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You Will Never Kill Piracy

scottbomb writes "This is perhaps the best op-ed I've read about the whole SOPA/PIPA controversy. The author challenges Hollywood to re-think their entire business model. It will undoubtedly fall on deaf ears, for now. But sooner or later, they will have no choice but to adapt. From the article: 'Now that the SOPA and PIPA fights have died down, and Hollywood prepares their next salvo against internet freedom with ACTA and PCIP, it's worth pausing to consider how the war on piracy could actually be won. It can't, is the short answer, and one these companies do not want to hear as they put their fingers in their ears and start yelling.'"

46 of 516 comments (clear)

  1. It's the Streisand Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just like modding me down won't kill goatse, you'll never stop piracy. You may sink their ships but we will just equip better cannons on our new ones.

    1. Re:It's the Streisand Effect by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Piracy needs to be controlled

      Unless you are talking about ships, I cannot really agree with you here. Copyright was designed when specialized industrial equipment was required to make large numbers of accurate copies of creative works. That is not the situation today; today, everyone has such equipment in their homes. We should be completely rethinking the law because it is absurd to tell people not to copy things using their own computers.

      A number of people have proposed alternative systems for compensating artists, but instead of giving serious consideration to those proposals, we simply ignore them and continue to pretend that copyright is a form of property.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:It's the Streisand Effect by iluvcapra · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hi, I've been commenting elsewhere (bitchily) on the thread and I'm a commercial artist and work in Hollywood.

      A number of people have proposed alternative systems for compensating artists, but instead of giving serious consideration to those proposals, we simply ignore them and continue to pretend that copyright is a form of property.

      Many of my friends who direct and produce have absolutely been giving serious consideration to these other funding models:

      - A friend of mine from school produced an entire very well-made scifi short many years ago, funding it with donations on his website, long before Kickstarter even existed. It's a great short and he got a lot of attention, and it won a lot of awards at several festivals. Aside from producing another friends feature, however, Jason's paying gig remains an editor-for-hire on E! cable shows of the "100 Craziest celebrity moments" variety. If he wasn't making money from those he would never have been able to complete his short; he was able to raise money to just make the thing with friends, and nowhere near enough to pay himself for the time it took to develop and produce the project, or pay anyone their actual market wages.

      - Another friend of mine has been raising money for her project for several years now on IndieGoGo. Several years now. Luckily she has means and is able to supplement her income with writing gigs on Big Hollywood Movies.

      Basically none of the proposed funding models work without either (1) Hollywood paying everybody the 10 months out of the year people aren't working on their crowdsourced project or (2) abandoning the concept of the professional artist. As I said in another post, your median open source developer doesn't live on donations, they make their money at day jobs working for Evil Corporations that Sue People for infringing IP. Open source is a "marginal time" activity, it doesn't satisfy material needs. Open content is only so far a complement to the copyright model, it can't replace it.

      Crowd sourced funding promises a lot of things: the idea that people will reward good work with more money, or that new work that is "suppressed" by the old system will emerge. In practice, however, these things haven't materialized and I don't think they ever will, I just don't think entertainment works that way. People want a casual experience they can take or leave, they don't want their entertainment experience turned into an advocacy enterprise where they have to band together with people and raise money and attract friend networks and go through all this bullshit just to see 20 minutes of mumblecore.

      Kill copyright and you threaten to kill everything that stands on top of it, like a lot of open source software developers, and any artist that isn't willing to whore himself out to rich patrons. That's what the world was like before copyright: there were artists and there was art, and it was whatever a rich guy said it was. With copyright everyone gets a say in who is rewarded, and they vote with their pocketbooks. Ending copyright, wether that is right or wrong, would unquestionably jeopardize this.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  2. Some people are now DOSing sites with DMCA notices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://takedownpiracy.com/2012/01/another-one-bites-the-dust/
    The guy has made it his job to DOS sites with DMCA takedown notices till they shut down
    If more people like this start infiltrating private torrent sites, it could cause a major issue

  3. Hollywood won't change by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The world has changed but they hasn't and they ain't gonna change because they are still raking in shitloads of $$$ doing what they had been doing for the past century

    I'd wager that it'd be like a repeat of what is happening to Kodak - by the time Hollywood decides to change, it'd be way too late

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Hollywood won't change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If it's possible to make a movie and sell it cheaply online, with no DRM, and still make a profit as the article suggests why hasn't anyone done that successfully?

