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Tech Billionaire-Backed Charter School Under Fire In Chicago
theodp writes "'As a nonprofit venture philanthropy firm,' boasts the billionaire-backed NewSchools Venture Fund, 'we raise philanthropic capital from both individual and institutional investors, and then use those funds to support education entrepreneurs who are transforming public education.' One recipient of the NewSchools' largesse is The Noble Network of Charter Schools, which received a $5,300,000 NewSchools 'investment', as well as a $1,425,000 grant from NewSchools donor Bill Gates. One way that Noble Street College Prep has been transforming education, reports the Chicago Tribune, is by making students pay the price — literally — for breaking the smallest of rules (sample infractions). Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel defended Noble after a FOIA filing revealed the charter collected almost $190,000 in discipline 'fees' — not 'fines' — last year from its mostly low-income students, saying the ironically exempt-from-most-district-rules charter school gets 'incredible' results and parents don't have to send their children there. Beyond the Noble case, some are asking a bigger question: Should billionaires rule our schools?"
Should billionaires rule our schools?
No, but I don't think they are (well, at least no more than they rule everything else). The summary makes two HUGE jumps here. It starts by saying that the NewSchools Venture Fund is giving grants to charter schools. Then it attempts to smear the very idea by criticizing one particular practice of one particular group of charter schools in Chicago. Then it makes an even bigger jump by equating this with billionaires "ruling" our schools (as if individual donors to this fund created this one controversial policy, or even had any idea that it existed). I think that whoever wrote this summary is being unfairly critical of charter schools, and even more unfair to those rich donors who are actually *trying* to help (as opposed to those who just hoard their money and or just their wealth to buy new Ferraris).
In an era where the rich are able to get by paying so few taxes in the U.S., I think that those who still CHOOSE to help our ailing schools should be praised, not chastised, for the policies of one particular charter school (and I don't even find their policy that egregious in the first place). It's nice to know that not *all* rich people are just greedy pricks who would say "fuck all" to the poor.
Ideally, the U.S. would have a system where this kind of charity isn't necessary in the first place. But until that day, I don't think we should turn away any help just because it comes from Bill Gates.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
There's a good video of a talk by public school teacher on this subject which is worth watching.
Chewing gum.
Carrying visible “flaming or hot chips.’’
Tardy to class more than 3 minutes.
Forgetting your belt.
Carrying a Sharpie or other permanent marker.
Forgetting to place quotation marks around another writer’s words.
Having visible Red Bull, other energy drinks or pop.
Not wearing dress pants or the school shirt.
What's the problem here? These seem pretty straightforward and hard to fuck up, less the Tardy to class one, but you know what? A lot of workplaces aren't cool with that either. I think it's not a bad thing.
If paying these fines is a problem, then make sure you don't get hit with them.
If you don't want your kid to be educated with a strict set of rules in the school, then choose a different school.
We've got enough problems in the US with the systems currently under corporate influence. Why give them another?
Govt and corps have merged, so all public schools are already under corporate dominance. The non-public schools aka private schools are also corporate controlled by definition. Not seeing the issue here.
"Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
I notice one example of a bad apple... and then a question about the whole bunch at the end. Without more examples, it's hard to say anything about the bunch.
What's wrong with rich people giving money to an already privatised school system? The US is the most capitalistic (large) economy in the world. You guys chose to have this system. You chose to have privatised schools. You chose to have a relatively small group of people who are relatively wealthy. Given all those democratic choices, if I were you, I'd be happy that some money still goes into schools through corporate charity.
If all that money went to dividend (money to shareholders), then nobody would be surprised. I'd say this is better.
First off, are these fines working?
Seriously, gum chewing in schools is a big problem. It is disgusting finding your pants stuck to a desk because someone stuck their gum there.
What's wrong with teaching about plagiarism with a fine. In the real world, fine's are much more.
What are the penalties of not paying a fine? (Can it be sent to collection and ruin your credit rating? That might be too much.)
Are the kids learning? Is the learning environment better than the comparable city schools thanks to the discipline?
OH MY GOD!!!!!
Disciplining children. I mean we removed spanking. We removed yelling. Now we're having issue with financial penalties.
Would someone like to propose an alternative for keeping out classrooms from being like zoos?
Maybe it's have a rule saying no food in class.
As for gum make the fine about if you make a mess
Now maybe in a few classes you may need a permanent marker so maybe retool that rule.
the dress code rules are fine as well as being late.
