Teacher Suspended For Reading Ender's Game To Students

An anonymous reader writes "Forbes reports that a middle school teacher in South Carolina has been placed on administrative leave for reading sci-fi classic Ender's Game to his students. According to blogger Tod Kelly, '[A parent] reported him to the school district complained that the book was pornographic; that same parent also asked the local police to file criminal charges against the teacher. As of today, the police have not yet decided whether or not to file charges (which is probably a good sign that they won't). The school district, however, appears to agree with the parent, is considering firing the teacher and will be eliminating the book from the school.'"

Comments

"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[eldavojohn]

Well there was that scene where Ender shows up at Petra's dorm wearing a sleeveless jean jacket with a utility belt and says that he heard the cable was broken ... or wait, am I confusing Ender's Game with Logjammin'? I mean, clearly, they're basically the same thing.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[DrGamez]

They are ok with literal genocide committed by a child soldier, but the moment the kid has to take a shower (and fight a bully), NOW it's pornographic?

I don't want to live on this pl- no. I don't want THESE people to live on my planet anymore.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[chispito]

They are ok with literal xenocide committed by a child soldier, but the moment the kid has to take a shower (and fight a bully), NOW it's pornographic? I don't want to live on this pl- no. I don't want THESE people to live on my planet anymore.

FTFY for all nerdkind.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[ifiwereasculptor]

It was read to the class. Doesn't it mean it was pornophonic? Which has to be less severe. I mean... if it were the same in terms of arousal effectiveness, I imagine radio porn would be rampant.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[hawguy]

He fixes the cable?

He must be a Sysadmin!

Thank you, I was afraid there wouldn't be an opening for the obligatory XKCD reference.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[Anne_Nonymous]

No in Logjammin he never fixes it; you're thinking of the movie Loginsysadmin.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[honestmonkey]

"Bomb those nasty aliens. Fly right up there and bomb them. Oh, yes, those nasty, nasty aliens, bomb them hard. More, more! You know how to do it!" Well, that's from memory, so maybe it's not 100% correct. Pretty sure that's from Ender's Game...

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[KhabaLox]

Well, 1-900 numbers were pretty big before the internet came along and undercut them on price.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[Anonymous Coward]

These are the same people who bombard the FCC the moment Janet Jackson flashes a boob but have no problem with hours of people being shot to death on TV.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

They are ok with literal genocide committed by a child soldier, but the moment the kid has to take a shower (and fight a bully), NOW it's pornographic?

Having gone to a high school where no less than ten of the students I saw everyday became mommies long before graduation, but no attempts at xeno/genocide, it doesn't really come as a big surprise to me.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[toriver]

No, Xenocide was a later book in the series.

Wait, now I get it...

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[interval1066]

Welcome to S. Carolina. We admire men with guns yelling "Yee Haw" who shoot up the criminals, hostges, and bystanders in the name of JVSTICE, but pornography??? By god.. HANG 'EM HIGH!!! Yee Haw!! Give that kid a gun right there, he's my next deputy...

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[Sique]

It has probably to do with the fact, that fully blown genocide actually requires skill, while getting pregnant (yourself or getting someone else pregnant) mainly requires the absence of skills - skills one can be taught by actually being educated about sexuality.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[ArcherB]

Well, 1-900 numbers were pretty big before the internet came along and undercut them on price.

And as long as you keep it text, even Dr. Girlfriend can be an operator.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

I don't have kids so I don't really know what's going through these people's heads. I've always suspected that everybody hopes that if nobody brings it up, it'll never occur to the teenagers to get up to mischief. It becomes a perpetual "no it cannot be a problem right now, maybe next year" sort of thing. So if something like sex-ed comes along, it causes the issue to come up at an inopportune time (note: There is no opportune time...) , so they get frustrated that this particular problem is coming up right now. The result? People don't want their kids exposed to things that'll make them think about sex. I'd like to think I'm right, but the thing that baffles me the most about this is all these parents, for some reason, don't remember what being a teenager was like. Remember Back to the Future? Remember Marty's Mom? "I never did things like call boys or park in a car with a boy" and all that other stuff? That's the image I get in my head when I think about these people.

Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. Whatever their motivations, I agree that trying to keep their kids as pure as the Flanders family is not a useful solution. I just don't see why they'd even have violence on their radar until they start seeing their kids actually hurting each other. Until then, there actually is some sense in being offended by pornographic imagery and turning a blind eye to violence on TV. It's a non-argument, sorry.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[yurtinus]

Come on now, surely you know exactly what's going on from your days in school...

Student doesn't like the teacher for one reason or another, starts looking for the slightest provocations to harm the teacher. Student finds a reason, rants and raves and cries to mom about it, mom rushes to defend her precious snowflake. School administration fearing lawsuits and the PR backlash sides with the parent and fires teacher. Student pockets this victory and starts looking for the next. Keep an eye on this student, they are going to be big in politics or business some day...

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[Fallingcow]

I thought the novella version of Ender's Game was pretty good juvenile fiction. Wouldn't stand up to good adult fiction, but it was OK for what it was. The prose was serviceable, but nothing special--good enough for juvie fic.

I haven't read any of the rest of his work, but I'd guess a full-sized novel telling the same story would be far less tight and focused and would, consequently, kind of suck.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[Anonymous Coward]

You haven't read Ender's Game I see. The final scene is a graphic gang-bang with a near-endless line of drones lining up, penetrating, ejaculating, then dying suddenly as the next moves in to penetrate.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[jd]

I thought Xenocide was when you killed a virtual Linux server.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[reezle]

Glad I'm not the only one who wondered why OSC is so revered. I loved the Ender short story, and read quite a few of this guy's novels thinking they would be just as thought provoking, but each book I read made me like him less and less.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[amiga3D]

I guess you don't like his writing style. I don't know that it's very prosaic but he does tell a great story. I remeber so many great authors I had to read in English lit. They had great style. Really wonderful writers. They couldn't tell a story for shit though. Theodore Dreiser? Really. What shit. Sylish shit is still shit. I think I read more polished turds in High School than I knew existed.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[Ihmhi]

Hurm... that would be a really underhanded way to get around the whole "abstinence-only education" thing. Assign a book (age-appropriate) that has safe sex as a major talking point (like a parent having "the talk" with their teenager) for a book report.

Bonus points, if any of the kids ask "why didn't we learn about this in sex ed", tell them that by law you cannot say anything and to talk to their parents.

P.S., one of my health teachers locked the door and basically violated the law by giving us proper safe sex education. I used to think he was kinda flaky, but he never lost my respect after that. I was one of the few students who understood the risk he was taking.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[PopeRatzo]

I guess you don't like his writing style.

No, his style is not the problem.

I think I read more polished turds in High School than I knew existed.

Yes, I think I read Ender's Game in high school. But I also read The Tempest, The Forever War, Ringworld, Pale Fire, Crime and Punishment and Gravity's Rainbow, so I was ultimately able to tell the difference between gold and shit. I also learned that "teen fiction" like Ender's Game is insulting to teens. It is possible to write for an adolescent audience without telling you what to think, like Card often does. And most "teen fiction" or "young adult fiction" is really most appropriate for 10 and 11 year olds who have to be convinced to read a book. By the time a kid is 13, they no longer need to be pandered to.

Orson Scott Card is one of the most overrated writers ever to write juvenile fiction. He and Ayn Rand are #1 and #2 on that list, but I admit to not being able to decide on the order.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[Chris Burke]

You just tell yourself it's Dr. Girlfriend at the other keyboard.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[mjwx]

Come on now, surely you know exactly what's going on from your days in school...

Student doesn't like the teacher for one reason or another, starts looking for the slightest provocations to harm the teacher. Student finds a reason, rants and raves and cries to mom about it, mom rushes to defend her precious snowflake. School administration fearing lawsuits and the PR backlash sides with the parent and fires teacher. Student pockets this victory and starts looking for the next. Keep an eye on this student, they are going to be big in politics or business some day...

The student is not to blame, even if they were looking for a way to strike out at a teacher. The blame here lies in the parent(s) who made the complaints. The parent should have made sure the complaint was legitimate.

This is the problem with parents today. The school system and teachers are trying their best to educate children but they run head first into "golden uterus" syndrome which has infected parents meaning that their child is the most precious thing in the universe and must be protected from anything slightly remotely harmful. This hasn't been helped by society putting kids on a pedestal (ye olde think of the children).

The problem is, as you pointed out that Mum, drives her Mum-Tank into the principals office and demands to know why her child has been punished or is learning something she considers unsavoury. Unfortunately school policy is to appease the parents rather then to defend their position. This is mainly due to the fact that if the parent's dont get their way they'll go on TV with a "shocking report" revealing how schools are damaging our kids.

In Australia it's gotten to the point where the worst thing that can be written on a report card is "Little Johnny needs to pay more attention in class" as threats from parents with no clue and no inclination to punish their little ratbags have become so great. Teachers and principals now live in fear.

I think parent's need to be reined in, it's their responsibility to punish their children when they do something wrong but unfortunately, they punish anyone else who tries to rein in their inconsiderate, illiterate, little crotchspawn. Maybe if we made parents responsible for what their crotchspawns do, but that wont happen until there is a fundamental shift in the way society thinks (society thinks, isn't that an oxymoron).

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[drinkypoo]

No, everyone but the child (who doesn't know any better) and the teacher (who was doing their job) is at fault. The parent for failing to do actual parenting. The school for knuckling. Etc.

