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New Samsung TV Watches You Watching It

Posted by samzenpus on from the who's-watching-who? dept.

CanHasDIY writes "Straight out of 1984, Samsung has unveiled a new series of televisions with integrated cameras and microphones, complete with facial and voice recognition software. Best of all, there appears to be no physical indication of the mic and camera's status, so consumers have no way of knowing when they're being monitored, or by whom... and if you don't find the idea of a TV that watches you creepy enough, apparently Samsung's Terms of Service include a clause allowing third-party apps to make use of the monitoring system, and use the data gathered for their own purposes. Nothing Orwellian about that..."

54 of 320 comments (clear)

  1. Soviet Russia jokes overload by blind+biker · · Score: 5, Funny

    Look guys, it's just too easy.

    --
    "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    1. Re:Soviet Russia jokes overload by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      In Soviet America, TV watches you.

    2. Re:Soviet Russia jokes overload by Nugoo · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not only too easy, it's one of Yakov Smirnoff's actual jokes.

      --
      I explicitly release the above into the public domain.
    3. Re:Soviet Russia jokes overload by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Look guys, it's just too easy.

      'Biker!' screamed the shrewish voice from the telescreen. '1066130 Blind Biker! Yes, you! Post faster, please!'

      A sudden hot sweat had broken out all over Biker's body. His face remained completely inscrutable. Never show dismay! Never show resentment! A single click of the mouse could give you away. He stood watching while the moderator raised her cursor above his post and -- one could not say gracefully, but with remarkable neatness and efficiency -- clicked the +1, Funny button.

      'There, citizens! That's how I want to see you doing it. Watch me again. I've got thirty-nine tabs open and I've got four alts. Now look.' She made another post. 'You see my keyboard isn't crufty. You can all do it if you want to," she added as she clicked on another post. 'Anyone with under forty-five tabs open is perfectly capable of getting a solid first post. We don't all have the privilege of fighting in the front line, but at least we can all keep fit. Remember our boys in the Chans! And the screening bots in the NSA datacenters! Just think what they have to put up with. Now try again. That's better, comrade, that's much better,' she added encouragingly as Biker, with a violent lunge, succeeded in achieving a (+5, Funny) on a first post, for the first time in several years.

      - Anonymous Coward, 2012

    4. Re:Soviet Russia jokes overload by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Easy; but actually deeply misleading...

      If there is a lesson of the various socialist surveillance dystopias, it is that unaided state surveillance is too expensive to survive(y hello thar, East Germany) and tends to stifle out of fear the new technologies that would ultimately help it prosper(rather like the MPAA...)

      In good old free world, on the other hand, technological development and the enthusiastic forces of private enterprise produce all the groundwork needed for surveillance and control of the sort that the Evil Empire could only dream of, just waiting to be subpeonaed when needed...

    5. Re:Soviet Russia jokes overload by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Funny

      In capitalist Russia, Yakov Smirnoff sues you for copyright infringement!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    6. Re:Soviet Russia jokes overload by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 4, Insightful

      it is that unaided state surveillance is too expensive to survive(y hello thar, East Germany) and tends to stifle out of fear the new technologies that would ultimately help it prosper(rather like the MPAA...)

      Couple of things.

      1) Cameras are a lot cheaper now.

      2) East Germans weren't primarily afraid of the Stasi. They were afraid of their own neighbors. The surveillance state successfully co-opted the populace into doing its grunt work for free. That part hasn't changed, and won't, because at the end of the day, people are finks.

      So, yes, unaided state surveillance may be too expensive to be feasible... but it wasn't, and won't, be unaided.

  2. Samsung, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Can't be. I don't recall reading about Apple releasing a television set that watches you while you watch it.

    1. Re:Samsung, huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      i just laughed so hard milk came out of my nose... and I wasn't even drinking milk.

    2. Re:Samsung, huh? by Tastecicles · · Score: 3, Interesting

      that's the point - if you're not in front of the zombie box, soaking up TOWIE/BGT/Eastenders/whateverothershiteisonthesedays, then it is assumed that you're up to no good. Ergo, you be fucked.

      --
      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  3. Omnipresent Surveillance by mhajicek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Omnipresent surveillance is inevitable, and will change society dramatically. The question what we choose to do with it.

