Text Message Brands Quebec Man a Terror Suspect

An anonymous reader writes "Saad Allami likely never expected that a simple text message of encouragement would have turned his life upside down. But as seen in a similar case of absurd overreaction by authorities, a simple text message is all it takes to have yourself branded as a terrorist. From the article: 'The Quebec man says he was arrested by provincial police while picking up his seven-year-old son at school. A team of police officers stormed into his home, telling his wife she was married to a terrorist. And his work colleagues were detained for hours at the U.S. border because of their connection to him.'"

Comments

What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

What were the contents of the text message? That seems like sort of a key point.

Re:What was it?

[guabah]

He just wanted to "blow away" the competition

Re:What was it?

[Squiddie]

The article says that he told his colleagues to "blow away" the competition, so most likely it read as, "Blow them away." And it was misinterpreted.

Re:What was it?

[Jeremi]

The article says that he told his colleagues to "blow away" the competition, so most likely it read as, "Blow them away." And it was misinterpreted.

Indeed -- but misinterpreted by whom? His colleagues, or by someone who was spying on his text messages? And if it was the latter, did they have a search warrant, or is this another case of the government conducting warrantless wiretaps?

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

They really should provide a link to some related arti... oh. Wait.

Hey look.

On Jan. 21, 2011, Allami sent a text message to colleagues urging them to "blow away" the competition at a trade show in New York City.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I read the "blown away" part about his NYC competitors, but that's not the entire text message, is it? I don't see why we should condemn the authorities for this when we don't actually know what he said.

Also, thanks for making it clear that *I'm* a moron. I totally thought you were addressing that comment to someone else.

Re:What was it?

[Squiddie]

The article doesn't say, but it was more likely that they were spying on him.

Re:What was it?

[phantomfive]

And if it is the former, that is even scarier. We can trust no one!

Re:What was it?

[Rockoon]

A Connecticut Casino has a set of 4 "core values" that its employees are supposed to emulate:

Blowing Away the Customer
Developing Passionate and Dedicated Employees
Continuously Striving for Perfection
Bottom Line Performance

Is this out of a terrorist handbook?

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gosh, thanks. I definitely didn't see the link. As I said earlier, the story doesn't include the entire text message which seems pretty important here. I know I'm supposed to just condemn this but I'd rather actually know what happened before freaking out. My apologies for wanting some context.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it seems "blow away" is a translation, FTA:

"""Allami says he sent the text message in French and used the word ''exploser,'' a term he claims is commonly used in finance to mean grow or succeed."""

Re:What was it?

[AHuxley]

The NSA dictionary search was run by very smart people and the different federal actions never really got too public over many years.
Now every federal, state and telco related agency is trying for the same easy telco feeds on cheap "super" computers after renting or buying dictionary search software.

Re:What was it?

[Seq]

Allami says he sent the text message in French and used the word ''exploser,'' a term he claims is commonly used in finance to mean grow or succeed.

Re:What was it?

[Isaac Remuant]

how sure are you that you're not being spied on as well? and I mean you and everyone else who uses cell phones.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Salem, je serai à New York le 25 janvier, on va exploser ACN, si vous avez des contacts référez-les moi"

http://www.aufaitmaroc.com/maroc/societe/2012/2/3/canada-un-entrepreneur-dorigine-marocaine-souhaitant-exploser-la-concurrence-ecroue

Re:What was it?

[TheGratefulNet]

I understand a guy who does not have english as his first language using the phrase and not meaning it literally.

BUT - what excuse is there for north american 'authorities' to misunderstand this very common expresssion ?

there is no excuse. anyone in charge connected to this should be fired.

or, blown away....

Re:What was it?

[murdocj]

I'm not, I have my tinfoil hat on

Re:What was it?

[murdocj]

Gosh, thanks. I definitely didn't see the link. As I said earlier, the story doesn't include the entire text message which seems pretty important here. I know I'm supposed to just condemn this but I'd rather actually know what happened before freaking out. My apologies for wanting some context.

This is slashdot. Amerika is the center of all evil. Get with the program.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Allami says he sent the text message in French and used the word ''exploser,'' a term he claims is commonly used in finance to mean grow or succeed

RTFA

Re:What was it?

[russotto]

Connecticut Casino has a set of 4 "core values" that its employees are supposed to emulate:

Blowing Away the Customer

I think that must have been done by a non-native English speaker. It's just a mistaken idiom; the correct "core value" is "Cleaning Out the Customer".

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Salem, je serai à New York le 25 janvier, on va exploser ACN, si vous avez des contacts référez-les moi"

http://www.aufaitmaroc.com/maroc/societe/2012/2/3/canada-un-entrepreneur-dorigine-marocaine-souhaitant-exploser-la-concurrence-ecroue

Thanks for this. While it doesn't really justify what happened to him, I can definitely see why saying this would be deemed suspicious:

"Salem, I will be in New York on January 25, ACN is going to explode, if you have contacts refer them to me"

Re:What was it?

[mosb1000]

Is it on your cellphone?

Re:What was it?

[Yvan256]

Salem, je serai à New York le 25 janvier, on va exploser ACN, si vous avez des contacts référez-les moi.

Translates to:
Salem, I will be in New York on January 25h, we will explode ACN, if you have contacts refer them to me.

So yes, if you only see that sentence alone by itself, it will make you want to go and arrest the man.

The question is, why didn't they dig a bit deeper to get more information such as more details about the supposed bomb and other supposed terrorists *AND* why was his message intercepted in the first place? Welcome to 1984. The real terrorists did win, everyone in North America now lives in a police state.

Re:What was it?

[jamstar7]

With a name like Saad Allami you just know he was being profiled.

Re:What was it?

[Rytis]

It is indeed used very often in colloquial French. You can explode your budget, some limit/quota (overspend or overdo) and yes, you can explode your competition as the title of this article says.

Re:What was it?

[meerling]

"Allami says he sent the text message in French and used the word ''exploser,'' a term he claims is commonly used in finance to mean grow or succeed."

Bet it was picked up by english keyword software or 'examined' by an english speaker that obviously doesn't understand french idioms/slang, so he googled it, and found the wrong definition.
Basic moron level knee-jerking.

Re:What was it?

[meerling]

more likely? Considering they went ballistic on one misinterpreted word in a text message, I'd say they it's 100% positive they were spying on him.

Re:What was it?

[Baloroth]

This guy was from Quebec, whose official language is technically French, so it seems entirely possible that whichever law enforcement agent (the provincial police arrested him) heard about it was not, in fact, a native English speaker as such.

Most Canadians do speak English, but Quebec is the primarily French section of Canada. Haven't been there, but from what I've heard about it from my Canadian friends, this seems possible. Still an over-reaction, obviously.

Re:What was it?

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Blowing the customer. That's got to be a Nevada casino? No?

Re:What was it?

[hairyfeet]

Ya know, we all make fun of them when they do obvious dumbshit like this, but how much of this is typical corporate CYA that always happens when somebody fucks up? I mean they ignored the guys learning to fly a plane and not land it which now looks pretty fucking stupid but at that time, when the only thing any terrorist had ever done with a plane was demand it take him to Cuba? Compared to what they had on their plates it probably wasn't seen as a big whoop.

Well now here we are, and after millions spent in investigation on how they could have missed 9/11 i have no problem thinking they may go completely overboard in the other direction in a classic case of CYA. Again while not condoning this obvious dumbshit maneuver given the circumstances you can see why it happens, nobody wants to be labeled the next guy that "ZOMFG you fucked up and let them attack us you monster!" so here we go.

Re:What was it?

[jasno]

I think it's a reference to the complementary buffet...

Re:What was it?

[Baloroth]

Whoops, looks like the message was actually sent in French. It used the word "exploser", which literally means "explode". I don't speak French, so if I saw that I would think he meant it literally, but it is entirely possible it is common slang for, well, "blow away" in the innocent sense.

Re:What was it?

[alexgieg]

Is this out of a terrorist handbook?

In Portuguese the word "bomba" can mean "bomb", "pump" or "eclair", so you infer the meaning from context. Now, guess what happened to a not-quite-fluent-in-English Brazilian businessman when, passing through US customs a few years ago with a pump, and asked by the customs officer what that were, he replied with an epic mistranslated "a water bomb"?

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

This guy was from Quebec, whose official language is French [...]

FTFY

Re:What was it?

[Atzanteol]

That's precisely part of the problem. Security isn't about CYA it's about catching bad guys and not arresting innocent people (the latter seems to be forgotten a lot). And this CYA behavior is being reinforced by "management" rather than discouraged. So if somebody find a battery on the ground near a building and suggests "it looks suspicious" then all the way up the line people are thinking "IT'S A BOMB DESTROY IT" without any justification or disagreement.

Re:What was it?

[ThePeices]

And the moral of the story is?
Dont travel to the US.

The #1 reason why the US was quickly ruled out as my holiday destination this year is because of the horror stories like this.
Im not a criminal hell bent on the cold blooded murder of thousands of people, im a tourist.
I want to take photos of my trip, not take photos with the intent of bombing the place.
I dont want to be fondled, radiated or seen naked on every plane trip, have guns pointed at me, screamed at followed or harassed.

bah, fuck that, im going somewhere else.
A real shame too, as genuinely I wanted to go there and see the sights.

Re:What was it?

[rtb61]

Not just profiling. Grossly lazy policing. It seems that many places in the world the police are simply getting lazier and stupider. Forget professionalism in policing, let's go right wing cheap and performance based.

Instead of professional police officers, we are getting failed jock strap bullies, not good for much else and obviously have to rely on methods other than real detective sleuthing to pursue criminals.

Idiots at keyboards, basically incapable of doing the job and relying on infantile data base mining to do their job for them. Which reminds me, no who was the fuck head privacy invasive database windrone who set this POS system. Some where skulking in the background is the real ass hat who is actually responsible for this, ex-spurt (drip under pressure) who set this kind of shit up.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

So yes, if you only see that sentence alone by itself, it will make you want to go and arrest the man.

Really? Seeing that would make you want to have this man arrested? You are just as bloody bad as the authorities there!

Do you honestly think a genuine terrorist would right out say in a text message to an accomplice that they are going to blow something up? Do you honestly think they are that naive and that stupid?

geez....

Re:What was it?

[CaptainAmerica1941]

Considering this story was about Canada, you must be really paranoid!

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Dunno about that CYA theory.

I hear how law enforcement and military have contingency plans for everything all the time on slashdot. But I've also heard they had quite a few leads for some time before 9/11 that someone was preparing to kidnap and fly aircraft for a terrorist act of sorts. I also keep hearing that while there's too much "electronic intel" of dubious quality, and comparatively little quality human intel, because collecting such is damned hard work.

Putting all these disparate soundbites together and mixing in some tinfoil, I'd venture a guess that this arrest was just a power trip of a bunch of thugs who happened to have too much "electronic intel" and too little desire to do real police work, over what looked to them as an easy score to add to their track record as a shortcut to the next promotion.

Incidentally, are all people working for this guy Moroccans as well?

Re:What was it?

[siddesu]

Did they use it on him in the dark room behind the customs counter?

Re:What was it?

[cold fjord]

And the moral of the story is?
Dont travel to the US.

The #1 reason why the US was quickly ruled out as my holiday destination this year is because of the horror stories like this.

When I read statements like yours I'm often left wondering, why do you think the American security services will single you out of the other 64 million travelers to the United States per year? And do you truly believe that nobody is arrested due to misunderstanding or mistake in your or other countries?

According to new data released today by the Commerce Department, the U.S. can expect 6-8 percent average annual growth in tourism over the next five years, and this year, 64 million foreign travelers are projected to visit the United States -- New Report Forecasts Strong U.S. Travel and Tourism Growth During Next Five Years

My suggestion is that you don't read any medical textbooks.

Re:What was it?

[deanklear]

Compared to what they had on their plates it probably wasn't seen as a big whoop.

Don't paper over our intelligence failures. The title of the memo to the President of the US was "Bin Laden Determined to Strike Inside the US." Bin Laden was, at that time, the head of an organization that had already carried out terrorist attacks against the United States in Kenya, as well as the bombing of the USS Cole. He wasn't a sales manager in Montreal.

If our governments are going to assume that we are all terrorists until proven innocent, the war on terror is over. We lost.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

...and where hyperbole and mock outrage passes for rebuttal.

Re:What was it?

[JoeMerchant]

When I read statements like yours I'm often left wondering, why do you think the American security services will single you out of the other 64 million travelers to the United States per year?

London, Heathrow, 1989, I was "detained" while in transit through the airport from one plane to another, a metal detector picked up the PDA in my pocket and I had to wait for a male security officer to be summoned to pat me down. 1989, PDAs were relatively rare, not yet standard procedure to inform bleary eyed travelers at 4:30am their local time about removing them before walking through the detector; which, by the way, didn't look much like the metal detector stations in US airports at the time, especially due to the fact that I was just changing planes and wasn't expecting a security checkpoint.

Granted, the shoe removal show in US airports easily trumps that now, but, staying out of the US will not keep you out of TSA style shakedowns.

Re:What was it?

[DarwinSurvivor]

This was in Canada. PLEASE stop lumping Canadians in with our southern neighbours.

Re:What was it?

[murdocj]

whoosh

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Kinda takes all the wind out of your sails having it pointed out that it was the Canadian police, doesn't it?

Moral of the story is, get your story straight before you go off and look like an idiot.

Re:What was it?

[jamstar7]

According to new data released today by the Commerce Department, the U.S. can expect 6-8 percent average annual growth in tourism over the next five years, and this year, 64 million foreign travelers are projected to visit the United States -- New Report Forecasts Strong U.S. Travel and Tourism Growth During Next Five Years

How many people read 'terrorism' rather than 'tourism' in the above quote?

Re:What was it?

[Fjandr]

It is even worse if the law enforcement officers were native French speakers, because the text was in French and used a common idiom which would have been far less likely to be misinterpreted by a native speaker than someone speaking English as their primary language. On the other hand, if the law enforcement officers were English-speaking, the translator should probably be fired for incompetence. Knowledge of common idioms is absolutely essential when it comes to translations for any important purpose (such as law enforcement).

Re:What was it?

[kosty]

You mean like THIS guy? http://img3.etsystatic.com/il_fullxfull.111497703.jpg

Re:What was it?

[deanklear]

Yes, that's a much more plausible explanation than poorly trained terrorists trying the same plot again and succeeding because of a massive American intelligence bureaucracy that wasn't quick enough to adapt...

Turn off the Alex Jones and go outside.

Re:What was it?

[AHuxley]

A genuine bad person would have direct or 2nd gen state/covert training. They know to stay off any 'phone' due to voice prints, call logs, camera, gps, unique embedded photo codes and risks spyware been pushed onto the phone.
A phone is an open mic, a log of all your contacts and links you to people who might have sold out, been turned or just been lazy or unlucky.

Re:What was it?

[Coppit]

The first draft said "Blowing the customer". It was a few years before anyone realized the mistake -- it being a casino in Nevada and all.

Re:What was it?

[dbIII]

when the only thing any terrorist had ever done with a plane was demand it take him to Cuba

It was so obvious it was in a Tom Clancy book and an X-Files spinoff. Both being unashamedly derivative products it came from a lot of other places before that.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well...if you'd read the article in your mad dash for first post you'd know what it was.

You don't even need to read the whole thing, the first line would have done the trick.

Moron.

Yes, *you*. You're a moron.

Oh, the irony. It appears you too did not read the article in your mad dash to scold the OP. Reading the first sentence would only get your the translated meaning of what he said. To see what he ACTUALLY said...well, the actual message isn't in the article, but the keyword that likely triggered this is not mentioned until almost the end of the article.

Get a brain, moran.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course - his brother Haapy Allami was never a suspect.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

"A Connecticut Casino". Is there a Connecticut, Nevada? Maybe it's one of the old ghost towns.

Re:What was it?

[timeOday]

My question is whether there isn't more to the story. If a short text message in isolation can cause this much mess, statistically there should be hundreds of such cases every day. Yet there aren't. What is the rest of the story? And since he was never charged, is there any way to find out?

Re:What was it?

[hairyfeet]

Yes but I wonder how much of it is 'pretend it isn't there and the monster might go away" wishful thinking? i mean in ANY small town you have enough chemicals that mixed in the right way would be an instant nightmare, see OKC for an example, yet we simply can't survive without those very same chemicals. Frankly I'm amazed we haven't had some nutjob set off a nuke yet as the gun design is VERY crude and with the fall of the USSR there have been plenty of reports of shit just turning up gone.

Frankly I think the ONLY thing that has saved our asses so far is terrorists are like most criminals and REALLY fucking stupid. We are in serious fucking trouble if they ever figure out how to recruit people with a brain because frankly all this security theater crap would be trivially avoided by anybody with a brain, lucky for us what they get is morons like the underwear bomber. But if they had to actually lock down all the different things that could create mass destruction frankly the whole country would be in gridlock. The best they can do is hope they can trip over the right intel at the right time of they do something really fucking stupid like brag about their plans on some jihad channel on the net. Because the world we have now simply wasn't designed with "Hey can this be used by a nutjob with a cause against us?" in mind.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

The sound of your tinfoil hat blowing off?

Re:What was it?

[1u3hr]

My question is whether there isn't more to the story. If a short text message in isolation can cause this much mess, statistically there should be hundreds of such cases every day. Yet there aren't. What is the rest of the story?

He's a muslim, and used the word "explode".

Some bureaucrat felt he had to cover his ass by taking it literally.

You have to wonder what the point is of having humans in the loop at all if they don't exercise judgement.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen. People who post such nonsense, believe (A) their chances of getting detained are extraordinarily high, (B) they would be relatively rare everywhere else, and (C) that said detention would be traumatic and negate the trip itself.

I've been through much more intensive investigations than anything the TSA frontline staff even know how to do. No lasting harm. I guess that's what comes from confidence, rather than trepidation.

Re:What was it?

[Runaway1956]

I like this guy, already. He isn't suing for millions, he is suing for $100,000. And, he wants a certificate of good conduct so that he can work in the field of his choosing. Obviously, he wants to embarrass the fools responsible. Sounds like a reasonable guy to me. I get so disgusted with people who have a legitimate greivance, but blow it all out of proportion by suing for tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. It's like, "Oh, these guys insulted me - I should never have to work again! Set me up with luxury homes, luxury cars, furs, diamonds, yachts and private jets!"

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell that to my brother. He has slightly darker skin than most of European descent, and he gets pulled aside by security every time he goes through an airport. Not every other time, not every third time, but every single time he goes through an airport.

He's never done anything of note, and is a librarian.

So, (A) their chances of getting detained are extraordinarily high can be true for anybody. Just because it's not for you doesn't mean it isn't that way for everyone else.

Re:What was it?

[interval1066]

The #1 reason why the US was quickly ruled out as my holiday destination this year is because of the horror stories like this.

You're overreacting. You act like this is some kind rule of travel here. Yes, we will be targeting YOU, and only YOU, because you all know who you are and want to fuck with YOU. BS. We don't need you here anyway.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

How many people read 'terrorism' rather than 'tourism' in the above quote?

That would be pretty much limited to the small number of people that believe that the Commerce Department is a grocery store.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

A genuine terrorist maybe not, but Islamist terrorists aren't the brightest lightbulbs, what with blowing themselves up along with unimportant bystanders instead of the Enemy's leaders.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

If your name is Allami, you're being spied on.

