and it's not a huge step from making a fission bomb to a boosted fusion bomb. I wasn't saying that they had a bomb from which most of the energy comes from fusion, just that it's not a bizarre claim for North Korea to say they've achieved some sort of fusion since teenagers manage it with old TV parts in their parents basements. I would say that a boosted fission bomb counts as net positive fusion also because, even if it does take more energy to cause the fusion than you get out of it, that energy is recouped in the giant explosion which is the actual point of the bomb so, in the final accounting, you get out more energy than you put in.
  Now, if North Korea were claiming to have net positive stable, controlled and sustainable fusion for power generation that would be something. Then you could maybe call the claims bizarre. Of course, despite the huge grain of salt you'd have to take the claims with, they still might be worth checking out.
6. Re:Not a bizarre claim. by cratermoon · 2012-02-03 17:30 · Score: 1
  
  If the source of the isotopes was a test -- and that's a big if -- a boosted fission weapon is a very good possibility. Going to a 'real' thermonuclear or 'hydrogen bomb' is a much bigger and less likely step. However, once a country has accomplished building a plain Trinity-style fission device, boosting with tritium or deuterium (or less commonly lithium-6 deuteride) is pretty straightforward if you have access to those materials.
  In addition, if the lower estimates of the yield of DPRK's two tests are taken a correct, at about 4kt, then a program that targets a boosted design makes a lot of sense, as it would produce weapon designs easily 10 times as powerful and with refinement up to 400kt yields.
7. Re:Not a bizarre claim. by uvajed_ekil · 2012-02-03 18:33 · Score: 1
  
  The question asked by the story title: "did North Korea conduct secret nuclear tests?" has a simple answer. Yes. Of course they conducted secret nuclear tests. It's already public knowledge that they have a nuclear program. They also, like every nuclear power, keep the details hush hush. Therefore, secret nuclear tests.
  Agreed. Of course they have done tests, have bombs, and have reactors, so radiation should not be unexpected in North Korea. But any mention of fusion related to this is absolutely absurd and unrelated (other than the Dear Leader's ridiculous claims, which he may not have understood anyway), so this story does not shed new light on anything and should never have been posted.
  
  --
  This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
8. Re:Not a bizarre claim. by tragedy · 2012-02-04 01:26 · Score: 1
  
  And, with modern philosophy on nuclear weapons, no-one really needs weapons bigger than that. It's much more efficient to use lots of smaller nuclear weapons than a few really big ones to achieve total destruction. If you actually want to take out the other countries hardened nuclear sites to prevent them from continuing to fire at you, you might want a bigger boom. If you just want to maintain a state of MAD, around 400-600 kilotons is ideal. Of course, you still need a delivery mechanism.
  The thing is, as much as people tried to portray Kim Jong Il as crazy, and he probably was in some ways, he wasn't the kind of crazy that kills himself willingly in a nuclear war. Maybe he believed his own press releases (which would make him pretty crazy), but he also liked to spend a lot of his time partying with blond Swedish prostitutes. That doesn't seem to fit with someone who wants to kill themselves over their principles, just as someone who wants to ride their success in controlling the country as long as they can. On the other hand, there are lots of cult leaders who were self-evidently cynical manipulators who only cared about fleecing their followers (for money and multiple "wives") who still ended up drinking the poisoned kool-aid along with everyone else. Maybe they built cages around themselves, or maybe they had some sort of religious doublethink going where they were cynical manipulators and true believers at the same time. So, I guess the fear always exists that North Korea would eventually use its nuclear weapons against someone.
9. Re:Not a bizarre claim. by tragedy · 2012-02-04 01:31 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, but even building a farnsworth fusor as a neutron source for experiments in their nuclear program would be "fusion related to this". A country with a nuclear weapons program experimenting with fusion is completely unsurprising. As has been pointed out in other posts, boosted fission weapons that use limited fusion as a neutron source are pretty much standard for nuclear weapons these days.
10. Re:Not a bizarre claim. by Hentes · 2012-02-04 03:43 · Score: 1
  
  I believe the real question is if they have hydrogen bombs or not. But you are right, achieving fusion does not necessarily mean that.
Test Chamber by Grindalf · 2012-02-03 07:57 · Score: 0

Comrades, the dangers of a resonance cascade scenario in this equation are infinitesimally small!

--
The purpose of existence is to make money.
1. Re:Test Chamber by JSBiff · 2012-02-03 08:27 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, yes, but we must definitely worry about the furrzzzle blartlebing schwizznuts.
Fusion....right by Nidi62 · 2012-02-03 07:59 · Score: 3, Interesting

That would explain why North Korea is one of the most brightly lit countries in the world. They have so much electricity available for everyone to use because they have harnessed nuclear fusion. But then, why does it look like this?

--
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
1. Re:Fusion....right by Keruo · 2012-02-03 08:19 · Score: 1
  
  Duh. Their fusion works with solar power..
  
