Slashdot Mirror


White House CIO Describes His 'Worst Day' Ever

dcblogs writes "In the first 40 days of President Barack Obama's administration, the White House email system was down 23% of time, according to White House CIO Brook Colangelo, the person who also delivered the 'first presidential Blackberry.' The White House IT systems inherited by the new administration were in bad shape. Over 82% of the White House's technology had reached its end of life. Desktops, for instance, still had floppy disk drives, including the one Colangelo delivered to Rahm Emanuel, Obama's then chief of staff and now Mayor of Chicago. There were no redundant email servers."

333 comments

  1. Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    23% down sounds about average for MSExchange servers.

    I'm sure they just wasted money buying more of the same crap.

    1. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're a shit administrator you would be happy with 23%...

    2. Re:Not a bad number by omni123 · · Score: 0

      Suggested alternative?

    3. Re:Not a bad number by Sancho · · Score: 4, Informative

      Zimbra. The enterprise version also has ActiveSync support.

    4. Re:Not a bad number by houstonbofh · · Score: 2, Informative

      Postfix. Yes, it is ONLY e-mail, but if you need other stuff, you can add it when e-mail is stable. It is also lightweight enough to handle the load on really old hardware.

    5. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please fire the exchange admins you are hiring. If they can't maintain a 99% uptime they suck.

    6. Re:Not a bad number by davester666 · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is completely out of the question. Unless the email server also includes file sharing, calendaring, a contact database, all supporting multiple group and individual access rights, it simply can't be used for email.

      And the product name must include "Windows" or "Live" in the title, preferably both. And if it can be configured to only support Windows machines, we'll pay double.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    7. Re:Not a bad number by X0563511 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Microsoft: where "five nines" means 9.9999%.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    8. Re:Not a bad number by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      23% down sounds about average for MSExchange servers.

      Only on slashdot could such ignorance get modded up.

      On a bad bad day as a consultant, I have to fix scenarios with Exchange where everything blew up and theyre down for a single day-- MAYBE 2-- out of several years uptime.

      Thats with the clients who have no full time IT staff whatsoever and a shoestring budget.

      Possibly if you have no idea what youre doing, or dont know anything about exchange, then yea 23% might be an OK guess.

    9. Re:Not a bad number by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Comparing Exchange to Postfix is ridiculous. Exchange can be used as a POP / IMAP server if you really want, and the maintenance goes into the ground.

      Of course if you tried to convert to IMAP or POP (whether it be Postfix or Exchange), you would likely be fired when your employer realizes he can no longer use the groupware that was the center of most of his work....

    10. Re:Not a bad number by LordLimecat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Youre free to pretend we still live in a day where it is unnecessary to do group scheduling through email, but you would be wrong.

    11. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Group scheduling and email are different applications. Combining them in one backend is shortsighted.

    12. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Seriously. I was thinking to myself, if any of my exchange servers were down for a whole business day, unless it was due to building fire at a location, they'd probably shit-can me.

      None of them has been down for more than a couple scheduled hours in the middle of the night, and only for upgrades, over the last five or six years.

    13. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The difference between government workers and the private sector.

    14. Re:Not a bad number by jrumney · · Score: 4, Informative

      Other solutions allow you to use "groupware" functionality with IMAP (less so with POP, as that pulls all your mail in locally). Only Microsoft intentionally cripples their IMAP implementation so that you cannot see important fields (like Date/Time of meeting) when you try to browse the vcal messages that are stored in the calendar folder over IMAP.

    15. Re:Not a bad number by Errtu76 · · Score: 2

      If it's only send and retrieve mail, I'd suggest postfix & dovecot. If you want the 'fancy' stuff, give Zarafa a try. It's Dutch, so it must be good (vim, python, etc) :P and under the hood it still uses postfix.

    16. Re:Not a bad number by Enter+the+Shoggoth · · Score: 4, Funny

      Microsoft: where "five nines" means 9.9999%.

      Nah, I think it was more like this:

      Gates to Balmer: our Enterprise products need to have 5x9 uptime.
      Balmer: ok Boss.

      Balmer to VP of Engineering: Bill wants all our products to only work between 5pm and 9am. ...

      --
      Andy Warhol got it right / Everybody gets the limelight
      Andy Warhol got it wrong / Fifteen minutes is too long.
    17. Re:Not a bad number by Mabhatter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You miss the fact that he INHERITED that system. That's how politics works. The lame duck guy in charge of the White House (which would be the former President DIRECTLY) let the thing rot...

      Part can be attributed to the old staff being done with the position and the new guy will just buy new stuff anyway... Almost fair?

      Part of all the downtime was a FEATURE that the pervious administration used to their full advantage... They were über controll freaks... Controlling information of their own "trusted" employees was part of D.C.'s daily routine. The rot was deliberate to stop communications from being added to the archives.

    18. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't there a bug in IE that made Windows unstable after 5x9 days? Or was it 5x9 hours?

    19. Re:Not a bad number by marcello_dl · · Score: 2

      I agree, I think that nothing prevented the former administration from getting decent hardware. If they lived with a broken system they wanted it. The new guy should have taken it all, put in a room sealed it and never thought about it again, IMHO, for the same reason.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    20. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was Bush's fault! ! !

    21. Re:Not a bad number by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      Or was that 9 hours a day, for 5 days of the week?

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    22. Re:Not a bad number by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Group scheduling and email are different applications. Combining them in one backend is shortsighted.

      True, but Exchange isn't an "email" application--it is a group productivity application that includes email, group calendaring and scheduling, tasks, and collaboration.

      I understand there are MS haters who will bash Exchange relentlessly, with any label on it, but let's try to be even a tiny bit accurate. Exchange isn't an "email" service and hasn't been exclusively that for nearly 15 years: Time to come up with some new criticisms, the old ones don't apply.

      --
      Who did what now?
    23. Re:Not a bad number by Immerial · · Score: 2

      23% down sounds about average for MSExchange servers.

      Only on slashdot could such ignorance get modded up.

      And only on slashdot could someone WOOOOSH so bad... it was modded up FUNNY.

    24. Re:Not a bad number by CajunArson · · Score: 1

      They were uber controll freaks... Controlling information of their own "trusted" employees was part of D.C.'s daily routine.

      Wait you said they got rid of the old staff? You just described the Obama administration there so why would they want to get rid of anybody like that?

      --
      AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
    25. Re:Not a bad number by kbg · · Score: 1

      Really? In this day and age when email is perhaps the only communication for some members, then group scheduling has to be delivered by email.

    26. Re:Not a bad number by dcw3 · · Score: 1, Troll

      You miss the fact that he INHERITED that system. That's how politics works.

      Oh, you mean like when Dubbya showed up, and all the W keys were missing from the keyboards...
      http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,619013,00.html

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    27. Re:Not a bad number by nahdude812 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Gates: We need five nines of uptime
      Ballmer: Engineering, we need 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 uptime.
      Engineering Manager: Guys, our uptime goal is 45%
      Engineering: We already deliver about 72%.
      Engineering Manager: Steve, we actually have 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 9 uptime!
      Ballmer: Bill, we're so stable we have 8 nines of uptime! Let's see our competitors beat that!
      Gates: Great Steve, let's add some more bloat and see if we can bring that number down some so we leave ourselves with room for improvement.

    28. Re:Not a bad number by Wild_dog! · · Score: 2

      Workers are workers.... government or private.
      Can't get more human than human and we are all the same animal.

    29. Re:Not a bad number by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Naw... Chenney's...that way everyone could be in the dark about all of the covert snack runs.

    30. Re:Not a bad number by jimicus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More to the point, businesses haven't wanted an email service for nearly 15 years.

      They want the group productivity application. But they don't call it that because the most visible part - the part they really see - is the email.

    31. Re:Not a bad number by Hatta · · Score: 2

      The "no true email client" fallacy I see. Whatever it is that Exchange does, I don't want it.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    32. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exchange isn't an "email" service and hasn't been exclusively that for nearly 15 years

      I think that's what most people are complaining about, why have one server doing multiple things? KISS. It should be that those other parts are broken off onto their own servers so that downtime is restricted to each individual part.

    33. Re:Not a bad number by Pumpkin+Tuna · · Score: 2, Informative

      You miss the fact that he INHERITED that system. That's how politics works.

      Oh, you mean like when Dubbya showed up, and all the W keys were missing from the keyboards...
      http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,619013,00.html

      Except that the GAO investigated and decided that there wasn't enough evidence to prove any of the "missing W' allegations. I did like the "office of strategery" sign though.

    34. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Commenting as AC so as not to undo the mods I made in this discussion thread.)

      Looking through your recent history, it's clear you have some serious wood for Microsoft. That's not necessarily bad, but it is bad if it blinds you to the limitations of Microsoft's unnecessary lock-out of non-Microsoft clients. Microsoft uses Exchange to lock-out all other platforms so as to force people to adopt (a current version of) Microsoft of Windows.

      Yes, Microsoft Exchange puts bread on your table. Nothing wrong with that as long as you keep in mind that It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.

    35. Re:Not a bad number by jwest · · Score: 1, Informative

      That story was shown to be "largely bunk":
      http://www.salon.com/2001/05/23/vandals/

    36. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously. I was thinking to myself, if any of my exchange servers were down for a whole business day, unless it was due to building fire at a location, they'd probably shit-can me.

      None of them has been down for more than a couple scheduled hours in the middle of the night, and only for upgrades, over the last five or six years.

      If my building had a fire, our Exchange server wouldn't be down very long. Something about offsite mirroring.

    37. Re:Not a bad number by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 2

      Exchange isn't an "email" service and hasn't been exclusively that for nearly 15 years

      I think that's what most people are complaining about, why have one server doing multiple things? KISS. It should be that those other parts are broken off onto their own servers so that downtime is restricted to each individual part.

      First of all, you've proposed using five servers to provide the same services as one server in an effort to "Keep It Simple ..." Do you recognize how ridiculously not-simple such a plan is? You've gone from one server to 4-5 (depending on what features you're using.) How is that "simple?" ...and I have to train my users to utilize a different everything (calendar, email, tasks, contact management, and collaboration) too?

      Where do I sign up!

      Additionally, Exchange Server now comes with redundancy and fail-over capabilities which means that unplanned downtime from "failure" is now down to the efficacy of the individual engineer, and his employer's willingness to spend money to reduce downtime. How much downtime is "acceptable" is directly proportional to how much value your organization derives from a particular service. How much you actually have is directly proportional to how much you spend to prevent it (up to a certain point.)

      --
      Who did what now?
    38. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Exchange servers at the particular state agency that I work at haven't been down for close to five years also. Neither have our Sendmail forwarders. All are managed in-house. I wish I could say the same for my ISP. Or my bank.

    39. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're referring to the timer bug in Win9x where after X seconds (roughly 49.5 days IIRC), the counter would overflow, crashing the OS. It hasn't been an active concern for about a decade now.

    40. Re:Not a bad number by SCHecklerX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      in my experience, Zimbra is a bloated pig with its share of availability problems as well. I hate the whole "let's take a bunch of open source pieces but just throw them together as an inflexible blob of crap in /opt" approach. The installer leaves a lot to be desired as well, with key components around setting proper permissions resulting in an install that will never work until you manually fix it.

    41. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "you've proposed using five servers to provide the same services as one server in an effort to "Keep It Simple ..." Do you recognize how ridiculously not-simple such a plan is?"

      I see you are a believer in the Kitchen Sink theory of simplicity.

    42. Re:Not a bad number by amginenigma · · Score: 0

      Not to fan a political fire but Mr. Obama ain't no saint when it comes to secrecy... http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/21/nation/la-na-ticket21-2010mar21 ^ not exactly a 'conservative' paper by any means. Cherry picking from the article "An Associated Press examination of 17 major agencies' handling of FOIA requests found denials 466,872 times, an increase of nearly 50% from the 2008 fiscal year under Bush". Lets just face it Obama is a politician, and as a politician essentially every time he opens his mouth he lies, just like his predecessor, and his, etc, etc, etc. WE the people really need to wake the hell up and hold these people we elect accountable, we need to research their records and hold their feet to the fire when they lie to us, conservative or liberal doesn't matter a lie is a lie and this President lies with the best of them.

    43. Re:Not a bad number by jc42 · · Score: 1

      ... Exchange isn't an "email" application--it is a group productivity application that includes email, group calendaring and scheduling, tasks, and collaboration.

      Reminds me of the old engineering rule of thumb, to the effect that the more (fewer) tasks a tool is designed to do, the worse (better) it does each of them.

      This sort of design is a major reason that computers have their public reputation of being difficult, clumsy, recalcitrant tools that so often don't do quite what you want. But there's strong pressure on developers to add features to every program, until every tool looks like a large "Swiss army knife".

      Exchange isn't the only tool with this design. One of the favorite example among geeks is emacs, which is sometimes jokingly described as a good operating system that has a clumsy, hard-to-use editor hidden inside.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    44. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed, obviously the outgoing CIO's team was more competent at keeping aging servers up and running. I like how it is phrased to make the outgoing people sound stupid when from my perspective they were probably just more resourceful.

      If you hire a new guy and everything starts breaking and he starts whining about everything being outdated, it really makes you wonder why the previous guy didn't have these same problems. Maybe they just work differently, maybe the new guy likes shiny things and the old guy hated change, maybe the new guy like to hire consultants to set everything up and really doesn't know shit(I ran into one of these, fuck if all you are going to do is call a 3rd party I can have the secretary do that)

    45. Re:Not a bad number by parlancex · · Score: 1

      My kingdom for a mod point.

    46. Re:Not a bad number by Myopic · · Score: 4, Funny

      I would like to say that I am absolutely shocked that George W. Bush didn't have a team of IT professionals able to expertly administer the White House technology infrastructure. Given his record of surrounding himself with the best of the best, it's almost impossible to believe.

    47. Re:Not a bad number by nine-times · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, unfortunately, Exchange works very well for many businesses, and it's providing something that they need. You may ask, why do you want to combine scheduling and email into the same application and back-end?