Re:What was it?

[malilo]

As a librarian though, he's probably at least mildy to the left politically. Ever contributed to the ACLU? Attended any Iraq war protests? I'm not kidding. Happened to my boyfriend too, after attending one anti-war protest. The penalty for being brownish, I guess.

Re:What was it?

[amiga3D]

heh, we'll miss you. You do know that millions of people make the trip with nary a problem. Bad shit happens everywhere, dip shit bureaucrats fuck up everywhere, it gets publicized a lot because a lot of people are fed up with the TSA and want to put pressure on it. I personally think the anti-terror pendelum has swung way too far but still it's a small percentage that have any real problem. I know lots of Americans wont travel overseas too though so what the hell. Hope you enjoy the vacation where ever you decide to wander.

Re:What was it?

[amiga3D]

Actually it's been known to happen. People who fly into buildings aren't really all that smart. Stupid is as stupid does.

Re:What was it?

[amiga3D]

He was black?

Re:What was it?

[dragonhunter21]

What? I tell my friends to blow away the competition all the time. What's wrong with that?

"Telecommunications sales manager Saad Allami says..."
Oh, wait, there you go.

Re:What was it?

[Poltron Inconnu]

It's common idiom in English too. Why would a translation cause you to think it was meant literally? For example if the non-idiomatic translation were, "I want you to go out and explode company x.", That still reads like corporate marketing speak not terrorist mastermind ordering the troops. Changing it from "blow away" to "explode" doesn't make it seem sinister at all.

Re:What was it?

[EdIII]

If you mean violent liquid diarrhea, than that just depends where you went on the strip. Most are ok.

On another note, I don't think the premise in your sig works. Otherwise I would have brought peace to the Middle East a long time ago.

Re:What was it?

[AchilleTalon]

I don't know, I live in Quebec and I speak french. I never ever heard about this story before and from TFA, it's more than one year old (21 January 2011). That's only now I am learning about it on ./, never ever read about it in our local, regional and national newspapers. So, this raises the question: What damages to his reputation can he really claim since nobody heard about it until he decided to sue the authorities?

Re:What was it?

[wvmarle]

It was about a Canadian company attending a trade show in the US. And the man sent a text message to his colleagues who at the time were in the US. US border patrol got involved as well (the latter part is mentioned in the summary even).

Both are involved. That doesn't make either US or Canada any better though.

Re:What was it?

[wvmarle]

When setting off a metal detector I've been asked to remove all metal items from my pockets for inspection, and walk through it again, until it's not set off. Or they use a hand-held wand and subsequently ask me to show what's in those specific spots. No need for pat-down just for setting off a metal detector.

Re:What was it?

[shutdown -p now]

You don't get the point. The police were idiots for interpreting his message the way it was, but that still leaves the question of why it was read in the first place - apparently, the police had an interest in his communications even before this incident, enough to monitor them. And there really doesn't seem to be any explanation for that other than his origin.

Re:What was it?

[zill]

Your translation is wrong. As the article points out directly below the text message:

The term "blow" the competition is regularly used in motivational speech to mean a victory and thus does not cause confusion, according to the complaint.

Re:What was it?

[jamesh]

Ya know, we all make fun of them when they do obvious dumbshit like this, but how much of this is typical corporate CYA that always happens when somebody fucks up? I mean they ignored the guys learning to fly a plane and not land it which now looks pretty fucking stupid but at that time, when the only thing any terrorist had ever done with a plane was demand it take him to Cuba? Compared to what they had on their plates it probably wasn't seen as a big whoop.

I'm sure there is a lot of CYA going on these days, but it doesn't explain this one. I mean, if I just instructed my terrorist buddies to go and blow something up, then you come and get me after you've stopped my terrorist buddies. And you don't just go and get them, you watch them for a bit first so see if anyone looks like they are about to blow something up. That's the sort of ass covering they should be doing.

Re:What was it?

[jjp9999]

Yeah, I was searching online and didn't see any media that had the full text message. I assume they just copied the story from each other. He obviously didn't text "blow away the competition," or they all would have quoted the full text message.

Re:What was it?

[ZorinLynx]

>We are in serious fucking trouble if they ever figure out how to recruit people with a brain

The thing is, 99.99% of "people with a brain" are smart enough to realize that terrorism is always a bad idea.

The 0.01% who happen to be smart but not smart enough to avoid being terrorists tend to be the leaders like Bin Laden.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

A Connecticut Casino has a set of 4 "core values" that its employees are supposed to emulate:

Blowing Away the Customer

I rather be blown.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the malpractice mindset where "nothing is a mistake in hindsight and someone always has to pay" is being applied to security. Welcome to the lawyer world.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Frankly I'm amazed

Don't be. Making the sort of metal required for that sort of thing is harder than it looks. The kind of "shit" you're worried about doesn't "just turn up gone" because our former Cold War adversaries were professionals too.

The depressing part is that after reading a story like this, and responding to a post like yours, I realize I have to choose my words carefully. Because I'm more afraid of the thousands of dumb good guys (who are just in it for the paycheck) than I am of the handful of smart bad guys (who are few in number and hampered by the laws of physics). The Lawful Stupids vastly outnumber the Chaotic Evil Geniuses. The Chaotic Evil (geniuses and morons alike) don't even have radar, so I can't protect myself from them. But I'm damn sure I want to stay off the radar of the Lawful Stupids.

(Hi guys. If you're a human who's actually reading this and smirking, you're probably one of the Lawful Good, not one of the Lawful Stupid. Thanks for your efforts, buy a beer for the programmer who wrote an algorithm clever enough to flag this post, and keep on hunting the bad guys!)

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Got canada mixed up somehow?

Re:What was it?

[canajin56]

"ACN will explode" is a way better translation. "On" only means "we" in some contexts, and this is not one of them. In this case it means "Somebody will explode ACN" which one might interpret as a warning to this guy...or maybe it means what I just did in that very sentence? Who's "one?" That's right, it's avoiding the passive voice by putting in an anonymous actor! "on va exploser ACN" means the ACN will explode, with no information given about who or what is causing this to happen. And since "exploser" means "boom (economics)" and "soar (rocketry)" in addition to the obvious "explode"....yeah, he's saying the trade show is going to be big.

Re:What was it?

[JustOK]

America gets to vet people flying on internal Canadian flights

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Being from Quebec, and being French, I can assure you that most people here can speak and understand English. Most big cities are bilingual (I'm looking at you Montreal, Gatineau and Quebec).

That being said, cities that are far removed are most likely to be completely French. Also, older people tend to be uni-lingual French (for example, my grand parents are completely French).

Now, the culprit in this case is the expression the person was using: He was using a French Moroccan expression. It is a different dialect with different expressions. It would be like comparing the French language of Quebec vs France vs Africa.

Hope that helps.

Re:What was it?

[Ryanrule]

I agree. Pay engineers better salary, lest we fuck all yous up something terrible.

Re:What was it?

[stephanruby]

He said "exploser" which is French for "explode", which he interprets as "succeed" or "blow them away". I am originally from France and I can't say I'm familiar with that specific wording, but that's how I would interpret it myself if I ever received such a message from a co-worker (unless of course I was a terrorist, in which case context means everything).

Indeed -- but misinterpreted by whom? His colleagues, or by someone who was spying on his text messages?

This was a private text message directed _at_ his co-workers who were at a trade-show abroad. If that message had really been about a real bomb, it would imply that anyone it was directed at would have been an accomplice. Also, I doubt the authorities would have waited until the co-workers came back through border control to interrogate them if the complaints had really come from the co-workers themselves.

And if it was the latter, did they have a search warrant, or is this another case of the government conducting warrantless wiretaps?

My bet would be that they were using Blackberry's private BBMs network. In Europe (except for the UK), government officials and high ranking businessmen are told not to use Blackberries, because all the traffic is said to be shared de-encrypted with the US/UK/Canadian/New Zealand/Australian intelligence's echelon program as part of their anglo-security intelligence sharing pact. It is said that even if you're sending a text or an email to an office worker just standing in an office down the hall from you, it doesn't matter where you are in Europe, and even if you're not in the UK, the text or email will first go through the UK so that it can first be indexed and analyzed by the echelon program before it can make its way back to your country and be delivered to your co-worker.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think boycotting the US as a holiday destination is a perfectly rational response to the continuous stream of news about random people being humiliated by the TSA, detained and treated badly for no good reason, or denied entry for ridiculous reasons. Why risk all that when you could instead spend your holidays in a more sensible place?

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of professional police officers, we are getting failed jock strap bullies, not good for much else and obviously have to rely on methods other than real detective sleuthing to pursue criminals.

This is as it always has been.

My father, who used to work with cops (he worked in city government) has quite a few interesting stories about 1970s vice squad duty being seen as a fun opportunity to track down and "beat up a few queers". Not to mention other assorted malfeasance.

The job of police officer is very attractive to people who like to bully and push other people around. If not carefully managed, these kind people can easily dominate a police force. Concentrations of bullies chase away the competent, justice and duty focused people. So without really good management it is very hard to keep a department clean.

Add bully bait to the obvious implications of the Stanford Prison Experiment and you've got a recipe for rampart, Ramparts style, police brutality. Things like Oscar Grant being shot in the back while lying face down on a subway platform.

Thugs on the government payroll are cops. Licensed, privately run thugs are security guards. Unlicensed, privately run thugs are criminals.

Re:What was it?

[compro01]

He said "exploser" which is French for "explode", which he interprets as "succeed" or "blow them away". I am originally from France and I can't say I'm familiar with that specific wording

Being from France doesn't help you much with informal Quebecois French. It has deviated considerably in the past couple centuries.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

... is terrorists are like most criminals and REALLY fucking stupid.

Such a fucking stupid thing to say. Of course there are smart criminals. But smart criminals don't get caught and wear a business suit on Wall Street. Criminals use violence because it is the only leverage they have to achieve their goals.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nobody wants to be another GW Bush
Very informative video of Clinton explaining to devious Fox news interviewer on how Bush dropped the ball (and Fox and others gloss it over ).
Youtube Video

If you watch part 2 first you get a better idea of the ingenious Fox spin machine too. Damn they're good.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

No you don't want to blow *away* the customer, you want them to stay.
They should rephrase that part.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering this story was about Canada, you must be really paranoid!

The current Canadian "leadership" lives to suck American dick.

Canada was overthrown over by a (apparently American Enterprise Institute groomed) Canadian-born American shill and son of an oil-company employee (stephen harper) and his cabal of loud-mouthed, wooden-headed, extremist and highly overweight air-horns.

Through various deep, dirty and devious means, they managed to fool enough brainless voters to give them an un-opposable minority position. 60% of Canadians voted AGAINST these assholes, but they gamed the system such that 40% was enough.

Their mission appears to be to turn Canada into the 51st state, probably to be called "Police" after their criminalize-everything (and throw billions at the jail-industrial complex) approach, and throw billions and billions at the military-industrial complex, including pissing away billions on orders for the apparently still-born F-35 jets (no doubt to give the US better volume pricing for their purchases of them) and give away all Canadian technology and vast resources to multinationals. Oh, and turn Canada into a war-maker instead of a peace-keeper.

To quote Robin Williams on the Tonight Show a couple of years ago: "Harper just like George W Bush, but without the charisma".

What makes harper even scarier than bush is that harper actually has a brain.

Re:What was it?

[rahvin112]

Nothing happened with the Russian material because the Russian military officers were consummate professionals interested in maintaining the integrity of their nuclear supplies EVEN when they weren't being paid. The US helped a bit by offering support in the form of money, tracking technology and basically secretarial assistance in tracking and verifying the integrity of the supplies but every goes back to the Russians and their professionalism.

The few times a couple ounces of material disappeared it happened from commercial sources not weapons and even then it was quickly intercepted when they tried to sell it. This was all confirmed recently with recent books from people that have retired that were involved in the process, the Russians were always very professional. Hell its the reason we never ended up in a war with them, that same professionalism got Kruchef sacked and Stalin murdered by a Coumadin overdose. We might have some idealogical differences with the Russians on occasion but they've always been sane responsible people with integrity and honor.

Re:What was it?

[rahvin112]

Because those flights are frequently in US airspace due to geographic and jetstream issues.

Re:What was it?

[geogob]

Maybe its common in the french language in France. In Quebec, where most french speaking Canadians are, I don't think I've ever heard the word "exploser" in that context. If I did, it was only on very rare occasions.

If I had been the analyst on the case, I would have raised a red flag too. What's missing is the whole context. You can't raise flags on single words without their context. Without the full text message, it's hard to get an opinion on the matter.

Re:What was it?

[SpaghettiPattern]

I like this guy, already. He isn't suing for millions, he is suing for $100,000. And, he wants a certificate of good conduct so that he can work in the field of his choosing. Obviously, he wants to embarrass the fools responsible. Sounds like a reasonable guy to me. I get so disgusted with people who have a legitimate greivance, but blow it all out of proportion by suing for tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. It's like, "Oh, these guys insulted me - I should never have to work again! Set me up with luxury homes, luxury cars, furs, diamonds, yachts and private jets!"

(Emphasis mine.)
You never learn, do you?!

Re:What was it?

[blind biker]

I'm in agreement with all you said. I just want to point this one out:

Frankly I'm amazed we haven't had some nutjob set off a nuke yet as the gun design is VERY crude and with the fall of the USSR there have been plenty of reports of shit just turning up gone.

To be honest, this should keep some people up at night. Someone with enough money and connections could have picked up enough Russian U235 by now. Likely? Maybe not highly, but absolutely possible. The Russians really did steal shit left and right during the disintegration of the USSR.

Re:What was it?

[TheTurtlesMoves]

Gun devices are not as easy as they look, and more importantly are woefully ineffective, meaning you need on the order of 10x more bomb grade material. They are more sensitive to contaminants as well.

Despite what you read in books getting hold of bomb grade material is very very hard. First of all even a disenfranchised Russian is not stupid or completely amoral for example. Next is that it is not easy to hide for a number of reasons. Finally you have to be careful how you move it around or it will go "delayed neutron" critical. Easy to spot and stop.

In fact getting hold of bomb grade material is so hard that it would be easier to devlop a implosion type device and save on smuggling all that extra materiel. Implosion devices where hard in the 50s, its not difficult these days and you could devlop it without bomb grade material.

The hard part remains getting hold of the bomb grade Pu or U.

Re:What was it?

[dunkelfalke]

They had PDAs in 1989 that could actually fit in a pocket?!

Re:What was it?

[houghi]

Terrorists are not stupid. They have been to the same universities as you have AND have their degree.
Criminals are also not stupid. They are just lazy.

Perhaps those bad terrorists do not really care about the USofA and are more interested that things go as they like at home.

Re:What was it?

[cyber-vandal]

I'm not gonna bother coming to the US from the UK either:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16810312

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Being from France doesn't help you much with informal Quebecois French. It has deviated considerably in the past couple centuries.

Of course, the subject was from Morocco, which suggests that he probably learned French French (or Moroccan French) rather than Quebecois French.

Re:What was it?

[tburkhol]

You don't get the point. The police were idiots for interpreting his message the way it was, but that still leaves the question of why it was read in the first place - apparently, the police had an interest in his communications even before this incident, enough to monitor them. And there really doesn't seem to be any explanation for that other than his origin.

I think you> don't get the point. The point is that electronic surveillance is now so cheap that you don't need a reason to target anyone specificially. Specific targeting would, in fact, raise the complaint of racial profiling, so it's much easier just to grep everyone's text messages for words like "explode" or "destroy." So, you get the 3rd degree on Allami because his text contained a suspicious name "Salem" and a suspicious phrase "exploser ACN." And you get English college students denied entry to the US because their texts contained threats to "destroy LA."

Your text messages, tweets, and facebook postings are being read by the same system.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

In a stunning development, Canadian researches have determined that nearly all Islamist extremist terrorism is in fact carried out by Muslims. Progressives express disbelief and outrage.

Follow-up research revealed that very few Irish extremists, abortion-clinic bombers, or Christian militants are Muslim, but suggested that the public continues to consider the Ku Klux Klan, IRA, Branch Davidians, and The Covenant, Sword and Arm of the Lord "isolated wackos not representative of true Christianity." Progressives are shocked by this double standard.

Re:What was it?

[EdgeCreeper]

Funnily enough, there was a story about this a couple of years ago. Well, sort of about that.

Re:What was it?

[horza]

Learning to fly a plane is not a criminal offence. I'm sure the terrorists rationalised the not landing bit at the time (eg next set of lessons when they have more cash). It's tough trying to spot trends in data, and mass surveillance just throws up more false positives than real leads. This is why targetting investigations, warranted phone tapping, undercover infiltration, and other traditional police methods are still the best. The variables are so complex we still need a human mind making the judgement calls.

Phillip.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFA "Allami says he sent the text message in French and used the word ''exploser,'' a term he claims is commonly used in finance to mean grow or succeed."

It also means to explode. Still not justification for how he's being treated.

Re:What was it?

[EdgeCreeper]

The sound of the truth, blowing him away.

Re:What was it?

[EdgeCreeper]

I bet they called it 'Operation Sandwich'.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

My bet would be that they were using Blackberry's private BBMs network. In Europe (except for the UK), government officials and high ranking businessmen are told not to use Blackberries, because all the traffic is said to be shared de-encrypted with the US/UK/Canadian/New Zealand/Australian intelligence's echelon program as part of their anglo-security intelligence sharing pact. It is said that even if you're sending a text or an email to an office worker just standing in an office down the hall from you, it doesn't matter where you are in Europe, and even if you're not in the UK, the text or email will first go through the UK so that it can first be indexed and analyzed by the echelon program before it can make its way back to your country and be delivered to your co-worker.

Except that companies (and governments) using BES can set their own encryption key that neither RIM nor CIA can decrypt.

So really BBM is way more secure than SMS.

And if the " intelligence's echelon" had full access to BBM's then the british wouldn't have had all the problems with people using BBM to coordinate riots.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

My, that's some anger issue you have there. I'm guessing you're thirteen and need to get laid badly.

Re:What was it?

[perryizgr8]

Gosh, thanks. I definitely didn't see the link. As I said earlier, the story doesn't include the entire text message which seems pretty important here. I know I'm supposed to just condemn this but I'd rather actually know what happened before freaking out. My apologies for wanting some context.

This is slashdot. Amerika is the center of all evil. Get with the programme.

ftfy. if you're gonna bash the us, do it properly.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psion_Organiser

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be American. In the USA it seems normal to demand millions for everything bad that happens to you. In most other countries, at least in Europe, and maybe Canada too, a judge will only award you actual damages.

Re:What was it?

[SonnyDog09]

Salem, je serai à New York le 25 janvier, on va exploser ACN, si vous avez des contacts référez-les moi.

Translates to: Salem, I will be in New York on January 25h, we will explode ACN, if you have contacts refer them to me.

Having read the actual message, I see nothing wrong with contacting the sender and letting him prove that he is merely a blowhard marketroid that is prone to use hyperbole. If the authorities had seen this message, not acted, and ACN had literally blown up, the monday morning quarterbacks would be howling for their heads.

Re:What was it?

[isorox]

He said "exploser" which is French for "explode", which he interprets as "succeed" or "blow them away". I am originally from France and I can't say I'm familiar with that specific wording, but that's how I would interpret it myself if I ever received such a message from a co-worker (unless of course I was a terrorist, in which case context means everything).