Students at Noble schools receive demerits for various infractions -- four for having a cellphone or one for untied shoelaces. Four demerits within a two-week period earn them a detention and $5 fine. Students who get 12 detentions in a year must attend a summer behavior class that costs $140.
Five dollars for four demerits appears reasonable. Do the students get a warning and then a demerit?
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
A $140 fine for 12 detentions? Really? Why is the student not simply suspended after 5 detentions in one year and expelled after 7-8 detentions?
I went to Missouri Military Academy. Although we didn't have to pay fines, sorry fees, there were a ton of different rules that would get you in trouble. Some demerits were worth more than others. For each point we got the joy and pleasure of marching in a square for 15 min/per demerit. Or 30 min of study hall, depending on the day, or holding an 8 lbs rife straight out for 5 min. The only thing we had to pay with was our free time. In a non boarding school situation money is the only thing you've got to work with, and it has the effect of getting the parent involved as well, since they are paying. I'm sure life isn't good for the kids when mom and dad get a bill for $X and the kid get to spend his time at home working it off. It's looks like the cost of the demerits are fairly cheap, less than a pack of off brand smokes. So it's not like people are getting saddled with huge costs. Sure the list of demerits seems pretty nit picky, but I've experienced worse. "Not sitting up straight, Running in front of the admin building, Gigline not straight." I'm glad some schools out there are trying something different, esp if it seems to be working.
I dislike the fines, but this is EXACTLY the way things like this should be tried out. Try things at relatively small scale and on a population that volunteers for it. This is exactly the way medical research is carried out. If you want the cancer treatment that looks promising, but might not actually work, you have to volunteer to get it and it's available to a limited number of people.
Contrast this with what we usually do: entire school districts, or worse, entire states, or MUCH worse, the whole country tries some harebrained scheme, or even some halfway decent sounding scheme, which turns out to have real problems. Take No Child Left Behind, for example. Testing to measure performance sounds like a really good idea. Could we perhaps have tried it out on a smaller group than the whole country in order to find out it doesn't work?
*I* don't like the idea, but my kids aren't going there. Leave them alone unless there's sufficient data to prove this performs worse than the default.
Incredibly good, I assume.
In evaluating the school, I think you have to first judge how well it is serving the students and families. Then things like the welfare of the teachers and the quality of the facilities. The billionaire connection is rather far down the list of things that I would be concerned about.
Should billionaires rule our schools?
First answer these questions:
1) Will the Billionaires try to make more people like themselves, or more worker drones?
2) If the Billionaires will freely give us the secrets to being Billionaires, do we want our kids to become Billionaires?
If my child grew up to be Warren Buffet, I wouldn't be too upset, but I don't want my kids to be or marry a Don Trump.
A side question is "Do the Billionaires really know how they got where they are, and can they teach it?" (If they inherited their initial money, they will have a hard time teaching kids how to do that.)
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
We've got enough problems in the US with the systems currently under corporate influence. Why give them another?
Yeah and look at how great a job the government has done running those public schools! Some of the students might even be able to read by the time they graduate!
/sarcasm
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
The best correlation of student success is parental interest in their kids education. I come from immigrant family were this was a factor. I and my brothers all received at least one ivy league degree. I've seen poor immigrants from east Europe and Asia do well even when the family did not have a lot of money. Unfortunately the two largest minority groups in the USA do not have lots of family interest in education. They dont do as well even when their schools are well funded.
At least these schools give one a choice. Unfortunately, I bet that everybody still has to fund public schools whether their children go there or not--and while that's precisely analogous to the "Microsoft tax", I bet there will be slashdotters who will defend it.
In the real world, fine's are much more.
Improper use of an apostrophe. $50 fine and 20 points from Gryffindor.
Generally it's better to keep the child in school learning, however imperfectly, than having them running around the streets on suspension. You have to ensure that disruptive pupils don't impact on other children's learning, but the principle is a good one.
I think that some of the infractions are rather silly and over the top, but your hyperbole is unwarranted.
What the rest of the world does or does not earn in a day has absolutely no bearing on fines in a US school. Zero. Zilch, Nada.
Saying that some exist in America (too) is at least hitting closer to home, but also has no bearing here. The school is an optional alternative to public schools. If the parents cannot afford their children's fines, they may always move them (back) to the "free" public schools.
Billionaires are the people who (in general) rose above their competition and found great success. Why wouldn't you want them to control schools? Does it really make more sense to have schools controlled by mediocre individuals?
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
Actual, better pretty much any group than Public Sector Unions.
Fix the System:
1. Triple every teacher's salary
2. Eliminate Collective Bargaining and Tenure, replacing with individually negotiated Employment Contracts with a maximum 3-year term.
3. Teachers without Employment Contracts have their salaries available for merit-based increase biennially.
3. Eliminate Pensions.
In short, make teachers' jobs like most every other valued job for which you want constant strong competition among skilled employees and potential employees.
Should billionaires rule the world?
Students have to be careful carrying a Sharpie, they could get cut!
If you have seen the sheer amount of graffiti in your average inner city school, you would understand that this rule is not as silly as it sounds. If you want to create a positive educational environment, one of the first steps is not having gang tags splayed on every open surface in your school.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
So you're fine with private organizations imposing fines on a whim?
It is troubling that we have to get to this to impose discipline, and it sure raises a few eyebrows. But on a whim? They aren't. These are infractions. Yes, not having your shirt buttoned or chewing gum, those are behavioral infractions. Fining over them can be argued to be questionable, but flagging these kind of things as infractions is perfectly reasonable. You need to get off your cornbread boundaries and visit other countries with more successful education systems than ours - wearing a proper school uniform is typically one of their common features. There are many reasons why this is so, and it is not rocket science why it works and why it is necessary.
And that a school teaches its students to submit to such arbitrary authority?
It's called discipline, something that apparently you were never exposed to during your primary and secondary education.
well college does not tech all the skills you need for the job and in some jobs you need a TECH SCHOOL / apprenticeships.
Part of why schools are bad is the TEACH THE TEST IDEA and College as to many classes that you pass by just cramming for the test.
This is conditioning to obey authority.
Maybe you just phrased your post poorly, but it comes across as a really ignorant rant. Anybody who deals with kids understands that they need to respect authority and follow the rules. Some parents/educators are more permissive than others, and some are better at finding a balance than others. But nobody allows a kid to smear feces around all the walls of their home just to avoid conditioning them to obey authority. They darn well better obey authority on the issue of feces-smearing, or there will be consequences. That's not destroying the spirit of the child, that's just teaching self-control and self-discipline, which will serve the child well in the future. Maybe you don't like the charter school's rule about sharpie pens, but it is ignorant and unproductive to response across the board with an anti-authority perspective.
Barretta quotes aside, this is something that public schools are no longer able to do.
You can't "punish" Johnny for fear of reprisal from a variety of sources, and make no mistake, with the levels of parental non-involvement, Johnny *needs* some reining in.
Now, does the school need to keep $190K of "fees"? No. They need to make an effort to do something visible and positive with that money, preferably involving the students, in their communities. That would be a lesson everyone could get behind.
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
Should college dropouts rule our schools?
Why not have a few college dropouts teach at schools? (Assuming they are successful in some aspect of their lives)
The people who teach and lead in the school system, did well in the school system. Getting people for whom the current system works to teach and run the schools leads to a system just like it was before.
If you have a system that is running at 100% efficiency, as well as it can, then it makes sense to put the same kind of people in charge year after year. But if it isn't, then perhaps it's time to shake things up.
When I was in school, there wasn't a single teacher that had any idea how to start and run a small business. (Except, perhaps for the ones that left to do just that, and they weren't teaching business) Leadership was always mentioned as being important and necessary to get into a good university and do well in life, but there were zero classes in leadership. You were just supposed to learn it by osmosis.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
We cant have THAT in our schools!
So, state and federal laws prohibit schools from using corporal punishment as a means of keeping children, who have never received any type of corrective training in the home, from disrupting the class rooms across the country.
Private citizens decide (after 30 years of failure by the Federal, State, and Local Education Bureaucracy) they can do better. They use their own resources to fund schools that will, of all the hair-brained ideas, EDUCATE THE CHILDREN... (the nerve of some people)
Said Federal and State laws still prohibit corporal punishment, so they come up with a way to punish pupils for behavior that is improper, or disrupts the classroom. Charge them MONEY!
SOMEONE STOP THEM!
Imagine if this were to be tolerated!
In just a few short years there would be TERROR in our schools, as QUIET CLASSROOMS learned MATH, SCIENCE, and (god forbid) READING!
IT WON'T STOP THERE!!!!
"Students" that would have happily disrupted both their own learning, and that of other children will be faced with the HORROR of sitting quietly and LEARNING, or being expelled from school for their inappropriate behavior!
THIS CAN NOT BE TOLERATED!