Re:"I Heard Your Giant's Drink Game is Broken?"

[TeknoHog]

It was read to the class. Doesn't it mean it was pornophonic?

I believe the term would be pornosonic.

Put them to work

[Anonymous Coward]

We need to find something to do for these people who just sit at home waiting for things to get outraged at (a.k.a. the “volleyball is exclusionary and tag promotes violence” types).

Some probably poses at least basic intelligence and education. Surely there is some way they can be made a useful part of our society. I think if they had something productive to focus on, we wouldn’t hear about stupid shit like this as often.

On a more serious note, I get that some people get off on being outraged/protesting/fighting something. We all know people like this. In a lot of cases they aren’t even really into the cause, they just like being behind something. When they have kids, it’s like a whole new world of stuff to complain about is opened up.

I’m sure this isn’t the first time the school has heard from her (ok, I’m gonna be sexist.. but this _has_ to be the Mother (Mother with a capital "M".. you know the type..)). You don’t go from 0 to this. I just wish these people would think about everyone else they hurt when they indulge their need to whine and at least try to put that energy into something more helpful to the world.

Re:Put them to work

[Hatta]

The problem isn't the outrage, it's that it's aimed at useless targets. By and large, the bigger problem with our society is complacency. When we really need outrage, e.g., to put bankers in jail for their crimes, the same busibodies are nowhere to be found.

Re:Put them to work

[Anrego]

The thing about protesting that kind of thing, is you put yourself at risk. This is largely why I am part of that complacent mass. I have a job, a home, a bright looking future. I think there's lots of problems with the world that should be fixed, but I sure as hell am not going to risk losing what I have. The only people who can protest this stuff are people who don't have much to begin with, and they just get shrugged off as "jobless hippies". It's actually a suspiciously well engineered little system.

Calling up the school in a huff because the cafeteria serves junk food on the other hand.. very low risk for the bored stay at home mom..

Re:Put them to work

[cpu6502]

Let's TP the mother's home. My mom was/is very conservative but she never made a fuss about literature she found objectionable. She simply told the teacher that her kid would not be reading that book/seeing the movie until he was older (high school). That's the proper way to handle it. Like an adult instead of a whiny little bitch demanding the teacher be fired.

Nudity == nudity not porn. It is our natural state and nothing to be ashamed of.

Porn == sex. I don't recall any sex in Ender's Game (or the sequel Speaker for the Dead). So NOT pornographic.

This is as crazy as the government arresting teens who took nude photos with their phones, and then claiming it's porn. It isn't porn if there's no sex stupid cops and stupid politicians. Arrest them for the actual crime committed (nudity)..... oh that's right. The SCOTUS said nudity is not a crime.

Re:Put them to work

[fermion]

To continue on the serious note, everyone, I mean everyone, complains that boys don't read. The fact is that if a boy is brought up int he average school, he is given nothing, and excuse my language, but chick lit to read. The only reason I read was because my father read and it was stuff interesting to boys. Heinlein, Pohl, etc. It was pulp, but it got me into the habit of reading so i could read more of the conventional and socially acceptable stuff.

I mean school is so screwed up that when we read the Canterbury Tales, the cool tales were the ones that could not be assigned.

To go into conspiracy theory time I think the conservatives don't want kids to read. The books that are allowed tend to enforce a traditional world view that is common to those who are less intelligent. The books that challenge that view, and are allowed, tend to end with the protagonist learning that the protest was a youthful indiscretion.

So Ender's Game, though written by a very traditional homophobe, certainly challenges the conservative world view and does not end well. Though the male dominated world is validated, there is an indication that doning anything to win a war. As so often happens, single incidences in the book are used to provide cover for objections that is really about general content. In effect, too many parents are afraid when their children learn to think.

Re:Put them to work

[governorx]

The teacher should be fired. The kids should have been reading their own books instead of having the book read aloud to them. How can everyone else be so far off topic?

Re:Put them to work

[cptdondo]

To continue on the serious note, everyone, I mean everyone, complains that boys don't read. The fact is that if a boy is brought up int he average school, he is given nothing, and excuse my language, but chick lit to read. The only reason I read was because my father read and it was stuff interesting to boys. Heinlein, Pohl, etc. It was pulp, but it got me into the habit of reading so i could read more of the conventional and socially acceptable stuff.

My kid had no interest in reading until I got him started on Ben Bova's Orion series. He's 11 and loves it. Yes it's full violence, and sex, and "porn" - I mean, sex with a goddess while covered with animal entrails amid a stone age civilization? It doesn't get any better!

The early Card stuff is next; Planet Called Treason, Ender's Game, you name it. Those are boy books!

I mean school is so screwed up that when we read the Canterbury Tales, the cool tales were the ones that could not be assigned.

Hehe... I read The Wife Of Bath with my 14 year old daughter. Nothing like the prologue where she rants about the uselessness of virginity. Again, want to hold a teenager's attention while reading the classics? Show then the classics!

Re:Put them to work

[Paracelcus]

You're right, there are people (mostly with limited education/room temp IQ's) who really love to say that ANYTHING the don't understand is sinful/pornographic/anti-American and since they really understand nothing....

Re:Put them to work

[multimediavt]

I have a job, a home, a bright looking future. I think there's lots of problems with the world that should be fixed, but I sure as hell am not going to risk losing what I have.

Then, frankly, you don't belong in a democratic society. The whole point of our society and especially how the U.S. was set up to begin with was so that anyone in the populous could fight for what they believe is right without the fear of losing everything they have for speaking up. I am beginning to think that complacency isn't the real problem here, cowardice is. When did America get castrated by the corporations and the bullies? It's a sad day in a democracy when the people are afraid to say something is right or wrong because they are afraid to lose everything.

Re:Put them to work

[dunnomattic]

The problem isn't the outrage, it's that it's aimed at useless targets.

Here in the US, I believe we are seeing the result of not having an identifiable enemy in most people's recent memory -- or at least, not an enemy that poses an existential threat to the ordinary citizen. Generations before us had readily discernible targets in the Nazis/Communists/Fascists of the world. Today, we hear an echo of that from the right-side of political spectrum in regard to fundamentalist Islam. However, that's my premise: the vast majority of our "enemies" today are faceless ideologies.

I believe the instinctual pulls of self-preservation and tribalism have remained, but have been directed internally. For example, I live in a largely prosperous area. The first- and second-hand accounts I've experienced of someone threatening to "call CPS" for the purpose of dissuading another's behaviour are astounding. People are misdirecting their inherent aggressions at their neighbors. The relative comforts many people enjoy also means they have plenty of time to judge the actions of others. If someone's behaviour doesn't fit with their model, then they find a way to punish that individual.

The more laws, rules and regulations there are one the books, the easier it is to incriminate a person. That means these useless targets are easy prey.

Re:Put them to work

[bragr]

Yeah but in the minds of conservative, sex negative parents (or non parents for that matter), acknowledging that sex exists, or even that there are differences between "boy parts" and "girl parts" is basically the same thing as showing the kids a full length interracial, midget, anal gang-bang.

Re:Put them to work

[AK Marc]

When the parents send their children to the 6th grade illiterate without complaint, how are they expecting the teacher to get them interested in reading or literature? My son could read at 4 before I sent him to school for the 1st grade. Sure, something like Ender's game would be above him, but he's 5 and in the first grade, he reads "run spot run" books.

Why is it the fault of the teacher that parents are happy to raise children who are illiterate and the parents actively discourage literacy?

Re:Put them to work

[Anrego]

I'm Canadian, but the argument does stand.

Either way, self sacrifice isn't a common trait. For every person who's willing to put their life on the line, there's 1000 who arn't. That's just reality. More importantly, we'll replace those who do stand up.

Those corporations and bullies are _very_ good at pushing us as far as they can get away with, without pushing us far enough to say to hell with it. The middle class is for the most part (despite how people like to characterise us as unhappy slaves) happy.

Re:Put them to work

[tibit]

Agreed. I can't help but chuckle at the outrage when I tell the neighbors that we had a fairly decent intro to mammalian reproductory systems in grade 4 biology. Oh yeah, we did have biology and history as separate subjects starting in grade 4, then chemistry and physics starting in grade 5.

The biggest conservative idiocy IMHO is the whine about sexualizing/objectifying children. Well, it's the adults who do it for crying out loud, not kids! For a kid, learning about the reproductive system has no subtexts at all, and is just as much of a non-loaded topic as learning about, say, basics of organic chemistry like perchance simple hydrocarbons. People who believe that knowledge of the reproductive system is somehow a taboo/dirty subject are the ones where the problem is -- it's not with the subject, nor with the kids, it's with the parents who unfortunately were not brought up in a sane environment, and their minds got so warped around those subjects that they can't deal with them in a normal way.

Re:Put them to work

[mariox19]

I remember watching a movie, The Firm, where Tom Cruise plays a lawyer working for a firm that turns out to be in the employ of the Mob. The firm operates by mean of a gloved fist. In one scene, Cruise's wife and another wife of a partner at the firm are walking together -- the other wife is a real Stepford Wife type -- when the subject of children comes up. Cruise's wife says that she and her husband plan on having children.

"Oh, good" says the other wife. "The firm encourages family. It promotes stability."