  --
  There are no atheists when recovering from tape backup.
2. Re:Fusion....right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps they are a nation of dedicated astronomers
3. Re:Fusion....right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:28 · Score: 0
  
  Not only have they conquered nuclear fusion, but they've conquered light pollution as well. I wish my state looked like that at least one night a year.
4. Re:Fusion....right by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:36 · Score: 1
  
  that is a little mis-leading, as North Korea turns their generators off at night, which makes sense in a planned economy. North Korea is still a shit-hole, just saying that particular fact of no Night-time luminosity could be just as well a sign of a well adjusted society with happy members with regular sleep schedules and lack of wasted lamp post lights, etc, as a lot of Night-time luminosity could be taken as a sign of factory mills with rotating shifts, slave wages, where the beds are never cold, and a disruption of family and social life: a society on the way to spiritual death. correlate =!cosataion. rethink your priorities, night time economic activity disproportionately serves the very richs interests. If someone stock piles a ton of newspapers or hordes other things we call them crazy, but if someone stock piles more money then they could ever need we call them successful.
5. Re:Fusion....right by Nidi62 · 2012-02-03 08:50 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  just saying that particular fact of no Night-time luminosity could be just as well a sign of a well adjusted society with happy members with regular sleep schedules and lack of wasted lamp post lights, etc, as a lot of Night-time luminosity could be taken as a sign of factory mills with rotating shifts, slave wages, where the beds are never cold, and a disruption of family and social life: a society on the way to spiritual death.
  It's also a sign of a country that has bakeries that can have fresh bread ready for breakfast in the morning to feed the citizens, newspapers being printed and delivered to inform the citizens, as well as deliveries of fresh produce and manufactured goods that get consumed at a high rate by a citizenry with regular healthy diets and disposable income. But you're right; since North Korea has no night-time luminosity, I guess it is safe to assume that North Korea has neither of these things as well. Tell me, are they still making all of you people in Pyongyang mourn over "Dear Leader"'s death?
  
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  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
6. Re:Fusion....right by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  Invisible light.
  
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  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
7. Re:Fusion....right by khallow · 2012-02-03 19:00 · Score: 1
  
  which makes sense in a planned economy.
  Heh, one of the reasons planned economies fail so hard. Lots of things that don't make a lick of sense anywhere else, make sense in a planned economy.
  
  If someone stock piles a ton of newspapers or hordes other things we call them crazy, but if someone stock piles more money then they could ever need we call them successful.
  Society is not just about barely delivering what you need. It's also about being a vehicle for achieving your dreams. If someone wants to pile up a bunch of money into productive enterprises (they aren't typically sticking it in a mattress) and they aren't hurting people by doing so, then sure, society should help them to do that.
Secret Nuclear Tests? by wisnoskij · 2012-02-03 08:05 · Score: 1

"Secret Nuclear Tests" aka, they broadcast the event around the world but no one believed them.

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Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Comrade, how to fulfill the prophecy? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:06 · Score: 0
We've an important question: "how to accomplish the fullfilment of the prophecy when the man/woman abandons the Earth?".
1. 1. The "evil mission" rejects the "prophecy", it's violating the testaments written by ancient prophets many centuries ago.
2. 2. Or the "prophecy" rejects the "evil mission" (with its impredictable mortal consequences).
Why to put we in risk our lives when few individuals wanted evilnessly to success their own "evil mission" for their own private interests?.
JCPM: Oh! God mine! I'm here because i was assigned no another place than here, on this planet named "La Tierra".
Known for some time: by SmurfButcher+Bob · 2012-02-03 08:10 · Score: 4, Funny

N. Korea Detonates 40 Years Of GDP
http://www.theonion.com/articles/n-korea-detonates-40-years-of-gdp,2068/
"PYONGYANG, NORTH KOREA—A press release issued by the state-run Korean Central News Agency Monday confirmed that the Oct. 9 underground nuclear test in North Korea's Yanggang province successfully exploded the communist nation's total gross domestic product for the past four decades..."

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help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am
Comrade, i've seen a crown of lollipops. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:16 · Score: 0

Comrade, weeks ago, i got interestful information of the weird resonance that happened to my dream.
I've seen a crown of cream and liquid strawberry lollipops (corona de chupachups de nata y fresa liquida) after of the resulting nuclear detonation, possibly in the land of Canaan, and two important electro-executed but living witnesses were kneeling themselves to said crown.
As this image, http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3323/1258423867194.jpg but its crown is molecularly colored as a crown of cream and liquid strawberry lollipops, and it's very narrowed and very highest its trunk.
JCPM: a House of bones and skulls is generally not a sustainable place for living there.
Nukes by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:24 · Score: 0

N. Korea has nukes, Iran has nukes... If they didn't make them they bought or stole them..
Just close your eyes, ignore it and it will go away right? Or maybe we could just throw a bunch of money at it?
Yeah - read about Castle Bravo by JSBiff · 2012-02-03 08:24 · Score: 1

Yeah, in the Castle Bravo test, they got a *lot* more energy out - the bomb was 2.5 times more powerful than it was *designed* to be - and at 6 megatons, it was no small bomb to begin with. If that's not "Net Power", I don't know what is.
Secret? by xcfmx · 2012-02-03 08:25 · Score: 1

Were they secret if they told us and we chose not to believe them?
1. Re:Secret? by wisnoskij · 2012-02-03 11:04 · Score: 1
  
  I think there were "secrete" because that sounds more menacing.
  