We can not stand by and allow these BILLIONAIRES to DISCIPLINE these poor helpless children. If these BILLIONAIRES cause these POOR families discomfort, by charging them MONEY for breaking rules, WHAT MESSAGE ARE WE SENDING!
Society has standards that all individuals should be expected to conform to? INTOLERANCE!
Children should learn early to respect those around them, and expect respect towards themselves? TOTALITARIANISM!
And worst of all!
Those that cause trouble will be PUNISHED!
And that PUNISHMENT causes DISCOMFORT!
... it all really avoids the main issue. Not all students can be expected to do well or even like school. School is work and if schools want to see results kids should be paid to get high marks. "Learning" masks what learning really is - a lot of work. Now some of us like/love learning but statistically speaking most people don't like learning, especially things they think are hard or tedious.
Learning in the modern world is a means to an end, lets face this fact. Many societies in the past got by without formal mass schooling just fine. Only in our modern world where we make unrealistic demands in the face of limited human ability do schools 'fail'. What we have failed to do is fail to build a society against the reality of the limits on human potential.
They missed off:
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
My SO works in the DC office responsible for training the evaluators who assess teachers in the classroom. I don't know exactly how it worked under Rhee, but I do know the way it works now... about half of teacher evaluations are based on standardized test scores, and the other half is based on in-class observation by professional evaluators.
No one is going to argue that teachers can overcome the strong influences of parental involvement and other exogenous factors. However, of the things that can be dealt with in the school, teacher quality is likely the most important. If year after year you have a teacher whose students show no improvement at all and there are other teachers in the same school (and even same subject) who students do show improvement, what do you do?
There are in fact efforts to identify high quality teachers and disseminate their practices to the rest of the teaching population (this was my SO's last work project), so it's not as if there are no resources going into actually improving the quality of teachers in the classroom. However, the fact remains that in many cases you have teachers who may very well be veterans of the classroom but who frankly aren't all that good at their job. Tenure for primary and secondary teachers in this day and age doesn't make sense - you need to be able to fire poor performers.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
"Should billionaires rule our schools?"
To that question, I answer NO! At least to schools that receive ANY public money. If it is an ENTIRELY private schools, OK. Most charter schools (at least in my state) receive a voucher from the parents which, in my opinion, is the same as getting state money.
On another front, which I find extremely troubling, is universities accepting Koch Foundation funds. The money coming from this foundation comes with BIG strings attached. The university has to agree to allow the Koch Foundation to veto any professor tenure for any reason. There goes your academic independence. If the foundation wants to entirely fund and buy that university, I find that to be acceptable. Right now, public funding of universities is declining so more and more universities are tempted to accept that money and the strings that come with it.
Chicago has how many public schools in it? And this is ONE private school you have a problem with? As noted, sending your children there is a choice - something the vast majority of parents lack for their children.
BTW, Chicago teachers, after being forced to forgo this year's 4% pay raise are trying to negotiate a 25% raise next year, with another 4.5% the following year - based, in large part, on the extension of the school day. Apparently the teachers that used to argue they were salaried professionals are now arguing they are hourly workers.
This is also Chicago, where TVs are falling and killing small children at alarming rates.
This is Chicago, the city that was recently ranked the most corrupt city in America.
This is Chicago, where nearly 40% of all students dropped out before graduation LAST YEAR.
This is Chicago where almost 31% of students either meet or exceed standards on the PSAE examinations.
Did parents know about these "fees" when they enrolled? Were the reasons for them explained to the parents when they enrolled their children?
There must have been some reason these parents choose to enroll their children in this school.
Ken
it's just a scheme to allow the rich folks kids to buy bad behaviour and keep the poor ones in their place. In other words an extension of the whole American Dream.
I really doubt that it is intended that way. What rich kid really wants to blow $5 in order to chew gum? And given that the school primarily is attended by low income students, I really doubt that any of them are going to throw away their money like that.
Now, it might be useful to have an exponential scale, if you are really concerned about rich students buying their right to chew gum. First offense, $5, next offense $25, next offense $625, next offense $390625. I doubt they'll try for five.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Did you even read the article you linked to?
"With Tax Day coming on Thursday, 47 percent has become shorthand for the notion that the wealthy face a much higher tax burden than they once did while growing numbers of Americans are effectively on the dole. Neither one of those ideas is true. They rely on a cleverly selective reading of the facts. So does the 47 percent number."
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
...get paid for good performance? If not then it is clearly biased to suppress students into being good little zombies.
In my ignorant rant I didn't both to differentiate between the practices of telling normal kids not to smear feces on the walls, and that of not conditioning them to be good corporate workers and obedient police state followers, because I didn't anticipate other people on Slashdot would be so stupid as to not know the difference. I thank you for enlightening me that there are such people.
Of course not, a teacher is a teacher is a teacher, they are interchangeable professionals and can teach anything to anybody - as long as you make sure you give them a copy of the text book that has all the answers.
Ken
Having the group that benefits from the fine also decide what needs to be punished, and whether students are guilty or not, is a conflict of interest. Of course, such conflicts of interest exist in the real world as well, but it's worse the closer the lawmakers, judge, and cashier are to each other. And in the real world, we recognize such things as potential for corruption--most people don't have a high regard for speed traps, and recognize that they are more about making revenue than actually improving safety, because of the perverse incentives involved.
I suppose the students are taught a lesson, but not quite the one they want to teach.
Why not have a few college dropouts teach at schools? (Assuming they are successful in some aspect of their lives)
Because, statistically, Bill Gates is an outlier. The people who 'do well', who I want to teach my kids, made it through college, or tech school, or an apprenticeship. If I've got to bet on what the best path to success is, I'm putting my money on someone who completed some course of education.
I don't want sports starts speaking to my kids either. Odds are that most kids who aspire to play pro sports will fail miserably. Those that make it are rotten role models for all but a lucky few. Not that they are bad people. Just way out on the far end of the bell curve.
Have gnu, will travel.
What, as opposed to the 47% of citizens that now net zero federal taxes at all? That the top 1% already pays 40% of the national tax burden?
That's exactly the opposite of what the article said. Did you actually read the article you are linking to? If so, then you're deliberately misrepresenting it.
The actual headline is:
"Yes, 47% of Households Owe No Taxes. Look Closer."
The article says that's true only if you define "taxes" to exclude payroll taxes. It says:
"About three-quarters of households pay more in payroll taxes than in income taxes."
I really get pissed off when people try to have an intelligent, informed conversation and you have to spend 15 minutes checking the conservative sources and have their facts turn out to be wrong. Deliberately distorting facts is the worst thing you can do, IMO. Negligently distorting facts is a pretty close second.
It's a waste of time to try to have an intelligent debate with conservatives. The time is better spent reading Paul Krugman http://www.playboy.com/magazine/playboy-interview-paul-krugman and going to Occupy Wall Street to figure out how to organize politically to stop them from destroying the country.
"Students aren't required to go to the school,"
Tell that to the truant officer.
The zombies in government are paid for their performance by billionaires and the "market" is doing so well at privatizing our representative democracy why not have them do similar things with our schools, teachers, and students.
Those stickers, stars, points, and grades are only metaphors today's kids don't know what a metaphor is, they need real-world money to make them move. Intellectual curiosity and interest are not necessary if not dangerous to the social Darwinist society we value so highly.
As for helping others or society, that is such a primitive concept only perpetuated by some extremist religious people; those 2000 year old beliefs are the dreaded socialistic plague! People must SHOP and make as much money as they can so they can CONSUME and that is the only modern civilized way to to help others. People who do not learn this are fools and unfit to continue just as a weak animal quickly becomes prey; this is nature and we shouldn't oppose it just because of some ancient socialist teachings.
Am I the only one seeing the irony that a billionaire is promoting this with charity for the weak? He has lost his way! The school should be allowed to fail. ;-)
http://www.flackcheck.org/lincoln-campaign/honestly-abe-2
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
I think you're sort of on the right track. The problem is how much do we respect the students' ability and right to informed consent? Do the students' have a voice at all, do they deserve one, and for that matter, how informed are the parents going into these experiments? This is true of both large and small project, and solutions are hard to come by, which is part of the issue with the snails pace of educational reform.
NCLB isn't a new idea, in fact, that isn't even the real name. It is actually a set of additional rules for Title 1 funding from the Elementary and Secondary Education Act from 1965. Title 1 federal funds have had various stipulations through the years, and the current AYP goals on annual tests are just the latest. There are other sections, also, like Title 3, which deals with funds for language learners. The federal government can't influence educational policy directly, so they gather up as much money as they can, and then attach as many strings as they can, so that eventually federal policy becomes mandated at the local level. Who does this affect the most? The least funded schools in low socioeconomic areas. Wealthy school districts don't need Title 1 money, and have always been able to just tell the feds to screw off.
But since not all schools are funded the same way (in California, look at the "Basic aid" vs. "Revenue Limited" issue which ensures the disparity) the federal money is very, very important to some districts. In fact, my current position is funded entirely through federal funding sources. Some here (actually many, having read through the comments) would say I'm exactly the kind of person who is part of the problem with public education and spending. I work out of the district office as a technology coach for integration with curriculum and teacher training, as well as a bulk of the data collection and analysis for student performance. Here's a quick hint: if you make test scores and data more and more important to schools, they will hire more and more statisticians and administrative analysts.
Anyway, sorry for the rant. I get that people all over aren't happy with what schools are doing and how much they cost, but I also don't think people understand how complicated it all is, and how impossible it is to deliver on all the expectations with a fraction of the money. It wears me out a bit.
The rules, of course, must be agreed to beforehand. So perhaps this will teach people to read agreements before they sign them. This would be great if the next generation of people for instance would be:
Unwilling to hand over their private information for the chance to play cheezy games
Unwilling to agree to EULAs that restrict their ability to return buggy or useless software
Unwilling to sign a cell phone agreement that gives no rights to the consumer
Unwilling to sign completely one-sided employment agreements
etc.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
"$5 seems enough to be discouraging to the students without breaking anybody's back."
What happens when the kickbacks start? Or when the cutbacks for profits start? Idiotic experiments for bonuses. Don't forget "Greed is good". I guess we've given up on teaching kids anything but the value of money. How does that work when the dollar is worth pennies? How about when the bigger kids respond to the fine by using violence?
Remember authority only works if its respected. Just because you level a fine doesn't mean that kid won't take it out of your hide. When I was in high school, there were guys beating up the principals.
How about just getting rid of the babysitting/social club schools have become and have the kids educated at home. With the internet there's no excuse for these dog-eat-dog sub-communities any longer. Of course, that would mean parents would have to be parents instead of ambition chasers with kids on the side.
As opposed to the morons who currently rule?
I'd rather have the Billionaires, to be honest. They know how to produce, innovate, and succeed, and that's the kind of culture I would want my child to learn in.
Bureaucrats only know how to snivel and play their government-granted power trip.
Would you want your kid learning from a successful person who has ambition and drive, or someone no more qualified to cop an attitude behind the desk of the DMV than they are to teach?
The same people freaking out last week over the 4 year old's lunch, are now fully in support of this.
As this school is not part of the public school system, there are other public schools as an alternative for the student to attend.
Compulsion to attend a school is different from compulsion to attend this school.
SIG: HUP
Why yes, that's just what we need, more discipline in schools. And if that doesn't work, then we need even more discipline. And so on.
Perhaps it's time to throw out the old model, and create a new one. Pity that the effects of the current system dull the creativity of its 'products,' such that the proper solution may never occur to them.
I am John Hurt.
OK here's what perhaps people are missing about this scheme and what's really insidious
Researchers know that paying someone money to learn (or the reverse of this, fining them for not learning) has the effect of making learning uninteresting to the learner unless money is involved as an incentive / disincentive.
http://www.rochester.edu/pr/Review/V72N6/0401_feature1.html
This of course perfectly describes the mind set known as "greedy" where all expenditure of mental effort is evaluated first and foremost on a transactional basis and is never its own reward.
The people who most fit the above description are of course just those billionaires funding these schemes.
So these schools become narcissistic projections of the funder's own egos and value systems.
But these personalities don't invent, they aren't creative, they aren't the source of technological progress.
Rather they're the specific personalities that fill the role of monopolist winners within a system that is guaranteed to produce such winners in any event. Given our system of deregulatory capitalism and pliable legislators and courts, someone was going to be Bill Gates and someone was going to be Larry Ellison. They're not unique in that sense.
Ellison himself characterized the early buggy database as a "roach motel for for information- data goes in, but it never comes out..." which is not surprising since he invented none of it and barely understood E F Codd's relational model to begin with. Nevertheless he's a business winner.
Gates famously invented nothing of note; he was good in his capacity as a narcissistic leader and good at surrounding himself with co-dependents who could be relied on to fiercely buy into the cult of personality and do actual work.
This is in marked contrast to the mindset of the lowly researcher who actually invents new technology and makes actual discoveries. This type of person is curious for curiosity's sake and feels wonder at things that motivates her towards knowledge for knowledge's sake. Some of them become entrepreneurs it's true but they're two different personality types- one is mercantile and transactional and fundamentally disinterested in anything that won't make her money and the other is more likely to seek out a position in life which will let her pursue her interests and be comfortable. All of academia is built on this basic fact.