    2. Re:Hollywood won't change by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Interesting
      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:Hollywood won't change by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A Steam like service for movies and TV shows for a start, which works on an international level (including the sales,etc of the Steam business model) should be a start

    4. Re:Hollywood won't change by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      " Slashdot have ever elaborated a credible alternative for them"

      you must be blind then.

      Every single time the pirates state.. "make it playable on what I want to play it on and a reasonable price."

      that means 30 minute TV shows are $0.25 1 hour are $0.50 and Movies are $1.99

      But the rampant obscene greed from the MPAA refuses to even think of that. Sorry, that TV show you broadcast free over public airwaves is NOT worth it to me to pay $1.99 to watch it on my apple TV or other device.

      I'll even give you $5.99 for first run just out of theater for the first 4 weeks. But a 1985 movie that made it's money 10 times over? it had better be very very cheap for me to watch.

      That is a very viable and REASONABLE alternative. it's just that the people with very low IQ's or are blinded by pure greed refuse to see it as a reasonable response.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    5. Re:Hollywood won't change by ultranova · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They ain't gonna change because none of the pirates posting on Slashdot have ever elaborated a credible alternative for them.

      Show movies on big screen for a price, or simply sell unrestricted movie files online.

      Kodak was killed by superior technology - digital was clearly a better way of taking photos and Kodak just failed to make the leap.

      Yes. There's a lesson there.

      But what, exactly, is the superior alternative for Hollywood? Give everything away for free? The financial physics of that don't work. Maybe they should pay for movies entirely out of popcorn sales.

      Pretty much anything would be superior to their current tactic of making everyone hate their guts while simultaneously trying their level best to become the number one threat to Western culture.

      Please. This kind of 24/7 "piracy is freedom fighting" crap tires me.

      Maybe you should stop reading it, then?

      He then ignores the fact that the easy and cheap rental services he asks for already exist (eg, iTunes, Netflix, Apple TV), and oddly enough, if both are as easy as he claims the free alternative will still always win.

      As long as the Pirate Bay is the only place people can get movie files they can watch on any program and platform they want, are guaranteed to stay on their possession for as long as they - as opposed to a licensing server elsewhere - want, and can be worked on by tools to create new works - such as music videos - the Pirate Bay will always win. Freedom matters. Not to an authoritarian suggesting throwing mentally deficient people into jail over copyright infringement to stop them from "clogging up the Internet", of course, but it does matter to normal people.

      The guy practically admits he breaks the law constantly and doesn't care, which isn't surprising because he has demonstrated the kind of reasoning skills I'd expect of a small child.

      How about the police check his computer then throw him in jail for a bit? That won't stop piracy but it might stop stupid articles about it from clogging up the internet.

      So you think he's clinically retarded yet you suggest throwing him into jail for copyright infringement, not because you think that stops this horrendous criminal behaviour but because you don't like something he wrote?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    6. Re:Hollywood won't change by paimin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      He doesn't ignore the existence of Netfix or iTunes at all, he champions them. And he's not arguing that anyone give everything away for free, he's arguing that a reasonable business model is the best way to counter the threat of piracy.

      Maybe try actually reading the article.

      --
      Facebook is the new AOL
    7. Re:Hollywood won't change by Bert64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about worldwide release for a fair price...
      In cinemas that aren't overpriced and filthy...
      On optical discs that aren't encumbered with DRM schemes and can be played anywhere...
      For download in an open format which is also not encumbered by DRM...

      Sure, some people will still pirate but many more won't... The pirates will no longer be offering a superior service, they will be considerably less convenient and only marginally cheaper.