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  Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
Newsworthy by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:40 · Score: 0

North Korea made (a) bizarre claim
STOP THE PRESSES!
on closing debts by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:41 · Score: 0

trying to welch on a debt seems more likely to cause the US to attack China than to dissuade them of the notion.
lol by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 08:49 · Score: 0

Anonymous!
Re:Gosh and what does that say about Americans by Nadaka · 2012-02-03 08:53 · Score: 1

I know for a fact that Japan, Korea, Central and South America have their own superhero comics, plus there is at least one being put out in Arabic countries.
Re:Gosh and what does that say about Americans by the+gnat · 2012-02-03 08:57 · Score: 1

Wow, someone's got an axe to grind...
a person who drooled while he watched these actors play super humans as part of a unique American culture (The rest of the world does not have super-hero style comics)
It may be unique American culture, but the rest of the world consumes it ferociously - Terminator 3 (the last movie starring Ahnuld, just before he became governor) made twice as much outside the US as domestically.
As far as indigenous culture goes, the Chinese have their share of cartoonish super-hero antics and over-the-top violence. Watch Jet Li's version of "Fist of Legend" (where the bad guys are Japanese, of course) and tell me he doesn't have super powers in that film. (It's actually a very enjoyable movie.) Or some of the old John Woo films: "Hard Boiled" makes the typical American badass cop movie look like "Terms of Endearment."
Something doesn't add up... by DerekLyons · 2012-02-03 09:04 · Score: 1

Dr. De Geer is using evidence of a fission reaction to support the conclusion that a fusion reaction occurred? That makes no sense whatsoever. I don't think a near fizzle/low yield detonation can even induce fusion in the first place.
Evidence of a low yield uranium blast would make me think of testing a new weapons design and/or a composite core, not boosted fission.
1. Re:Something doesn't add up... by geekoid · 2012-02-03 12:41 · Score: 1
  
  Its because of the typo;
  While trying to invent a Dear Leader' Soda, they had a FIZZION event.
  
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  The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
Nuclear test "accidents". by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 09:34 · Score: 0

I am surprised there hasn't already been nuclear testing "accidents" in North Korea and Iran, among other places.
Re:Gosh and what does that say about Americans by SJHillman · 2012-02-03 10:27 · Score: 1

Actually, I never cared for most movies or shows by those actors... MacGyver was one of the best... you know, the guy that abhors guns and wouldn't shoot somebody to save his life.
While I realize it's nice and warm, you may want to get your head out of your ass once in a while.
Re:Easy fix. Not by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 10:55 · Score: 0

Consider that China would love to send about 400,000,000 muslims out to the west and that N Korea is a puppet on China's other hand, any possible end result would be worse than any human's imagination can fathom with a cup of coffee in their hand. That is like asking {everyone} in the world to commit suicide at precisely the exact time. Problem on planet earth solved. No one wins, except for the 500,000,000 sneaky cheaters.
thanks by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 11:45 · Score: 0

thanks much for post, http://www.autosurf.turbomarketing.com.br
http://www.turbomarketing.com.br
Nuclear test "accident" is Fukushima, not NKorea. by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 11:53 · Score: 0

are U.S. & Israel planning a triple nuclear strike against North Korea, Iran and Syria?
JCPM: the unfound ancient biblical books could be volatilized atomically if the nuclear strike was started.
FTFY by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 11:59 · Score: 0

2. The fall of N. Korea would mean potentially millions of refugees flooding out of China.
Wargames - Thermo Nuclear War by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 12:31 · Score: 0

What do you want to play KIM ?
1.) Thermo Nuclear War ...
The difference beetween a "conventional" nuclear warhead is indeed the presence of a second stage of fusion payload, the nuclear warhead only been used
to ignite the nuclear fusion by means of pressure and heat. Commonly known as H-Bomb
-> Rosenbergs, H-Bomb, Sugar Ray, Panmunjeom
We didn't start the fire !!!
Yes there was... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-03 12:37 · Score: 0

Yes there was indeed a nuclear explosion in N. Korea a few years ago. I recall reading specifically that it matched the classic "nuclear explosion" signature. It was not very successful (the yield was low.) Then, like a day or two later, articles showed up all over claiming "Oh, no, that was a train explosion. A multi-kiloton train explosion." These did not address the seismographic data at all, and were pretty clearly a simple whitewashing.
Re:Not only by n3r0.m4dski11z · 2012-02-03 13:47 · Score: 1

theres a meme if i ever heard one!

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Difference between nukes and fusion by bryan1945 · 2012-02-04 00:12 · Score: 1

Let's just say they had a thermo-nuke test. That gives off some particular radiation. But I'm not seeing the connection between that and NK's supposed fusion reactor. One would think that the 2 would have some differences, such as a workable reactor giving off the radiation for more than a few milliseconds (or whatever).
Or is this just another badly written TFS?

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Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.