If I were a terrorist, I'd say something like "The pig is in the poke"

But then terrorists are usually dumb. They just have excellent lobbyists telling them what to do and excellent PR firms to spin what they do for the general public.

(A terrorist being someone that incites terror in the country. Paul Dacre is one of the biggest ones in the UK)

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh my god, you were frisked after setting off a metal detector!!! Quick, somebody call the ACLU!! The PTSD must be really rough after an incident like that, I really feel bad for you.

Re:What was it?

[pjt33]

Different countries have different procedures. In some countries I've been asked to go through again, but in the UK it's straight to the hand-held wand. It wouldn't surprise me that more than 20 years ago they used patdowns instead of hand-held wands.

Re:What was it?

[isorox]

Not just profiling. Grossly lazy policing. It seems that many places in the world the police are simply getting lazier and stupider.

Not just policing. Journalism is my bugbear. Years ago journalists would check facts spouted out by companies, but now PR has one, they just say "xxx has released a new widgit which 'cures cancer', according to their spokesperson joe bloggs"

In the past a quick call to a reputable scientific contact would have scrubbed the story. Nowadays they don't have the time or budget to make reputable contacts, so the PR dross becomes news.

I imagine it's the same for the police.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

From the article:
"Allami says he sent the text message in French and used the word ''exploser,'' a term he claims is commonly used in finance to mean grow or succeed."

Re:What was it?

[jpapon]

That's complete horseshit. They simply don't have the resources to pull aside everyone with darker skin, even if they wanted to.

I fly on a regular basis, and I see "light skinned" people get pulled aside just as much as I see "dark skinned" people get pulled aside.

I've seen a TSA agent wave a "dark skinned" bearded guy wearing a turban straight through, and then pull aside the little old white granny who was behind him.

Maybe your brother just has bad luck?

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I grew up in Québec and I can assure you that he translated that sentence perfectly (assuming the original french sentence was accurate).

Re:What was it?

[jpapon]

And if it was the latter, did they have a search warrant, or is this another case of the government conducting warrantless wiretaps?

I believe the text message was sent from Canada to his colleagues in the US. IANAL, but I don't believe that the government would need a warrant in such a case. Just as they don't need warrants to search your person at international borders. So yes, it probably was a warrantless wiretap, just not an illegal one.

Re:What was it?

[jpapon]

Actually, a better translation would be more along the lines of:

"Salem, I'll be in New York on the 25th of January, we're going to rock AVN, if you have contacts send them to me"

Re:What was it?

[fnj]

No, actually his translation was NOT wrong. It is stupid to claim his translation is "wrong". The word used translates directly to "explode". And even if you judge the nuance to mean the idiom "blow away", he says "we" are going to blow away "ACN" by name, not "the competition". And you should note that French speakers have posted here that they have never seen the term used in this idiomatic way.

exploser, verb: explode, blow up, detonate, go off, flame

It would be only prudent to want to interview this individual, talk to his colleagues, and maybe investigate his background. I think a simple friendly invitation to a short non-confrontational interview was warranted, but an arrest presuming guilty intention was not, absent the development of further evidence, and certainly accusing the wife's husband of terrorism was not. I would say that the remedy he is seeking makes sense.

Your translation is wrong. As the article points out directly below the text message: [google.com]

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a french Quebecer and the translation above is correct (using the exact message Mr. Allami sent, see link 2 levels above this). It would also cause me to red flag that comment if I saw it. I think the bigger issue here, and I believe this is what Mr. Allami is suing for, is how the police used this information to immediately assume he was a terrorist rather than use the information to start the invetigative process and see what turns up through discrete means. Instead they went and scared the bejeesus out of his family, his kid's school, and his neighbors and laid unfounded charges against him. Frankly, this makes the Quebec Police force (Surete du Quebec) look like a bunch of bumbling amateurs, at best.

As for the whole discussion about big brother watching over us, I'm on the fence as to which way I would lean. On the one side, I agree with keeping private conversations private, but on the other hand, how can intelligence find out about terrorist plots if they can't monitor communications? They can't just divine from thin air who will do what...I think it comes back to being able to trust the authorities to do the right thing with the information, but this example again shows that this trust has not yet been earned.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please do let us know when the KKK and IRA become a problem in Canada.

Re:What was it?

[TheLink]

At least one corporate security chiefs predicted such a scenario and prepared for it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Rescorla#WTC_risk_assessment

To me there are many strange things about 9/11. The Israeli white van incident for instance:
http://rense.com/general44/those.htm

Re:What was it?

[ConfusedVorlon]

really - let's assume for the sake of argument that he was planning to use a bomb to kill some people.

why would he send a text saying 'explode the competition'

it seems odd that an international terrorist would

1) encourage his team of associate killers by txt
2) target his team's competition at a trade fair (rather than say - the crowd in a train station, or all the people at the trade fair).

I say 'blast these idiot jobsworths'

you'll have to conclude for yourself whether I am implying the use of TNT.

Re:What was it?

[th3rmite]

I'm a blonde haired, blue eyed, white guy and I have personally been taken out of line for a random search when there was plenty of Arabic and browned skinned people in line.

I must have grown up in a small isolated pocket of America, because I had absolutely no idea that most Americans, and including the government, were all racists bigots who want to target every brown person and make them suffer indignities.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Basic moron level knee-jerking."

The usual american then.

Re:What was it?

[geogob]

You are creating a context where the use of the word "blast" is clearly not associated with the use of explosives.

The word "blast", like many other words in English, has a very variable meaning. French is a language where the use of word is much more precise. The whole way how you interpret words an sentences is different than in English and many non-francophones tend to forget that.

In the end, I believe there is not enough nformation to draw any conclusion, which ever way. But, on the contrary to the word "blast", the verb "exploser" has very clear and limited usages in French. These are even more limited in the French vocabulary generally in use in Quebec. And if you limit yourself to the colloquial French in Quebec, you'll notice that most usages of this verb are indeed aggressive, although not always referring to the usage of explosives.

But looking back at the context, he might have learned his French in France, and posses and use a totally different vocabulary set. This would make the interpretation even more difficult for a non-francophone analyst or translator expecting a specific context associated to a word, without even knowing the meaning could be different.

Languages are subtle. This is what all this is about.

Re:What was it?

[toddestan]

Do you honestly think a genuine terrorist would right out say in a text message to an accomplice that they are going to blow something up? Do you honestly think they are that naive and that stupid?

Well, there was that one guy who was going to blow up Times Square with a SUV full of fire crackers. Then again, I wouldn't worry much about stupid terrorists, as generally they don't cause much harm to anyone except themselves.

Re:What was it?

[cp.tar]

You know, all this reminds me of the Chinese monitoring system which interrupts your calls if you but mention the word “protest” in either Chinese or English (or any other language with the same word). I can’t imagine why this is so.

Re:What was it?

[failedlogic]

FTA:
"L'expression "exploser" la concurrence est régulièrement utilisée dans les discours de motivation pour signifier une victoire et ne porte donc pas à confusion, selon la plainte."

The sentence from the above clearly explains, or at least as far as the author of the article is concerned, that this expression is regularly used to highlight a victory in a competition. I'm french from Quebec. I could see someone using exploser colloquially as it does in English. Though not very often.

The article has this tidbit though:
"...par des agents de la Sûreté du Québec qui le soupçonnaient de tentative d'acte terroriste"

Which says that Quebec Police had him under surveillance under suspicion he was a terrorist. I think this combined with a text message that makes specific reference to New York is what got him arrested.

Interesting case. I certainly hope if he wins the lawsuit the $100k comes along with a very sincere apology and a change in policies.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems that he used "Exploser". To a non-French speaker, it may sound like "Blow up": "Explosez-les" means "Blow them away", not "Blow them up". Would he have written the text in English, he would probably have been left alone. His true crime was to use French.

Re:What was it?

[Mackeul]

Reposted since I didn't realize I originally posted as AC...

I am a french Quebecer and the translation above is correct (using the exact message Mr. Allami sent, see link 2 levels above this). It would also cause me to red flag that comment if I saw it. I think the bigger issue here, and I believe this is what Mr. Allami is suing for, is how the police used this information to immediately assume he was a terrorist rather than use the information to start the invetigative process and see what turns up through discrete means. Instead they went and scared the bejeesus out of his family, his kid's school, and his neighbors and laid unfounded charges against him. Frankly, this makes the Quebec Police force (Surete du Quebec) look like a bunch of bumbling amateurs, at best.

As for the whole discussion about big brother watching over us, I'm on the fence as to which way I would lean. On the one side, I agree with keeping private conversations private, but on the other hand, how can intelligence find out about terrorist plots if they can't monitor communications? They can't just divine from thin air who will do what...I think it comes back to being able to trust the authorities to do the right thing with the information, but this example again shows that this trust has not yet been earned.

Re:What was it?

[unitron]

What makes you think the translation was done by a human and not a computer program?

Re:What was it?

[tqk]

It would be only prudent to want to interview this individual, talk to his colleagues, and maybe investigate his background. I think a simple friendly invitation to a short non-confrontational interview was warranted, but an arrest presuming guilty intention was not, absent the development of further evidence, and certainly accusing the wife's husband of terrorism was not. I would say that the remedy he is seeking makes sense.

I agree, especially in that he's having to sue to get his good name back! It should have gone like:

"Beg your pardon, sir. We made a mistake. Here's your good conduct paper, and if this ever comes up again in the future, just refer that party to us and we'll be happy to clear it up for you. Sorry for the inconvenience."

Why does he have to sue for that now that the truth of the matter is clear for all to see?

Because he's Moroccan, and that's an Arab nation, and he's used the word "exploser" in the past. This is just asinine.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it would be more accurate to say that Bin Laden was the CEO of a Consulting Company, specializing in providing Marketing, Networking and Financial advise to violently inclined dissident groups.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

So you admit Quebecois is deviant. Finally.

Re:What was it?

[lazarus]

It was also said in French. And Quebec French at that. So this would have had to have been translated by someone in the US before it was decided that this was a threat. Possibly poorly translated...

But on top of that TFA is merely speculating about the cause of the arrest. Both the prosecutor and defendant are not talking specifics so we really don't know what the cause was. I doubt very much that the Americans built a terrorist profile from a single text message in a foreign language.

Re:What was it?

[tqk]

What damages to his reputation can he really claim since nobody heard about it until he decided to sue the authorities?

Re-read TFA. The only ones that matter to him are those who might employ him in finance, and he needs some sort of Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval to get a job in his line of work, or that's what I got out of it.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Au Québec, adorer veut dire aimer, aimer veut dire apprécier, apprécier veut dire tolérer et tolérer veut dire discréminer. Tourtière veut dire tarte à la viande. Et plein d'autres expressions manquées. Tout les jours les oreilles m'arrachent (tiens, une autre signification) à ententre les divers dialectes locaux (qui sont multiples.)

So, yeah, no, you're full of bullshit. (Just kind of countered in French the argument, feel free to translate, but it'll most likely be all lost in translation.)

Re:What was it?

[dochin]

Just speculating here, but Moroccan French might be more like French French than Canuck French.

Re:What was it?

[Jawnn]

If our governments are going to assume that we are all terrorists until proven innocent, the war on terror is over. We lost.

You must be new here. That truth has been well established. I can think of no finer illustration of that than TFA, wherein is the account of a man whose greatest "offenses" were his religion and ethnicity. Absent those two things, his "blow away the competition" message would not have been stretched to such ridiculous interpretation. Yes "ridiculous", as in "deserving of nothing but ridicule and scorn". Instead, the lawmakers and to a large degree, judges, continue to defend this kind of paranoid behavior as "protecting your liberty". Oh yes. The terrorists have won.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy grew up in Morroco, and he obviously learned French there, as we very seldom use the word "exploser" to mean "succeed" or "blow them away". That's not a case of "informal Quebecois French" in this specific case.

Also, like it was mentioned somewhere else on this thread, "exploser" is used in colloquial French in France to mean "blow them away": http://musique.premiere.fr/News-Musique/TOP-50-Rihanna-explose-la-concurrence-2946846.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Turn off the Alex Jones and go outside.

But if you do that you might get attacked by bees. More Americans die from bee stings than terror attacks.

Re:What was it?

[geogob]

Actually, you just cleverly illustrated part of my point, that is you can't translate - or interpret - something without its context. You also clearly illustrate how subtle language is, just as I explained it before.

Never did I imply words in French do not hold different significations or that they all hold clear definitions. I simply said that, in general, French is a language that's more precise than English. That the interpretation of the language is different than in English. It's simple, we think differently, we build our ideas differently and express them differently.

--
Merci, AC, d'avoir si bien illustré mon point qui avait peut-être, lui aussi, été perdu dans la traduction...

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Take off, eh!

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

A genuine bad person would have direct or 2nd gen state/covert training. They know to stay off any 'phone'

Ah, so now this can be changed to "only terrorists don't have cell phones"!! People like RMS.

Re:What was it?

[cold fjord]

Dancing Israelis

Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

He should have sued for an even million, even if he gave most for it away to a charity. Punitive damages are supposed to be excessive for use as an example to keep the morons from doing it again to someone else.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell, there was even a one-liner in Family Guy after Stewie used a song as a distraction to while getting his bag x-rayed at an airport with the joke, "Let's hope Osama Bin Laden doesn't know showtunes" followed by a cutaway of him singing showtunes.

With poor Youtube clip

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

My bet would be that they were using Blackberry's private BBMs network.

False. It was a regular text message. Text messages in every country are sent with no encryption. Text messages are easily read by the mobile carrier, governments, and others.

In Europe (except for the UK), government officials and high ranking businessmen are told not to use Blackberries, because all the traffic is said to be shared de-encrypted with the US/UK/Canadian/New Zealand/Australian intelligence's echelon program as part of their anglo-security intelligence sharing pact.

False. To start with, the blackberry platform has been audited, tested & certified by NATO & many governments that are not part of Echelon, such as Austria & Turkey:

http://us.blackberry.com/ataglance/security/certifications.jsp

Second, you really don't understand how the blackberry platform works. The message traffic is transmitted by your mobile carrier and Research in Motion, but that isn't a concern.

With a blackberry enterprise server, the AES decryption keys are located in two places - on the blackberry itself, and on the blackberry enterprise server (software that your company buys and installs in-house). The mobile carrier doesn't have the decryption keys (so they can't read the traffic), Research in Motion doesn't have the decryption keys (so they can't read the traffic), and the govt doesn't have the decryption keys.

There are no known successful attacks against AES aside from brute force, which is generally regarded by cryptographers as not feasible, even for a major government.

There are many governments that have threatened to ban blackberries, but none have threatened to ban iphone/android. Think about it.

It is said that even if you're sending a text or an email to an office worker just standing in an office down the hall from you, it doesn't matter where you are in Europe, and even if you're not in the UK, the text or email will first go through the UK

That simply isn't true. For knowledgeable network people it is easy to determine the path that network traffic follows. For example, given the volume of text messages, a mobile carrier in Hungary would notice if millions of messages are being routed outside the country instead of directly to their destination down the hall.

Look, I'm not saying that the government definitely isn't out to get you, but you should learn about the limitations of technology. Your scenario just isn't plausible.

And if you want to keep something secret, sending it in an unencrypted text message is a bad idea.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a slight difference between
a) a houseowner documenting a meteorite strike in his own property, and
b) a bunch of Israelis going to USA country to work for a front company, and documenting the 9/11 attacks while doing some peculiar things in the process.

I suppose you'd believe this document is an elaborate fake job too:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/62392807/Dancing-Israelis-FBI-document-Section-1-1138796-001-303A-NK-105536-Section-1-944861

See page 30-37, 86-87 of the 141 page doc.

Or go ahead and believe what Popular Mechanics tells you. Move along now, nothing to see here.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Beat me to it.

As I recall cell phones then were the size of a shoebox and you carried a briefcase around with it.

I think these days they laughingly refer to them as "brick" phones?

https://www.google.com/search?q=1989+cell+phone&hl=en&newwindow=1&site=webhp&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=2fguT9qcF8Ha0QHV6eTlCg&ved=0CGgQsAQ&biw=1542&bih=935

Re:What was it?

[tftp]

They had PDAs in 1989 that could actually fit in a pocket?!

They did. Casio was making a bunch. They were called "electronic notebooks" or something like that. They were clamshells with an LCD, a membrane keypad, and a small RAM, all powered by three Lithium batteries, IIRC. No computer interface, probably, except IRDA on some models (I guess.) They were pretty nice and I owned one. I still have it, though I have no idea where it is :-) They became popular right around 1990; they got wiped out by Palm Pilot.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except that companies (and governments) using BES can set their own encryption key that neither RIM nor CIA can decrypt.

False.

First, few set their own encryption key for BBM, because then you can't BBM chat with people outside your organization.

Second, BBM uses 3DES encryption. 3DES is a good algorithm with no known backdoors, but it's old and the keyspace is small. Brute-forcing every 3DES key isn't difficult for a government or even a small company. About a million in computer hardware will let you brute-force 3DES in a very short period of time. With Amazon or other cloud compute services, it may be even cheaper.

If you're trying to keep secrets from the CIA, BBM is a poor choice.

So really BBM is way more secure than SMS.

True, but not by much. By comparison, blackberry email uses AES, which has an enormous keyspace and generally is regarded as not-brute-forceable.

Re:What was it?

[HiThere]

For some reason it's been decided the the border watchers don't need search warrants. To me this seems strictly unconstitutional, but I'm not making the decisions.

N.B.: This position has been maintained by both Democrats and Republicans for decades. And the border is defined as anywhere within 100? miles of either a national border or an airport at which international air flights land. So it covers most of the population of the US.

Re:What was it?

[HiThere]

You are making assumption. People IN ALL JOBS including terrorist can be expected to come in a variety of different levels of skill and training. Being incompetent doesn't mean that you either are or aren't a bad person.

I think, however, that we can be relatively certain that the idiots who so interpreted this message are bad people, even if we don't know their skill level or average competency. Or even what their purpose was. (Did they have a quota to fill?)

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ditto for Spanish and French, firemen are accordingly called "bombers" (pumpers). I'll guess Italian and Romanian are the same.

US Customs: Occupation?
A: Bomber
Gitmo for you!

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, I doubt the authorities would have waited until the co-workers came back through border control to interrogate them if the complaints had really come from the co-workers themselves.

since there's proof that the FBI and CIA knew about the airplane hijacks in 9/11, how can you be sure they weren't at the border just waiting for the guys to leave the country? maybe that's how they deal with terrorists

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

nonsense! every true red-blooded Merican knows there's no such place as this fictitious "France".......There's only USA...nice try there tho Tex.....

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

intelligent people are NOT sought for your everyday average beat cop. below average intelligence is ultimately prized by those who hire officers. they're less likely to do any critical analysis of what has been asked of them and will just generally follow orders. much like the "thugs" in most gangster movies of old: all brawn and no brains.

the courts in the US are not concerned with justice. those who are employed by the system are only concerned with advancing their political careers and that happens when they appear to have a "tough on crime" stance. you can't be tough on crime if your constabulary posesses an ability to think critically and objectively.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no such thing as a simple friendly invitation to a short non-confrontational interview. What if you say "no, I don't want to"? Do they arrest you or say "well, ok, we'll be on our way. Sorry to have troubled you."

In the olden days, when detectives did detecting, a little wordplay like this might be grounds for further covert investigation or perhaps a search warrant or something, but why would you tip-off the bad guys that you are investigating them until you had actual real evidence that they were actually going to blow something up? Real evidence that would get them jailed. Saying some words won't get them jailed, it just seems to get people held under some bullshit pretence of "he hates ammuurrika so let's lock the fukka away".

Re:What was it?

[JuicyBrain]

Judging by his name, he is probably not a native of Quebec. He might have learned french from somewhere else in the world where they speak it, like Algeria (who has been colonized by the french) and then moved to Quebec. This is typical scenario that I have seen myself many times already.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

...We might have some idealogical differences with the Russians on occasion but they've always been sane responsible people with integrity and honor.

You must be a commie sympathizer. And likely that makes you a terrorist to boot!

Re:What was it?

[Ocker3]

I mean they ignored the guys learning to fly a plane and not land it which now looks pretty fucking stupid but at that time, when the only thing any terrorist had ever done with a plane was demand it take him to Cuba

Really? Because there were guys in Australia pulling the same stunt, the training companies reported them to the cops, and they got deported. Know where they went? The USA, where they disappeared.

Re:What was it?

[stdarg]

In reality terrorism is a highly successful tactic and the people with brains realize that and exploit it. You think Obama would be negotiating with the Taliban if they weren't involved in terrorism against us?

Look at Pakistan. If they didn't have their fingers in all the terrorist groups with funding, information, and hands on training, they wouldn't have half the influence they have. They openly play their puppets against us, warning that their nuclear weapons "may" fall into the wrong hands if they don't get their annual payoff, erm aid money.

Re:What was it?

[stdarg]

So you admit there is a lack of information on the details of the incident, how do you feel this confident in calling the police idiots?

He's probably being monitored, as you deduced. But there doesn't seem to be any explanation for that other than his origin? Where did you come up with that? Because his lawyer said so in the article? That's ridiculous.

Re:What was it?

[shutdown -p now]

If there were any other reason, it would have been given already, or else this guy would be charged with something. Since they didn't do either, it's reasonable to assume that they were indeed monitoring him for no good reason. That only leaves bad reasons, like racial profiling.

Re:What was it?

[Lunzo]

I'm pretty sure that your emails, BBMs, SMSs etc. all go through Echelon in the UK too. That's the whole point of there being more than one nation involved. e.g. the USA can spy on people in the UK then through intelligence sharing deals share that info with the UK agencies.

Re:What was it?

[dbIII]

That's a good point. So many people have forgotten that in the middle of the 1980s when Reagan was rattling sabres as hard as he could and the leadership of the USSR was drunk and insane that it came down to the guys in the missile silos if they were going to start WWIII or not. The Bond Movie "launch codes" stuff was bullshit, independant action was always deliberately there as an option on both sides. Even in the USA when launch codes were forced on the military the code was just a string of zeros so that whoever was on the spot could act without having to wait for a President to sober up or come out of hiding.

Re:What was it?

[RubberMallet]

I take it you haven't traveled much then?

I travel all over the world for work. I go to China on a regular basis, South Korea, South Africa, Kenya, all over Europe, Canada, USA, Peru, Brazil and so on. The ONLY country I have problems entering.. the USA. The only destination I fly to in the whole world that gives me hassle.. the USA. I, and every single passenger. have to go through personal one-on-one interviews before being allowed into the gate area... and not in some 3rd world airport.. this happens in "safe" zones like in Frankfurt Germany. I have to justify the contents of my work laptop, I'm forced to decrypt the contents (employer requires drive encryption) and show that there is nothing scary (at least 1 in 3 trips to the USA). I have to justify who bought my tickets (which must be purchased by credit card or bank transfer, not cash), why I'm traveling, my personal relationship if I'm traveling with my wife (we often travel together). God forbid you have brown skin... that's a recipe for even more detention, and more grilling.

On my last flight to New York, one poor lady and her 4 year old son were grilled for almost 2 hours before being allowed into the gate area... her crime.. slightly elevated melanin... in other words she had a nice tan. The gate interview staff were VERY rude and downright mean to her... how do I know? I was interviewed at the podium next to her and overheard most of their conversation during my own grilling - which went terribly wrong because when I was asked "Has your laptop been recently repaired?", I stupidly and honestly answered "Yes".... NEVER EVER say Yes... even if it's true. Lie.. say No... I was milliseconds from having my laptop confiscated, and only after pleading my case did they agree to return it to me.

Yes millions fly to the US every year, and all those millions are now subjected to an insane level of paranoid investigation and harassment. Most people I work with are now refusing to fly to the US. They will fly anywhere in the world but the US.. why? Not because they hate the US... it's because of the American "security" which is more hassle than countries you'd traditionally associate with border hassle like ... China... (which is dead easy to enter if you have your visa sorted before flying there).

Re:What was it?

[Boscrossos]

True, but given that you can't be 100% accurate, would you rather they go too far into the false positives (take cases too seriously) or the false negatives (leave serious cases uninvestigated)?

Re:What was it?

[dotar]

You're welcome to raise a red flag. What you're not welcome to do is arrest him, raid his home, abuse his wife, accost his workmates, and ruin his reputation based on a single red flag. When people act on insufficient evidence, they get into and create trouble, have we not yet learnt this as a race?

Re:What was it?

[tehcyder]

So to summarise your anecdote, 23 years ago you were briefly delayed and subjected to a pat down because you were too lazy/stupid to take a metallic object out of your pocket and put it on a tray along with your watch when you went through a security scanner.

Fuck me, it's like Nazi Germany all over again.

Re:What was it?

[tehcyder]

I think there must be a lot of severely repressed homosexuals posting to slashdot, to judge from the hysteria associated with being patted down by another man.

It only counts as gay if you kiss each other afterwards.

Re:What was it?

[metacell]

Or perhaps the smart terrorists do not sign up for suicide missions.

Re:What was it?

[metacell]

Then let's not blame individuals, and instead ask ourselves, "Is there any point in gathering intelligence by automatic mass surveillance, when the number of false positives is so huge they drown out the true positives?"

Re:What was it?

[Tsingi]

America gets to vet people flying on internal Canadian flights

link?

Re:What was it?

[metacell]

When I read statements like yours I'm often left wondering, why do you think the American security services will single you out of the other 64 million travelers to the United States per year? And do you truly believe that nobody is arrested due to misunderstanding or mistake in your or other countries?

Not many of those 64 million travellers are arrested, but quite a few of them have to go through scanners, have their laptops searched, happen to have the same name as someone on a no-fly list, etc.

And, yes, right now this problem is worse in the USA than in the rest of the Western world. The UK is probably worse with regards to cameras in public places and databases with private information, but going after what the newspapers reveal, the USA seems to lead in flimsy arrests, intrusive searches, and freezing financial assets without legal recourse.

If you want your country to be a paragon of liberty again, you need to work hard.

Re:What was it?

[Tsingi]

And the moral of the story is? Dont travel to the US.

The #1 reason why the US was quickly ruled out as my holiday destination this year is because of the horror stories like this.

When I read statements like yours I'm often left wondering, why do you think the American security services will single you out of the other 64 million travelers to the United States per year?

I was under the impression that they singled out everyone, body scans, frisking, generally treating you like dirt.

Mostly I'm under that impression because it's in the news every day. My policy is no travel to the US as well.

Re:What was it?

[Tsingi]

The #1 reason why the US was quickly ruled out as my holiday destination this year is because of the horror stories like this.

You're overreacting. You act like this is some kind rule of travel here. Yes, we will be targeting YOU, and only YOU, because you all know who you are and want to fuck with YOU. BS. We don't need you here anyway.

You don't need me their either. And yes, you target everyone. Your country has become a fascist regime.

Re:What was it?

[tehcyder]

It's probably a self fulfilling prophecy now, because he was stopped the first time, he got nervous the next time he flew and so looked potentially suspicious, then after being stopped twice, every time he flies now he is more and more nervous/pissed off and so looks even more suspicious.

Re:What was it?

[metacell]

Who do you think alerted the Canadian police?

Re:What was it?

[metacell]

Sweden has punitive damages for some IP (Imaginary Property) crimes. The copyright law was changed to include punitive damages after pressure from the USA. This was one of the things revealed in the Cablegate papers.

Re:What was it?

[tehcyder]

The article says that he told his colleagues to "blow away" the competition, so most likely it read as, "Blow them away." And it was misinterpreted.

Indeed -- but misinterpreted by whom? His colleagues, or by someone who was spying on his text messages? And if it was the latter, did they have a search warrant, or is this another case of the government conducting warrantless wiretaps?

Do you seriously think that the security services get a search warrant before acting on any information they receive from their eavesdropping?

Re:What was it?

[metacell]

This is a site with users from all over the world. America is the center of all evil. Get with the program.

Fixed that for you.

Re:What was it?

[tehcyder]

how sure are you that you're not being spied on as well? and I mean you and everyone else who uses cell phones.

With the information about Echelon in the UK, I would assume that all communications are being monitored (email, phone, internet, whatever) if I was a terrorist anyway.

Re:What was it?

[metacell]

Thanks for this. While it doesn't really justify what happened to him, I can definitely see why saying this would be deemed suspicious:

"Salem, I will be in New York on January 25, ACN is going to explode, if you have contacts refer them to me"

The problem is that with all SMS traffic going back and forth over the globe every day, tens of thousands must end up sounding suspicious taken out of context. If it's ground to investigate someone, the police will have a HUGE number of false positives to investigate. I'm questioning whether this type of surveillance is of any use AT ALL for stopping terrorism.

Re:What was it?

[JustOK]

check out bill C-42

Re:What was it?

[tehcyder]

I think this combined with a text message that makes specific reference to New York is what got him arrested.

He already had "explode" and "New York", so it's probably just as well he didn't include the word "plane" in his text.

Re:What was it?

[tehcyder]

Well the obvious explanation would be that he is, in fact, a terrorist, because innocent men don't have the police monitoring their phones...

Re:What was it?

[JoeMerchant]

I think there must be a lot of severely repressed homosexuals posting to slashdot, to judge from the hysteria associated with being patted down by another man.

  It only counts as gay if you kiss each other afterwards.

For my perspective on it, it was just kind of amusing to have to stand there and wait for the 60 year old cross between Benny Hill and Warwick Davis show up to do the patdown, and he was very professional about the whole thing - a little worrying that it might cause me to miss my connection, but otherwise harmless.

However, with U.S. TSA agents especially, on an exceptional day I could imagine the whole thing devolving into a cavity search just to amuse the "agent" - there's nothing good about TSA hiring practices.

Re:What was it?

[JoeMerchant]

I think mine was a Casio - the cool thing about it was that it had an acoustic phone dialer on it, so you could press it up to the telephone and it would dial it for you, including all those messed up phone credit card access numbers. It was about the size and weight of the cell phone I carry today.

Re:What was it?

[JoeMerchant]

So to summarise your anecdote, 23 years ago you were briefly delayed and subjected to a pat down because you were too lazy/stupid to take a metallic object out of your pocket and put it on a tray along with your watch when you went through a security scanner.

Fuck me, it's like Nazi Germany all over again.

Parent was bitching about US TSA - my point was that London is no better, actually a bit worse in some ways. At least in the US they let you empty your pockets and try walking through again.

Re:What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

government warrantless wiretaps for everyone, my friend. where you been hiding? obviously, deep enough to have missed the NAZI take over of the US. George Bush's war against the CITIZEN.

Re:What was it?

[mcgrew]

You have to be careful what you say at all times these days. Under my workplaces' "zero tolerance" violence policy, a friend of mine was given a month's suspension for saying he was going to "take down" a co-worker. The message read to me like "take down" meant simply to get a troublemaker in trouble, but the troublemaker was his boss' friend.

Meanwhile I was verbally threatened with violence ("I'll kick you fucking ass you son of a bitch") by a fat old idiot PhD (I never guessed someone as stupid as this guy could get a doctorate), and was overheard by my boss' assistant. He got a verbal reprimand.

Glad I'm retiring in two years. I hate big organizations. You never see this stuff in a small shop

Re:What was it?

[catman]

And how does this relate to an incident at Heathrow Airport, London? You know, London in the UK?

Re:What was it?

[interval1066]

You don't need me their either. And yes, you target everyone. Your country has become a fascist regime.

1) I've found people who say that are usually calling the kettle black, 2) They are usually jealous.

Re:What was it?

[Tsingi]

You don't need me their either. And yes, you target everyone. Your country has become a fascist regime.

1) I've found people who say that are usually calling the kettle black, 2) They are usually jealous.

If the US had their way, every would be fascist. So far they have had the most luck manipulating politics (by threat or force) in third world countries.

In any event, wrong on both counts.

Re:What was it?

[catman]

Exactement. And besides, a Moroccan is unlikely to use Canadian French. (I understand some of la langue métropolitaine, but spoken Canadian French just bounces off me ...)

Re:What was it?

[CODiNE]

Actually it was caused by an innocent misunderstanding and translation error.

Bob said "Hey Steve, why don't you go pick up salami for us?"

Steve heard this uncommon local slang for "Go to the store and buy us Salami sandwiches" and misunderstood it to mean "Arrest S.Allami as a terrorist".

It's a completely understandable mistake and shows not that the US government has gone overboard with fears of terrorism, but their love of juicy salami sandwiches. Keep your eye on government employee waistlines.

Re:What was it?

[Actually, I do RTFA]

You left out all the real-life examples, from WWI on, of using a plane as a weapon.

Also, that's a very US-centric attitude. Entebbe was a different kind of beast, for instance.

Re:What was it?

[Falconhell]

Sure Ac, and you can let us know when islamic terrorism becomes a problem in Canada. Are you just stupid of mailicious?

Re:What was it?

[stephanruby]

False. To start with, the blackberry platform has been audited, tested & certified by NATO & many governments that are not part of Echelon, such as Austria & Turkey:

http://us.blackberry.com/ataglance/security/certifications.jsp

Here is a citation for France. And here is a citation for Germany doing the same. And even Sweden and the EU issued the same warnings (although perhaps this was done just informally, as I can't seem to find the citations for those).

You made two exaggerations in your response. You shouldn't have said "many governments that are not part of Echelon". You should have said "_two_ governments that are not part of Echelon". Two governments doesn't make "many".

Also assuming Turkey and Austria were not coerced/pressured by the US/UK/Anglo coalition in their audits (an assumption I'm not willing to concede yet, because I've seen such coercions take place), it's not the "blackberry platform" which was audited by those "many" non-Echelon governments, it's just the "Blackberry Enterprise Solution" that was. This distinction is important because it's also common wisdom among high level people to keep two different phones, one for Enterprise use and one for personal use.

A European non-UK blackberry phone for personal use would not be going through company servers, but it would be going through the private BBM network in the UK (there is no way to opt out of that as per my understanding) and it would only give the user a false sense of security about being able to share personal sensitive information through it (when all of its text transmissions were indexed and analyzed through the Echelon program).

There are many governments that have threatened to ban blackberries, but none have threatened to ban iphone/android. Think about it.

"The German ministry was first advised to avoid using BlackBerry and iPhone devices in November 2009" (emphasis mine). Think about what? Your logic is flawed. Like you said yourself, some countries like the UA Emirates were upset because they couldn't view the traffic, but nothing of that means that RIM doesn't share its de-encrypted data with the Echelon program (and the country RIM originally originated from, Canada, which is indeed part of that Echelon program).

For example, given the volume of text messages, a mobile carrier in Hungary would notice if millions of messages are being routed outside the country instead of directly to their destination down the hall.

Yes, I do work and talk with some of those people. This is _my_ industry. And this is what some of those people have told me. The fact that I could back up my claims with articles from places like the BBC was sheer googling luck on my part.

And if you want to keep something secret, sending it in an unencrypted text message is a bad idea.

If you want to keep something secret, sending it as a message to anyone is a bad idea. But putting general platitudes aside, there is only one thing worse than using a knowingly unsecure communication channel, and that's the idea that you might be using an unsecure channel unknowingly (because then you'd be mislead and you simply wouldn't know to keep your mouth shut because of that false sense of security).

After all, it wouldn't take much to compromise high level people in an international negotiation. All you'd need to know is that one or two of the negotiators had used their personal Blackberry device to commit fraud, commit insider trading, or to coordinate a hot affair with their bosse's wife.

Re:What was it?

[theun4gven]

This depends entirely upon the costs and likelihoods for each. If the costs to the public are severe and the likelihood of a serious case happening is very small (even if its costs are large), I'd much rather go too far into the leaving serious cases uninvestigated category.

Re:What was it?

[Fjandr]

Alright, so another case of incompetence at some level then. If there is not a person involved who is capable of understanding the distinctions of the original language, someone in the chain is guilty of gross negligence. It doesn't really matter how the translation was performed; someone is incompetent to have jumped to this conclusion from the terms supplied in the article. Maybe the article is biased, or flat-out incorrect, but in order to comment at all certain assumptions must be made. Mine are to take the article at face value unless and until I have a reason to do otherwise.

Re:What was it?

[unitron]

And my assumptions are that the government isn't that competent and careful when something trips the "terrist" trigger and all the sirens sound and the red lights flash. Just ask Jean Charles de Menezes. Assuming you bump into him in the afterlife, that is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

Re:What was it?

[Fjandr]

You'll get no disagreement from me on that point.

Much worse

[Squiddie]

They arrested him because of a simple text message, not because any actions that he took. Just speech. That's a lot worse, if you ask me.

Re:Much worse

[timmy.cl]

Also, he is Moroccan native, and his seemingly arabic name probably doesn't help him either. So much for racial and origin equity.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, it's quite bad -- but this is Canada, where there is no absolute protection of speech analogous to the US's first amendment, so it's possibly legal. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms does protect "freedom of ... expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication", but the whole thing comes with a disclaimer:

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

So they're basically in the same situation the US has been in ever since SCOTUS Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, scraping for a justification to punish people for speaking against the draft, invented the "clear and present danger" test. (His decision includes the now proverbial "falsely shouting fire in a theatre" example.) If the legislature can make a general law limiting speech in a "justifiable" manner, and occasional ensnares someone like Mr. Allami, that's just fine.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't matter. Here is how the average idiot American (the people who end up on JURIES - which is fucking TERRIFYING) perceives something like this:

"He's obviously guilty - otherwise the government wouldn't be looking into him."

Re:Much worse

[ark1]

I doubt it was simply a text message and more likely a chain of events that ended with the text message. Maybe this is a case of mistaken identity but I can bet someone with that name must have been on some sort of watch list for doing questionable activities or associating with questionable people. I doubt we will ever know the full story.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

BTW, the current SCOTUS test isn't C&PD. It's now referred to as "Strict Scrutiny" as the current court has largely held to that. You have the right to be a ******** in public, like running antigay slurs at a marine's funeral.

Re:Much worse

[SomePgmr]

While they obviously botched this one, I suspect you're right.

If they were simply kicking down doors for everyone with a name like his that sent a single, only vaguely suspicous sounding text message to coworkers, without any other pretext, we'd have a hundred articles like this every day.

Though that doesn't excuse what happened here.

Re:Much worse

[TheGratefulNet]

why would you doubt it was 'only' a text message?

you don't think we're all hyped up and afraid of any snap or twig that breaks?

we're on a knife-edge here.

oops, I said knife.

they'll come for me, next. if you don't see me post in my usual style, you'll know what happened to me.

(seriously, why would you disbelieve that they pounced down on him for just that? I would assume that it would take very little for the paranoid 'watchers' to freak out.)

Re:Much worse

[russotto]

I doubt it was simply a text message and more likely a chain of events that ended with the text message. Maybe this is a case of mistaken identity but I can bet someone with that name must have been on some sort of watch list for doing questionable activities or associating with questionable people. I doubt we will ever know the full story.

Another fucking just-worlder.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

You're all missing the obvious. Forget his religion, origins, looks or name. Look at this, FTA:
"His case has surfaced after another story about an unexpected national-security case, triggered by what appeared to be a meaningless comment."
And that bit about the two Britts a few days ago ...
Doesn't that mean that every bit of data passing through the USA is monitored?

Re:Much worse

[stanlyb]

Exactly my first impression too.So, in one sentence, EVERYTHING IS ALREADY MONITORED. Even google, the moment you google: bl%^$&^%$&%^$& the motherfuckers, and you are suspect zero.

Re:Much worse

[girlintraining]

It wasn't speech. Speech is what comes out of your mouth. He used an electronic device, which means it's no longer speech, ergo the authorities were justified in detaining him, destroying his life, plastering his picture all over the newspapers, telling him, his family, and everybody he knew he was a terrorist, making repeated threats against his person, etc.

The favored tactic of the oppressors is to simply redefine things. In the United States, for example, citizenship can now be revoked without a trial and the person deported, even if they were born in this country and never left, because the authorities simply redefined what a citizen is to get around that pesky constitution. In this case, since he didn't actually speak the words, but instead typed them, he is not entitled to any free speech protections. Or any protection. At all. Ever.

Re:Much worse

[jamstar7]

they'll come for me, next. if you don't see me post in my usual style, you'll know what happened to me.

Good news and bad news for ya.

Bad news first. You're joinin us at Gitmo.

Good news is, it's Salisbury steak night! Hurry up, it's goin' fast!

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly my first impression too.So, in one sentence, EVERYTHING IS ALREADY MONITORED. Even google, the moment you google: bl%^$&^%$&%^$& the motherfuckers, and you are suspect zero.

So am I going to guantanamo for saying "Fuck the US president" ?
Damn, I forgot to wear the tinfoil hat.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

They arrested him because of a simple text message, not because any actions that he took. Just speech. That's a lot worse, if you ask me.

And this isn't the only western democracy trying it on; ... see also UK; Police slap cuffs on Punk SMSer, 3rd June 2004 ... see also AU; Police track text message senders, December 23, 2005

Re:Much worse

[frisket]

The real core of the problem seems to be that the police force is composed of morons.

Re:Much worse

[Smauler]

I doubt it was simply a text message and more likely a chain of events that ended with the text message. Maybe this is a case of mistaken identity but I can bet someone with that name must have been on some sort of watch list for doing questionable activities or associating with questionable people.

Yes, I'm sure the authorities must have had it right all along, and despite there being no evidence we are able to see for this person being connected to any illegal activity, it's fine that they persecuted him.

Re:Much worse

[Cstryon]

I have a great experiment! And I am being semi-serious, let's all send meaningless comments, questions, whatever to a friend, partner, coworker, or spouse, that could be trigger something like this! Here's a good one:
"This place sucks. Let's blow this joint!"

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Unusually large/frequent purchases of tinfoil, and visits to websites on hat-making, are also now being monitored.

Re:Much worse

[Grumbleduke]

It doesn't matter. Here is how the average idiot American (the people who end up on JURIES - which is fucking TERRIFYING) perceives something like this: "He's obviously guilty - otherwise the government wouldn't be looking into him."

Sadly I've had that argument used against me when discussing issues of detention without trial or charge (such as relating to this year's NDAA-thingamy, or a UK case a few years ago); the argument is something along the lines that it doesn't matter if the people 'arrested' don't get the right to a trial, or an opportunity to plead their case, because the government/state/police are only allowed to use the law on evil terrorists, so anyone picked up must be one - the government wouldn't arrest someone if they didn't know for sure.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a great experiment! And I am being semi-serious, let's all send meaningless comments, questions, whatever to a friend, partner, coworker, or spouse, that could be trigger something like this! Here's a good one:
"This place sucks. Let's blow this joint!"

I used to send my wife texts with random dangerous words in it.. got boring when no one showed up at my house though.

Re:Much worse

[the_bard17]

As a spiritual Christian (never had much need for religious ceremony), I say bring 'em on. If the U.S. government wants to qualify me as a terrorist for this post and "deport" me to G-Bay, maybe they'll get to me before I get to my shotgun and bring some of them with me to meet my Maker. I'm fairly certain He'll forgive me, given the circumstances.

If they manage to haul me away intact, I expect I'll be in for some pretty rough treatment. But you'll be amazed what a man can go through when he believes there's something better waiting for him on the Other Side. If the government thinks the Muslims over in the Middle East are crazy, wait 'til they deal with a Christian country boy.

Don't tread on me.

Re:Much worse

[number11]

It wasn't speech. Speech is what comes out of your mouth. He used an electronic device, which means it's no longer speech

Oh, come on. Money is speech in the US. Yet something you type into your phone isn't?

This was in Canada, though. They don't exactly have free speech up there, like we do. Usually, I think that means they do better. Stories like this, though, remind me that their authorities feel they have something to prove to their cousins to the south (or merely don't want to screw up their plan to buy a retirement home in Florida), and if US authorities can be morons, in Canada there are those who feel that means they must be even more moronic.

Re:Much worse

[evanism]

To your wife, that would highly offensive!

Re:Much worse

[dryeo]

This is Canada where section 2 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms states,

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

        (a) freedom of conscience and religion;
        (b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
        (c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
        (d) freedom of association.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Two_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms
Emphasis mine. Note it was passed in 1982 so communicating electronically was already common.
Unluckily there are weasel words in section 1,

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_One_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms#Text

Of course in practice America seems to have similar limitations on Free Speech depending on the mood of the Supreme Court.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Your god is made up. If they want to take you down, the moment they realise you're armed, they'll deprive you of the opportunity to shoot any of them and will kill you with a sniper. Your existence will end, and there will be no reward for your faith.

Re:Much worse

[amiga3D]

Who knows, maybe you'll get to sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom.

Re:Much worse

[currently_awake]

If you missed the bit about the secret rooms at the telephone exchanges, then yes they listen to everything. And as it is impossible to have humans handle that volume it means automated word/phrase monitoring. The intelligence agencies (foolishly) believe that with computers they can catch all the bad guys just by spying on everyone and letting the computers sort it all out. Eventually they will re-discover that effective intelligence gathering doesn't work like that. Until then we just complain and hope to avoid trouble.

Re:Much worse

[currently_awake]

The government of Canada has the legal right to ignore the constitution (google notwithstanding clause). In the USA they just make up an excuse why it doesn't apply (google unlawful enemy combatant).

Re:Much worse

[the_bard17]

Says you.

Neither one of us has any proof to convince the other, just words. I'll settle for my beliefs, you settle for yours. Just don't go treading on me or my self-evident rights, and we'll get along just fine.

When we cross over (and we all do, at some point or another, like it or not), I hope I'll be able to say "I told you so." If not, well... it won't matter much anyway, will it?

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's not, but not for lack of trying. I assume you didn't follow the discovery of the fiber optic wiretaps by the NSA on domestic Intenet communications, and the amazing legal immunity Congress gave the NSA and AT&T for such a fundamental violation of our rights against unwarranted search and seizure, in this case of private communications, medical records, fiscal records, and privileged communications with lawyers?

Systems that include encryption, such as Skype, build in provisions to monitor communications for "legal" purposes as a matter of course. They can't get the permits to sell goods or services overseas without such backdoors. Look into the US regulations on encryption to see the very large knife to the throat that the government holds against business that provide secure software overseas. The result is that *domestic* communications is effectively unencrypted.

Re:Much worse

[cold fjord]

So am I going to guantanamo for saying "Fuck the US president" ?

No, that will only get you on the progressive lecture circuit.

If you want to go to Guantanamo you will have to join Al Qeda or an affiliate, conduct terrorist attacks (blowing up school buses, ambushing police officers, killing elected officials, that sort of terrorism. Note: that is terrorism, not, "terrorism". ) and be captured instead of killed. Even then your chances are slim since Guantanamo has never held even 1,000 people ever. I don't think your chances are good.

Re:Much worse

[dryeo]

Yes, I know. After posting I thought I should have mentioned that. I will point out that so far in 30 years the not withstanding clause has only seriously been used by Quebec to enforce their language sign law which while not good for our freedoms is not that bad either.
For completeness, here is the real Achilles heal of our Charter of Rights and Freedoms

The section states:

        33. (1) Parliament or the legislature of a province may expressly declare in an Act of Parliament or of the legislature, as the case may be, that the Act or a provision thereof shall operate notwithstanding a provision included in section 2 or sections 7 to 15.

        (2) An Act or a provision of an Act in respect of which a declaration made under this section is in effect shall have such operation as it would have but for the provision of this Charter referred to in the declaration.

        (3) A declaration made under subsection (1) shall cease to have effect five years after it comes into force or on such earlier date as may be specified in the declaration.

        (4) Parliament or the legislature of a province may re-enact a declaration made under subsection (1).
        (5) Subsection (3) applies in respect of a re-enactment made under subsection (4).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_Thirty-three_of_the_Canadian_Charter_of_Rights_and_Freedoms

Without this compromise the Charter would probably never have happened and the reasoning was to have a way to ban child pornography if the Supreme Court ruled that it was a form of freedom of expression. Still better then the States where they just ignore their Bill of Rights whenever needed. Note that the not withstanding clause only applies to some rights, not the right to replace Parliament every 5 years max and it is set up in such a way that an election will happen before it expires so ultimately the people decide whether to ignore a fundamental right or freedom.

Re:Much worse

[cp.tar]

Actually, it is enough to be suspected of such actions.

Re:Much worse

[Zumbs]

The government of Canada has the legal right to ignore the constitution (google notwithstanding clause). In the USA they just make up an excuse why it doesn't apply (google unlawful enemy combatant).

You forgot that areas in close proximity to US borders are Constitution free zones, as described by the ACLU. And "close proximity" is 100 miles. Remember that if you ever need a restraining order ...

Re:Much worse

[mapkinase]

As a Muslim, in as much I would like to represent this as yet another example of anti-Muslim profiling (which does exist), in this case we see the tip of particular law enforcement unit idocy of the iceberg of "antiterrorism" hysteria:

Clearly the context of other messages would provide them with enough data to skip this message, but they chose to look stupid instead of risking to be sorry.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

What is christian in your attitude? Are you sure you don't call yourself christian just to be on the safe side of the majority if things turn ugly?

Cause to me, Christ would be flaggerbasted if he hears you...

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, obviously it is being monitored -- by software that must be the security equivalent of Clippy in terms of its reliabiliy and insight. Seriously, what kind of tool (software or human) triggers an invasion of someone's home by the mere mention of the word "bomb" or "explosion"? They waste their time going after this guy, ruining his life unnecessarily, while any genuine terrorist with half a brain is going to come up with some kind of code word system that won't be detected at all. Worst of all, these false positive examples confirm for everyone that monitoring is going on, so that when there is a real terrorist they'll make sure to be cautious.

Where was the investigation to see if the risk was real before moving in? Do it right, and you might be able to quickly confirm that it is a false positive with no one the wiser. Instead, it's "send in the assault team now!"

That's a helluva job you're doing there, police state.

Re:Much worse

[cheekyjohnson]

Honestly, you need to tell them that we could eliminate more terrorist scum by passing a bill that allows the government to require that security cameras be installed in everyone's homes (so that they can more effectively catch terrorists and criminals). Anyone who objects to this is obviously a criminal/terrorist (or both!). No way the government (or some of the people inside it) could be corrupt! No way mistakes could be made! Nothing to hide, nothing to fear. And it's for the children.

Re:Much worse

[isorox]

Exactly my first impression too.So, in one sentence, EVERYTHING IS ALREADY MONITORED. Even google, the moment you google: bl%^$&^%$&%^$& the motherfuckers, and you are suspect zero.

So am I going to guantanamo for saying "Fuck the US president" ?

Monica?

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

It is. The DoS, Verizon, Pentagon, Lockheed etc all use basically every system out there that exists to monitor internet traffic. They have a shit ton of tv screens in a room with everyone of them running. Verizon could find something and notify the FBI. or the DoS might find something and alert homeland security. One of the companies that makes these packet sniffer/replayers is Niksun.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you missed that bit a few years ago about AT&T & Company colluding with FBI and CIA to do exactly this?

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually live in Canada, and anyone who does knows that the Charter matters about as much to our current administration as the constitution does to their U.S. counterparts. The rules are different now, quite plain and simple. The American way of doing things now is "fuck rights, monitor everything, surveil everything, imprison everyone." The Canadian way is swiftly becoming "just do everything exactly like the Americans, but publicly berate them for it so it's not so obvious."

Re:Much worse

[cold fjord]

In the United States, the only thing that showing contempt for the president will get you suspected of is being a member of a different political party than the president.

That's it.

Re:Much worse

[GameboyRMH]

Same here. I've even seen that argument used *on slashdot* where the aerodynamics of fecal matter are supposedly poor.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

why would you doubt it was 'only' a text message?

I'm not the person you asked, but I doubt it, because I've only heard one side of the story. When a one-sided story appears in the press, the "facts" always change when the other side finally speaks. Always.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

And that bit about the two Britts a few days ago ... Doesn't that mean that every bit of data passing through the USA is monitored?

Ummm, no. The Brits were using twitter. Twitter is publicly available for anyone to listen in. No need for a secret shadowy govt program.

Which isn't to say that the US isn't trying to nefariously monitor everything, but public tweets isn't a good indicator.

Re:Much worse

[tftp]

The intelligence agencies (foolishly) believe that with computers they can catch all the bad guys just by spying on everyone and letting the computers sort it all out.

Why do you think that intelligence agencies don't have enough intelligence to understand that? They do; they monitor everything they can not because they hope to find bad guys but because they want to deny use of the medium to the bad guys. Then they have to use more complex - and more error-prone - methods, like sending each other postal mail, or meeting in person.

They still can call each other and speak in code, but that's also a complication, and urgent, new information cannot be communicated if you don't have a code word set and remembered by every participant. This also increases the risk of misunderstanding; and if you speak extensively about meaningless things (as you have to do when speaking in code) you provide evidence against yourself. "There were thirty nine irons on the window sill. 'This safe house had been exposed,' realized Shtirlitz, 'three irons are missing.'" (link)

Re:Much worse

[tftp]

The real core of the problem seems to be that the police force is composed of morons.

You are looking at it from the wrong end. Think in reverse. What kind of people would willingly work as police officers? Will you, with IQ of 200, want to be in the street, in the middle of a ghetto, when it's freezing rain and 3am? If you have IQ of 200 you have better job opportunities, and you know that.

Note also that duties of police officers require them to be healthy and physically strong. How many smart people do you know who could meet that requirement? You don't get smart by bodybuilding; in fact, many smart persons would find a gym a waste of time.

And note that Sherlock Holmes did not work for the police. He actually worked against the police once (and performed poorly.) Police forces all over the world are not built for geniuses.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like you're neither spiritual nor Christian. You seemed to have missed the "blessed are the meek" bit.

You can't argue with him about the "kill you with a sniper" though. That's pretty much a given.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

Not long ago at all, applicants for employment as police officers (in many departments, not all) were rejected during prescreening if they tested too well. There were a number of suits over this and a couple 60 minutes segments. I suspect it isn't done anymore.

The idea was that a department would dump tons of time and money into training a bright person, then they'd find out it's a thoughtless, boring job and leave. The department is left having to fill a position and is out the money they put into the former employee.

Re:Much worse

[stdarg]

There's no evidence available to you either way so where do you get off labeling it as persecution?

If it's just persecution why aren't there literally 1000+ of these events every single day? If "the man" is trying to wage a war against Muslims, they are doing a piss poor job of it. At this rate it'll be, oh, never until they're all deported.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to go to Guantanamo you will have to join Al Qeda or an affiliate, conduct terrorist attacks

Or you just have to find somebody who is - thanks to monetary incetives - willing to point at you and claim you did any of the above.

Re:Much worse

[Anonymous Coward]

"Let's blow this joint!"

Terrorism, prostitution and possession with intent to distribute in one short sentence. Well done. You're going places.

Re:Much worse

[tehcyder]

They arrested him because of a simple text message, not because any actions that he took. Just speech. That's a lot worse, if you ask me.

Shut up with the libertarian bullshit. In the real world, if an actual terrorist had sent a message about blowing up New York, of coure the police would have acted on it and arrested him, and not just sat back and said "ooh dear, the Constitution prevents us from infringing on his right to free speech and so we'll have to let him go on arranging his plot".

If a bloke with a stick says he is going to hit you, you are entitled to twat the fucker first before he does anything about it.

Re:Much worse

[tehcyder]

You are looking at it from the wrong end. Think in reverse. What kind of people would willingly work as police officers? Will you, with IQ of 200, want to be in the street, in the middle of a ghetto, when it's freezing rain and 3am? If you have IQ of 200 you have better job opportunities, and you know that.

You don't consider it possible that police work might actually be interesting to some people, or that they might want to feel they're helping their community by catching criminals?

No, you're right, anyone intelligent can only have the goal of working behind a desk making themselves lots of money.

Re:Much worse

[tehcyder]

You are a loony.

Re:Much worse

[tftp]

You don't consider it possible that police work might actually be interesting to some people, or that they might want to feel they're helping their community by catching criminals?

Such people are called idealists. They are enrolling into Police Academy classes thinking that their future job will be "helping their community by catching criminals." Those officers quickly become disgusted by the "catch and release" policy and quit in protest. A modern LEO is pretty helpless about crime-fighting. At best he is an annoyance to criminals (and a target.) Far more commonly he is a scarecrow that criminals have no difficulty working around.

LEOs who got used to the job have trained themselves to be emotionally detached from the "help the community" part. Instead they are focusing first on surviving the shift. They stop trusting that "community" very quickly - just as soon as they realize that everyone is lying to them, for one reason or another. Some become paranoid. Go to officer.com and read the forums there. Remember the joke "Be polite. Be professional. But, be ready to kill everyone you meet?" It's not a joke for many successful LEOs - it's now their method of operation, and it saved their lives more than once. But once you step into that groove you will not climb out; "civilians" will never be your friends, they will be only suspects.

anyone intelligent can only have the goal of working behind a desk making themselves lots of money.

I can accept that a 20 y/o starry-eyed idealist can join the ranks of police and work the beat for a while. However this is a thankless, heavily physical job with night shifts and with no prospects for a career. As you are getting older you need more money to support your mortgage, your children, and then education of their children (and your grandchildren, eventually.) You cannot do that on a fixed income of a police officer. Furthermore, as you are getting older you may have difficulty just being physically fit for the job. If you are unfit you will be reassigned to that very desk job that you are so derisively talking about. Now, with all other factors being equal, what desk job would a reasonable person prefer - of a middle manager in a good business or of a crime report writer in the 123th Precinct? Whose job has better future? Whose job pays better? Whose job doesn't get harder and harder as years go by? Whose job gives you better chances of surviving the day? It is not very pleasant to be cursed and spit upon all day long.

