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Avoiding Red Lights By Booking Ahead

Posted by Soulskill on from the might-get-bumped-if-they-overbook dept.

RedEaredSlider writes "Peter Stone, associate professor of computer science at the University of Texas at Austin, has presented an idea at the AAAS meeting today for managing intersections: a computer in a car calls ahead to the nearest intersection it is headed towards, and says it will arrive at a given time. The intersection checks to see if anyone else is arriving then, and if the slot is open, it tells the car to proceed. If it isn't, it tells the car that the car remains responsible for slowing down or stopping. He says that even with only a few connected cars, the system still works, even if the benefits are still only to those who have the connected vehicles."

43 of 299 comments (clear)

  1. What happens when people change their minds.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...before arriving at the light? How far ahead are they "booking" a slot? How long until the slot becomes available if the car with the reservation isn't going to arrive. This really only sounds useful in more rural areas. I can't see a city with lights on every block being able to implement this technology with any kind of efficiency.

    1. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by kermyt · · Score: 4, Interesting

      sure during peak hours this in not great for urban traffic but off peak times it would still be very feasible. It's about time Traffic and traffic control started communicating in a smart way. This sort of tech is all precursor to auto drive cars.

    2. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      Your post, Sir, assumes that we people in rural areas actually obey traffic signals. Especially during non-peak hours (I've never observed vehicles blowing red lights @ 3 a.m. down my street).

      With this design on a low traffic road, there should be just two possibilities: 1. You arrive at the traffic light, and the traffic light is green and no traffic from the other sides. 2. You arrive at the traffic light, the traffic light is red, and there _is_ traffic from the other sides. In other words, the light is very rarely red, but if it is red, then you absolutely _must_ stop or there will be an accident.

    3. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by HeLLFiRe1151 · · Score: 2

      I doubt this would have any effect driving during rush hour. However, I know I hate sitting at a red light @ 3 a.m. because some city worker decided that some other direction needs 10 minutes of green light.

      --
      I've got 101 mod points and you can't have them!
    4. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by todrules · · Score: 2

      If this could even slightly help the problem of just sitting at red lights when there's no other traffic around, I'm all for it. I absolutely loathe the "dumb, mindless" traffic signals that plague our streets. I waste entirely too much time (and gas) just sitting at red lights when there's no other traffic around. And, no, I don't live in a rural area.

    5. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by Fred+Ferrigno · · Score: 2

      London has had, since almost forever, a system composed of cameras and humans.

      Yes and with this you don't need either, which saves money and allows you to extend the system to areas that aren't as dense as London.

    6. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sorry... FAIL. This system will ONLY work if we remove humans as a variable in the equation.

      Seriously? FAIL? You find one particular scenario where it would provide optimal performance and somehow this means the system has failed? So what is your solution then? Do not implement a system that would make traffic flow better in 90% of cases just because the 10% would not be improved?

      <RANT>
      It is a curious reaction that we often see on /. on stories about inventions. People either dismiss it because of one edge case (like now), or they will say that they personally do not need the technology so it should not be implemented. Myself, I use public transport more often than I drive but that doesn't mean that I think we should not improve traffic flow for cars. To do so would be amazingly self-centered.
      </RANT>

      As to your particular concern, we are in the process of removing humans as a variable. Even ignoring the work being done on auto-driving cars, how many cars do you see with navigation systems in them these days. Sure, you don't input your destination into these every time if you know where you are going, but would you do so if it meant that you were more likely to get a dream run of green traffic lights?

    7. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by todrules · · Score: 2

      What kind of non-rural area do you live in where there's no traffic?

      North Atlanta, and, yes, there are side streets where there's only traffic in rush hour but pretty dead on the off-times. And, of course, because of the spike in traffic, there needs to be traffic lights. Unfortunately, they were built decades ago and not improved upon since then, so most are just on timers, which means that you just sit there until the light cycles.

      Plus, don't most lights go to flashing yellow (= 4 way stop) at off-peak times?

      Not the light right where I live. It never goes to flashing yellow. I typically spend 2-3 minutes at that light to turn left anytime I decide to go out, no matter the time or the traffic.

    8. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by todrules · · Score: 2

      I've lived in suburbia with all new streets and traffic lights, and, yes, those are great. What a godsend. However, I bet most inner-city traffic lights were probably built at least 30 or more years ago, and a lot of those were built on timers. And, of course, with the lack of transportation infrastructure upgrades, these lights still have the exact same technology that they had when they were built. This is just another example of our crumbling, outdated roadways.

    9. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by Anthony+Mouse · · Score: 2

      This sort of tech is all precursor to auto drive cars.

      Even before that, you can get excellent features like a heads up display that will tell you how fast to drive to hit all the lights green. "You are driving 43MPH. Accelerate to 47MPH and you will reach the intersection before the other car and the light will be green" etc.

    10. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by moderatorrater · · Score: 2

      This sort of tech is all precursor to auto drive cars.

      Not it's not. Auto driving cars would need to be able to coexist with normal cars and normal infrastructure before they could be widely used, so something like this is distinctly not a precursor.

      In addition, if the cars couldn't drive in normal traffic themselves, then someone would be able to hack the signal and tell every car approaching the intersection that they don't have to stop. Unless the car is still able to see the status of the light and the status of the cross traffic, this is too dangerous to use on the roads.

      In other words, auto driving cars need to surpass humans in driving skill in every major area before they can actually be used on roads. Something like what's being proposed here is a useful addition to self driving cars, but certainly not a precursor.

    11. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by sco08y · · Score: 4, Funny

      Good rant, but a few nitpicks:

      1. No, the usage of 'fail' was entirely appropriate.

      Defined by popular usage, FAIL means "there was a slight incongruity between what was promised and what was delivered, and by the way, I'm slightly retarded." (For comparison, EPIC FAIL is the same as FAIL, with the addendum, 'and I shat myself.')

      If the speaker had meant to imply that the system really didn't perform, he would have written that it performs "literally."

      2. If you ask one thousand experts about your great idea, you'll find that 990 of them aren't experts, 9 of the 10 remaining will only tell you all the ways it can't work, and the last guy will try to steal your idea.

    12. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by demonlapin · · Score: 2

      There are two downtown streets in my home city that are calibrated to provide a steady green once you get past a certain cross street. You can only clear all of the coordinated lights if you travel at least 40 MPH, but the speed limit is 30 MPH. It's a gold mine for the police department.

    13. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      I'd never get a ticket there - because I drive the speed limit. The only reason the gold mine exists is because people are stupid, not because of the calibration of the lights.

    14. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by mjwx · · Score: 2

      I'd never get a ticket there - because I drive the speed limit. The only reason the gold mine exists is because people are stupid, not because of the calibration of the lights.

      This,

      In the (Australian) state I live in, 75% of revenue from speed cameras goes to the Road Trauma Trust Fund, which is used to build and maintain roads. Realistically that money has to come from somewhere otherwise roads end up in disrepair, if not fines then it will end up coming out of tax. So speed camera's are not revenue raisers as much as tax minimisation for people smart enough not to speed.

      As of July this year, that number goes from 75% to 100%

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    15. Re:What happens when people change their minds.. by lupinstel · · Score: 2

      I can also cite data from the landmark case of Goofus V. Gallant.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Cthulhu.
  2. Roundabouts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Or you could just go with the simple solution and use roundabouts.

    1. Re:Roundabouts by topham · · Score: 4, Funny

      Tell that to the people in my neighbourhood who don't have a clue how to deal with a roundabout.

    2. Re:Roundabouts by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      Scary, isn't it. We had a roundabout put in one of our major intersections about a year ago (to much wailing and rending of garments). Perhaps 90% of drivers picked it up in the first few weeks. The other 10%, well, all I can say it's a shame that speeds are so low that we'll never get rid of them via traffic accidents. We just have to find some better way.

      Nobody really liked my idea of putting forks in some power outlets to see who would pull them out.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:Roundabouts by Nimey · · Score: 2

      People gripe about how hard roundabouts are to use, and I don't see it at all. Maybe it helps that the local ones were laid out intelligently so there's obviously only one way to go in - the entrances are canted to the right so that even the biggest idiot doesn't try to enter to the left.

      It was a rare bit of sanity from MoDOT.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
    4. Re:Roundabouts by Tim+the+Gecko · · Score: 2

      Now go to street view. I bet you can count 200 signaled stop lights in those same maps.

      This seems very unlikely in the Basingstoke example. In one mile of Oakridge Road there are twenty "intersections" between two roundabouts, but in every case the side road is a "Yield" ("Give Way" in UK terms). The only stop light you will see is actually on the easternmost roundabout. If you'd like another example of the relative numbers of traffic light intersections and roundabouts in the UK, try 300 Carmarthen Road, Swansea, to Maplin Electronics, Llanelli. There are 12 roundabouts (especially common in out-of-town shopping areas) and 10 traffic lights, though three of those are pedestrian crossings.

      I think you are trying to interpret European maps (roundabouts, yields, traffic lights), with a North American perspective (stop signs and traffic lights). Just take a look at Guyancourt, outside Paris, with more than 20 roundabouts in less than 2.5 square miles.

      Lets face it. Traffic circles are only used in a tiny percentage of all intersections,

      This is true, because there are so many minor intersections around.

    5. Re:Roundabouts by BasilBrush · · Score: 4, Informative

      One source says there are less then 1200 roundabouts in the UK.

      A slide in some American organisation's powerpoint presentation. It's ridiculously wrong.

      There are 66 cities in the UK. That figure would mean just 18 roundabouts per city. If you forgot about all of the ones on the motorways and A roads in the countryside and towns. Which anyone who knows the UK can see is stupidly low.

      Heck Milton Keynes alone has around 300 roundabouts, and thats only a town, not a city.

      There doesn't appear to be any count of the number of roundabouts in the UK. There are far too many to count.

      There's not really any reason to second guess why that powerpoint slide has it so wrong. But just for the hell of it... I guess they asked the UK Highways Agency. Which only maintains motorways and major trunk roads. Most roads and therefore roundabouts are under the jurisdiction of local councils. It's kind of like the difference between the US federal government and individual states and counties.

  3. Already implemented here by jayveekay · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are induction loops (metal dectors) buried in the pavement that tell the traffic lights about approaching cars. When my car passes over the loop it is telling the traffic signal at the intersection that I will be arriving within 10 seconds. If there is no cross traffic the light tells me to proceed by changing to green (or remaining green).

    1. Re:Already implemented here by icebike · · Score: 2

      Yeah, that works at like 3% of intersections in most big cities. The older the city, the less likely it is that you will find this. They may have the loops, but that doesn't always mean they will alter the clock for you. I've sat on loops with ZERO traffic coming from any direction and had the signals march thru their normal pattern. In many places the loops actually do nothing.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:Already implemented here by MicroSlut · · Score: 2

      Where do you see these 10 seconds ahead of an intersection? I only see them at the intersection. If these where put further away a simple computer would be able to evaluate the quantity of traffic in every direction and change the signal accordingly. As I see it now, I must pull up and stop at an intersection before I am detected.

    3. Re:Already implemented here by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      Oh, they do something... just not at the time of day that you're driving. Try driving at three or four in the morning some time, and you'll see just how well those sensors work.

      What this professor proposes is basically a massively scaled-down version of what I've been proposing for years. Unfortunately, that scaled-down nature of the proposal makes it a lot less useful in practice. To do traffic optimization well, you really need automated vehicles so that people register their destinations with a central system that can optimize which roads each vehicle takes, optimize which lanes go in which direction, and optimize when vehicles should pass through intersections to minimize stopping. The more information you have, the easier it is to make such decisions. More to the point, by knowing the entire route (rather than just one or two intersections ahead), you can do a much better job of optimization.

      For example, if you know that a vehicle passes through three traffic lights in a short period of time, you may find that by making the vehicle stop at the first light rather than the second light (or vice-versa), you shift its arrival at the third light enough so that a vehicle does not have to stop that otherwise would have stopped, resulting in an overall efficiency gain.

      Eventually, when nearly all cars have been converted to automatic drivers, you could leave the traffic lights in place, with all directions red by default, turning green only when a legacy manual vehicle approaches. Until then, however, having ten or twenty seconds of advance warning won't really help all that much. As others have said, we already have road sensors for this. If the lights are configured to not use the road loops, the operators are sure as heck not going to upgrade the lights to use a transponder-based system that gives them even more inputs to ignore.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    4. Re:Already implemented here by rrohbeck · · Score: 3, Informative

      And they often don't detect motorcycles so you stand at a red light for a few minutes without crosstraffic until you decide to go ahead against the red light.

      --
      thegodmovie.com - watch it
    5. Re:Already implemented here by ikkonoishi · · Score: 2

      Tape a magnet to the bottom of it. I'm serious.

      http://www.wikihow.com/Trigger-Green-Traffic-Lights

  4. I've been doing this for years by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Any time you are driving on surface streets (hate that term), you soon learn to "drive the stop-lights" by looking ahead a block or two. Its
    not that hard, and even when you can't see the lights driving just about the speed limit will be close enough to get you 5 greens out of 6 tries.

    That being said, anything that can guarantee more greens is welcome, but putting it in cars seems the wrong approach. If the stop lights just
    talked to each other you would have enough info. When Stoplight A can't clear its queue in the allotted green, you can pretty much bet stoplight B won't be able to do so when that slug of cars reaches it.

    In most cases the problem is dumb signals, hold overs from the Pleistocene, with no attempt to make traffic efficient.