    1. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I choose to reject it. Not easy, but it can be done.

    2. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by cpu6502 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Common response: "If you're not breaking the law, why wouldn't you let the cops search your car? (Or track you with cameras?) (Or record all your internet actions?)" -- It's amazing how easily americans are to give up their freedom to the government tyrants.

      --
      My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    3. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by TheCouchPotatoFamine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the best answer is always "to protect others whose freedom of political and spiritual expression is threatened by your actions". Always.

      --
      CS majors know the time/space tradeoff, but they never get taught the 3rd, crucial, tradeoff of the set: comprehension!
    4. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by wierd_w · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh hush. It's very easy.

      50 cent roll of electrical tape. Cut a 3x3cm square using scissors. Place it over the camera aperature.

      1$ bottle of superglue. The watery runny kind that whicks up into paper, and has a long neck applicator. Lay the television temporarily on a soft, cushioned surface face up, say, on the sofa. Into the microphone grill, gently dribble the runny superglue. Leave in this position for 2 to 3 hours for maximal cone set. Return television to the entertainment center, and feel marginally safer.

      The first one is obvious how it works, but the second helps prevent the vibrational movement of the microphone pickup, greatly reducing its sensitivity. Sufficiently glued so that the cone can't move the coil, or the piezo crystal can't be flexed, and you have basically neutered it without opening the system unit.

      These little steps are not hard at all. The hard part is staunchly refusing to buy such an intrusive Little whore of a gadget in the first place, as the powers that be all try like mad to get you to swallow that shit pill, and telescreen sensors become standard features.

      Shit like this is why I refuse to buy stuff like the kinect. While you can unplug the ethernet cable on your console to ensure the thought police and social services don't see you spanking junior on candid camera, (with audio and motion tracking!), the act of buying an obvious spying device and installing it in your home tells fucked up marketing assholes that you want MOAR spying. I don't want to send that message.

    5. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by Master+Moose · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is, by bypassing the "feature" you are still paying for it, which will encourage Samgsung and other TV makers to continue to inculde it.

      --
      . . .gone when the morning comes
    6. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by wierd_w · · Score: 2

      A couple back room deals, and this becomes very difficult.

      Your standard coaxial cable hookup doubles as a physical layer support for ethernet. Just takes a clandestine cable modem being integrated into the box to report back for "quality assurance", and you have a connection that cannot be "unplugged" unless you want to ditch your cable provider, or attach a frequency scrubber in-line before the TV. (Potentially eliminating your ability to use PPV, remote DVR, etc.)

      Trust me, if this kind of shit gets pushed, "unplug the internet!" Won't be so easy to do while using the TV as intended.

    7. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Re: It will never be true in my house.
      Depends who is giving you your computer, device or job?
      A school can network to your home with little public comment about camera use
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbins_v._Lower_Merion_School_District
      The background paperwork once needed for high risk, cleared work is now becoming normal
      http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/job-applicants-asked-turn-facebook-passwords-article-1.1047427
      Then you have the CIA hinting at the joy of a fully networked US home
      http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/petraeus-tv-remote/

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    8. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by EdIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rejecting bullshit like that is about as easy as rejecting 3D televisions and cable TV. Practically no effort at all....

    9. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by gbjbaanb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      actually, it's even easier. Leave the entire TV in its box. In the shop.

    10. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because you don't want those "features", but all the other HDTV makers jumped on the bandwagon too, and you simply can't find a non-bugged set?

      That's how this kind of thing becomes ubiquitous you know.

    11. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

      Even better, have it work over the cellular network. It's feasible to have a TV that doesn't hook up to the cable system (satellite TV, Free OTA, etc), but most people live in an area that is accessible by some form of cellular service. As long as the thought police could log into you TV and watch and listen to you (even at low quality) they can do their job. Unless you don't buy a TV (another reason for you to be a suspect) or make your house a faraday cage, then they basically have access to your house.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    12. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by godel_56 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Oh hush. It's very easy.

      50 cent roll of electrical tape. Cut a 3x3cm square using scissors. Place it over the camera aperature.

      1$ bottle of superglue. The watery runny kind that whicks up into paper, and has a long neck applicator. Lay the television temporarily on a soft, cushioned surface face up, say, on the sofa. Into the microphone grill, gently dribble the runny superglue. Leave in this position for 2 to 3 hours for maximal cone set. Return television to the entertainment center, and feel marginally safer.