      Currently the movie industry treats its customers with utter contempt, subjecting them to drm schemes, region restrictions... Many people are strongly against supporting organisations who treat them this way.

      You could also start paying actors a more realistic wage relative to the amount of work they do, quite often behind the scenes staff work for far longer and far harder to produce a movie and yet they get paid a pittance compared to the big name actors.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    8. Re:Hollywood won't change by Charliemopps · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Right, and there are artists doing exactly what is suggested there and making a lot of money doing it. The problem is they no longer need a record company to do it. The problem isn't that free access to music hurts musicians (it's actually very good for them) it's that the DISTRIBUTION of the music is now free... which used to be handled by the corporate music business. What's getting hurt are the corporate interests that used to control the distribution. For a while these businesses had them on their side, but the musicians are slowly starting to realize that for under $20k they can turn a room in their house and basically become their own label.

      All of this is Good for music. Now we just need to find a way to kill Ticketmaster.

    9. Re:Hollywood won't change by jamstar7 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They ain't gonna change because none of the pirates posting on Slashdot have ever elaborated a credible alternative for them. Kodak was killed by superior technology - digital was clearly a better way of taking photos and Kodak just failed to make the leap. But what, exactly, is the superior alternative for Hollywood? Give everything away for free? The financial physics of that don't work. Maybe they should pay for movies entirely out of popcorn sales.

      Never heard of merchandising? Hollywood makes as much through merchandising as they do from the movie itself. Wanna know why that Mickey Mouse tshirt costs 30 bucks and a parody tshirt costs 10 bucks? The licensing fee per shirt the manufacture has to pay to Disney. It costs what, 25 cents to make that Transformer lunch box. Why's it cost 29.99 in the store? Licensing costs to the studio. This business model has been around for a long time. Back in the 60's when I was a kid, the big thing was The Man From U.N.C.L.E., the show was a bigassed hit, and the stores were filled with the lunch boxes, the toy guns, the posters, everything. The studio made a killing on that shit, and you can get big bucks for a lunchbox on eBay.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    10. Re:Hollywood won't change by jc79 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are all of those people strictly necessary to produce a movie? What exactly does a "second second assistant director" do, that a "second assistant director" cannot?

      Here's the full crew of a feature-length movie that made over 60 times its production costs at the box office:

      Produced by
      Shane Carruth producer

      Original Music by
      Shane Carruth

      Film Editing by
      Shane Carruth

      Casting by
      Shane Carruth

      Production Design by
      Shane Carruth

      Sound Department
      Shane Carruth sound designer
      Reggie Evans location sound
      David Ho sound re-recording mixer (uncredited)

      Camera and Electrical Department
      Daniel Bueche camera operator
      James Russell assistant camera
      Anand Upadhyaya camera operator

      Editorial Department
      Omar Godinez telecine colorist

      Other crew
      Chip Carruth caterer
      Kathy Carruth caterer
      David Sullivan production assistant

      This is a film which I have paid to see, bought on DVD and recommended to my friends (several of whom bought copies themselves). It was highly profitable, yet required only 12 people (plus cast) to make.

      I agree that many people work on films that do not earn huge amounts of money. Cutting the fee of a leading actor by a few million dollars might actually mean that everyone else could get a pay rise - or is it right that the people who spend most time making a movie are paid only maybe 1/500th that of the person whose face is on the poster?

      If Hollywood needs special laws made just to benefit its obsolete and inefficient business model, then it needs to change the way it does business, not change civil society to fit its needs.

      Incidentally, you could have replied to my post with a single post of your own, and been less obnoxious about it. I'm polite - why aren't you?

  4. Been there, said that... by yeshuawatso · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And nothing happens. While I commend the writer for articulating what is wrong with the current movie industry model, the reality is that Hollywood is hell bent on preserving their business model. For good reason too, most of Hollywood are distributors. The distributors are the ones that pay for the movie, the marketing, and shoving it down the throats of consumers. They're middle men protecting their business. Change the distribution model and you'll hear the sucking sound of Hollywood companies drying up. Studios aren't strapped with tons of cash to pay for hit movies on their own, so you'll have fewer movies being made. No one in Hollywood has any incentive to change the current model, and unlike the music industry that got dragged into the 21st century, or the game industry that has adapted to every new platform to survive, the movie industry consumers lack any desire to force a business model change or adaption. Tthe closest thing to adaption is Netflix and recent price hikes are an indicator that the distributors will kill it before giving the consumers what they want.

