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Valve Switching Team Fortress 2 To Free-To-Play Increased Revenue Twelvefold

An anonymous reader writes "We've frequently discussed the growing trend among video game publishers to adopt a business model in which downloading and playing the game is free, but part of the gameplay is supported by microtransactions. There have been a number of success stories, such as Dungeons & Dragons Online and Lord of the Rings Online. During a talk at the Game Developers Conference this week, Valve's Joe Ludwig officially added Team Fortress 2 to that list, revealing that the game has seen a 12-fold increase in revenue since the switch. He said, 'The trouble is, when you're a AAA box game, the only people who can earn you new revenue are the people who haven't bought your game. This drives you to build new content to attract new people. There's a fundamental tension between building the game to satisfy existing players and attract new players.' He also explained how they tried to do right by their existing playerbase: 'We dealt with the pay-to-win concern in a few ways. The first was to make items involve tradeoffs, so there's no clear winner between two items. But by far the biggest thing we did to change this perception was to make all the items that change the game free. You can get them from item drops, or from the crafting system. It might be a little easier to buy them in the store, but you can get them without paying.'"

54 of 196 comments (clear)

  1. Hats off to Valve by decipher_saint · · Score: 5, Funny

    Congratulations guys ;-)

    --
    crazy dynamite monkey
    1. Re:Hats off to Valve by baenpb · · Score: 2

      I see what you did there ;)

  2. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I only paid like $30 for the Orange Box when it came out. Valve has given me above and beyond my money's worth over the past 4+ years so I have no problem buying a key every so often to pay them back.

  3. We have a winner by LostCluster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Call it freemium, call it widget frosting, call it whatever you want... giving the core item away and selling the addons has always worked in the gaming industry and this is just another victory for the concept.

    1. Re:We have a winner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      giving the core item away and selling the addons has always worked

      FTFY

      See razors & blades as prior art.

    2. Re:We have a winner by r1348 · · Score: 2

      Or HP printers and inks...

    3. Re:We have a winner by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      There is more to free to play, there is a big difference between player versus enemy and player vs player. In the player versus enemy, paying cash makes the game quicker and easier (those with less time on hand are more likely to spend than those with more time available to play).

      Player versus player is a whole different. Underlying that game is the ability of publisher agents to enter the game fully kitted out to kick the arses of players not spending enough. Player versus player, the inevitable winners are those willing to spend the most hard cash.

      So the flops in free to play are trending as the player versus player rather than player versus enemy. Everyone learnt from childhood spoilt brats make crappy play mates and free to play, player versus player favours spoilt brats, with the expected turn off for the majority of players.

      Free to play requires the ability to avoid player versus player interaction in order to maintain a larger player base.

      Lord of the Rings game play is boosted by the sales of expansion packs, revenue for them and game improvements for the players. Basically bringing infinite upgrades of operating systems and commercial software to the gaming environment. Works well for LOTRO, an enjoyable MMO without the need for a monthly subscription fee (sort of, more like a six monthly expansion pack fee, still a lot of game play per dollar).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    4. Re:We have a winner by Push+Latency · · Score: 2

      As a person who has played LOTRO since beta, and has lead a large kinship the whole time, I have witnessed all of the best people leave, now including myself. The departures have been 100% due to the changes that came with the move to free-to-play. It's actually quite relieving, because I never had an intention to lead a large MMO guild, but the game was so good, was so convincing and immersive, that it didn't feel like I was playing an MMO, rather, it felt like I was engaging Tolkien's world. It definitely doesn't feel like that anymore!

    5. Re:We have a winner by FluffyBob · · Score: 2

      Well the subject of the article, TF2 is a huge counter example to your post. It is entirely pvp and there is really no advantage against f2p players. If you put your time into the game you will get all the items needed to be competitive. A cool hat or strange weapon does not make you any tougher. All of my preferred weapons are from achievements, drops or crafting. You can pay 20 buck for a package of starter weapons, but play for a couple weeks and you will have what you need anyway. Just try to resist opening that mysterious crate for a measly couple of bucks though...

