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DOJ Asks Court To Keep Secret Google / NSA Partnership
SonicSpike writes "The Justice Department is defending the government's refusal to discuss — or even acknowledge the existence of — any cooperative research and development agreement between Google and the National Security Agency. The Washington based advocacy group Electronic Privacy Information Center sued in federal district court here to obtain documents about any such agreement between the Internet search giant and the security agency. The NSA responded to the suit with a so-called 'Glomar' response in which the agency said it could neither confirm nor deny whether any responsive records exist. U.S. District Judge Richard Leon in Washington sided with the government last July."
China can neither confirm or deny that the U.S. contracting out almost all its intelligence work now to third-party private contractors like Google, Stratfor, etc. makes it a lot easier to steal classified intelligence and code from you dumb yankees.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Since NSA took over Facebook all of the data they need is on there.
The fact that Google still exists is confirmation that they comply with whatever the NSA asks of them.
The next question to be asked is, "Would the NSA benefit from privileged access to Google's data?" If the answer is yes, then it can be assumed that it has access.
Following this, the only thing an individual doing X has to ask is: "Do I want the government to know about X?" If you don't, you hide X from Google.
The alternative ideological approach is to ask whether the spirit and letter of US law allow any particular relationship between the NSA and Google. This is important in the long run for when we consider moving to a transparent government - perhaps one predating the C20 security services and their privileged position wrt/ information.
It's super effective!
"Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power." -Benito Mussolini
What we currently have is corporations acting as arms of the government, and government acting as an arm of corporations, to the point where they aren't very distinguishable.
I am officially gone from
The NSA responded to the suit with a so-called 'Glomar' response in which the agency said it could neither confirm nor deny whether any responsive records exist.
The NSA Representative then followed up that they could neither confirm nor deny the existence of the NSA as well. The reporters counter question was, "So you're saying that there may, or may not be an arrangement between Google and an agency that may or may not exist?" To which the NSA representative simply replied, "I'm not saying anything." And then promptly morphed into a bubble which shrank out of existence over a three second period of time and vanished with a small pop.
Go ask for docs on NSA and MS partnership, or NSA and Apple, or NSA and Yahoo, or NSA and even Bull. You will find that many companies, even those not based here have something going on.
Now, go ask Apple, MS and Yahoo there involvement with China. If you get an honest answer, you would be shocked and PISSED.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Occasionally, when in the name of security, someone says "we can neither confirm nor deny x", x isn't happening (for whatever value of "happening" is appropriate to x). In this case, given the US attitude to jurisdiction the reality may be quite simple. Any data or communications processed on or passed through any system that is owned, operated, managed or otherwise controlled by any US entity or subsidiary thereof may be arbitrarily hoovered up by the NSA or other similar agencies. They will then analyse it however they wish for whatever purpose they want. This can happen regardless of what connections are known to exist between the US authorities and any individual provider. Attempting to discover the scope and extent of those connections may thus be a pointless exercise. The same thing probably happens in many other countries too.
And other truisms:
1. There's no privacy on the internet
2. There's no privacy on the internet
3. There's no GODDAMN PRIVACY ON THE INTERNET.
(Hi, spooks!)
If I could borrow from Mr Rubin, there's no "firewall" between Google and the NSA.
Google and Facebook were just NSA and CIA fronts. The best part would be that they have an almost self-sustaining business model so the cost of running it is defrayed. People get cheap software, and the government gets cheap information on the users plus surveillance and tracking devices in every pocket...
The first rule about X is never talk about X :)
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Don't be evil ...without cause.
EPIC FAIL!
Not so secret now, is it?
X? What X? There is no X.
quote:
EPIC said its records request does not seek documents about NSA's role to secure government computer networks. "Google provides cloud-based services to consumers, not critical infrastructure services to the government," Rotenberg said.
once google 'grew up' and got cozy with the government, I don't think there's any going back. they are *both* for the consumer (if you think that way) and now they are also a source of info feed for the government agencies.
I don't think google set out to do this, when they were a 1000 person company or less; but at their huge successful size and power, now, I don't see how you can exist and not be forced to 'play ball' when ask^Htold to by those who really run things.
with all the data google has, do you really think the gov would sit back and not ask for a fiber tap and a cut of the action, so to speak? come on.
only some of the googlers would be able to deal with this, and it ruins the whole 'do no evil' sunshine and ponies bullshit game they play. whatever ties there are, it won't be confirmable or made public. not even from inside the normal rank and file. but the same as any large powerful company that has things the government wants.
its always been this way, though. don't be shocked. companies and governments are powerful entities and from time to time, they 'have lunch' together.
"its all part of the plan" ;)
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
"Refused to comment" == "keep secret Google/NSA partnership"
So much for Obama's promise of government transparency.
Romney will be no better either. Too bad it isn't practical to pull a Monty Brewster and check "None of the above." I want to write in Ron Paul, but he hasn't a chance of getting elected. He just isn't marketable enough for the drooling masses. :-(
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
And you tell me this now after I've spent all my school years finding it?