  5. If the "war on piracy" has achieved one thing... by dingen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...it is that tremendous progress has been made in the field of anonymous file sharing technology. If the folks from the music/movie industry hadn't pushed so hard to prevent piracy, we would still be on Napster. But instead we now have very advanced things like the BitTorrent protocol, equipped with encryption, magnet links, DHT and PEX. And it's not just the geeks who are using these advanced file sharing technologies either, it's ordinary people. All in all quite an achievement.

    --
    Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
  6. Not so sure. by wisnoskij · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Sure, they will never make it so that it is completely impossible for a few people to do.
    But they have more then enough lobbying power to make the consequences of being caught so severe and the internet so monitored that piracy is so underground that 99% cannot find it and would not take the risk if they did.

    It might not help their profit margin to do this as much as they think, but they are mega corporations and they at least have a chance at doing whatever they want.
    While they might not be able to do so in any reasonably free and fair society or under current US law, but that will not necessarily stop them.
    Hell, I would not bet against them if they launched a coup to physically take over the government and impose a tyranny in the US and put the current administrations heads on spikes outside of the whitehouse.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:Not so sure. by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Easy peasey companero. Do like so:

      Load up every movie you've got on a drive. Tell a friend to buy one of them new fangled terabyte drives - that's what? $69 at Best Buy? Then connect your drive to his computer and drive. Click and drag contents from your drive to his and vice versa. Crack a bottle or two of wine, hang out, have a great afternoon and soon, you have more movies and shows than you could plausibly watch in years.

      It was called Sneakernet back in the day. There's rumblings about a new kind of "Alexandrian" (i.e. universal) Library - only this time it's totally decentralised and offline and untraceable. How that can pan out, god only knows, but it's the logical conclusion to the graspings of the **AA, the pathetically corrupt governments, and the increasingly policed and threatened internet.

      It used to be "never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of floppy disks." Now it's "never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon filled with hard drives..."

      --
      Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
  7. It's more than piracy by _LORAX_ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Studios live on a strong distribution model where they control the vast majority of the content and the distribution channels. Any tool that is viable for "piracy" is also viable by independent distributors as well. While I don't condone copyright infringement I think studios are more interested in their long term viability than to protect their content from "piracy". I expect similar behavior from the major publishing houses in the next couple of years as ebooks break their hold on the distribution channels.

  8. Re:Yea, just give it away by bmo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    >His solution seems to be "Give everything away for free, then it won't get stolen".

    Do you know how I know you didn't read the article all the way through?

    --
    BMO

  9. Nothing new here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We have been saying this from within the industry for 5 years. Why are we paying truck drivers to haul blu-rays to store shelves when we could be using the internet to deliver the movies for 1/100th the cost? Not only is putting a blu-ray on a store shelf inherently risky (essentially a master copy of the movie) but it costs MONEY to produce, deliver, and manage, Make the movies cheap, remove DRM, use the technology to help figure out where the movies are going so that you can optimally sell merchandise... seems like a winner to me and to many others but apparently not to the people in charge.

  10. Missing one critical point by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The op ed is missing one quite critical point. The movie industries aren't sitting here fighting piracy because they don't know the way forward. They don't sit there because they are dinosaurs and luddites who have no idea how technology works.

    They sit in their 1990s era thinking because despite everything which is changed, and everything which is conspiring against them from the modern age piracy front they are making money. No actually I take that back. They are making a SHITLOAD of money. When you have a magic machine that spits out $100 bills why tinker with it at all? Until the bills stop coming out why mess with it? Someone opposes the machine, don't adapt your machine to them, attempt to crush them.

