Slashdot Mirror


SSD Latency, Error Rates May Spell Bleak Future

Lucas123 writes "A new study by the University of California and Microsoft shows that NAND flash memory experiences significant performance degradation as die sizes shrink in size. Over the next dozen years latency will double as the circuitry size shrinks from 25 nanometers today, to 6.5nm, the research showed. Speaking at the Usenix Conference on File and Storage Technologies in San Jose this week, Laura Grupp, a graduate student at the University of California, said tests of 45 different types of NAND flash chips from six vendors using 72nm to 25nm lithography techniques showed performance degraded across the board and error rates increased as die sizes shrunk. Triple-Level NAND performed the worst, followed by Multi-Level Cell NAND and Single-Level Cell. The researchers said MLC NAND-based SSDs won't be able to go beyond 4TB and TLC-based SSDs won't be able to scale past 16TB because of the performance degradation, so it appears the end of the road for SSDs will be 2024."

32 of 292 comments (clear)

  1. Sounds legit by sbrown7792 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because there could *never* be a breakthrough discovery/invention found within the next 10 years.

    1. Re:Sounds legit by jedidiah · · Score: 5, Funny

      OK then. You've got 10 years. Get going.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:Sounds legit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh there will be a great discovery/invention in the next 10 years. Unfortunately it will be tied up in patent litigation for the next 50 years after that. All fun and games when it is a hard drive. Not so funny when it is a medicine that can save your kid.

    3. Re:Sounds legit by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We already have the breakthrough, but it's not Flash, it's PRAM.

    4. Re:Sounds legit by Zouden · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Perhaps it's already been found:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-change_memory
      PCM still has hurdles to overcome, but it's generally considered that performance increases as size decreases, the opposite of NAND.

      --
      "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
    5. Re:Sounds legit by bughunter · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yes, but what I heard about PRAM is that you have to push it. A lot.

      --
      I can see the fnords!
    6. Re:Sounds legit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      But I *LIKE* to push the PRAM a lot!

    7. Re:Sounds legit by maxwell+demon · · Score: 5, Informative

      We already have the breakthrough, but it's not Flash, it's PRAM.

      And MRAM. And FeRAM.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    8. Re:Sounds legit by peragrin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      what about the last 3-4 years worth of discoveries, of phase change, memresistors, etc. Many of which get more efficient the smaller you go.

      So NAND Flash has a lifespan. big deal, So did magnetic core drives, Hard drives are still going strong but are reaching the top ends for themselves too.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    9. Re:Sounds legit by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Funny

      Tiny monks with tiny paintbrushes, inscribing ones and zeros on individual electrons. No problem.

    10. Re:Sounds legit by jimbolauski · · Score: 4, Insightful

      NAND has been around for 14 years and they are trying to extrapolate out to 2024, almost double it's life span. I'm trying to think of any technology that was 10 years old that there was a road map of where it would be in another 10 that turned out to be accurate.

      --
      Knowledge = Power
      P= W/t
      t=Money
      Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    11. Re:Sounds legit by LearnToSpell · · Score: 5, Funny

      Won't somebody think of the hard drives!

    12. Re:Sounds legit by mickwd · · Score: 5, Funny

      Would those be chipmonks?

      OK, OK, I'm going........

    13. Re:Sounds legit by mcavic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, to start with you can make an SSD as big as you want by taking smaller SSD's and chaining them together with an intelligent front-end.

    14. Re:Sounds legit by sonicmerlin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They all have much lower densities. The highest is PRAM at 1 Gbit with a 58 nm process, demonstrated by Samsung in February 2011. That's way too low.

    15. Re:Sounds legit by pjt33 · · Score: 5, Funny

      On behalf of my fellow Brits I would like to apologise, and assure you that henceforth we shan't abbreviate the full term, perambulator. Let's face it: pushing an overloaded baby carriage (including baby, nappy bags, bottles, snacks, toys, etc.) is a long way from being the "leisurely walk" for which the word "stroller" would be appropriate.

    16. Re:Sounds legit by Pulzar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why? I'd rather have a bunch of 80gig disks in a RAID 50 it would be much faster than a 2TB drive and far more stable in case of data loss.

      Because 25 hard drives would be a bitch to carry around in your laptop?

      --
      Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
    17. Re:Sounds legit by parlancex · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, to start with you can make an SSD as big as you want by taking smaller SSD's and chaining them together with an intelligent front-end.

      I could do the same thing with a bunch of 80 GB hard disks, but I'd rather just buy a 2 TB one and run that instead.

      Did you know that your hard disk is actually already made out of multiple platters with smaller capacities that make up the whole transparently? Your RAM is made up of dozens of individual smaller chips that make up the total capacity, and so are existing SSDs and USB flash memory sticks.

      Kids these days.

    18. Re:Sounds legit by Dahamma · · Score: 4, Funny

      Juggers jog.

      Joggers jog. Juggers bounce.

  2. SSD =/= NAND Flash by MischaNix · · Score: 5, Informative

    There will be other solid-state storage solutions. The only reason NAND is currently used is its relative cheapness and reliability.

  3. In other news... by Troyusrex · · Score: 4, Informative

    An old study (well, executive) showed that there was a world wide demand for "maybe 6" computers. This might all be true at current technology levels but technology will have changed an awful lot by 2024.

    1. Re:In other news... by dyingtolive · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Hey, would you want a computer? It's a city block large, uses all of these punchcards for I/O, and doesn't really do much other than crack Enigma. Hey, where are you going?"

      "Hey, would you want a computer? It can fit in your pocket, let you talk to anyone in the world, can take pictures and provide you god damn near any information written down by a human being, and you can watch porn on it!"

      Computers are the same thing they were even 20 years ago in name only.

      --
      Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
  4. Stuff like this... by blahplusplus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... always denies other areas of innovation. The same way processors were thought not to scale down to x nm and we're at 20'ish nm now. The same way hard drives were thought only to have x capacity and we're now in the terabytes. If nand is really so limited then something different then nand will take it's place. But a few terabyte will be more then enough for 99% of applications and hard disks will be for packrats and those who need large amounts of longer term storage.

    1. Re:Stuff like this... by blahplusplus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "640k ought to be enough for everyone!"

      One can take a look at videocards, right now for most PC gamers they haven't needed to upgrade their video hardware for quite some time relatively speaking compared to the past. The idea that needs will scale linearly forever is nonsense.

      There is a point after rapid growth where you reach 'good enough' until the next step is ready which no one knows in advance.

  5. Re:HDDs for the win! by Surt · · Score: 4, Funny

    Yes, please send your SSDs to me for disposal, thanks.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  6. "...the end of the road for SSDs will be 2024..." by John+Hasler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes. They'll all stop working then and it will become impossible to make any more.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  7. I'm sure it's all wonderful by goldcd · · Score: 5, Funny

    But I'm choosing to ignore it all, entirely based on font.
    http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~lgrupp/CV.pdf

  8. 4TB limit by afidel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, about that 4TB limit, I think these folks will be surprised that their 5TB and 10TB drives won't be possible in the next few years....

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  9. Re:Not bleak at all by Joehonkie · · Score: 4, Informative

    Exactly, this quote at the end says it all: "However, even with TLC flash at 6.5nm, Grupp calculates that SSDs will continue to outperform hard disk drives on throughput, 32,000 IOPS to 200 IOPS, respectively."

  10. Re:Just add more by Surt · · Score: 4, Informative

    It costs money to stack. At a much higher rate than it does to scale. Or at least that has been the case. It will be a significant hit to the industry when they can no longer count on device scaling to help bring up density, and get forced to wire multiple chips in ever expanding arrays.

    --
    "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
  11. Re:I want HAL's memory by MobyDisk · · Score: 4, Funny

    A warp core really isn't a power source. It is more like an alternator. The power source is the matter-antimatter reactions. Similarly people confuse dilithium crystals with being a power source when they are really just a matter-antimatter regulator.

    And now, back to reality...

  12. Re:I want HAL's memory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So... How's your virginity going?