Germany Delays ACTA Signature, Wants More Discussion

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Germany Delays ACTA Signature, Wants More Discussion

Posted by timothy on Friday February 10, 2012 @06:29AM from the frustrated-angola-could-not-be-reached dept.

First time accepted submitter willodotcom writes "Germany has joined Latvia, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia in delaying their signing of ACTA, citing 'time to carry out further discussions' as the reason."

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Very reasonable by i+kan+reed · 2012-02-10 06:34 · Score: 5, Insightful

I never grasped how copyright changes could be considered legally urgent. This doesn't mean the treaty will be blocked(it won't be), but at least Germany is taking their time.
1. Re:Very reasonable by mseeger · 2012-02-10 06:49 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Don't put your hopes to high. They are just waiting till the public's attention is elsewhere, e.g. occupied by a soccer cup.
2. Re:Very reasonable by MightyMartian · 2012-02-10 06:51 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Pretty much. Further meetings just means "How can we sneak this past the public."
  
  --
  The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
3. Re:Very reasonable by dkleinsc · 2012-02-10 06:58 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  If they don't act quickly, it's conceivable that Steamboat Willie might be legally distributed to people within the United States. The horror!
  
  --
  I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
4. Re:Very reasonable by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-10 07:05 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Not so sceptical please.
  Your democratic checks and balances might be absolutely fucked beyond all hope, to the extent that you live under a corporatocracy, but that isn't the case here.
  Besides, the element of surprise is gone. All further attempts are going to be highly scrutinised, and there are countries that will never sign.
5. Re:Very reasonable by nzac · 2012-02-10 07:12 · Score: 2
  
  Don't put your hopes to high. They are just waiting till the public's attention is elsewhere, e.g. occupied by a soccer cup.
  Your open pessimism helps to make it acceptable for politicians to do this.
6. Re:Very reasonable by rtfa-troll · 2012-02-10 07:22 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  And if you identify everyone who attends these meetings and concentrate on getting rid of them you will have struck a very big blow for clearing up politics generally. There are very few issues which as clearly come out as big corporation vs. people. Even better is that in this case it isn't because there are no big corporations on our side, just because they are new corporations which haven't yet worked out how to do corruption (that's why Microsoft is on the other side). This is a really really worthwhile cause and making a list of everyone who ever collaborated with the RIAA, MPAA and big media over this and following up on it to the end could set back the corporate control of government by decades.
  
  --
  =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
7. Re:Very reasonable by Kjella · 2012-02-10 07:26 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  It may be a long time until the attention is elsewhere. Right now the German Pirate Party is the one with most popular support, far more than in Sweden. They scored a huge number of seats in Berlin and if it was national election today they would get anywhere from 4-8% of the votes, there's a 5% threshold but they'd pas it today. Unfortunately it's not election for another year and a half but a long drawn out fight over ACTA is just the thing they need...
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
8. Re:Very reasonable by Asic+Eng · 2012-02-10 07:42 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  If you are in Germany, don't forget to join the demonstrations tomorrow.
9. Re:Very reasonable by geogob · 2012-02-10 07:51 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  Don't expect the public attention to drop so soon in Germany. People there are very careful about protection of private data and information. They have a somewhat bad historical background about state lurking into private lives and filtering/accumulating information... and they are not about to forget it. Anything that goes into that direction gets strong opposition - and the stage generally weights in favor of the private life protection.
  Now, in Germany, is happening exactly what the copyright lobby feared : people are looking into it. They is a reason why they tried to push it under the table and they failed. Now there is a good chance ACTA never goes through in Germany. And if it doesn't pass in Germany, it loses a lot of interest within the EU.
10. Re:Very reasonable by mseeger · 2012-02-10 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  Your open pessimism helps to make it acceptable for politicians to do this.
  I am afraid, they would do the same, should they catch me jubilating ;-).
11. Re:Very reasonable by Joce640k · 2012-02-10 07:51 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  The European Parliament (at the top of the food chain) is already deeply suspicious of what the Commision is doing with ACTA and asked them to clean their act up in March of last year.
  Some quotes from the report:
  