    It's all good an fine to sit here and claim they are dinosaurs for not getting with the times, but lets face it, the vast majority of us would do anything to maintain our status quo, if that status quo involved having a butter polish your shoes using the face of Benjamin Franklin.

  11. It's the distribution channel by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If it's possible to make a movie and sell it cheaply online, with no DRM, and still make a profit as the article suggests why hasn't anyone done that successfully?

    It's the distribution channel, my friend

    Tell me, currently what are the distribution channel for movies, and how do they distribute them?

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:It's the distribution channel by aplusjimages · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Better yet who owns and controls those channels?

      --
      Can I bum a sig?
    2. Re:It's the distribution channel by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If it's possible to make a movie and sell it cheaply online, with no DRM, and still make a profit as the article suggests why hasn't anyone done that successfully?

      It's the distribution channel, my friend

      Tell me, currently what are the distribution channel for movies, and how do they distribute them?

      The distribution channel for physical goods was sailing ships, and in the early days of sailing ships (1400-1850ish) piracy was in its glory years, now pirates are marginalized by the power and pervasiveness of modern warships, and air pirates are almost non-existent.

      The fiber just got laid 10-15 years ago, we've barely managed to start rolling out IPv6 (I'd equate IPv4 to square rigging...), piracy will be around for quite awhile, but it will eventually be marginalized just Jean Lafitte and his like have been.

      In the meanwhile, expect brutal but ineffective attempts to stop it by the commercial interests who perceive it as a threat (see: Disney's Pirates of the Caribbean movies for a fictionalized depiction of the basic human responses at work...)

    3. Re:It's the distribution channel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Piracy rose to popularity because the sailor who did all the actual work were treated worse than unskilled farm laborers, and they could be pressed into the navy before they even got paid from their merchant ship tour, or just cheated out of their pay by the merchant captain. Serving a privateer promised at least a share of the plunder, but it was one share for the sailor compared to 14 or more for the captain. The famous pirates you hear about ran in democratic packs, electing their captains who only got one additional share, and voting on all important decisions. For many a life of piracy was better than the legal alternative. At least for a while.

    4. Re:It's the distribution channel by hitmark · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Even more so, nothing is lost. End result is that it is more sharing than stealing. If you could share a apple with someone hungry without loosing it, why would you refuse? Any sane person under those circumstances would stop trying to sell apples, unless they could provide some kind of scarce value add to the whole.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    5. Re:It's the distribution channel by jamstar7 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The word what is actually applicable here is "theft" or "smuggling". Now tell me again, how theft/smuggling has ever been marginalized in the world "after some time", at any point in history.

      Except it's not theft, it's copyright infringement. The only thing 'stolen' is an idea, i.e., 'intellectual property'. You know, an intangible. You can't see it, touch it, taste it, or piss on it. People have been selling intangibles for thousands of years. Just ask the Catholic Church. And they've made tons of money on them. Again, just ask the Catholic Church.

      The cool thing about an intangible is, you don't need to produce anything to have it. The 'labor' and 'goods' come from the derivatives, like holy books, lunch boxes, posters, etc.

      --
      Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
    6. Re:It's the distribution channel by JoeMerchant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The fiber just got laid 10-15 years ago, we've barely managed to start rolling out IPv6 (I'd equate IPv4 to square rigging...), piracy will be around for quite awhile, but it will eventually be marginalized just Jean Lafitte and his like have been."

      That was the single most foolish statement ever made on Slashdot.

      Fixed that for you, you're easily topping it with:

      The reason Sea "pirates" dont have a chance is because they dont have Trillions of dollars to have massive balttleships built and they typically are low IQ types. If they had any brains they would get their hands on some old WW-II submarines and utterly own the US navy. a WW-II torpedo will take out a US ship easily. We are just lucky that the pirates out there are simply opportunists that are nothing more than petty thieves and muggers of the sea.

      On the internet, a 13 year old kid has as much technology and power as the entire US government has. This scares the shit out of the governments of the world and big business. Even after IPv8 has been in place for 20 years and quantum processors have been in the iPad 12 and iPhone 47 a 13 year old that has been studying technology and the internet will STILL have as much power as any government on this planet when on the internet.