    6. Re:We have a winner by Slider451 · · Score: 2

      You don't list anything specific that has changed for the negative and I'm not going to speculate for you. Maybe for you the game, and the stress of running a kinship, has run its course.

      I joined Sept 2010 when the game went F2P and am still enjoying myself. The Tolkien lore is rich and the epic story very fulfilling. Without F2P I never would have tried LOTRO.

      --
      Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
  4. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by Truekaiser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i know this is trying to be a troll but he is correct. the fremium model prey's on the inability of many people to not only add the micro transactions together. but also disrupts how people gauge the 'value' of the product by infusing emotional attachments into the mix.

  5. Farmville by MrEricSir · · Score: 2

    I was going to disagree with you, but then I realized Farmfille is the most popular "freemium" game ever and I was forced to change my mind.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  6. Pay to win by Omnifarious · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think keeping 'Pay to win' concerns at the forefront is the key. Nothing turns me off of a game faster than that. At least, when the game is one where I'm competing against other people online. When it's a single-player game, the idea that you have to pay in order to win really irritates me, but if it merely takes a fair amount more skill to win if you don't pay, then it's sort of OK.

    1. Re:Pay to win by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Informative

      When I heard TF2 is going f2p I was fearing a p2w system, akin to many other f2p games where you are essentially the "product" for those that dump money on the makers because your tools, your weapons, your equipment just cannot hold a candle to theirs and you're, essentially, akin to some rather smart bot on easy difficulty level.

      Valve solved the problem fairly well. As far as I can tell, you can have all the items for free that someone who spends money can have (well, aside of some vanity items without any effect in game). What happened is that you can either dump money on them to get the weapon you want NOW or you wait for the random system to drop one on you.

      Also, the weapons in TF2 are not like in most other games where you don't touch your "newbie" gun anymore once you got something better. The fun part is that you don't get more powerful with more choice, you just get more versatility and more choice for certain situations. Pretty much every item that gives you some bonus in one area has some rather nasty drawback. A gun that slows the enemy does less damage, a rocket with more direct damage does less splash damage, a sniper gun that does more damage uses tracer rounds and gives away your position... you get the idea.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Pay to win by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 2

      What happened is that you can either dump money on them to get the weapon you want NOW or you wait for the random system to drop one on you.

      At least half of the freemium games out there do this, and it's only marginally better if at all.

      You can grind for a weapon, and eventually, after spending time slogging away with weak weapons, you'll reach the point where you've got equipment that you want for the class you like (hopefully). Or you can spend the money now, and immediately have the equipment you want.

      Some of the weapons in TF2 certainly seem better than their free companions, and even just granting extra versatility in a game is still granting a distinct advantage to one player over another.

      That is exactly the definition of a "pay 2 win" game. It might not be quite as horrifyingly imbalanced as some other games, but it's still tilted towards the paying players. I am mildly annoyed that I paid money for this when it was standalone and all I got was a stupid hat.

  7. The key to all this... by deciduousness · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the key to all of this for me, and why I like it over other similar models, is this statement:

    "You can get them from item drops, or from the crafting system. It might be a little easier to buy them in the store, but you can get them without paying."

    If you are lazy, you can pay. If you don't want to pay, you can work a little for it. Sounds good to me!

    1. Re:The key to all this... by AvitarX · · Score: 2

      I like the way puzzle pirates did it.

      Everything came from drops, and you needed gold to use certain things (kind of like a luxury tax). You could buy gold with in-game money/items, or real life money. The game economy itself remained the same as in the monthly subscription version though. No amount of money created game items from scratch (with the exception of gold). The general currency was pieces of eight.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    2. Re:The key to all this... by brainzach · · Score: 4, Informative

      Paying doesn't mean you are lazy.