As I said, anyone who has an IQ well above average answers these questions not based on his feelings and childhood's dreams but based on rational reasoning and on facts. Police officers are janitors of the society. They are doing a necessary job, but that job, to most people, is not the most desirable one. But it does attract people who seek power over others.

Americans are misunderstanding

[Anonymous Coward]

He was actually charged with terrorism for not also send his message in French. This is Quebec after all.

Re:Americans are misunderstanding

[POTSandPANS]

Actually, from the article:

"Allami says he sent the text message in French and used the word ''exploser,'' a term he claims is commonly used in finance to mean grow or succeed."

Re:Americans are misunderstanding

[Anonymous Coward]

If you read TFA, you would find that the message actually was in French. But maybe your English isn't that great.

Re:Americans are misunderstanding

[Yvan256]

Nothing as drastic, but I've heard that the Office québécois de la langue française gave him a "C" because of typos and grammatical errors in his message.

Re:Americans are misunderstanding

[Kafkaaah]

He was actually charged with terrorism for not also send his message in French. This is Quebec after all.

Yes, we're a backward province with fascist laws. I attest to that.

Come and visit us sometimes!

We're friendly and we don't bite. We're an easy target for the ill informed and the less travelled, but we're a welcoming bunch of gals and guys, considering we think the Nuremberg laws were a bit soft.

Re:Americans are misunderstanding

[tomhudson]

It's not just the OLF. Quebec has always been the most corrupt province in Canada (and usually the western world as well, which takes some doing). It's a blemish on both the RoC and Quebecers that it seems to perpetuate itself, no matter which set of crooks is in power.

The problem won't resolve itself internally, any more than Syria will.

Re:Americans are misunderstanding

[sjwt]

And because this is was a text message, the weighted grade turns out to be a A++, with a quote of "He was rather lucky that the message sent was not a more typical 'U h3lp me blow up wankers @ trade show?' "

Re:Americans are misunderstanding

[Anonymous Coward]

In a Slashdot article a few days ago, using computer encryption or vpns etc was seen as the mark of a potential terrorist. The point was made that a C++ program would look like "evil code" (and heaven forbid a Perl script) to a non-IT person. Following that rationale, the morons who caused this fuss probably looked at the French and though - aha! Non English = encryption = Guantanamo guest.

Oh - and coincidence? The Captcha I received when trying to post this was "sinister"!

Re:Americans are misunderstanding

[Anonymous Coward]

Being from Québec, I read Slashdot several times a day and everytime there's an article remotely about Canada/Québec, I know that this type of hateful generalization will be posted by people who don't have a clue about Québec, but know that they can get away with this kind of bashing, EVEN though in this case, your comment is totally irrelevant as the original message was sent in French. This is not what's at stake here.

Now think for a second: Could you do the same type of comment if you were speaking about black, or jews? Why can you keep bashing away at Quebecers all the time and get away with it? You sir, don't know anything about the complexity of the Quebec language issue, and are a moron. Go back to Sun News TV, or as they call themselves, the "Fox News of the North", who live on Quebec bashing and CBC bashing.

I'm fucking tired of all these uneducated rednecks who shit on me at every opportunity.

Re:Americans are misunderstanding

[tehcyder]

He was actually charged with terrorism for not also send his message in French. This is Quebec after all.

Your attempted joke would have had a chance of being funny if numerous people had not already ponted out that he did, in fact, send his message in French.

HI!

[M0j0_j0j0]

Welcome to the 21st century witch hunt!

I agree it's likely an overreaction

[93 Escort Wagon]

But I'd really like to see the exact contents of the original text, as opposed to him giving us a vague description about how it mentioned "blowing away" the competition. That is, was it

"Go to this trade show and do such a good sales job that the competition is blown away!"

or a more hyperbolic comment like

"Blow those guys away. Annihilate them. Don't stop until they're lying in a puddle of their own blood, begging for mercy."

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[Anonymous Coward]

"Blow those guys away. Annihilate them. Don't stop until they're lying in a puddle of their own blood, begging for mercy."

AHHHHHHHH TERRORIST GET HIM!!!!

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[Anonymous Coward]

BAM!

You've triggered our 'blow away' filter with excessive usage of that phrase.
Watch out! Someone's on their way to 'blow you away' right now.

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[Anonymous Coward]

93 Escort Wagon, you are clearly a terrorist for using those words.

Authorities: It's a JOKE!

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[million_monkeys]

But I'd really like to see the exact contents of the original text, as opposed to him giving us a vague description about how it mentioned "blowing away" the competition.

Are you kidding? They're not going to release the actual text. We can't afford to let dangerous information like that fall into the wrong hands. There would be copycat texters all over the place.

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[Anonymous Coward]

Moroccan living in Quebec... the message was in French.

He said something like "faire exploser la concurrence", the French press isn't that specific either.

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[Yvan256]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2654795&cid=38931139

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[Anonymous Coward]

You are forgetting one thing. The guy was a muslim.
If it been a redneck, I am sure it wouldn't have been a problem. Bombing stuff is currently linked to muslims.

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[chrismcb]

But I'd really like to see the exact contents of the original text,

It doesn't matter WHAT the text actually said.

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[houghi]

"I will kill the the Queen"

Imagine that was the message. How do they know this? Did the receiver go to the police? No. They just monitor everything you say.

I am not worried about the message. I am worried that the read the message.

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[Anonymous Coward]

Who the fuck cares?

Why do most of you go on explaining that the officers are stupid for misunderstanding common phrases like "blow them away" or "destroy [America]". That doesn't matter one bit. If I were to send "I'm going to kill your mom" or "George fucking Bush", that would still be private communication. There's nothing illegal about that (assuming the receiver doesn't complain about it), no matter the contents, and the authorities have no business spying on that without a warrant.

Oh, you say I'm not allowed to joke in private anymore? Welcome to 1984.

Re:I agree it's likely an overreaction

[tehcyder]

"I will kill the the Queen"

Imagine that was the message. How do they know this? Did the receiver go to the police? No. They just monitor everything you say.

I am not worried about the message. I am worried that the read the message.

But what if they intercepted the message and prevented a genuine attempt to assassinate the Queen? Surely that would be a good thing (if you're a monarchist at least)?

Nations of Cowards

[swbirding]

The US and Canada have become such cowardly nations that anything can be made into a threat.

Re:Nations of Cowards

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this comment insightful? There isn't enough real journalism done here to support his side of the story.

TFA is a CP article that hasn't made it to any other creditable news agency. The article offers nothing but a claim and a lawsuit. Similarly, a Canadian couple on a visit to Mexico a couple of months ago had a run in with their local police and made some wild accusations too, rape, attempted suicide, but when investigated things became clear they were making it up.

I also have a hard time believing this because I work with an Afghani who said something similar to me in a text message, but last time I saw him he didn't mention a raid or jail-time.

Sorry but I am tried of silly articles, especially when they make it this far on Slashdot.

Re:Nations of Cowards

[cold fjord]

Well, anything except actual threats. We are continually told on Slashdot that they don't exist despite continuing arrests and convictions. The lack of terrorist attacks isn't because there aren't terrorists, or that they don't wish to attack, but because they have been generally foiled to date due to good intelligence, hard work, and luck.

North of the border:
Canadian Charged in Iraq Bombing
Few Details Given as 4 Canadians Are Held in Terrorist Plot
Alleged terrorist arrested at Pearson
Canadian police arrest couple on terrorism charges
Government links boat passengers to terrorism, arrests made
Terror Arrests Reveal Reach of Canada's Surveillance Powers

South of the border:
FBI’s Top Ten News Stories for the Week Ending January 27, 2012
Denver: Man Arrested for Providing Material Support to a Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization
Baltimore: Man Pleads Guilty to Attempted Use of a Weapon of Mass Destruction in Plot to Attack Armed Forces Recruiting Center
Washington Field: Man Pleads Guilty to Shootings at Pentagon, Other Military Buildings

FBI’s Top Ten News Stories for the Week Ending January 13, 2012
Tampa: Florida Resident Charged with Plotting to Bomb Locations in Tampa
Baltimore: Former Army Solider Charged with Attempting to Provide Material Support to al Shabaab

FBI’s Top Ten News Stories for the Week Ending December 9, 2011
Seattle: Man Pleads Guilty in Plot to Attack Military Processing Center

FBI’s Top Ten News Stories for the Week Ending December 2, 2011
San Diego: Woman Guilty of Conspiring to Provide Material Support to al Shabaab

More here.

Keep in mind that Al Qeda has called off attacks that would have likely killed hundreds or thousands of people because they weren't spectacular enough for their tastes. ( New York Subway Plot and al-Qaeda's WMD Strategy )

Re:Nations of Cowards

[chrismcb]

Well, anything except actual threats. We are continually told on Slashdot that they don't exist despite continuing arrests and convictions. The lack of terrorist attacks isn't because there aren't terrorists, or that they don't wish to attack, but because they have been generally foiled to date due to good intelligence, hard work, and luck.

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you justifying the action taken against the guy who sent a text message because other people were caught for "terrorist" like activities?
Just because terrorist exists, doesn't mean I have to lose my freedoms. Doesn't mean I should be arrested because I SAY something (in private even!)
YES there are bad people out there. And yes some of those bad people want to hurt others. Not all of them are terrorists. But that doesn't mean I have to give my rights up.

Re:Nations of Cowards

[johnnysaucepn]

That's somewhat missing the point expressed. There are real threats, and there are threats that are imagined without substance. It's important to keep enough perspective to be able to distinguish between the two.

Re:Nations of Cowards

[houghi]

A weapon of mass destruction on Baltimore? LOL.

When you read http://skyvalleychronicle.com/GENERAL-VALLEY-NEWS/FORMER-L-A-MAN-PLEADS-GUILTY-IN-PLOT-TO-ATTACK-SEATTLE-MILITARY-PROCESSING-CENTER-846631 which is nicely standard FBI fodder, what you read is that somebody tried to buy a gun.
He can't have a gun because of an earlier conviction.
Suddenly this is a weapon of mass destruction? How did that happen?

Sure, there will ALWAYS be idiots who want to do something like that. What you read on that page is standard FUD.

Re:Nations of Cowards

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, and Oklahoma City seemed like a weird place to have a WMD too, but ask them how that went.

Re:Nations of Cowards

[cold fjord]

A weapon of mass destruction on Baltimore? LOL.

When you read http://skyvalleychronicle.com/GENERAL-VALLEY-NEWS/FORMER-L-A-MAN-PLEADS-GUILTY-IN-PLOT-TO-ATTACK-SEATTLE-MILITARY-PROCESSING-CENTER-846631 [skyvalleychronicle.com] which is nicely standard FBI fodder, what you read is that somebody tried to buy a gun.

So, you start off talking about Baltimore, and then quote from a story about the plot in Seattle, and then don't acknowledge either the change of location or the facts. The goal of the plot in Seattle, noted in your link, was:

Mujahidh suggested going into the MEPS with machine guns and grenades and killing everyone there. -- source

Not really a case of simple firearms possession, is it? The gap between the facts and what you report is pretty large. But what about the story from Baltimore?

BALTIMORE—Antonio Martinez, aka Muhammad Hussain, 22, of Baltimore, a U.S. citizen, pleaded guilty today to attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction against federal property in connection with a scheme to attack an armed forces recruiting station in Catonsville, Md. Martinez was arrested on Dec. 8, 2010, after he attempted to detonate what he believed to be explosives at the armed forces recruiting station . . .
. . . Martinez admitted that the bomb was intended to kill military service members who worked in the building. . . . - source

So, despite your "LOL", it turns out to be true, not FUD. The man actually admitted it.

Sure, there will ALWAYS be idiots who want to do something like that. What you read on that page is standard FUD.

You are correct, there will always be idiots, and it does help to read the page.

Re:Nations of Cowards

[boorack]

So our lovely government is carefully listening to every tweet, text message and slashdot comment - ready to bust you as soon as they find something that makes you 'suspected terrorist' - and keep you locked without charge and without recourse to court of law (see latest NDAA).

On the other hand, Mr Corzine was able to directly steal more than $1bln from his customers and the same government fucks are unable to track it and they try to convince everybody that this money has been 'vapourized'. This is despite the fact that all electronic financial transactions are logged to the point that you're able to track every penny at any time.

Having said that, any form of apologizing such "anti-terror" actions tells you how out of touch apologist is. If this does not show you how low your government has fallen, then nothing will.

Re:Nations of Cowards

[Eunuchswear]

Of course it's FUD.

When did "explosives" become "a weapon of mass destruction".

I'm Spartacus!

[Anonymous Coward]

This has happened a few times in the UK and the US recently. Why each occasion doesn't cause 100,000 people to post the same message baffles me. Isn't that the whole point of the Twitter groupthink thing?

Yup

[RenHoek]

Knowing the DHS scrapes all of the social sites and sites like Slashdot, I would like to say that the DHS can 'blow me'.

So there...

Re:Yup

[million_monkeys]

Knowing the DHS scrapes all of the social sites and sites like Slashdot, I would like to say that the DHS can 'blow me'.

So there...

You're doing it wrong. You're not supposed to tell DHS to blow you, you've got to threaten to blow them. But either way, just remember that you're on their watch list now. So if a guy solicits you in a bathroom, you'll have to assume it's a DHS agent.

Re:Yup

[TheGratefulNet]

So if a guy solicits you in a bathroom, you'll have to assume it's a DHS agent.

the hell with that: if some guy approaches me in a restroom, I'm assuming he's a republican and I'm running for my life!

Re:Yup

[DigiShaman]

I'm not sure how much of the following is true. Rumor had it that from the mid-90s on back, the NSA and FBI would monitor a random selection of local telco phone calls (analog POT line for the younger readers). The purpose was seek out certain key words by computer and then flag the call for further review by an agent eavesdropping on it. They say if you heard a "click" after speaking one of these key words or phrases, someone just tapped into your line due to the change in voltage caused by this.

Re:Yup

[number11]

I'm not sure how much of the following is true. Rumor had it that from the mid-90s on back, the NSA and FBI would monitor a random selection of local telco phone calls (analog POT line for the younger readers). The purpose was seek out certain key words by computer and then flag the call for further review by an agent eavesdropping on it. They say if you heard a "click" after speaking one of these key words or phrases, someone just tapped into your line due to the change in voltage caused by this.

I think they've had the technology for a long time, to do it without making "click" noises. If you hear a "click", either they wanted you to hear it, or it's the 14-year-old next door messing with the phone lines, or (most likely of all) you've got a crap phone line.

Re:Yup

[zill]

For our friends outside America who didn't get the reference.

As a side note, I forgot his name so I had to google him. He was the first hit for "republican bathroom". Bravo, google.

Re:Yup

[Fancia]

It's the new gay stereotype!

Re:Yup

[GameboyRMH]

They won't blow you they do give short handjobs...

An unfortunate confluence of terms

[dgharmon]

"Telecommunications sales manager Saad Allami .. sent a text message to colleagues urging them to "blow away" the competition at a trade show in New York City"

Well there you have it, an obvious prima facie case if there ever were one. An Arab sounding name next to the words 'blow away` and 'New York`. The computers at Fort Meade must have lit up like a Christmas tree ..

Re:An unfortunate confluence of terms

[canajin56]

Even worse than that, it's a translation error in TFA (and presumably the police too). Babelfish turned "on va infinitive-verb subject" into "We will verb subject" when it should be "Subject will verb".

Re:An unfortunate confluence of terms

[Nukedoom]

Don't forget the word "trade."

Re:An unfortunate confluence of terms

[dgharmon]

I wonder are they monitoring all voice and txt msgs now as a matter of course and is this even legal and why no one seems to be bothered.

Saad Allami?

[theNAM666]

His name is Saad Allami and he sent your daughter a text message that said "Hello?"

Book him, Danno.

Correct Link

[theNAM666]

http://m.yahoo.com/w/news_america/muslim-man-workplace-quip-made-terror-suspect-211334769.html?back=%2F&.ts=1328402603&.intl=ca&.lang=en-ca

Link in OP does not seem to work.

There! Happy?

[Anonymous Coward]

while True:
        print 'blow away'

war on terror strikes again!

[metalmaster]

- His name sounds Arabic
- He wants his colleagues to "blow away competition"
- The supposed target is in NYC
- The supposed venue is hosting a trade show

He is a terrorist QED.

Ask The Right Questions...

[IonOtter]

We need to be asking the right questions here:

He made the tweet on Jan 21, and he was picked up three days later. That is an incredibly fast turnaround for law enforcement, even for the US or Canada. They were throwing the T-word around like it was a known fact, all while terrorizing his wife and co-workers.

So, let's ask some useful questions.

1. How long have the authorities been monitoring this man?
2. WHY have they been monitoring him?
3. WHY did they go after his co-workers?

The answers are bound to be exceptionally interesting and frightening.

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[quantaman]

We need to be asking the right questions here:

He made the tweet on Jan 21, and he was picked up three days later. That is an incredibly fast turnaround for law enforcement, even for the US or Canada.

We're talking about suspicion that there's about to be an attack, particularly one involving the T-word, frankly 3 days is a little slow (but who knows when the trade show was).

They were throwing the T-word around like it was a known fact, all while terrorizing his wife and co-workers.

Not the first time unfortunately

So, let's ask some useful questions.

1. How long have the authorities been monitoring this man?
2. WHY have they been monitoring him?
3. WHY did they go after his co-workers?

The answers are bound to be exceptionally interesting and frightening.

1. He's Arab and presumably Muslim, he and a ton of people like him have probably been monitored to some degree for a while.
2. see 1), particularly if he's part of a mosque you probably don't have to follow that many links to find someone with terrorist ties (you can do the same thing with Christian Churches involving pedophiles and pro-life extremists).
3) Some analyst saw the message, assumed he was a terrorist, saw a couple other things that while innocent, still fit the bill, then freaked out. Once it became clear that he was completely innocent they had to drop charges, but they'd already investigated him and they knew if he ever DID get involved with terrorism in the future, they'd risk having huge egg on the faces, thus they're leaving the marker on his record as a CYA (Cover Your Ass).

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[martin-boundary]

He might not have been *monitored* at all. It's quite possible that a disgruntled neighbor/colleague/customer/acquaintance simply decided to accuse him anonymously. That would explain fast turnaround much more simply.

1) Authorities don't know about man.
2) Someone with a grudge against man sees tweet, and reports it to authorities.
3) Authorities learn about tweet, Arab name, bomb action word, and decide to arrest the man.

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[AHuxley]

Yes you need to spin up a subpoena, court order, or other legal document right....
Then wait for the details to come back. Spin up the telco with a court order ect. and get the real world details form some cleared admin and the telcos's legal team.....
I am guessing very little paperwork and very automated - point and click like for a person with many hats results in very rapid real world details.
Australia hinted at such a system for cleared staff - no real day to day court paperwork needed.
http://www.zdnet.com.au/inside-australia-s-data-retention-proposal-339303862.htm
"..."wanted to automate the process of requesting and obtaining access to telecommunications data."

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[wvmarle]

3/4 down the page and finally this. About time. Just some other deep-down replies of "how did they get their hands on that message to begin with?" which indeed is one of the core questions one should ask here.