      The answer is obvious to people who've used Exchange. You send meeting invites through email. When you're sending the invite through email, your email application can also tell you whether the intended recipients are already busy. You can also schedule resources (e.g. a conference room or projector) and view availability while creating your email invitation.

      And why include contacts? Well that, I'd hope, is obvious. All email applications keep a contact list anyway, since they need to store email addresses. If you want to create a contact database that includes email addresses, you may as well include that in the email application.

      Tasks? Well, for many of us, our task list comes straight out of email. I get an email, and I need to create tasks for what I'm going to do in response. Plus, "tasks" and "calendars" are logically linked together as tools for effective task-management.

    48. Re:Not a bad number by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      In comparison with the private sector, government employees are about the rudest motherfuckers I have to deal with. Be it our politicians, USPS, county court house, drivers license renewal and registration clerks, social security office. The list goes on I'm sure, but I'll stop right here.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    49. Re:Not a bad number by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      So what about the current administration? Will they pony up the IT funds for an infrastructure overhaul and justify it to the tax payer? How about the administration after that one?

      No. It will collapse. Maybe someone will throw water on it all. The point is to take advantage of the crisis as a political event to acquire 1000% more the funding that is necessary. Of that, 1% will get allocated to IT (if you're lucky), and 99% go into pet projects. A bit of a hyperbole (well, not really), just trying to illustrate corruption and politics as usual.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    50. Re:Not a bad number by obsess5 · · Score: 2

      Never spent hours on the phone with your health insurance company trying to get something straightened out?

    51. Re:Not a bad number by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      I love our USPS employees we chat every time we go to the post office and catch up. I love our DL renewal people, they are always courteous and go out of the way to help me out since my ID got stolen and someone got a suspended license in another state using my info (I always have problems but the clerks go out of their way to help me out. Our local politicians are most generally very nice people and are friends and neighbors even if I disagree with some of their views.
      Perhaps you live in the wrong part of the country.

    52. Re:Not a bad number by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Given the horrors other nations face with national healthcare, would you rather spend weeks if not months to get an issue resolved via the bloated bureaucratic process?

      You want improved service? Encourage competition and accountability. I cannot stress this enough!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    53. Re:Not a bad number by HereIAmJH · · Score: 1

      I'll take dealing with the driver's license bureau (DMV) over Verizon Wireless or Time Warner Cable any day. Comcast wasn't rude, just incompetent.

      --
      Another day, another update to a Google android app.
    54. Re:Not a bad number by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It must be nice being the exception to every rule.

    55. Re:Not a bad number by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      I honestly don't know if it was bunk or not, but it was very widely reported, and on the first two pages of my google search, only that salon article claims it was false.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    56. Re:Not a bad number by omglolbah · · Score: 1

      Given the horrors other nations face with national healthcare,

      I can get an appointment with my doc for 'critical' things mostly same day or next day..
      If it can wait, I usually get in the same week...

      Had to go to a specialist to have my wisdom teeth removed (due to nerve placement, tricky crud..) and had to wait a whole 6 weeks for that... But I have the option of paying it all out of pocket and go to a private practice should I chose to. I dont mind dodging a 5000 dollar expense by waiting a bit..

      Had an accident at work (flying cat5 cable of snappiness) and it hit my eye.. got to my doc on the hour, got a referral to an eye doc, had a clear message of what was wrong and what to d oto fix it and had my eye-drops and crud before the end of the day.

      My mother was recently diagnosed with polymyalgia rheumatica and she wont take a financial hit due to the very expensive treatment. She also got in to a specialist within a month of the issue popping up.

      I dont personally have any issue with the public health service here in Norway. I honestly do not mind paying 35% income tax considering all the things I get in return.

    57. Re:Not a bad number by TheSpoom · · Score: 0

      The reality is that George W. Bush did have such a team; the problem is that they worked for the Republicans, not the Government, and they took their technology with them when they left.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
    58. Re:Not a bad number by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      The most important criticisms of Exchange have nothing to do with what services it does or does not provide, but whether or not it provides them well.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    59. Re:Not a bad number by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      No, it's an appeal for the "do one thing but do it well" principle that is the exact opposite of everything Microsoft does.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    60. Re:Not a bad number by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Most business clients are a lot more happy to put up with the shenanigans of Exchange + Outlook than they would be with Postfix + thunderbird.

      YOU may be OK separating email from contacts and calendar, but that happens to be one of the biggest complaints I remember that thunderbird got. The few times I've offered it as a free replacement, it was immediately rejected by the customer because they WANT to be able to use Outlook as a planner+rolodex.

    61. Re:Not a bad number by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Its not "kitchen sink" when theyre all features that a user wants, and would fire you for leaving off.

    62. Re:Not a bad number by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Theres some internet law about how sarcasm is basically impossible to detect, primarily because there are a LOT of people who think that GP was making a true statement.

      It was modded informative or insightful when I left my comment, I really doubt it was intended as a woosh.

    63. Re:Not a bad number by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Im not convinced its intentional, I think they just really suck at IMAP for some reason :P

      I hear Outlook 2010 is finally able to properly use IMAP, FWIW..... Not like they havent had enough time to get it working...

    64. Re:Not a bad number by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      I like to drive fast. I need to haul stuff. I could make a sports truck that is a crappy version of both, or I can get a sports car and a truck. Better yet, I can use the truck as a car if the car is in the shop.

    65. Re:Not a bad number by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      Funny... I did it. It was appreciated. Postfix and Dovecot for imap, and google for calendars... Worked really well, was much more stable, and a hell of a lot cheaper. If things like that get you fired, you are in the wrong place.

    66. Re:Not a bad number by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 1

      Its not "kitchen sink" when theyre all features that a user wants, and would fire you for leaving off.

      Replying because I can't mod in this thread, but this is the most insightful thing said here so far: It isn't a "kitchen sink" if your co-workers need the feature to do their jobs. They don't exist for the purpose of kow-towing to your divine fiats: You're there to serve THEM, not the other way around.

      --
      Who did what now?
    67. Re:Not a bad number by Monchanger · · Score: 1

      Google isn't in the business of determining truth. Only relevance. Figuring out which information to believe is still your job.

    68. Re:Not a bad number by dbIII · · Score: 0

      People who've never had the misfortune of keeping an MS Exchange system running tend to forget that it is also a bunch of pieces thrown together as an inflexible blob of crap - it's a software suite not an application. Zimbra appears to have been designed to be an open copy of the MS Exchange approach which is why it suffers in the same way.
      The main difference I suppose is that full backups suitable for bare metal recovery could be done without stopping the thing as early as the first release. MS Exchange only got to that point when volume shadow copy was released so it was possible to get around such an incredibly major flaw that should never be seen in a released product.

    69. Re:Not a bad number by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      I don't think it is the exception. Most everywhere here where I live currently people are nice, friendly, courteous. It is that way almost all other places I have been as well and I have lived in some 20 odd places in my life including other countries.
      I guess if you view the world as negative it will be. I love the world and I love the people in it. More good than bad by far.

    70. Re:Not a bad number by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      If youre a car maker, and your boss demands a truck that goes fast, you can either produce one or find a new job.

      When youre an IT person and tasked with making a collaboration solution and you offer up postfix, dont be surprised when you get canned because everyone is pissed off that they can no longer send conference invitations.

    71. Re:Not a bad number by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      My only recent pro-ms comments are pro-exchange comments. I happen to hate a large number of MS technologies. AD + Exchange happen to be, IMO, their best solutions.

      In all honesty Im far more pro-google than I am pro-MS.

    72. Re:Not a bad number by MrKettlePot · · Score: 1

      With Verizon, Timewarner, Comcast and really any other ISP you are dealing with an oligopoly at best and a monopoly at worst. Capitalism doesn't really work without competition.

    73. Re:Not a bad number by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      Flamebait moderator, please justify yourself. There are a wealth of articles showing that the Bush White House tended to use Republican servers rather than the official White House servers because they allowed them to escape scrutiny and reporting requirements.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  2. Floppy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    All my machines have a floppy.

    I don't understand how adding a peripheral can make the machine "worse"?

    1. Re:Floppy... by Fluffeh · · Score: 4, Funny

      I don't understand how adding a peripheral can make the machine "worse"?

      The same way that a Mercedes with an attachment on the front to allow it to be pulled by horses isn't as good as one with a normal bumper bar.

      Car Analogy, Check. Snideness, Check. Condescension, Check. Now time to get that coffee I deserve...

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    2. Re:Floppy... by Stormwatch · · Score: 2

      It does not per se, but it is a sign that it is an outdated machine.

    3. Re:Floppy... by peppepz · · Score: 2

      I don't understand either (nor I understand why you were modded "redundant"). Some desktop machines you can buy even now still have floppy drives. It's even more understandable for PA machines to have them, since they may have had special compatibility requirements until a couple years ago. And even if we assume that those PCs were not exactly new, since they're not supposed to run Crysis, as a taxpayer I'm happier if my administrators can take the most out of not-so-old machines instead of watching them spend tax money on the latest hip hardware. Windows 7 runs successfully on Pentium IV hardware. Linux does even better.

    4. Re:Floppy... by jrumney · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not necessarily. Their purchasing contract may have adopted to the fact that Pentium II processors are no longer available, and now specifies a "required peripheral list", leaving the processor and RAM spec open to whatever is current at time of purchase. So the machines they are buying might be modern fast machines, but somewhere in the contract it says they need to have floppy drives, so they do (most motherboards are still coming with floppy controllers on them for some reason, so nothing has forced them to reevaluate whether they need one, and the supplier is probably happily collecting a premium for supplying them, so doesn't want to rock the boat).

    5. Re:Floppy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cafe Latte, twist of lemon.... Sweet N' Low.

    6. Re:Floppy... by Retron · · Score: 5, Informative

      most motherboards are still coming with floppy controllers on them for some reason,

      If only... None of the HP machines we've bought at work in the past couple of years have had them and we buy both the slimline desktop variety and mini-tower PCs. The few Dells I've seen likewise don't have any floppy ports on the motherboard.

      As for build-your-own PCs, or ones from companies that assemble generic parts into PCs, very few come with floppy ports on the motherboard. Indeed, the only non-industrial Intel motherboards I know of that have a floppy port are the ASRock Extreme boards - and that's powered by a SuperIO chip on the motherboard, as chipset support for floppies was dropped by Intel years ago.

      Note: the reason I mention all this is because I'm looking at getting a Z77 motherboard in the next few months with a floppy connector, so that I can hook up a 5.25" floppy drive I've acquired (purely for the heck of it, before anyone asks - I've a big box of old disks from the early 90s that I wouldn't mind rummaging through, the PC I used for those having been chucked out years back). ASRock are pretty much the only option nowadays and I have no doubts that when Haswell comes out next year the old 37-pin floppy connector will be well and truly extinct.

    7. Re:Floppy... by bedouin · · Score: 2

      Could be wrong here, but I'm thinking even if you get the drive hooked up you're going to have issues finding a modern BIOS that can support 5.25" disks.

    8. Re:Floppy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      hey, my (internally) new pc still has a floppy drive, I'm just not sure if I bothered to connect it when I last upgraded my mainboard and cpu :D

    9. Re:Floppy... by jrumney · · Score: 2

      Indeed, the only non-industrial Intel motherboards I know of that have a floppy port are the ASRock Extreme boards - and that's powered by a SuperIO chip on the motherboard, as chipset support for floppies was dropped by Intel years ago.

      Maybe my experience is skewed by the fact that the last two PCs I've built have been AMD based. I stand corrected, I just assumed it was a standard part of every IDE controller, and though my current motherboard came with half a dozen SATA ports, I was surprised to see it still has the dual IDE port and floppy controller of old, and the BIOS even still lists Floppy as the first boot device by default.

    10. Re:Floppy... by TapeCutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a strong possibility. I've seen similar bizzare things based on what's written in a contract and in private industry not just goverment. My first encouter with contract crazyness was at a large telco in the mid 90's where I had I authorised putting 250MB disks into ~100 laptops with dead drives. However this upset a PHB somewhere in the money spending chain of command because the original maintenance contract stated 120MB disks (which were by this time out of production and as rare as hen's teeth). I tried explaining the supply problem and that the contrator was actually giving us twice the storage for no extra cost. In the end it was simpler to explain the situation to the contrator and (sheepishly) ask them to refomat the 250MB disks down to 120MB than it was to continue butting heads with a dick-swinging autocrat from the finance dept.

      Office politics is really no different to real politics, the vast number of people who work for large organisations be they private, public or charitable are for the most part reletively efficient at whatever it is they do, but one or two clowns in the wrong position can turn the whole thing into a circus. In an evolutionary sense large organisations exist because they can do what no man can do alone. However our tribal instincts are still evolving such that we can live with and within groups of more than ~150 that are required to produce what a single mind can imagine, large groups (civilization,cities) simply did not exist until we invented agriculture and yet our current civilization(s) cannot function without them.

      For example the multi-national I work for has about 175K people, a death in that "tribe" would happen quite frequently (say one a week), but it's only the handful of people I personally work with that I care (or even know) about. I think the fact that telecommunications have gone from simple morse code to their current star trek capabilities is part of that evolution, we are tool-makers, it's in our nature to invent tools to overcome the problems caused by inventing tools. So in a way that will probably upset bioligists it can be said that our tools and our instincts are co-evolving to accomplish greater feats, but our tools are evolving at a geometrical rate whereas our base instincts evolve at a glacial rate. So I'm betting our tools will evolve to the point where the size of the organisation is (almost) irrelevant to the effectiveness of its internal organisation long before our pumy minds can name, let alone care about, 175k individuals.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    11. Re:Floppy... by c0mpliant · · Score: 2, Funny

      AMD based PC built in the last two years? Why?

      --
      There is no -1 disagree
    12. Re:Floppy... by semi-extrinsic · · Score: 1

      Windows 7 runs successfully on Pentium IV hardware. Linux does even better.

      I call BS. Pentium IV hardware is typically slower than Atom-based netbooks, and those can only run crippled versions of Win 7 (barely). Modern Linux distros, however, I agree will run fine. I do that every day at work.