      Time is money. Maybe someone with a busy life doesn't want to spend 10 hours getting a $5 dollar item for free when they make $60 an hour in the real world.

    3. Re:The key to all this... by DreadPiratePizz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with this line of thought is that you've ALREADY decided to use your time for leisure and not for making money. There's no opportunity cost there; by playing the game you've already committed yourself to not making money. So you could either not make money and not have to pay, or you could not make money and have to pay. Which sounds better?

    4. Re:The key to all this... by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, it means that if you don't have lots of free time, or prefer not to spend an inordinate amount of time in the game, you can still have a complete, fulfilling experience, leaving some of the drudgery time wasters behind. I means you can do more of the fun stuff with the time you spend.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    5. Re:The key to all this... by vux984 · · Score: 2

      If you are lazy, you can pay. If you don't want to pay, you can work a little for it. Sounds good to me!

      Calling people who buy items "lazy" is all well and good.. but:

      Its hard for someone smart not to be sitting there waiting for that rare to random spawn to calculate the number of hours they are spending trying to get X divided over the cost of X in some marketplace... at which point you realize that if you wandered around the city collecting cans you'd have had that item 3 months ago.

      As soon as a game presents me with a choice like this it becomes very difficult for me to want to play the game at all.

      When I work out that I can legitimately (ie not via cheating, or using some sort of hack/crack/bot/whatever... but using an officially supported and apporved method to) earn the in game "rewards" orders of magnitudes faster by NOT PLAYING the game -- i find that thoroughly disillusioning.

      Now if getting item X is actually fun enough to motivate me to play even if I wasn't going to get item X that might be different. But few games are. The vast majority of games reward "grinding" -- the worst kind of least fun repetition to maximize ones odds of getting items you want. Whether you are stuck playing the same particular level/dungeon/map/scenario endlessly...

      Or perhaps its just truly random, and then nothing you do affects whether you get it or not, and then finally receiving the "reward" is utterly pointless -- the guy next you got his the first guy he killed... the guy next to him will die of old age before fate favors him... talk about sucking the point out of it.

  8. Re:what about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Those who bought the games all won a very awesome, useless bagde!!

  9. The RIAA/MPAA shou take notice! by s.petry · · Score: 2

    We already knew that Linux can be a profit area for business, even though it's "Free". Now we see that same thing working in Gaming.

    It requires some new methodology, and business modelling of course. But it works!

    I'm always glad to see success stories. This a great example. Steam in my opinion has done a great job creating a platform. TF2 plugging in and taking advantage, very smart!

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  10. business school 101 by slew · · Score: 5, Informative

    A common truism you learn in business school is that it's usually easier (and less costly) to sell more to your existing customer than to try to get new customers...

    If every new dollar you earn is less costly, you have more operating margin which you can then use to feed back into your business and make it grow faster. Thus cross-selling and up-selling techniques are really just no brainers that nearly everyone uses. Works in almost any business (including the gaming industry).

  11. Re:what about by AvitarX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You got to play the game a lot earlier.

    --
    Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  12. Re:what about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Also the ability to play the game up to 4 years prior to the f2p people. And the ability to actually trade items and get vanity stuff (if thats your thing)

  13. Re:what about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah! All we got was four years of the best multilayer game on the planet! And what was that bullshit with it being bundled with Portal and Half Life 2: Episode 2? Who has even heard of those games!? Now people can get it for free? I'd have just waited if I'd known! RIP OFF RIP OFF RIP OFF! And what's with people discounting older games? They should have to refund the difference to me! It's not fair!!

  14. But it must be seen in context. by Qwertie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Switching to "freemium" now may have increased revenue now. That doesn't necessarily mean it would have been a good idea to release as freemium in the first place. Valve had 4 years to convince people to pay up-front for TF2, and they succeeded quite well! But after four years, you've just about exhausted the supply of people that are willing to pay up-front. Switching to freemium not only brings in new customers, it also convinces some of the original buyers to pay again for in-game items. Now that's smart.