Besides, of course, the total over-reaction.

And the fact that he stands to lose his job because of this ordeal: he's been accused of terrorism, but found not guilty, yet for the mere fact of being accused (and having this accusation on his record) he can not get a certificate of good conduct which he needs to work in his current job, in finance. So much for innocent until proven guilty.

His record is said to also contain some other issue, but that obviously didn't stand in the way of getting this certificate before.

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[stephanruby]

We need to be asking the right questions here:

He made the tweet on Jan 21,

It wasn't a tweet, it was a text message.

...and he was picked up three days later. That is an incredibly fast turnaround for law enforcement, even for the US or Canada.

but if you think about it, "three days later" is kind of useless for an SMS that is supposed to trigger an explosion. One would think less than 3 minutes (or less than 3 hours) would be a better time frame for executing that kind of order.

3. WHY did they go after his co-workers?

The text was directed at his co-workers. Since he told them to "exploser", and they didn't, the authorities probably thought that they were having second thoughts, or that they were incompetent terrorists (just like the shoe-bomber was). And if you've ever watched 24, everybody knows you interrogate the weakest terrorists first.

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not the first time unfortunately

Well, but that guy is a lot more suspicious. Sure all the chemicals he had may have just been for the purpose of model rocketry. And, he may have just been photographing the defenses for the summit as a hobby. And he may have posted comments about how to climb over the fences, and even pictures of tools that could be used to do so efficiently simply to point out how they should be more secure. And he may have been asking people to post pictures of the badge that could be used to get inside the security perimeter out of curiosity. For future reference, combining pictures of police with comments about how they are bacon, pictures documenting the security of a major international trade summit, advice on tools that can be used to bypass the defenses, and pictures of things that can be used to make bombs in the same photo album is probably not the best strategy to stay below the radar. It is a lot different than making a single joke on twitter.

https://twitter.com/#!/torontogoat
http://www.flickr.com/photos/toronto_goat/

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[chrismcb]

We need to be asking the right questions here:

He made the tweet on Jan 21,

All of the articles I read said 'text message" none of them called it a "tweet." There is a difference. Tweets are generally considered public, text messages aren't. Considering what happened to the two Brits I think the answer to your first question is "0 hours"

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[Anonymous Coward]

4...Profit!

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[qwak23]

According to an earlier comment, the actual message stated (in french) that he would be in new york on the 25th and that they would explode the ACN.

While there is quite a bit about this whole thing that does worry me, such as the apparent eavesdropping and the fact this wasn't dropped within a short period of time, at least we know the government can act quickly in regards to intel when it needs to (which for an actual threat would be a good thing).

If the comment above with the actual message is factually correct, given the timeframe and the ambiguity of translation (without any other context I would have interpreted it in the same manner), then I'm not surprised they swept in quickly. If they had more time, an in depth investigation could have been conducted, having only 4 days, the default went to "knee-jerk" (keep in mind, I'm assuming they would conduct a proper investigation). That said I don't think the fact that he has to sue to get his life back is just. I can live with the occasional knee-jerk reaction, everyone has them from time to time, but this seriously should have been over and done with in a couple hours.

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[IonOtter]

3/4 down the page and finally this.

Yes, well, I was the 34th comment, shortly after this popped up. But on Slashdot, if you're not the first post, then anything you put up will get pushed down. (Be glad /. doesn't allow images, or we'd be flooded with cat macros.)

Just change your reading levels to +3 and above, and the useful stuff will come up pretty quick.

As for how they got the message in the first place, I misread and thought it'd been gathered off Twitter? Turns out it was just a text message. THAT means either someone turned him in, or he was already under surveillance.

And that is a whole new level of frightening.

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[tqk]

They were throwing the T-word around like it was a known fact, all while terrorizing his wife and co-workers.

Not the first time unfortunately

Wow. Yet another reason not to be on twitter and facebook. If the LEOs ever hear about /., we're going to be in trouble. I see far more seditious and revolutionary talk around here every day. Counseling twitter followers on how to dismantle fences gets you jail time, and a divorce?!? People were talking about assassinating politicians here the other day in the PIPA/SOPA discussion.

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[quantaman]

I won't bother to post all the links here, but there is very little reason to believe that Byron Sonne is a terrorist. That he got arrested is no surprise as I believe that was partially his intent (to see if he could set off enough red flags to get arrested), but from every source I've seen he should have been released a day or two after he was arrested, when they realized he was just a geek, not held without bail for almost a year.

Re:Ask The Right Questions...

[wvmarle]

I am reading at +3 already...

It's just that there are too many people that go "oh no terrorist overreaction" (which is a valid point) and too few actually read the article and think a little deeper. And of course by the time you're done reading the article, the first 100 or so replies have been posted already...

It's all in the unAmerican-sounding name

[Tastecicles]

...there's no racial profiling going on here at all, no, no...

Re:It's all in the unAmerican-sounding name

[zill]

You meant un-Canadian.

Re:It's all in the unAmerican-sounding name

[Tastecicles]

Now you're making shit up.

All forms of communication are tapped

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject.

Assume that everything you do, if it passes through a digital system, is passing through a system that is being monitored, logged, and alerts created by one or more parties.

VPN everywhere. SSL 3rd party trust is 100% broken! private SSL relationships only. Encrypt everything you store, download, and upload.

It is all tapped logged.

How was this detected...

[rainwalker]

...is Canada intercepting every single text message sent in their country? TFA doesn't say, but frankly I'm pretty curious. The UK people banned for the Twitter comment actually makes a little sense, as Twitter is public, but AFAIK text messages aren't.

Re:How was this detected...

[russotto]

Even if Canada was intercepting every text message sent (not unlikely), they wouldn't admit it for this. He's a sales manager, he sent this message to several colleagues. One of them probably figured they could get ahead by turning him in.

Re:How was this detected...

[number11]

...is Canada intercepting every single text message sent in their country? TFA doesn't say, but frankly I'm pretty curious..

Canada doesn't need to, the US will do it for them.

Re:How was this detected...

[jamstar7]

SMS goes through computer systems on the way to its destination. Every message has the phone number where it originated and its destination, otherwise you'd never know who sent you that sext wanting to meet you in the janitor's closet, and the sexts to that hot girl in Accounting won't get through. Telco programmers might be 2nd tier, but they'll know how to tell the computers to watch every text from, say, 212-555-1212 and scan it for key words. Reasonably trivial, since the message itself is in plaintext. This isn't rocket surgery, kids.

Re:How was this detected...

[AHuxley]

Canada joined the UK–USA Security Agreement for signals intelligence (SIGINT) collection - Echelon.
As Canada upgraded its telco infrastructure and new players entered the market, trunk communications would have been open to cleared groups by default.
Make a fuss and your not a telco anymore, with huge contracts going to people who where more helpful.
So every email, fax, packet, bank report, telegram, voice call, text would have been tracked as a sender, end point, number and words of interest, voice print.
The problem was not the collecting or sorting, more the press, courts and books exposing the scale of the networks.
The tech is now cheaper, other police groups with small budgets and a need for any press can do the same with hardware and software getting very fast and easy to install.
So this has always been detected, just in the past, it was felt that a person should be "noticed" in other ways in public courts.
Tax problems, legal issues, car issues, work tensions, passport issues - anything that would result in a paper trail of suburban normality.
With every story like this they are setting back the best signals intelligence system they have for so little PR.

Re:How was this detected...

[gavare]

Nomatter what the technical details about this specific interception in Canada was, surveilance like this is most likely designed into the system, and something which today is automated.

It's pretty scary how not more people are complaining these days. Perhaps it has been a slow enough change, compared to other changes due to computers and the internet, that people in general don't notice. During the cold war, people calling out from the Eastern block knew that their phone calls were being monitored. Sometimes they could hear audible traces of this as well. When they sent or received snail-mail, there was a risk that the mail was being opened, read, and then closed again. This was detectable as well by the receiver. This non-free flow of information caused people to always have a "background fear", living in a police state controlling how they expressed themselves.

After the cold war, there was a feeling among many people that a victory had been won. "Never again" that kind of thought/expression control. Yay.

The difference between then and now is that in the digital world, you don't hear the clicks, and you don't see the edge of the envelope as being opened and read by someone else. This makes it so much more important that the governments or intelligence services, in the _few cases_ where they may have a just cause in intercepting something, are under scrutiny from some independent entity which reports on any transgressions they make. (Such as overly broad invasion of privacy, reporting on the number of people each month (or year) that were under surveilance, etc. Openly reporting on cases like the one in Canada, so that the public is aware about how many "false positives" that the system accuses each year, and what it costs.)

Re:How was this detected...

[thsths]

> After the cold war, there was a feeling among many people that a victory had been won. "Never again" that kind of thought/expression control. Yay.

That's our problem in a nutshell. The cold war is over, and we have lost all incentive to be "better" than them. "They" are not a credible alternative any more (if they ever were).

Maybe China will take that role one day. They have an autocratic leadership, much less personal freedom (although the gap is diminishing day by day), but so far no obvious benefit coming from it. "For the people" is not a credible argument, unless the people actually see it working.

Re:How was this detected...

[houghi]

Consider everything that is not encrypted to be known by The Man.
I am not paranoia, I KNOW that I am being followed.

Re:How was this detected...

[wrook]

It is very likely logged somewhere. It's been 15 years, but I actually vaguely remember having to work with something like that on DMS when I was at Nortel. It wasn't my primary responsibility, but I think I attended a code review with respect to logging SMS messages. I believe it was an option you could turn on (not per number, but for the whole switch). At that point it was up to the Telcos to decide what to do with it. Probably there is someone around here who could provide better information.

Anyway, having worked in telecommunications for a fair while, I never, ever assume that my traffic isn't stored somewhere. It might not be immediately accessible, but the tools for storing the information have been there for a very long time.

Re:How was this detected...

[tehcyder]

Consider everything that is not encrypted to be known by The Man. I am not paranoia, I KNOW that I am being followed.

Yeah, well, you're probably only being followed because you're a terrorist.

Watch what you say.

[Jackie_Chan_Fan]

You are guilty until proven innocent. If you dare criticize or say "Fuck the government" You are now a terrorist.

Orwellian

[Anonymous Coward]

1984 here we come.

stories like this blow me away

[circletimessquare]

i am just smashed thermodynamically to pieces by the kind overreaction here

one wonders if a complete shock wave of annihilation of common sense has occurred

what do we do as a society if we utterly and eruptive eviscerate and detonate our sense of proportion?

a violent cataclysm of frothing hysteria is bursting forth and is explosively convulsively disintegrating mental composure here in a frenzied fulminating volcano of bursting boiling meteoric rage and---

[NO CARRIER]

Re:stories like this blow me away

[Anonymous Coward]

Sober up/go to bed then maybe tomorrow you can translate this gibberish post of yours into english.

Re:stories like this blow me away

[Anonymous Coward]

The NSA ignored your "incendiary" post but the BSA had you taken off the Internet because of your .sig

Re:stories like this blow me away

[Anonymous Coward]

Sober up/go to bed then maybe tomorrow you can understand that he was joking.

Re:stories like this blow me away

[circletimessquare]

what the hell am i modded interesting for?

where's my funny mod?

ahhhh... i see

mod me interesting, and therefore flag my comment as a serious one, and therefore get me popped by the security goons

pretty clever slashdot!

jokes on me!

Re:stories like this blow me away

[Securityemo]

Also, you've got a great set of metal lyrics going there.

Re:stories like this blow me away

[MLease]

Heh.... My guess is that people with mod points wanted to give you karma that lasts, rather than just the ephemeral bumping of a single post.

Don't worry, it was funny (I laughed, anyway), and you got a "funny" mod or two.

Although I suppose your explanation has merit, too! ;)

The terrorists have won.

[Antarell]

They have succeeded in turning America and it's northern neighbours (who I thought had more sense) into paranoid lunatics!

Re:The terrorists have won.

[Anonymous Coward]

They have succeed in turning America bankrupt.

WELL, IF NOT A TERRORIST, A VERY BAD GUY !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Saad Allami

Nuf said. I understand Canada is the prime destination of terrorists targeting the US of A so chaulk this one up to the GOOD GUYS !!

Well done !! Well done !!

And Welcome to the US of A !! Terrorist-free for 4022 days !! Feel safe !! You are in GOOD HANDS !!

Definitely a terrorist

[Anonymous Coward]

With a name like "Saad Allami" he is guilty until proven innocent; ALL muslims are terrorists. May all who worship the child molesting false prophet muhammad (a thousand curses be unto his pig name) be exterminated from this planet like the vermin they are.

Vive le Québec libre !

[mevets]

Guess it wasn't such a long life after all....

The SQ surely knew this was nonsense and harassment, so why do it? Is it because the repercussions are so limited as to be meaningless?

"I was just following orders" should not be accepted. The entire chain in the SQ should face criminal charges, not a wrist-slap and let the taxpayers pick up the tab.

Re:Vive le Québec libre !

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm curious as to which country you live in because I think I'd like to move there.

It's called a moral panic.

[mosb1000]

The more technical terms is moral panic. It is beyond ridiculous that such a well understood phenomena is completely lost on people who are supposedly "experts" on criminal behavior.

Re:It's called a moral panic.

[cold fjord]

Glendower. - I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur. - Why, so can I; or so can any man:
But will they come when you do call for them ?
                                                                (1 Henry IV, 3.1)

The grandparent might have us believe there are no witches. You would have us believe there are no terrorists, just panic and hysteria. And yet, when our enemies, men who once walked upon the earth, such as Bin Laden and Al-Awlaki, called them, terrorists came or formed among us. Now they are arrested and tried regularly. This isn't myth, this isn't panic. this is fact. We ignore it at our peril.

FBI’s Top Ten News Stories for the Week Ending January 27, 2012
Denver: Man Arrested for Providing Material Support to a Designated Foreign Terrorist Organization
Baltimore: Man Pleads Guilty to Attempted Use of a Weapon of Mass Destruction in Plot to Attack Armed Forces Recruiting Center
Washington Field: Man Pleads Guilty to Shootings at Pentagon, Other Military Buildings

FBI’s Top Ten News Stories for the Week Ending January 13, 2012
Tampa: Florida Resident Charged with Plotting to Bomb Locations in Tampa
Baltimore: Former Army Solider Charged with Attempting to Provide Material Support to al Shabaab

FBI’s Top Ten News Stories for the Week Ending December 9, 2011
Seattle: Man Pleads Guilty in Plot to Attack Military Processing Center

FBI’s Top Ten News Stories for the Week Ending December 2, 2011
San Diego: Woman Guilty of Conspiring to Provide Material Support to al Shabaab

More here.

Re:It's called a moral panic.

[mosb1000]

The thing about a moral panic is not that the problem doesn't exist, but that people believe it is larger than it really is, and they take actions to mitigate it which are not warranted.

Orwell had it right

[calderra]

Remember: Unpartyspeak is doubleplusungood. Freedom is slavery. We have always been at war with Eastasia.

The text message is the least of my worries

[guttentag]

There are some things you just know better than to do. Don't yell "bomb" on a plane, don't point toy guns at people, don't joke about threatening a head of state, and don't send your buddies a text message about blowing people away as they are on their way to the airport.

Here's the part of TFA that gets me:

Allami says he hasn't been able to get a certificate of good conduct, which he would need in order to get a job working in finance.

His allegations have not been proven in court and the application is to be presented at the Montreal courthouse on March 5.

Provincial police spokesman Guy Lapointe says the force is aware of the case but will not comment as it is before the courts. A Justice Department spokesperson also declined to comment.

Police had in Laval, Que., where he applied for the certificate, found terrorism accusations and public mischief on his file, even though his public file shows no signs of the allegations.

"Without the certificate of good conduct, the plaintiff can no longer work in his profession," the document states.

First of all, you need a "certificate of good conduct" from the police to work in the financial industry in Canada? On Wall Street, you almost need a certificate of unscupulous conduct to work in the financial industry.

Second, Canadians have a "public file?" This sounds like something that was dreamed up to make people feel like they could access the government's information about them. But it implies that there's a private file as well that you will never see, which defeats the purpose of having a public file. In the U.S., you can request your FBI file for a fee, but they can tell you they don't have anything on you when they do. And the best part is that one of the requirements for obtaining the file is that you have local law enforcement fingerprint all ten fingers and send that along with your $18 payment. "Mr. Smith, you didn't have a criminal record before we received your request. However, thanks to your voluntary submission of your fingerprints, we discovered you match some prints found at a crime scene that had us stumped 10 years ago. We're going to have to take you in for questioning."

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[Anonymous Coward]

Worse, they assume that because you requested the file you must have something you're worried about, so they go ahead and investigate you and everyone you know.

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[Anonymous Coward]

The cert. of good conduct is just a police background check. Almost all desk jobs seem to require it these days. The YMCA requires police background checks for all staff *and* volunteers before they can work.

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[stox]

Actually, if you work for a Wall Street Brokerage, you will have a rather extensive background check done.

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL...

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[Anonymous Coward]

To be fair to Canada, the idea for a public file seeped in from American schools' permanent records.

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference that I can tell though is that in the USA, a company will do an actual background check rather than simply asking the police if the person is good/bad. In other words, they would have to actually find a specific item on your record rather than an suspicion from the police that a person is up to no good.

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[Sowelu]

Don't send your buddies a text about metaphorically blowing people away at a trade convention, just because they're getting on a plane soon? You have to be shitting me. Sorry, I don't live in a reality where that's common sense. I won't stop flying because I'm afraid of terrorists blowing up my plane, and I won't stop sending perfectly ordinary text messages because I'm afraid of the authorities coming after me. You are a degenerate coward.

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[zill]

That makes perfect sense actually. Before the gang initiation can begin they probably need to check that you're not working for another gang.

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[currently_awake]

The bank crash suggests those checks don't work.

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[iter8]

Who the hell is reading all of these text messages and deciding to arrest someone based on a single message? Is the automated NSA system flagging any message with the word "bomb" and reporting it to the Canadian cops? Were they already following this guy because he's a North African Muslim? Would this have happened to a WASPish white guy? How the hell did they get an arrest warrant based on a single text message? Don't they need warrants in Canada? There's a definite WTF factor about this article.

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[masmullin]

The bank bailouts suggests that those checks work perfectly.

Re:The text message is the least of my worries

[dotar]

There are some things you just know better than to do. Don't yell "bomb" on a plane, don't point toy guns at people, don't joke about threatening a head of state, and don't send your buddies a text message about blowing people away if you have an Arabic name.

Fixed that for you.

Don't type this into Google Translate

[CuteSteveJobs]

I was about to, but this article shows that the police can use the most absurd things to make your life a living hell. Police and other so-called public servants really should be judged the same way employees of companies are: Do something stupid, and you get fired. Lawyers only go after the money since that is after all where the money is, but the cops who did this are also responsible so I hope the victim names them on the law suit or at least lists them as co-defendants to be named after all. That way their incredible dumb is out in the open for all the world to mock and laugh at.

Re:Don't type this into Google Translate

[AHuxley]

Install trackmenot http://cs.nyu.edu/trackmenot/ for your browser and search engines will be pushing out a lot of random search noise all day and night.
Randomized search-queries will flood your logs and make your user profile fun :)

Re:Don't type this into Google Translate

[timeOday]

Face it, most people know this wouldn't happen to them because their name isn't Saad Allami.