  2. Expresses its concern over the lack of a transparent process in the conduct of the ACTA negotiations, a state of affairs at odds with the letter and spirit of the TFEU; is deeply concerned that no legal base was established before the start of the ACTA negotiations and that parliamentary approval for the negotiating mandate was not sought;
  3. Calls on the Commission and the Council to grant public and parliamentary access to ACTA negotiation texts and summaries, in accordance with the Treaty and with Regulation (EC) No 1049/2001 of 30 May 2001 regarding public access to European Parliament, Council and Commission documents;
  4. Calls on the Commission and the Council to engage proactively with ACTA negotiation partners to rule out any further negotiations which are confidential as a matter of course and to inform Parliament fully and in a timely manner about its initiatives in this regard; expects the Commission to make proposals prior to the next negotiation round in New Zealand in April 2010, to demand that the issue of transparency is put on the agenda of that meeting and to refer the outcome of the negotiation round to Parliament immediately following its conclusion;
  5. Stresses that, unless Parliament is immediately and fully informed at all stages of the negotiations, it reserves its right to take suitable action, including bringing a case before the Court of Justice in order to safeguard its prerogatives;
  6. Deplores the calculated choice of the parties not to negotiate through well-established international bodies, such as WIPO and WTO, which have established frameworks for public information and consultation;
  7. Calls on the Commission to conduct an impact assessment of the implementation of ACTA with regard to fundamental rights and data protection, ongoing EU efforts to harmonise IPR enforcement measures, and e-commerce, prior to any EU agreement on a consolidated ACTA treaty text, and to consult with Parliament in a timely manner about the results of the assessment;
  I'm pretty sure the Commission hasn't done any of that, so if the Parliament gets involved again it's doomed. Hopefully this weekend's protests will help get that done.
  
  --
  No sig today...
12. Re:Very reasonable by slyrat · 2012-02-10 08:08 · Score: 1
  
  I am afraid, they would do the same, should they catch me jubilating ;-).
  Gah, the comma splicing. Be more careful when you use those pointy things!
13. Re:Very reasonable by Johann+Lau · 2012-02-10 08:20 · Score: 1
  
  Hey, thanks! I was just wondering about exactly that.
14. Re:Very reasonable by digitig · 2012-02-10 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps they feel it needs to be made stricter...
  
  --
  Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
15. Re:Very reasonable by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-10 09:52 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  ACTA is treated as a "mixed treaty" in the EU, which means that according to the rules of procedure it has to be ratified by the European parliament _and_ all of the national parliaments in order to be valid anywhere. If it doesn't pass in Germany (or some other member state) it doesn't pass anywhere in the EU. At all.
16. Re:Very reasonable by nzac · 2012-02-10 10:15 · Score: 1
  
  I am afraid, they would do the same, should they catch me jubilating ;-).
  Yes but you are implying that you will accept the legislation as the way politics are.
  You are saying that even though you don't like it if they do pass it you will do nothing meaningful about it. Knowing that (some) people have stated they will not protest against the legislation gives politicians more confidence to pass the bill.
17. Re:Very reasonable by msobkow · 2012-02-10 14:13 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft is on "their" side because Microsoft has long had an official stance against software piracy, not because they're somehow being suckered into it by the *AA.
  Much as I hate the *AA, Microsoft is in this one for their OWN benefit, not someone else's.
  
  --
  I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
18. Re:Very reasonable by rtfa-troll · 2012-02-10 20:00 · Score: 2
  
  You aren't getting this entirely. Have a look at GoDaddy; they have a long involvement in DNS, which is one of the areas where corruption and politics meets technology. They aren't particularly big and powerful, but they knew enough to find out about the legislation and to know who to talk to to get their own name in there early. They were explicitly listed by name in the legislation so that only they could benefit from exclusions.
  The list of people who support ACTA is invitation only. From their own point of view MS is in there because they benefit. From the general point of view they benefit because the *AA thought that without them the legislation might get blocked and that with them it would be more powerful. The next time this type of legislation comes around you may find something like a new copyright on search engine results being offered to Google in order to drag them in and get their support.
  