    IMO they struck the right balance, too: TF2 is still fun without paying anything (or in my case, any more than I paid for the Orange Box.) If you had to "pay to win", people might be pretty pissed off.

  15. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    prey's on the inability of many people to not only add the micro transactions together. but also disrupts how people gauge the 'value' of the product by infusing emotional attachments into the mix.

    Screwing with our brain wiring is sort of how video games (or board games, for that matter) get us to buy them in the first place. There's nothing rational about buying a video game for $50 and then wasting tons of time playing it - it's a purely emotional experience. If running around smashing ogres is what gets your endorphins going, great. If buying Farmville charms does it, who is to say that emotional response is any worse?

    Now's when people will start in with this-or-that study that shows that video games sharpen this-or-that skill, as if that's why they bought the game!

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  16. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by oddjob1244 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Valve's freemium model is different. The paid content doesn't give you a huge advantage over the free content. Most of the addons are cosmetic and the weapons are balanced or worse than the stock weapons. You're still a competitive player with the free version of TF2, and if you play for a reasonable amount of time the paid content drops randomly anyway. Even if you wanted to sink a bunch of cash into TF2 to be better than everyone else, you can't. I mean, even the paid items can't be crafted.

  17. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by Truekaiser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    no the humble indie bundles are 'pay what you want' the fremium model is called fremium because it's nicer then the actual description. 'pay to win'. the fremium model is designed to give those who don't pay a lesser experience then those who willingly ignore simple addition and pay for a weapon here(10 dollars), a perk there (12 dollars), double experience(10 dollars), unlocking classes(15 dollars), etc.

    any way, anyone who DOES pay only ONE cent on a 'pay what you want' IS ripping them off. since they are giving you full, unhindered my any sort of these rip off schemes, games. on the good faith you give them a good amount of money. I pay more then the average for linux which in it's self almost always almost double what window's users pay.

  18. Re:Where is EP3 / HL3 by VGPowerlord · · Score: 2

    Please people stop buying stupid hats and stuff for TF2. Every single time you dump money on that game it's less incentive for valve to spend money on other, one time cash cow, games like HL3 or HL2:EP3.
    Why should they spend massive resources making a game people only buy once when they can get idiots spending real money on digital hats from now until valve runs out of pixels.

    Most (all?) new items these days are community submitted, and the majority of those are cosmetic items. In other words, it's easy money for Valve because they don't even do most of the work.

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  19. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by marnues · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So different people value different items in game differently, ergo the system is broken? Certainly there's a psychological factor involved with many small purchases vs 1 large purchase, but suggesting that people need to value a game purchase the same as many micro-transactions is ludicrous. Sounds like old-man syndrome.

  20. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by marnues · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If a game is pay to win, it'll eventually lose it's customer base. You may have noticed that TF2 is explicitly trying not to be pay-to-win. I'm not a user, so I don't know, but at least they are trying. And eventually a functioning model where game designers are encouraged to improve the game while gamers can't just "pay to win" will develop.

  21. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by vux984 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The paid content doesn't give you a huge advantage over the free content.

    So it gives you a minor advantage over the free content?

    Is that actually "good" or just "better than worst case"?

    My problem with freemium even when done "right" or whatever you want to call it is still is unacceptable to me at a fundamental level:

    I -do- not want to be confronted with real life purchasing decisions every few minutes while playing games. Period. I don't want to be dropped into a "store" everytime I die. I don't want to be prompted to buy something everytime I start up, and every time I quit, and every time a new level loads.

    I don't want to asked to evaluate whether or not some two dozen different micro-items is worth $X to me.

    I don't want any of it. I don't want to subject my kids to it either.

