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Misleading Robocalls Went To Voters ID'd As Non-Tories
silentbrad writes "An investigation by CBC News has turned up voters all over Canada who say the reason they got robocalls sending them to fictitious polling stations was that they'd revealed they would not vote Conservative. Although the Conservative Party has denied any involvement in the calls, these new details suggest that the misleading calls relied on data gathered by, and carefully guarded by, the Conservative Party. Known as 'CIMS,' the database assigns a 'smiley' face to supporters, and a 'sad' face to non-Conservatives. Liberal and NDP politicians say it would make no sense to call randomly, since many of the voters misled would be Conservatives."
The Conservative party is the party representing the interests of powerful people who wish their interests to be represented in law (*). It is in the interests such people to have such a party in power. It is a logical consequence that they will use any means possible to get this party into power.
Owen Jones said of the granddaddy English Conservative Party, quoting a speaker at his college: "What you have to realise about the Conservative party is that it is a coalition of privileged interests. Its main purpose is to defend that privilege. And the way it wins elections is by giving just enough to just enough other people."
(*) Contrast e.g. philosophical libertarians who in principle (at least) will not want the government to give them special favours.
Listing the wrong date seems to be a favorite tactic of misleading American robocalls. There was some legislation recently introduced to specifically tackle it, but it's probably illegal under existing laws as well. The main game seems to be whether, as here, political parties can feed the data to "third party" callers without it getting traced back to them.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
The problem is they got a thin majority, and that some of the ridings they won were won by fewer than 1000 votes. Many of those ridings, there are reports of this kind of robocall happening. There is every possibility that they wouldn't have won, or at least wouldn't have won a majority, if this kind of disenfranchisement wasn't happening.
More than that, it's illegal to represent yourself falsely as an official working for Elections Canada. It's also electoral fraud. Strictly speaking, under the law, they can have their charter as an official party revoked over this, meaning that if this goes all the way, we don't currently have a legal government, and our last election was invalid. Particularly interesting considering that Canada is one of the few countries that always gets asked to send observers to foreign countries to make sure the election is done properly.
"A couple of bad apples"? Are you serious? You might want to study some recent history. It's always the conservatives spying on people and generally pulling dirty tricks. They're the scum of this world.
Knowledge is power; knowledge shared is power lost.
"Should everyone stop voting for the party they felt to represent them the best, because of a couple of bad apples?
Canada is not the USA, we have more than two parties. We have dozens of parties! Are you so ideologically blind as to vote for one party, even if you know they are corrupt and do not represent your best interests as a tax paying citizen? Really? Are you that cynical? Because if so, that is incredibly sad. We deserve the best government money can buy. If there is corruption, it should be routed out. If a party is rotten, it's leader should resign. If the Prime Minister can no longer guarantee he/she has the trust of the citizenry, a confidence vote should be called. We have many options in our democracy, we do not have to accept corruption, lies, deception.
Don't tell them who you're going to vote for. They have no right to know.
"XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, use more." - Anonymous Coward
By definition, liberals spy on government and conservatives spy on people, so really, your argument falls flat on its face.
All sides spy and pull dirty tricks, Conservatives are evil enough to do it to people; liberals do it to corporations, which conservatives would like us to believe are people.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
considering that a database of personally identifiable voter intent was kept at all, it would appear a atmosphere of disrespect for the electoral process already existed in that party, and provided fertile ground for electoral fraud. so yes. it does matter. and as for the numbers, how about when bush won florida in 2000 by 200 votes? its not the total amount of people who voted that matters. its about how much you can influence the often razor thin margins in certain districts, especially in close elections.
Nope, they pull *far* more than any one else; others don't even come close. Just check out the number of votes of no confidence that they pulled when Martin had a minority; they didn't even try to make it work. At that point the Cons pushed for a coalition government, then when the Cons get a minority and the other parties go for a coalition Harper cries about it not be democratic, etc taking advantage of the electorates ignorance of how our system of government works. Not to mention during that minority they attached a no confidence rider to bills so they'd pass. He promised he wouldn't do it during the following election, but then that next time he gets in, what's one of the first things he does? That's right, the same bloody no confidence rider BS.