      --
      for i in `facebook friends "=bday" 2>/dev/null | cut -d " " -f 3-`; do facebook wallpost $i "Happy birthday!"; done
    13. Re:Floppy... by CSMoran · · Score: 1

      All my machines have a floppy.

      I don't understand how adding a peripheral can make the machine "worse"?

      I don't understand how adding a third nipple. Oh wait...

      --
      Every end has half a stick.
    14. Re:Floppy... by peppepz · · Score: 1

      It does work. I tried it personally and it was usable. Better than a netbook. The machine in question had 3 GB of RAM, though, which isn't common among computers of its age. I don't know how well it would work with less RAM, but since as you say Windows 7 runs on netbooks with just 1 GB of RAM, it might work as well, if sluggish. The crippling of the OS that MS mandates on netbooks is more political than technical (e.g. I don't think that changing the desktop wallpaper has anything to do with performance... it did back in the times of Windows 3.1, but then the alternative was a solid or stippled background, not just another JPEG with a Windows logo).

    15. Re:Floppy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what the fuck is this.

      Chief, what IS this.

      *sigh* *throws up hands and storms off.

    16. Re:Floppy... by Howard+Beale · · Score: 1

      I 'c' what you did there.

    17. Re:Floppy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a wide range of Pentium IV and Atom chips. My employer provided a now 6 year old Pentium IV 3.2GHz desktop, on this benchmark list it scores 522, it runs Windows 7 successfully although it needed a discrete graphic card to enable Aero. I also have a netbook with an Atom Z520 which scores only 247 on the chart, it came preinstalled with Win7 Home Premium and runs adequately with nothing crippled.

    18. Re:Floppy... by sa1lnr · · Score: 1

      360K , 5.25"
      1.2M , 5.25"
      720K , 3.5"
      1.44M, 3.5"
      2.88M, 3.5"

      Pretty much standard on all motherboards that have a floppy controller.

      From my X38 and X48 socket 775 motherboards.

    19. Re:Floppy... by AlecC · · Score: 1

      I'll give you another example. the company I worked for in the very distant past had recently upgraded from tape-based systems to hard disk based systems. These were the top-loading washing machine style drives, with ten platters on a spindle, and the disk packs cost a fair sum. Stocking the data centre with forty or fifty of these things came to a fair amount - enough to go to the board for approval. Time passes, and our team gets a floppy-disk based microprocessor development system (8 in floppies). We want to buy a box of floppies so each team member can have his own floppy and even (shock, horror) take backups. But it was now written into the procedures that purchases of disks required board approval - despite the fact that this box of disks was only just over the manager's petty-cash limit. It took two weeks to get past this hump, during which a team of three were doing all their work in the two floppies we actually owned.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    20. Re:Floppy... by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      Anything past Socket 775 is pushing it in terms of legacy ports. Seems when Sandy Bridge came out is when the floppy port finally vanished along with PS/2 keyboard and mouse ports on mainstream boards (lower end H61 boards seem to have them along with parallel and serial headers for some reason).

    21. Re:Floppy... by krept · · Score: 1

      Isn't it obvious? Launch codes are still stored on floppy...

      --
      None of us know everything. Therefore we're all naïve.
    22. Re:Floppy... by JimCanuck · · Score: 1


      I got a small stash of floppy drives and every time I build a new desktop I always put one in. MAYBE in a high end technology only location does not having one not pose a problem.

      For the rest of us, there is still plenty of machines out there that need support with one, and plenty of (especially industrial) machines that still come with a FDD as a standard I/O interface to do low level resetting and file transfers. Simply because a manufacturing location doesn't want to replace everything every few years cause "technology" either progressed away, or worse doesn't have the robustness to actually give you a decent ROI.

    23. Re:Floppy... by bobbutts · · Score: 1

      You could go with a USB floppy controller. http://shop.deviceside.com/prod/FC5025

    24. Re:Floppy... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I could answer that. Budget build. Have you seen how cheap the Phenom X4's are, even if they're not the fastest?

    25. Re:Floppy... by Alioth · · Score: 1

      Once you've booted the operating system (unless you're using DOS) then the BIOS isn't used any more, it doesn't really matter what it supports so long as the OS supports what you want to use.

    26. Re:Floppy... by peppepz · · Score: 1

      What? Weren't those all 00000000?

    27. Re:Floppy... by dwpro · · Score: 1

      I built one because Intel is market distorting OLPC interfering bastard of a company.

      --
      Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
    28. Re:Floppy... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      A Pentium can run Windows 7 just fine. I've used Windows 7, along with Vista and the Windows 8 preview on several P4 systems, the former two on pre-Hyperthreading chips. While the Atom may compare with the old P4 in raw processing power, if the P4 is a typical desktop machine with a 7200 RPM hard drive and your typical 128-256 MB discrete graphics card it will absolutely run circles around the Atom-powered netbook for most tasks.

    29. Re:Floppy... by Fancia · · Score: 1

      If you're looking for 5.25" floppies, you should probably look into a versatile USB controller like the Kryoflux; that way you're not tied to particular motherboards, and you get a lot more versatility over what kinds of floppies and drives you can read.

      --

      Bít, zabít, jen proto, ze su liska!
    30. Re:Floppy... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Were there ever 120MB laptop drives? I don't recall. Did you possibly mean GB?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  3. Love it by sixtyeight · · Score: 1

    TFA indicates clearly not only that there's no urgent need for IT geeks to unionize, but also what havoc they could wreak if they ever did.

    --
    The Wolfpack Project: BitCoin + Crowdfunding = Political Accountability
    1. Re:Love it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Instead of starting a sick-out, start a server-out. That'll wake people up on every level of the organizational food chain.

    2. Re:Love it by ryanov · · Score: 2

      My union covers our IT personnel (I am chair of the union's IT committee).

    3. Re:Love it by sixtyeight · · Score: 1

      Awesome. Hope to Möbius you guys never think of accepting contracts from rival companies on the side.

      ...Well, I guess you have now. (innocent look)

      --
      The Wolfpack Project: BitCoin + Crowdfunding = Political Accountability
    4. Re:Love it by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      Well it depends which ones. In reality "computer jobs" at places like Microsoft or EA are really glorified "production" workers... And they are treated like factory workers were ages ago. Unionization would benefit those industries (and in the long run make products BETTER) because their management has continually refused to learn the basics of managing projects and tech workers.

    5. Re:Love it by BVis · · Score: 3, Informative

      Please stop perpetuating the lie that union workers are "unfireable". Unions do not protect workers from being fired for gross incompetence, theft, sabotage, and so forth. What they DO give you is the right to 'progressive discipline', where you can't be fired for wearing the wrong color shirt or being two minutes late for your shift, without a hearing with a union representative advocating for your interests.

      Until American workers enjoy some of the protections of their European counterparts (even if limited to being required to provide a REASON for a termination - employers in 'at will' states can fire you and say to your face "we're not going to tell you why"), then unions will be necessary in this country.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    6. Re:Love it by lucm · · Score: 0

      Please stop perpetuating the lie that union workers are "unfireable".

      Of course union workers can be fired. Union reps and leaders, that's another story. It's like a pregnant, crippled woman that is part of an ethnic minority and works in the public sector - unfireable.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    7. Re:Love it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until American workers enjoy some of the protections of their European counterparts (even if limited to being required to provide a REASON for a termination - employers in 'at will' states can fire you and say to your face "we're not going to tell you why"), then unions will be necessary in this country.

      But yet I've been employed 15+ years in IT, never for a government or union employer, and never received a dollar in unemployment, having been employed gainfully the entire time. Why is a union necessary to protect me? I'm not necessarily against unions, they serve their place in certain job types in certain industries, but it's absurd to think I'm suffering without union protection.

    8. Re:Love it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean sorta like the people that have their heads up the bosses ass so far you can't tell where they end and your boss begins?

      Or how about when those people eventually get promoted to middle management and fuck up everything they touch but would cost more to fire than to just move to a different department?

      There's just as much problem, if not more with cronyism and bullshit in non-union shops as there is in union ones. At least the union shops usually have clear cut expectations of employees. I certainly have never had a boss come dump a ton of crap on me that's not even my fucking job on me in a union shop, but in a non-union shop, we call that Thursday.

      Of course there's the mindset that we should just do whatever our bosses expect of us because we should just be so fucking grateful that they cast their eye upon us when it came time to hire a new desk drone for $30k a year, but I'm not a fucking slave, so that never held much water for me.

    9. Re:Love it by lucm · · Score: 1

      Of course there's the mindset that we should just do whatever our bosses expect of us because we should just be so fucking grateful that they cast their eye upon us when it came time to hire a new desk drone for $30k a year, but I'm not a fucking slave, so that never held much water for me.

      No, you should do whatever your boss is expecting from you because this is the reason you are paid at all. If you want to get money to do whatever *you* want, start your own business - either a small one so you can work by yourself, or an incredibly successful one so you can pay people more than $30k a year because it is a well-known fact that everyone deserves to make a million every year.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    10. Re:Love it by BVis · · Score: 1

      You've been fortunate. In your case you haven't needed the protection of a union. The point is, that can change at any time if your boss is in a poopy mood, and with a union, a poopy mood on the part of your boss isn't a justifiable reason for termination.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    11. Re:Love it by ryanov · · Score: 1

      Why don't you come over this way and tell that to the union reps that have been fired by my organization over the years? I'm sure they'll be happy to hear it was all a misunderstanding.

    12. Re:Love it by ryanov · · Score: 1

      You're hired to do *a* job, not ANY job or several jobs.

    13. Re:Love it by ryanov · · Score: 1

      A union isn't necessary until it's necessary. If all bosses were wonderful, unions would be almost completely unnecessary.

    14. Re:Love it by ryanov · · Score: 1

      A movement to specifically organize IT would be interesting. We were just organized as a consequence of having organized the nurses and then following with the rest of the processional staff (it's a healthcare union I'm a part of).

    15. Re:Love it by lucm · · Score: 1

      You're hired to do *a* job, not ANY job or several jobs.

      Spoken like a true union worker

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    16. Re:Love it by ryanov · · Score: 2

      Thank you. BTW, that's not a slur. Why is it a badge of honor to some people to be as spineless as possible?

    17. Re:Love it by lucm · · Score: 1

      Thank you. BTW, that's not a slur. Why is it a badge of honor to some people to be as spineless as possible?

      This is 2012; nowadays there are multiple ways to enter in a respectful, efficient work relationship other than bring in unions - and that does not mean being spineless.

      I guess if you work in an environment where individual contributions have low value then you need the group to protect your job... You need the union to make sure that nobody but the copier guy will use the copier machine and that promotion is based on how many years you've been at the job, not what value you can bring in. I don't see the interest in that kind of environment but if you are happy being the loud mouth with a On Strike sign always available in your top drawer, good for you (until they outsource your job to Mexico or India).

      I remember my first contact with unions. It was in school, and everybody in the program was looking forward to the RDBMS course scheduled for the next semester because the teacher of that course was recognized for his skills. When we got to the classroom on the first day of that course, some old guy came in and told us he would be the teacher - apparently he had tenure and more years on the job than the other guy and since he did not have enough hours in his schedule for that semester, he had bumped the other guy (who was now out of a job). The first thing he told us was: I know nothing about RDBMS, we will discover this together. The union had his back and the school could not audit his skills before allowing him to give a course... it's unfortunate that he provided zero value to the students, but what was important was that he had a full schedule because it is a well-known fact that the purpose of schools is to give job security to teachers.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    18. Re:Love it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they haven't been much use over there to date and probably never will be...

    19. Re:Love it by ryanov · · Score: 1

      Ah! So you don't know what you're talking about and have no experience with unions, but you remember something from when you were a school-aged kid and are pretty sure that entitles you to slam an entire workforce because of it. Sounds legit.

    20. Re:Love it by lucm · · Score: 1

      Ah! So you don't know what you're talking about and have no experience with unions, but you remember something from when you were a school-aged kid and are pretty sure that entitles you to slam an entire workforce because of it. Sounds legit.

      "First contact" hardly means "only contact" but if you are more comfortable disregarding other people opinions and accusing them of having no knowledge of the matter when they disagree with you, then you may interpret my comments at your convenience for all I care.

      So here you go: everybody who is not pro-union is spineless and everybody who disagrees with you is slamming an entire workforce. Now that in your imaginary version of reality you've been vindicated, go back to your picket line before someone else pick the bullhorn to sing The Internationale. Oh no, wait, it won't happen because it's *your* job and taking over in your absence would expose them to a grievance. Good thing the Union is there to protect you while you promote its virtues on a forum where most people are not unionized and not interested in getting unionized.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    21. Re:Love it by ryanov · · Score: 1

      If you knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't say things that were patently false. It is not a difference of opinion, it is flat out ignorance and stereotyping. For example, you're ignorant enough to think that you file grievances against members of your own union. When you insult an entire class of employees based on the sole fact that they're a member of a union, I think that counts as "slamming an entire workforce." It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing, it has to do with painting people you've never met and know nothing about with a broad brush, you fucking ignoramus.

    22. Re:Love it by lucm · · Score: 1

      If you knew what you were talking about, you wouldn't say things that were patently false. It is not a difference of opinion, it is flat out ignorance and stereotyping. For example, you're ignorant enough to think that you file grievances against members of your own union. When you insult an entire class of employees based on the sole fact that they're a member of a union, I think that counts as "slamming an entire workforce." It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing, it has to do with painting people you've never met and know nothing about with a broad brush, you fucking ignoramus.

      Well I was unionized about 4 years ago (it was mandatory in that company) and a coworker actually filed a grievance because I had more hours on my schedule than him. Maybe it was not "against me" but it was pretty much targeting me.

      Calling people "ignorant" or "ignoramus" is not convincing (especially when you also accuse the other person of painting people with a broad brush), it just shows that you have no valid point to defend so you get pretty emotional. I'm not mad at you because having been myself under the slavery of unions I know that it can dehumanize people and lead them to act irrationally. I hope for your sake that one day you will develop a skill set that has enough value by itself that there will be a good place for you on the market and that you won't need a bunch of phony left-wingers lemmings to come and defend your job; until then you may want to tone down on the name calling because it has the unfortunate side effect of putting the spotlight on the lack of content in your comments.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    23. Re:Love it by ryanov · · Score: 1

      Uh, no.

      ignorant
      adjective
      1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
      2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
      3. uninformed; unaware.
      4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

      That would be describing your comments. It is not painting you with a broad brush, it is painting you with whatever size brush one needs to use to just hit you.