      >

      Ooops. yo've just invalidated your warranty

      From TFA Samsung says:

      Samsung assumes no responsibility, and shall not be liable, in connection with whether any such products or services will be appropriate, functional or supported for the Samsung products or services available in your country.

      and

      Want to read the owner’s manual for your new Samsung TV? This is accomplished by download, as Samsung stopped including printed owner’s manuals at least two years ago. However, before you may download the manual, you must first agree to the following online statement: Samsung assumes no responsibility, and shall not be liable, in connection with whether any such products or services will be appropriate, functional or supported for the Samsung products or services available in your country.

      In Australia, not only would these statements not have any legal standing, I suspect one or both may actually be in violation of consumer protection laws.

    13. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by EdIII · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sure it is no effort at all.

      Just don't have any form of traditional television that is ridiculously super expensive and run by assholes that *think* they can control the distribution.

      I have Netflix and torrents. Recently, I started doing the torrents again for some TV instead of waiting for the DVD releases which have no overlay advertisements of any kind. The new webrip torrents are awesome. No commercials, and all those annoying overlays are history.

      Before you say it is pirating, that is merely a point of view, not a fact. Anything they broadcast into my home is something I can store or obtain in any means I want. They made it free when they put it in my home without my consent, and without my ability to block it. They don't want me to have it? Stop broadcasting it into my house.

      Issues of piracy aside, with RSS feeds, seedboxes, and automated processes I have something much better than cable television. So much better. At worst, it is about a 3-6 hour delay from broadcast television.

    14. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by jd2112 · · Score: 2

      Taping over the camera will work until they introduce an energy saving "feature" that turns off the screen when it doesn't detect anyone watching it.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    15. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      Oh hush. It's very easy.

      50 cent roll of electrical tape. Cut a 3x3cm square using scissors. Place it over the camera aperature.

      1$ bottle of superglue. The watery runny kind that whicks up into paper, and has a long neck applicator. Lay the television temporarily on a soft, cushioned surface face up, say, on the sofa. Into the microphone grill, gently dribble the runny superglue. Leave in this position for 2 to 3 hours for maximal cone set. Return television to the entertainment center, and feel marginally safer.

      The first one is obvious how it works, but the second helps prevent the vibrational movement of the microphone pickup, greatly reducing its sensitivity. Sufficiently glued so that the cone can't move the coil, or the piezo crystal can't be flexed, and you have basically neutered it without opening the system unit.

      These little steps are not hard at all. The hard part is staunchly refusing to buy such an intrusive Little whore of a gadget in the first place, as the powers that be all try like mad to get you to swallow that shit pill, and telescreen sensors become standard features.

      Shit like this is why I refuse to buy stuff like the kinect. While you can unplug the ethernet cable on your console to ensure the thought police and social services don't see you spanking junior on candid camera, (with audio and motion tracking!), the act of buying an obvious spying device and installing it in your home tells fucked up marketing assholes that you want MOAR spying. I don't want to send that message.

      Or... just don't by a Samsung tv maybe? I'm thinking this might be the simpler option.

    16. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by anomaly256 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then start up a new bug-less brand and make a LOT of noise about the fact that /your/ TVs aren't watching your children watch saturday morning cartoons in their underwear and streaming it over the internet. You will rake it in hand over fist

    17. Re:Omnipresent Surveillance by tqk · · Score: 2

      There were no reports Presley hurt anybody with his gun slinging, but he was known to have a fascination with firearms.

      You all know Elvis was American, right?

      MiB said he was an alien and went home. And as far as I'm concerned, Tommy Lee generally makes one hell of a lot more sense than pretty much everything else I've seen recently. For instance, go to Wikipedia and plug in "MiB". It takes you to Mebibyte, which just sucks horribly.

      <moan> ...

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  4. Good luck with that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'd just put duct tape over the lens, or better yet, open the thing up and snip the wires going to the mic and camera(s)
    The warranty would go bye-bye but my privacy doesn't.

    1. Re:Good luck with that by multiben · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe you could buy a different brand? Or is that too easy?

    2. Re:Good luck with that by Idaho · · Score: 2

      So obviously you have something to hide. Doubleplusungood.

