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Amateur Rocketeer Derek Deville's Qu8k Rocket Flies to 120,000+ Feet (Video)
Derek Deville is a rocket hobbyist. A lot of us have messed with Estes Model Rockets, which start at about $13 for a pre-assembled rocket that can go 800 feet straight up. Derek's rockets are on a whole different level. His personal rocket altitude record is closer to 33 miles, which is about 150 times as high as the entry-level Estes rocket -- and takes more than 150 times as much effort to build and launch. Derek's employer, Syntheon LLC, helps him out a lot with tools and materials. Lots of other people help him, too. Derek has been mentioned on Slashdot before. This video is a chance to get to know him a bit better. And anyone who shoots rockets to the top of the Stratosphere for fun is worth knowing, right?
Car analogy not required!
and his toys are definitely not on the cheaper side.
Seriously, I really cannot imagine why this is in a rocket shot next to the other PE resin stuff. My best guess is that he was ordering from a shop and they said, "hey do you want a couple of cast lady parts *with* nipples?" Seriously, why include nipples. I bet there was a reason the lower half was turned around away from the camera.
Yes, mod this troll/offtopic, but this is a bio of his shop/life, so I thought it was relevant. Msg to fellow nerds, have a girl do a walk through inspection before camera's roll in.
Derek's rockets are on a whole different level.
To be sure. Derek's rockets are classified by US Federal Aviation Administration regulations as "Advanced, High-Power Rockets", not Model Rockets. See CFR Part 14, 101.22.
Slashdot has its own video player?
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
I have never understood using feet for measuring vertical distances.
Hivemind harvest in progress..
He works for a company making flexible endoscopy devices. Yet he's building a rocket. Should we be worried?
"If anyone needs me, I'm in the angry dome."
I have done effluent studies for rockets of this size and they produce about 70 pounds of water, about a pound or two of HCl, about 12 pounds of aluminum oxide, and about 4 pounds of carbon or so and some other mostly benign stuff per 100 pounds propellant. To put this in perspective they pollute less than a big rig running for one hour and do so in very remote areas where the material disperses to immeasurable levels immediately.
To the folks that are concerned about stratospheric pollution, these rockets burn out in the air and coast about 2/3 of the altitude or so.
Pollution from rockets is a straw man argument. There are too few flown worldwide to ever matter.
JJ
Sorry, unless you're within Apple's reality distortion field, Flash is the web standard for video players.
Would you rather they used Microsoft Silverlight?
If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits
that thinks his name sounds oddly similar to "daredevil"?
Maybe he should strap himself to one of his rockets for charity or something.
Response in subject
That would be everyone who drives for pleasure.
For conscience is the wound, and there's naught to staunch it
How are you supposed to pronounce this? queightk? qwa-eight-kuh? Are you supposed to forget there's a "t" in 8?
The US govt's seemingly quixotic investment of hundreds of billions in missile defense seems more justified in light of this. When "some guy" can do it, it can't be long until almost any nation can.
Longer term I have the same concern about nuclear weapons. What if somebody found a simple, cheap way to make highly enriched uranium? It would be a disaster.
You don't need highly enriched uranium, just enough smoke detectors.
We don't need an article every time this kid decides to launch one of his toys.
You'll need more than 200 billion detectors though. Good luck with that.
... to have videos that work through company firewalls - ie use port 80? youtube can manage it along with dozens of other sites. Why can't you??
[quote]and do so in very remote areas where the material disperses to immeasurable levels immediately[/quote]
You might as well fire it off in LA then since you won't be able to measure the change there either.
... in 30 seconds this tiny little rocket manages to output almost the same amount of pollutants as a 40 ton truck produces in an hour? And you think thats clean??
I've nothing against this guy and his hobby, it looks fun, but please, lets not pretend that rockets are the slightest bit enviromentally friendly!
What's wrong with nipples? Most shop mannequins where I live have them.
"Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
1) Yes, this is basically a purely ballistic device with passive stability. Start putting any sort of guidance or active control on it and you're changing a "high power amateur rocket" into a "guided missile" which will attract a LOT of attention from the authorities.
2) Fin design is fairly well understood in a textbook and practical sense. People have been building things with fins for millenia, and the science of aerodynamic stability is well known. It *is* tricky in some ways because the CG of the rocket is continuously changing as the fuel burns, not to mention that for a BIG rocket like this, the atmospheric density changes a lot. The hard part is keeping the fins intact under the loads.
3) a Rockoon? Been done, not entirely clear that it helps a whole lot. You buy a lot of mass and complexity to avoid the first 30km of flight, but to get into orbit takes a whole lot more energy. But there are folks experimenting with it. It's a lot cheaper to just buy more fuel and build a bigger rocket than to deal with building and flying balloons (High Altitude Ballooning has it's own share of complexities both in an Engineering and regulatory standpoint).
Actually, about 200 of them plus some lithium batteries and mantles from coleman lanterns. The americium-241 in the smoke detectors is used to convert the thorium-232 to make uranium-233 with the lithium used as a catalyst. The uranium-233 is fissionable or can be used to make a dirty device. There are a couple of other requirements that I have left out, but are commonly available from big box stores as my intention is not to have anyone actually do this. The point being, though, is that it isn't too hard.
Title: Derek's "Amateur" Rockets Fly to 120,000+ Feet
Description: Derek Deville builds amazing rockets. For fun.
[00:00] <TITLE>
The Slashdot logo with "News for nerds. Stuff that matters." scrolls and zooms along the left side of the view, superimposed over a 'small' rocket's take-off event.
[00:03] <TITLE>
Derek Deville and the Qu8ke (pronounced "Quake") Rocket
[00:03] Timothy>
Derek Deville is a serious amateur rocket maker.
Today, Derek was kind enough to allow me both into his home workshop, and here in the former Chess Hall of Fame, his current workplace, where many of the parts for Qu8ke were actually fabricated.
[00:16] <TITLE>
A picture of a workshop with a large cylindrical casing on struts with a man, Derek Deville, is in view.
[00:16] Derek>
This is a filament-wound composite casing, aluminum-wrapped with a phenolic carbon fibre-wrapped nozzle.
This is a 5,000lbs thrust hybrid motor.
We fired this one already.
These have enough fuel to burn for 34 seconds.
We've tested full duration burns.
[00:33] <TITLE>
A rocket motor test, with large high velocity exhaust plume, is shown.
[00:54] <TITLE>.
Back to the workshop, the view pans to a large cylindrical metallic object standing upright and a set of other cylindrical casings stacked up beside it.
[00:54] Derek>
This is the aluminum test version of that.
I wouldn't even dare to lean this all the way over; it's too heavy, it's still got propellant in it.
It's another 12 inch.
There's another 12 inch casing over there, and a bunch of 6 inch stuff.
The 12 inch ones are what we call the Hyperion Two, and the 6 inch is the Hyperion One.
[01:14] <TITLE>
The video pans upward along a set of racks, revealing a rocket with stabilization fins laying across the top struts of the racks.
[01:14] Derek>
You can see up there is a 16 inch full-scale nike smoke.
It doesn't have a nosecone on it, it's got a different nosecone on it, temporarily.
[01:23] <TITLE>
The view changes to a zoomed in view of the rocket being discussed.
[01:24] Derek>
But that is one I made a P-motor for and flew at an LDRS [...]
[01:28] <TITLE>
The view changes back to the view of the racks, and follows Derek around the workshop.
[01:28] Derek> ...
[...] some years ago.
If you swing around over here besides the funky mannequins
Oh, here's a piece of finstock.
This is the finstock that was used for Hyperion.
[01:39] <TITLE>
Derek is shown holding the piece of finstock.
[01:39] Derek>
This is an extrusion that we had made, so it had that profile matched to 6 inch diameter casing and then had the fin... so that when we trim this to be fin profile, and fin profile with leading and trailing edges, and drill it out.. and then this would be secured directly onto the motor casing.
[02:01] Derek>
So this is a compression-molded phenolic nozzle that forms the convergence, the throat, and the divergence.
These are glued into a XX grade [ia] phenolic liner with another compression-molded phenolic forward closure.
The injector would seal right in here and then eject, you can see the tapered cone, the way that the nitrous impinged the fuel grains.
This is a fully-consumed fuel grain.
This is about a Q motor.
[02:40] Derek>
And then 12 inch versions here.
Similar to what was done with Qu8ke, we had kevlar molded nose cones made for Hyperions back in the day.
That fits the 6 inch motor casing.
[02:55] <TITLE>
The same rocket launch from the opening title is shown.