    24. Re:Love it by lucm · · Score: 1

      Uh, no.

      ignorant
      adjective
      1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
      2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
      3. uninformed; unaware.
      4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

      That would be describing your comments. It is not painting you with a broad brush, it is painting you with whatever size brush one needs to use to just hit you.

      Again with the name calling. Tsk tsk. So many words, so little content.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
  4. No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They inherited a system that "lost" months/years worth of emails during the Bush administration. Of course it all sucked, it was designed to.

    1. Re:No surprise by Vladius · · Score: 2

      Working as intended...

    2. Re:No surprise by rhook · · Score: 1

      Big surprise. The contract (like all government contracts) went to the lowest bidder and they surely cut corners.

    3. Re:No surprise by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Of course it all sucked, it was designed to.

      It wasn't originally designed to suck, but when you refuse to spend money on infrastructure improvements,
      you end up spending your time putting out fires instead of making improvements.

      This applies equally to computer hardware/networks as it does to our highway/bridge, electrical, and water infrastructures.
      FFS, there are critical metal pipes in DC's water distribution network that date back 150 years to Lincoln.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:No surprise by Sir_Sri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well and as I have learned the hard way lately, if it's going to cost 500k per year to run IT for a couple of hundred employee outfit when it's government money, someone will complain. When I did private sector stuff the biggest issue was downtime, a million dollars, no problem if that means good uptime. I used to go into insurance companies and banks at 4pm, the regular staff left at 5 -5:30, if it wasn't ready to go the next day by 8 or 9am you were in seriously trouble. In government it's all about how much money they have to explain to some jackass who wants to make political hay out of it.

      The way I count it from http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/graphics/2006stafflistsalary.html the white house has about 400 employees. Figure 350k a year in desktop computers alone, for IT staff, another couple of hundred K in 'mobile' and accessory devices, ancillary office equipment you could easily be looking at 1.5 million or for just the non classified IT stuff. That isn't, in the grand scheme of things, a lot of money, but you have to know that whomever isn't in charge is going to want to curtail that spending, because it's 'wasteful'.

      (how you count IT spending can vary wildly. When you're up into that many people you have a lot of dedicated IT staff in various sub groups who may or may not count towards the total and so on). On top of the mess that would be trying to deal with 400 spoiled brats who want everything their way (I'm sorry, executives who want to maximize their productivity), you have to try and plug into everything else in government and have the secured computers/networks as well. That isn't cheap.

    5. Re:No surprise by FairAndHateful · · Score: 1

      It wasn't originally designed to suck, but when you refuse to spend money on infrastructure improvements, you end up spending your time putting out fires instead of making improvements.

      Ding ding ding!!!!

      I think in Slashdotspeak, I should say "^This", and HARD.

    6. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saying "This" is what twelve year old girls do when they see a new shiny on face-plant.

    7. Re:No surprise by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just a tip, if you ever want people (outside of a small echochamber) to take you seriously, you may want to grow up and stop referring to GW Bush as "Dubyah"-- its about as mature as calling Microsoft M$, or someone you dont like a doo-doo head.

    8. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You tell him Lord Lamecat.

    9. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meh, banks and stock markets are easy. Casinos on the other hand don't stop running. And there's sometimes a worry that the Casino Boss might resort to more traditional means of applying pressure on you. Deep sea pressure.

    10. Re:No surprise by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      It's not that they refused, but it's a typical government problem. You think corporations have budget problems wait until you see the government. Everything is cut to bone. If it still works then there's no reason to upgrade, and if it doesn't work well maybe you can share with someone. Even if it might cost more to maintain, that's a person cost and not a capital expenditure.

    11. Re:No surprise by ryanov · · Score: 1

      You say this as if it is stupid, when surely you know it is the faux outrage from taxpayers that causes this shit.

    12. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ^This!

    13. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I lived in DC for twenty years. I can personally attest to the decrepitude of the water system. One night, returning from drinks w/ friends, witnessed a man-hole cover blown twenty feet into the air by a HUMONGOUS stream of water from a break in an apparently GIGANTIC underground pipe. HUGE the stream of water was. And loud. And with considerable force.

      That break went on and on overnight and flooded a LOT of K Street undergound garages. Seems the pipe was installed about Civil War era, and not looked at since.

      Was funny though :-)

    14. Re:No surprise by Uberbah · · Score: 0

      Just a tip, some pot and prunes might help you lighten up and get that stick out of your ass.

      Presidents get called nicknames - Jack, Gipper, Dubbya, Willie, Barry - this and other shocking developments at 11.

    15. Re:No surprise by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      How about calling him junior, also technically incorrect, though both unambiguously refer to him, while "Bush" is ambiguous, and the other possible unambiguous names are longer and inconvenient.

    16. Re:No surprise by Mabhatter · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Why should we take them seriously at all? The country was in the middle of a war and their party groomed no leader to continue it. The man in the VP chair was physically incapable of doing the job of a President on an ongoing basis should the task have been required... The guy even has artificial organs now.. Just like a "Darth". That President "walked away" from the job when the biggest ACTUAL CRISIS occurred in the last 30 years.

      The MAN failed to hold his office in order to the end. The PARTY failed to plan for the financial and military good of the country. And left us more in Debt than Regan did to win the Cold War.

      The previous guy had 16 years of Executive Branch experience when all hell broke loose.. The new guy had ZERO and at least has done a passable job walking into the middle of things. Which side had 6 years of uncontested control? Which side failed to run a ship that could endure the storm? Remember that in November and NEVER FORGET it.

    17. Re:No surprise by tburkhol · · Score: 2

      Well and as I have learned the hard way lately, if it's going to cost 500k per year to run IT for a couple of hundred employee outfit when it's government money, someone will complain.

      It's more general than that: When it's government money, no matter how much, someone will complain.

      There is always some better way to spend a government dollar, and if there isn't then government shouldn't have collected it in the first place. Government is the only activity where we all get to sit back and feel/act like the PHB, and most of us will happily cut any function that doesn't directly benefit us, personally. That means government salaries are too high, almost by definition. Meanwhile, no one worries if private industries, like phone or electric companies, offer million-dollar bonuses. You can't buy your city councilman a cup of coffee without someone thinking it's quid-pro-quo, but I can't imagine an industry trade show without at least one open-bar event.

      This is why government sucks. It is run by the cheapest, most arbitrary minds within the general public. People who would be rapidly identified as toxic employees can raise enough media furor to force policy. People who can not grasp the concept that you have to reward talented people to retain them are allowed to dominate budget and salary decisions.

    18. Re:No surprise by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      To be fair they probably built the best the could .. For 2001... And then left it there. 5-6 years out of an IT system is about normal. The last Two years was very clearly in "let it rot" mode... Losing stuff was a feature at that point.

      But It's politics, there's no need to upgrade the office for the NEXT GUY. They will want new stuff.. And you can "blame" them for wasting money next election!

    19. Re:No surprise by coinreturn · · Score: 1

      Commenting to undo incorrect mod. Sorry.

    20. Re:No surprise by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 1

      Well, let's be clear... I believe the "lost" data was the result of a choice to change retention policies and start wiping tapes... Which was probably illegal, but without the tapes, or an outlook OST file somebody finds in a closet from one of Cheneys' lickspittles' laptops, there's no way to prove a crime. Which sucks, because... I mean, come on... We all know there was a crime here.

      --
      Who did what now?
    21. Re:No surprise by Killjoy_NL · · Score: 1

      Thank you, that is what people need to know coming november indeed.
      Too bad I can't vote in your country.

      --
      This is the sig that says NI (again)
    22. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a US citizen I was hood winked by the utilities of all flavors. I thought my price for services was great because the had to do upkeep of the infrastructure that provided their bread and butter. Then when it was all crumbling I find out they never were and I have to foot the bill for it again.

      Now i only feel ripped off and abused by those utilities and a government who let it happen.

      My water bill comes with a minimum charge. It is not billed as if you use to little water you get x bill any way, It gets charged in addition to any bill you have incurred
      Johnson water Queen Creek Arizona. Avoid that place like the plague.

      Add that to a Arizona summer AC bill with double pane windows without the gas subdivision with newspaper insulation not spray foam dense.
      And you have made by utilities to screw you construction.

      No solar hot water laws in Arizona how much were politicians paid to stop that from being mandatory with new builds.

      Gas prices that benefit oil companies that I subsidize. Record profit every quarter.
      Food prices so high that every poor person will need food stamps no other way.

      America how it became number zero.

    23. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you ever want people (outside of a small echochamber) to take you seriously, you may want to grow up and stop referring to GW Bush as "Dubyah"-- its about as mature as calling Microsoft M$, or someone you dont like a doo-doo head.

      ...or calling yourself "LordLimecat?"

    24. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there are critical metal pipes in DC's water distribution network that date back 150 years to Lincoln.

      There isn't anything inherently wrong with that. A properly designed pipe system will easily last 100+ years. The way you said it makes it sound like simply being old means it must not work.

    25. Re:No surprise by tomhath · · Score: 2, Informative

      he country was in the middle of a war and their party groomed no leader to continue it.

      Still the case

      Which side had 6 years of uncontested control?

      Neither

      Which side failed to run a ship that could endure the storm?

      Both

    26. Re:No surprise by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Which side had 6 years of uncontested control?

      There is only one side, and it has has uncontested control for at least 30 years now.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    27. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He called himself "Dubya".

      Wait, I suppose that proves it's immature...

    28. Re:No surprise by noh8rz3 · · Score: 0

      omg that's so funny. spit take! chortle!

    29. Re:No surprise by tomhath · · Score: 1

      Do you refer to our current President as "Barry"? Because that's what he called himself...

    30. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about G-Dubs?

    31. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just the opposite here

      When I was with the state health dept, keeping the email/calendar system up was paramount. No expense spared. If that ever went down it was all-hands no matter what, and I could expect a call from the state IT director within fifteen minutes if the problem wasn't resolved. Email down for six hours? Heads rolled and I saw it happen.

      Cut to 2012 and I now work for the world's largest (mumble)er. Email and uptime are never spoken in the same sentence. We moved from Exchange to Domino to Gmail with losses every time and no one cared. When (not if) the email servers go down everyone just shrugs and takes a long lunch. There is no budget for a decent system and convincing corporate, even corporate IT, that uptime is important is a lost cause.

      There is no backbone in corporate America, but the government is run with an iron fist.

    32. Re:No surprise by medcalf · · Score: 1

      Lots of people believe lots of things. Got anything better than faith to go on?

      --
      -- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
    33. Re:No surprise by metamatic · · Score: 1

      It wasn't originally designed to suck, but when you refuse to spend money on infrastructure improvements,
      you end up spending your time putting out fires instead of making improvements.

      The Bush administration did spend money, though. They ripped out a working IBM Lotus Notes solution and replaced it with Microsoft Exchange.

      It's not like the broken Bush administration e-mail system was something they inherited from a previous administration. It's something they deliberately chose to spend money to install.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    34. Re:No surprise by omnichad · · Score: 1

      One would guess that pipes that old might have a high lead content.

    35. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, look at the childish reaction it provoked in you. I, for one, hope he continues using the term.

    36. Re:No surprise by HereIAmJH · · Score: 1

      That would be Slick Willie, or Bubba. It was intended to be derogatory. And if you are a little older than the average Slashdotter, you will remember "Tricky Dick" Nixon. Poor Jimmy was just "The Peanut Farmer".

      Of course, there's a Wikipedia page for that.

      --
      Another day, another update to a Google android app.
    37. Re:No surprise by HereIAmJH · · Score: 1

      But It's politics, there's no need to upgrade the office for the NEXT GUY.

      You're making the assumption that the Whitehouse doesn't have a professional, apolitical, IT staff. The building is maintained by the GSA, the maintenance and janitorial staff isn't changed at the whim of an incoming president. The same for the kitchen staff. Why would the IT staff change from administration to administration?

      --
      Another day, another update to a Google android app.
    38. Re:No surprise by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      None of which chances the fact that Mz Manners here needs a hefty dose of Colon Blow. And hey, that's on Wikipedia as well.

    39. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair they probably built the best the could .. For 2001... And then left it there. 5-6 years out of an IT system is about normal. The last Two years was very clearly in "let it rot" mode... Losing stuff was a feature at that point.

      But It's politics, there's no need to upgrade the office for the NEXT GUY. They will want new stuff.. And you can "blame" them for wasting money next election!

      To be fair they probably built the best the could .. For 2001... And then left it there. 5-6 years out of an IT system is about normal. The last Two years was very clearly in "let it rot" mode

      Would that were true.
      I imagine some bright spark will find out.

      The fact remains that his brother had a computer firm, probably a crap one but none the less...
      Then there was all the sleazy crap they got up to with their previous companies from sweeteners to oil.
      The burk was never at his office so nobody would have had much time to tell him anything -not that he would have shown interest if they had.

      At least that's the picture I got of him.

      He was an arse on a stick.

       

    40. Re:No surprise by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      That might go some way to explain the rampant stupidity in the area.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    41. Re:No surprise by ConceptJunkie · · Score: 1

      At least he or she didn't call the President "Shrub". That was the go-to word for people with room-temperature IQs who thought it made them sound clever.

      And "LordLimecat" is an awesome handle. I assume you are rarely amused.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
    42. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Track record and reputation?

    43. Re:No surprise by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      And those nicknames help me differentiate right off the bat which comments are likely to be insightful, and which are likely to be immature rants by politically ignorant armchair commentators.

    44. Re:No surprise by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      G-Dubs is acceptable simply because its fun to say.

    45. Re:No surprise by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      For those who think Im upset or shaken that someone wants to be denigrating towards a former president, Im not. Im just pointing out that when people talk like that, theyre not being clever; despite what a small niche might tell them, it doesnt grant their position a lot of credibility.