More likely the real reason is to weed out the troublemakers by bleeding their parents to the point they have to drop out, leaving the unquestioningly compliant who will do as their told to avoid going back to the nearly un-funded public schools due to white flight or under-funded due to the UMC whining about property tax rates.
Raising a group of children to think that as long as they have enough money they can do whatever they please... Sounds like humanity to me. What's the issue here? Is it that we're teaching them this lesson too soon instead of letting them figure it out for themselves the first time they have to buy their way out of trouble as an adult? I guess that's a big turning point in the life of any financially successful "bad" person, and we shouldn't take that sense of discovery away from them.
Good point, normal kids should have normal role models and normal aspirations.
In my kid's school, when they study people, they study the outliers, Presidents, civil rights leaders, inventors. (Some never graduated school) My oldest has always earned straight 'A's, and always tests at 99 percentile. She *is* an outlier.
I don't have anything against people who graduated College. I have a CS degree and my wife has a PhD., but I won't discount a successful person that doesn't have the educational certifications.
I second what you say about sports stars. Being a genetic outlier doesn't tell a kid anything to help them if the child is not genetically gifted. But, I suspect that following the advice of Bill G. *could* be useful to someone starting a small business.
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
"Maybe you don't like the charter school's rule about sharpie pens, but it is ignorant and unproductive to response across the board with an anti-authority perspective."
He may be a little extreme but I haven't seen is any comments about the public school system is over a hundred years old. It's had to deal with generational growth and depopulation of districts, value shifts, and major culture changes. How long do you think a charter school will stick around when a the district population changes(kids grow up, company leaves town) causing a decrease in students and income? The charter school is doing great with donations from billionaires but what happens when it just has to depend on the locals and still has to take everyone? Some how I doubt the end result will be any different, especially over generations. Fact is your parent poster is probably closer on target than most of us. If business will cut money on oil pipeline maintenance to increase profits what about your kids in little slave factories(once public eye shifts) in the name of profit?
Of course not, a teacher is a teacher is a teacher, they are interchangeable professionals and can teach anything to anybody - as long as you make sure you give them a copy of the text book that has all the answers.
Sorry, I'm missing your point. Are you saying it's not reasonable to expect a school teacher to have real world experience?
All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
"... some are asking a bigger question: Should billionaires rule our schools?" The bigger question is, "Do we want unaccountable government monopolies ruling our schools?" Our present "system of education" is clearly not working. We should be examining worthwhile alternatives.
For readers who are more interested in K12 virtual schooling (both private and charter) and less interested in whether or not TFA is describing actual malfeasance, I'd just like to give a quick shout out to Connections Academy (http://www.connectionsacademy.com) which operates charters in several states as well as being available as a private option nationally.
To make a long story short, I've experienced CA through the lens of four grade school children over a few different years, and I was thouroughly impressed the entire time. Honestly, given the miserable public K12 experience I had, I was jealous of them the whole time. The curriculum they provide is solid, well rounded, and challenging. The online system is clear and functional. We went through their charter in Oregon, and their local staff were all Ore. public school employees, and they were just as happy to be teachers for the charter as we were to be students/parents.
Obviously YMMV with this particular organization, or any other one that is out there like K12 Academy, IQ Academy, or some of the other orgs out there. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that we're far enough along in the evolution of virtual schooling that you don't need to accept "bleeding edge" pitfalls of early adoption if you want to get your kids into a virtual school. As far as TFA goes, I wouldn't touch these guys with a 10 ft. pole. Even within the constraints of your local charter system, you'll probably have options to choose from. So if you're worried about a "billionaire" running your school, don't choose that charter. Duh. Now when some state finally gets around to subcontracting their entire system to a single vendor... THAT is when you get your hackles up.
So enlighten me. Do you make a 1 or 2-year-old stop smearing feces on the wall because you successfully reason with him and convince him it's not a beneficial activity, or do you both reason with him as much as he can, and also require him to submit to the authority of his parents?
As far as the whole "good corporate workers" thing, I'm still not sure I see your point. I'd like to raise my kids so that they can aim high in life and maybe work for themselves some day (as I do), but doing a job well (yes, obeying your boss) can be a very effective step toward achieving that goal. Being an anti-authoritarian troublemaker in an employment situation is not generally a recipe for success of any type. It comes down to self discipline, which includes choosing your battles. If you refuse to take down the girlie poster in your cubicle or refuse to follow speed limits, you are probably just being a jerk, and aren't necessarily developing the self discipline it will take to stand on principle when it counts (opposing unethical boss, standing up to police state brutality).
