Canadian Music Industry Wants Subscriber Disclosure Without Court Oversight

An anonymous reader writes "The incredible demands of the Canadian music industry as it seeks a massive overhaul of Canadian copyright law continues. It is seeking increased liability for social networking sites, search engines, blogging platforms, video sites, and many other websites featuring third party contributions, plus a new iPod tax, and an extension in the term of copyright. Last week, it went further, demanding a requirement for Internet providers to disclose customer name and address information to copyright owners without court oversight as well as takedowns with no due process and unlimited statutory damages."

Comments

You used to be cool, Canada

[elrous0]

What happened to that Canada I remember, huh? The country to took in draft dodgers during Vietnam? The country that instituted universal healthcare? The country where "liberal" wasn't an insult? The country that wasn't afraid to zig when the U.S. zagged?

You've changed, man.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Stephen Harper happened.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[the_other_one]

We are now a Harptatorship.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Cabriel]

What the Labels want, and what they will get are two different things.

For example, just because I want a new car and a pony doesn't mean I'll get the pony.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[EdIII]

What happened to that Canada I remember, eh?

FTFY

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

This hasn't passed yet. We massively protested the Lawful Access act(C30) and it's on hold now. Some of their demands are exactly why C30 didn't pass yet. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't pass too. What they are asking isn't in the bill yet, it's their wish list, a very naughty wish list.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[RicoX9]

Yes, but when your representatives are approached by the Music Industry and say "I want MOAR", and the representatives say "I want a beach house", and get it, the Music Industry gets what they want.

Corporatocracy - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

What happened to that Canada I remember, huh? The country to took in draft dodgers during Vietnam? The country that instituted universal healthcare? The country where "liberal" wasn't an insult? The country that wasn't afraid to zig when the U.S. zagged?

You've changed, man.

Amen. Although, in a certain light this may be a good thing. As a United Statsian, I've observed that my own clinically insane government tends to want to distance itself from our northern cousins, maybe (albeit not bloody likely) we'll start to pare back copyright to a more reasonable level. On the other hand, we may simply up the ante and make copyright eleventy billion years. But even that may not be a bad thing, the more ridiculous copyright is, the more people will ignore it. Even right now the average person on the street doesn't see a ethical problem with consuming media that was illegally distributed. Not everything that is immoral is illegal, and not everything that is illegal is immoral.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[SuricouRaven]

That's how politics is done. If you want A, you demand A, B, C, D, E and F... knowing that your opponents will argue strongly, and not give up until they have something of a victory. So they defeat you on B, C, D, E and F, and declare themselves successful - but you get away with A, which is what you wanted all along. Everything else was just to play the game.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically, history repeating itself. The radical right snuck in.

Once upon a time, the Republican party in the US were decent and respectable. Case in point, Abe Lincoln. Then Nixon and the rest of his radical right invaded the party and made a dramatic "course correction".

In Canada, the conservative party used to be a pretty decent set of people. Boring, but trustworthy. Then Brian Mulroney came along, introduced a number of measures that generated so much great deal of dislike ("free trade" and a federal sales tax) for the party that they shrank to a tiny fraction of their former size. The radical right, calling themselves "the Reform Party", were generally regarded as a bunch of dangerous kooks and hence didn't have a chance of getting into power. However, they brokered a merger with the now pitiful Conservative party, gaining a few seats, but more importantly, getting the right to use the "Conservative Party" name. People might have been embarrassed to vote for the Reform Party, but the voting for "Conservative Party" was a family tradition. The new "Conservative Party" eventually managed a few minority governments because the center and left wing votes were split among too many other parties before eventually winning a majority government.

And yes, most of us are embarrassed by being represented by Stephen Harper as you were when George Bush Jr was in power.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Hamsterdan]

Harper gained a majority government

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Lucky75]

As a Canadian, I can confirm that the above post is an accurate depiction of what happened.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

We should make a strong counter proposal:

1) Shorten copyright to 10 years
2) Remove the levy on blank media
3) Quit whining about "profits" - you aren't "entitled" to them; you have to go earn them. Yes, this means you don't get any more laws to prop up legacy methods of distribution.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[DarwinSurvivor]

Actually, I believe it started earlier than that. Harper may have started the "privacy" stuff, but we've been bending over to the Americans since NAFTA and the softwood lumber issue started.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

I am perfectly willing to give them all of these enforcement tools.
I return I want a flat 14 year non-extendable unchangable term
for copyright!
Deal??

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[eddy the lip]

This is true, but the rate that things have accelerated at since last spring scares the living bejeezus out of me.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Beardo the Bearded]

That's up for debate.