      Hes free to keep talking like that, if he wants, its just unlikely that people (especially in the real world) will take him seriously. If my comment can get him to grow up and start contributing, great! If not, well, the internet already has loads of immaturity and ignorance, a little more wont sink the ship.

    46. Re:No surprise by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      My level of amusement rarely registers on the meter, except when I am called "LordLamecat". For whatever reason, that DOES leave me amused.

    47. Re:No surprise by kaatochacha · · Score: 1

      bravo sir, bravo.

    48. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, why shouldn't I?

    49. Re:No surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the losing information was in the category of ... you know what. Early in his presidency, Bush used to directly answer e-mails but was later advised by his staff not to, possibility because deniability can be built in.

      OK

  5. Appropriate by sixtyeight · · Score: 3, Funny

    Over 82% of the White House's technology had reached its end of life. Desktops, for instance, still had floppy disk drives ...

    Considering the sort of people who are using these machines, it seems almost appropriate somehow.

    Maybe keeping them technologically underpowered is actually a good thing. Those crafty, crafty White House IT gurus.

    --
    The Wolfpack Project: BitCoin + Crowdfunding = Political Accountability
    1. Re:Appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's a bad idea. Staffer (quite possibly high-ranking) comes in and gets sat at some sad slow old desktop -- before the end of the day they'll be working from their own phone/tablet/laptop "to get things done".

      These people cost too much to delay. IT's job is to issue them new secure and familiar hardware the moment their butts hit the chair. You want as close to a seamless transition as possible. It's not cheap, but it's way cheaper than delays that far up the pyramid. We've got important shit we need them to take care of.

    2. Re:Appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe keeping them technologically underpowered is actually a good thing. Those crafty, crafty White House IT

      Naa, they just moved everything to the cloud & outsourced to India...

    3. Re:Appropriate by retchdog · · Score: 1

      i think you missed the point. recall that a significant portion of slashdot would opt to abolish the federal government entirely.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    4. Re:Appropriate by wvmarle · · Score: 2

      Besides, in an environment like the White House, I think it's more than just a good idea to keep a few PC's with working floppy drives at hand. Preferably down to 8" drives. Just in case you need to read some long-archived file, that has never been put on a more modern medium.

    5. Re:Appropriate by scdeimos · · Score: 1

      You laugh, but I recently had to find a working 5 1/4" disk drive and an old linux distro (modern ones don't support them any more) to recover files from a floppy disk for an astronomy society.

    6. Re:Appropriate by ryanov · · Score: 1

      What was removed that took out support? I'd think floppy controllers are still supported -- was there something special about those drives vs. current drives?

    7. Re:Appropriate by Mabhatter · · Score: 1

      To be fair Bush took office in 2001 so that was probably needed... They just never upgraded anything after that.

    8. Re:Appropriate by jimicus · · Score: 1

      IIRC the controller had to do something slightly different to talk to a 5.25" drive. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if that something doesn't function on a modern controller and/or it requires specific software support that's suffered bit rot in a modern Linux kernel because nobody uses it.

    9. Re:Appropriate by ffgandalf · · Score: 1

      For regular wordproccessing and internet you don't need powerful machines. It makes sense to not upgrade if it works for those operations. All the computers at my work have floppies. (Even the CAD computer)

    10. Re:Appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My 3.5" floppy still works with Fedora 16... you may have to load the driver manually though: modprobe floppy (as root)

    11. Re:Appropriate by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

      I'd think floppy controllers are still supported

      Maybe some 3.5" controllers are (introduced in 1986). But 5 1/4 are a good bit older (introduced in 1976).

  6. old PCs? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But there are receipts for new computers every year? Obviously the Obama administration doesn't appreciate a no-bid contract.

  7. OMB IT has their hands tied. by gimmebeer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The problem is the procurement process. It takes a hell of a long time to get IT resources ordered, and often by the time they are actually put into service half of their warranty life-time has expired. It has nothing to do with a lack of knowledge on the OMB IT front, it's got everything to do with the red tape they have to cut through to make anything happen.

    1. Re:OMB IT has their hands tied. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

      Well it sounds like a CIO to manage and streamline the procurement process is what is needed and well overdue. Obama did the right thing as past presidents were old and out to lunch in terms of technology.

      If they need to check for spyware crap and security then set a budget with interns providing the wiping of the hard drives 7 times with an IT department to provide the encryption and come up with procedures to retire and fix PCS and so on.

      I would think a job as important as the executive branch would be important enough. If I were president a 2% downtime would have someone's head on the block let alone a 23% downtime.

      This is coming from someone who is fairly conservative I may add too. This is one cost that is needed

    2. Re:OMB IT has their hands tied. by gimmebeer · · Score: 1

      I agree with you completely. The current CIO probably did crap his pants when he saw the state of the OMB networks in 2008 and realized what he had gotten himself into. But, interns are generally not the ones you want handling systems, and that's really not what they're used for in the WH environment. Everyone in that environment tends to think they are too good for any kind of menial work.

    3. Re:OMB IT has their hands tied. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      there were 30+ individuals working there who could all have afforded to buy new pc's for everyone in the "building".

      someone elses problem field in full effect if you're giving a floppy pc to someone who's expenses are 500x more than the price of a decent modern computer.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    4. Re:OMB IT has their hands tied. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where the hell did you come up with this "interesting" information?

      Government procurement process typically operates on a 4 year warranty life-cycle. Do you really think it takes 4 years from the date of order to the day they are set up?

    5. Re:OMB IT has their hands tied. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems like you've never worked for a large organization (both government and corporations have the same problem). There are rules designed to save money. The voters and hence the legislature thinks the every penny spent is a waste, so they create huge books of rules to those pennies. So it cost $50 to buy a $5 item, because you need to prove to five people in three departments you really need that $5 item. PCs are even worse. At one point we couldn't even buy one, because they were considered a waste of money. I remember writing letters explaining that such and such a server wouldn't be used for word processing. The system is all about saving a penny even if it costs a dollar.

    6. Re:OMB IT has their hands tied. by Amouth · · Score: 1

      See i'm most surprised that being a position of the president is commander-in-chief that the pentagon isn't in charge of the White House computers and systems.

      these are not things that should be changing with each administration.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    7. Re:OMB IT has their hands tied. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A canny manager factors this sort of lag into his deployment when planning tech refresh. It's just lead time. Be it suppliers or bureacracts, lead time is something we deal with daily.

    8. Re:OMB IT has their hands tied. by medcalf · · Score: 1

      The Pentagon (well, a specific part of it) is in charge of the classified side. This article is talking about the unclassified side. And the CIO is the only position in that part of the organization (well, along with his boss and up from there) that really changes with the administration. All the normal OCIO people are either civil service or contractors, and they span administrations.

      --
      -- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
    9. Re:OMB IT has their hands tied. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like the big problem of conservatism: You always know what's NECESSARY in your own field... you know, to do the things you just know are necessary.

      Investment in logistical infrastructure is important, i agree... but i KNOW that's a value judgement on our collective parts. If you don't implicitly agree with it for whatever reason (say you are a hardline fiscal conservative who keeps all their wealth in bullion and gems, or a radical hippie who thinks computers are an affront to nature)... well, after not much interpertation, it tends to come across as "i know better than you about everything and the things you think are important just aren't".

  8. Indication of Government Ability? by BoRegardless · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Governments have a hard time keeping up. Doesn't matter what they do. Military might be an exception only since they spend so much.

    And yet...governments want us to believe, yes I say believe that they offer solutions for every problem that ails ye in River City...because they KNOW what is best for you.

    To quote George Dyson: unpredictability means you can never have a complete digital dictatorship with one government or company controlling our digital lives—not because of politics but because of mathematics. There will always be codes that do unpredictable things.

    And by corollary, there are forces exerted by individuals and corporations and other countries that counter the forces of any government.

    http://www.wired.com/magazine/2012/02/ff_dysonqa/2/

    1. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

      The DOD still standardizes on IE 6 from what I am told.

      It is not cutting edge at all.

      Obama's staff at least did a WTF and quickly hired the first CIO to clear the red tape. True he was not a good CIO, but someone was needed. It is unacceptable to have email down PERIOD at such an important job. The president's job is the most important in the world and any loss of email or downtime when WW3 starts or something unrelated is unacceptable. In the private sector downtime is measured by costs with employees salary x time of outage.

        As information is needed rapidly the whiteshouse should have the most advanced technology second only to the DOD and IT needs to be involved.

      Maybe Bush was out to lunch which is not surprising but if I were president I would be flipping the second email would go down for more than a few seconds as I know my staff needs up to the second information to do their jobs.

    2. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by v1 · · Score: 2

      Maybe Bush was out to lunch which is not surprising

      Consider other people his age in that year. 2/3 of them didn't USE email. Many of us had parent that were that age at that time and know what it's like dealing with "old people that refuse to move out of the stone age".

      It would not surprise me in the least to hear that Bush1 (or Bush2 for that matter) never opened email, ever, and got his information on dead tree and in meetings. "Email's down? is that bad?"

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    3. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by sco08y · · Score: 4, Funny

      The DOD still standardizes on IE 6 from what I am told.

      The different services have their own IT departments; they even have their own networks, NIPR and SIPR are just two of many. Not sure about the DOD proper, but even the Army is phasing out IE 6 and XP. I'm pretty sure the Air Force and Navy are mostly on Win 7, and the Marines got some new brightly colored rocks with sparkly beads.

    4. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by medcalf · · Score: 1

      Um, there were CIOs for the EOP before Brook Colangelo.

      --
      -- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
    5. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Huge_UID · · Score: 1

      The Navy is mostly on XP & IE7.

    6. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by kenh · · Score: 1

      I do not believe the Oval Office has had a computer installed in it. Ever. If I'm not mistaken it is an even bigger deal than the Presidential Blackberry - it could be argued that every page POTUS surfed would be recorded and archived forever...

      Do you really want your President to sit around wondering why his browser is frozen?

      --
      Ken
    7. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by ryanov · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh SHUT up.

      The reason government can't get anything done, generally, is there's always some jackass out there questioning whether a thing is needed because it happens not to be exactly what they want, or why workers cost anything at all since their life is in the shitter so why should a government employee make money either?

      There is a significant interest in this country in starving government, and then mocking it for under-performing. That's a combination of arguments only an imbecile would make.

    8. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The Marine Corps is migrating to Windows 7 and Server 2008 R2. They are providing an in-house solution because the joint Navy Marine Corps Intranet (NMCI) wasn't working well for the MC part.

    9. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by MimeticLie · · Score: 1

      tightly regulated

      Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh.

    10. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you were to print it out, the federal regulationso on banking would fill, entirely, the avereage coat closet. It's incredibly regulated.

    11. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Enry · · Score: 2

      Turn off the projector, son.

      Nobody of any consequence in the Democratic Party has said that Capitalism has failed in general. Parts of the organizations that make up the model have certainly failed, but capitalism as a concept and economic model works fine provided everyone plays fairly.

    12. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marines got some new brightly colored rocks with sparkly beads.

      Oh huh, they're using iPads?

    13. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by MimeticLie · · Score: 2

      Volume doesn't translate to quality. Between regulatory capture, dismantling Glass-Steagall, and companies "shopping" for the regulatory office least capable of keeping an eye on them, the financial industry has been dangerously unregulated for years. When your entire industry is failing and essentially bringing down the global economy, you are not "tightly regulated".

    14. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by BVis · · Score: 2

      What's your point? Banking is a complicated industry, made more complicated every year by greedheads who want to separate the people who do actual work from their money as shadily as possible, so it can't come back to bite them. The current financial situation the country finds itself in is nearly directly attributable to a lack of oversight. I'm not in favor of regulation for its own sake, but for goodness' sake, let's not also have lack of regulation for its own sake.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    15. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by krept · · Score: 1

      http://imgflip.com/memes/templates/futurama-fry.jpg
      Not sure if modded funny because of the sad lack of technology --
      Or there is a hidden joke in there somewhere that I'm missing

      --
      None of us know everything. Therefore we're all naïve.
    16. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Govt spend is over 40% of GDP and you think that is starving?

    17. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The DOD still standardizes on IE 6 from what I am told.

      Well that's not terrifying at all...

    18. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He was making a joke about how the Marines always have vastly inferior logistics compared to the rest of the US military. They have to make do with the brightly colored rocks.

    19. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Volume doesn't translate to quality.

      He didn't say it was. It's support for his argument that it's highly/tightly/extremely regulated, doesn't even faintly resemble deregulation, and therefore shouldn't be used as an example of deregulation's failings. If it were deregulated, then it would have (approximately) zero closets full of printed regulations, rather than one.

      If you want to make a case that two closets full of printed regulation might be better than zero closets, you could make a case. That's not necessarily insane. But please don't say we recently tried zero and that it resulted in a failure.

      ..the financial industry has been dangerously unregulated for years

      I don't think "unregulated" nor "tightly regulated" means what you think they means; those are words used to describe volume, complexity, barriers to entry, etc. Perhaps you meant the financial industry was "misregulated" or "poorly regulated" or "unwisely regulated" and you would have a damn compelling case for that. But please don't say unregulated; it's just not true.

      [This is not a Godwin!] The Nazis had tight regulations on civil liberties, for example. They did not have a laissez-faire attitude, or a lack of laws, regarding Jews. The Nazis can be used as an example of a spectacular failure, but not a failure caused by lack of racial regulation.

    20. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There is a significant interest in this country in starving government, and then mocking it for under-performing. That's a combination of arguments only an imbecile would make.

      You're lucky. In Canada, those guys are the ones *running* the government.

      Minister bans/forbids opposition MP (a Nobel prize winner!) from attending a climate conference. (Traditionally not only are they given the credentials to attend, but gov&opp go together as a group)

      Shortly after the conference, the same minister mocks the MP for not attending the conference (that he basically banned her from).

    21. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With a corporate history of losing, what else could the Dumbya do but lay a large crapfest in the Whut Hoes

    22. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by ryanov · · Score: 1

      If you've seen the news, I'm not luckier over here.