(I'm using the pronoun "you", but not talking about you literally, no offense intended.)
I also don't think people understand how complicated it all is, and how impossible it is to deliver on all the expectations with a fraction of the money. It wears me out a bit.
So, disappoint someone. Deliver on fewer expectations, the expectations that parents actually care about, and lay off all the statisticians and administrative assistants that are needed to comply with Title 1. I'm sure that Christy (by Catherine Marshall) was not concerned about federal funding.
Oh, and while I'm talking of impossible dreams, let's get corporations out of politics. The teacher unions are a scourge on the nation.
But that's not my call. In local school board elections, I've never voted for a member of a teacher's union, but they keep being elected. The non-members I vote for never win.
Have a nice time.
Funny that you mention a work of fiction that's more about religion than it is about education. The ideal in the USA since the beginning of public schools has been to hire women as teachers, due to "being gentler and more sympathetic towards children" (Horace Mann), with the added benefit that you could pay them 1/3 of what you would have to pay a man making them an "attractive and economical hire". Which is completely reinforced by your cited (fictional) evangelical going on a mission for god into the rough wilderness, teaching manners and hygene for pennies and then marrying a man when her mission is done (which also means that it's time for a new teacher).
I guess when your ideals are that fucked up and antiquated, then yes, unions seems like a scourge and everyone needs to get off your lawn.
I truly appreciate the way you have distorted an opposition to brainwashing kids into obedience to the corporate state and police state, and turned it into a one-sided rant about feces through several posts. No obsession there at all!
Parents need to guide their children to respect others, and to think and get along. That's expected as a duty of parenthood. Conditioning children to obey all authority blindly however, is not. I'm sure ardent Republicans who worship authority and the corporation think otherwise, but so what?
"you are probably just being a jerk," A lovely choice of words, noted.
Making eye contact constantly and tracking the speaker. Wonderful- do they teach how to take notes while not looking at their pen/pencil and paper? Great choice; follow the rules so you don't get fined, or take the chance so you don't fail.
Has anyone noticed as increasingly weird rules are applied, education results keep going down? The education system seemed to turn out pretty good people back in the 1920s-1960s (K-12 kids). Going to the moon, creating nukes, that kind of big stuff. Now we're worried about nail clippers and Tylenol in school rooms. And it's not like private schools are much better, either, since they build reputations with equally weird shit.
Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
I truly appreciate the way you have distorted an opposition to brainwashing kids into obedience to the corporate state and police state, and turned it into a one-sided rant about feces through several posts. No obsession there at all!
lol!
Parents need to guide their children to respect others, and to think and get along. That's expected as a duty of parenthood.
Agreed.
Conditioning children to obey all authority blindly however, is not.
Sure. But for a child to obey parental authority and the parent-delegated authority of teachers and school administrators is not "obeying all authority blindly".
I'm sure ardent Republicans who worship authority and the corporation think otherwise, but so what?
Huh?
"you are probably just being a jerk," A lovely choice of words, noted.
OK, as long as you also note that I was very careful to clarify in my post that "you" doesn't mean "you" literally, but is just a dialectic device for working through a topic of discussion. No offense, dude.
That's a fun fantasy, isn't it?
- Income taxes only exist in USA since 1913, so a fantasy it is not, when it's based on 200 years of fact.
If you have two neurons communicating with each other you would know that is an impossible thing to do, government would collapse if income tax went away completely. Your "liberties" would go away with it.
- you don't even have 1 neuron, never mind 2. USA became the most productive country in the world, creating most of the wealth before income taxes were created.
Oh you poor shmuck.
On February 20, libertarian activist and Iraq War veteran Adam Kokesh, and Nathan Cox, co-founder with Kokesh of Veterans for Ron Paul, hosted a rally and march for veterans and active duty service members who support the Texas Congressman for the 2012 Republican nomination. The "Ron Paul Is the Choice of the Troops" rally began at noon in the Sylvan Theater by the Washington Monument in Washington, D.C.. Troops marched on the White House in a 48 x 8 formation, totaling 384, and they were joined by roughly a hundred supporters and observers.
You can't handle the truth.
I'm not sure why people think charter schools are private ... they are public schools that have been given control over various aspects of school life (teaching philosophies, structure, etc.). They are part of the local public school district, and many (if not most) of the teachers are members of the union. Charter schools receive funding from the public school pool but also raise money on their own (as do most public schools for special events, etc.).