In the context of the film, it was obvious that there was ultimately menace behind the firm's "encouragement," but as soon as I saw that scene I thought, "Holy shit! That's how society works. That's what the status quo holds over people's heads." I was young at the time, so it was like a revelation. Later, when I became a history major, I learned that the Norman's of France made their way all over Europe, conquering lands, and were also very active in the Crusades, and all because the bulk of them were unmarried men with nothing to lose and everything to gain. (Inheritance laws deprived younger sons of any automatic livelihood.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is your point speaks to something fundamental in human society.

Re:Put them to work

[MikeBabcock]

Of course they should. What do you think the school system is for exactly?

No offense, I'm against this book ban and any other on a school wide scale, but parents should always have the last word on education (since they could after-all simply homeschool if they had the resources). There's no reason a public school system should have the right to dictate education without parental approval, unless you believe in something other than the freedoms America no longer stands for, of course.

Re:Put them to work

[Sperbels]

Your sniveling cowardice makes me want to vomit.You deserve to be stomped. Unfortunately, your disgusting weakness will only get OTHER people stomped. I have been raising hell about getting critical problems fixed for 20 years or so, occasionally WINNING those fights, and guess what? There have been NO destructive consequences to my life. None. Zero.

...Says the guy posting anonymously. Nice.

Re:Put them to work

[dan828]

Actually reading TFA, they've posted an update that, more than likely, the offending material wasn't from Ender's Game at all, but probably some other, unrelated, material from the internets. Card thinks that his book was lumped in because it's been a perennial target of the evangelical right due to his being a Mormon.

Re:Put them to work

[Hatta]

What crimes?

Mortgage fraud, perjury, racketeering.

Should we put in jail the average Banker (middle class/lower middle class) who just follows company policy, and greets you with a smile?

No, we should put the highest level CEOs in jail. The ones who are responsible for the pattern of racketeering activity. Just like the Mafia, you don't get to run a criminal organization and claim you have clean hands.

For the most part this is what happened.

You left a lot out of the summary. Like the part where most loans they were rebundling were known to the banks to be 90% fraudulent. How did they know? Congress and the FBI warned them about it. What did they do in response? They increased the number and percentage of so called "liars loans" they issued. They doubled down on practices they knew were fraudulent.

Tell me, what innocent explanation is there for that behavior?

The problem is Outrage. Outrage is getting mad at things that have already happened, it isn't productive method of try to make sure it doesn't happen.

If you're not mad enough to punish people who have done wrong in the past, there will be no deterrent to stop people from doing it again. If bankers know they can crash the economy and get bonuses for it, why wouldn't they do it again?

For most events if you are Outraged it means you don't know enough about what happened or you just more interested in revenge then actually solving the problem.

In your case, you're not outraged because you don't know enough about what happened. Either that, or you're deliberately shilling for the banks.

Go read William Black's book and/or columns. He's the guy who put nearly a thousand bankers in jail in the much smaller S&L crisis under Reagan. He argues forcefully, with plenty of evidence, that outright fraud was the reason for the crisis, and the only reason we can't prosecute this fraud is political corruption. Is his outrage due to being underinformed?

Re:Put them to work

[medcalf]

You seem to have a childish, cartoonish view of conservatives. You should get out more; it's good for you.

Re:Put them to work

[KhabaLox]

The fact is that if a boy is brought up int he average school, he is given nothing, and excuse my language, but chick lit to read.

Yeah, I couldn't stand being forced to read all that Chick Lit, like "A Separate Peace," "Catcher in the Rye," "Lord of the Flies," "Huckleberry Finn," or "The Great Gatsby."

Re:Put them to work

[plover]

I don't care about the crazy soccer moms here. I care that the school board is failing utterly at their job. They are supposed to insulate teachers from crazy parents. They are supposed to be rational, and say "Yes, Mrs. Smith, we heard you, but we leave individual book assignments to the teachers. If you're unhappy with the content the public education system provides, take your child down the street to the private school that more closely matches your morals. Yes, we know it's expensive, but that's your choice."

And yes, a vocal minority of outraged parents (bonded together by a common hatred of porn / literature / science / logic / foreign accents / whatever) will put up their own flat-earth candidate, and will get that school board member fired. Term limits of one would prevent them from worrying about it too much.

Instead, what this school board did is told all their teachers "you're going to get fired for teaching anything that goes against the arbitrary capricious whims of any nutcake parent." And they told every nutcake parent in the district "want to get that unmarried pregnant teacher fired? Just accuse her of having dyed her hair, we're just as crazy as you and we'll fire her for you." That board may as well not exist for all the good they're doing their school system.

Re:Put them to work

[Securityemo]

That'd be unthinkable here in sweden. Every school is required to have the same educational standards in order to insure that everyone (in theory) gets equal education and access to information. Homeschooling is not allowed. So for example, a deeply religious parent could not (legally) deny their child "inappropriate" views on contraception, religion, or in any other way restrict their mental freedom completely.

Re:Put them to work

[PeanutButterBreath]

Of course they should. What do you think the school system is for exactly?

It is for ensuring that society has the adequately knowledgeable citizens that are required for the maintenance of a functional economy, functional democracy, public health etc. A public school system should absolutely not be subject to the whims of parents.

If you believe in the profess of knowledge, it makes no sense to have a previous generation impose limitations on the next.

Re:Put them to work

[Genda]

Clearly history is not your forte'. People have uttered your very words since the Babylonians, only acting when it was finally their necks on the chopping block, and by then far too late to save themselves. Read about wealthy Jews in Germany in the 1920s and 30s. They stayed because they were so certain it would never get them, they were happy, well to do, connected. Their bodies looked just like everyone else's stacked like cord-wood behind concentration camps.

You risk what have and what your children will have, by your inaction. You say your future is bright. So how will you handle economic or environmental collapse? This isn't to say that said collapse is inevitable or even imminent. But it is perfectly predictable, and without substantial intervention, the bright future you speak of is a pipe dream. You want to get grounded in reality and really begin getting interested in what is in your best interest now, and the future.

Being a bit older than you (I'm presuming by how you describe yourself), I've lived through a lot of the trends and choices that got us here. I've seen the big mistakes. Witnessed the stupid stuff at work, and made and lost fortunes in growing economic turmoil. Whatever it is that you think you're clinging to, its an illusion. The time to wake up is well past. Addressing reality with all due haste would behoove us all.

Re:Put them to work

[PCM2]

Of course they should. What do you think the school system is for exactly?

No offense, I'm against this book ban and any other on a school wide scale, but parents should always have the last word on education (since they could after-all simply homeschool if they had the resources). There's no reason a public school system should have the right to dictate education without parental approval, unless you believe in something other than the freedoms America no longer stands for, of course.

So you agree that parents should be able to use the courts to prevent schools from teaching evolution? Because some people think that not "approving" of lies like evolution is one of the freedoms America stands for.

Re:Put them to work

[Genda]

YOU ARE SLEEP WALKING and call it a life. You don't have to be a statistician to see the middle class is evaporating like a fragile mist on a summer morning... Those jobless hippies, used to be happily employed and have homes just like you. Then they sent their jobs to the third world. Destroyed their life savings by crashing the stock market. Gutted their retirement by turn entire states into economic wastelands call rust belts. Millions of people who did absolutely everything right, People who planned and saved and scrimped for their futures. Held diverse portfolios, and had property owned and paid for... got squashed like bugs. By the millions. You better believe they're pissed and ready to protest. Because they now live in vans and tent cities popping up outside of every major city in the country.

Your hubris would offend me, if it weren't so clear that you're simply ignorant. Sadly, you're ignorant by choice, and what you don't know my friend, really can kill you.

Re:Put them to work

[PCM2]

Orson Scott Card on how homophobic Orson Scott Card is:

The hypocrites of homosexuality are, of course, already preparing to answer these statements by accusing me of homophobia, gay-bashing, bigotry, intolerance; but nothing that I have said here -- and nothing that has been said by any of the prophets or any of the Church leaders who have dealt with this issue -- can be construed as advocating, encouraging, or even allowing harsh personal treatment of individuals who are unable to resist the temptation to have sexual relations with persons of the same sex. On the contrary, the teachings of the Lord are clear in regard to the way we must deal with sinners. Christ treated them with compassion -- as long as they confessed that their sin was a sin. Only when they attempted to pretend that their sin was righteousness did he harshly name them for what they were: fools, hypocrites, sinners.

Oh, so that clears that up, then. He's not.

Re:Put them to work

[SydShamino]

Nothing in the Constitution says that each and every person must participate in their government. It merely prohibits the government from taking that right away from anyone (without due process). For every 50 people in 1789 writing a document to govern the land, there were thousands who just wanted to take care of their family and live the best life they can. That hasn't changed in the slightest.

There are many personality types. Some of them would never be able to participate in the way you claim everyone who "belongs in a democratic society" must.

Re:Put them to work

[PraiseBob]

Then, frankly, you don't belong in a democratic society.

Let me get this straight... You think he doesn't deserve to be in this society because he isn't willing to give up his house, family, career and future, to protect the rights of kids to read a particular book in class. (They aren't even his kids)

I don't like censorship either, but there is a reason that revolutions are started by the young. If this book got banned nationwide because of these dumb complaints, are you willing to go to jail over it? If speech alone isn't enough, are you willing to kill to keep this book uncensored? I know you aren't talking about violence and don't mean to imply that. I'm just bringing it up for examples of how far people are willing to go to protect something.