      --
      Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
  5. Max Headroom? by hackwrench · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What about Max Headroom?

  6. Reminds me of those School Laptops by cpu6502 · · Score: 5, Informative

    .....which were provided to Pennsylvanian teens, and had integrated cameras, but there was no indication to the users that they were being recorded in their bedrooms (by the government).

    --
    My AC stalker: " I personally agree with your posts most of the time, but that won't keep me from modding you troll"
    1. Re:Reminds me of those School Laptops by MBCook · · Score: 4, Informative

      They were Macs, they had indications. When they were recording, the little green light next to the camera was on.

      The students noticed it. Some of them had reported it, but were told it was nothing and to not worry about it.

      --
      Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
  7. Re:What is the difference between this and xbox? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The webcam on my laptop has an LED light up when powered on. This TV lacks such an indicator.

  8. Re:What is the difference between this and xbox? by philip.paradis · · Score: 5, Informative

    Best of all, there appears to be no physical indication of the mic and camera's status, so consumers have no way of knowing when they're being monitored, or by whom... and if you don't find the idea of a TV that watches you creepy enough, apparently Samsung's Terms of Service include a clause allowing third-party apps to make use of the monitoring system, and use the data gathered for their own purposes.

    Did you somehow manage to miss that part of the summary? It's only most of the summary, after all. In short, there's plenty to see here, only it's third parties doing the seeing, and you apparently don't get any say in when they do the seeing, or what they use the footage for.

    --
    Write failed: Broken pipe
  9. 5 steps to recall by Voyager529 · · Score: 5, Funny

    1.) rig a secondary/tertiary monitor output on a nearby desktop and wire it to the TV's camera/audio input.
    2.) set the computer output to a nonstop 24/7 loop of "Friday" by Rebecca Black, along with a slide show that alternates between Goatse, 2 girls 1 cup, and horse porn.
    3.) bask in the fact that somwhere, someone is regretting the release of this technology.
    4.) Don't EVER cross the wires from step 1.
    5.) Profit.

  10. Footage by rampant+mac · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'll go out on a limb here and say:

    This TV is going to end up capturing so much footage of bored men fapping to porn.

    --
    I like big butts and I cannot lie.
  11. Re:What is the difference between this and xbox? by Dantoo · · Score: 2

    It's simply convergence. Think of the television as a large smartphone. In the near future when you sit down at the Christmas feast you will be able to share with friends and family in far flung places. You'll be able to attend meetings and interact at lectures. You can already do this at your pc? Then you already understand, just think of interacting in the lounge-room rather than the basement. The television is just an oversized monitor now, it's just getting incrementally smarter (and bigger).

    Need to see a doctor or receive post-hospital care at home? Your internet connect television/ip phone allows this to happen in your home. You will be able to plug your auxiliary medical kit into the usb slot and your practitioner will see your vital signs directly.
    It's Jetsons but sadly without the flying car.

    The television has become the focal point of media in the home. Making it the communication device as well is a very simple step in the digital age.

  12. Re:Reality TV ... by xstonedogx · · Score: 2, Funny

    I don't know about you, but I have a TV on my dresser and it gives me a great view from my bed. I know from experience (and from mirrored closet doors) that the view back is pretty god damn fantastic too. Not sure I want most strangers to see all that, though. Just the special ones.

  13. Re:Reality TV ... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

    Rest assured that we don't want to see it either.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  14. Re:Be thankful... by Vectronic · · Score: 2

    I think it would be preferable if they were competing with NSA/CIA/DHS/etc... at least then whatever methods they (Samsung, et al) used to spy on you wouldn't be as useful to the former groups.

    Given most "Smart" TV's have WiFi and/or Bluetooth, it's like Google LivingRoomView, BedroomView, ShitterView... just drive around with the right transceivers, SWAT will probably have access too.

  15. Child porn? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If this thing videos some teenagers screwing, will employees of the company be prosecuted under child porn laws? Will the teenagers be arrested for making child porn?

  16. Re:And? by vux984 · · Score: 2

    It's nothing that hasn't been done before.

    An always on camera in your living room that records everything send the stream to samsung has been done before?

    When? Where?

    If you're so afraid about TVs becoming more advanced, then why not be so scared about cell phones,

    I vaguely recall NSA wiretapping our phone calls was something of an issue for a lot of people...

    game consoles, iPods and the like?