[03:00] <TITLE>
Video following Derek around the machine shop is shown.
[03:00] Derek>
This is the Syntheon machine shop.
This is where all the Qu8ke machining parts were made.
We've got a standard lathe and a precision, smaller, lathe.
Nose cone parts were fabricated here.
Standar
His motor was a hybrid, using liquid nitrous oxide as an oxidizer and cast phenolic as a fuel grain.
The HCl and Al2O3 would be found in the exhaust of a more conventional ammonium perchlorate composite motor, not a hybrid.
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I'm not interested in knowing a guy that pollutes air and makes a lot of noise for his pointless and childish hobby. Real nerds feel free to mod me down.
Everybody knows Rocket smoke isn't pollution and road-trip food like Chilli-Cheese Fries don't make you fat!
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
At 2:37.
No lie.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
High power rockets like this are fin stabilized. The initial guidance is provided by the launch rod or rail, which keeps the rocket going straight up until it gains enough velocity that the fins provide sufficient aerodynamic correcting force. Exactly the same as the little Estes model rockets, just bigger.
The lack of spin is an indication that he got all the fins well aligned with the thrust axis of the rocket. Not surprising since he laid out the attachments using proper tools in a well-equipped machine shop.
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I bet you could measure the damage caused when it lands
1.) He mentions "Beside that stack of manequins" earlier in the video.
2.) He works for a MEDICAL SUPPLY COMPANY. I can't imagine they'd have any reason to prodouce various fascimilies of the human body. None at all come to mind...
What's the return on investment on a used rocket?
>What's the return on investment on a used rocket?
Let's see. Two guys apply for a high paying engineering job. One has a degree. The other is a world class rocket builder. Who get the job?
Two guys date the same hot girl. One has a nice house. The bother is a world class rocket builder with high paying engineering job. Who gets the girl?
I'd say its a pretty good investment. Of course, he could play safe and invest in housing instead. Because we all know that house values never go down.
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down
That's not my department," says Wernher von Braun
Apologies to Tom Lehrer.
Have gnu, will travel.
Flights like this are only allowed in areas where you have many miles of clear space for recovery.
How far the rocket drifts depends primarily on winds, which vary in speed/direction at different altitudes. There are various simulation packages (like RockSim or OpenRocket) that allow you to run flight simulations and generate landing predictions based on prevailing wind conditions, parachute size, etc.
The most important technique for reducing the recovery distance is multi-stage recovery, where the large main parachute isn't deployed until a very low altitude, specifically to reduce the distance the rocket will be carried by wind. A typical system might simply break the rocket into 2 tethered pieces at apogee (causing it to tumble or flat spin down rather than becoming a ballistic lawn dart), then pop out the main chute at 1500 feet or so. Control of the recovery system deployment is typically done with a combination of barometric pressure sensors and accelerometers, usually contained within a commercially available altimeter module, which records peak altitude and other flight data. The one I use on most of my larger rockets is here:
http://www.marsa4.com/
, but there are several manufacturers of similar devices serving this market.
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...Flash is the web standard for video players.
Oh, thank heaven -- at least there's a good reason!
what would happen if he airlifted a platform by weather balloon several miles, and then launched?
Well, he'd get more height especially with a vacuum-optimized rocket nozzle.
can a "hobbyist" achieve orbit?
No, the sixteenth law of motion passed in 1963 says that you have go pro once your rocket gets too impressive. Before that change in the laws of physics, you could though.
It's designed so that the center of aerodynamic forces is aft of the center of mass, which keep the rocket motor end of the rocket behind the nose end. the Greater the distance aft the center of aerodynamics is to the center of mass, the more inherent stability the vehicle will have. You'll notice that the launcher has rails to keep the rocket straight until it has enough velocity for the aerodynamics forces to stabilize the vehicle. The missile I worked on had a zero-length launcher, that bird left fast!
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
when he will get the visit from humorless dicks in dark suits wearing mirrored sunglasses, asking about his finances and political leanings - assuming he hasn't already.
What if it lands in Compton?
Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
You'll need more than 200 billion detectors though. Good luck with that.