  --
  =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
19. Re:Very reasonable by Zoxed · 2012-02-10 22:49 · Score: 1
  
  The "C" in ACTA is for "Counterfeiting". If new laws can help reduce the inflow of conterfeit, and often substandard, say car brake parts, or medicines, arriving in Europe then I am for it.
  On the other hand if other, more contraversial, measures are piggybacked in on it then that is a different matter.
20. Re:Very reasonable by mseeger · 2012-02-11 00:43 · Score: 1
  
  My comma density is right for the German i grew up with. This means it is too high when i get in contact with the English language. Locations of my commas are pretty erratic even in my native tongue ;-).
21. Re:Very reasonable by mseeger · 2012-02-11 00:44 · Score: 1
  
  No, my original sentence just intended to say: If we don't replace the current crop of politicians, they will pass ACTA sooner or later. We got a stay for ACTA and not a "nay" ;-).
USA by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-10 06:36 · Score: 4, Interesting

So with the USA's propensity to blackmail other countries into passing legislation they want, what are they going to do when an entire continent rejects this treaty?
1. Re:USA by lennier1 · 2012-02-10 06:38 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I heard they have some oil in the North Sea ... ;)
2. Re:USA by VikingOfNorth · 2012-02-10 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  I heard they have some oil in the North Sea ... ;)
  Not to mention that France and Britain are confirmed to have weapons of mass destruction... :P
  
  --
  "I'm just here for the achievements"
3. Re:USA by Issarlk · 2012-02-10 11:51 · Score: 2
  
  Sadly they really have them and so the US would never attack. See: North Korea.
4. Re:USA by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-10 12:39 · Score: 1
  
  Sadly they really have them and so the US would never attack. See: North Korea.
  Sadly is not the adjective I would use.
5. Re:USA by msobkow · 2012-02-10 14:16 · Score: 1
  
  Continent? So far it's looking like the entire WORLD.
  Even the Canadian Senate is still discussing whether to approve the clauses that violate our 40 year + precedent cases, and with any luck, those odious clauses will be struck or the entire batch of legislation rejected.
  The US was very quick to brag about how everyone was "signing on." But now that it's up to the countries involved, those nations are realizing that appeasing the US means pissing off their OWN people and losing the next election.
  Fortunately, all politicians really care about is their OWN re-election, not what the US wants.
  
  --
  I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Delaying by ThatsNotPudding · 2012-02-10 06:47 · Score: 4, Insightful

Meaning either they're too busy counting how many pitchforks and torches are headed their way..

or...

they are merely waiting for the mafiaa to sweeten their payoffs.

I am not aware of any country involved in the inital back-room negotiations that has announced their unequivocal refusal to sign ACTA, full stop.
1. Re:Delaying by RogueLeaderX · 2012-02-10 07:18 · Score: 1
  
  Meaning either they're too busy counting how many pitchforks and torches are headed their way.. or... they are merely waiting for the mafiaa to sweeten their payoffs.
  I see that not only is the US exporting bad copyright policy, we're exporting cynicism as well.
China by Anonymous Coward · 2012-02-10 06:49 · Score: 1

Think vectors NOT scalars. With the power to stand up to American imperialism, the land of the free will be China this century.
It's a really cool place to live, and nothing I do in my day-to-day life is going to get me into legal trouble. I define this as freedom.
1. Re:China by willodotcom · 2012-02-10 07:19 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It's a really cool place to live, and nothing I do in my day-to-day life is going to get me into legal trouble. I define this as freedom.
  I prefer this definition by John Dalberg-Acton: "The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities."
2. Re:China by colinrichardday · 2012-02-10 14:19 · Score: 1
  
  Dostoevsky
  http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Fyodor_Dostoevsky
  The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.
  But the Acton quote is also correct
  http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Lord_Acton
  The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities.
3. Re:China by MrL0G1C · 2012-02-10 23:07 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, what drugs are you taking, they must be good.
  