It is impossible for a person to fight every injustice on the planet. Most people settle for the things that matter to them the most, like their own family and kids and house.

Back to the Future

[tedgyz]

I'm glad to see "book burning" is alive and well in America. I guess that's what the conservatives mean by restoring America. Now we just need to find some really cheap labor.

Re:Back to the Future

[getto man d]

Now we just need to find some really cheap labor.

Think of the children!

Re:Back to the Future

[timeOday]

I'm glad to see "book burning" is alive and well in America. I guess that's what the conservatives mean by restoring America.

It is. Here's what a Pastor said while introducing Rick Santorum two days ago:

"This nation was founded as a Christian nation...there's only one God and his name is Jesus. I'm tired of people telling me that I can't say those words. [...] If you don't love America and you don't like the way we do things, I've got one thing to say -- Get out! We don't worship Buddha. I said we don't worship Buddha. We don't worship Mohammed. We don't worship Allah. We worship God. We worship God's son Jesus Christ."

So there you have it. Santorum didn't object at the time, either.

Re:Back to the Future

[mcgrew]

Other banned books from the past:
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
American Heritage Dictionary
Catcher in the Rye
Fahrenheit 451
From Here to Eternity
The Grapes of Wrath

With the exception of the dictionary, all are timeless works of great art. What wikipedia says about Ender's game:

Reception to the book has generally been positive, though some critics have denounced Card's perceived justification of his characters' violent actions.[3][4] It has also become suggested reading for many military organizations, including the United States Marine Corps.[5] Ender's Game won the 1985 Nebula Award for best novel[6] and the 1986 Hugo Award for best novel.

Hey, why did <blockquote></blockquote> stop working?

At any rate, the teacher should be reinstated and the damned administrators should be fired. TFA is still loading and I missed this book (looks like a great one I need to read, too, trip to the library this Saturday). What's supposed to be pornographic about it?

As to the complaining parent, maybe the bitch should just stick to Dr Suess? Oh, she'll probably think Cat in the Hat is porno, too.

No matter how good something is, someone is going to say it's utter shit.

Re:Back to the Future

[Noughmad]

How ignorant.. Thinking there are political sides in America.

Re:Back to the Future

[Black Parrot]

How ignorant.. Not one mention of political side and you just jump right on the bandwagon.

Yes, how could anyone conclude that an American complaining about perceived eroticism in a book would be a conservative?

Re:Back to the Future

[jandrese]

this is quoted

blockquote works fine if you are in HTML mode, although it just shows up as another layer of indentation in the new layout.

Re:Back to the Future

[daem0n1x]

If you burn all the books, in a few decades ALL labour in the US will be AWESOMELY cheap!

Re:Back to the Future

[q-the-impaler]

conservative != social conservative

Re:Back to the Future

[tnk1]

This has nothing to do with conservatism. The problem is people who are simply pants on head retarded. They come in so-called progressive flavors too.

Re:Back to the Future

[Timmmm]

Ok, so basically there's three Gods, and they're all God. And each one is also God. Jesus is God, Jesus's Father, God, is also God. Oh and there's the Holy Spirit - that's God too.

At least that's what it says in the bible. It makes no sense, but the bible is Truth (tm) so Christians spend an inordinate amount of trying to understand how Jesus went back in time and became his own father.

Re:Back to the Future

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

I think I see where you're going with this... You, my friend, are a job creator!

Re:Back to the Future

[SockPuppetOfTheWeek]

"That" look is not in the least bit anorexic, and if you think it is, perhaps you need to lay off the fritos for awhile.

She is not unrealistically thin, and you'd be doing yourself a favor by trying to look like that. Yes, there are some models who truly are unrealistically thin and set unrealistic standards of beauty. She is not one of them.

Re:Back to the Future

[SuricouRaven]

They aren't even that good. The PTC has a very good strategy. Their expert Outrageists watch the television and find things to be outraged about. They then send out rallying cries via newsletter to the the organisation's mailing list and contact various conservative-leaning media to get the message spread further. The outrageable readers then hop on board and mass-mail the FCC, station, advertisers and anyone else involved demanding Something Be Done about this disgusting program - and, the beauty of the whole system, they complain without ever having seen the program they are complaining about!

Re:Back to the Future

[mooingyak]

That isn't indicative of the US in general; your link is about a woman in South Carolina. If South Carolina weren't geographically located in United States, it'd probably be considered a third-world country like Zimbabwe. It's in many ways one of the most backwards states there.

Re:Back to the Future

[Black Parrot]

If "there is only one god and his name is jesus", then why are they worshiping "god's son jesus christ"... wouldn't it be less confusing to refer to him as jesus jr?

No, Jesus is His own Son.

This takes the incest thing to a whole 'nother level...

Re:Back to the Future

[Americano]

Numerous occasions in the past three years, in fact. Do us all a favor, and go educate yourself, instead of being a dipshit with a half-assed political agenda.

Fact: Overly conservative parents object to books that they consider "pornographic" or "anti-religious." (see: Ender's Game)
Fact: Overly liberal parents object to books that they consider too "racist" or "insensitive." (see: The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn)

If you actually care to read a fairly nuanced essay about book censorship, you could start here. Then you could stop pretending that there's any difference between overly protective 'conservative' parents and overly protective 'liberal' parents when it comes to their children reading material that goes against the orthodoxy those children are being taught at home.

Re:Back to the Future

[timeOday]

Don't make this about conservatism or Christianity.

Why not, where do you think this is coming from? Read this:

The Daily Caller flags a little-discussed position paper on Rick Santorum's campaign websiteâ"his pledge to aggressively prosecute those who produce and distribute pornography. Santorum avers that "America is suffering a pandemic of harm from pornography." He pledges to use the resources of the Department of Justice to fight that "pandemic," by bringing obscenity prosecutions against pornographers... His statement references going after pornography that is distributed not just on the Internet, but also "on cable/satellite TV, on hotel/motel TV."

Mind you, I have nothing against abstaining from pornography or preaching against it, but this is something else. And don't say Santorum speaks only for himself, the point here is how many votes he is getting.

Re:Back to the Future

[DroolTwist]

As to the complaining parent, maybe the bitch should just stick to Dr Suess? Oh, she'll probably think Cat in the Hat is porno, too.

No matter how good something is, someone is going to say it's utter shit.

Well, we all know what 'Green Eggs and Ham' references. If thats not porn, then what is?? If only parents knew they were responsible for the booming porn industry by reading Dr Suess books to their kids at young ages.

Re:Back to the Future

[mooingyak]

It's not perfect, but I felt the point would be clearer if I phrased as closely as possible to your words.

Still, this is one district. I'll concede that it's very likely not the only district where this could happen, but there are plenty of others where complaints like this one are given the treatment they deserve. To me, the one encouraging facet to this story is that it's unusual enough to be newsworthy.

Re:Back to the Future

[gv250]

For some strange reason, people have come to think of "God" as some deity's proper name.

Because God wouldn't tell us God's proper name. When Moses asked "What should people call you?", God answered "I AM THAT I AM. Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, `I AM hath sent me unto you.'" (King James, Exodus 3:14)

Since "The Immortal State of Existence" was kind of a long name, and "I am" was awkward to use in conversation, we shortened it to: God.

Re:Back to the Future

[iamhassi]

At any rate, the teacher should be reinstated and the damned administrators should be fired.

Naw, I'm pretty sure it went like this:

Parent: This book is pornographic and the teacher is reading it to my 14 yr old!
Superintendent: Ender's Game? (thinking: I haven't read that) What parts are pornographic? (read: take quotes out of context and make them sound bad)
Parent: (thinking: shit! I haven't read it either! I just hate that teacher!) .... um.... (quickly googles ender's game pornographic) .... See! It's right there, at the top of google! Ender's Game is pornographic!
Superintendent: OH! Well! That changes everything! I will definitely fire that teacher! .... by the way, are you voting for Santorum? Google "Santorum" and let's see what comes up....

Re:Back to the Future

[St.Creed]

Cool - it's a DOS attack with humans as captured nodes. Memetic warfare FTW! :)

Re:Back to the Future

[HornWumpus]

It's worse than just book burning. Up north they rewrote Huck Fin and Tom Sawyer to more closely adhere to their Politically correct beliefs. I kid you not. That is in many ways worse than outright censorship.

Re:Back to the Future

[EdIII]

Not such a bad idea. Can you imagine how effective a 5 year old could be at cable runs at data centers and in office building ceilings? All it would cost me is some Snackables and a visit to Chuck E Cheese later.

Re:Back to the Future

[ffflala]

Problem is that second fact of yours isn't one. This issue isn't one where the behavior is the same on both sides of the aisle.

I'm a librarian, and I've been on the other end of a few attempts at book bans, and have probably heard more about them than most non-librarians. I have never seen nor heard an account of an "overly liberal parent" who objects to "books that they consider too racist or insensitive" to the point that --and this is an important distinction-- said person demands to have a book removed from a collection and made unavailable to students/people/kids.

I've never seen this behavior, I've never heard of it, and your own links don't provide even any anecdotal references to it. Your second link does describe how many liberals will often stock their libraries with books that support their own worldview, and how they will push to have these books included on school reading lists. That might be true enough, but it is absolutely inaccurate to equate this with book banning/censorship, as the article does. Sure, it is advocating one's own world view. However showing preference to certain books is very, very different from removing access to certain books. Only one of these things is censorship.

