Slashdot Mirror
EU Court Rules Social Networks Cannot Be Forced To Police Downloads
arnodf writes "According to EU Observer, 'The European Court of Justice (ECJ) has struck the latest blow in the debate over internet policing, ruling on Thursday (16 February) that online social network sites cannot be forced to construct measures to prevent users from downloading songs illegally. The court, which is the highest judicial authority in the EU, stated that installing general filters would infringe on the freedom to conduct business and on data privacy. ... The case was brought before the ECJ by Sabam, the Belgian national music royalty collecting society, against social network site Netlog. In 2009, Sabam went to the Belgian Court of First Instance to demand that Netlog take action to prevent site-users from illegally downloading songs from its portfolio. It also insisted that Netlog pay a €1,000 fine for every day of delaying in compliance. Netlog legal submission argued that granting Sabam's injunction would be imposing a general obligation to monitor on Netlog, which is prohibited by the e-commerce directive.' In related news, Sabam is going to be prosecuted (Google translation of Dutch original) for 'forging accounts, abuse of trust, bribery, money laundering and forgery,' which took place from the early 90's till 2007"
Good guys 2
Bad guys 20000000000
Now that we have asserted our right to privacy, shot down SOPA, PIPA, and ACTA (more work needed in the US), what's next?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Man, the MAFIAA is sure gonna be pissed about this!
With every passing day, they become more and more irrelevant, and that's just fine with me...
Prosecution: It's about time that an --AA type organization got acquainted with the concept of risk and accountability for massive frauds upon the public.
That and a little common sense. In other words, don't count on it even if it is a step in the right direction.
A defeat for US e-colonialism.
This is absolutely silly, this notion that the US is on the only country that has concerns about piracy and copyright violation. Europe has IP laws too. This central argument... that if mean ole' America went away, everyone would happily download pirated content all day with support from governments... is ludicrous.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
You are reading it wrong. The US has zero balance in its laws.
The US is 100% for the rich powerful interests and 0% for the citizens. This is what the US is trying to export.
The EU just proved that it has a more balanced approach. They probably have actual democracy there too, instead of the auction to the highest bidder we call democracy.
It's not about having or not having IP laws. Clearly IP laws are needed and useful. It's about the corporations abusing those laws and going as far as screwing basic liberties that we should all enjoy. And nobody can deny that probably the biggest entertainment industry is in U.S.
Sounds to me like 20 some years of dubious business practices anything the courts had to hear from these guys should never have made it that far. Sounds like they have no credibility.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
The U.S. (and possibly the U.K.) is the only country that will utterly destroy a person's life (financially that is) for a non-commercial download. Of the Western nations are concerned about copyright and imaginary property laws, lord knows we've ceased being competitive at much else. What we want/need is a modicum of perspective when enforcing the laws. Downloading something illegally should be seen as a speeding ticket, not a lifetime as a pauper.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
I'm a citizen so my interests are not taken to heart for this matter.
I fixed that for you.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
I've often thought that even if I could get cheap unlimited hosting, and as much as I want to host my own stuff myself and would like to extend that 'service' to others -- I just wouldn't want to have to monitor everything 24/7. I mean, I'm cool with a "report abuse" feature, and I realize one would have to react to that, but that's a long shot from being "responsible for what your users do, period". So this is awesome, and I'm not thinking of downloading music at all.. sanity like this simply makes it possible to do fuck all that's actually interesting on the web without having to hire a bunch of lawyers and whatnot. Yay!
I have to give it to them, criminal and greedy as they are, they really know how to die slowly.
As by now it is quite clear that negative effects of filesharing on people that write books or music and make movies is at worst minimally negative and at best significantly positive, this is definitely going in the right direction.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Off-topic much??
There Can Be Only One...
Clearly IP laws are needed and useful.
That's debatable.
Circumcision is child abuse.
Speeding ticket? Speeding puts lives of others in danger. Copyright infringement is more like testing the grapes at your supper market.
Online social networks can't be forced to police downloads - for now. It will all change after ACTA passes, which is why I hope it won't.
The US has zero balance in its laws.
The US is 100% for the rich powerful interests and 0% for the citizens.