    That saod, I don't mind expansion packs. 20 new tracks and 5 new cars for $10 bucks or whatever is perfectly fine. But don't advertise it in the game so that I have to explicitly decline buying it every time I play... and don't break it up into micro-transactions... $1 per track, 1$ per car... I don't want to excert the mental process of deciding is this car worth a buck, is this car worth a buck, is this car worth a buck to me... I just don't.

    And don't have me competing with people in the expansion pack cars if they are anything more than just skins.

    Remember even "Situationally better" is still better if you get any control over the situation, which of course, unless you are an idiot... you always do.

  22. Upgrade weapons are not necessarily better by VGPowerlord · · Score: 4, Informative

    One of the major themes in alternate weapon in TF2 that they aren't necessarily better than the weapons they replace.

    There are two weapons in the entire game that have clear upgrades. Those are the Medic's Bonesaw and the Soldier's Shovel.

    I'll use the Soldier's Rocket Launchers as an example of weapons that are sidegrades. The rocket launchers are:

    Rocket Launcher - 4 Rockets per clip. 20 rockets total. Rockets shoot slowly. Rockets have a good amount of splash area.

    Direct Hit - 4 Rockets per clip. 20 rockets total. Rockets shoot quickly. Rockets do 20% higher damage. Rockets mini-crit airborne enemies. Rockets have 70% smaller splash area.

    Black Box - 3 Rockets per clip. 20 rockets total, rockets shoot slowly. Rrockets have a good amount of splash area. Player gains 15 health per person hit.

    The Liberty Launcher - 3 Rockets per clip. 20 rockets total. Rockets shoot quickly. Rockets have a good amount of splash area.

    The Original - Identical to Rocket Launcher, but fires from the center instead of from the right.

    Cow Mangler 5000 - 5 Rockets per clip. Unlimited ammo. Slower reload time. Rockets shoot slowly. Rockets have a good amount of splash area. Can not do critical hits. When your clip is full, right-click to shoot a charge shot (takes 3 seconds to fire, during which you move at 1/4 speed) which does mini-crits and sets enemies in its splash range on fire... but uses the entire clip of 5 rockets. All shots do 80% less damage versus buildings, but a charged shot disables buildings for 4 seconds.

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    1. Re:Upgrade weapons are not necessarily better by Kdansky · · Score: 2

      Let me add to this my extensive 400 hours of gameplay experience: The basic rocket launcher is the best weapon. Direct Hit: -70% splash means your splash is nearly irrelevant. This weapon is good against heavies and snipers, and bad against everyone else. Black Box: 15 life only makes a difference once in ten fights. Only having three shots matters every few seconds. Liberty Launcher: Speed difference is neat, but unnecessary most of the time. Three rockets instead of four is significant. Original: You can't shoot around left corners. You still can't shoot around right corners. The smoke obscures your own view. You can't rocket jump as far (though it's easier for a beginner). It's just plain worse. Cow Mangler: I don't have this one. This holds true for 99% of all weapons: The basic gear is actually the most competitive in nearly all cases. And when it is not, you need to spend a hundred hours to actually learn the difference anyway, at which point you have the things you need.

  23. All fine and dandy, except that it's incorrect by F69631 · · Score: 2

    fremium model prey's on the inability of many people to not only add the micro transactions together

    #idonthavefactstobackthisup, but when fremium games generate more profit, it's not because the same people end up paying more. It's because more people end up paying a bit. So, instead of me having to make large-ish (let's say 50 euros) investment on a game and hope that it's good, I can get a game for free or for a nominal fee (a couple of euros), play a while and if I like the game, occasionally buy something nice.

    There are many advantages here: I get to personalize my games (if I visit a friend with same games that I have and try some of them out, I'll have a whole another experience!), I don't ever waste money on stuff I end up not liking, the publisher gets constant feedback on what kind of content the gamers are into and can provide new stuff based on that and most importantly... the very low cost of initial investment is wonderful. I have a large-ish group of friends and friend-of-friends that like to play together and not nearly everyone in the group is in a relatively well-paying job like the one I have. Yet, because of the this model, we can get into a new game every other week or so.