I could say the same thing about their Economic "action plan." According to the PBO it was their policies that got Canada into the situation it's in (made it worse that is) and their plan to get out of it was to do more of the same type of policies!?!?!?
And now with their majority, what do they do? They don't listen to every study done with regards to mandatory minimum sentences (they don't work), nor anything even approaching Science (hey, why use logic when yah got ideology). Thus, C-10 passes. Similarly, for C-11 with regards to digital locks and no doubt once the fire dies down with C-30 (the spying bill). As in, after C-30 passes, they'll, by regulation (add/delete by reg is already in the bill), add in information that'll be available without a warrant.
I could go on. (It's funny what a memory can do when used, eh.)
Harper is a two faced asshole that does nothing but dirty political gamesmanship. He's a disgrace. Same goes for Vic Toews and Dean Del Mastro and...
Now, I'm not saying that the other parties are squeaky clean. But, in comparison, Harper et al look as though they have been rolling in the mud while the other parties might have scuffs on their shoes (Liberals likely worse than the NDP).
Seriously, this election fraud shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. But, what would be nice is if the Cons would see at least some repercussions for their actions.
You're confusing accusations with facts. It was a Liberal staff member that leaked the information about Toews, not an NDP politician as the Conservatives initially claimed (without evidence).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/02/27/pol-liberals-vikileaks.html
Maybe the conservative party is behind this, maybe not... but does it really matter?
Yes. Aside from being very illegal and possibly throwing a number of elections, it's a blow to the reputation of that party. if they're leaking confidential information to a sleazy robocaller, then what else could they leak? Credit cards? It might also have legal consequence for the party even if "a few bad apples" did it.
And yes, such a display of criminality and incompetence would affect my voting decisions.
Considering how much they got away with so far, it's only logical that they push the envelope further. The general voter apathy makes it even possible, if not likely, that they will still get away with it. What will happen? A committee will get formed that, after lengthy discussion, comes to the conclusion that no direct involvement of a party can be established, maybe a scapegoat or two gets sacrificed (read: someone who wanted to leave politics for a better paying career in the private sector anyway), then it gets closed. Voters are stupid enough to forget about it 'til the next time anyway.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Should everyone stop voting for the party they felt to represent them the best, because of a couple of bad apples?
If you are represented best by a bunch of criminal thugs, then feel free to continue voting for them. Your apologetics are every bit as disgusting as their tactics.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
How about anyone subsequently imprisoned under the omnibus crime bill?
Seniors?
Veterans who've had their benefits cut?
"Find a victim" of the Harper government is easy. Getting the Harper government to admit that the people are being victimized to pay for "anti crime" legislation and the screwed up F-35 delivery schedule is another thing.
CANADA is the victim. All of it.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Many people don't understand how serious this issue is, including many of my fellow Canucks, friends, and family.
Several of the ridings which the Harper "government" won were very closely contested and were victimized by these robocalls directing people to non-existent polling stations. Whether they were smart enough to realize it was fraud, checked it out with Elections Canada, or were actually duped by the calls is irrelevant.
It was illegal for anyone to try to interfere with the vote in this fashion. The fact that there was interference invalidates the results in the affected ridings.
That means that there are more ridings that need to be re-elected than the Harpercrites had "won" to achieve their "majority." The quotes are because the only people who believe they have a legitimate majority any more are die-hard Conservatives who refuse to accept their party was involved despite the increasing evidence that not only were they responsible, but the how of the crime is being dismantled as well by investigators.
This is a serious, serious threat to the very foundation of democracy in Canada.
If the Harper "government" is allowed to continue in power after this kind of blatant vote interference, Canada will have allowed itself to be taken over by an organization using tactics no more ethical than that of any totalitarian regime or banana republic. This is as bad as or worse than the "votes" in the Ukraine and Russia, which are perpetually questioned by the entire world.
