Peoples' Immune Systems Can Now Be Duplicated In Mice

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Peoples' Immune Systems Can Now Be Duplicated In Mice

Posted by samzenpus on Monday March 19, 2012 @05:07AM from the rodent-proxy dept.

cylonlover writes "Because everyone's immune system is different, it's impossible to predict with absolute certainty how any given person will react to a specific medication. In the not-too-distant future, however, at-risk patients may get their own custom-altered mouse, with an immune system that's a copy of their own. Medications could be tried out on the mouse first, and if they are shown to have no adverse effects, the person could take the medication with a higher degree of confidence. If the person has an autoimmune disease, the mouse could also provide valuable insight into its treatment. A team led by Columbia University Medical Center's Dr. Megan Sykes has recently developed a method of creating just such a 'personalized immune mouse.'"

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I think PETA just had a heart attack by Sydin · 2012-03-19 05:11 · Score: 5, Funny

Unfortunately they turned down a personalized immune mouse, so nobody saw it coming.
1. Re:I think PETA just had a heart attack by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:13 · Score: 0
  
  But if you cure the human, you cure the mouse.
  That sounds okay to me.
2. Re:I think PETA just had a heart attack by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:16 · Score: 0
  
  Makes me want to go watch The Secret of Nimh again.
3. Re:I think PETA just had a heart attack by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-19 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  As Danger Mouse would say "Good grief Penfold!"
  Heart attacks don't have much to do with the immune system. So PETA mouse wouldn't have saved them.
  / I miss Danger Mouse- when are they going to make that into a 3D film?
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
4. Re:I think PETA just had a heart attack by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:45 · Score: 0
  
  And if you kill the mouse, you get a new mouse.
5. Re:I think PETA just had a heart attack by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:47 · Score: 0
  
  There should be a 3D mouse movie with mickey (and the evil mickey from south park), danger mouse and mighty mouse - maybe a 3v1 thing but with a mega-mind type twist where the villain wins.
6. Re:I think PETA just had a heart attack by Kenja · 2012-03-19 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  Is that the same PETA whose leader takes canine insulin? Cause I dont much care what that hypocrite thinks.
  
  --
  
  "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
7. Re:I think PETA just had a heart attack by capedgirardeau · 2012-03-19 06:05 · Score: 2
  
  You are mistaken. The pathogenic contributions to atherosclerosis are not well understood, but there are clear indications they are at least related and quite possibly a contributing factor.
  For example this article, but you can find others as well:
  Bacteria Eyed for Possible Role in Atherosclerosis
  
  --
  Wax on, wax off baby!
8. Re:I think PETA just had a heart attack by h4rr4r · 2012-03-19 06:07 · Score: 0
  
  Insulin has not been made from canines in a very long time. It was never a commercial product as far as I can tell, but was experimented with in the 1920s. Bovine insulin was used for several decades. In the 1980s biosynthetic insulin was widely available and is pretty much all you can find these days.
  You live in 2012 and rather than use google and the other wonders of our time to learn something you repeated a stupid lie told to you by someone who is probably dumber than you. OUT! OUT! DEMONS OF IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY! LEAVE THIS MAN ALONE!
  Now you at least are cured of this particular ignorance. Next time use google before posting such ignorant drivel.
9. Re:I think PETA just had a heart attack by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 20:20 · Score: 0
  
  You forgot Minute Mouse, who was the sidekick of Courageous Cat!
Wouldn't it make more sense... by Brooklynoid · 2012-03-19 05:15 · Score: 4, Funny

...to use a guinea pig for this?
1. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:24 · Score: 0
  
  If sense counted for anything we'd just test it on humans.
2. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:31 · Score: 0
  
  yes, because human lives are worth so much less than animals.....
3. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by trongey · 2012-03-19 06:07 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  yes, because human lives are worth so much less than animals.....
  Are they worth more?
  How is the value of a life determined?
  
  --
  You never really know how close to the edge you can go until you fall off.
4. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by Eponymous+Hero · 2012-03-19 06:12 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  moot point. obviously all PETA members are willing to undergo these tests themselves in order to spare the animals.
  
  --
  insensitive clod overlords obligatory xkcd car analogy russian reversals whoosh pedant fanbois ftfy in 3...2...1..PROFIT
5. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by arth1 · 2012-03-19 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  If sense counted for anything we'd just test it on humans.
  The most compatible way I can think of would be to test on a cloned embryo, and terminate it when the tests are done.
  Unfortunately, given the rate of superstition, that's likely not an option yet.
6. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 06:44 · Score: 0
  
  Are they worth more? How is the value of a life determined?
  To me, the value of a living being is proportional to how similar is it to me.
7. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 07:24 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Embryos don't have an immune system, per se ... that comes much later in development. Plus, even children's immune systems are not as developed as adult ones.
8. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by aztracker1 · 2012-03-19 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  Animals can't file a wrongful death suit.
  
  --
  Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
9. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by SleazyRidr · 2012-03-19 08:31 · Score: 1
  
  So you clone the person, grow them to adults, conduct your tests and then dispose of them. No ethical worries whatsoever!
  
  --
  Is 1563649 a prime number?
10. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 09:07 · Score: 0
  
  Is there an app for that?
11. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by couchslug · 2012-03-19 11:51 · Score: 1
  
  "How is the value of a life determined?"
  By subjective human sentiment. Nature kills and recycles all "life", which evolved to deal with that by producing replacements.
  
  --
  "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
12. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by elucido · 2012-03-19 14:49 · Score: 1
  
  yes, because human lives are worth so much less than animals.....
  Are they worth more?
  How is the value of a life determined?
  Salaries and taxes.
13. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-20 03:19 · Score: 0
  
  I propose an exchange, one lab rat for one PETA member to be used in our Ebola vaccine clinical trials. The rat will be freed promptly to a local endangered snake reservoir. We might not find the cure for Ebola, but we will sure find a cure for PETA.
14. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-20 03:44 · Score: 0
  
  I'll go by average lifespan, hence humans are move valuable. PERIOD
15. Re:Wouldn't it make more sense... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-20 03:49 · Score: 0
  
  Here is the pecking order.
  Humans
  sentient non-humans (whales, dolphins, chimps, etc)
  client nonfood species (dogs, cats, water buffalo, ox, koi, etc)
  client food species (cows, pigs, catfish, etc)
  wild species non dangerous (deer, rabbits, doves, etc)
  wild dangerous species (cougar, hawk, alligator,spiders)
  vermin species (wild rats, pigeons, mosquitoes, ants)
  since these are for lab use, I would rate lab rats as somewhere around client food species.
Mice with human immune systems by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:17 · Score: 3, Interesting

Yep, nothing could possibly go wrong with this.
And throughout history, no mouse has ever infected a human. So ... we're ... safe?
1. Re:Mice with human immune systems by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:43 · Score: 0
  
  I'm sensing fear in this post, but I'm having trouble detecting any signs of intelligence. Would anyone care to explain what the concern is?
2. Re:Mice with human immune systems by buchner.johannes · 2012-03-19 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  Yep, nothing could possibly go wrong with this.
  And throughout history, no mouse has ever infected a human. So ... we're ... safe?
  The mouse will have a louse with a copy of its immune system. So we will know if the mouse gets sick.
  I suggest using Petrophaga lorioti.
  
  --
  NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
3. Re:Mice with human immune systems by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 06:05 · Score: 0
  
  As you mention, mice already have immune systems close enough to humans that they can infect us. That's without any modification.
  In theory it has even less chance of infecting a random person because its immune system is tweaked for one person.
  I would say the risk is not any worse than a normal mouse.
4. Re:Mice with human immune systems by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  If a lab mouse's immune system is a direct copy of a Human's immune system, presumably to test medications against viral and bacterial infections - you are going to be mass-producing (as is the major use in lab mice) - you are creating a system that _will_ produce highly infectious diseases with a high efficiency against the Human immune system. That said, I don't believe this is any more and issue than the ferret research everyone is freaking out about. Hell, bad Hygiene is enough to spawn new diseases and that is essentially what the ferret research allowed for (in combination with an already dangerous virus). This is a great thing for research purposes, and as long as it is handled in a safe manner (on par with the top-tier CDC labs) it will no doubt be of great benefit - I would _not_ however trust this in a typical commercial lab.
5. Re:Mice with human immune systems by SnarfQuest · 2012-03-19 07:10 · Score: 0
  
  Consider, you have a thousand (mouse) copies of your immune system for various diseases to practice on. What could possibly go wrong?
  
