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Canada's Conservatives Misled Voters With Massive Robocall Operation
choongiri writes "Elections Canada has just traced thousands of illegal phone calls made during the 2011 federal election to a company that worked for the Conservative Party across the country. The automated VOIP 'robocalls' appeared to be designed to stop non-Conservative voters from casting ballots in key ridings by falsely telling voters that the location of their polling stations had changed, causing them to go to the wrong location on election day. This news casts serious doubt on the legitimacy of Canada's Government. The Conservatives narrowly won their 'majority' by 6,201 votes in 14 ridings, with only 39% of the popular vote." For those as unfamiliar with the term "riding" in this context as I was, here's Wikipedia's explanation.
Some calls apparently were from people claiming to be with the Liberal party, acting rude, calling at very late/early hours, in an attempt to cause people who said they supported the Liberal party to not vote for them. These calls happened in multitudes of ridings (districts for you yanks) including Etobicoke Centre where the Conservative candidate won by only 26 votes.
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Read a Canadian newspaper (web or paper) or watch tv. Been in the main stream media for a couple of days.
They also made significant changes to the election system and advertised it poorly, several years ago. You Americans in the audience might be familiar with this sort of tactic: requiring forms of identification that younger and poorer voters were less likely to have, in the name of combating electoral fraud. I worked the polls that year and it was a real goddamn treat explaining to people from all walks of life that they couldn't vote because they didn't bring the right ID. Some came back later. Some didn't. The whole thing was an awful bottleneck.
There hasn't been a government elected by the majority of Canadians since 1949! In fact I remember a government that publicly stated they would abolish a national sales tax and then didn't! That same government lasted for 7 years, through two elections, never getting more than 41% of the vote! Shocking I tell you. Just shocking.
It is a stretch to say that this "casts serious doubt on the legitimacy of Canada's Government'. It is disturbing and not inside baseball.
However, the government needs 154 seats to form a majority in the 308 seat lower house and it has 165, an 11 seat margin. Even if they lost all 14 of these narrowly contested ridings, they would still have had a minority government.
How many were fooled by these calls? Certainly some were, even hundreds might have been. But enough to flip more than one or two seats the other way? I doubt it.
The fine article is in the National Post. I'm not a huge fan, but that is certainly mainstream. Also, it was mostly known the Conservatives were behind this when the news broke around election time. That EC has now found some more evidence isn't too surprising. However, I'm sure they'll not get enough evidence to actually do anything about it.
American mainstream news generally doesn't give a shit about international events unless it involves celebrities, celebrities dying, normal people dying en masse, or distant places that the government claims to be warring with or policing. Canadian politics simply aren't worth column inches, unless it directly affects the States or the media's ability to follow a story.
So, some illegal calls are just fine, then. And the media is being biased when they report about them.
I can't believe we have to debate this.
Our fine Conservative party is working as designed, nothing new to report. It's funny the crap that people will put up with - obvious lies about war, torture, electoral fraud - once they've decided one party is 'tough' and well-organized and the other are hapless fools. As Hunter Thompson said in '72, there are only two real parties, the Winners and Losers. And people would rather go with a Winner than with Honest. (Also, the Liberals have been spiraling downwards since they were clearly convicted - in the public mind and indeed in a few court cases - with brazen corruption about using public money for their own adverts. They haven't done their time in exile yet, so we're kind of stuck with the Conservatives.)
But my Not Utterly Off-Topic factoid is that "riding" is not the only thing that has vanished in England but survives in Canada. I was looking up the "Sheriff of Nottingham" once and wondered how "Sheriff" had translated from the 1100's to a western lawman. Turns out it's a slurring of "Shire Reeve", where "Reeve" was the commoner that kept order, provided public services, and collected taxes on behalf of the nobleman that owned the shire. It mentioned that "Reeve" survives today only in small Canadian municipalities that aren't big enough to call the head a "Mayor".
There's a big difference between a minority and a majority government. And who's to say what the effect was? There was large scale elections fraud by the party that won the election, thus, their right to govern is in question. Even if no ridings were swayed, whoever was involved violated the elections act and, if they were elected, are in office illegally.
Why isn't this in the mainstream news?
Not only is the National Post a mainstream Canadian paper (one of the big 3 - The Toronto Star, the Globe and Mail, and the National Post) but the National Post is the most conservative of the three.
Imagine the Star's take on this!
-I only code in BASIC.-
No real Canadian actually thinks they are legitimate.
So what percentage of the Canadian population are "real", and what percentage are fake?
I suppose I'm neither, since I'm not a Canadian. I was born about 50 miles south of the border. But, as the saying goes, some of my best friends are Canadian. I'd like to know how to figure out if they're real or fake.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Illegal methods can undermine the legitimacy of a government even if they weren't ultimately responsible for winning the election. Just ask Richard Nixon.
I strongly hope this leads to a new election (with very strict oversight). Clearly the last election was tampered with in such a way that the outcome was altered, thus a new election is needed. While I hate elections, I hate knowing a party wrongly gained power even more.
They're the Corporate-Regressive party, our own home-grown copy of American neoliberal parties like the GOP. No real Canadian actually thinks they are legitimate.
Is this a variation of the "No True Scotsman" argument?
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Unfortunately, I'm less glad the subject seems to keep being our Harper Government(tm) doing some technologically backwards (ACTA, the C-60 DRM bill, the C-30 internet spying bill). And now they've descended into outright voter fraud - having inherited the other sleazeball methods of US right-wing politics (attack ads, stupid "tough of crime" policies, etc.)
I hope a number of people go to jail for a long, long time over this. From what we can tell, this occurred in dozens of ridings including a number that Conservatives only won by less than 100 votes. The Cons have thrown one staffer under the bus (incidentally, he was caught trying to grab a box of ballots and run out of a polling station as well last year, but yet, managed to stay employed with the party) - but there is no way he could've gotten all the voter info and done this on such a wide scale.
Personally, I hope that the RCMP gets involved, pulls the logs from the robocall company, and each and every seat won by the Conservatives where cheating was involved is recalled. Yeah, it'll be expensive - but so is three more years of these Nixonian, Stasi-like unethical dirt bags in office.
Unfortunately we, in the states (and many other countries?) have also seen this sort of thing.
The Ohio elections were tainted by claims of electronic voting irregularities (don't know what became of that) and I believe several republican operatives have been convicted of similar phone hacking activities. I could go on about the hypocrisy of republican claims of voter fraud (despite ANY actual verified proof) which their solutions have the well documented effect of disenfranchising the poor and minorities. (Notice how many times those who warn you not to trust anyone are, themselves, the ones you shouldn't trust?).
Still, it's evident that the root cause is their religious self-righteousness these people feel that allows them to justify blatantly illegal acts (to only themselves fortunately, we aren't Indonesia yet!). If you honestly believed that you, or your party is doing the work of God (unlike say Obama who Rick Sanctorum says follows a "false theology"), you'd also do ANYTHING to guide you, your family and your country into the arms of God. I suspect some of their moral "leaders" don't really believe this and are just using these issues for personal gain just like they hypocritically advocate economic policies which they know will hurt the average republican voter (but pays off handsomely for them; isn't that right Rush Limbaugh?)
Maybe that's why the founding fathers put such a clear line between Church and State (please read Jefferson's exact, specific, detailed words on the subject before claiming otherwise).
Of course what's really scary are the number of evangelicals who are HOPING that the end times are here and are willing, again, to do anything to bring it about. My American Jewish friend thinks that is the only explanation for the fact that the fate of Israel completely controls American foreign policy (in the last republican debate, all the candidates indicated defending it was of the highest national priority). He cannot imagine that the Jewish lobby, significant as it is, could possibly generate that level of support.