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
Generally this response has the informal meaning of Confirming something, but it avoids perjury.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Don't you worry about Planet Express. Let me worry about X.
neither does steve job's rectum, but that's never stopped an apple fan.
So basically you're saying that girls with iPhones are sluts? Good to know :-)
I'm surprised that so many people are taking NSA's "neither confirm nor deny" as proof of Google's guilt. Ask them if they had a ham sandwich for lunch and they'll give you that response. It is the STANDARD response and means absolutely nothing. It wouldn't surprise me a bit if they were or were not working with the NSA but the NSA's statement gives no information as to wether they are or not.
If you trust the US government, you must trust Google too.
The US Government led by great Americans like Barack Obama can do no evil, therefore Google can do no evil.
Therefore this is a non story.
QED
The article failed to mention that the sexual relationships were almost always homosexual.
I urge all of you to dump your Google accounts. I killed my google music account and I am in the process of moving my mail server off of Google Apps. I also deleted all my Google friends and posts, all my Facebook friends, posts, and pictures. Why? Because you don't get something for nothing. Facebook and Google have a relationship with the NSA. As I'm getting older I value my privacy more and more
At least you know baidu is not in cahoots with NSA wankers.
Here's a bit of a warning, mate: girls dig guys who use Apple gear.
Apple = cool user.
Microsoft = corporate user.
Linux user = nerd loser*.
* this comment is not aimed at unix on servers.
Then I am proud to be a nerd loser (Ubuntu 10.04 on both desktop and laptop).. Being 61 and happily married for 26 years
I'm not gonna worry about "the girls not digging me" cuz I don't use rotten apple gear..
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
It sometimes confirms something, but only if the person (or agency in this case) accidentally confirming it isn't particularly clever.
Monday: "Did you steal my sandwich?" "Of course not!"
Tuesday: "Did you steal my sandwich?" "Of course not!"
Wednesday: "Did you steal my sandwich?" "I can neither confirm nor deny whether or not I may have stolen your sandwich."
That doesn't work. If you want "I can't confirm or deny" to work you have to use it consistently.
In this case it's a one-time allegation about something EPIC has little or no proof even exists. Can "give me all your secret information NOW!" be responded to with anything other than "I'm not even going to tell you if I have secret information much less give any of it to you?"
I'm sure that mounting Moby Dick...er.... your wife is great....fun?
The US government has been doing this "we can't confirm or deny" bullshit for 100 years. It's what happens when a country is run by lawyers. It's not rocket science, very easy (by far, it's the response that requires the least amount of effort) and they're very consistent.
Y
The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains
Really? Mussolini? You're going to cherry-pick quotes from him?
Well, allow me to do so as well:
"The truth is that men are tired of liberty."
"Socialism is a fraud, a comedy, a phantom, a blackmail."
"All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state."
Let's just say I'm disappoint.
E actly
He was in both films.
They are just wasting it anyway!
i would think the nsa would be more interested in google's nlp capabilities than in the particular data they have. i dont think the nsa has any problem acquiring data, but they do have a problem extracting meaningful information from the huge volumes of data that they have access to. processing large volumes of data and extracting meaningful information in an automated fashion google's real value. this is why it didnt surprise me when google bought usenet and started offering attractive, free email since this just gives them access to tons of communication that they can use to refine their nlp capabilites.
It takes a mobile supercomputer to manage all those relationships.
The one obvious telltale is the size of the Golden Parachute.
NSA: "Why yes. We have been working with Google to secure their IT infrastructure and protect their user's data."
Or: "We have been working with them on techniques applicable for mining large quantities of data."
It could even be correct, although an incomplete explanation. But it will satisfy most people's curiosity and explain the presence of NSA personnel on Google property. For the tin foil hat crowd, there is nothing anyone could say to allay their suspicion.
If I have a safe in my house, and people suspect that fact, I'll place a cheap locked box where its relatively easy to find, with a few hundred dollars in it. That'll satisfy most stupid burglars and keep them from looking for the real deal.
Have gnu, will travel.
neither does steve job's rectum, but that's never stopped an apple fan.
Rectum!?!? Damned near killed 'em!!!
Oh, wait...
(Sorry, couldn't resist.)
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
The fact that DOJ came out with such a statement makes me think they are playing a blowfish (Trying to make themselves look bigger and tougher than they really are).
It would not surprise me though. Except Google would become a primary target for Freedom advocates.
I'm sure that mounting Moby Dick...er.... your wife is great....fun?
I haven't had a complaint about her yet.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
There is no need to protect the free speech rights of people who are involved in corporations, or other legal entities, by granting those organizations these rights.
The individual people still have their individual free speech rights (in other words there was nothing broken to fix), granting such rights to corporations is just an end-around to give rich people and unions another way to corrupt politicians.
Nice effort, but it's still not quite the way it all shakes out. The way you prove it is use their own new laws/proto-laws against them. (Enforcement is a problem, but that's the next problem.)
"We can neither confirm or deny that we have secret info".
"Sudo you stole an iPad and downloaded a Journey album and violated a patent on a method of being a weasel. Now give us your secret info."
"Okay, here's our info!"
It's a government agency. Of course they have Non-Zero info about *everything*.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine