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Tennessee Passes Bill That Allows "Teaching the Controversy" of Evolution

Layzej writes "The Tennessee Senate has passed a bill that allows teachers to 'teach the controversy' on evolution, global warming and other scientific subjects. Critics have called it a 'monkey bill' that promotes creationism in classrooms. In a statement sent to legislators, eight members of the National Academy of Science said that, in practice, the bill will likely lead to 'scientifically unwarranted criticisms of evolution.' and that 'By undermining the teaching of evolution in Tennessee's public schools, HB368 and SB893 would miseducate students, harm the state's national reputation, and weaken its efforts to compete in a science-driven global economy.'"

30 of 1,108 comments (clear)

  1. There's Your Problem Right There by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The Senate approved a bill Monday evening that deals with teaching of evolution and other scientific theories ...

    Well, there's your problem, right there. The overall concept of evolution is no longer a theory. Surely even the staunchest of Creationists must acknowledge the so called "short-term" evolution that gives us the ability to manipulate plants or breed wolves into dogs.

    Yes, as with most fields, a long time ago there were sets of theories. Like prior to Watson and Crick, back when you had Darwinian Evolution, Larmarckian Evolution, etc. Not anymore though. You might have theories about very specific things in the field that might be impossible to prove -- like, say, what the Last Eukaryotic Common Ancestor (LECA) looked like -- but Evolution is no longer a theory. The field moves forward while Tennessee makes themselves look like idiots from some forgotten era.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by binarylarry · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This isn't about the facts.

      I mean the creationist counter argument is that it contradicts a bunch of fairy tales written thousands of years ago by sand people.

      You aren't going to be able to get the idea of evolution through that brainwashed blank stare they throw up when you start talking about science.

      --
      Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
    2. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by lgw · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Exactly. A friend of mine went to high school in Georgia. The biology teacher was legally required to teach evolution. Here's how she taught it.

      "Today, I'm legally required to teach evolution. We all believe in Jesus, right? OK, next topic."

      I doubt the Tenesee law will change much in the classroom, merely decriminalize common behavior.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    3. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by JaneTheIgnorantSlut · · Score: 5, Informative

      Don't you mean "sun is the center of our solar system"?

    4. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by SuricouRaven · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually creationists have many counterarguments. You picked one of the more intelligent ones.

    5. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by wasabii · · Score: 5, Informative

      Evolution is still a theory. And a fact. The terms aren't exclusive.

    6. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sorry.

      Don't worry about it Flyerman ... er ... jhoegl ... ?

      In theory, how many accounts do you have? Enough to that you were flipping through them to mod yourself up as far as you could when you noticed your error?

    7. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      On the contrary, science has always touted the fact that everything it discovers as theory.

      Discoveries are not theories. Theories are models which attempt to explain discoveries. Evolution is one such model which attempts to explain the discovered speciation.

    8. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      This isn't about the facts.

      I mean the creationist counter argument is that it contradicts a bunch of fairy tales written thousands of years ago by sand people.

      You aren't going to be able to get the idea of evolution through that brainwashed blank stare they throw up when you start talking about science.

      Am I the only person who read "sand people" and immediately thought of the deserts of Tatooine *hoooooooark hoark hoark*?

    9. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 5, Informative

      Grandparent is misusing the word "theory" in exactly the same way the creationists do. Hint: is isn't synonymous with "notion" or "hypothesis".

    10. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by gratuitous_arp · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When scientists say "theory" they mean something different than what most other people think of when they use the word. "Theory" is used in the "I'm pretty sure the thing I'm typing on is a keyboard, but I could be hallucinating and giving my cat, Whiskers, a backrub" sense. It's the best information that humans have, but we are humble enough to permit the idea that there is something unknown about the subject that could, if someday discovered by research, invalidate it.

      It's correct to call evolution a scientific theory, people just don't understand why the word "theory" is used here and it gets misused into making evolution look less like "the only game in town."

    11. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Perhaps creationism has a place in a course on logic (eg. ontological, prime mover etc). I think to ensure freedom of religion or at least to keep the schools free from a biased view of religion it needs to be not only from the christian standpoint and more of an academic course rather than just a "we are a christian society and this is what christian's should believe" kind of course. I see nothing wrong with teaching religion as part of history, logic/philosophy, etc. It is a massive part of society. Even atheists often point to religious objects (churches, vatican, paintings etc) as being some of the finest works of art. It would be a shame to ignore the background of everything and just look at the paintings as pretty pictures. So much of the field was controlled by the church funding it, people's rather dreary look at the human state etc that the (mostly Catholic) church instilled in people in the 14-19th centuries. Similarly with science: we can't ignore the fact that these ideas had huge impact as to how people view themselves in relation to the universe and that there are still a large number of people that reject the ideas outright, or would modify them to include that God controls evolution to serve His purpose.

      Separating the church from the state doesn't necessarily everyone in the state needs to remain ignorant of things religious just that the state shouldn't be controlled by the church(shrine, temple, insert whatever name you use for whatever building you consider sacred). I think the state has no place to say which religion is right but teaching facts about a religion and its place in history and culture? No problem there IMHO.

    12. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by chill · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wikipedia puts it well. A physical law is a summary observation of strictly empirical matters, whereas a theory is a model that accounts for the observation, explains it, relates it to other observations, and makes testable predictions based upon it. Simply stated, while a law notes that something happens, a theory explains why and how something happens.

      Also keep in mind Newton's "Law" of Gravitation is only a good approximation of low-mass behavior. When you say "Law of Nature" people assume graven in stone, unchanging and absolute. But that isn't what it means.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    13. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Funny

      Shhh... he took a semester of school in Tennessee...

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    14. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by jeffmeden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are classes on religion and that's where this stuff belongs. A class on science has no business talking about religion.

      And really this whole freedom of religion is really just that the government shall establish no state religion. Not that religions should have free reign to do whatever the hell they want.

      Not that this is even worth mentioning, but the Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" which goes a bit further than just "we won't have a state religion" and says that we *won't* have any law that specifically establishes (endorses) a religion as the precedent for governing (or running a government school.)

    15. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by AdrianKemp · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I am still stunned that people think this way...

      You (not you, they) believe in the bible and Jesus and invisible friends in the sky, great. That in no way interferes with the proven fact that organisms evolve based on their surroundings.

      Even if you want to completely dismiss that humans evolved, you should still (as an educator, no matter how dumb) desire to pass on knowledge.

    16. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by cpu6502 · · Score: 5, Informative

      >>>Evolution is no longer a theory.

      Last time I looked it up, textbooks still said "Theory of Evolution" not "Law of Evolution". In fact I've had many professors over the years argue even Newton's Law of Gravity should be renamed a Theory, since the misnamed "law" has been debunked by later discoveries over the centuries.

      In science ALL things are theories, because we will never have a complete understanding and the theories are eventually proven wrong (or at least flawed). Maybe if we evolve into the Q we'll finally understand it all, but that's definitely not the case now.

      We have theories of how the world works.
      Not absolutes. Not laws.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    17. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A science class that doesn't teach the history of science is practically religion itself. You don't teach science (well) by listing a load of current theories. You start with simple theories and go through the observations and experiments that invalidated them. Creationism definitely has a place there, because that is what people believed. You start by explaining that people believed that species never changed, and then list some of the examples that disproved this. Then you go on to things like ring species that demonstrate that the concept of a species is itself somewhat flawed and that speciation is a gradual process.

      Science is a process, and without teaching the history surrounding each step in the process it's very hard for students to distinguish it from dogma.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    18. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by netsavior · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Don't forget we should be teaching biblical Pi instead of heathen devil math.

      "And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one rim to the other it was round all about, and...a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about....And it was an hand breadth thick...." — First Kings, chapter 7, verses 23 and 26

      Clearly Pi = 3
      Sinners.

    19. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by Ihmhi · · Score: 5, Funny

      you could almost say that the arguments evolve.

      Well, we can at least say for sure that they weren't intelligently designed.

    20. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 5, Informative

      The US has never been "a Christian nation". Which men "of faith" wrote in our freedoms?

      Jefferson who rewrote the bible taking out the "superstitious nonsense". Perhaps Quincy Adams who we have letters that he wrote mocking Christianity and talking of it disdainfully. Perhaps George Washington who refused any religious solace on his deathbed and expressed that he didn't want a Christian burial service.

      Perhaps Benjamin Franklin- who we also have written evidence that he did not believe in a God still currently active in watching humanity.

      Perhaps we're talking about the senate under the second president who unanimously signed the Treaty of Tripoli after it was read out (that included the words probably not verbatim "The United States Of America is and never has been a Christian nation").

      The vast majority of those that "wrote-those freedoms" would be offended if you called them Christian.

      The fact is- everyone should be allowed to worship however they darn please. But don't try fooling people or rewriting history to make it seem like it is a "recent-innovation" that this is a non-Christian country. Even Abraham Lincoln, the president responsible for preserving the union many years after the founding fathers wrote an essay exposing the evil of religion, specifically Christianity.

      We are a secular nation. We should be a secular nation. Let people worship whatever god they want- but keep it out of politics and government. Remember the religious have the most to lose. If government and religion are not seperate- that means Obama is executive head of religion. You must recognise him as the authority in religion.

      Is that what you want? It works both ways- even when a leftie non religious man is in power- he is still the head of religion in you dystopian view of the United States where religion and government are one.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    21. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by gorzek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I beg to differ. "Intelligent Design" implies that some level of intelligent forethought went into the eventual products of evolution. Saying "God guided the process" or otherwise suggesting that evolution can work in a deterministic fashion is utterly wrongheaded and unscientific, and it gives people the false impression that evolution, as a process, is in some way goal-oriented. But it isn't, and it never has been. You'd be surprised how many people believe evolution is about making less complex organisms into more complex ones, or making the next generation "better" in some objective way than the current one. They imagine it as an iterative improvement process, building toward something specific.