Our only hope, if we get another Republican into office, is that they are one of the hypocritical ones and they understand that blowing up the world won't automatically send them (and their families!) to Heaven. Fortunately, all these religious "leaders" all over the world seem to understand this; notice any high ranking Ayatollahs volunteering for suicide belt duty?
Of course... not much will happen. The link below from an article about a Waterloo phone call problem, which also mentions the Guelph robocall problems listed in TFA above.
"Under the Elections Act, an election in a specific riding can be overturned if a "competent court" finds "there were irregularities, fraud or corrupt or illegal practices that affected the result of the election."
However any application to the court to contest the election must be made within 30 days of the election results being published in the Canada Gazette. A complaint can also be made the same day the applicant "knew or should have known of the occurrence of the alleged irregularity, fraud, corrupt practice or illegal practice."
Moreover, the Commissioner of Canada Elections would have to investigate and refer the matter to the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, which would in turn decide whether charges were warranted. All of which means it is premature even to suggest any election results could conceivably be overturned."
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/national/article/189607--inaccuracies-happen-elections-canada-says-after-misleading-phone-call
How do we go about ensuring some sort of repercussions happen as a result of this? It seems to me that the Conservatives are able to pull off all kinds of stuff time and time again, without any effect. Should we, as voters, start recall campaigns? Or is there some mechanism for Elections Canada to invalidate an election?
So far one staffer has resigned as the allegations have landed, in what appears to be a case of falling-on-the-sword-itis. The scale of the scandal is actually pretty massive. As TFA points out, these calls have been confirmed to appear in 18 ridings, and others are being suspected. In those 18 ridings, the calls only hit households that were waffling Liberal (as per recent polling).
What this means is that someone had to plan the calls, get the party affiliation information on these 18 ridings (at least), hire RackNine, hire a bilingual voice actor, and see everything through. The likelihood of one person pulling all this off is next to nil, and it doesn't help that the Conservative party has a (rightly deserved) reputation for bullying and playing dirty pool with the rules.
And since it's going to come up, the Conservative Party of Canada is actually the result of a merger between two separate parties: the original Progressive Conservatives, who were the centre-right answer to the Liberal's centre-left, and the Canadian Alliance-née-Reform party, the country's (relatively)-far-right party. Prime Minister Harper was previously a member of the Canadian Alliance, and it's safe to say that his view, regardless of his party's, doesn't represent the overwhelming majority of Canadians. He's not all bad, but I will throw a party he is unceremoniously dumped from the Canadian political scene.
I lived in the Minister of Defence, Peter Mackay's riding for a few years in university.
There were literally people by the polling station in the student union telling students (most would vote Green Party) the polling station had moved. There was no liberal candidate as the Green Party Leader and the Liberal leader weren't opposing each other in their ridings. (No liberal candidate in Antigonish, no green wherever the liberal's from)
Absolutely Despicable.
I'd say it simply means any and all people involved in this, and knowingly approving of it, are simply not fit to do ANY sort of governing in any democracy. This also goes for those who cover them.
Until you followed those vectors you don't even know how much of the conservative party is left (and what exist cannot govern period). If those vectors aren't followed, what does it say about Canada's claim to being a democracy?
You're right! A quick search shows that there have been cases of voter fraud as you say. (My apologies).
However, an equally quick search checking a non-partisan site (http://www.truthaboutfraud.org/, second hit on Google) indicates that the republican response, not only far outweighs these violations but would not have served to correct them. In fact, as I said before, the only discernible reason for these measures were to disenfranchise voters who were poor and or minorities. These, of course, are in the Democratic demographic.
I said nothing about which party has historically oppressed minorities (but from the subliminal guilt in your response I'd be willing to make a large bet that you're white!). I am fully aware that the Republican party is the heir to Lincoln. However Lyndon B. Johnson knew what he was talking about when he passed the civil rights act that he'd "given the South to the Republicans for a generation". He could read between the lines. Can you?
Unfortunately, judging from the KIND of attacks on Obama it looks like its taking a lot longer than a single generation.
The headline is seriously torqued, bordering on libel.
The Conservative Party of Canada hasn't be proven to have committed any crime.
The robocaller company (RackNine), is "Conservative" connected by virtue of having Conservative Party of Canada as a customer and I guess being based in the west.
The facts haven't come out yet, so we shouldn't throw stones.
It is plausible that the robo calls were done by one or two people. Canada is a bilingual country, no voice actor is required.
It seems highly unlikely that this was funded and organized by the Conservative party of Canada as an official part of their strategy.
I'd have agreed before, but not now. If you can't see the difference between Harper and any Liberal, you have to be blind.
As someone who voted for the Conservatives in the last election I have to say I find this every disturbing. Everyone expects politicians to play hardball with each other: name-calling, negative campaigning, scare-mongering, over promising. No one likes it but it is what it is.
But playing hardball with voters is crossing the line. Every Canadian citizen has a right to vote, and someone in the conservative caucus was interfering with that right then they should be put in jail.
The funny thing is while I don't agree with many of the polices of this government I can at least understand why they are doing it. But between Toews, MacKay, and now this, I think the problem with the Tories is not policy but personality. Some of them are just assholes.
"I'd have agreed before, but not now. If you can't see the difference between Harper and any Liberal, you have to be blind."
Have you ever looked at what past liberal government have done to healthcare? They've been cutting just like conservatives, the conservatives are stupid and hard right no doubt about it. But the liberals are flaming right wingers as well. Conservatives are bad no doubt about it... but the liberals haven't been doing anything for canadians for decades either. The liberals "paying down the deficits" came with a massive sell off of publically owned and built stuff. See this video for more:
http://www.ohcanadamovie.com/
The liberals only look better if you haven't been paying attention. They are both incompetent parties, conservatives are just more radical and hard right about their free market fundamentalism and wanting to screw up state finances on purpose, but paul martin and the liberals were doing the same for a long time.
American mainstream news generally doesn't give a shit about international events unless it involves celebrities, celebrities dying, normal people dying en masse, or distant places that the government claims to be warring with or policing. Canadian politics simply aren't worth column inches, unless it directly affects the States or the media's ability to follow a story.
You are very correct. And you know why that is? It's because mainstream America generally doesn't give a shit about international events unless it involves your list of exceptions (whether we should or shouldn't give a shit is another debate). The media is simply giving their customers what they want. Believe me, the day Canadian politics becomes interesting to average Americans will be the day you can't swing a dead cat in Ottawa without hitting a Fox News truck.
All forms of robocalling should be outlawed in all countries. Penalties should be: 1st offense, 1001 slaps on the wrist by a robowristslapper ... 2nd offense, 1001 punches in the face by a robofacepuncher ... 3rd offense, 1001 knifestabs by a roboknifestabber.
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
Like what happened in the states, like in Florida, where dead people just happen pop out of the grave and vote
The dead people were getting old, so they moved from Chicago to Miami, like most people in Chicago do when they get older.
Interesting factoid:
It's not commonly known, but the reason so many old people end up in Florida in the first place is that they shrink as they get older. As they shrink, their ability to see out of their cars decreases, until all they can see is the little crescent moon of sky between the dashboard and the top of their steering wheel -- this is also the primary cause of the so-called "ghost car effect", where a car appears to drive itself; the secondary cause, as any idiot knows, is Google. When this happens, all they can see is birds, and since birds are migratory, the old people end up going South as well, and end up in Florida (West of the Rocky Mountains, they end up in Arizona).
-- Terry
Had you actually understood context and history, you would have realized that Elizabeth II did not actually kill those people, and that things have actually gotten a *lot* better under her reign than they were beforehand.
Nobody is trying to deny the mistakes that were made historically. But it's utterly naive to try to pin them on the current administration, especially when the current administration has actually been trying to make things right.