    23. Re:Indication of Government Ability? by ryanov · · Score: 1

      Pipe down and let the adults talk.

  9. You get what you pay for by forgottenusername · · Score: 2

    Too bad we probably paid billions for such crappy infra.

    1. Re:You get what you pay for by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If a system is end of life and dies can you say it was too bad or crappy without knowing how long it was kept running?

      Everything has a shelf life and must be either upgraded or replaced eventually. Even the Large Hadron Collider is nothing more than a replacement of the Large Electron–Positron Collider before it which reached the end of its useful life. I had a similar discussion with an engineer at the industrial plant I work it. We have a vibration monitoring system which died and needed replacing, and he also called the system "crap." For some perspective the system was obsolete in 1995. The two subsequent models are now also obsolete yet this thing has been humming away just fine for 17 after the vendor stopped supporting it.

      Yet someone called it crap.

    2. Re:You get what you pay for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's fair to call something crap if although it still serves a purpose, the use and maintenance of it is complicated by its age. For instance, I've got stacks of zip disks that certainly did their job many years ago, yet I would definitely call them crap because the only drive I still have uses SCSI and I don't have any computers with SCSI ports anymore. Not to mention they are incredibly slow compared to the stack of portable external hard drives now on my desk.

    3. Re:You get what you pay for by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I can simply not subscribe to this view. Do we call former record holders crap because their records got broken? What about you when you're 90 and your knees can barely support your weight, how would you feel when society applies a label to you for your current worth, completely ignoring what achievements you may have had in the past?

      Just because something is obsolete does not make it crap. The telegraph is "crap" by your standards, yet it brought communication to the world. Time should not change that.

  10. Floppy Drives! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's madness! Everyone knows that the floppy drive dictates the speed, quality, and age of the computer!

    1. Re:Floppy Drives! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it seems to me most Windows computers up until very recently came with floppy drives by default.

      Having a floppy drive is not an indication that a computer is out of date - unless that's the only drive type the computer has.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Floppy Drives! by INeededALogin · · Score: 2

      Yeah, it seems to me most Windows computers up until very recently came with floppy drives by default.

      Whats a floppy drive?

    3. Re:Floppy Drives! by Sancho · · Score: 1

      I want to say most vendors stopped shipping with floppy drives by default around 2003. Presumably there was a hardware refresh between 2003 and 2009. It seems likely, then, that the inclusion of the floppy means that the IT person specifically included floppies.

      The alternative--that there wasn't a refresh between 2003 and 2009--is, in fact, a bit sad. Six years is a pretty long time for computers, and their value increased considerably throughout last decade.

      An interested person could probably file a FOIA request to find out for sure, of course.

    4. Re:Floppy Drives! by FoolishOwl · · Score: 1

      They've been obsolete for years.

      From Wikipedia:

      In February 2003, Dell announced floppy drives would no longer be pre-installed on Dell Dimension home computers, although still available as a selectable option and purchasable as an aftermarket OEM add-on. On 29 January 2007, PC World stated that only 2% of the computers they sold contained built-in floppy disk drives; once present stocks were exhausted, no more standard floppies would be sold. In 2009, Hewlett-Packard stopped supplying standard floppy drives on business desktops.

    5. Re:Floppy Drives! by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it seems to me most Windows computers up until very recently came with floppy drives by default.

      Having a floppy drive is not an indication that a computer is out of date - unless that's the only drive type the computer has.

      Desktops maybe. Laptops though... I don't think I've seen a floppy drive standard on a laptop since the early 2000's.

    6. Re:Floppy Drives! by enemorales · · Score: 2

      Have you seen the "save" icon in some applications? A floppy drive would let you put some of those (the real thing) to read or write information into them. Amazing, ugh?

    7. Re:Floppy Drives! by kenh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      OK, perspective is called for - Obama took the White House in 2009, up until 2009 HP had floppy drives STANDARD on business desktops - so as Obama took the White House, HP was still shipping floppy drives as STANDARD.

      Yes, sitting in 2012 we can all agree that floppy drives have been obsolete for years, but in 2009 HP was still shipping them as standard.

      The note about Dell Dimensions is nice, but those are "home" computers, not "professional".

      And that 6 year-old software? I can guarantee you it was Office 2003 - sure, as Bush was preparing to leave office his staff certainly could have gone around and upgraded everyone to the latest/greatest version of office (Office 2007), but it is now 2012, and the latest version of Office on PCs is 2010 - does that have 100% market penetration, or are there a few stragglers on 2007 or even 2003?

      Maybe, like most office users at the time, the Bush White House wasn't a big fan of the ribbon interface introduced in Office 2007

      --
      Ken
    8. Re:Floppy Drives! by FoolishOwl · · Score: 1

      Yes, sitting in 2012 we can all agree that floppy drives have been obsolete for years, but in 2009 HP was still shipping them as standard.

      Not quite. In 2009, HP stopped offering standard floppy drives as an option. The Wikipedia article didn't say when they stopped including them as a standard feature.

    9. Re:Floppy Drives! by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      The note about Dell Dimensions is nice, but those are "home" computers, not "professional".

      WTF is the difference between a "home" computer and a "professional" one? If anything, I'd expect home computers to be more powerful since professionals don't generally need to play the latest games...

    10. Re:Floppy Drives! by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      The price of an professional one is higher, due to the lower amount of sponsored crapware on them.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    11. Re:Floppy Drives! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, try getting SCSI or 3rd party SATA drivers onto WinXP without a FDD...oK there's nLite but XP still has the 3rd party scsi floopy option screen

      just saying...

    12. Re:Floppy Drives! by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      The price on the professional machines is usually a bit higher but you usually get less crapware loaded by default (though this doesn't really matter for this kind of customer since they will blow away the OEM install anyway and replace it with their own image), a case designed for speed of servicing (though on the flipside they are usually more propietry) and availability of "image compatible" machines for a longer period so you don't have to update your images so often.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    13. Re:Floppy Drives! by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      In the Dell lines the difference is pretty stark.

      Consumer(home) has the absolute cheapest hardware possible

      Professional(work) has standardized hardware across lines

      When you buy 30 Dimension desktops, there is no guarantee that they will come with the same hardware, even with the same configuration and date of purchase.

      When you buy 30 Optiplex/Precision, they will be exactly the same hardware for the same configuration, even if ordered a year apart.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  11. Still blaming Bush? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I have to say I got a chuckle when I got to the part about "inheriting" their IT problems. Obama "inherited" all his problems after all!

    1. Re:Still blaming Bush? by bmo · · Score: 0

      When people like you show up on Fark, it makes it easy to hit the ignore button.
      --
      BMO

    2. Re:Still blaming Bush? by INeededALogin · · Score: 2

      I have to say I got a chuckle when I got to the part about "inheriting" their IT problems. Obama "inherited" all his problems after all!

      On day 1, every problem is indeed inherited. This is a fact. A big difference for me is that Obama is actually fixing issues.... especially in the executive branch

      Bush's Whitehouse.gov
      Obama's Whitehouse.gov

      The Obama version is very nice IMHO.

    3. Re:Still blaming Bush? by kenh · · Score: 1

      I have to say I got a chuckle when I got to the part about "inheriting" their IT problems. Obama "inherited" all his problems after all!

      Let's be clear on one thing - then-Senator Obama went around the country, gave countless speeches, shook innumerable hands, and raised a record amount of campaign contributions to take on these very same problems he now blames the prior administration for... He asked for the job - he didn't draw the short straw, and as a sitting U.S. Senator at the time, he was in the best position to know exactly what he was getting into.

      The Flying Fickle Finger of Fate didn't pull him out of a crowd - he stood on a chair and yelled "Pick Me, Pick Me! I have the answers!"

      --
      Ken
    4. Re:Still blaming Bush? by Enry · · Score: 1

      There is no AC at Fark. Probably a good thing.

  12. 'first presidential Blackberry' by cervesaebraciator · · Score: 1

    'first presidential Blackberry.'

    Perhaps also known as the last presidential Blackberry. Of course, parts of the government still favor Blackberry, but then apparently parts still like floppy drives too. With the recent /. posts on DOD Androids (not the kind that lead to Skynet comments) and the like, one wonders how much longer even this will last.

  13. As a former employee, I can only confirm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    The equipment of some government agencies I have worked for is kind of prehistoric. I you are using Windows 95 as a file server, you are in serious trouble.

  14. I so want to unload by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I used to work there, so I can't unload. Let's just say that the EOP has earned every bit of fail they've ever had. (Including the email system, which is what happens when you put brand new software on past EOL hardware against the advice of the people responsible for actually making it function.)

  15. Fixed: Indication of Government DENYability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No redundancy for their e-mail servers off the tails of ol' Bush? I wonder how many of the former president and vice president's e-mails were conveniently lost during some of these white-house e-mail outages...

  16. what if... by slashmydots · · Score: 2

    Too bad they didn't teach George W Bush about IT stuff. With how often he went to Texas to clear brush, he'd have that exchange DB backed up in 5 places, compressed properly, and on SSD RAIDs :-P

  17. Could the editor at least read the article??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course not, this is slashdot.

    Email wasn't down 23% of the time, the quote is "When it was all said and done, in the first 40 days of the administration we were down 23% of the time", referring to ALL systems, not just email.

    That said, read to the end to learn of one of the new, high-tech applications in the White House:

    "a printer dashboard to tell them when a printer was running out of toner"

    AMAZING!!!!

    Not like that is something any moron could whip together in 30 minutes with nagios,

  18. Similar situation... by CAIMLAS · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I recently took over for a staff which had been interned in their positions for the better part of a decade. Out with the old in-house staff, in with the new outsourced IT 'team'.

    I can easily see how this happens, outside procurement and ineptitude problems on the part of the previous WH IT staff. When you've got what amounts to 'institutional knowledge death', with the institution carrying on, you've got to over-staff for some time or things fall apart completely while you play catch up. With a situation where you don't understand it all, are under staffed or under skilled, you're faced with only a couple options when you come in behind the curve, with aging equipment and software: you either start replacing everything you can, as you are able, as quick as you can, or you start suffering outages. It's even worse if things are mismanaged and things are failing all around you.

    As for the claims of the article? Meh. I'm actually not that impressed by his claims to the poitn where I think 'this is bad':

      In 2008, "floppy drives" weren't all that uncommon. I remember servicing Core machines which had floppy drives, still. We're not talking biege boxes with ISA slots here, necessarily - with a 4 year replacement schedule for desktops, floppy drives don't speak of ineptitude.

    The 80-hour-week thing means nothing. It might mean he was understaffed, or that he's a workaholic. To me, it sounds like the meaningless words of a political appointee.

    "Over 82% of the White House technology had reached end of life" means nothing. If they were on a 3-year replacement schedule for desktops and they had 10/100 switching, I can easily see where you'd come to that number.

    He had one "data center", with no redundancy. A bit of a contradiction, yeah? This is made somewhat less impressive by the fact that this administration, in particular, was a bunch of Nancys when they came in with "oh woes, look at this mess", quite obviously overstating things for dramatic media effect.

    "Our email servers went down for 21 hours" isn't a statement of disaster, it's a statement of ineptitude. If they got the mail servers back up, with the data intact, the problem wasn't with the environment but the people involved (or the lack of staffing). His BB starting to have mail incoming suggests a reinstall wasn't required, so safe to say BES was OK, so who knows what the real 'problem' was which caused a day of outage...

    Sorry, I've got a very thin skin when it comes to management making any sort of technical claim. They're usually about 50% lie, and of the remaining 50% truth, only about 1/5th of that is factual with the rest being augmented by misunderstanding, disillusions of grandeur, and over-simplification to pull up the full 100%. Realize that a) this is a political appointee talking, b) it's a seemingly non-technical manager (he's up in his datacenter, lookin' for redundancy!), and c) this is the government we're talking about, after all. Anyone who's had any dealings with them on a technical level realizes that 'setbacks' and 'shortcomings' or 'difficult problems' or the like are (probably!) due to ineptitude. Yes, sadly, even amongst the elite (though not necessarily of their own doing - thank you bureaucratic bullshit).

    Granted, this may not have been the case when BO came to the WH and took over. They may have had previous IT staffers who stayed through the transition, but I'm guessing they did not (due to political mistrust issues). It could've been a genuine clusterfuck. Sometimes it's nothing and people cry about the sky falling as they pull down the curtain; sometimes, it really is bad. (If you understand weather patterns, you may recognize a summer storm to not be the disaster that chicken little claims...)

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    1. Re:Similar situation... by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sorry, I've got a very thin skin when it comes to management making any sort of technical claim. They're usually about 50% lie, and of the remaining 50% truth, only about 1/5th of that is factual with the rest being augmented by misunderstanding, disillusions of grandeur, and over-simplification to pull up the full 100%.

      This was the first relevant article kicked up by google:
      http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9142268/_Lost_Bush_e_mail_settlement_requires_that_White_House_reveal_IT_practices_

      The e-mail problem began in 2002 and 2003 after the White House moved from Lotus Notes to Microsoft Exchange. As it moved to the new platform, the President's IT staff also discontinued use of legacy, circa 1994, electronic management and archiving system, called Automated Records Management Systems (ARMS.) Development began on a new archiving system that ran into its own issues and wasn't implemented.

      Without an automated archiving system, the White House relied on manual processes to archive e-mails, and that's when the problems evidently began. Files were mislabeled and commingled on back-up tapes containing all types of information.

      The public didn't find out about this for years until federal prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald disclosed it in 2006 while investigating the outing of Valerie Plame.
      The Bush Jr. IT infrastructure was broken from the day they installed it and remained broken for the full 8 years he was in office.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Similar situation... by necro81 · · Score: 1

      He had one "data center", with no redundancy. A bit of a contradiction, yeah?

      No, it is not. If you care about risk mitigation and disaster recovery for mission-critical systems, one data center is not redundant, no matter how many spare parts and idled servers it has. One flood, equipment failure, or act of sabotage could bring everything to a screeching halt. If you care about keeping these systems up and running all the time (and, no matter your politics, keeping the email of the white house running is pretty damned important), you need alternate sites.