If the Liberals or NDP are behind the robocalls and election tampering, a judicial inquiry would destroy those two leaderless parties.

For some reason, the most politically astute opportunist in Canadian history (Harper) is choosing not to call for an inquiry and letting the opponent he's sworn to destroy at any cost (The LPC) recuperate.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Beardo the Bearded]

2 years. That's enough time to get the cash from a top-40 hit, have any game be relegated to a "classic" / "greatest hits", and get a movie released onto DVD.

After that, it's all public domain.

You would still require judicial oversight and a warrant.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[hairyfeet]

Simple the USSA let the corps become so damned powerful that they spread like a cancer across the land, that's what. When you can have congressman stand there with a straight face and say there is nothing wrong with copyright terms even though most of Walt Disney's FIRST works, made when planes were made of cloth and antibiotics were just a dream, is STILL under copyright and will be long after anyone reading this is dead? Well you can just give it up chuck.

Frankly there is only one thing we can do now, and that is complete ignore the unjust laws and do everything we can to help our geek brethren to create the darknet, so that we can abandon the web to the giant corporate home shopping network they have every intention of turning it into. Mark my words they'll go after the indie labels and artists next, they'll use SLAPPs to bury them alive in lawsuits. That is because its all about CONTROL and not any kind of theft, they want the ability to control everything you see and hear and lock the world behind a paywall. With their endless copyrights I'm sure they have every combination of the 12 note western scale already copyrighted somewhere. as soon as the new album is done with my band I intend to put it everywhere i possibly can but frankly i wouldn't be surprised if we get SLAPPed, even though its just three guys with real instruments and no sampling.

And don't think boycotts or not helping yourselves will do ANY good, as they'll just use PPT math against you. They'll show the politicians a PPT that says "Our figures indicate that since we made X last year we should have made X + Y this year and we didn't! It must be those pirates!" and they'll get more power and control. Its a great "heads i win tails you lose' scam and sadly there is nothing we can do about it. so help yourselves friends, if you like an artist go see their show, that's probably the ONLY money they'll be seeing anyway.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[forkfail]

This.

The dark side is always the one controlling the fight.

The only way there will be any justice for the consumer is if it is us that name the terms of the fight, not them.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[sconeu]

Not Nixon. Reagan. Nixon would be lambasted as a RINO these days.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[girlintraining]

The country to took in draft dodgers during Vietnam?

False. They only took people before they were drafted. Once the person here received a actual draft order by the military, Canada did not help them (not officially, anyway).

The country where "liberal" wasn't an insult?

It's an insult from anyone who's conservative. It just happens to be that, unlike here in the US, politics is not a professional sponsored sport, but a serious civil matter where citizens and politicians both give measured and well-reasoned responses to questions posed to them. But then, that's true almost anywhere in the first world, excepting the US and greece.

The country that wasn't afraid to zig when the U.S. zagged?

Canada has no real military power and relies heavily on the United States for its economic stability and well-being. Until recently, the United States was happy to let its neighbor do its own thing... but like in the past, they wanted them to keep an eye out for nazis, and after that communists, and after that terrorists, and after that.... music downloaders. The US has always influenced canadian government... but it's usually been over matters of actual national security or mutually-beneficial economic arrangements. But as I'm sure people have noticed... the US is no longer distinguishing between national security and corporate profit. Canada isn't exactly thrilled with the prospect of having an idiot cousin living next door that chews on the couch ends and goes frothing at the mouth whenever it sees a gay person walk by... but you know, still family. What can ya do, eh?

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[quacking duck]

Forget Nixon, REAGAN would be lambasted as a RINO if he went into the Republican race today. Like all hero worship, the actions that don't conform to current ideology are conveniently ignored.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[wiedzmin]

That's arguable. While the failure of any democracy is in the fact that citizenry tends to vote only for leaders they're smart enough to understand, there are also other factors in them coming to power. For example, I think there are many similarities in leaders like Bush, Harper and Putin coming to power in how the votes are obtained/counted. Google, for example, "conservative robocall scandal" or "russian carousel voting"...

Canadian elections are even worse, because of the "riding" system - where Harper can receive the majority with 54% seats by riding, and proceed to pass whatever legislation he feels like, while by actual vote count conservatives only got 39% votes. How's that for a democratic process?

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[eddy the lip]

I live in rural Alberta, so I'm dead in the Conservative heartland. I'm an hours drive from Stockwell Day's old stomping ground.