    So... yeah. I really love the microtransaction model though I'm pretty confident that I can perform simple addition.

    1. Re:All fine and dandy, except that it's incorrect by AngryDeuce · · Score: 2

      So... yeah. I really love the microtransaction model though I'm pretty confident that I can perform simple addition.

      Same here. My first real exposure to it was with Lord of the Rings: Online went F2P, and after playing P2P MMO's for many years, it was nice not to have to deal with the monthly fees and all that shit. Plus, unlike many F2P games, you can grind out the currency (Turbine Points), rather than having to purchase them. It's not as fast or convenient as plugging in a credit card and buying them, but it's really not that bad.

      I guess the whole pay to win thing never bothered me, particularly with MMO's. I'm not competitive by nature, and in any MMO, it's damn hard to compete with the no-lifers that inevitably play 24/7 whether it's F2P or P2P, so that never mattered to me anyway. I don't play the game to impress people, I play to have fun, and if some guy has fun buying his way to the top, c'est la vie.

      Granted, LotR:O didn't have PvP in the traditional sense, so I suppose constantly getting ganked by someone that paid to win would irritate me...but my non-competitive nature doesn't really lend itself to holding a grudge or getting very angry about stuff like that.

  24. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by sexconker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If a game is pay to win, it'll eventually lose it's customer base. You may have noticed that TF2 is explicitly trying not to be pay-to-win. I'm not a user, so I don't know, but at least they are trying. And eventually a functioning model where game designers are encouraged to improve the game while gamers can't just "pay to win" will develop.

    TF2 is absolutely pay to win.
    The goal of the game is to collect all the hats and useless crap.

    I hop on TF2 every once in a while only to find that no one is actually playing TF2. Control points? Intelligence briefcase? The cart? Nope. No one gives a shit about those things. They only care about farming shit and running around like retards.

  25. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by Hadlock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You're forgetting the fact that without a player base, a game dies. Particularly multiplayer, which is all that TF2 is. By introducing it as F2P, Valve probably quadrupled the player base overnight. Not only that, but they introduced them in to a game with hundreds of bugfixes, content updates and major graphical overhauls. All of which had already been paid for. Even while most of those freepers will never buy anything in the store, they provide the much needed player base for those who are spending money in game to play with. They're mainly playing on third party servers, so by opening up the game to anyone, they've increased the game's perceived value at no additional cost to valve or the end user, while allowing the game's popularity to flourish.

    --
    moox. for a new generation.
  26. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    There is no paid content in tf2 that can't be obtained through other means, either by trading, crafting, or simply having the item "drop" like an mmo (it just appears between lives while playing, you usually get 10 a week or so if you play a lot). The most expensive content is vanity items, hats or other facial accessories, but those can be obtained via the above methods as well. Several of the earlier ones are available through achievements as well. Most of the strongest items for all classes are the original weapons (or ones available via achievements) - new stuff tend to be sidegrades or gimmicks (but still relatively easy to obtain if you are actually interested in them).

  27. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by VGPowerlord · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The paid content doesn't give you a huge advantage over the free content.

    So it gives you a minor advantage over the free content?

    We're talking about TF2 still, right?

    The thing about "paid content" in TF2 is that you can get any of the non-cosmetic items over time, as you get 6-8 random weapons per week. There are also 27 weapons (3 per class) that can be unlocked through achievements. Weapons can also be crafted, but I'll be honest: It's better to wait for a random drop, because 6-8 items a week makes it take a long time to craft even one weapon, let alone multiple.

    The major problem with f2p accounts is that there are restrictions on them until you buy your first item from the store. In USD, the cheapest item is $0.49, but Valve has a minimum of $5 for adding funds to your Steam wallet... however, you can use the remaining $4.51 towards anything on Steam, including games.