      The internet is nothing like the physical world where it takes a lot of money and resources to build something.

      If WW-II submarines ever became a problem for the US Navy, how many hours do you think it would be before the Pentagon had a report on the location and capability of every WW-II submarine operating in the world? Do you think that one could surface and operate its diesel engines long enough to recharge the batteries before being spotted by satellite? How about refueling? And where do you get the torpedoes? Sure, anybody _could_ make a WW-II torpedo in an average warehouse space, but could you build a number of them and deliver them to the subs without being noticed? I find SPECTRE more believable than your proposed fantasy.

      200 years ago, Privateers were not exactly on-par with national navies, but they were a force to be reckoned with in individual encounters. Today, the kids on the internet are in a similar position with government intelligence agencies, but that's not a situation that's going to last for centuries - it might continue for 50 or 100 years, but eventually ideas like Echelon will be workable, and deployed, and (more) effectively policing internet traffic, and, yes, they will take enormous resources to create and operate, resources unavailable to your average 13 year old suburbanite punk.

    7. Re:It's the distribution channel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Comedian Louis C.K. confronts piracy head on with digital experiment

    8. Re:It's the distribution channel by WillyWanker · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This. Piracy is an indicator of a broken system and pissed off people. The only way to quell the piracy is to give the people what they want -- a good product at a fair price and at least the impression they are being treated fairly and are important customers. And since that's unlikely to happen, I don't see anything changing anytime soon.

    9. Re:It's the distribution channel by JoeMerchant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think the analogy with 17th and 18th century piracy really fits. We're not talking about a few groups cracking DRM and selling the music. In fact, it's not like that at all. Most of the piracy, so it is called, isn't even for profit any more.

      Bootlegging, then? A more populist revolt, to be sure, but, while I agree that RIAA, DMCA and all the related alphabet soup makes about as much sense as hanging pickpockets, and the "damage" done by IP theft is virtually impossible to quantify (and, that, in-fact some IP theft actually creates value for the "victim"), I believe that there is still some value to society in the concept of "Intellectual Property," and that some form of protection of that property is both warranted and just.

      Today, I feel like the enforcement is akin to swinging a sledgehammer in a room thick with flies, ineffective at best, and horribly unjust to many of the punished. Kind of like being hung for associating with pirates of the high seas.

    10. Re:It's the distribution channel by peragrin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes and no.

      Piracy is an economic problem. If people are stealing your shit then you are missing out on markets where they could be paying you for it(up until a point at any rate).

      In Somlia Piracy started working because you could get a hostage of ship and crew and be paid millions of dollars for 6 months of work. As long as insurance companies keep paying the pirate problem there won't go away.

      For media companies(music, video, news, books). the answer is simple people want to consume such stuff at a time, place and manner that they choose. The icon image of a woman jogging with a SONY Walkman, is hilarious when you stop and think something like 90% of joggers where listening to custom mix tapes that they dubbed off of other tapes, cd's, or from the Radio. People are very used to sharing music and video with their friends and neighbors. DRM is an attempt to stop that sharing. Piracy in many cases is doing just that.

      The RIAA completely misunderstood Napster. they saw money being lost not a chance at making more money. It took 6 years and one billion itunes downloads before they realized just how badly they fucked up.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    11. Re:It's the distribution channel by brit74 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      > The RIAA completely misunderstood Napster. they saw money being lost not a chance at making more money. It took 6 years and one billion itunes downloads before they realized just how badly they fucked up.

      The music companies were always screwed - it didn't matter what choices they made. Music revenues have done nothing but decline in the past 10 years. Saying that iTunes did it right is missing the fact that digital music sales have not compensated for the loss of physical sales. Mathematically speaking, for every $100 decline in physical music sales over the past ten years there has been an $18 increase in digital music sales. It's not a winning strategy. At best, it's making the best of a bad situation.

      (Sorry, I get annoyed when people like to explain the music industry's decline as a result of "not moving to digital sales" when it seems like the real culprit was always what the music industry thought it was: a fast, global internet combined with piracy. The music industry was not wrong about Napster.)

    12. Re:It's the distribution channel by Ceiynt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mathematically speaking, for every $100 decline in physical music sales over the past ten years there has been an $18 increase in digital music sales.

      Never mind the fact that people stopped buying the $15-$20 CD for just the one song that they can now get for $1-$2.

    13. Re:It's the distribution channel by airfoobar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The "Music industry"? The "Music industry" is doing great -- better than ever. You seem to be confusing it with the comparatively tiny "Recording industry".

    14. Re:It's the distribution channel by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, if we seriously take that attitude, then if everyone pirated everything, creators would not be in a position to create entertainment for you.

      Except that, as evidenced by the fact that movies available as DVD rips on The Pirate Bay subsequently make a non-zero number of DVD sales, that isn't what actually happens.

      It's possible for people who have no money to get media for free and yet still have people who can afford to do so pay money to support the creation of new works. It is, in fact, what is happening today: A great many people pay, even though they have the option not to, because they support providing that incentive for artists to create future works.

      As long as those people are providing a sufficient incentive, there is no problem. If it ever comes to pass that so few people are paying that artists decide to stop making new works, the pirates won't have enough material to pirate and the market will sort itself out: Either enough of the pirates who could afford to pay realize what is going on and decide to pay more so that more works are produced and the problem goes away, or artists will start demanding to be paid in advance and use crowd-sourced funding methods to raise money.

      In theory you could have a market failure where not enough people pay to create new works (through any means) and new works then stop being created, but until that is what is actually happening there is no reason to implement extremely expensive countermeasures to fight a purely theoretical problem.

    15. Re:It's the distribution channel by sincewhen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't ignore the fact that they are working in an almost saturated market. Look at how much of the industry income is from back-catalog and compilations. Since most everyone now has all they music they want in digital format (except new consumers - the Bieber fans), people aren't buying much any more. And when they are buying downloaded music, they may buy singles, not whole albums.

      example article

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      -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
    16. Re:It's the distribution channel by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not just that, but if they are in so much trouble, why do I keep reading about new moviegoer record sales every year?

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
  12. Plus, the government supports them by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I missed out on one other important factor ...

    It's the government

    From

    * Copyright laws (change from bad to worse)
    to
    * Tax rebates (for producers, distributors, et al)
    to
    * Revolving door (former politicians becoming lobbyists)
    to
    * Politicians lining their pockets (with PAC contribution from Hollywood)

    Why should Hollywood allow any other people to make money from alternative mean of movie production / distribution ?

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
  13. Re:Yea, just give it away by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He also rationalizes that downloading is okay because it's not like you actually stole a physical object - so it's not really stealing, right?

    One of these things is not like the other:

    1. I steal your car. Now you do not have a car.
    2. I copy your music. Now we both have music.

    Which is why we charge people with theft, rather than copyright infringement. Calling it "theft" is meant to shut down an argument against the copyright system, by equating a copyright with a form of property ownership. Copyright has never been a type of property, it exists only to benefit the public, and at this point it is not clear that copyright is the best way to ensure the public's access to art and science.

    People are not going to stop using their computers to copy things; we need to accept that and move on. If we really want to save copyright as a system, then we need to punish violations the same way we punish parking violations: a small but annoying fine for each violation. Gone are the days when only people with specialized industrial equipment could possibly commit copyright infringement; the law was not designed to deal with mass numbers of people having copying equipment in their homes. If we are not talking about updating the law, then we are having the wrong conversation.

    Personally, I think the whole copyright system should be scrapped, and the industries that were built on copyrights should either adapt to the new world and its new technology or die like other out of date industries. We should be using the Internet to ensure that creative work is never lost, that it never goes out of print, that it is never buried as part of an effort to maintain a corporate image, etc. A lot of people have proposed alternative systems for compensating artists; why are we not giving any of them any consideration?