Book banning is censorship, and it is a typical (and a stereotypical) conservative solution, not a liberal one.

Re:Back to the Future

[Americano]

Really. Then why is Huck Finn one of the top books on the ALA's list of most-challenged books? Are you telling me that it's - to borrow a phrase from the AC I originally replied to - "inbred, hillbilly, neo-fascist, very republican bible belt" conservatives who are challenging the teaching of a book filled with racial slurs? I would think those inbred hillbillies would LOVE the idea of indoctrinating children in this manner, wouldn't you?

Congratulations on your anecdote that you've never seen a liberal parent get hysterical over a book. I assure you, it happens. As far as my links not supporting the assertion, you clearly didn't actually look at the data available on the map. If you bother to look at the map I linked, you'll also see that quite-liberal enclaves fall prey, and not - as you're probably assuming - for "Jenny's Two Mommies!" conservative hysteria. Here's a 'fer instance':

"Seattle, Washington: (2011) Aldous Huxley's Brave New World was retained on the list of approved materials that Seattle, Wash. high school teachers may use in their language arts curriculum. A parent had complained that the book has a “high volume of racially offensive derogatory language and misinformation on Native Americans. In addition to the inaccurate imagery, and stereotype views, the text lacks literary value which is relevant to today’s contemporary multicultural society."

Is the language of that objection more typical of an overly-sensitive politically-correct liberal, or an inbred conservative hillbilly? The book survived the challenge, but you're a fool if you think that extremists on both sides of the American political spectrum aren't trying to suppress materials that conflict with their world view.

Re:Back to the Future

[Uberbah]

Party is as party does.

So does that mean that gun control has at time been a "conservative" goal because gun control laws have at times been backed by Republicans?

Also - if Democrat != liberal, then what's the point of having a Democratic party?

To present voters with the illusion of choice. To ensure that when a "vote the bums out" election occurs, that voters have a choice between Corporate Whore Warmonger A and Corporate Whore Warmonger B. To keep the rubes distracted with TV debates over abortion rights to fight the shared agenda of both parties: endless war, shredding the Constitution, and selling out the vast majority of Americans to make the rich richer.

Re:Back to the Future

[Americano]

That map I linked to contains dozens of examples, if you can't be bothered to read the data provided, I'm not about to sit here and cut and paste it all for you. The example I cited was just that - if you want to read the full list, then you will, and you're welcome to - I'll not recite it for you.

Interestingly, I notice that you omitted this part of the story about Ms. Sense-Wilson:

Why is this book still an issue? Sense-Wilson wants other high schools in Seattle to stop using it in their curriculum too. The Seattle School board is meeting this afternoon to discuss the use of the book Brave New World.

Oops, guess you missed that part, huh? No, she doesn't want to ban it - she just wants to make sure that teachers can't use it in a classroom setting anywhere in the Seattle School District. I guess if we don't use ugly words like "ban," what she's trying to do doesn't constitute "banning" the book. No, it's just "a perfectly reasonable request that an entire municipal public school system change it's curriculum by pretending the book doesn't exist." There are numerous other examples on the list I provided where "racial insensitivity," are cited as the reason for wanting to ban the book - feel free to read, or not. If expanding your worldview to understand that people seek to ban books for ALL KINDS of reasons - not just because they're backwards hillbillies, or conservative - is more than you're willing to do, then I'm done trying to have a rational discussion with you.

Also:

Didn't bother to source

The links - to ALA, and the NPR writeup on the ALA's map, are my source. Again - if you can't be bothered to explore the data points on the map, I'll not do your homework for you. You wanted to chime in and tell me how wrong I was that seeking to ban books is a phenomenon that can be witnessed on both sides of the political aisle, but you've refused to offer any counter-evidence of your own, and you've obstinately refused to read the fucking data I've provided to you.

distinction between "ban" and "complain"

The distinction between the two is simply that a "complaint" precedes a "ban." The complaint in the case of Ender's Game, and the complaint in the case of Brave New World, BOTH sought to effect the removal of the book from school curriculum. You seem to think that a situation where "you can always find it in a bookstore, or a library, if you already know about the book and go seeking it out, but the teachers aren't allowed to mention the existence of the book anymore, despite their feelings on its value as a teaching aid," doesn't constitute a ban. If that's the case, may we also conclude that you support the parent in this case, and agree that Ender's Game should be banned from the curriculum, and the teacher should perhaps even be fired for bringing such "shocking" material into the classroom? I mean, people who want to read Ender's Game can always find it somewhere outside the classroom, so nobody's proposing we BAN the book - right? It's just a perfectly reasonable "complaint"!

I can only hold your hand so far, friend. I'll lead you to information, but I sure can't make you think.

Re:Back to the Future

[Americano]

If you're really more upset by the term *only hillbilly inbred republicans* here and have taken it personally, know that your emotional quarrel is with someone else.

As I've already said, I'm really more upset by the attempt to characterize "book banning" and "censorship" as something that is only a characteristic of conservatives, rather than a commonality between the extremes on both sides of the political spectrum.

If you're really more upset by the phrase "liberals also seek to ban books" and have taken it personally, know that your emotional sensitivity does not provide sufficient justification for you to pretend the facts I've laid out do not exist.

Re:Back to the Future

[Americano]

Nope. Would having worked in the public sector help me understand why you seem incapable of processing the information I've provided you with? Would it help me understand how you can blithely assert that demanding that an entire school district remove all references to a particular book in its curriculum doesn't constitute censorship? Would it help me to understand why, despite disagreeing with me strenuously, you seem incapable of providing any information of your own to back up your commentary?

Because if it won't help me understand any of that, I'm not certain I see the relevance of the question, other than to provide you with one more excuse to hand-wave away inconvenient points I've raised, because you *really feel* like I must not be correct, despite the facts and evidence I've provided to support my statements.

Heh, I just recommended this book

[wjhoffman1983]

to my 55 year old mother in law. I hope she doesn't go in to cardiac arrest.

Re:Heh, I just recommended this book

[PIBM]

Wasn't that your plan all along ???

Good Ole Southern Cackalacky

[eldavojohn]

I'm drawing a blank here but about the only thing I can think of that would qualify as close to pornography is the part where Ender beats the shit out of that bully and the book talks about how his medical sheet reads "bruised testicle." Which, if two adolescent boys bruising up each other's private parts arouses you in anyway, you are probably the one that needs help.

The other possibility is that the book is too descriptive in some parts (maybe when Ender burrows into the giant's eye in the simulation?). And they're in ye olde Southern Cackalacky where the definition of pornography is just anything that gets too descriptive for their comfort. So, you know, like anything that's written well.

Or perhaps one of the parents caught wind that Orson Scott Card is Mormon and different and therefore evil. And then they looked up the White Horse Prophecy and put ... wait, that's already far more reading and research than this individual is capable of.

Re:Good Ole Southern Cackalacky

[MickyTheIdiot]

As usual, this case has been discussed in other places first. IIRC the "bruised testicle" was part of what the bitching is about.

We're in a bad spot in our society when these idiots aren't laughed out of the office. Let the freak homeschool her precious snowflake and stop being a burden on us.

Re:Good Ole Southern Cackalacky

[Anonymous Coward]

When ender first gets to his dorm one of the boys is using his tablet to create a holographic genetalia.

Re:Good Ole Southern Cackalacky

[i_ate_god]

Wasn't there a lot of child nuditiy in Ender's Game?

I haven't read the book in a while, but I remember thinking "that's going to be... a tricky movie to make" when there was news of a possible Ender's Game movie.

Re:Good Ole Southern Cackalacky

[An ominous Cow art]

"Remember, the enemy's pants are DOWN!"

Re:Good Ole Southern Cackalacky

[b1scuit]

Any parent that thinks their kid hasn't drawn a penis, because penises are, in fact, hilarious, needs to go back to parenting school.

Re:Good Ole Southern Cackalacky

[Scrameustache]

I'm drawing a blank here but about the only thing I can think of that would qualify as close to pornography is the part where Ender beats the shit out of that bully and the book talks about how his medical sheet reads "bruised testicle."

After the teenager's mother contacted police, investigators contacted the school.
School officials have since said two of the three books the teacher read were determined to have materials (primarily swear words) and, in some instances, subject matter and terminology that school administrators consider inappropriate for the middle school.

According to commonsensemedia.org, which claims it has in-house staff and a team of reviewers who are experts in children's media, technology, health and policy matters, "this book was not originally intended for children. The violence is, at times, quite brutal, as kids kill other kids, though unintentionally, and the main character is admired for his ruthlessly efficient violence, though he himself is disturbed by it."
The website also advises parents to be aware of violence, sex and language, but states that the content is appropriate for children 12 years or older.
The student who gave a statement to the school is 14.

Re:Good Ole Southern Cackalacky

[HTH NE1]

Wasn't there a lot of child nudity in Ender's Game?

It's not a picture book. Any child nudity you saw while reading it (or listening to it in audiobook form or otherwise having it read to you) you produced yourself in your own mind.

Re:Good Ole Southern Cackalacky

[Duhavid]

In "Princess of Mars" ( book ), Dejah Thoris was described as naked except for a few ornamental items.
In the "John Carter" movie, she was clothed through the whole movie. They can find a way to handle it.