    3. Re:Similar situation... by noh8rz3 · · Score: 0

      YO DAWG, I heard you like redundancy, so I put some redundancy in your data center so servers can fail while they fail!

    4. Re:Similar situation... by Larryish · · Score: 1

      I recently took over for a staff which had been interned in their positions for the better part of a decade. Out with the old in-house staff, in with the new outsourced IT 'team'.

      More concerning teams and teamwork in general:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGFGD5pj03M

    5. Re:Similar situation... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      It could've been a genuine clusterfuck.

      The previous IT manager that "lost" the emails was in there due to family connections just as the family connections landed them a job as a Bank VP on graduation, and a work history of hopping from one sinecure to the next. I'd speculate that makes the genuine clusterfuck situation likely.

  19. Floppy drives caused 9/11 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If only Condi Rice had gotten around to the bin Laden memo, 9/11 could have been prevented. But the documents loaded too slowly for her to get to it in time.

    1. Re:Floppy drives caused 9/11 by Genda · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and the rumor about "Yellow Cake" in Iraq was a fouled up email about what Saddam had with his friends on his Birthday.

  20. What do computers do again? by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

    The intern convinced Colangelo that there was a great need for automation.

    WTF did he think computers were for before that little piece of enlightenment hit him?

    I really hope that was just some random idiot fluff from author of TFA and not an actual sentiment from someone with "Information" in their job title.

    --
    .: Semper Absurda :.
  21. I doubt.. by Jyunga · · Score: 1

    he ever touched the 'real' computers the Bush admin used.

  22. Running Outlook and Exchange by AbrasiveCat · · Score: 0

    Who else remembers the issues http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2008/04/bush-lost-e-mails.ars when the Bush's administration replaced the system, Lotus Notes, that the Clinton administration had been running with MS Outlook and Exchange. Then conveniently couldn't recover/find email messages. To give them their due, the Government Records Act does put some strong requirements on any email system being used. Its just that Exchange wasn't up to the task.

  23. Poor white peoples problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh wait....

  24. Emanuel end at the White House by G3ckoG33k · · Score: 1

    "Over 82% of the White House's technology had reached its end of life. Desktops, for instance, still had floppy disk drives, including the one Colangelo delivered to Rahm Emanuel, Obama's then chief of staff and now Mayor of Chicago."

    Rahm Emanuel has few redeeming virtues and deserved that fitting computer he got. He too had reached his end that the White House, no too soon enough, however. Floppy, Rahm? Memory? Nah...

    1. Re:Emanuel end at the White House by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      darkmany

      yes

      good

  25. end of life. by carpefishus · · Score: 1

    >> Over 82% of the White House's technology had reached its end of life. And all keyboards were missing the W.

    --
    Facts take all of the premium out of arm waving - T. Reynolds
  26. At least... by kenh · · Score: 1

    At least all the keyboards still had the "W" key!

    --
    Ken
  27. More a problem of decade than of age by Casandro · · Score: 1

    Apparently their systems are from the 1990s which was, in retrospect, the worst decade to buy any kind of IT equipment. Imagine they had some Unix system with VT100 terminals. This would have given them an easy upgrade path. They could have made simple and secure ways to remotely login, plus they could have simply replaced the system with a more modern Linux system, etc...

  28. White House IT: thumbs down by mveloso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From what I've read, there's only one firm that does White House transitions. I think it's Bechtel, but it's been so long that I've read anything about transitions that I have around a 15% confidence level in that piece of data.

    Google "white house transition" and you'll see that it's a total mess. If you want to read about it, there's info here:

    http://whitehousetransitionproject.org/

    From what little I've read, you basically get a mostly empty building (the White House). It's up to the team to build/rebuild the infrastructure...but as any operations person knows, IT infrastructure is usually way behind everything else. The general executive branch IT has been a low priority for decades. What's more important, email or setting up the phone so the president can call someone (or someone can call the president)?

    At that point, the team is probably so far behind that they're screwed continuously for the one or two terms.

    Are the guys running the systems any good? I'd ask you: how many of you could pass a background and attitude check? You think the process etc at your workplace is bad, imagine how bad it is in the Executive branch.

    That said, it might be fun...but it's probably a nightmare. "I can't print out this $15 billion dollar appropriation because the f*cking printer doesn't work!" "People in PA are starving because the email server ate all of our emails!"

    Every minute is a crisis, with everyone breathing down your neck 24/7. Does that sound like something you'd want to do for 24/7/365/4 years?

    1. Re:White House IT: thumbs down by rrossman2 · · Score: 1

      I guess the secret is to use Google Services... let them host the email, use their Calender system, Google talk, etc.
      You don't get the spiffy BES service, but the encrypted email is enough, right? Or switch to android and use TextSecure and RedPhone, problem solved (until they are cracked, although TextSecure uses AES).

      After a month or so getting that all setup, you now get to sit on a beach sipping drinks as the IT support mostly falls on someone else... issue solved!

    2. Re:White House IT: thumbs down by medcalf · · Score: 1

      That would actually be against the law. The Presidential Records Act to be precise.

      --
      -- Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong. - Dire Straits
  29. disorganized by nthwaver · · Score: 1

    Well that was a very disorganized, poorly paced retelling of what was probably an interesting talk.

  30. The current White House uses Drupal/OpenAtrium by SpzToid · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2011/02/11/

    http://developmentseed.org/blog/2011/feb/14/white-house-using-open-atrium/

    www.openatrium.com

    For civilians trying to avoid another HBGary-type SQL-injection cascading breach, building a PHP website using the Drupal framework means benefiting from the eyeballs that watch sites like whitehouse.gov, and others. These same eyeballs, and many others contribute their security patches back to drupal.org. Although I imagine their OpenAtrium groupware is behind a firewall.

    OpenAtrium is 100% free open-source server software, that reaches out really well to tables and other mobile devices too.

    --
    You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
  31. So, I'm guessing... by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

    ""In the first 40 days of President Barack Obama's administration, the White House email system was down 23% of time, according to White House CIO Brook Colangelo, the person who also delivered the 'first presidential Blackberry.' The White House IT systems inherited by the new administration were in bad shape. Over 82% of the White House's technology had reached its end of life. Desktops, for instance, still had floppy disk drives, including the one Colangelo delivered to Rahm Emanuel, Obama's then chief of staff and now Mayor of Chicago. There were no redundant email servers.""

    So......I'm guessing no Crysis 2 then? Geez. I can run it with everything cranked.

  32. I would deploy a Domino cluster by griffo · · Score: 1

    I would deploy IBM Domino like in the days of Clinton, which Bush switched to Microsoft Exchange. Reliability went downhill with that decision.
    Domino runs cheap and fast and reliable. And has always active clustering so you don't have to deal with downtime. IBM simply has a much longer track record of delivering reliable computing than Microsoft.

    1. Re:I would deploy a Domino cluster by lucm · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I would deploy IBM Domino like in the days of Clinton, which Bush switched to Microsoft Exchange. Reliability went downhill with that decision.
      Domino runs cheap and fast and reliable. And has always active clustering so you don't have to deal with downtime. IBM simply has a much longer track record of delivering reliable computing than Microsoft.

      People are not replacing Domino with Exchange because it is more reliable. They do it because *everybody* hates Lotus Notes.

      This being said, any user that has a complaint against Lotus Notes should be required to work with Groupwise for a week.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    2. Re:I would deploy a Domino cluster by Skapare · · Score: 1

      No need to waste taxpayer money with such bloat. Three instances of a Linux server with carefully configured mail server software, and offsite backups maintained over at NSA, should do the job. Hire real techies (with TSC) to maintain it.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    3. Re:I would deploy a Domino cluster by maXXwell · · Score: 2

      I would deploy IBM Domino

      A company I worked at a few years ago used Domino. I thought it was a great proof-of-concept for some future groupware product, but not ready for real-world use. It was broken in so many ways! I saved my list of Domino issues, which I've included below. This is for Domino version 7, so some of these issues may be fixed in subsequent versions. But to be this broken as recently as five years ago (and after 16 years of development, too!) is unforgivable.

      So, check out my list of issues, and decide whether this is a product you would want to deploy in your organization!

      Domino Issues:

      - Slow.

      - Spell checker with mailer is lame. Better to have MS Word-style
          spell checker.

      - When using View -> Find in view, defaults in such a way that
          deletes all entries when the user thinks they are deleting a single
          entry. Virtually impossible to undo.

      - When using View -> Find in view, can't delete individual e-mails.
          (see previous). Messages that are de-selected disappear from the view.

      - Really crappy mailbox search algorithm

      - Very weak mailbox filtering capability (compared with procmail)

      - Hard to gauge where to wrap lines when using so-called
          `Internet-Style' messages. No automatic line wrap.

      - When replying using `Internet-Style History', quotes sender
          in message envelope rather than sender in `From:' field.

      - "Show source" on e-mail message does not show message envelope.

      - Won't display HTML content of messages . . . good that it doesn't
          happen by default, but wish it were an option.

      - View -> Show -> Source doesn't work for messages with no text in
          the message body, so no way to view headers of empty spam messages.

      - Message size bears little relationship to actual content.

      - Very slow over low-bandwidth connection. Much more overhead than
          IMAP.

      - No multiple levels of undo -- can only undo last change

      - When using find, it checkmarks all found messages. Then if you
          highlight one and attempt to delete it, it delete all checked messages
          *without prompting*. And no option to undo!

      - When clicking on links in e-mail messages, unclear whether browser
          has been launched. Mouse cursor doesn't change, as it does with
          most other mail clients, unless you move it outside of the Notes window.

      - Can't sort by date/title/etc in View -> Search this View in Tech Docs

      - No Day of Week in Message. Month is numeric only.

      - Mail Search is fucked. Try:
          "Author contains Sender/Organization AND outgoing".

      - When opening mail attachments, no option to select which application
          to use.

      - When opening mail attachments, cannot open an attachment with an
          unknown extension.

      - Crashes when reporting certain messages to Symantec

      - Cannot set different chimes for incoming mail. E.g. mail going to
          group folder due to mail rule makes same chime as mail going into
          mail inbox.

      - Can't cut-and-paste into mail rules.

      - No log to see when messages are deleted by mail rules.

      - Can't respond to a message in a "meeting accepted" / "meeting
          declined" without cut-and-paste to a new memo.

      - Copying a memo from a folder to a nested folder with the same name
          causes a duplicate of the memo to appear in the original folder.
          E.g. copy something from "Sent" to "Folders->Temp->Sent".

    4. Re:I would deploy a Domino cluster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OR be a real IT setup and replace it with a robust email system not the crap that is Exchange.

      Honestly, WTF is this love affair with the steaming turd we all are forced to support? Microsoft has made it worse as each year goes by.

    5. Re:I would deploy a Domino cluster by NJRoadfan · · Score: 1

      Setting up the Notes client for a family member that was working from home was quite annoying. It gave me flashbacks to the Windows 3.1x era complete with INI files to edit.

  33. Do you Yahoo by lucm · · Score: 1

    They should follow the example of Sarah Palin and use Yahoo Mail.

    I can picture Kim Jong-un calling the helpdesk: "please add leaderofthefreeworld61@yahoo.com on my trusted recipients list, we almost initiated a nuclear holocaust because I missed an important message in my junk mail folder".

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  34. blah blah blah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    stupid Libtards, still playing Blame It On Bush

  35. Your next worst day will be... by unixisc · · Score: 1

    ... the day you find you're out of IPv4 addresses, and all your systems are not IPv6 ready, in spite of it being a government initiative to have all systems IPv6 ready by this year.

  36. Hey, my PC has a floppy drive by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 1

    Then again, it's not actually hooked up. It's in there to block a bay in the front so there isn't a big hole. (The case on this PC build is more than a few years old and I didn't have the plastic panel to block that bay and I was too cheap to actually buy one online.)

    --
    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
    1. Re:Hey, my PC has a floppy drive by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I have a couple PC's like that. Or, I did - when I last had to read a floppy it took a long time to figure out why the drive didn't work. It's hooked up now.

  37. White House must resort to Interns as work force by ciantic · · Score: 1

    My favorite part:

    This led to new initiative. There wasn't money in the IT budget to hire professional software engineers. Instead, they created a program to hire computer science savvy interns to work on the project.

    Screw the professionals, interns inherit the future even in White House.

  38. Dear "executives" by Lumpy · · Score: 1

    You HAVE TO spend money on IT infrastructure and equipment yearly. I don't care what you think, Us in IT know a shitload more about IT than you even pretend to think you know. You hired us experts, why the hell don't you let us do our job?

    Honestly, the White house is a small scale IT setup, why the hell dont they have a 2 year replacement on everything there? IT could be done for less than the floor cleaning expenses they have yearly.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  39. white houses sets example on exploiting interns by steve.cri · · Score: 0

    There wasn't money in the IT budget to hire professional software engineers. Instead, they created a program to hire computer science savvy interns to work on the project.

    There's not much to comment on that quote, really. I'm certainly not one of those USA-haters, but as an IT professional, when I read such a thing, I sincerely hope their whole intern-built systems crash on them in the worst possible moment. The president of the (probably still) most powerful nation on earth has its IT done by interns? What kind of example does that set? They deserve a lesson for that.

  40. Dubya by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." —second presidential debate, St. Louis, Mo., Oct. 8, 2004

  41. The current administration... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... shows the same level of competence administering its IT operation as it does running the country.

  42. Floppy - Take Two by dcw3 · · Score: 1

    Anyone who's spent significant time working around the federal government knows that they keep old equipment around much longer than anyone would expect. Simple example, In the '80s, I worked on an Air Force system that still had a punch card reader. It's not uncommon to find this kind of silliness even today. Reminds me of the cassette player on my new '03 Infiniti...needed that like tits on a bull.

    --
    Just another day in Paradise
    1. Re:Floppy - Take Two by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      {whispers} You do know that some of those machines with floppy discs are Nextstations?{/whispers}

  43. 3-4 year cycle? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't believe corporate America is still on a 3-4 year replacement cycle.