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    Palm trees and 8
  14. don't underestimate the enemy by Tom · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We are making the mistake that many losers in many conflicts have made: We think our enemy is stupid and not seing the obvious.

    What if they are?

    Imagine that Hollywood is as smart as us and knows everything we know. And still they are doing what they are doing. Why would it make sense?

    One, it gives them time. They may know they need to change business models, but like all humans, they are risk-averse and they need time to adapt, to test out various strategies, to find the most profitable approach. At the same time, they want their revenue to continue coming in. Delaying the inevitable is sometimes a smart move, if you can use the time inbetween.

    Two, making everything else illegal guarantees that they can take down the competition before it emerges. Many of the illegal online services like Napster or Megaupload were toying with the idea of going legit, because they realized that you can only get so big and so much exposure before the guys with the guns come knocking. A legal service that competes with the studios (instead of working with them, like iTunes) could emerge out of those. Can't have that, better to shut it down while it's still clearly on the illegal side.

    There are probably more good reasons. Don't assume they are stupid without proof.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:don't underestimate the enemy by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'll give you a third reason: to stay relevant. The RIAA and the MPAA know and have known for a long time that the Internet and the widespread availability of computers are a death sentence for their industries. Copyrights just do not work when consumer electronics can make large numbers of perfect copies of any data, and without copyrights the RIAA and MPAA have no business model at all.

      What they want is for computers to be consumption-only devices, and for the Internet to be a fancy broadcasting system. Everything they have been pushing for over the past 15 years is designed to chip away at the P2P nature of Internet communications and to put consumers back in their place. There is a grand strategy at work: kill the Internet, rebuild it as a fancy cable TV system.

      That is the nature of the enemy here.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
  15. Re:Yea, just give it away by Grygus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Neither, actually. The truth is that for all the noise, piracy hasn't hurt the movie industry in any demonstrable way (best three box office years in history? 2009, 2010, and 2011, despite record piracy and a bad economy.) However, they can use it as a pretense to maintain/raise prices in the face of falling costs, and as a scare tactic to push through advantageous legislation. There is no reason for them to actually want to win this war - they are making far more money "fighting" it than they would gain if it stopped.

    They are not stupid; they are businessmen.

  16. It's the medium - Re:It's the distribution channel by Zenin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    http://www.popmatters.com/images/news_art/t/the-day-recorded-music-revenue-per-capita-feb-2011.jpg

    I'd much more blame the "indestructible" CD then piracy. A LOT of the industry's revenue, especially the boom that came with CDs, was people re-buying music they already owned on yet-another-format.

    Vinyl wasn't useful in cars (boom of 8 track), 8 track wasn't that useful walking around and self-destructed over time (boom of cassette tape and Sony's Walkman), all of them wore out over time and/or broke easily from being dropped.

    Enter the CD... Never wares out, much more durable, as portable as most anyone would ever need, and for 99% of people sounds better then anything that came before. BOOM, there's a HUGE spike in CD sales as everyone is re-buying everything they ever wanted to keep on CD (along with new music sales, of course).

    Enter digital...

    It's everything the CD was and then some. But there's a problem... Unlike every other format change in the history of recorded music, no one is going to re-buy music they already have on CD as digital. They're just going to rip their own CDs. As a result the industry is left with only new music sales...

    It isn't about piracy - It's about the Music Industry losing the ability to re-sell you the same music over, and over, and over. It's about the Music Industry's ever expanding back catalog no longer translating to automatic ever-expanding re-sales. The Music Industry spent a hell of a lot of money to make copyright effectively never-ending, explicitly to protect that re-selling revenue stream...and now the carpet has been yanked out from under them.

    ---

    That huge drop in sales? That's called market saturation. Most everyone that wanted a Beatles or Stones recording already owns it...on a format they will effectively never replace again.

    It's about the Music Industry thinking, wrongly, that they were in the business of selling toothpaste. Then waking up one day to realize they really are selling cast iron frying pans. You'll always need to buy more toothpaste...but you'll never need to buy another cast iron frying pan.

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    My /. uid is better then your /. uid