      If people understood that evolution does not actually work that way, "Intelligent Design" would be a completely moot point.

    22. Re:There's Your Problem Right There by readin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its amazing that she could get a degree in biology without "believing" in evolution. It's a bit like a physicist that doesn't believe in gravity. Next biology topic: Locusts only have four legs!

      For the specific example of the biology teacher - I don't care whether the biology teacher believes in evolution or not. I want a teacher who can present the evidence and the theory in a clear and interesting way, without getting preachy for either side of the debate.

      So you believe that for someone to properly study Islam, they must believe in Islam? For someone to be a student of Greek gods and goddesses, the person must believe in those gods and goddesses?

      I think my eighth grade teacher handled the question perfectly. When he introduced the topic he said we didn't have to agree with the theory but that to be educated people in the modern world we had to understand it. If I remember correctly, some (perhaps most) of the test questions started with the phrase, "According to the theory of evolution...".

      Assuming that the evidence and the logic speak for themselves, the students will be able to decide for themselves so long as they have the evidence and the theory presented to them, so there is no need to get upset that the teacher isn't trying to force the students to believe in the theory - they can figure it out.

      --
      I often don't like the choices people make, but I like the fact that people make choices. That's why I'm a conservative.
  2. Science should be taught in science class. by Kenja · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Just as math should be taught in math class and so on. If you want to teach religion in a class dedicated to the subject, I'm OK with that. But it would need to cover ALL religions and beliefs, which I think people would throw the hissy fit to end all hissy fits over.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
  3. Fine by fiannaFailMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's start teaching holocaust denial in history class then. It's a "controversy" too, right? And any lessons that touch on recent events should also teach the "controversy" about 9/11 being an inside job. Chemistry lessons should be augmented by alchemy.

    If all alternative points of view (including the batshit insane ones) are equally valid, you have to.

    --
    Drill baby drill - on Mars
  4. Teaching in this state. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    As a mathematics/science teacher in this fine state, I don't have a huge problem with this. I just made my students write a paper on Russell's Teapot, so I feel like I balanced it out.

    But seriously, anybody that thinks these two pieces of paper mean anything...they don't. They say they allow for these things, doesn't mean we have to. And we won't.

  5. Could have been great by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's too bad they didn't do this properly. There ARE controversies in evolutionary theory. They're not controversies in whether or not evolution works, but there IS disagreement in the specific mechanisms of evolution. Punctuated equilibrium or phyletic gradualism? Duke it out! Teach those controversies!

    Oh wait, I guess I'm asking for science to be taught in science class. My bad.

  6. Re:Finite wisdom of a state legislature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Because all those scientist are elitist.

    If, "I have mountains of observational evidence for a well considered theory, you have magic stories, therefore we should not teach your silliness in a classroom as if it resembles science.", is elitist... then at least it's well founded elitism.

    Here's to hoping that this absurd bit of legislation opens the door for good teachers to finally, openly hammer these ridiculous superstitions in the classroom, without fear of reprisal.

    You wanted your batshit theories in the classroom, and went as far as to use government intervention to get it there? Fine. Now you have to deal with having its long list of scientific inadequacies laid bare before your children.

    Obviously it was designed for state sanctioned religious indoctrination in our schools, but it just might have a silver lining.

  7. 4 legs, 6 limbs by number6x · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Sure they have 4 legs. And 2 arms!

    A better way to get a fundamentalist confused is to ask them "Who was created first, Adam and Eve or the animals?"

    Tell them to check both the first and second chapter of Genesis. If they stop after the first, they will only have one answer. It cannot have hapened both ways, it must be one or the other (or neither), so therefore the Bible is not 100% true. At minimum one chapter or the other must be false. It could be that both are false, but they might burn you at the stake for saying that.

    If you don't know the answer, it only takes a few minutes to read both chapters. Then follow up and ask 'Was Adam or Eve created first? Or, were they created at the same time?" (the answer is both. Adam was created first and they were created at exactly the same time).

    Self consistency is not a strong point in the Bible. That is very strange because any scientist will tell you that the universe is amazingly self consistent. Any seeming paradoxes are usually signs that our understanding and knowledge is lacking. If Both the universe and the bible are both from the same author, you would think that they would show the same level of self consistency.

    How do I know the Bible isn't 100% true? Because my Bible tells me so.

    The only thing I can see in Genesis that is an absolute truth is near the start of chapter 2. The bit about the harvest being ready and not a man to be found. Any woman will confirm that when there is work to be done there is never a Man around :)

  8. The scientist's side got it wrong, too, though! by beh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From TFA:
    In a statement sent to legislators, eight members of the National Academy of Science said that, in practice, the bill will likely [...] harm the state's national reputation[...]

    The scientists got it wrong as well - thanks to blogging, like the publication here on Slashdot, the bill harms the state's INTERnational reputation... ;-)