Re:Good Ole Southern Cackalacky

[HornWumpus]

Maybe if she had been naked except for a few ornamental items the movie wouldn't have lost so much money.

For the Children

[TemperedAlchemist]

The school district reports that the letters E, I, N, P, and S have been removed from the school curriculum after a parent complained her son was being exposed to gateway pornography.

Re:For the Children

[robably]

So no more penis, but also no spine.

Re:For the Children

[NatasRevol]

You can't even SNIPE them for taking those letters.

Re:For the Children

[Krau Ming]

Or Snipes... such a good actor...

Re:For the Children

[jandrese]

And your forests will look so much duller in the winter with no PINES around.

Re:For the Children

[istartedi]

And they can't ask if the pen is mightier than the sword.

There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[Bruce Perens]

Ender is a school child who kicks another school child to death in the school bathroom. Nobody has any question that it's happened, but not much seems to happen to Ender because of it.

Because of this particular scene in the book, I've always felt that it should not have been promoted as a children's book. I have also felt that Orson Scott Card is, IMO, unsavory for cooperating in promoting it as a children's book.

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[ScuzzMonkey]

Hansel and Gretel shove a little old lady into on oven and broil her, and that's been broadly accepted as children's fare for two hundred years. A little justifiable homicide shouldn't be a big issue all of a sudden.

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[BagOBones]

That makes if violent, not pornographic.

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[Attila Dimedici]

I was thinking along the same lines, the violence in the book between school kids makes the book inappropriate for children. I can not, however, think of any scenes that qualify as pornographic. It may be that the school district does not consider it pornographic, but agrees with the judgement that it is inappropriate for children and suspended the teacher for that reason.

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[AshPattern]

The bully was already dead when kicked. He hit his head accidentally on a knob.

Time to read the book again :)

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[Niris]

In middle schools all over California children are reading Of Mice and Men. The characters in that shoot a guy in the back of the head, fight, and drink. They also introduce Shakespeare during freshmen year of high school. We might as well ban reading and literature so that we can sink all types of education in America, not just math. WON'T ANYONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[Xeth]

Card is certainly unsavory, but I am curious why you think it shouldn't be promoted as a young adult book. Many of those books involve violence, often without consequences (e.g The Lottery short story). I personally think that scene makes a great discussion point; people should understand why Ender wasn't punished, and that could frame an interesting ethical discussion. I think the target audience for Ender's Game is old enough that they can understand that not everything that happens (in a book or reality) is just.

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[SnarfQuest]

I remember reading "Lord of the Flies" as a school assignment, as well as "The Jungle", and "Jude the Obscure".

If those aren't banned yet, then I don't see why they would bother with such a tame offering as "Ender's Game".

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[chispito]

Ender is a school child who kicks another school child to death in the school bathroom. Nobody has any question that it's happened, but not much seems to happen to Ender because of it.

Because of this particular scene in the book, I've always felt that it should not have been promoted as a children's book. I have also felt that Orson Scott Card is, IMO, unsavory for cooperating in promoting it as a children's book.

Spoiler alert: it's a pattern that foreshadows what happens at the end of the book. He lashes out in self defense against threats to his survival (or perceived threats) and immediately regrets it. It's not his fault that he kills. It is the fault of those who manipulate him and his peers so that these life-or-death conflicts keep occurring, without outside intervention.

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[na1led]

Let's also Ban Moby Dick, because the title has profanity!

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[Zak3056]

Ender is a school child who kicks another school child to death in the school bathroom. Nobody has any question that it's happened, but not much seems to happen to Ender because of it.

Nothing happens to Ender, legally--he's a child, and has been placed in that situation by the authorities, who are pretty much hoping for the response that they get. Later on (either at the end of Ender's Game, or in Ender's Shadow) it's revealed that Graff was indeed court-martialed for the deaths of both Bonzo and Stilson, though he is acquitted because of his statements that the war would have been lost if not for his actions in turning Ender into the weapon that humanity needed.

Graff aside, Ender did most certainly suffer for those deaths, and the billions more that he caused. Mentally, emotionally, and, later, being equated to another Adolf Hitler by the very people he saved.

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[Bruce Perens]

We expose people of all ages in our society to violence that they are encouraged to perceive as normal, at least normal to experience as a voyeur rather than a participant. I don't think it's a good way to socialize anyone.

We're about to be immersed in The Hunger Games, because of the movie. I haven't read that, and my 12-year-old has. He optimizes what he reads for a reading score web site that the school district uses, as it's 25% of his grade. So, you can consider that The Hunger Games in this case was recommended by the government!

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[Hatta]

Tricky moral situations are essential for children's reading. Feeding children sanitized narratives only primes them to accept the sanitizied narratives that are fed to us by government and media. Expose children to grey moral areas early, and they will be better equipped to handle grey moral areas in life.

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[JaredOfEuropa]

IIRC, nothing much happens to Ender after the incident, but his superiors did not ignore it; there's some discussion about whether or not he should be punished. In the end there's not that much they can do to Ender if he is to continue his career as saviour of earth.

Sure, you can have a discussion about whether or not this book is suitable for kids. Different schools may arrive at different conclusions, and I'm ok with those who decide against it removing it from the school library. But firing the teacher for reading it in class? That should only be the case if there had been any actual (mental) damage to the kids, and if the teacher in question made a gross misjudgment in reading them this book. I don't think that this is the case, by any remotely reasonable standard.

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[Canazza]

There's more naked violent children in Lord of the Flies than there is in Enders Game.
Read that at school when I was 14.

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[janeuner]

STILSON SHOT FIRST

Re:There's this little problem with Ender's Game

[HTH NE1]

Hello, children. Hello. Here is this morning's story. Are you ready? Then we'll begin.

One day, Ricky the magic pixie went to visit Daisy Bumble in her tumble-down cottage. He found her in the bedroom. Roughly, he grabbed her heavy shoulders, pulling her down onto the bed and ripping off her--

Old Nick the sea captain was a rough, tough, jolly sort of fellow. He loved the life of the sea, and he loved to hang out down by the pier, where the men dressed as ladies--

Rumpletweezer ran the dinky-tinky shop in the foot of the magic oak tree by the wobbly dum-dum bush in the shade of the magic glade down in Dingly Dell. Here he sold contraceptives and--

Discipline... naked... "with a melon"?

What. The. Fuck.

[Iamthecheese]

People who try to ban things "because someone might be offended" are themselves the problem. And it is a wide-spread and serious one.

I only hope we can get over this state of permanent panic before it kills us.

The USA is broken. It can't be fixed.

[Saphati]

The USA is pathetic. I am glad I emigrated.

It IS pornographic and should be BANNED

[Anonymous Coward]

It shows society naked. That IS pornographic.
It talks about relationships between siblings, teaches children to think critically, demonstrates adults can and do lie, shows how society is and can be manipulated by media and wont some please think of the children harmed by the reading of this terrible book !!!!

Porn?

[Sperbels]

There was some violence in that book, yes. But was there anything sexually graphic? I can't think of anything. I don't even think there was an profanity. Can anyone think of anything that even comes close to being pornographic?

When I was in High School...

[tekrat]

We read Candide. That's gotta be way more "pornographic" than Ender's Game. What is this country coming to?

Between Santorum, Limbaugh and the rest of those jokers bible thumping their way into our bedrooms but refusing to even tax one cent of a rich person's income (because that's government intrusion), this country is really and truly fucked.

We're going to be like Argentina, and the shooting in Florida is proving that there are now only gated communities and trailer parks -- and if you're the wrong color in a gated community, you are a target.

Re:When I was in High School...

[eht]

The bible is one of the most pornographic and violence filled books ever.

Two of the more pornographic passages, yes the second one is incest, no it is not taken out of context in the least.

Ezekiel 23:20
There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

Genesis 19:32
Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

Re:When I was in High School...

[Black Parrot]

Between Santorum, Limbaugh and the rest of those jokers bible thumping their way into our bedrooms

I don't care much for Bill Maher, but he was spot-on when he said "even gay men don't think about gay sex as much as Rick Santorum does".

Total failure in so many ways

[jcrb]

I think this is one of those things for which there is a simple solution, find name of parent, all Ender's fans call parent and explain what a complete and colossal idiot they are. Problem solved. News report of parent explaining how their phone didn't stop ringing for several months convinces all future such parents to just keep their opinions to themselves.

"Pornography" is supposed to be judged by the standards of the "community", I think its time or the community to judge the standards of those who wish to judge the community.

Re:Total failure in so many ways

[Black Parrot]

"Pornography" is supposed to be judged by the standards of the "community"

And that cop-out is the very antithesis of the idea of the rule of law.

Support the teacher

[ccguy]

No wonder the educational system is going to shit since any parent can bully teachers. Seriously, if you're so annoyed about the teacher asking your kid to read any specific book then ask the teacher for an acceptable replacement (for your kid only of course). Or take your kid somewhere else. Or accept an F for that specific assignment.

I wish principals grew a spine and supported their teachers on this kind of stuff.

Re:Support the teacher

[Nimey]

I think you'll find that not every school district has a teachers' union. This is no doubt more true the further one goes into the Deep South with the deep social disapproval of unions there.

My wife, for instance, has been a high school teacher for over ten years and doesn't belong to a union.

Wow

[Anrego]

Bet this kid is popular.

He's 14 and running home to mommy because a book had naughty words in it..

I can see a parent running across the book and going full on "I'M A MOTHER, AND AS A MOTHER I FEEL.." mode while the kid stands there horribly embarrassed .. but for the kid to be the one who started it all... kid must be living in a bubble.

Re:Wow

[chispito]

Don't blame the kid if the book made him uncomfortable. It's supposed to make you uncomfortable. It's the parents that overreacted.

Re:Wow

[chispito]

Middle School includes the 8th grade. You can turn 14 in the 8th grade and not be considered especially old for your grade. That translates to turning 18 when you graduate high school. It's common.

Re:Pornographic?

[MoonBuggy]

At any rate, firing the teacher would be more than sufficient if the school decides it was a major no-no.. criminal charges is beyond ridiculous.

Firing the teacher would be absurd, criminal charges would be truly insane. The former only seems in any way legitimate because of the total insanity of the latter - not for one second does a teacher deserve to lose their job for reading a perfectly innocuous (and pretty damn good, IMO) scifi novel to a class of 14 year olds.

Re:if this... then whats next

[Jawnn]

if this, then Shakespeare has got to go as well.

Not to mention several books from The Old Testament.
Idiots...

Maybe he wasn't really reading Ender's Game

[cicatrix1]

Check out some of the comments on the source article. There are claims he was not really reading Ender's Game, and that the school is covering it up.

Re:Maybe he wasn't really reading Ender's Game

[LordNimon]

From another article:

"One of the stories was about prostitutes having their faces covered with ejaculation."

Law of Unintended Consequences

[CanHasDIY]

Not too long ago, we had a similar issue here when a local religious fanatic (who home schools his children, BTW) demanded the local high school ban, among others, Kurt Vonnegut's classic Slaugherhouse V, claiming it too was pornographic in nature.

The school ended up bowing to the holier-than-thou asshole and banned the book; however, doing so had the unexpected side effect of Slaughterhouse V becoming the most read book in the city of Republic. The Vonnegut Library even donated several hundred copies of the book to the local library, all of which were swiftly checked out.

Experience tells me Ender's Game is about to become the most read book in Shofield, SC.

Re:Law of Unintended Consequences

[dd1968]

We home school our children in no small part due to the way that public schools here have become places where religious fundamentalism is taking over. Unlike many public schools around the country, we can actually teach our children the theory of evolution. Our children can read anything that we feel they have the maturity to handle. And so on.

It is ironic to us that while home schooling used to be seen as a mechanism for right-wing religious fanatics to indoctrinate their children it is increasingly embraced by left-wing wackos like us who want their children to learn everything they can and who are repulsed by book banning and other forms of legislated censorship.

Obligatory

[bmo]

"Das war ein Vorspiel nur, dort wo man Bucher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen."

"That was but a prelude; where they burn books, they will ultimately burn people also." - Heinrich Heine "Almansor" 1821

--
BMO

Was there 3 books or one?

[Anonymous Coward]

Read an artice about this here http://geeks.thedailywh.at/2012/03/15/geek-news-classroom-controversy-of-the-day/, and it said there was three books that were read and the Enders Game was the only one that was known that the teacher read. So it's possible that something inappropriate was read to the children if that story wasn't off.

Re:Pornographic?

[NEDHead]

ASSUMPTION ALERT! As if we believe she can read. Actually raises the bigger question - middle school and the teacher was reading to the students? Can't they read yet themselves?

google to the rescue

[buddyglass]

Here's one guy who thinks Ender's Game is porn, just not the "sex" kind.

According to original report it wasn't Enders Game

[dtolman]

The original story reported it a bit differently:
"According to the incident report, a teacher had been reading pornographic material from the Internet to the students in class. One of the stories was about prostitutes having their faces covered with ejaculation."

---

Unless this is the writer's cut that my library didn't stock - this wasn't enders game they were reading.

Re:if this... then whats next

[bmo]

I would say that the entire Bible is harmful to the intellectually weak.

--
BMO

Who the fuck reads novels to 14 year olds?

[Overzeetop]

Sorry, but by 14 you should be reading all by yourself. You'll be legal to drive in 2 years. Unless this is just a sample passage to illustrate a style why in the world are they "reading to children" who are this old?

I'd be hard pressed to justify EG as even mildly offensive for someone of that age. Now, if they'd read The Lost Gate - okay, maybe - there are some awkward passages for truly cloistered young teens (I decided it's a little much for my nine year old, and she can wait a couple of years).

I say we stop having story time for 14 year olds and teach them to read. I'd be pissed about this if it happened in a school my kid was in because it sounds like a waste of valuable teaching time.

Re:Who the fuck reads novels to 14 year olds?

[netsavior]

14 year-olds won't just read if you tell them to. Reading a book to them that is actually exciting and fun and age apropriate is a great way to inspire a love of reading, rather than attempting to emulate the appearance of it for a test. By the time I was 14 I had great expectations assigned to me 3 times. I never read that boring piece of antiquated crap more than once. I have read ender's game a few times... The first run-in with science fiction I ever had was when my dad read me stories from I, Robot when I was a kid; you can bet I was old enough to read at the time, but I didn't have any reason to believe that books could be anything but school assignments before that.

It sucks that in this case it didn't happen until the kids were 14, but I can think of a lot worse things a teacher can do than attempt to instill a love of reading on their kids... like Test Prep, for example.

This doesn't sound correct...

[fahrbot-bot]

The school district, however, appears to agree with the parent, is considering firing the teacher and will be eliminating the book from the school.

If they will be "eliminating the book from the school", then it was probably on the approved reading list, then the teacher is not at fault (so to speak), but the school (district). My wife was a teacher for many, many years and, on those occasions she wanted to teach off the approved list, would send letters to and obtain signatures from parents. Children of parents that objected would get a book from the approved list and separate assignments. (She was awarded as one of the best teachers in the school district and state, BTW.)

Also worth mentioning, from TFA, is that the teacher also read the following books to her students with, apparently, no complaints:

The other books were ‘Devil’s Paintbox’ by Victoria McKearnan and ‘Curtain: Poirot’s Last Case’, written by Agatha Christie.

the three books

[ogrevirus]

I found this list of books in the comment section of this page: http://www.aikenstandard.com/story/031512-school-board-releases-statement-to-enders-game-book The three books are Ender's Game (Card), Devils Paintbox (), and Curtain, Poirots Last Case (Agatha Christie)

I think I know what happened here.

[bistromath007]

Kid: "These two kids beat each other up in the shower."

Parent: "Did you just say two kids beat each other off in the shower?!?!?"

American educational system: "SHUT. DOWN. EVERYTHING."

Why stay at home?

[khasim]

Your circumstances are perfect for getting involved politically.

Start locally. Have you written a PAPER letter to your Congress critters yet? To your governor? To your state legislature?

If not, why not?

Have you volunteered for a political candidate?

Re:Why stay at home?

[Anrego]

Start locally. Have you written a PAPER letter to your Congress critters yet? To your governor? To your state legislature?

I'm Canadian, but have done so to the equivalents. Received the usual form letter reply for the most part.

Have you volunteered for a political candidate?

All the candidates mostly agree with each other on the issues I care about.

Re:Why stay at home?

[Anonymous Coward]

Start locally. Have you written a PAPER letter to your Congress critters yet? To your governor? To your state legislature?

I'm Canadian, but have done so to the equivalents. Received the usual form letter reply for the most part.

Have you volunteered for a political candidate?

All the candidates mostly agree with each other on the issues I care about.

That sums it all up. Canada is so apathetic, they even dropped the 'M' from 'Meh'.

well that seems... heyyyyy, wait a minute!

[roc97007]

Someone explain this to me:

> "and will be eliminating the book from the school."

According to TFA, the kids were fourteen, so that makes it freshman year in high school. (The book is rated 12 and over.)

The quote indicates that the book was available at the school, most probably in the school library.

So let me get this straight:

The teacher reads an age-appropriate book, available at the school, to students in the class, and gets fired? Seriously?

I predict that if this story goes viral, the school will suddenly reconsider.

Are we getting the whole story?

[91degrees]

I found anotherarticle ,

According to the incident report, a teacher had been reading pornographic material from the Internet to the students in class. One of the stories was about prostitutes having their faces covered with ejaculation.

Is it possible that the teacher wasn't reading these books at all, but was, for some reason, reading something downloaded from the internet?

Somebody is lying, I'm not sure who.

So, Thatcher was right

[SmallFurryCreature]

Congratulations slave, you have proven the Conservatives right, they believed that making the working class home owners would turn them into good reliable little workers unwilling to risk the house they can't afford with silly things such as looking for a new job, or even thinking about striking.

Why bother with capturing slaves when the feeble just whip themselves?

Mind you, you wouldn't be so bad, if the bleeding hearts wouldn't feel sorry you if you get slaughtered in the revolution. But somehow, your kind then suddenly turns into "innocent" citizens and not supporters of the regime.

Re:So, Thatcher was right

[Anrego]

unwilling to risk the house they can't afford

Almost paid for.. never had any major financial trouble in my life. Just because some people bought houses way out of their price range doesn't mean every home owner ends up screwing themselves. I went for a reasonably priced house with a reasonable term mortgage and 30% down payment (protip: if you can't save up at least 20% within a reasonable time.. do't buy it!) and with room to breath in the event of a major interest rate hike or other financial hardship.

I've lived within my means and have kept up on my retirement savings.