    Because the game consoles and ipods:
    a) have indicators when they are recording
    b) don't stream that data back to the mothership

    Sure they have the -potential- too, but the difference here is that samsung actually -is- streaming the data out.

    Besides it's not like these companies have all of the staff and resources necessary to watch and monitor the thousands to millions of TV users all at once.

    All it takes is one creep set-hopping from living room to living room...

    They don't need to be everywhere at once to be beyond creepy.

  17. Re:What is the difference between this and xbox? by wreakyhavoc · · Score: 2

    Or somehow different than your microphone and webcam featured laptop? iPad anyone? Oh that's right, whenever an App has access to your cam a little light blinks to let you know.

    Whew. Glad that's settled.

  18. Re:Be thankful... by freman · · Score: 2

    Nothing a roll of duct tape couldn't fix.... or a soldering iron.

    Duct tape over the camera and solder the output lines for a cassette deck... err mp3 player... to the mice in on the tv... play porn music on a loop...

  19. The Light of Other Days by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 4, Informative

    A related sci-fi book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Light_of_Other_Days "The Light of Other Days is a 2000 science fiction novel written by Stephen Baxter based on a synopsis by Arthur C. Clarke, which explores the development of wormhole technology to the point where information can be passed instantaneously between points in the space-time continuum. ... The novel examines the philosophical issues that arise from the world's population (increasingly suffering from ecological and political disturbances) being aware that they could be under constant observation by anyone, or that they could observe anyone without their knowledge. ..."

    There are a couple other similar sci-fi stories as well, including one about "Slow Glass" by Bob Shaw with the same name as that novel.
    http://strick.net/blog/041103.html

    And one about a similar time viewer (I forget the name).

    A good thing to keep in mind is, just because we can do something, does not mean we should.
    http://lostechies.com/derickbailey/2009/02/11/solid-development-principles-in-motivational-pictures/
    http://lostechies.com/derickbailey/files/2011/03/SingleResponsibilityPrinciple2_71060858.jpg

    What kind of word do we want to live in, and what kind of world do we want for our children, and children's children, and so on, for seven or more generations?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_generation_sustainability

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  20. Re:It begs the question: by kat_skan · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's like this:

    You watch the TV.
    The TV watches you watching the TV.
    Some ad agency flunky watches the TV watching you watch the TV.
    His monitor watches him watch the TV watching you watch the TV.
    His supervisor watches the monitor watching him watch the TV watching you watch the TV.

    Turtles all the way down.

  21. Re:What is the difference between this and xbox? by icebraining · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But are you sure that LED is not controlled by software (drivers)? Because otherwise, someone with control over the OS could disable that feature and record unannounced, while giving you a false sense of security.

    Paranoia ftw.

    --
    Dilbert RSS feed
  22. DRM by jquirke · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The television has detected more persons in the room than this content is licensed for.

    Please reduce the number of persons in the room, or press the RED button to authorise a payment of a $X per additional person in the room.

  23. Re:Be thankful... by formfeed · · Score: 3, Funny

    Nothing a roll of duct tape couldn't fix.....

    Isn't that true for most things in life?

  24. Re:Be thankful... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

    Not to mention the contemplative souls who think it's their god given right to stop*right* at the top of the escalator, suddenly struck by a compulsive need to understand their role in the universe. Ditto for those thoughtful folks who park their carts in the middle of grocery aisle while they weigh the relative merits of "chunky soup" vs. "minestrone"

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  25. Re:Be thankful... by grantspassalan · · Score: 2

    That won't work, because they will make possession of duct tape a felony.

    --
    A sufficiently advanced simulation is indistinguishable from reality.
  26. Status light? by hantms · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please explain to me why not having an indicator light is significant. The manufacturer controls how the entire thing is built, so it could also easily build in a function to use the camera but without making any status light come on. As I type this the status light of the camera in my Lenovo laptop is off.. But is the camera off, really?

    Bit of a silly article. If you don't like web cams (or any camera) then just say so. Makes no sense to fully trust Logitech but not Samsung or anyone else.

    Encore for the tinfoilers: every iPhone comes with one or two cameras. And you really don't know about the software that runs it.

    Next.