  --
  Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
4. Re:China by LaRainette · 2012-02-13 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  Oh yes the Chinese government's honnesty...
  Are you refering to the 150,000 people the Chinese government employs to censor the web and post propaganda on social networks ?
  Or maybe you're refering to the cover-up following the accident on the new high speed train that cost the lives of several hundred people ? A train that was burried along with all the cadavers a mere 36 hours after the accident to make sure no investigation would be possible ?
  You're talking about a country where you've never lived and of which you apparently know nothing.
  And yes I'm saying he is bribing policemen, because to live in China and do half of what you're allowed to do in the USA freely, you will have to bribe policemen, on a weekly basis.
  So unless he lives inside his home 24/7 and doesn't use the internet (which seems like an ODD combo) then he's never been to china (or alternatively he has never been outside china)
  And I am in no way making the promotion of the US government or the american way of life, I am not american and I am very critical of both, but saying China is a land a freedom is basically like saying Israel is a land of peace. It is insulting to the millions of people who are suffering daily there, and it is insulting to the memory of the millions who died in the name of freedom & peace.
OK, so... by jamstar7 · 2012-02-10 06:54 · Score: 5, Insightful

They talk about this 'treaty' for months behind closed doors, cross all the i's, dot all the t's, get ready to roll it out, pick up on the groundswell protest against it, and NOW they say they need more discussion on it? Talk about spindoctoring at its finest...

--
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
1. Re:OK, so... by colinrichardday · 2012-02-10 14:21 · Score: 1
  
  Did the German government as a whole get to discuss the treaty?
That confirms by jcreus · 2012-02-10 07:01 · Score: 2, Interesting

Germany as one of the most sensible states in the world.
1. Re:That confirms by Grishnakh · 2012-02-10 07:26 · Score: 1
  
  Except that Poland beat them to the punch. The timing makes it look like a "me too!" response.
2. Re:That confirms by jcreus · 2012-02-10 07:29 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Poland is definitely another great country. It once blocked software patents in Europe; now ACTA... Great!
3. Re:That confirms by Asic+Eng · 2012-02-10 07:37 · Score: 2
  
  It's more of a "oops people seem to care about that and the Pirate Party got 8,6% in Berlin" response.
4. Re:That confirms by M.+Baranczak · 2012-02-10 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  Slight clarification: Poland already signed the treaty. What normally happens after that is the treaty gets sent to the parliament for ratification - but the government is now trying to back away from it. So it probably won't get ratified, but it's still possible.
  Germany, on the other hand, didn't sign the treaty in the first place. It's a subtle difference, but it means that Poland is a little further on the road to ACTA than Germany.
Makes Me Sick by MoldySpore · 2012-02-10 07:33 · Score: 2

I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it really makes me sick how quickly and easily ACTA was pushed and accepted in other countries. MAFIAA must have a silver tongue, equally as silver as the object they use to fuck over everyone else.

--
"I hope you know how very lucky you are to know me, because I am so incredibly incredible."
Follow Finland's example by Aggrajag · 2012-02-10 07:40 · Score: 2

EU countries should follow Finland's example and sign every treaty without any delay. Public discussion about government's decisions is done afterwards.
1st rule of the war is you don't mention the war by Hognoxious · 2012-02-10 08:11 · Score: 4, Funny

Germany has joined Latvia, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia
This has happened before, and it didn't turn out well.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:emigrate to where? by LaRainette · 2012-02-10 09:24 · Score: 4, Informative