Yet sickeningly enough, it's our own Canadian observers who are requested to go and monitor elections in countries like Ukraine and Russia and to report on them.
The Elections Canada investigation is moving along as quickly as it can. While I wish it were moving faster, my one fervent hope is that they start tagging ridings as invalid and pulling the "elected officials" from power in those ridings, regardless of who is behind the calls.
That's the key point: I don't care who is behind the calls. The identity of the person, persons, organizations, companies, foreign interests, or political parties who were behind the calls does not really matter to me all that much. What matters is that the election results in those ridings are invalid and the seat-holders can not be allowed to remain in power without a re-election in those ridings. Not if Canada is to be able to continue to claim to be a "democratic" country instead of one where electoral fraud and interference are shrugged off as being "normal."
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
The general voter apathy makes it even possible...
Yes. Election fraud is a direct attack on democracy. Voters who doesn't care enough to be vigilant against scams like this are accomplices to the crime.
You mean "leaked" the publicly available divorce information about Toews porking his babysiter?
All information on divorce dockets is freely available on the internet. Suck it.
Contact the Governor General and demand he dissolves Parliament and call new elections.
These Conservatives (party of "Law & Order") have committed several counts of election fraud (In & Out and much more).
Fascinating how they love to claim something along the lines of, "Libruls got a speeding ticket, we committed election fraud, everyone's the same". Like speeders & murderers are somehow equivalent in their law breaking.
Globe & Mail article about former chief of staff to Harper calling for investigation.
Don't forget, write the Governor General and demand Parliament be dissolved until new election has been held.
Conservative insiders admit that their database was used. Got it not? Good.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
There's nothing wrong with knowing who your friends are and which they aren't or at least who you don't know are likely to vote for you. The only wrong is attempting to interfere with their right to vote. The penalty for that should be severe prison sentences.
Harper isn't a two faced asshole.
Mod +insightful.
Harper appears to lack a human face entirely. In its stead there appears to be an asshole (of goatse proportions) uncontrollably spasming his vile ordure on the people of Canada.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
During their last term, the Conservatives:
- were convicted of campaign finance fraud (the in-and-out scandal), using accounting tricks to funnel more money than allowed into critical campaigns,
- suspended parliament to kill an inquiry into the treatment of Afghan detainees,
- were found in contempt of parliament for refusing to disclose the cost of several big ticket items (including law & order programs, corporate tax cuts and purchasing fighters.) This is the first time a British style parliament anywhere has been found in contempt.
Then we had an election, and voted them back in, this time with a majority. So, yeah, they figure than pretty much get away with it.
This is the voice of World Control. I bring you Peace.
Next step is to see if the people above them knew or should have known about the corruption. Either way, they should be on notice that they MUST vigilantly police this sort of thing in the future.
Of course, if the party keeps attracting a disproportionate number of bad apples, it might be worth a good apple's time to think about how well represented they really are.
Perhaps it's worth considering if the party's philosophy is creating a framework where corruption can thrive. I know *I* wouldn't want to help corruption thrive without a very careful re-think. Of course, the consequences of stopping at nothing to stamp out corruption can be even worse, so that has to be considered as well.
the Liberals are .. well the liberals, but their last leader didn't do them any favours with his here again, back to america tomorrow antics.
Fucking liar. Ignatieff accepted a position at U of Toronto.
Why do conbots like free trade and the ability of the most talented to be able to accept the highest paid, most prestigious positions anywhere in the world... except when it's to their political advantage to smear someone for doing exactly that? (Note, I'm not a big fan of Ignatieff, but compared to what we've got, he's several orders of magnitude better.)
For just once I wish these guys could stop slinging mud and do something productive, but this is politics we're talking about.
For just once I wish a conbot would knock it off with the false equivalencies about how murderers and speeders are the same because they both broke a law. (Conbots being the murderers in this analogy, in case you're too intellectually challenged to understand it.)