Or hire a lot of illegal immigrants to take apart detectors. Many drug dealers did this with Sudafed tablets back when you can buy the pills without papers. They bought them by the boxes, hired illegals for low wages to tediously pop the tablets out of the packages and crush them into a container. A PBS show about meth (or some other illegal drug) interviewed various people about this. One meth house in AZ (I think) is where they hired some illegals and gave them $6/hr to "process" sudafed tablets, illegals didn't know what specially it was for but it was pretty good wages without toiling in the hot sun. One of these guys after awhile advocated they should ask for $9/hr, but the others said for him to not create problems with the gringos. Later the house was raided by DEA but none of the dealers there and the illegals were of little value for tracking down the dealers than hired them. When the illegals found out dealers were clearing millions in profit, "Damn! I told you we should have ask for $9/hr!"
mfwright@batnet.com
I bet Chuck Norris could drive a car into the stratosphere.
Here ya go.
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
The thing is, if this was some high school dropout building drag racers or racing motorbikes, no one here would be that impressed.
But because it's "rocket science" everyone is drooling.
Is there anything he does that actually helps us learn how to make better rockets? If not, it is indeed just a noisy hobby.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Why is this a troll? Flash is the web standard for video players, in the same way that Windows is the most widely used OS. It doesn't mean you necessarily approve of either
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Actually, about 200 of them plus some lithium batteries and mantles from coleman lanterns. The americium-241 in the smoke detectors is used to convert the thorium-232 to make uranium-233 with the lithium used as a catalyst. The uranium-233 is fissionable or can be used to make a dirty device. There are a couple of other requirements that I have left out, but are commonly available from big box stores as my intention is not to have anyone actually do this. The point being, though, is that it isn't too hard.
If it's not that hard, how come Al Qaeda (or whoever) haven't done it yet?
There are only really three possibilities:
1. Terrorists are squeamish about using nukes;
2. The security services have managed to intercept and prevent every attempt to use one, or
3. You're wildly exaggerating the ease of construction.
Number 3. seems the likeliest of these to me.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Careful! Wernher von B is a bit of a hero around slashdot, seeing as he's (a) a rocket scientist and (b) a fucking Nazi.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Wouldn't it be easier just to fit a small nuclear bomb to the rocket and remote detonate it high in the atmosphere somewhere? That way you'd only get tiny particles hitting the ground, with minimal chance of casualties.
Plus, if any super villain tried to steal your rocket in space a la Moonraker, you could give them a nasty surprise.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
I know it's almost impossible to go full retard on slashdot and post everything in CAPITALS, but you did the next best thing. Well done.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
There are only really three possibilities:
1. Terrorists are squeamish about using nukes;
2. The security services have managed to intercept and prevent every attempt to use one, or
3. You're wildly exaggerating the ease of construction.
Number 3. seems the likeliest of these to me.
Yeah, I'm wildly exagerating. Just tell that to the boy scout in Michigan who was arrested for building a breeder reactor doing exactly what I described.
If you had paid attention you will know that his reactor didn't work. An Am-241 alpha source with an Al/Be target is much too feeble of a neutron source to start a breeder. You'll need a strong neutron emitter like Cf-252. But you won't find that in a hardware store. My estimate of 200 billion detectors is based on the critical mass of Am-241/Np-237.
I think the flaw was in his neutron gun, very inefficient. We basically did this in college in the 1980s in my nuclear engineering class. We didn't use smoke detectors, but did use 100mcg of Am-241. However, our neutron gun was much more significant as were the sources of other ingredients. We were not actually attempting to start a breeder, but instead were investigating different neutron gun designs.
Regardless, even if the kid wasn't successful building his reactor, he produced enough radioactive waste (39 55gal barrels of it) that he could have easily made a dirty bomb.
Hello, I'm Sandra, and I'm very interested to know how does the recovery system specifically works in Qu8K. I'm a student and I actually have to write a work about it and it has been very difficult to find specific information. I know about the pneumatic cylinder, but I don't know what triggers its motion, and would be grateful if you could help me. I thank you in advance.
http://ddeville.com/derek/Qu8k.html
He appears to be using a pneumatic cylinder which is actuated by a small charge of black powder, rather than compressed air.
Black powder is very commonly used in high power rocketry for the deployment of recovery systems. The black powder is set off by means of an electric match or similar electric igniter, fired by the altimeter or flight computer.
The typical HPR hobby rocket would contain 2 independent charges, one which is fired at apogee, and another to deploy the main chute at a lower altitude.
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