  --
  Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
6. Re:Mice with human immune systems by mutube · 2012-03-19 07:41 · Score: 1
  
  Humans are as much a "mass-produc[ed]...system[s]...that _will_ produce highly infectious diseases with a high efficiency against the Human immune system" as any mouse.
  It might give a vector for mouse diseases to adapt - but that's about it - and arguably they'd be adapting to the wrong thing.
  
  --
  Python coder | PyQt Applications | Writer
Interesting. by JustAnotherIdiot · 2012-03-19 05:18 · Score: 2

This is a very interesting concept, too bad every animal rights group will throw a fit.

--
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
1. Re:Interesting. by evilRhino · 2012-03-19 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  They can throw a fit, but it won't really impede progress. I mean, we still *eat* animals and use their hides in shoes and handbags. Using mice for science is more ethical than cosmetic uses, and hardly every store carrying leather is affected by those nuts.
2. Re:Interesting. by Githaron · 2012-03-19 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  ... too bad every animal rights group will throw a fit.
  Let them. I would pull out the popcorn but I think a bucket of chicken would be more appropriate.
3. Re:Interesting. by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-19 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  Try lobster... at least chickens are killed first... they boil the poor lobsters alive.
  Or cat. I think I read once that cats are boiled alive too to make it easier to remove the skin.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
4. Re:Interesting. by JustAnotherIdiot · 2012-03-19 06:31 · Score: 1
  
  If you butter the popcorn it may work, depending on the activist.
  
  --
  What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
5. Re:Interesting. by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-19 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  Could always use lard or suet instead of butter.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
I want to be that mouse! by Ralph+Spoilsport · 2012-03-19 05:21 · Score: 2

Because they will jack me up with all kinds of cool drugs and I will live FOREVER...

--
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
1. Re:I want to be that mouse! by mdsolar · 2012-03-19 05:31 · Score: 1
  
  Got to walk that green mile first.
2. Re:I want to be that mouse! by religious+freak · 2012-03-19 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  Algernon! It's been such a long time!!
  Good to see you again buddy
  
  --
  If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
Mouse Gladiators of Biology by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:22 · Score: 0

Insurers will charge higher premiums to people who bet against their personalized immune mouse.
Of Mice and Men by fahrbot-bot · 2012-03-19 05:23 · Score: 1

Of Mice and Men if John Steinbeck had been a SciFi author. On second thought...

--
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
1. Re:Of Mice and Men by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:30 · Score: 0
  
  Did you only write this because of the book's title and give us links in case we had never heard of it?? I really don't get if this is a joke or troll or anything.
2. Re:Of Mice and Men by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:41 · Score: 1
  
  I think it was "anything", specifically "I know there's a joke in here somewhere, but I can't find it, so I'll just dump core here... *core dumped*"
3. Re:Of Mice and Men by SnarfQuest · 2012-03-19 07:04 · Score: 0
  
  Its Mice! Soylent Green is made out of Mice!
  
  --
  Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Umm .. We got a problem ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:23 · Score: 0

We have mice running with human immune system = more oppurtunities for micro organisms to adapt in all kinds of conditions.
-S
1. Re:Umm .. We got a problem ? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:30 · Score: 0
  
  > We have mice running with human immune system = more oppurtunities for micro organisms to adapt in all kinds of conditions.
  This would be a genuine opportunity to use of the "what could possibly go wrong" tag, me thinks.
2. Re:Umm .. We got a problem ? by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-19 05:42 · Score: 2
  
  We have mice running with human immune system = more oppurtunities for micro organisms to adapt in all kinds of conditions.
  Yes- we could see more rodent disease making the leap to mankind.
  
  --
  "That's the way to do it" - Punch
3. Re:Umm .. We got a problem ? by Githaron · 2012-03-19 06:01 · Score: 1
  
  We have mice running with human immune system = more oppurtunities for micro organisms to adapt in all kinds of conditions. -S
  Acceptable risk. Have all testing done in a contained environment and then incinerate said environment on completion.
4. Re:Umm .. We got a problem ? by Anonymus · 2012-03-20 03:30 · Score: 1
  
  How often do you think lab rats are released into the wild when they're no longer being tested on?
Mighty Mouse by ph4cr · 2012-03-19 05:28 · Score: 0

How about a personalized gerbil and a cardboard tube?
Concerned by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:29 · Score: 1

I don't know how I feel about human diseases recombining and adapting at what I assume would be an abnormally high rate in an escaped population of these things...
1. Re:Concerned by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 06:06 · Score: 0
  