Talking to people during the last election, I heard two things: oil sands and economy. A lot of people in Alberta think that anyone other than the Conservatives will kill the oil sands and cost jobs, and that the only party that's strong on the economy is the Conservatives. They could prorogue parliament, insult vets, cut any program they felt like, and those two items would still trump it.

I was actually surprised how little ideology I ran into. It's the first election I've gone out and really engaged people to find out why they were voting Tory. People here like their big trucks, and they don't want to lose their big trucks, and everything else is secondary.

I have no idea what GTAs excuse was.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[bubkus_jones]

As much as Stephen Harper has been a pain, and how much people may dislike that he was elected, the point is, every election he's lead the Conservatives, they've increased the number of seats they controlled, while Stephane Dion and Michael Ignatief couldn't even get elected in their home ridings. That's the biggest thing about Liberal supporters that irritates me, these days. They're all "Harper's evil and is ruining this country" and "No one wants Harper" and crap like that, while ignoring the fact that he's getting the votes. As far as the election system goes, the people who voice their opinion (in the only way that counts) want Harper.

They go on to complain about the ever decreasing voter turnout, but don't think about how it seems to coincide with the ever decreasing of people voting for the Liberals. They want change, an alternative to Harper, but can't offer any viable candidate. The candidates they did find (the aformentioned Dion and Ignatief) were wooden, subpar speakers (from what I saw in various interviews and debates) and seemed rather airheaded. They reminded me of characters I created in middle and high school (grades 6-12) for "creative writing" assignments in English. Harper, to me, seems to have an actual personality, like you could actually converse with him in a normal fashion if you were two people who just happen to pass each other on the street.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[gmhowell]

Then perhaps the other 61% need to protest. Loudly. Unpleasantly. Constantly.

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[alaffin]

Harper is just copying what Martin tried many, many moons ago when the Liberals were still relevant. The current bill is not that different from C-60 which was introduced in 2005 by the Liberals. That failed when government fell, as did C-61 and C-32 (which were introduced by the Conservatives). Harper's not any more evil - he's just better at it because he can lead his party to a majority...

Re:You used to be cool, Canada

[Toze]

Perhaps you have forgotten what happened to Alberta the last time a PM decided to kill Albertan oil production and what effect it had on Alberta's economy. He was called Trudeau, and his name's still a curse word in the province. Albertans are one-issue voters because that one issue is the difference between big trucks and *years of grinding poverty* for many families, and that one issue has come up before in the worst possible way.

That said, I'm disgusted beyond words with the Tories and wouldn't shed a tear if a meteor hit Parliament. /shrug

Unlimited statutory damages?

[viperidaenz]

Since there isn't an unlimited amount of money in the world, the safest option is to set it to zero.

Re:Unlimited statutory damages?

[Adriax]

But when their beancounters divide their revenue target by their average damage award to find out how many lawsuits they want to file in a year, it'll be dividing by zero! That will create a localized singularity that'll wipe their offices off the face of....

Oooooohhhhhhhhh....
Ok.

Holy Handgrenades Batman

[Wild_dog!]

Talk about the apparent obliteration of citizens rights.... I thought the US was starting to turn to the darkside, but Canada is working hard eh?

Re:Holy Handgrenades Batman

[TubeSteak]

They're just following the old principle of "ask for a mile, settle for 804 meters"

Re:Holy Handgrenades Batman

[gstoddart]

Talk about the apparent obliteration of citizens rights.... I thought the US was starting to turn to the darkside, but Canada is working hard eh?

Sadly, this is likely coming from American groups applying pressure. There seems to be a lot of lobbying by foreign organizations on this front.

The copyright lobby won't be happy until they've managed to make sure that the internet can only function according to their rules. And they want everyone else to pay for it.

Fucking parasites.

Color me shocked

[MonsterTrimble]

The CRIA is the canadian arm of the RIAA. They just reached a settlement to pay $47.5 million to songwriters which they had been screwing for decades Why is anyone surprised they would try for this?

Re:Color me shocked

[MonsterTrimble]

My bad - it's the Canadian Independent Music Association (CIMA), not the CRIA.

Re:Color me shocked

[compro01]

No, the CIMA is a different bunch.

The group formerly known as the CRIA changed their name to "Music Canada" last year.

Re:Color me shocked

[tlhIngan]

The CRIA is the canadian arm of the RIAA

Yes, it is. In fact, most of the Canadian labels LEFT CRIA! They had serious disagreements over suing those who pirated (like the RIAA labels did) and most left. What's left are the big three, and it's not really representing Canadian music at all.