No it's not. It's a paper file stored at the courthouse which you have to sign out to view. That's how we know who was responsible: the record of who has viewed your divorce file is also "public" information.
These kinds of divorce records are 'public' in the sense that anybody can look them up, which is public in the same sense that your personal whereabouts are public, since somebody can always follow you around, or the government could track your car's license plate. If your car's location is public, but police require a warrant to use a GPS tracker, why should details of somebody's personal life be considered public knowledge, just because the records are publicly available?
The line between public and private has always been grey. This didn't use to be a huge issue... if the cops wanted to know where you are, they'd have to physically follow you around. And 30 years ago, if you dug out Vic Toews' divorce file, you wouldn't be able to spread his dirty laundry far and wide. The availability of modern technology that lets you track thousands, or disseminate details of somebody's private life to the world, means we now have to be a lot more thoughtful about what we do.
So yes, the information is publicly available. But there's a difference between 'legal' and 'right,' and the attitude of 'fuck Vic Toews' simply contributes to the ugly, slanderous nature of modern politics and modern society in general. So suck it yourself: you're part of what's wrong with this country.
Rae was NDP back when he was premier of Ontario, but he's federal Liberal leader now.
I certainly hope you're not trying to put the Vickileaks Twitter prank, a protest against the provisions of Bill C-30, in the same category as scumbag election tampering. One hurt the feelings of a cabinet minister who'd just called everyone who didn't support his stupid bill child molesters; the other was an attempt to stop people from voting.
The Conservative agenda proceeds apace, with an austerity budget — hey, everyone's doing it, great excuse to gut the public sector — out in a week or so.
Mind the Gap
During their last term, the Conservatives:
- were convicted of campaign finance fraud (the in-and-out scandal), using accounting tricks to funnel more money than allowed into critical campaigns,
Which the NDP - the official opposition - also engaged in. After the Conservatives were convicted, the NDP settled and repaid.
- suspended parliament to kill an inquiry into the treatment of Afghan detainees,
Which happened under the previous Liberal administration.
- were found in contempt of parliament for refusing to disclose the cost of several big ticket items (including law & order programs, corporate tax cuts and purchasing fighters.) This is the first time a British style parliament anywhere has been found in contempt.
Which is about as relevant to Canadian politics as Bill Clinton's impeachment was to American politics: the other parties got together and voted the Conservatives in contempt. Regardless of the merits, most Canadians view it as political maneuvering.
Then we had an election, and voted them back in, this time with a majority. So, yeah, they figure than pretty much get away with it.
Well the lastest polls show that: 1. they haven't lost any public support since the election, and 2. they have a 60% approval rating outside of Quebec (and a 35% approval rating in Quebec).
So you're right, they pretty much can. The Liberals, NDP and Bloc have been trying to stick scandals to the Conservatives, and paint them as extremists for years. We've been told that the Conservatives would make abortion illegal, they'd get rid of gay marriage. There was the infamous attack ad which claimed the CPC, if elected, would have soldiers on the streets! The "Secret Agenda" it was called. Once the Conservatives were in power, the "Secret Agenda" would be out, and they'd destroy the country.
But the thing about scandals and mud is... if you can't make it stick, it tends to backfire and damage the accuser's credibility, not the accused. The CPC been in power for over half a decade now, and abortion isn't illegal, gay marriage isn't illegal, the economy is doing reasonably well and hey look, there aren't any soldiers deployed onto the streets. So far, the secret agenda appears to be mostly deficit reduction and following through on their campaign promises (like the omnibus crime bill).
Hell, even since the last election it's been a constant hail of 'C-11 = SOPA, C-11 = SOPA,' when it turns out to be nothing of the sort.
So right now, there's no proof of any wrongdoing by anybody in the CPC at all. There's an investigation underway, and I'll wait to see what Elections Canada and the RCMP discover. The CPC's loudest critics are accusing them of stealing the election, but I stopped listening to what the CPC's loudest critics have to say a long time ago. Ever heard the tale of the boy who cried wolf?