    --
    Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    1. Re:I've been doing this for years by alphatel · · Score: 4, Funny

      I do this as well. It's called Booking Ahead, as in Hit The Gas. Beats the red light everytime.

      --
      When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
  5. Car? by stms · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why not just use smart phones it'd be just as simple to attach the correct sensor or it may be able to use the gps most of them already have.

  6. Yes! by ichthus · · Score: 2

    Yes! It is the year 2012, and our traffic lights are still running on timers. They're stupid, they waste time and fuel needlessly... they need to go. We have computers that can understand the spoken word, read the written word, and do whatever the hell it is that Kinect does. Our traffic semaphores should be far more intelligent than they are. I think I'd prefer something more along the lines of computer vision than and RF announcement -- for privacy reasons, but at least there's technology in the works.

    --
    sig: sauer
    1. Re:Yes! by Rennt · · Score: 2

      If the system was working we wouldn't be having this discussion now, would we?

  7. Benefits to connected vehicles? Sure. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    But it would seem like the unconnected vehicles - which would probably be the vast majority of traffic around these lights - would be impacted adversely. It's not as if it's a situation where connected vehicles benefit while the impact to others is neutral.

    This just seems like another concept designed to benefit a privileged few at the expense of the unwashed masses.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  8. A possible improvement by subreality · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the light doesn't have a slot knows there will be one available just a bit later, the light can signal the car to coast down from 45MPH to 35MPH, arriving just a bit later. By doing so it reduces the energy lost into the brakes and the car ends up coasting through the intersection on the green light instead of stopping and then having to restart just a few seconds later.

    You can do this manually by paying attention to what's going on in the next several stoplights. It saves gas and brake wear. It's kind of nice just cruising along and hitting all the lights. Getting feedback from the light would make it much more effective.

    Unfortunately it also drives some drivers crazy. They can't stand it that I'm going 35MPH in a 45MPH zone and go racing past... Just to end up stopped at a stoplight which then turns green a few seconds later and I go drifting on past. And still they don't get it.

    1. Re:A possible improvement by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

      Sometimes you have two of those morons and one changes into your lane, forcing you to stop. Happens to me all the time.

      --
      thegodmovie.com - watch it
  9. Could help encourage multiple services by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    By coming up with a system to retro-fit into current cars, that would add not just intersection negotiation, but show speed limits (which COULD then vary depending on conditions, time of day, etc), give info about traffic, etc. The advantage of this, is that doing simple speed limits will not entire too many. HOWEVER, the ability to continue through an intersection, combined with getting other info, would actually encourage ppl to buy this system. Another advantage of this, is that it can provide information back to the police, etc: cars are moving, but stopped at one intersection. Why is that? Becomes a reason to divert a squad assuming that one is close and not busy.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  10. The Good Professor is Confused by RonVNX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Perhaps things are different in Texas, but where I live the majority of traffic lights and stop signs are installed for the express purpose of impeding the flow of traffic. Trying to sell them a sensible system to improve traffic flow, reduce pollution and ticketable offenses is the last thing they'd be interested in.

    1. Re:The Good Professor is Confused by pclminion · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's fucking retarded. Try walking outside high noon in August in this city. Your face will melt off and your sneakers will turn into a puddle of gummy ooze.

      If you actually went out in that weather regularly maybe you'd acclimatize to it. Why live in perpetual war with your environment?

  11. Re:arduino transmitter time by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

    http://www.themirt.com/

    They ^^^ actually work, if you're stupid enough to use them.

  12. And the next step... by __Paul__ · · Score: 2

    ...laissez faire capitalist groups lobby to have the system modified so that those with the most money can buy slots at the traffic light.

    --
    worldmobilenet.com -- World Prepaid Wireless Internet plans
  13. This already exists in civilized countries... by Terje+Mathisen · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...but only for public transport!

    My wife worked for 9 years optimizing public transport in Oslo, Norway.

    One of the key items behind a significant speedup for both buses and trams was a system where each vehicle would signal ahead a given distance before arriving at an intersection, again as it entered, and finally as it left. If you visit Oslo and sit up front in a bus or tram you can see the visual feedback the driver gets: A single white LED mounted near the top of the traffic signal will light up, either blinking or in a steady state.

    There is (of course) a web site and a mobile app which will give you real-time information about any given bus/tram/line/stop, as well as rolling displays at all major stops that show the same info.

    http://trafikanten.no/ and http://m.trafikanten.no/

    Terje

    --
    "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
  14. Asian solution is better by tomhath · · Score: 2

    Drivers in most Asian (and many European) don't need wimpy traffic signals. Of course, Europeans don't always get it right