    I own a small (~$2M/year) IT business in Philadelphia (posting AC because I don't want it to be a slashvertisement), and we use a 7 year replacement cycle for Desktops. How do we do it? We don't buy piece of shit proprietary desktops from Dell. We build our own workstations out of commodity hardware that can actually be upgraded as software gets more bloated.

    Nothing architecturally amazing happens in 3 years that justifies a magical need for a new PC. The only thing that happens in 3 years is that MS comes out with a new version of Office or there some new engineering tool that needs more RAM.

    Worse comes to worst, we have a video production company that needs bigger hard drives. No problem. You don't have to replace a PC to get more hard disk space.

    I built my office workstation in 2005. It's an AMD Socket 939 dual-core machine with 4GB of DDR. It is 100% sufficient for everything I need a PC for. The only thing that has changed is the addition of more RAM and an upgrade to Windows 7. I haven't come remotely close to filling up the original 320GB hard disk.

    This whole notion of the 3 year replacement cycle was invented by "Dell partner" IT outsourcing firms to sell more PCs and get more kickbacks from Dell. That's all there is to it. We have Dell people annoying us almost every month it seems offering us commissions, kickbacks, and bribes to sell their garbage to our clients, advertising the "revenue-generating" 3 year replacement cycle.

    It's ludicrous.

    1. Re:3-4 year cycle? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi, I'm in corporate America. I make gadgets that you can buy at Best Buy, Newegg, and even Walmart. In 2008, cross-compiling 10MB of binaries for an ARM9 on a Core2 Duo 2.2GHz, 2GB RAM, 120GB HD desktop took over an hour. Some people here were building 128MB system images for high-end gadgets, they got Core2Quad 2.4GHz, 4GB RAM, 120GB HD machines. Those machines could perform a clean build in about four hours.

      Over time, the features and complexity of our software increased, and the Core2Duo machines were just too underpowered. Devices that ran with 10MB of software were no more, the lowest end devices needed 20MB of software. High end devices went from 128MB images to 256MB images. The Core2Quads were even being taxed; its silly to have to spend a whole day waiting for a build.

      Now we have i7 3GHz machines with 8GB RAM, 128GB SSDs, and 500GB HDs that are replacing all of the old workstations. Build times have dropped by 90% in some cases.

      At $OLD_DAYJOB, we did a lot of structural dynamics and CFD simulations. We bought new top of the line machines every two years. Given that the engineering time was $100/hr/engineer, these machines paid for themselves quickly.

      Most of these machines have been Dell Precisions. I have three on my desk now, one at home, and I had two where I used to work. They have been just as rock-solid as some of the Sun and SGI workstations I have.

      I'm glad you're able to save money by not replacing hardware all the time, but your solution cannot be applied everywhere. There are industries that absolutely must have the latest and greatest.

    2. Re:3-4 year cycle? Really? by Lieutenant_Dan · · Score: 1

      The 3-year lease cycle has to do with being able to deduct the full amount of a leased item over a three year period. If ypu purchase you can only deduct 20% per year. If you run your own business you probably know that.

      --
      Wearing pants should always be optional.
    3. Re:3-4 year cycle? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can set arbitrary expense limit for IT equipment as a matter of company policy, so if your company policy happens to be that you can expense up to $1M/year in technology capital, then you just expense it 100% in the year the expense was incurred, and not depreciate it over 5 years, not that it matters to the OP's company since they do a 7 year cycle.

      But, even depreciating over 5 years, It's actually a clever way to market their business, because basically their clients get 7 years of service out of assets they pay for over 5, meaning they get 2 years for free compared to continuously leasing. Plus, the owned assets contribute to book value where leased assets do not, which makes their client's stock look better.

    4. Re:3-4 year cycle? Really? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      In my mind 7 years is kind of pushing it. After about 5 years it gets the point where I wouldn't trust the hard drives for anything important just due to old age. Sure, you can replace them but given the time investment it hardly seems worth it. Plus other components like power supplies and fans will start failing and have to be dealt with. Of course, it depends on how you use them too - if each machine just has a standard image on the drive you can easily swap out the entire machine when it fails it's a whole lot easier. Just keep around the ones that have been retired for parts, and you can keep the remaining pool going for a long time.

  44. Here's the real story first hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This article is partially correct but leaves out the actual technical issues involved.

    Someone *from* that Datacenter here at that time. Here's what really happened.

    The old administration did not care about the existing IT infrastructure because they were on their way out. They wanted no changes made- just that things be left up. Yes the email system was old and past EOL, but the outages were really the perfect storm of everything that could hit the fan actually hitting the fan at the same time.

    The facility was doing work on the power system- the UPS to be specific. Somewhere along the line they messed up, and cut the power. *All* of the power. Datacenter goes dark. They brought the power back up, but then tripped it again before bringing it up for good. This detail is what caused the weekend of hell.

    The SAN that the clustered email servers (yes, clustered, they *were* redundant) had the stores on was an EMC Symmetrix. It has a built-in battery backup system so that if the SAN looses power it has enough stored to flush the cache to disk. The power going off started this process. The power going back on triggered the response to stop flushing the cache and start checking and rebuilding. Then the power went off again. This is the part where the specific details get hazy but in effect the SAN did not like this. I don't believe it had enough power to totally flush the cache and/or it did not have the logic built in to handle an outage while in recovery mode. The result was a downed SAN that *would not come back up*. Now all of the data was down and nothing could be done but wait for the vendor to show up and try to fix it.

    At the same time we were dealing with *every* server being off and having to come back up. There were hundreds. Luckily most did. Some did not. Some were important, such as in the case of *both* the servers in a clustered system that would not boot- which just so happened to be the system that some of the say "more important" VIPs were on. These were old systems running Exchange 2000 on Windows 2000. Long past due, but kept up by the staff since the EOP would not approve a new email infrastructure.

    Eventually the systems would be restored and everything would be back on-line. In the meantime though Brook thought it would be a good idea to spend untold amounts of money to bring in MS Engineers to look things. They cost a lot of money and made a bunch of reports but they didn't fix a damn thing. The staff that was already there found the issues with the servers and fixed them.

    There were later headaches, such as when mentioned that the Sonnet was cut (thanks Verizon!) and further SAN maintenance but that was the weekend from hell.

    Things to note:

    • There has been 24x7 NOC (Network Operations Center) for the EOP data center long before the current administration.
    • There was a DR (disaster recovery) data center. It wasn't *great* but it was there. Due to the SAN outage and estimated time to fail over it was determined by those in charge that the best call was to repair instead of failing over.
    • The "some previous experience" listed for Brook was *all* of his previous experience.
    • The GOALIE position is a joke. They took perfectly good technical government people off of doing technical work and put them in a useless role basically overseeing time sheets. Unfortunately things were now slower because changes had to go through the GOALIE's who generally didn't have quite the overall end-to-end system expertise to make final decisions.
    • Brook really wanted to push a "mobile desktop initiative" that was a joke. He wanted the remote experience to be "just like working in the office" with requirements of the laptops being encrypted. Let's disregard that this can never happen if not simply for bandwidth constraints. But still, they tried. Vista SP1 would have been perfect for this (because of bitlocker), or hell even waiting until Windows 7. But no, Brook just said "no" to Vista because it was Vista and forced the engineers to
    1. Re:Here's the real story first hand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just have to post (as AC, I work at a large university) just because right around that same time we had almost exactly the same thing happen here. Same brand of SAN, same situation: major unanticipated power cut, power restoration followed by a power cut before the SAN had flushed. Bad news, and a very, very long weekend. Lots of Oracle databases lived on that SAN, and Groupwise (at the time)....

    2. Re:Here's the real story first hand by omnichad · · Score: 1

      someone mod up this coward1

    3. Re:Here's the real story first hand by Ferretman · · Score: 1

      Very insightful sir...good to hear from somebody who was actually *there*.

      Ferretman

      --
      Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc
  45. Not surprising by lightknight · · Score: 1

    The average lifespan of a computer is 3 years.

    6 months if you're a tech. 7 years if you're a technophobe.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
  46. but... by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · · Score: 1

    If the refers to the first 40 days of the Obama administration, isn't the pre-existing equipment and network setup a reflection on the Bush administration's blunt edge grasp of technology?

    1. Re:but... by codepunk · · Score: 1

      No it probably reflects on the fact that "nobody" competent and thinking clearly would want the job of managing that. You could not pay me enough to admin those systems, think about it.

      --


      Got Code?
    2. Re:but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You get into a mode of "I can fix this!" It takes a while to realize that no, you can't, because the organizational structure and mission and the legal and political requirements it operates under make fixing it impossible. It will always be broken, and horribly so, and that has little to do with which party is in the office at any given time.

  47. Bush & co's fault, plain and simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Someone tried to deny one party had control of all three branches of gov't for six years: um, how old are you? The answer is the Republicans.

    Someone else tried to blame the procurement system. Then you're suggesting that the Obama administration improved it by orders of magnitude, since all of this has been upgraded, and there's a second, redundant datacenter in three years flat.

    Meanwhile, when was the last time we had a real, big leap forward in technology coming out of the US? No, smartphones don't count. One big reason: companies, esp. these days, do *not* do basic research, only incremental advances on what there is now - the other stuff doesn't show increase in ROI this quarter; meanwhile, the Republicans gut scientific research budgets.

                      mark

  48. Broken economy, wars, broken email by billstewart · · Score: 1

    Given how everything else that Bush left Obama with was a total disaster, no surprise that the White House email was a mess too.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  49. CIO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He is not a CIO he is a firefighter. I have seen many companies like this and thier network infrastructure is built on a pile of dominos.

    But it's a government job and he ain't leaving anytime soon.

    Nothing will change until a catastrophic event happens and then he will be the fall guy.

  50. So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come to think of it, those systems are probably more secure and "less likely" to be able to broadcast, share, or socialize with newer devices.
    Makes sense too, since Bush II was about as bright as a 1/2 W light bulb, and PC to him only meant politically correct (and also because he sucked at spelling)

  51. So in context, what that means is... by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 1

    "Doing one thing well" sounds great on paper until you realize what that really means in this context...

    Either you'll have multiple address books/sets of contacts (you'll need one for each different application, one for email, one for calendaring, one for collaboration,) or you integrate that function between them all. Both are horrendous pains in the ass, unless the servers are written to work together in the first place. ...But if they are, you're suddenly "locked in" to using only products that are all compatible with each other. Of course, if any part of that integration breaks (likely, if the applications involved weren't written to work together in the first place, and you had to "improvise" a solution to make that happen) all the apps lose their contacts function at once. So we're back to multiple sets of contacts, and "one-tiny-failure" breaking all these functions.

    And you'd have to have an account on each of these separate servers, permissions on all of them... Somebody would have to know how all five platforms work (instead of having just one Exchange admin,) and have monitoring capabilities configured correctly. That's another thing: Does XYZ Calendar App support your monitoring tool? Your backup platform? If not, better be prepared for some pissed off co-workers when it crashes overnight and you don't know that's happened until you arrive at the office the next day. Or better be prepared to find another job if your backup solution's support for it is limited, and you restore a "backup" that brings back the functionality while losing all the data.

    I mean, if you really think that is "simple" then more power to you... I mean, it is your career, after all... But your co-workers and bosses will laugh you out of your job if you seriously propose this "model" which would turn the entire business' concept of productivity on its ear, since they almost certainly currently use Exchange and Outlook for productivity apps, and every single user would have to re-learn everything they currently know to make your "simple" solution work. My guess? You'd be fired before lunch the first day this "solution" went live, as angry people from the parts of your company that generate profit as opposed to just spending money on personal technology wish lists line up outside your boss' office to decry your insane, not-compatible-with-how-we-do-business decisions.

    Not to mention the lynching you'd get for breaking everybody's Android/iToys integration to their work productivity apps, since those functions on both platforms rely on ActiveSync, which isn't available anywhere but Microsoft platforms.

    --
    Who did what now?
    1. Re:So in context, what that means is... by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      since those functions on both platforms rely on ActiveSync, which isn't available anywhere but Microsoft platforms.

      AFAIK there are non-ms solutions that DO work with ActiveSync. I believe ActiveSync is just OWA with some extra bits bolted on anyways.

  52. Down for DAYS? by dbIII · · Score: 1

    I'd lose my job if email was down for a day or two even if the data centre burnt to the ground. It appears that with MS Exchange I could instead blame the software and keep my job.
    Still, it's far better than it used to be - you can actually do proper backups of all mailboxes in MS Exchange now without shutting half the thing down! Also virtual machines make it easier to keep the mail running when the thing crashes, which I've heard doesn't happen anywhere near as much anymore.
    Yes, 23% was some sort of idiot troll, but the thing is still a shambolic heap that's very name is a warning to swap it for something else. Google gets a pile of business simply because they provide something that MS Exchange should have been over a decade ago - but it's the MTA part that really lets the side down with MS Exchange. It's as if it's abandonware from 1999.

  53. Worst day ever? by martinQblank · · Score: 1

    Worst work day maybe, I can see that. But worst day ever? While some folks have sadly experienced their worst day while at work (think of your own examples, I have mine) I suspect the majority of us experienced the worst day ever in our personal lives. Of course, I don't view the WH tech infrastructure the most important thing in life. Which may explain why I don't work directly for the government anymore.

    The only reason I draw this distinction is (not because I read TFA), I wonder if most political appointees (and politicians for that matter) increasingly come from well-connected, sheltered and privileged backgrounds where nothing bad ever really happens.

    Perspective matters.

  54. No, deliberately designed to suck by dbIII · · Score: 1

    An IT department is specificly designed to suck when you put somebody that walked out on graduation day into the position of VP of a Bank and then didn't touch anything related to IT until given control of the White House IT department. Such a thing is not an accident. Incompetance perhaps, but very deliberate incompetance.
    The person in question now works for a data recovery company after such an epic failure as the lost emails. The message that sends to me is that is you abolutely want inconvenient documentation to vanish you hire that company.

  55. Still use XP by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    A lot of agencies, even now STILL use XP. I know of at least one agency that STILL uses Lotus NOTES! 2001 called, they want their OS back.