As an aside, who wants to bet that this is the REAL reason why that spy bill was introduced? Not for the police, but for the music and movie industry?

Re:Color me shocked

[realityimpaired]

Just the grape koolaid the Conservatives have been drinking. Most of us think that they're a bunch of nutjobs, but unfortunately, because of the fucked up way our electoral system is set up, and the appallingly low voter turnout, they managed to get a majority government.

There's something to be said for the Australian system, where you could lose your citizenship if you don't vote.

Re:Color me shocked

[DarwinSurvivor]

It's called the Internet, and the music industry is trying the damnest to make sure the artists never hear about it.

Re:Color me shocked

[DarwinSurvivor]

And you think it would turn out any better with 90% of the voting populace being completely uninformed about the candidates? What you'd most likely end up with would be people ether handing in blank/invalid ballots (they are anonymous after all) or simply picking the one at the top of the page. The only good that could POSSIBLY come of this would be that minority parties would get more representation. But remember, for every GOOD minority party, there are also VERY, VERY BAD ones. I'm not talking "destroy the environment" bad, I'm talking white-supremest bad (no joke, take a look at some of the parties that never get seats, it's bloody frightening what some of them push).

Re:iPod tax?!

[viperidaenz]

Does it mean its legal to pirate music on iPods because the copyright lobby is getting paid for the sale of the item because it could be used for piracy? Like their blank CD tax...

Found this...

[ilsaloving]

Hey, USA! *holds up rat traps with RIAA lawyers attached*

We found these in our garage. We left some money on a shelf the other day, figuring it would be ok, but it looks like these lil guys detected the scent and chewed their way inside. Do you want them back, or should we just take them to animal control to be euthanized?

Re:Found this...

[c]

> ...or should we just take them to animal control to be euthanized?

You mean they aren't dead? Who the hell live traps lawyers?!?

Canadian law...

[wbr1]

...only slightly more obviously for sale than American law.

Canadian Music industry wants...

[the_fat_kid]

I want a pony.
doesn't mean it will happen.

Constitution?

[NoKaOi]

Does the Canadian constitution guarantee due process like the US's does? If so, does Canada ignore the constitution as readily as the US does? That said, this isn't really news, is it? They've been trying in the US, trying in the EU, etc, so of course they're gonna try in Canada. The news will be how well they succeed.

Re:Constitution?

[Mashiki]

Our charter? Yeah it does. Actually a significant portion of the charter covers prosecution and protection from the law, of law, and other such sundry things. This will get no where because it has no basis in canadian law, fair dealing takes care of it. And that they've already agreed to the levy, means that they already get money. In turn the courts will toss this right out and slap them with yet another fine.

Also first pick of virgin daughters

[19thNervousBreakdown]

Anyone found to have downloaded, listened to, performed (including whistling, humming, and spoken-word), mentioned, or remembered, whether intentionally, unintentionally, or involuntarily, any music that cannot be proven to not be covered by copyright or potentially covered by copyright in the future, or anyone in possession of any digital copies of music without a DRM spinal shunt, will be required to send their virgin daughters upon reaching age 16 for inspection to:

Royal Canadian Music Industry Headquarters
Mount Doom, Canada

Any daughters found to be desirable will be held until no longer useful. If your daughter is held, you will be responsible for a $4,000 monthly sustenance fee until such time as she is released. Anyone not in compliance with the above policies will be sued unto death or capitulation.

So whats new?

[Master Moose]

The recording industry makes unreasonable demands. . Cue 500 angry comments on Slashdot and other similar sites

Rinse, Repeat.

Is this the recording indusries plan? To beat the public and legistlators into submission with their continued and relentless demands?

To spam each country with such requests in the hope that one will be foolish enough to fall for it? I never knew that big Media emerged from Nigeria

Re:So whats new?

[Baloroth]

Who do you think gave Nigeria the idea in the first place?

The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[argee]

Apparently, draft dodgers is not the only thing we exported across our Northern Border.
We have apparently also exported limitless greed, avarice, and thirst for power.
Oh, add corruption, corporatism and entitlement to the list!

Did I forget anything?

Re:The sheer greed of these men know no bounds.

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

I'd say it was less of an export and more of a trade. After all, we got the musical stylings of William Shatner, Celine Dion, Jusin Bieber, Nickelback, and Rush. If I were Canada I wouldn't want any of them in my public domain either.

Re:iPod tax?!

[gstoddart]

Does it mean its legal to pirate music on iPods because the copyright lobby is getting paid for the sale of the item because it could be used for piracy? Like their blank CD tax...

Again, another case of them wanting to have their cake and eat it too.

They want the tax, er, levy ... and they want to make sure any form of copying is also illegal.

They're talking about making it a criminal offense to break any form of digital lock, for any reason. So, my old copy of DVD Decryptor is now a WMD. So much for fait use and some of our other rights.

Well, see the problem is

[Shivetya]

You cannot buy a politician, other people can and they do.

So they will get your pony as well.

An outlandish sense of entitlement.

[lexsird]

The music and movie industry has an outlandish sense of entitlement that I think need jammed straight up their tailpipes. I had this argument today with a friend and I told him both of these industries are failing because their time has passed, the digital age has not only toppled their tight fisted distribution systems, but it's open the doors for the masses to be creative. Hence their days, like the stage coach before cars and highways, has passed.

Neither of these archaic industries are worth sacrificing the freedoms of the Internet for. I guess we will have to put them against the wall when the times comes as well.

Re:Why all this silliness?

[0123456]

Whenever this comes up it seems like the music industry behaves like a frightened animal in every single instance. Why doesn't it try to play it cool?

What do they have to lose? Without draconian copyright laws they'll be closing their doors in a few years.

Re:I Want Free Donuts For Life

[gstoddart]

Sorry Buddy, This is Canada, that would be Tim Horton's Donuts for life!

Haven't you noticed the spread of the evil Starbucks?

It'll be biscotti and triple-foam low-fat chai latte with cinnamon sprinkles before long. :-P

Unlikely to happen, Really bad timing

[volts]

We just had a major shit-storm in Canada over a government bill (C-30) that would allow the police the right to identifying information without a warrant. The bill has been hustled off to committee for amendment as a result of public outrage. Government politician must be rolling their eyes at the timing of CIMA's demands.

"copyright owners"

[RichMan]

Somehow I don't think writing a blog entry 5 years ago will qualify me as a "copyright owner" able to fire undocumented takedown notices and request unlimited statutory damages. "copyright owner" as used here means very specific media distributors. It does not mean real creators.

Re:"copyright owners"

[SuricouRaven]

It does if you can afford to hire a skilled lawyer specialised in copyright law and pay any court fees.

sad but true

[snemiro]

Well ...these "intermediate" guys are close to extinction...they got as much as they could from artists, musicians, movies.....and now the consumer downloads the music or movie almost from the source. No more need of packaging, logistics, marketing, etc....(and also, they always " triple priced " everything between their own companies to wash some $, of course) So now they are begging for some change, because "the people is downloading music or movies". The real problem is when people in the Govt is "tempted", for example, with trips to Whistler or Mt Tremblant for all the family, in a fancy shmancy place, with a fireplace and 2 snowmobiles parked in the garage, free access to private hockey booth (10k/year) to watch a couple of matches, or any pseudo bribery method. ...On the other hand, teachers are on strike (BC) and the public health care system is starting to collapse.... Check how "fair" they play with the people who's feeding them! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_accounting Canada....I still have hope on us.

What I'd like to see...

[roc97007]

...is a regularly updated list of the music companies behind the worst of this legislation, prioritized by level of involvement or heinousness of the action, and the artists they represent. Then we can make a knowledgeable decision as consumers, whom to spend our money on. One could say "sucks to be those artists", but they don't get but a tiny fraction of music sales in a traditional contract anyway, and maybe the move will encourage more artists to go independent.

Re:iPod tax?!

[viperidaenz]

a Weapon of Mass Decryption?

Web Browser Tax For Web Developers

[Ashenkase]

plus a new iPod tax

As a web developer here in Canada I am demanding a browser tax for every Canadian that views my websites via a browser. I am losing gajjillions of dollars every year because Canadians are "View Sourcing" my HTML/CSS/JS and copying it wholesale to make their own websites.

Every Canadian must pay a tax for each browser they use to me because I am too stupid to learn how to create other streams of revenue in this new digital world. I will instead sit on my pony in Hollywood and/or Hogtown and demand that my life of entitlement persist until the end of time.

Re:Of course not.

[DarwinSurvivor]

For those that are confused it's sort of like taxing bathing suits to compensate beach owners for people sneaking onto their beaches without paying admission, except that the money actually goes to the guy that made the "beach ahead" sign. Don't worry, it doesn't make much sense to us Canadians either.

Re:I Want Free Donuts For Life

[Beardo the Bearded]

That's not true. They're day old FROZEN donuts made in a huge factory in Ontario.

That's why I get my donuts at a local bakery. A dozen and a half fresh-baked donuts for $5.25. (I get them from the OEM supplier for most of the cafes in town.)