This is just as ludicrous as what the parent poster wrote. We wouldn't have elections if that was the case.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
This is just as ludicrous as what the parent poster wrote. We wouldn't have elections if that was the case.
Yes, just look at all that 'Hope and Change' America has seen since Obama replaced Bush in the White House.
Elections don't matter in the slightest when all candidates are controlled by the same vested interests.
Actually, the Soviet Union and all others east block countries had elections, too. They were just rigged, that nobody not in the Communist party had any chance of winning anything, so only people that the Communist party supported had any chance of attaining any Office.
Now in the US, it is pretty much impossible on a nation or state wide level to get elected, unless the rich and powerful (who also own the media, which is the one pushing all those new laws) to support you. What the US *does* masterfully, is to put up stage fights between candidates, so that elections are more entertaining. But in the end nobody outside the "ruling class" has any chance of winning. Heck, even Obama and Bush are cousins.
"Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos" - Homer Simpson
Search Engines and Youtube are- not really considered part of a social network. As it is, EU appears to have a real hard-on about going after Google or other American businesses. So, will EU extend this new ruling to You Tube/Search engines?
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
You call this shit "elections?" It is fucking theater and if you don't realize that have fun walking around with your head up your ass.
Replying to undo "Insightful" mod. I was going for "Redundant" especially since you are full of your own rhetoric.
Elections DO matter, especially when the candidates are close on many issues.
Not that this administration got it right, but do you understand the difference between Universal Health Care and the status quo? How about alternative energies, supporting American workers (Michigan), understanding the benefit of information technology, women’s health, freedom of religion, etc.?
I'm not saying the current just left-of-center administration has all of these down cold. Far from it. I’m also not saying the current administration hasn't really fouled things up (NDAA). I *am* saying that there are distinct and important differences between what passes for Democrat and what passes for Republican, even in US elections heavily influenced by corporate interests.
blog
The US has zero balance in its laws.
The US is 100% for the rich powerful interests and 0% for the citizens.
This is just as ludicrous as what the parent poster wrote. We wouldn't have elections if that was the case.
These aren't elections, they're distractions for the sheep while the wolves munch away behind.
The US has zero balance in its laws.
The US is 100% for the rich powerful interests and 0% for the citizens.
This is just as ludicrous as what the parent poster wrote. We wouldn't have elections if that was the case.
Choosing betwwen Mussolini and Hitler is no choice at all. That is the problem you have in the US. Republican or Democrats are bribed by the same corporations, and since bribing is for all practical purposes LEGAL (since the legislature won't come up with a more balanced system like public financing of political parties) the voter is fucked either way. 2 party systems are just as fucked up as a one party system especially with the kind of electoral laws you have in the US.
The US has zero balance in its laws.
The US is 100% for the rich powerful interests and 0% for the citizens.
This is just as ludicrous as what the parent poster wrote. We wouldn't have elections if that was the case.
Elections are useful to keep the populace from revolting, by giving them an illusion that their opinions matter and appealing to their "our team against their team" instinct (even when the differences between the "teams" are both artificial and superficial).
Elections are just a small part of a functioning democratic process. You also need:
- An informed electorate
- A diverse choice of parties and representatives, with a low barrier to entry.
- Real accountability that will make corruption a very unappealing choice (not impeachment, long jail terms).
Being allowed to choose which lizard will be in power is not enough.
Clearly IP laws are needed and useful.
[citation needed]
No. EU law isn't precedent based, and the decision by the court has no effect whatsoever outside of this particular case.
Heck, even Obama and Bush are cousins.
I generally agree with your point but this last statement destroys credibility. 11th cousins is hardly surprising. Odds are, that 11th cousins includes half or the USA.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Europe owes the entire world a larger moral debt than the US ever will.
Yep. The Europeans invented human nature!!! That snake in the tree selling apples - he was /European/!!! Probably even French!!!
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
For part of me, my opinion is formed by the fact that I"m starting to get back into doing photographic work and hopefully, when I manage to get my portfolio back together, make some money off of it (even if I still need to keep a day job). Since I'm more inclined to the Fine-Arts and want to sell prints rather than commercial work (which would be a work for hire in any event), I really don't care if .pngs are downloaded/used by anyone on the Net. If it brings someone joy, or they want to use it as a starting point for some work that they're creating, good. I didn't grow up in a cultural clean-room, and neither has anyone else. Where I draw the line is if someone who is trying to make a buck decides to use my work to make money.
I think the UK is politically in limbo for the 2 next years.
"(and possibly the U.K.)" -- You are about right there at the moment.
Politicians & politics change. Right now , the loony left lost the last election but not by enough. We are ruled by a middle-left / right coalition.
Election in 2 years or so, there is absolutely nothing of value being brought forward anymore that *might* risk loosing middle England public opinion.
If, public opinion continues to be mobilized enough then they will come out with 'outrage' at draconian MPAA & corporate practices etc.
If public opinion remains muted, they will sign whatever corporate deal is put in front of them.
My view is that the issue gets no media coverage from the very 'lefty' BBC ( who earn from content ), so the weight of pressure comes from real people , which is not an easily movable object, but needs to gain a few percentage points more to change the politics. Possibly could be forced by the younger generation who 'tweet' & download for fun.
It could happen.
I'm a very distant cousin to three presidents myself; it just sort of happens when your family (in this case, my mom's family) has been in the U.S. since before the Revolution.
I'm also a direct descendant of the medieval kings of Sweden, but then again probably you are, too.
It doesn't hurt to be nice.
Just because all you hear about the EU has to do with those two American companies does not mean they have a bias.
Your attitude is profoundly arrogant in my opinion. I cannot understand why so many of your fellow Americans don't understand the situation? If a company operates in a European jurisdiction, either as a local legal entity or offers services and goods, it has to follow local laws and courts. It's that simple, or leave!
The EU's courts go after European companies every day, you just don't read about it because it's "foreign" news. Why should the [very profitable] arms of American companies in Europe be any different?!
I think that DesScorp's was trying to politely say that hyperbole, of he kind in the parent post and yours, is nothing more than soundbites being churned out by braying fuckwits.
The Government is 0% for the people? Really?
Elections don't matter in the slightest? Really?
You should cut yourself. Go deep.
What do you mean by "not precedent-based"?
All courts look at previous rulings when interpreting a law (if they can find relevant cases), since it's important that laws are applied consistently.
It's true, though, that the EU court doesn't have a Common Law system, like the UK and the USA, where the courts have a lot of leeway in establishing new practices which are practically laws in themselves.
This is absolutely silly, this notion that the US is on the only country that has concerns about piracy and copyright violation. Europe has IP laws too. This central argument... that if mean ole' America went away, everyone would happily download pirated content all day with support from governments... is ludicrous.
While it's true that Europe has its fair share of greedy corporations that push for harsher IP laws, the USA has been the main driving force for at least two decades. The diplomatic cables published by Wikileaks ("Cablegate") revealed that the USA is consistently working to get other countries to adopt more restrictive IP laws through diplomatic channels and trade agreements. There's no other country besides the USA who has both the clout and motivation to do this. (China has the clout, but not yet the motivation.)
In general, the USA tends to be a few years or a decade ahead in societal developments, and European countries tend to follow.
That doesn't mean European countries are innocent victims, of course - it's our own responsibility to vote our spineless and ignorant politicians out of office.
It's not about having or not having IP laws. Clearly IP laws are needed and useful. It's about the corporations abusing those laws and going as far as screwing basic liberties that we should all enjoy. And nobody can deny that probably the biggest entertainment industry is in U.S.
It's not so obvious... copyright, for example, was made into law long before economics had developed far enough to quantify the costs and benefits. (The benefit being more works being produced, and the cost being those works becoming available to fewer people.) Now that we know more, more and more evidence accumulate for the harmfulness of copyright, but almost nothing for its benefits. For example, all independent studies on music sales suggest that online piracy have a roughly zero net effect on sales.
It's even less harmful than testing the grapes at your super market, since the downloader doesn't prevent the song's owner from seling their song to someone else.
At most, the downloader deprives the song's owner of a potential sale. But not even that seems to hold true in practice - independent studies show that people spend their money on concerts or on other artists when they download songs, and that the availability of a song on filesharing networks has a roughly zero net effect on total sales.