  Our herd does need a reduction in numbers, were straining the planet as it is. It's either by our hands or natures.
Limits to feasibility: remember TeGenero case by waterbear · 2012-03-19 05:30 · Score: 4, Informative

It remains to be shown how realistically close to human this mouse model can possibly be.
One remembers that a few years ago http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp068082 (New England Journal of Medicine), a candidate antibody-type medicament from TeGenero produced severe toxicity in the first (and only) volunteers who received it, though previous animal trials had seemed to give a green light to take it forward to humans. Although the initial test animals there were not altered as in the way now proposed, clearly limits exist for the degree of alteration that can be achieved.
-wb-
1. Re:Limits to feasibility: remember TeGenero case by Jessified · 2012-03-19 05:40 · Score: 1
  
  These examples are the exception. The lab mouse is the closest non-primate relative on the evolutionary tree (I believe). It's also a suitable model because of their short lifespans and ease of care. Morally, it's more appealing to many because of the apparent lower level of intelligence.
  I suppose using primates between mice and humans might make sense, provided they were administered in a similar manner to current clinical trials on humans. If it's ethical for humans to receive the clinical trial, then it's hard to imagine a solid argument as to why it would be seriously unethical for primates. Of course non-human primates can't exactly give informed consent, and that would be the one main difference.
2. Re:Limits to feasibility: remember TeGenero case by willaien · 2012-03-19 05:57 · Score: 1
  
  The lab mouse is the closest non-primate relative on the evolutionary tree (I believe).
  Not exactly. As I understand it, the closest non-primate relative to humans is a type of lemur.
3. Re:Limits to feasibility: remember TeGenero case by doston · 2012-03-19 06:08 · Score: 1
  
  I recall the reason the animals weren't harmed during testing was because they were "sterile" and had been bred for the lab, so the animals didn't have real immune systems, like a normal person or animal living in the wild. I read that the cytokine storm the humans experienced would have happened in an animal with a more devleoped immune system.
4. Re:Limits to feasibility: remember TeGenero case by h4rr4r · 2012-03-19 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  Lemurs are primates.
  Flying lemurs are not lemurs nor are they primates.
5. Re:Limits to feasibility: remember TeGenero case by willaien · 2012-03-19 06:20 · Score: 1
  
  Misled by the misnomer. Gotcha. Still, the answer isn't "mice", and it is *called* a lemur. Though, not properly so.
6. Re:Limits to feasibility: remember TeGenero case by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 06:21 · Score: 0
  
  Then when the customized mice are found inadequate, it is used as justification for doing it with human clones, a la The Island (2005).
Can I name mine? by EliSowash · 2012-03-19 05:31 · Score: 2

I wanna call it Rupert.
Old News, I say! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2012-03-19 05:37 · Score: 4, Funny

For who among us has not heard the refrain "Eh, it seemed stable on the test box, push it to the Production instances."?
1. Re:Old News, I say! by w_dragon · 2012-03-19 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  Followed by "What do you mean we weren't taking backups of the production environment?"
2. Re:Old News, I say! by Gothmolly · 2012-03-19 05:58 · Score: 1
  
  You mean the other way around:
  "It stood up to the load in production, so lets use that codebase for our development!"
  
  --
  I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
3. Re:Old News, I say! by martas · 2012-03-19 06:57 · Score: 2
  
  Yes, that's why I always back myself up before I take experimental medication. I can't believe there are still people out there who don't make regular backups of themselves. I mean, hello, this is pretty basic stuff here, god!
  
  --
  weinersmith
4. Re:Old News, I say! by Kyont · 2012-03-20 04:26 · Score: 1
  
  LOL. "Then later on, after it's gotten out of sync with Production, we might even check it in to source control." Too painfully true.
  
  --
  You shall see a cow on the roof of a cotton house.
Hmmmm... by Oswald+McWeany · 2012-03-19 05:40 · Score: 2

Hmmmm... I have a few thoughts.
1) It is well documented that women subconsciously detect in odor the signature of the immune system of men- and this is one of those "chemical" signals that women look for in men.
2) Are women now suddenly going to be attracted to mice?
3) Is this going to be a marketing ploy- carry a mouse of a based on a chick-magnet around and get women to sniff it so that they'll turn to you.
4) If we start giving mice human DNA- are we not worried they'll start getting smarter and plan world domination?