    My problem with freemium even when done "right" or whatever you want to call it is still is unacceptable to me at a fundamental level:

    I -do- not want to be confronted with real life purchasing decisions every few minutes while playing games. Period. I don't want to be dropped into a "store" everytime I die. I don't want to be prompted to buy something everytime I start up, and every time I quit, and every time a new level loads.

    I've never had a TF2 free account, but from my understanding is that it bugs you once when you start the game with one of the game's characters having a text bubble mentioning it on the main menu. This is the only time the store is mentioned. other than having a button on the main menu for it. This text doesn't appear if you've ever bought anything from the store or bought TF2 itself from a store (or bought the Orange Box from a store or through Steam).

    That saod, I don't mind expansion packs. 20 new tracks and 5 new cars for $10 bucks or whatever is perfectly fine. But don't advertise it in the game so that I have to explicitly decline buying it every time I play... and don't break it up into micro-transactions... $1 per track, 1$ per car... I don't want to excert the mental process of deciding is this car worth a buck, is this car worth a buck, is this car worth a buck to me... I just don't.

    When TF2 has new weaponry come out, they sell them as sets along with related cosmetic items, if you really want to pay for them. The catch is that they're ridiculously overpriced... and usually they're added to the drop system at the same time they come out. So, unless you really want the cosmetic items, there's little point in buying them.

    And don't have me competing with people in the expansion pack cars if they are anything more than just skins.

    Remember even "Situationally better" is still better if you get any control over the situation, which of course, unless you are an idiot... you always do.

    I believe I've already addressed this point.

    But more to the point, the way items are balanced in TF2, a lot of the times they're different rather than strictly better. One of the more controversial items from the Christmas 2011 update was the Spy-cicle.

    The Spy-cicle is a melee weapon for the Spy... all Spy melee weapons do instant-kill backstabs. Note: Spies can disguise as enemy players, which becomes important in the description below.

    The Spy-cicle prevents the usual death screams from players, but instead makes a freezing sound and leaves an ice statue behind instead of a corpse. It can also be used to prevent fire damage (and makes the extinguishing sound when this happens) for 2 seconds at the expense of the Spy losing the Spy-cicle for 15 seconds.

    The thing is that its upsides and downsides are tied together. Sure, I can prevent fire at the expense of being able to instant-kill b

    --
    GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
  28. Everquest (classic) is about to go Free to Play. by Kaenneth · · Score: 3, Informative

    Since the subject came up, I'm going to mention that EverQuest is going to launch their Free-to-Play program in about a week. (the original, EQ2 has been F2P for a while now) info is at http://www.everquest.com/free/ (also a new fresh server starting.)

    I don't work for Sony, I just like (and play) EQ. In fact I work for a competitor.

    I'm not a fan of the F2P model, I plan to keep my regular sub; but an MMO needs fresh blood to stay healthy, and I'm hoping this will boost the userbase.

  29. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by LesFerg · · Score: 2

    Maybe you are choosing the wrong server. Some server descriptions include words like "achievements server" or "trading server". I don't use them expecting hard out action, I choose other servers. There is most certainly a lot of full on action going on, and play to win usually means support your team to make it win.

    --
    If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
  30. Re:what about by FunPika · · Score: 3, Funny

    That makes me wonder what the reaction of the last person who ever bought TF2 on Steam was when it went F2P....probably something like "WHAT THE FUCK? A $20 HAT?".

    --
    After years of not using a signature, I am going to make one to say the following: Fuck Beta
  31. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by Kreigaffe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah.

    Hats don't help you win.

    What you describe isn't a competitive game but a social one -- collecting meaningless bits of fluff that look neat but serve no purpose.

    Pay to win implies that forking over money gives you an advantage over players who haven't. Hats confer no such advantage. You just mad.. for some reason I can't even begin to understand.