Why bother with capturing slaves when the feeble just whip themselves?

Yes.. job I like, decent money, house, car, time to spend on my hobbies.. my life is just terrible. I get that the people struggling down there are frustrated, and it's nice to think that the middle class only think they are happy but are really suffering.. however the truth is we are for the most part legitimately happy. That's why we arn't out protesting...

Slaughtered in the revolution.

The middle class probably need to be on board to have a hope in hell in getting anywhere with that one.

Then again, I'm Canadian... thing's arn't _as_ bleak up here yet.

Re:So, Thatcher was right

[jd]

What you are doing is precisely what I would recommend others do - stay diversified, have many interests that are at most tangentially related, be aware of the wider world, exercise (but not to excess), etc. Stagnation is "easy" and so creates the surface illusion of comfort together with an undercurrent of depression. Based on what you've said, I'm willing to accept that that is something you've avoided in most - if not all - things. There might be areas you could tweak, where you've got a little inflexible, a little rusty, but I doubt you'd get a major boost there. If you keep on expanding the diversity, experiment with new hobbies at random when you get bored of the familiar, etc, then you'll probably find you stay at your typical level of happiness far more than you would if you didn't keep growing, but you probably do that already as well.

I'm not convinced that the majority of the middle class are anything like as mentally or physically agile. There, I would expect a dramatic emotional (and mental) boost from improving the variety in their life AND boosting the rate of change of the variety in their life. You want the first-order differential to be non-zero.

What else? I can only suggest the tediously obvious -- keep everything you do a challenge - enough of one to be interesting and stimulating but no more. Maximizes your odds of benefiting and how much you'll benefit by, which in turn will give you assorted blasts of brain chemicals, which in turn triggers neurogenesis, which in turn creates a long-term boost in your happiness. Seratonin, endorphins - all good stuff, but that gives you a buzz for a few seconds. Boost neurogenesis and the baseline happiness will be increased for the next 3-4 years.

This is part of why stagnation is depressing. The brain is extremely energy-intensive to keep going. The body, having evolved to conserve energy, won't waste it on cells that are not utilized. Of course, most of the brain IS utilized, but there is measurable shrinkage when people do stagnate. Just as cell birth (neurogenesis) raises the baseline mood, cell death lowers it. In consequence, people who are stagnant are more depressed than they would otherwise be. Not necessarily more depressed than average -- a naturally cheerful person who is stagnant may still be "cheerful" (and I'm sure you know lots of those), but it's obvious to look at that that cheer is nothing but a hollow shell of the potential the person actually has. They could be the happiest person alive and yet still be gloomier than they need be.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:Not everyone's cup of tea.

[g0bshiTe]

Yes, because if you ignore fascism it will never crop up. I think that would be the whole point is showing what a fascist society would be like. Similar to George Orwell and 1984. Most people probably could do without the big brother crap, but again if you turn a blind eye, look what happens.

Re:According to original report it wasn't Enders G

[swillden]

This article mentions it.

There's no sex in Ender's Game.

[Animats]

There's no sex at all in the original short story. Some of the later stuff, as they grow up, has some sex, but it's not a big issue.

Actually, Ender's Game is a naive view of the political effectiveness of blogging.

Interrupting your regularly scheduled rant:

[Hartree]

But the articles linked are very long on speculation and very short on info.

Parent makes complaint about something bizarre happening in the classroom. Teacher is suspended pending investigation.

Let me assure you, this happens outside of the south. Let me also assure you it happens in politically diverse communities.

Being the son of a high school teacher, I've heard this story a lot of times.

There are a lot of possibilities here. The complaint apparently was that the teacher read something about semen coating the faces of prostitutes. That certainly isn't in Ender's Game.

So, maybe it's in the other two books mentioned. But, that's doubtful given the books (Agatha Christie and a book aimed at young teens.)

So, we could have a kid (for whatever reason, but being nutty, or disliking the teacher are a couple possibilities or on a dare from friends) telling parents something that didn't happen.

Or, we could have a parent that's kinda mental, or having a bad week, or a drunken rage etc, etc . That happens with alarming regularity when you have to deal with large numbers of parents. Most are fine, some are messed up.

Much, much farther down the list is that it's due to a conservative and or southern conspiracy or any other societal factor.

As to the suspension. School administrations are historically the most pusillanimous bunch of cover your butt bureaucrats there are. Especially if the parent is a known problem, or someone of influence in the community.

But, if you want to elevate the less likely to the fore, then Occam's Razor isn't going to stop you.

Not about Ender's Game.

[DaveV1.0]

Apparently, this has less to do with Ender's Game than it does with something the teacher was reading which involved prostitutes getting facials.

Just dodged the bullet on that one...

[fermat1313]

Back in the 90s, I was a middle school math teacher. I always felt my job as a teacher was to educate a rounded person, so I included non-math discussions and assignments from time-to-time. One of my classes was Algebra II, taught to 8th and 9th graders. These were advanced students, and I enjoyed teaching about things outside the math world, some of which related to math, some of which didn't.

For this class, I generally offered some extra credit points to students who completed an out-of-class reading assignment. I listed books like Flatland, The God Particle, and yes, Ender's Game. I warned my students that it had some violence and harsh language, and left it up to them to decide. Never got any complaints from any parents, fortunately. After reading this, that book would probably go off my list.

I do agree it showed bad judgement to read this book to a classroom, full of students with varying levels of maturity, and students with vastly different tastes for violence and strong language. I would have never done that. Firing the teacher? Calling the book pornographic? That simply ludicrous

As usual the Summary is horribly wrong

[sdguero]

But this time the original article was flawed too, and it ahs subsequently been updated (although I'm sure 95% of /. readers will never know that). Supposedly the teacher read stuff off the internet to the class that was "pornographic" and Card himself has said he heard what was read and it WAS inappropriate for kids (and he maintained that his book is perfectly OK for 14 years olds).

Outrageous!!!

[richieb]

They have books in South Carolina!!

Hippie Punching comment

[Uberbah]

So a parent whining about "pornography" - an inherently conservative position - is the fault of the left? And there is one thing that helps to stop stupid crap like this in it's tracks: teacher's unions.

I wonder how conservatives maintain the disconnect between complaining over nontroversies like Ender's Gate threatening a teacher AND then with a straight face claim that our schools will magically improve when we kill off the last teacher's union.

Lots of updates ....

[will_die]

There have been a lots of updates since this summary was written.
The reading on pornographic material was separate material and not in the books mentioned. It may or may not of happened.
The complaint from the parent mentions swearing and use of guns and violence.

As a Teacher...

[SmarterThanMe]

I can't say that this situation is all that unusual. Parents, particularly parents who are stay-at-home, have way too much time on their hands and involve themselves up to their armpits in the lives of their children. I have worked at schools where parents arrive at the schoolgrounds at lunchtime, and hang around on campus until the end of the day. For several weeks, parents lined up against the windows of one of the classrooms and stared at their children in class for the hour and fifteen minutes from the end of lunch to the end of the day. This continued until the teacher posted artwork blocking the parents view into the classroom from those windows. The parents promptly complained to the principal, and the teacher was ordered to take them down. That teacher (and almost every other teacher at the school) refuses to teach in that exposed classroom.

I've been the subject of ridiculous complaints also. I was too hard on a kid when I separated him for calling one of the girls a "cheating dog" (for using a calculator during a maths activity where I had explicitly allowed the class to use calculators). I take the roll at the wrong time of the day. I set too much homework (and, conversely, I don't set enough homework; a complaint made by the same parent). I don't hand notes out (I prefer to lay out the notes at the front of the class, and the kids are meant to pick them up as they leave). I don't insist that someone's little baby (senior elementary student) wear a raincoat if it looks rainy outside, and I don't help that student to put that raincoat on. I drink Ginger Beer which comes in a bottle that looks like it's a bottle of real beer (that it isn't is beside the point also, because Ginger Beer has the word "beer" in it, and therefore, I'm setting a poor example to students). I advocate the use of facebook (which is actually Edmodo, which, I'll admit, does look a lot like facebook, but isn't). I am biased against or for particular students because I select them for debate teams, public speaking competitions or sport (sometimes I am still biased against particular students when I'm not involved at all in the selection or non-selection of them for various opportunities). On and on and on. Most of these complaints are, as other commenters have noted, housewives with too much time on their hands. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that I have had a good principal who, for the most part, only wastes a little bit of her and my time every so often to investigate and respond to these claims.

That being said, I think that teachers and educational institutions have to acknowledge some responsibility in allowing this to happen. We encourage a dialogue between parents and teachers on an equal level, and we don't say all that much when unqualified pundits make educational claims that are simply wrong. Anyone, no matter how unqualified, will happily make claims about education and expect that those claims have equal footing with qualifie

Re:Gotta love the religious types

[silentcoder]

More importantly. God promises he won't destroy it "with water, but will do so with fire" (which is what revelations then details... but contrary to the good congresscritter, it only speaks about what God will do. It never says "you will not destroy yourselves."

TRUTH ACTUALLY MUNDANE!

[As_I_Please]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/03/21/south-carolina-teacher-suspended-for-reading-students-enders-game-will-not-face-criminal-charges/

In short, a parent's overreaction caused the school's overreaction. The teacher will get a "slap on the wrist" for including materials without following proper procedure. There will be no criminal charges.

Oh, and the reading of internet stories about prostitutes was a complete fabrication.