--
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
1. Re:Hmmmm... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 06:05 · Score: 0
  
  4) If we start giving mice human DNA- are we not worried they'll start getting smarter and plan world domination?
  Pfft. Like this isn't already happeneing.
RIAA and MPAA taking note by TheGratefulNet · 2012-03-19 05:43 · Score: 1

the Rodents Immunity Assoc of America and the Mouse Patrol Assoc of America are closely watching this for futher developments.

--

--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Dune? by poptix · 2012-03-19 05:43 · Score: 2

Does this remind anyone else about Hawat and the cat he has to milk daily to keep the Baron's poison from killing him?

--
Just because you disagree doesn't mean it's not true.
Ahh, finally by ThatsNotPudding · 2012-03-19 05:45 · Score: 1

A medical test that definitely won't result in protests!
In the parallell not too distant future... by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 05:50 · Score: 0

...We will be simulating the immune system on quantum computers. In the more distant future the computer designs the drugs.
On this week's episode by Quiet_Desperation · 2012-03-19 05:55 · Score: 1

Dr. House, your patient's mouse had a louse, but don't grouse. It died when Dr. Kraus scanned at 100 gauss. We should douse the patient's blouse with anti-louse, though. Hey, I hear Strauss.
1. Re:On this week's episode by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 07:11 · Score: 0
  
  House is going to be very boring when they just treat an array of mice with different meds.
maybe we can understand MG now? by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 06:28 · Score: 0

This could be very cool. Myasthenia Gravis is a relatively rare autoimmune disorder that's not well understood -- about 1/3 of patients have clean screens for known antibodies (esp in a variant that only affects the extra-occular muscles -- that is occular myasthenia gravis -- OMG!). Some fraction of the OMG patients don't respond to the standard treatment of acetocholinesterase inhibitors -- nobody understands why. I'm in that category and the only hope right now is long term immunosuppressive therapy (prednisone, anti-rejection meds developed for transplants etc) or a one in five chance of spontaneous remission. If I could transplant my immune system into a mouse, all manner of questions could be investigated. One particularly interesting bit is how stress hormones exacerbate symptoms.
Obligatory Douglas Adams reference by afeeney · 2012-03-19 06:41 · Score: 3

Of course, the mice actually decided that this was the easiest way to get humans to serve as genetic test subjects for them.
Re:CONFIRMED! "EVIL bug" Linux Tor Browser Bundle by Anonymous Coward · 2012-03-19 07:32 · Score: 0

Is this some sort of Bizzaro-World APK?
So wait does this count stuff like memory cells by NotSoHeavyD3 · 2012-03-19 08:03 · Score: 1

Just curious because the cells that actually make antibodies basically "reprogram" themselves into making a specific antibody. (They start out not knowing how to make antibodies and when they get exposed to something they actually edit their own genetic code to try and make an antibody that works.)

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Awww by GrimDanFango · 2012-03-19 08:26 · Score: 1

So some poor mouse will be thinking he's going to The Island...
cool by CosaNostra+Pizza+Inc · 2012-03-19 08:28 · Score: 1

A modern science canary for the coal mines.
yeah, right by jds91md · 2012-03-19 09:34 · Score: 1

But I want to save your life with a medicine today. You want me to harvest some genetic material, engineer it into a mouse embryo or germ cell, wait for said mouse to grow to maturity, then hit it with my prospective medicine, and see if it proves safe. You the patient will be long dead by then. Advancements in medicine seem so cool when they are merely theoretical. Let me know when it actually happens and is ready for prime time use in my busy general practice. Best, --JSt (MD)
...(quiet cough)... by way2trivial · 2012-03-19 09:48 · Score: 1

http://www.physorg.com/news180722781.html
"Researchers have known for more than 20 years that a reaction by a patient’s own immune system against the artery wall can trigger a heart attack."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/274921.stm
"Heart failure may be caused by a malfunctioning of the body's immune system, according to new research."
there's a lot more out there.. google it...

--
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Ready to get new diseases? by manu0601 · 2012-03-19 16:00 · Score: 1

That seems a clever idea to help mice-specific diseases to cross the species barrier and infect humans.
Mod Parent Up. by GargamelSpaceman · 2012-03-20 01:21 · Score: 1

I was going to say that: Give a mouse like this as a pet, for MURDER!!!!! The mouse will go get mouse-plague and give it to it's owner by peeing on them.
If you have one of these mice, you can test lethal plagues to find a strain you are immune to, and then spread it to the rest of the world and be OMEGA MAN!

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