    --
    ... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about. :|
  32. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by NemosomeN · · Score: 5, Informative

    I play TF2 quite a bit. Nothing that can actually give you an advantage is buy-only. This includes someone else buying something, and you trading for it. You can get every game-changing item without paying a cent. I bought the game, so I have never had a free-only account, but it's my understanding that you need to have a premium account to trade, which means you have to spend at least 50 cents on a item. Once you've done that, however, you can basically get any game-changing item you want. Things randomly drop while you are playing, but there are 9 classes. Trade any two weapons, and you can get any one weapon you want, generally. It is VERY easy to become competitively equipped with one class, and only takes a month or so of playing to become competitively equipped for all classes you would likely play regularly. TF2 is without a doubt the model of Free-to-Play gaming, from a business perspective. I have bought a few keys, but the impact has been nothing but cosmetic.

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    I hate grammar Nazi's.
  33. Re:what about by Ihmhi · · Score: 2

    Yeah! All we got was four years of the best multilayer game on the planet!

    That's weird, I never received my free copy of Starsiege: TRIBES when I bought the Orange Box.

  34. Re:You don't have a game if you're playing alone. by Suddenly_Dead · · Score: 2

    That's why I'm only "mildly" annoyed; that and how these days I only tend to play the game when a friend pulls me into it anyways. Mild like the "spicy" food the local Asian restaurants serve white people.

  35. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 2

    WTF? just use the stock weapons. The new weapons are just more interesting to play with. hacking a guys head off with a sword for example...cool and intimidating....but you can only run in a straight line so all the victim needs to do is step to the left or right and shoot you.

  36. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by Miseph · · Score: 2

    You seem to be implying that art is rational and objective. Art is neither, it is emotional. Video games most certainly ARE art, and just as purchasing art is most certainly NOT a rational activity, neither is purchasing video games. That doesn't make spending money on either foolish or bad, rationality is not a measure of morality or other subjective values.

    Most people, whatever they believe, are hugely in favor of engaging in some degree of irrationality. Anything you do that does not directly improve your material condition on strictly survival and evolutionary measures is, ultimately, irrational... which ironically includes a dogged commitment to doing only those things which are most obviously rational, as doing so would almost certainly lead to social isolation and associated difficulty with both survival and reproduction.

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    Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
  37. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by Canazza · · Score: 2

    There are two free-to-play models that I've seen
    Pay to Win and
    Pay for Time

    Pay to Win involves payment-only items that give a distinct advantage over other players. Games like APB contain Pay-To-Win models. Sure, these Pay-to-win items in the hands of an idiot will not confer any advantage over a skilled player with base weapons, but pay-for-exclusive weapons with unique properties (in the case of APB, silencers) scream Pay-to-win. I'm told there are some MMOs that follow this route, but I don't know which ones they are. World of Tanks I think got brought up but I don't even know if that's actually an MMO.

    Pay for Time involves paying for items that you could otherwise get if you played the game for longer, and give no advantage other than you play the game for less amounts of time. In a game like LoL most things (i believe) are open to everyone with enough XP, but XP is so much of a dribble for non-paying customers that the incentive is there to speed that process up with a bit of cash. Same goes for the in-beta Tribes Ascend and, ofcourse, Team Fortress 2. Lord of the Rings Online has this model (sort of) on top of a pay-for-content model (buying questing areas) which can be bought using in-game points (that you can earn X per day, or suppliment with cash) but good luck buying it that way. You'll need to grind for weeks just to get it for free.

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    It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
  38. Re:freemium only works on stupid people by sexconker · · Score: 2

    Yeah.

    Hats don't help you win.

    What you describe isn't a competitive game but a social one -- collecting meaningless bits of fluff that look neat but serve no purpose.

    Pay to win implies that forking over money gives you an advantage over players who haven't. Hats confer no such advantage. You just mad.. for some reason I can't even begin to understand.

    When the game is about collecting pointless shit, then paying to get that pointless shit instantly is paying to win.
    The game has been about collecting pointless shit for about 2 years now. No one actually plays the game.