.

Occasionally they're even open about it:

I'm, for one -- I know it's not politically correct to say it -- I believe in racial and ethnic profiling. I think if you're looking at people getting on an airplane and you have X amount of resources to get into it, you need to get at the targets, not my wife. And I just think it's something that should be looked into.

Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.)

Where did the text message come from?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where did they get the text message from? They just happened to be wiretapping his phone?

Just to Compare

[Niscenus]

In case anyone doubted the use of the term, I present google translate of a financial piece; hover on the article's title for untranslated usage:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.alternatives-economiques.fr/comment-la-finance-fait-exploser-les-inegalites_fr_art_1094_54437.html&ei=49stT6qBNtCztwey0oTzDw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDgQ7gEwAQ

Re:Just to Compare

[Anonymous Coward]

Nicely done - it just shows how sloppy so-called "intelligence" operatives have become. No knowledge of foreign culture, no inclination that words might be used differently in a foreign language and perhaps they should ask someone who actually speaks the language.

Poe's Law

[Niscenus]

Or does posting as an AnonCow count as a pinch of salt?

This is Chermany calling...

[harvey the nerd]

...that is, Nazi Germany [see "Lord Haw Haw, WWII].

Here's how it went down before...

[Anonymous Coward]

Defying Hitler, Sebastian Haffner

Excerpt from the memoir...

What saved me was - my nose. I have a fairly well-developed figurative sense of smell, or to put it differently, a sense of the worth (or worthlessness!) of human, moral, political views and attitudes. Most Germans unfortunately lack this sense almost completely. The cleverest of them are capable of discussing themselves stupid with their abstractions and deductions, when just using their noses would tell them that something stinks. ...

As for the Nazis, my nose left me with no doubts. It was just tiresome to talk about which of their alleged goals and intentions were still acceptable, or even "historically justified" when all of it stank. How it stank! That the Nazis were enemies, my enemies, and the enemies of all I held dear, was crystal clear to me from the outset. What was not at all clear to me, was what terrible enemies they would turn out to be. I was inclined not to take them very seriously - a common attitude among their inexperienced opponents, which helped them a lot, and still helps them.

[. . .]

The morning headline was: "Hitler called to President". That produced a certain nervous, impotent irritation. Hitler had been called to the President in August and November. He had been offered the vice-chancellorship and then the chancellorship. Both times he had set impossible conditions, and both times there had been solemn declarations: "never again..." Each time "never again" had lasted exactly three months. Hitler's opponents in Germany at that time suffered from a compulsive urge to offer him everything he wanted, indefatigably and at an ever cheaper price, indeed to press it upon him. It is the same now with his opponents outside Germany. Again and again this "appeasement" was formally renounced, and again and again it gaily reappeared at the crucial moment; just so today. Then as now, one's only hope was Hitler's own unreasonableness. Would it not sooner or later exhaust the patience of his opponents? Then as now, it became apparent that their patience knew no bounds...

At midday the headline said: "Hitler makes impossible demands". We nodded, half reassured. It was only too credible. It would have gone against his nature to ask for less than too much. Perhaps the cup had once more passed from us. Hitler - the last defence against Hitler.

At about five o'clock the evening papers arrived: "Cabinet of National Unity formed - Hitler Reichschancellor".

I do not know what the general reaction was. For about a minute, mine was completely correct: icy horror. Certainly, this had been a possibility for a long time. You had to reckon with it. Nevertheless it was so bizarre, so incredible, to read it now in black and white. Hitler Reichschancellor ... for a moment I physically sensed the man's odour of blood and filth, the nauseating approach of a man-eating animal - its foul, sharp claws in my face.

Then I shook the sensation off, tried to smile, started to consider and found many reasons for reassurance. That evening I discussed the prospects of the new Government with my father. We agreed that it had a good chance of doing a lot of damage, but not much chance of surviving very long; a deeply reactionary government, with Hitler as its mouthpiece. Apart from this, it did not really differ much from the two governments that had succeeded Bruning's. Even with the Nazis it would not have a majority in the Reichstag. Of course that could always be dissolved, but the Government had a clear majority of the population against it, in particular the working class, which would probably go Communist...

In the meantime the Government would be likely to

Re:Here's how it went down before...

[Anonymous Coward]

interesting

Terrorist are easyly detected by name

[Anonymous Coward]

"Saad Allami" is the key. A guy with such name sending messages is obviously considered than some John Smith with a couple of tonnes of dynamite. I guess things like this happen to people with dark skins. The first case is name carrying while the second is face carrying.

Damn

[ikarys]

Damn you auto correct!

I'm in Canada

[future assassin]

and I try to blow away my customers expectations with killer customer service.

I'm also say lets blow away with the Harper Government (Yes this guy calls Government of Canada the Harper Government) in the next election. Anyone calling a gov "Fill in Politicians Name Gov" in a democratic country is a trader and has ulterior motives

There I said it. Come and get me.

Re:I'm in Canada

[evil_aaronm]

I think you'll be more effective at drawing attention to yourself if you use the word "traitor" instead of "trader." The SEC would be more interested in the latter.

That said, and in the spirit of your post, I hope the Giants blow up, destroy, mertilyze, accost, assault, batter, humiliate and mutilate the Patriots in the Super Bowl. Not literally, of course, but if they make Tom Brady look like the little pansy ass that he is, I'll be happy. Oh, and fuck the DHS.

Republicans?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't be so quick to prejudge: Barney Frank is retiring from Congress, so he may have more time to indulge his hobbies.

Re:Republicans?

[amiga3D]

Barney likes to invite his fellow hobbyists to his house. They need to bring money though.

Re:Republicans?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahaha, because he's gay, and all gay men are uncontrollable sex maniacs who can't not suck any dick they see!

Quebec provincial police

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the things you need to know about the Quebec provincial police, they are very aggressive and violent. They tend to overreact and find problems where there are none, and if you have anything to say about it, they beat you down.

So here's the thing

[koan]

How did they know? Were they already monitoring him? Did someone turn him out for the msg, or is there some flag that pops up for certain phrases?
I'm going with he has a name that gets him put on a list which then gets his messages and phone calls monitored.

I wonder if I'm on a list...

Canada = fucked.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a felony conviction for a __non-violent__ crime.

I am not "allowed" entry into Canada because I have that conviction,
despite the fact that I have paid my debt to the US for a crime that had
nothing to do with Canada or any Canadian citizen.

Crap like this report doesn't surprise me in the least, Canada is run by
a bunch of neofascist idiots.

And I am not in the least sorry that I am not allowed to visit the place any more.
There is a great big world out there, and most of it will happily accept me as a visitor
and even more happily accept my money when I am visiting as a tourist.

I feel sorry for Canadians whose hearts are in the right place, and
I encourage them to make changes in their government.

The bottom line is : fascism can happen anywhere, and it IS happening in the
US, the UK, and Canada. If you disagree, please let us all know how those boots
taste, because it's obvious you have done some boot-licking.

Re:Canada = fucked.

[shutdown -p now]

Many countries refuse entry to people with a criminal record, pretty much regardless of the nature of that record. Canada is not unique in that regard.

There's nothing "fascist" about that, either. It's their country, and how they see fit to regulate entry to it is entirely up to them. Obviously, you don't want to let just anyone in, so you have to set up some filters. However, the more fine grained your filter is, the more expensive it is - and all that stuff is payed by taxes. Declining entry to anyone with a criminal record likely deters a good number of people who're likely to cause trouble, alongside with some unlucky people. But there's no right for non-citizens to enter the country, so...

Re:Canada = fucked.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a felony conviction for a __non-violent__ crime.

I am not "allowed" entry into Canada because I have that conviction,
despite the fact that I have paid my debt to the US for a crime that had
nothing to do with Canada or any Canadian citizen.

Crap like this report doesn't surprise me in the least, Canada is run by
a bunch of neofascist idiots.

I have some news for you. Ex-convicts in Canada who committed a non-violent crime are not allowed entry into the US even though they have paid their debt to society and their crime had nothing to do with the US or any US citizen.

I hate to break it to you but we don't have fill out a paper when we leave Canada whereas whereas America citizens do have to fill out a form when they board a plane for another country. I was shocked when I heard that Homeland security required all US citizens to fill out a special form before boarding a plane for Canada.

I am posting anonymously for obvious reasons.

Re:Canada = fucked.

[vleo]

I live lately in Russia... and guess what - I don't have to fill ANY paper when leaving the country, and don't have to give fingerprints, and I don't have to fill any paper when entering the country and I don't have to give fingerprints. On top of that I don't have to say A WORD to a boarder guard when I leave on enter the country, provided my passport is unexpired and issued in Russia.
Once I was entering the country with a passport issued in the US Russian consulate (I lived for several years in the US during 90s) and such passports are not "normal". So, I showed my internal passport (ID) and that was it. No paperwork still.

Hope this will stay this way in spite of the madness this Planet is experiencing now.

The real question here

[Anonymous Coward]

The real question of this article is not even a matter of why this man was detained, it is how the police came about his text message. I don't know the Canadian laws, but in the United States it is highly illegal to intercept text messages without the proper authorization. Not only that, but, assuming they were legally authorized to intercept the text message, it is incredibly stupid and highly unlikely (if the know anything about what they are doing...) of them to use that as the sole evidence in their case. My assumption is that someone who received the text and didn't understand French was paranoid and turned it over to the police. I would be shocked to find out that their only evidence was an intercepted text, legal or no.

Re:I have nothing to worry about.

[Farmer Tim]

Only a terrorist would feel the need to deny being a terrorist. Take him away, boys!

Better question

[currently_awake]

Why did they tell people he was a terrorist? Generally in terrorism you want to grab them quietly so the others don't escape.

Re:Better question

[evil_aaronm]

Taking a stab at this, but maybe the authorities get so little love for the non-success they have, seeing that it's mostly / all theater, that when they get a case like this, low-hanging fruit that it is, they have to dress it up and parade it around to justify themselves. Like the 14 year old playing in a 12 year old soccer league who scores a goal and tears off his shirt in celebration.

You have been chilled

[Poltron Inconnu]

Congrats! You are monitoring your legal legitimate harmless innocent activities out of fear of your government. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect_(law)

List of AGENDA 21 cities

[Anonymous Coward]

Think I am talking smack?
http://www.iclei.org/index.php?id=11454

United States of America

        * Abingdon, VA
        * Acton, MA
        * Akron, OH
        * Alachua County, FL
        * Albany, CA
        * Albany, NY
        * Alexandria, VA
        * Algonquin, IL
        * Allegheny County, PA
        * Alliance, OH
        * American Canyon, CA
        * Amherst, MA
        * Ann Arbor, MI
        * Antioch, CA
        * Arcata, CA
      * San Anselmo, CA
        * San Antonio, TX
        * San Bruno, CA
        * San Buenaventura (Ventura), CA
        * San Carlos, CA
        * San Clemente, CA
        * San Diego, CA
        * San Francisco, CA
        * San Joaquin, CA
        * San Jose, CA
        * San Leandro, CA
        * San Luis Obispo, CA
        * San Marcos, TX
        * San Mateo County, CA
        * San Mateo, CA
        * San Miguel County, CO
        * San Pablo, CA
        * Santa Ana, CA
        * Santa Barbara County, CA
        * Santa Barbara, CA
        * Santa Clara, CA
        * Santa Clarita, CA
        * Santa Cruz, CA
        * Santa Fe, NM
        * Santa Monica, CA
        * Santa Rosa, CA
        * Santee, CA
        * Sarasota, FL
        * Saratoga Springs, NY
        * Saugerties, NY
        * Savannah, GA
        * Seaside, CA
        * SeaTac, WA
        * Seattle, WA

Still think I am talking smack?
http://www.iclei.org/index.php?id=11454

don't say "Hi" to me

[Bigos]

My name is Jack. People can get arrested just for saying "Hi" to me.

Re:don't say "Hi" to me

[antdude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKms4cveAgY and http://search.dilbert.com/comic/Hi%20Jack ... ;)

US or Canada are not controlled by the people

[vleo]

That is the key problem. US or Canadian Govt. don't CARE to look good. They don't care to even IMITATE being proactive to catering to people's needs. And one fundamental need is - Habeas corpus. I.e. authorities just can't grab people at random under some pretext (be it "war on terror", "war on drugs", but the best one is "national security").

We've been brainwashed that such an environment existed in the USSR circa 1937. I don't know - have not been there. But ruining person's life based on some random saying of him.. looks very much pop culture 1937-ish to me.

To put it simple - there is no rule of people in the US or Canada. Some call it "democracy", but hell with that abused notion, let Gov't just CARE a little about People.

For one, in Russia I can at least write a letter to Putin, and he, using his direct *authority* is able to rectify his bureaucrat's dumb and aggressive behaviour - remember Ponosov's case with Mircrosoft trying to put him in jail for 5 years for alleged "copyright" violations. We live in Internet time - and it's better for Govt's to adjust their habits, then to censor and inhibit the Internet. But will the US and Canada do that or destroy the public Internet?

Do they operate on the assumption that terrorists

[Anonymous Coward]

Do they operate on the assumption that terrorists are fucking stupid?

Terror1: Hey dude what's up?
Terror2: yoyoyo I'z aboutz 2 blow me up some whitehouse, SON!
Terror1: damn ya allah ackbar the shit out of that c4!!!
Terrror2: I'm gonna tea bag the shit out of one of um after I toss those grenades!!!

I'm so glad we had jam echelon day for so many years so they could get some free stress testing and work out the kinks. With all the idiots like myself talking about c4, sniper rifles, machine guns, and other terrorist words, they need all the throughput they can get!

Live under the assumption that everything you say and do is monitored because our children do. Our children are growing up in a world where they see that as "normal" and this generational corrosion is what is going to chauffeur us back to a totalitarian nightmare.

moron

[unity100]

those islamist terrorists were already using messages hidden in ordinary digital images to communicate before 2001. now you are saying that in 2011, they reverted back to plain text messages.

either learn up, or shut up. stupidity of people like you is allowing those fools in administration to these stupid things to america.

why

[unity100]

is the parent post modded down. because it speaks of uncomfortable truth ?

Reading skills shortage

[Anonymous Coward]

So, the Canadians lack functional reading skills as much as the Americans do. There is a condition called autism which could explain the behavior of these officials.

oh!

[Anonymous Coward]

VIVA Quebec!!!!

My money

[Anonymous Coward]

Is on the unknown ... I bet there is more to this than what we see here.

slashvertizement?

[Anonymous Coward]

This news bite seems designed to induce you to visit Yahoo©

If this leads to

[mjwalshe]

Companies abandoning Dilbertesque mission statements then i think its on balance a win - not for the unfortunate Mr Allami but on balance a win

Failled expectations

[QuebecNerd]

I kindda expect this overreaction from the US authorities. They have proven quite effective at that over the last 10 years.

Without really knowing how it all went down, my expectations falls really short when I see my provincial police force being tools to the US.

The patriot act is a US law this can be interpreted to permit all kind of stupid action by law enforcement IT DOES NOT automatically extend to the rest of the world and their law enforcement. Too often, other countries overstep their own boundaries under the pretense of helping the US government. I feel a little ashamed to be a french guy from Québec...

Any Sub Culture, Any Language

[Niscenus]

Due to the idea of showing aggressiveness, out-stripping capability/capacity or the comparative extreme, everything from computing to politics has some extreme language. Explode, nuclear, destroy, execute, shoot-down, assassinate, surgical strike and war, which have been around forever, have found new companions with jihad, terrorism, dirty bomb and shock and awe. Phrases that may eternally be in bad taste have a tendency to pop up, such as holocaust, genocide, nazi (not that the Interweb Tubes have stopped that one), crash a plane into, Hiroshima (and Nagasaki) and Windows 95.

That is typical for many countries

[bussdriver]

The only upsetting part of your story is how we've let the slimy lawyer politicians shift more and more crime to severe rankings and I'm not just referring to the increase in felony crimes which is bad enough given how much policy is based upon that classification alone.

fake threats

[Anonymous Coward]

wouldn't it be funny to DDOS the DOJ with fake terrorist threats. Too bad they wouldn't think it was funny and would probably lock you away immediately

Easy way to find out

[Anonymous Coward]

Send text messages to all your friends.

To half of them say something like "It sure is a nice sunny day today!"

And then to half of them say "Todays weather is the bomb!"

& then see how long they take to arrive.

He's suing for $100k. I hope he wins.

[Anonymous Coward]

"The six-figure sum is being sought for unlawful detention, unlawful arrest, loss of income and damage to his reputation."
And, in my opinion, he's still being reasonable, mild and friendly on them. His communications were also being monitored without a warrant, which, correct me if I'm wrong, may be legal in the States under the Patriot Act (is that still valid?), but not in Canada.

Free?

[masmullin]

The true north strong and... ummm

He is Moroccan

[Nicolas MONNET]

He learned a french language that's closer to France's than Quebec's.

What's the problem here?

[metacell]

Instead of blaming the stupidity of the police or government officials, I think we should question the very premise of gathering intelligence using data mining.

The man allegedly sent a text message in French which translates roughly as:

Salem, I will be in New York on January 25h, we will explode ACN, if you have contacts refer them to me.

Now, it may sound reasonable to investigate something that could be a simple mistake or slang term, but also could be something sinister, just to be on the safe side. But consider for a moment how many millions of text messages are sent across the globe every day, and if even a tenth of a percent of them contain slang terms, jokes or language errors that make them sound suspicious, the police will have thousands of false positives (or more) to investigate every day. If there are terrorists who are dumb enough to send text messages about "exploding" a building, they'll be drowned out by the thousands of ordinary people who are stupid enough to send text messages that make them sound like terrorists.

We should ask ourselves if it's reasonable to devote the police's limited resources to investigating all those false positives, or if it's better used on traditional investigative work, such as infiltrating terrorist organisations.

Security expert Bruce Schneier has an excellent article on this problem.

All this means is

[Anonymous Coward]

that the terrorists are winning

"terrorists" no, "security" yes

[Anonymous Coward]

"I won't stop flying because I'm afraid of terrorists blowing up my plane"

agree & was on a plane 5 days after 9/11 (TBF didn't have a choice - was actually in Hawaii when it happened)... five years before that I was at an olympic event 12 hours after the bombing (I live in Atlanta) - I'm not deterred by terrorists...

I HAVE however stopped flying b/c of TSA's antics - we drive and/or take cruises for vacation now... if they are ever reigned in I'll happily return as I enjoy traveling (luckily I'd already been most places on my "list") but until/unless that happens I'm voting w/my wallet (i.e. boycotting)...

Jihad

[Anonymous Coward]

It is the duty of every Muslim to prepare for and participate in Jihad.
So if he is a Muslim then he is quite legitimately a terrorist suspect and good riddance.
Save the violins for the lazy people that still don't know the first thing about their enemy.
Abrogation. Takkiya. Dhimminitude. Jihad. Know your enemy!

So that's why -

[Anonymous Coward]

in medical research papers, test animals are "sacrificed", not killed ... I was at a dissertation party for a new PhD in medicine, it was joked that she now had a license to kill - mice.

Should we all start a political party?

[NewYork]

Now a days only politicians are considered as patriots.
Everybody else are potential criminals/terrorists.
Should we all start/own a political party?