Besides which, if you actually understood how our system of government works, you would realize that the last time the British crown exercised real power over Canada was in 1914, when they declared war on Germany for us. Since then, while the Queen is the titular head of state, they haven't actually refused to sign into law anything that was passed by both the house of commons and the senate, and they haven't made any unilateral decisions that affect Canada without consulting Canada's government. Perhaps the best example to support this (and strangely on topic) would be that even though Canada was still a colony in 1939, we waited a week after Britain declared war before joining in ourselves. It was well within Britain's power to declare war for us, but they allowed us to do it on our own.
In other words, it's not the Queen's fault. It's not even the crown's fault. It was the people who did it... perhaps with the blessing of the crown, but people should be held accountable for their own fuckups. The harm done to Canada's first nations peoples were done by the Hudson's Bay company, and by the duly elected government of Canada. And in case you missed it when it happened (it is one of the *only* good things Harper ever did, so I can see why you may have), the government has accepted responsibility for its part, and apologized. Now if only we could convince them to honour the treaties they signed.
"No True Scotsman," etc.
40% of us think the Conservative Party is legitimate. You don't have to like them, but it's a huge mistake to pretend their supporters aren't "Canadian" enough.
Or maybe it was done by someone who wanted to make it really certain that you'd never vote for NDP.
In all likelihood, this is either the work of a rogue agent or even a well-intentioned mistake.
This is possible, but not "all likelihood. The Harper government has already shown a deep disrespect for democracy in several ways, and through several actions. Harper himself was caught cheating at a public debate, so cheating at an election... it is very much a question of moral character.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Most of the people I know that voted for them did so only because the "liberals deserve no votes" and "Voting for the NDP or Greens? HAHAHAHAHA" rather than because they actually like or agree with the Conservatives in any way. Spite, really.
Uh, not so very long ago, actually. The residential schools were only closed in the last few decades, and there was the forced removal and adoption of children of the last residential school generation, and now the government is trying to kill off the First Nations by careful mismanagement of funds that go --- or are supposed to go --- to reserves. The laws that set up the reserve system themselves possibly genocidal, as they require many First Nations people to live in small chunks of land (the South African Townships were based on the Canadian reserve model, you know), or give up their rights and treaty entitlements. Sorry, we are still the same country we were back then, we just keep it more quiet now.
Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
Engage your brain for a minute. We're not talking about 2 or 3 ridings. The National Post (!) is currently reporting at least 14 ridings were robo-called, and the reality is that if you're going to use an illegal tactic and risk the shitstorm that is currently brewing, you don't fuck around with one or two ridings, you do the dirty in every race that's close enough for the tactic to make the difference. That's the problem. The larger, philosophical problem (that transcends politics) is this: how can you trust a government that would cheat on a massive scale to get elected, whatever colour their lawn sign?
Rule of Slashdot #0: You and people like you are not representative of the larger population. - A.C.
...with only 39% of the popular vote.
That's the beauty of not having a two-party system. The winning party almost never gets anything close to a majority. Of course this is close to what happened in the US in 1992 when Ross Perot drew enough Republican votes to allow Clinton to slip in with a whopping 42% of the popular vote.
Not so much a merger as a hostile and fraudulent takeover engineered from the top. I was a member of the Progressive Conservative party at the time and every vote taken on the topic of the so-called Alliance (an alliance of the former Reform Party with nothing whatsoever, apart from itself) the result was nearly 100% against any discussions whatsoever on any subject. They were recognized as radical right-wing kooks and rightly shunned. Whatever its shortcomings, the old PC party's members were often highly intelligent, respected democracy and despised corruption. Such a party would accommodate corporate interests but stopped short of completely selling out the country for personal gain. EX PM Mulroney's despicable government in a way set the present events in motion by ruining the PC party's reputation.
Right about now, I think you'd get about 5 million people raising their hands.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Well... the rules stipulated that the party leaders were not allowed to bring in notes. Harper snuck a crib-sheet in, and had it on his lap.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right