Norway.
They have a small minority of maybe 5% of right wing nutjobs (but as you are american it is really nothing you can't handle) but other than that it's probably the most democratic place on earth right now.
Just to justify this : reaction of the US government after 9/11 => Patriot act and 2 wars
Reaction of the mayor of Oslo after the shootings this year by far-right terrorrist : "We need even more democracy".
Salaries are great, inequalities are pretty low, social tension is almost inexistant, and the welfare state is rock solid and financed for almost ever by Oil money and the $400 billions Strategic investment Fund the Norvegian governement created with it.
Oh and EVERYBODY speaks english. Literally.
Not Fair! by Erikderzweite · 2012-02-10 09:58 · Score: 1

German country-wide protests are tomorrow. They are backing up too soon!
Re:1st rule of the war is you don't mention the wa by Erikderzweite · 2012-02-10 09:59 · Score: 1

You, sir, made my day!
Missed by Pecisk · 2012-02-10 11:18 · Score: 1

Again have to repeat this - Estonia haven't even signed yet, and they are quite serious have good discussion about ACTA.
I know it's boring to mention countries where government actually work for people, but come on :)

--
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Minor Corrections by andersh · 2012-02-10 15:15 · Score: 1

Reaction of the mayor of Oslo after the shootings this year by far-right terrorrist : "We need even more democracy".

It was actually the Prime Minister of Norway that said that. Also the shootings themselves happened in another county far away from Oslo city.

... welfare state is rock solid and financed for almost ever by Oil money ...
The national budget is financed by income, corporate and sales tax (75%). Sales taxes being the largest contributor. Oil and gas revenue is invested abroad in the SWF, we allow a maximum of 4% of the surplus to go towards the national budget. Oil does represent a solid portion of the revenue (25%), however it is not what funds the budget.
Re:A word of Warning by KDR_11k · 2012-02-10 22:17 · Score: 1

The minister of justice in Germany is a liberal (I believe the US term for the stance is Libertarian) so I'm not sure whether she's siding with corporate or public interests. She's been a major stumbling stone for various anti-freedom legislation before (e.g. anti-terror laws) so I could realistically see her oppose ACTA out of her own volition if it's really a problem.
Of course I have no idea what prompted that change in stance from the govt, on one hand there was public opposition to ACTA, on the other it's not like the FDP has anything to lose by screwing the population over (their poll scores are at rock bottom, the pirate party took like 75% of their voters away).

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Liberal in Germany by krischik · 2012-02-11 00:30 · Score: 1

The Literals in Germany only stand for the Liberty of Trade. And perhaps the liberty to exploit your workforce. And finally the electorate have understood that. Currently the FDP are at 3 4 % which means they are below the minimum of 5% needed to be admitted into Office.
See: http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/index.htm
The Party which stands for the liberty of the individual is the Pirate Party which are at 4 8%. Too bad the next election is in 2013 — plenty of time for the FPD to recover and the Pirate Party to loose momentum.
Re:emigrate to where? by HiThere · 2012-02-11 09:44 · Score: 1

IIRC, you need to speak Norwegian to be considered for immigration. Not the most unreasonable of requirements, but too high a bar for some. You may also need to be under 30 or 35, so don't delay too long. (OTOH, it's been a long time since I last checked, so my memories may be faulty, or things may have changed. Check it out yourself if you're serious.)

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:emigrate to where? by LaRainette · 2012-02-13 03:25 · Score: 1

Hum... fair point, I hadn't thought about it because Norway is in the EEA (sort of broader economic-focused EU) so you can freely go there from anywhere in the EU if you have a passeport, and stay for 3 months. Once there you can apply for an extension as long as you have a job.
For US citizens I don't know, but Norway has a fairly welcoming immigration policy, especially if you have a job there / have qualifications, and I am 100% sure you don't need to speak Bokmal or Nynorsk to emmigrate there (althought that might come in handy if you plan to work there : Bokmal is spoken by 90% of the population)
You do however need to speak one of the two to have citizenship.